Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » General Topics

Most Effective Pesticide Sprays/Dusts/Chemical Compounds

(23 posts)
  1. killthemall

    junior member
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 40

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Aug 27 2010 12:17:37
    #



    Login to Send PM

    It would be helpful if we could compile a list of pesticides that have been shown to be effective, instead of piecing together random bits of advice from topic to topic.

    There was some chart out there that had the effectiveness of various chemicals out there (Gentrol, for instance, was shown to not have a significant impact on bed bugs). Can someone link me to a source like that?

    This is the question I would like answered by PCOS, experts, or entomologists:

    What are the most effective pesticide brands / chemical compounds on the market today? Are they repellent or non-repellent?

    This is VERY important for me as I need to call the pest control company and if possible have them use one of the more effective compounds. I'm concerned because my PCO has been using Gentrol/Phantom and Gentrol/Bedlam and if there are better compounds out there I want to know.

    I heard aerosol cyfluthrin, deltamethrin, Termidor or Fipronil mentioned as effective ones. PCOs please weigh in?

  2. killthemall

    junior member
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 40

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Aug 27 2010 12:46:59
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Also, whether the pesticide you are mentioning is a residual or contact killer would be very important.

    I'm thinking of making a chart and uploading the info for all to use.

    So to summarize, PCOs and experts PLEASE weigh in on insecticides / pesticides with the following info:

    Product Name, Chemical Compound, Effectiveness rating, Residual or Contact, and Repellent or Non-Repellent?

    Compiling this information for people to use in one place would be VERY helpful to the masses fighting bedbugs. Thanks!

  3. thebedbugresource

    old timer
    Joined: Apr '07
    Posts: 594

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Aug 27 2010 20:08:20
    #



    Login to Send PM

    It is not a function of the product being used, it is a function of how and where it is applied. The skill set of the applicator is the key - not the active ingredients being used.

    While there are reports of pyrethroid resistance showing up with bed bugs I believe it to be over-hyped at this point. It is NOT widespread; but does exist in pockets.

    It is a MAJOR issue if action is not taken now (or better yet before the reports started) to ensure that there are products in the pipeline to be registered for bed bugs that are not pyrethroid based. The hype and hoopla has certainly helped to light some fires and new products have been approved and more are on the way. NONE OF THESE ARE A SILVER BULLET. It will still come down to how and where it is applied.

    Sean

  4. Richard56

    senior member
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 635

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Aug 27 2010 20:34:12
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I'm not a PCO, or an expert, but a PCO on this site did recently recommend "Phantom" and "Temprid". Maybe someone more knowledgeable will expand on these two pesticides. My understanding is that Temprid is not labled for bed bugs in every state. One pesticide in the news lately is "propoxur". Apparently Ohio is petitioning the EPA to allow it to be used for in-home use.

    As to the comment above, i.e. "It is not a function of the product being used, it is a function of how and where it is applied" I have no doubt this is the case., however it's not always easy to find comprehensive "how to's" in terms of applying these pesticides.

    That's understandable because of liability issues as well as the fact that many PCO's probably believe this is something best left to professionals, and therefore don't think it responsible to overly promote certain forms of self-treatment by giving too many details. The problem is however, that some will do it themselves anyway, and often without proper technique. Bit of a Catch 22 here.

  5. thebedbugresource

    old timer
    Joined: Apr '07
    Posts: 594

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Aug 27 2010 22:23:54
    #



    Login to Send PM

    It is not a matter of us professionals not wanting to help ...

    You cannot put into words years of learning on the job. There are proper techniques that are best demonstrated, not written.

    Sean

  6. killthemall

    junior member
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 40

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 5:01:13
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I agree that the upper echelon of PCO service is not something that can just be taught through words, but the average service that you get is nothing special, nothing the average person cannot do if taught the correct method. I know great PCO service can make or break a treatment, but that is a separate topic.

    I guess what I'm interested in is, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL (including application), which pesticides are most effective? Even if there is a marginal difference, this is important to me and many other people.

  7. Richard56

    senior member
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 635

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 8:36:58
    #



    Login to Send PM

    It is not a matter of us professionals not wanting to help ...

    You cannot put into words years of learning on the job. There are proper techniques that are best demonstrated, not written.
    -----------
    Didn't want to infer that it all. The PCO's here have been very generous with their time and information.

    And I agree about the "demonstrated versus written" thing although I do understand "killthemall's" point. And let's face it, some people are just more adapt at do-it-yourself than others. For me -- not one of the most adapt's -- I'd love to see more detailed videos on YouTube, for example, with steps-by-steps. I know some exist, but in many cases they are very incomplete. For example, instead of showing dust actually being applied, the guy just holds up an empty duster and discusses things.

    Do-it-yourself isn't for everyone, but even if we didn't do it ourself, being able to witness a top notch PCO in work (on video) might help us as consumers understand (and monitor) what our local PCO is suggesting and doing. And yes, it's not the chemicals, it's the PCO, but I also agree with Killthemall that knowing what chemicals the good PCO's use (and why) can be at least marginally helpful.

    Richard

    Richard

  8. buggyinsocal

    oldtimer
    Joined: Jun '08
    Posts: 2,431

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 11:20:15
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I also suspect that part of the issue is that which chemical is most effective is going to vary by infestation.

    I mean, okay, slightly wacky parallel, but hang with me.

    In addition to teaching classes at a local university, I also work in a writing center at a local community college. In a writing center, students bring their papers in to get feedback and help from either a tutor or an instructor.

    Many of our tutors are very highly qualified. Many of them are in MA programs or have finished their MAs. Many of them have worked in writing centers before, and a lot of them have taken classes about how to teach writing and/or work in a writing center. Some of them have taught composition classes while they've been graduate students. A lot of them have a lot of subject area knowledge.

    However, those with less expertise than that batch are generally less effective as tutors than those of us who are instructors.

    Why?

    Not because of intelligence and not because of lack of having watched other people do what they're going to do. Not because of lack of enthusiasm.

    What they lack that I have is years of experience. I've been working in writing centers off and on for more than 15 years now.

    I've been teaching in the classroom for longer than that.

    I've seen tens of thousands more papers than they have, so I have a much larger database of material to draw from.

    When a student walks in and plops a paper in front of me, I assess each paper and student combo individually.

    I have to look at the paper and see what it does well and what it does poorly. I have to try to guess how much work actually went into the paper--despite the fact that I wasn't there while it was being written--because the advice I give a student with a weak paper that he or she slaved over is going to be very different than the advice I give a student with a weak paper that he or she cranked out in one hour.

    I also have to assess the personality of the student: is she nervous? is he feeling completely insecure and despairing about his or her writing ability? Or is she a cocky type who thinks the whole class is a waste of time? Is he a student who's focusing on the wrong issues--worrying about grammar when the paper doesn't have a thesis?

    And, what do I know about the student's instructor? Is this a teacher who teaches the modes? who likes the 5 paragraph essay? Or is this teacher one who automatically fails an 5 paragraph essay in this class?

    And I generally have no more than 30 minutes to make those assessments, read the paper, provide feedback, and answer questions.

    So.

    PCOs also have years or decades of professional expertise. While I don't know all the factors that they look at, I'm sure that they have a list just as long as that list even if it's made up of really different criteria than mine.

    Just as me suggesting one revision technique over another is impossible because that answer depends on the student, the paper, the student's writing style, the place in the writing process that the paper is, and a host of other factors, you cannot reduce to a table or grid or even a series of videos all the expertise that PCOs have.

    In addition, there are debates within every professional community. If you doubt that, go check out the thread on detection dogs.

    Or ask a bunch of English teachers about the effectiveness of the whole language approach to teaching.

    So if you surveyed ten PCOs about which chemicals are most effective, you'd likely get a minimum of 12 answers.

    I understand that a lot of individuals want desperately for there to be a basic bed bug protocol. Not just for do it yourself types, but also so that those of us hiring PCOs have some sort of yardstick by which we can measure prospective hires.

    Unfortunately, however, bed bugs are a complicated problem that can't be reduced down to anything quite to clear cut--even on the level of the effectiveness of particular chemical pesticides.

    If it could, bed bugs wouldn't be as hard to get rid of as they are.

  9. killthemall

    junior member
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 40

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 11:43:11
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I don't want to be argumentative, but there is a problem with your analogy. Yes, if someone requires the best service money can buy from a PCO, that kind of skill and expertise can't translate to a chart (and undoubtedly, a lot of the PCOS on this board are in that upper tier of skill level) or sentence.

    BUT, for the folks who either have the option of paying 1000 for an average, run of the mill PCO to service their house, or do it themselves based on the best information they can get for a fraction of the price and similar results, I think that would benefit many people.

    The first PCO i got for bedbugs simply drenched the place in chemicals. Could a PCO like KillerQueen or someone else on this board done a much better job? Yes. Could I feasibly have done the same job as my first PCO for a fraction of the cost? Yes! And that's my point.

    If context is needed when giving a response, thats fine. So:

    Product Name, Chemical Compound, Effectiveness rating, Residual or Contact, and Repellent or Non-Repellent, and Context/Story involved. Like I said, I want to compile this and upload it for all to use.

  10. thebedbugresource

    old timer
    Joined: Apr '07
    Posts: 594

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 14:22:46
    #



    Login to Send PM

    The first PCO i got for bedbugs simply drenched the place in chemicals. Could a PCO like KillerQueen or someone else on this board done a much better job? Yes. Could I feasibly have done the same job as my first PCO for a fraction of the cost? Yes! And that's my point.

    You have just made my point!!! Yes, you could have done exactly what your first PCO did with a list of products recommended by folks on this forum and had the EXACT same results. The problem was not solved. Why? Because it is not a simple as choosing a "good" product. You need the experience on how to apply the product and where to apply it. How to set up a B&G sprayer so that just the right amount is coming out, how to puff a duster with just the right amount of pressure, etc.

    You are missing the point. There is no quick and dirty on how to solve bed bugs ... because there is no such thing. We live in a society that wants things done as fast as possible. We want our food in 2 minutes, we want to wait in lines for less than 2 minutes, we can't sit at a traffic light, we want to become boss in 6 months, the list goes on ... Bed bugs are NOT a pest that a "magic" product can be applied and within hours a problem is solved. It can take two to three treatments spaced weeks apart.

    You can give me any product labeled for bed bugs and I will solve a bed bug problem. I need a vacuum, mattress and box spring encasements (are a big plus but not necessary), a contact killer (steam or aerosol), a liquid residual and a dust.

    I will be thorough, diligent, and invest the proper amount of time needed to solve an issue. That is the expensive part; a proper treatment is labour intensive.

    Do I have some "favourites?" Sure I do, but that does not make them more effective.

    Does Killer Queen use specific products? Probably. Are they the same as what I use? Definitely not; we live in different countries. But the results will be the same ...

    Sean

  11. loubugs

    old timer
    Joined: Mar '07
    Posts: 3,321

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 14:59:30
    #



    Login to Send PM

    http://medent.usyd.edu.au/bedbug/bedbug_cop.htm

    Many products are labeled for bed bug control. Maybe the above reference will help out here.
    Please download Doggett's latest Code of Practice and the last pages have insecticides that are labeled for bed bug control. Publication is Australian so some of these products would not be available or available for bed bug control or available for the general public in the U.S. Also various pesticides may be available in one state in the U.S. for sale to PCO/PMP only or available to the general public. Sean may be able to advise regarding Canadian insecticides for bed bug control.

    Professional entomologist/arachnologist. I consult in all matters dealing with insects and arachnids, including those of natural history and biology to pest management and forensic entomology.
  12. KillerQueen

    oldtimer
    Joined: Mar '08
    Posts: 3,193

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 15:24:19
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I'll jump in because my name is being mentioned here.

    If I told you I could solve somewhere around 70% of my cases without any chemical at all, would you believe me?

  13. Eve

    member
    Joined: Apr '10
    Posts: 296

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 16:43:19
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I believe you. Aside from cases where the "walls are moving", I imagine a large percentage of the cases that PCOs get called on are still quite localized (bed, sofa and environs). An expert inspector who finds the harborages would have no problem dealing with it using steam or a forefinger. The trick is to do the inspection correctly.

    And that is where the problem lies. For many of us who call PCOs we're told immediately that we should pile all our stuff in the middle of the room and then the guy with the spray will douse the perimeters with chemicals. There are some of us who wouldn't mind that practice as much if we had a good idea of how effective those chemicals are and what they mode of action is. If they are good non-repellant residuals then we have the option of arranging our situation so that the bugs have to cross this barrier to get to us.

    And here is where this bulletin board sometimes fails us. We're told "if you have bed bugs, you cannot deal with them yourselves, you have to call a PCO and obey every word they say as if it's gospel." Well, the point Killthemall is trying to make is that the sorts of PCOs that are available to us are often not worth listening to. They don't do much better of an inspection than we do as house-holders. In fact we can do a better job at some tasks because we care whereas the PCO will get his $1000 anyway.

    The only way out of our trap, with the lack of any bed bug certification/licensing that we can consult, is to know almost as much about this situation that we can almost be our own PCO. Then we can evaluate whether the PCO is competent or even knows what a bed bug looks like. I would like to know more about the chemicals, not because I intend to apply them (that would be an ecological disaster in the making) but so that I can answer the PCO's questions in a way that gets him to do the right thing in my particular situation. That's if he even deigns to ask me questions or listen to the answers given the dismissive feelings that PCOs seem to have for us humble householders.

    Eve
    <who has watched the video about stupid householders made by a PCO>

  14. Ratorja

    junior member
    Joined: Jun '10
    Posts: 112

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 17:01:35
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I'm actually a little surprised by the replies in this thread. 13 posts and nobody mentioned a single chemical. We ALL understand that it's about experience/application/technique/etc etc but why is it so hard to talk about which chemicals a PCO finds to be most effective?

    I know I personally would never try to get rid of these things by myself, but heaven forbid if I had to call in someone besides KillerQueen, I'd like to be an informed consumer about what chemicals my PCO would be using and if they are even effective against BBs. I think this information would be VERY useful for people in other places around the country that don't have firms that are experienced in BB control. Not that I think they would try to DIY, but as Eve said, it leads a better discussion with the PCO.

    I'm actually very interested in knowing what chemicals different PCOs use and why, and I'm particularly interested in learning how different chemicals actually kill the buggers - like reproduction inhibitors, dehydration, etc...

  15. Nobugsonme

    your host
    Joined: Mar '07
    Posts: 17,206

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 18:57:45
    #



    Login to Send PM

    There really are a lot of different chemicals and dusts and even within the same country, different pros will use different options.

    I have seen a pro (let's call him pro-A) here say "I really like product X" and then the next thing you know, people are posting in other threads saying, "Help! My pro (pro-B) is using product Y. How do I get him to use product X because that's what pro-A says works."

    Now pro-A never intended to imply this was the only useful product. In fact, you'll see this kind of statement being made even when pro-A and pro-B are using comparable products with similar active chemicals.

    On the other hand, there's the problem when pest pros are insistent that one product is essential, and others are skeptical. The classic is Gentrol IGR (insect growth regulator). Some research shows it may not be what it's cracked up to be. More research is probably needed -- you know how these things go.

    I have heard people saying they were requesting Gentrol because someone said it was a good idea. (I'm not sure I would go down that road myself.) And on the other hand, I have seen people panicking because it was being applied in their homes, which is probably not warranted.

    There are some good resources in the RESOURCES page under Comprehensive Guides. One is the Bed Bug Code of Practice that Lou suggested.

    There are also articles on pesticides under Pesticides on the resources page. There's a link to this Techletter list of pesticides labeled for bed bugs in the US, and it breaks them down by type and also whether they're labeled for mattresses or not. It can be helpful in seeing the range of products and how many options there are.

    (NOTE: this is a resource intended for pros. You need to know more than the names of chemicals in order to apply them safely and effectively. I want to be clear that I am not suggesting you run out and obtain these products and start self-treating.)

    The Pesticides section of the RESOURCES page also has a link to an article about Mike Potter's research comparing effectiveness of Suspend, Kicker, Phantom, Bedlam, and Steri-Fab.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  16. Ratorja

    junior member
    Joined: Jun '10
    Posts: 112

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 20:08:10
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Thanks for the links, nobugs. The Techletter link is a very good starting point for what killthemall is looking for--it lists compounds and whether they are residual or contact.

    I also enjoyed Mike Potter's research, very informative.

    Geez, I feel an evil side of me that wants to know exactly how these things die, it's becoming quite morbid, really...

  17. Eve

    member
    Joined: Apr '10
    Posts: 296

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 20:27:29
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Thanks, Nobugs, for the link. I've added it to my favourites. Again, my intention is not that I'm about to apply these things myself (aside from DE of course). But when my BB PCO info sheet specifies a product, I'd like to at least be able to research active ingredients to give myself extra guidance for my own pre- and post-treatment behaviour.

    Eve

  18. thebedbugresource

    old timer
    Joined: Apr '07
    Posts: 594

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Aug 28 2010 22:45:40
    #



    Login to Send PM

    PMRA Label Search

    Go to that link and at the bottom in the FULL TEXT section type "bedbug" and do a second search typing "bed bug" and do a search.

    This will give you a full list of every product in Canada that is registered for use for bed bugs.

    Sean

  19. spideyjg

    oldtimer
    Joined: Jul '08
    Posts: 3,239

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Aug 29 2010 12:52:22
    #



    Login to Send PM

    nontoxic bedbug remedy - 49 minutes ago  » 
    FREE SAMPLES of 100% NON –TOXIC to all MAMMALS. VA88 KILLS BEDBUGS. FLEAS & TICK on CATS, DOGS & HOME New Bio-Technology act as a food grade protein that uses tap water as its base. Not a Chemical
    This is not hype;

    No doesn't look or sound like hype at all. All caps, grand claims, no not hypey at all.

    Jim

  20. bedbugman

    member
    Joined: Mar '10
    Posts: 170

    offline

    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Aug 29 2010 18:25:26
    #



    Login to Send PM

    i am confident in the products i use and unless its a severe infestation one treatment does the trick. I know lots of other pco's who use different products some have great results and some not so at the end of the day its not what you use but how you use it. The main product i use is available in the US, 'not sure which states' and has a single active ingredient.

  21. orrin123

    newbite
    Joined: May '12
    Posts: 3

    offline

    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri May 4 2012 8:08:40
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I am surprised that no one has actually answered the question!

    Whilst not an expert, i have done some research. Roughly speaking i have tried to order everything thus. From top to bottom the most effective classes of chemicals - From left to right the most effective to least effective chemicals within that class. It is a very rough guide and likely is riddled with errors.

    carbomate insecticides: Propoxur (Baygon or invader) , Bendiocarb (Ficam or turcam), Carbaryl (Sevin) - All these carbomates are reportedly highly effective.

    Organophosphates: Chlorpyrifos (Highly effective) but also Pirimiphos-Methyl and Diazinon (one study shows only medium efficacy for diazinon)

    4th gen synergised synthetic pyrethrins: Any 4th gen synthetic pyrethroid (see below) mixed with a synergising compound such as Piperonyl butoxide. Stingray is a good example.

    4th gen pyrethrins:, Bifenthrin, cypermethrin; deltamethrin/decamethrin; fenpropathrin; flucythrinate; fluvalinate, ?lambda-cyhalothrin? (Deltamax, Alphamax, K-Othrine WG250, Fendona 6SC)

    Imidacloprid??? Delousing agent - maybe relatively safe for human contact??? Seems to have potential and is probably better than the 4th gen pyrethrins?? (Provado Ultimate Bug Killer Spray, for plants). Please be careful with this chemical in the environment - it is desimating bee populations.

    Fipronil??? (little information)??? - Found in flea sprays such as front line

    NB 1. Whilst these have been listed from high to low efficacy they are all very powerful. Note that the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen pyrethrins (most commonly licences for Bed bug control) have not even been included due to their lower efficacy and higher resistance in camparison to the above. Bed bugs are hardy buggers. I used a 1st gen pyrethrin smoker (a bad idea by the way as it just displaces them) right underneath an infestation. They were still alive. by comparison, 4 hours after treatment with my window open for ventilation, a moth flew into my room and died instantly.

    NB 2. Many of the above chemicals should not be used in your home, many have been withdrawn from sale due to safety concerns and very few are actually licensed for amateur bed bug control. However, in australia at least, some (BUT NOT ALL) are used professionally. Bed bugs will not give you cancer but many of the above may. Good effect can be found using mattress protectors, isopropyl alcohol, diatomatious earth and rigourous inspection and cleaning. Use insecticides in a highly targeted manner, even the longer acting ones. Foggers and smokers are probably not a good idea!

  22. orrin123

    newbite
    Joined: May '12
    Posts: 3

    offline

    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri May 4 2012 9:06:15
    #



    Login to Send PM

    hydroprene is very good too. Its probably what the pros are most likely to use

  23. orrin123

    newbite
    Joined: May '12
    Posts: 3

    offline

    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri May 4 2012 10:40:42
    #



    Login to Send PM

    After consideration of what is avaiable in the UK I've decided to employ the following solution to my room

    Steam my mattress thoroughly and place in a mattress protector.
    Lift up carpets and place diatomatious earth around the whole circumference of the room
    Place plastic trays around the feet of my bed. Inside the plastic trays will be bendiocarb powder. Around the trays on the carpet will be diatomatious earth above the trays on the feet will be doublesided carpet tape. The bed will be moved away from the wall.
    The entire bed frame will be sprayed with methoprene
    All undersides of furnature and all cracks and crevices will be sprayed with deltamethrin synergised with Piperonyl butoxide on the assumtion that there are bugs living there and will be resprayed at 2 weekly intervals.
    Vigilant inspection etc...


RSS feed for this topic


Reply

You must log in to post.

201,781 posts in 31,268 topics over 95 months by 13,526 of 14,301 members. Latest: LadyLosingIt14, MelissaTT, scaredofbedbugs520