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ohiodave

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 14 2012 12:11:31
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Hey guys, looking for some insight from someone on here who has prior experience with monitors, specifically the bb alert passives.

I've got no firm reason to suspect bed bugs but was recently visited by a friend who now thinks he might have them at his apartment, so i'm a little concerned. I have the monitor installed on my bed already and Ive been checking it religiously.

Question--how long would it take for the dots/spots/signs on the monitor to show up, if bed bugs had been brought into the apartment? How long would it take the bed bugs to 'find' the monitor, generally? And what if it's just, like, a single bed bug that my friend tracked in? Im just a little confused about what makes them 'know' that the monitor is even there...since it's not giving off some attractant...are they really just searching and searching all over for the best hiding place, and then finding the monitor as a result?

Second: What happens if I do see marks on it? I know I need to dispose of it and everything, and then get a new monitor. If I do all that and then go a certain amount of time with no marks on the replacement monitor, should this mean that I've saved myself from bed bug hell, or is that wishful thinking?

any advice appreciated, really loving this product but sometimes hard to find user experiences/specific directions and so on.
ohiodave

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 14 2012 12:55:22
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Oh and finally found that video on the monitor very helpful. But noticed that it said the monitor should not be in an area that is disturbed often...since i am nervous about this i have been checking the monitor every day. one on my bed (that just requires sliding bed out from wall) and another on underside of my couch (which requires hefting up the couch so i can peer underneath it and see.) I'm hoping that neither of these is 'disruptive' in the sense of scaring away any bugs from using those locations...it's not like i'm shaking or poking at the monitor itself, though what's holding the monitor is moving. Any ideas?
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 14 2012 13:29:40
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Hi ohiodave,

As the inventor and developer of this system I am probably the best to answer your questions.

Question--how long would it take for the dots/spots/signs on the monitor to show up, if bed bugs had been brought into the apartment? How long would it take the bed bugs to 'find' the monitor, generally? And what if it's just, like, a single bed bug that my friend tracked in? Im just a little confused about what makes them 'know' that the monitor is even there...since it's not giving off some attractant...are they really just searching and searching all over for the best hiding place, and then finding the monitor as a result?

This depends a lot of if the Passive was installed prior to bedbugs getting into the location or after a potential exposure event. If installed in advance they effectively present the bedbug with the perfect home which they move into and due to the design they defecate on the detection plate (door step) so you can see that they have visited. In such cases we have detected in commercial and domestic settings in as little as 12 - 72 hours from introduction, in essence this is why being ProActive for bedbugs so becoming essential in modern society as resolving the issue can be as simple as replacing the Passive and checking for any stray bugs.

If the bedbugs are in the home before the Passive is installed you need to wait for them to be active and seeking food in order to find the monitor on the return path to where they used to hang out. Due to the fact that bedbugs only feed every 3 - 7 days this can delay the detection capabilities accordingly.

To be on the safe side I say 2 weeks but in reality 1 week with skin reactions and no signs on the Passive and it is starting to look less likley to be bedbugs and by 2 weeks its almost certainly not bedbugs if you have had more than 20 skin reactions.

The reason why they know they are there is that bedbugs will seek out certain environments to use as harbourages. The materials used in the development where selected because after many years of working exclusively with bedbug cases I found that when certain materials were present bedbugs almost certainly chose them. However that is just 1 of the reasons why they know, some of the other reasons are a but complex and are connected with micro climate sensing which again have been developed through optimisation of the system.

Second: What happens if I do see marks on it? I know I need to dispose of it and everything, and then get a new monitor. If I do all that and then go a certain amount of time with no marks on the replacement monitor, should this mean that I've saved myself from bed bug hell, or is that wishful thinking?

In essence yes it can be that simple, this is what we teach hotels to do and the domestic version is outlined in the document below:

http://www.bed-bugs.co.uk/bedbugstreatmentbypassivemonitorreplacement.html

If you catch the infestation before it takes hold it is a lot easier to deal with, in some cases I have arrived at peoples homes, manually removed the whole colony of bedbugs and left them with an installed monitor to check for any remaining bedbugs.

It works even better if used in conjunction with the other linked document below on room optimisation:

http://www.bed-bugs.co.uk/bedbugsoptimisationoffurniture.html

You can certainly avoid all this unwarranted bagging, treatment of wall cavities and onerous prep sheet protocols that have plagued the industry through a lack of understanding of the issue. In light cases of bedbugs this approach is complete overkill and frankly endorsed by those who don't know any better.

The key issue with avoiding disturbing the monitor is connected with not removing it to check inside or changing its location all the time. I am sure you appreciate that instructions are written to make it as clear as possible but people still ask can you do silly things like move them between rooms every 2 hours to monitor a whole home or will they attract bedbugs into my home from the next street.

You will generally find more feedback on this forum than other places because I tend to be more active here, certainly its not supported too well int he US industry because frankly I refused to pay the marketing support fee that was asked of me by certain individuals in order to get their endorsement. As sad as it is there are those out there only into bedbugs for the money and they frankly don't care how they make it even if that means endorsing rubbish products.

Happy to answer any questions you have though as we have deployed over 10,000 of these around the world and the feedback has only been negative on 1 - 3 occasions that I am aware of.

Hopefully you have dodged the bullet on this occasion though.

Regards,

David Cain
Bed Bugs Limited

In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose my interest int he Passive Monitoring technology as the inventor and patent holder.
ohiodave

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 14 2012 13:44:54
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Wow, thank you, this is fantastic!
I have had the monitors installed for about a month now, so that makes me feel better, definitely they are already in place before this potential issue.

The question about dealing with things if marks are found also makes me feel better. I've read other horror stories and always assumed if I got bed bugs I would have to throw out everything I owned, basically....even things like very sentimental oil paintings hanging near my bed, made by my dad, which would just kill me...Or books, for instance, as well as computer, DVD player, arrrrgh. It seems like with the monitors on the bed they would start 'living' there, and the chances of them being scattered elsewhere (like in those paintings, or books, or entertainment center!) would be fairly slim, right? Idea being that without the monitor you might not know of a problem until it's gotten really bad, in which case you could have bugs ALL over your apartment? Would defintely make me rest easier in worst case scenario.

I'm just confused though by 12-72 hours vs. 1 week or 2 weeks? i guess it's not an exact science. but obviously i'd prefer to know i can trust the lower end of that estimate before i can stop being worried ;).

thanks!!
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 14 2012 13:53:28
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Hi ohiodave,

Yes there are certainly some horror stories out there which one of the down sides to the internet people forget to explain that there a whole world of difference between a small infestation of bedbugs and having it so bad for so long that they get into everything. I can assure you that an initial introduction of bedbugs does not require trashing your life and throwing everything away although dare I say it some people convince themselves they are not doing to feel better about it until they do so. We have even had a lot of cases where people walk away from homes and possessions only to found out later that it was never bedbugs to begin with.

In your case with the Passive installed in advance you can base things on the 12 - 72 hours, the 1 - 2 weeks would only be appropriate if you brought a few bedbugs home before you installed the Passive Monitor.

Hope that helps put your mind to rest.

David
ohiodave

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 14 2012 19:33:06
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this is a thoroughly dumb question, but something i just noticed--the monitor is stuck on the boxspring in the right place, and the bed is mostly against a wall. this is so my cat can't get to it. but now i'm noticing that my cat seems fond of using the upper right side of the boxspring as a sort of unofficial scratch pad...this is not near the monitor but maybe 2 feet away from it. this wouldn't somehow be scaring off any bed bugs from making a home in it, would it? i'm realizing how asinine this is as i type it, but my 'what if' side is getting the best of me.
ohiodave

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 14 2012 19:49:28
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Aaand to make sure I have placement on the couch for monitor correct as well...I applied it based on other posts on this forum.

Basically it is on the end of my couch that I sit on the most. It's on a wood slat at the front side of the couch. So if I were to sit on the couch with my legs touching the floor, it would be roughly where my ankles are, perpendicular to my leg. If that makes sense?? Want to make sure I've got the right equipment ANd have it installed correctly!
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Jun 15 2012 4:01:43
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Hi ohiodave,

No the cats should not affect it.

The sofa install sounds correct, you can always embed an image to be 100% certain.

David
wontbugmywits

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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 16 2012 4:27:04
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Hi David,

If I may also ask a question, your prep sheet says that metal bed frames tend to cause the bugs to disperse...will the passive monitor still follow the 14 day rule with these types of frames?
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 16 2012 5:27:35
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Hi,

With all metal beds if the monitor is installed after bedbugs are present they can take longer to use the Passine because they tend to be more diffused in the room but there is no fixed rule to time.

Although some have said for years metal beds are part of the bedbug solution they are simply not ideal and in my experience should be avoided where possible but not to the extent of replacing for the sake of it. If you have a metal bed work with it, if you are replacing a bed don't go for metal as a solution because it's not.

Hope that makes sense.

David
takecareofit

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 18 2012 15:06:51
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This is a great post. I will be getting a couple of your monitors.
We are away from our home as I type this getting fumigated for bed bugs and I don't want to have a problem like this again.

If you do spot bugs or traces in the monitor, what is the treatment protocol at that early stage?

Does the outside shipping packaging say anything about bed bugs?

Thank you
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 18 2012 15:33:26
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Hi takecareofit,

If you read the third post you will see the links to the protocols I would recommend.

David
takecareofit

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 18 2012 16:21:44
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Thank you

I did go back and re-read the 3rd post.

Am I understanding it correctly that the new passive monitor, replaced when bed bugs were found in the initial passive monitor, will trap any additional stray bugs that weren't caught in the first monitor?

Am I also understanding correctly that any eggs that could have been laid in the 12-72 hours would also be on/in the monitor and are not like to have been deposited elsewhere on the way back to the passive monitor harborage?

Thank you
ohiodave

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 18 2012 16:44:10
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Now I am a bit confused, I was unaware that metal bed frames were a slight no-no.
I had a suspicious skin reaction about 6 days ago. I have passives installed on my bed and couch and they have been there for months, so definitely installed BEFORE any possible new bed bug issue. I was under the impression that now that I've passed the 72 hour threshold I can be a bit more relaxed that it's not BB-related...more so after a full week...and so on. Does the fact that I've got a metal bed frame screw up this calculation, or does that only figure if I had installed my monitors AFTER the bed bugs were (hypothetically) "introduced"??
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 18 2012 16:58:08
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Hi,

In essence yes but in removing the "tripped" Passive you also check and clean the area to remove any straglers before installing the fresh one. If the infestation is caught fast enough, the cleaning detailed enough and the source is not something you continue to get exposed to it will fix it.

The egg issue is all down to how nurturing mother bedbugs are. In order to give newborns the best start in life eggs are preferentially laid close to food. Thus as well as the Passive being the perfect harbourage it is by location the perfect nursery.

Is it has no immobilising glue it is not technically a trap but a true monitor that shows presence through faecal traces on the detection plate. They also avoid bedbug related staining because they deposit on the very device you remove.

It may at first appear to be very simple but in fact it is the product of much observation, testing and sleepless nights. It's very much like a bird box, you want birds in your garden provide food and somewhere to sleep or hang out. It's just in this case you know the nest is occupied because they leave signs on the doorstep.

Hope that helps.

David
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 18 2012 17:00:48
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Hi ohiodave,

You are worrying too much and reading too much into things.

It does happen with people under stress and in particular bedbug stress. Best rememdy less focusing on the issue, I often prescribe walks in the park for some customers.

David
brooklynscott

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 18 2012 17:02:26
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Heh, point well taken. I shall hit the park. But I gather that the 12-72 hour window still applies for me, metal frame or not, since I had previously installed monitors?

With shameful appreciation and a need to quit the internet for a bit,
Ohiodave.
takecareofit

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 18 2012 18:01:03
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Thank you bed-bugscouk

I thank you for all your efforts in understanding bed bug behavior. It is very helpful.
takecareofit

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Posted 12 months ago
Tue Jun 19 2012 20:57:11
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Bed-bugscouk,

I thought of 2 other questions last night that I would like to ask you.

1. If a female bed bug is brought in as a hitchhiker into your house, and if it takes up to 72 hours to take harborage in your passive monitor, could this female hitchhiker deposit eggs elsewhere in my house during these 72 hours?

And these eggs would then hatch and the nymphs will then come find me in the bed within 72 hours and then also take harborage in your passive monitor? And then I would find the nymphs there and subsequently change out the monitor.

2. Is a protective box spring cover recommended with your passive monitor so the bed bugs wont harborage in the box spring instead of your passive monitor?

Thank you very much?
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 12 months ago
Wed Jun 20 2012 9:02:14
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Hi takecareofit,

Female bedbugs bugs are actually very good mothers, they tend to deposit eggs close to food so it is unlikely that an egg would be deposited in a random place in the room. The second factor is that egg development takes a lot of energy so only tends to happen when bedbugs have access to food.

Put the two things together and it means that the most likely location to lay eggs becomes the Passive Monitor itself. I regularly get tripped Passives back from hotels that after postal delays and sitting on my desk have newly hatched nymphs running around the bags they come in.

With regards encasement's its most accurate to say that they may not be needed with Passives as they offer no added benefit. If I were to say to my hotel clients that's X per year for your monitors and 10X for your encasements they would just laugh at me, its hard enough selling a hotel on the need for a solution that costs less than 5 cent per night per bed let alone explaining why they also need a glorified bag to put on the base. Some people use them because they want to reduce potential harbourages but as I have said for a long time show me the added benefit over a simple dust mite encasement (to date despite some attempts the challenge is still open).

Hope that explains.

David
first timer

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Posted 12 months ago
Wed Jun 20 2012 9:30:19
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where can we buy these monitors? I dont have a credit card at the moment, I Live near Toronto is there a company that sells them around here? I have apparently eradicated a possible infestation by having a pco come in and treat my whole house in haste. It would ease my mind momentously to have some of these monitors around my home! I had no confirmation before the treatment so at this point Im not even sure I ever had BB's but something did leave nasty big marks on my son and we havent had any bites or seen any signs since the pco was here....but still
takecareofit

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Posted 12 months ago
Wed Jun 20 2012 10:54:38
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Thank you bed-bugscouk

You really know bedbug behavior!

Last night after posting my questions to you, I read the information on your website about furniture optimization. After reading it, and learning how to cover screw holes with clear tape, and painting in high gloss the slats except the one with the monitor and filling holes with foam, I would have thought that covering the american style boxsprings would be prudent, even if the cover is with a less expensive dustmite covering. Do you know if dust mite coverings work for american style california king size box springs?

Thank you very much
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 12 months ago
Wed Jun 20 2012 11:18:29
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Hi first timer,

There are links in the useful stuff section of the site although in the US or Canada I am not sure how you could do it without a credit card unless someone takes PayPal. I know a few of the good PCO's on the forums now carry them as stock items so they may be able to chime in and help.

Hi takecareofit,

Thanks, it has often made me laugh over the last 5 years of bedbug popularity that most people have not stopped to realise that you study insects by looking at them in their natural environment. In the case of bedbugs that obviously means peoples homes. I did not start my company until after I had already done over 3,000 cases which in my case was enough to start to see the patterns develop more clearly. We have since gone on to study over 22,000 cases which is why we are able to do things in a less "protocol" based way.

I have even seen a few papers of the years where people apply human behaviour to bedbugs which completely contradict what you see in the field as it were. I have to laugh when this happens and then fall back to the old adage "we learn by talking to those with more experience, its why no-one has ever gone from high school to professor without doing a first degree". Sadly that simple logic is lost by the pest management industry and in some cases its the blind leading the mute, deaf and dumb.

Sadly I cant tell you if a dust mite encasement is available for your box base bed as I am out of the loop on US products and it is one of the key differences between UK and US beds. The UK design is a lot harder to deal with because its much deeper, less well made and generally not sealed as well.

I am sure others would be appreciative if you can find a local more cost effective solution though.

David
BedBugMutts

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Posted 12 months ago
Thu Jun 21 2012 15:26:52
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first timer - did you find an outlet for the BB Alert Passives? I sent you a PM. Ken Hando
wontbugmywits

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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Jun 28 2012 1:45:56
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Hi David,

Just another question...I know you've answered it before but I couldn't find the answer. I have monitors on the beds in my home where the rooms are occupied. But what about couches? We have two couches and a one-seater in our family room. Do I need to place passives on all them or can I just place one in the room? Thanks for your help, it is always appreciated.
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Jun 28 2012 5:48:09
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Hi wontbugmywits,

You don't need to but its a cost effective way to deal with an infestation and could result in you identifying the issue long before you need to do anything drastic like throwing things out. If you think of the cost of monitoring versus the cost of replacing you will have a good idea where to use them.

If you do install on a couch or sofa generally the best place is under the front edge near the backs of the legs of the most occupied seat. If you had a couch and a chair but the chair was rarely used it does not need monitoring but if it is sat in on a regular basis or used by guests to the house then its better to be safe than sorry.

At the end of the day its all about dealing with the issue at early stages so you are not as impacted by it and it does not take months to resolve, a small investment as it were.

David
bedbughomework

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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Jun 28 2012 9:50:48
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This is a very interesting post and I have one more question.

It has been said that you should not use climb ups and a passive at the same time. Right now I do have both on our bed. My thinking was.... Any bugs that are not on the bed or in the frame will fall into the climb up when they are trying to get to a source and any bugs that are somewhere in the frame or on the bed will find the passive.

I know this way of thinking is not correct but I'm not sure why. Perhaps you could explain it to me.

Thank you
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Jun 28 2012 10:12:56
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Hi bedbughomework,

I have written extensively on the subject of bed isolation strategies in the past one of the most extensive posts reads:

I often get some flack for not towing the party line in terms of isolating and encasing beds. The main reason for this is an observation that if you all bedbugs to behave as naturally as possible they are a lot easier to deal with.

If you don't force them to live away from the bed they they will live on or close to the bed the treatment process is a lot easier for both you and the client you are working on behalf of. I believe this simple fact accounts for maybe a 2 - 4 week reduction in the duration of the infestations we deal with in the UK compared to what we see from other companies.

With regards mattress encasement I am get to be convinced that treating it with a chemical is more efficacious than manual removal and then encasing if that is the path you are going down. To treat a mattress and then encase it just shows a woeful lack of understanding as to what you are doing. If the encasement work then it will contain the issue and thus it does not need treating.

The logic is actually quite simple once you have seen enough cases to be able to extrapolate the data and draw solid conclusions.

The two products have different modes of action, one tries to keep you from getting bitten and requires re-talcing every 2 weeks to be effect. The other relies upon the "normal" behaviour of bedbugs to identify an infestation quickly and by providing a harbourage you can also remove them.

There is nothing to say you cant use them both but it will reduce the efficiency of the Passive Monitor to do so.

Hope that explains.

David
wontbugmywits

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Posted 11 months ago
Mon Jul 2 2012 21:08:14
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David,

Thank you for the advice. I have ordered passives for my couch and a chair I have in my living room. I was wondering if you could explain how the passives work on furniture other than a bed. I spend a couple hours each night on my couch watching TV, eating dinner, talking with family etc. If there are bed bugs harboring in the couch, what would it take for them to find the monitor? Will they attempt to feed on me and then move towards the bottom of the couch? Does a food source have to be nearby for the bugs to become "active" on the couch? Or will they move around in the area even if a food source is not present?

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