Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Tools/ideas for fighting bed bugs
medication already on the market
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meremortal
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Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 10:02:58
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Just a thought...does anyone know if research is being done to evaluate any effects existing medications/herbal supplements (approved for use in humans, of course) may have on bedbugs? For example, if I knew that taking glucosamine would help my knee heal AND cause the bedbugs that were biting me to grow shells so thick they could no longer move (yay!), then I would certainly consider that as another tool in the battle. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but if you don't ask you won't find out! I'm sure drug companies would be interested in any research on this topic, as their sales would skyrocket if it was found that one of their products helped. Even if a brand new pesticide was developed (and worked!), think about how long it would take to get approved. Maybe we should be concurrently looking at what's already out there.
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I think this is the most promising route, too. It's been brought up before on the forums, but I don't know that there's any active research taking place -- maybe Lou Sorkin or someone else can weigh in. If you look at flea medication like Frontline, it doesn't seem totally out there to imagine we could invent something that would be harmless to us but poison them when they bite. And that would certainly be a lot more reliable than applying chemicals to the environment.
I don't think any existing products have much effect... some forum users have had limited success with herbal remedies, but the effect varies from person to person and I'm not convinced it wasn't just coincidental.
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MyWorstFear
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Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 13:44:41
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Considering how long it takes the FDA to approve a new drug, it'll be way too many years before anything is available. With all the drugs they eventually pull off the market when they've been road tested for several years, are you sure you'd want to take such a drug?
Will bed bugs bite animals? Or do bed bugs only survive on human blood? D@mn vampires!!!! -
meremortal
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Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 19:01:46
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wirehead: Thank you for the reply. I was hoping researchers would be looking at something that's already approved for humans and has already been used for years. I've contacted a number of prominent researchers regarding both human and pet (for protection of the pet) medications, and received either no response or a negative one. I think they misunderstood what I was asking!
MyWorstFear: I agree with your comment. I would never take a "new" drug that hasn't been tested! Am not signing up for the new H1N1 vaccine for a number of reasons (including that I think others would benefit more than myself and do not want the supply to dwindle).
Based on my 2 cats, they've shown the same response as me and my boyfriend. One reacts and the other does not. They were both on Revolution (Selamectin) for about 6 months, and are now on Advantage Multi. I'm making some observations regarding the BB related effects of the two medications.
One cat was originally reacting so badly that she was pulling out most of her fur, which I initially attributed to stress, but later realized that she is an OCD groomer and have found bites on her exposed skin. The other cat couldn't care less, although she was never really an avid groomer (and still has no qualms about jumping onto my lap, farting, then running to the other end of the couch :) ) So, I would say that pets may or may not be a food source and/or reactive. Which doesn't really answer your question. Although, from working with a number of domesticated (and feral) pets over the years, I must say that most cats are quick to sense and remove fleas and other offending pests efficiently.
Hopefully, some research will be done in the near future to determine which existing (and approved) flea (and other) medications are effective on bedbugs, if not only to prevent pets from being bitten in the first place, but also, and secondarily from becoming an alternate food source and potential propagator of an infestation.
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cilecto
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Joined: Aug '08
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Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 19:17:27
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How about an innocuous substance that people could ingest or apply, that would enter BBs׳ bodies and could be detected by machines and lead PCOs to high concentrations of it (the harborages)?
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cilecto
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Posts: 513
Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 19:18:10
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…like the exploding dye pack the banks throw into the money bag in the movies?
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meremortal
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Posts: 41
Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 20:02:54
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Not quite what I was getting at, Cilecto, but thanks for the sarcasm and/or attempt at humour ;)
If you are referring to radioactive dye tracers, then yes, I had considered that. However, there are a number of reasons why that would not be feasible. I am not an entomologist (please, PCO's do not attack me for my spelling, it is late on Friday night and I do admit you are probably more edumacationalized than myself). My mother has Hashimoto's thyroiditis, so I've also been through all of the tests (and am aware of the numerous appointments, health professionals involved, etc.). The financial burden on society for all of the related testing for bb purposes, etc. would not be acceptable.
Although, the financial and environmental burden that are resulting from our current societal situation based on a mass (ie. global) infestation is growing. What if we analyzed the cost/benefit of blindly banning all pesticides (as my current municipality is attempting to do) associated with the global impact of mass furniture tossing, giant ziploc bag use (and disposal), and endless vacuuming/washer/dryer loads (not to mention vikane and thermal treatments)? I've witnessed many a "hippie" turn "let's toss all of this crap and get the heck out of here" since I became aware of bb's. How is this good for our planet and/or resulting in any kind of solution?
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Hi,
OK I will wade in on this one a little while I am stuck at the airport. You have a number of issues here, yes new active ingredients for pesticides take time to get through test and onto the market, its about 7 or 8 years. New drugs for humans also take time, between 9 and 11 years.
Thus it is actually faster to get a new active ingredient on the market and into the hands of pest controllers than it is to get a new drug out there.
Now I appreciate that people see flea spot on treatments as an ideal for bed bugs but the reality is that they are very different creatures and have different habits. There is also the reality that if well done bed bug control should deal with the vast majority of samples before you get back into the room to sleep so either having a topical treatment for humans or a tracking system to locate them should in reality not be required. The reality of this job at the level that some of us work is that its not finding the masses of bed bugs its finding the odd one or two and in particular the nymphs.
I suspect if you give it a year or two more you may be hiring your PCO based on what access they have to advanced tools and technologies as well as their experience of dealing with cases. Yes I have an idea as to what some of these new tools will be but with some of them I am still saving pennies to invest and test them so you may have to wait for those results.
Although I know its a nice idea topical treatments the reality is its not actually as good as doing the job right the first time.
David Cain
Bed Bugs Limited -
cilecto
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Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 513
Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 20:59:38
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Mortal. I was not being sarcastic. I was brainstorming, with tracking as a goal and no preconceived notion of what the substance is. Perhaps it would need to be discovered or invented. Perhaps machines can be developed that could do what the good dogs do, without the need to maintain and reward.
David. In a year or two, most of us will be contending with the PCO the landlord sends. From what I read here, they need all the help they can get.
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meremortal
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Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 41
Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 21:21:43
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David: as I'm sure you're aware, advantage multi and selamectin ( fleas, heartworm, hookworms, roundworms, and ear mites) do cover a number of parasites. With the timelines you've given, it looks like we should indeed be looking at existing (approved) medications with existing (approved) and NEW (or old) active ingredients!
Now, how to find the stragglers re: bedbug infestation... Maybe some sort of tracer would work...dare I suggest nanotechnology?
Cilecto: Apologies for my oversensitivity :) I have been following the forums since their inception with a nagging hesitancy to post...frankly I was fearful of being attacked outside of my bb infestation. Tracking the little bb's would indeed be useful in more ways than I could imagine. Any references to existing/future research?
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Hi Cilecto,
Fear not we are working on the ABC guide to bed bugs or as we would call it in the UK Janet and John do bed bugs.
The problem then will however be how to make sure they can read and follow it to the letter and that they understand how to join to dots to get the results.
This job can be a lot more complex than people give it credit for especially if you want to get top results quickly. I am serious when i said I did not start to work it all out until I had done over 3,000 cases and I can also confirm I am still learning after over 13,000 cases. Its less of a steep learning curve it its still uphill.
David
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watkinsnewan
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Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 331
Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 21:33:26
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interesting reading !!
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Hi Meremortal,
Now don't get me started on nanotechnology. It was the new big buzz just before I left the biotechnology sector and if you would have followed the companies talking about it by now we should have had cures for:
- all forms of cancer - munched to death by nano machines
- all blood borne pathogens - attacked as they flowed through the body by centurion droids
- all impurities from the blood and body removed - nano refuse collectors would recycle all impurities into nutritious compounds
Sorry call me a middle aged cynic but you will have more luck looking for new uses of existing technologies, especially if you don't want them to cost the earth in one way or the other.
I am however hoping to test a new organic attractant when I get back from LV that should be capable of assisting with the rogue ones but sadly to claim an attractant you also need to go through regulatory approval and we are back on the slow train again.
David
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meremortal - 4 hours ago »
I have been following the forums since their inception with a nagging hesitancy to post...frankly I was fearful of being attacked outside of my bb infestation. Tracking the little bb's would indeed be useful in more ways than I could imagine. Any references to existing/future research?This is going a bit off-topic, but since I am the admin and deal with every last one of them, most of the flare-ups -- which I think are fairly rare, and no more common than on other "normal" forums -- center around a few issues (recommending people undertake forms of treatment which are potentially hazardous, pointless, etc.; promoting one theory or school or brand of bed bug dog over another; the rare troll who comes in to cause mischief, etc.).
For the most part, I think we get along pretty well here and I really hope that's your experience too!
I hope you now feel welcomed and not hesitant about posting.
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meremortal
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Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 41
Posted 4 weeks ago
Sat Oct 24 2009 8:03:46
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Nobugs: I do feel more confident about posting now that I have read the forums for quite some time. It just took awhile to get an idea of who's who, etc. You've done a great job of putting out the "fires" that do arise from time to time on here. Thank you :)
David: Very interesting...an organic attractant would be extremely useful (especially in my case where we're dealing with a few stragglers-or so we hope)! I know that aggregate pheromones are also being looked into. Would an attractant still work in the presence of alarm pheromones?
Cilecto: As far as tracking our little friends, I had originally thought of medical isotopes before remembering there was recently a global shortage due to a reactor being shut down. So I guess that's out of the picture for now :( Your idea of a sort of machine is interesting. Any more specific thoughts/inspiration on tracking?
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Hi Meremortal,
At this stage the attractant we are about to test has been derived through field observation only so we really don't have accurate way of predicting how it will work in a tank test let alone a real environment. I mention it because I feel it is important for people to know we are not sitting on our laurels and that things are being progressed.
The main issue with an attractant however is that it will be regulatory approval for professional or amateur use. This process could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and could take years to achieve. Once we have data on the tests which are scheduled for November we will have to check with the legal team to see if it is unique and then if it can be protected from abuse. To cut a long story short its not likely to be of help to those with a problem today or for that matter 2010 or 2011 but hopefully it will one day become another tool for our arsenal.
I have watched the development of the pheromone though and can only conclude that unless they find a method of large scale bio synthesis or fermentation it is not likely to be economically viable. If you look at the running costs of the plug in active monitors (actually traps) you will see that the aromatic compounds used as attractants are the greatest cost proportion.
I would however say that the best solution will always be communication of the issue so that others can avoid getting infected in the first place, after all spreading the word is highly cost effective.
David
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bitebedbugsback
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Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 32
Posted 2 weeks ago
Tue Nov 3 2009 14:09:09
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This very well could be a shot in the dark -- I'm not a scientist -- but it would be interesting to have a study where people on different medications were exposed to a limited number of bed bugs (even 1?) nightly in a controlled environment, and watched how it affected the bugs, if at all.
There are so many medications it would probably take a very, very long time; and who knows where funding would come from, let alone scientists who were interested (if it's a feasible study to even begin with), but it'd be interesting.
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Good luck getting it past the ethics committee because that is the major stumbling block not the money or the researchers.
The second hurdle is of course meaningful
victimsvolunteers who are not part of a biased or subjective group.Sorry but on this one grey matter is better focused on practical issues rather that pipe dreams.
David
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meremortal
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Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 41
Posted 2 weeks ago
Wed Nov 4 2009 11:50:08
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David, I think bitebedbugs back was referring to people that were already on said medications for one reason or another. My opinion is that if we can find people to do research, we should let them do the research! Whether it be a "pipe dream" or a "practical issue"...if we have the manpower, then why not do both?
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