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Malathion

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  1. lieutenantdan

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Dec 22 2009 18:26:00
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    Hi all,
    It has been a while how are you nobugsonme?

    I have recently spoke to someone who brought Malathion from Guyana to North America
    to use to kill a bed bug infestation in their house, it worked with great success I was told. One application and bed bugs gone. I welcome your comments.

    I have found a page from this site.
    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/russian-pco-said-malathion-carbophos-mercaptothion
    Apparently other countries have Malathion available to use.

  2. MyWorstFear

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Dec 22 2009 19:37:13
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    Malathion sounds familiar to me from a long time ago. I think my father used to use it outside for garden pests but I am not positive. Had it been retired from the US market? Can it be used inside? I'm curious.

  3. bitten123

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Dec 22 2009 19:58:40
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    Hey Lieutentdan, good to see you back here!

    I can tell you one thing about Malathion, that stuff STINKS (literally smells strong). I remember it being sprayed in the horse barns and it made me so dizzy and neausous, had to keep the horses out for weeks. I remember it made one horse wobbly for days. I think it must affect the neurological system. There is my knowledge of it, but it smells bad and makes you feel awful.

  4. cilecto

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Dec 22 2009 22:01:20
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    IIRC, it was commonly used decades ago. Probably banned. Interesting to bring up the "Mercapto"-thion generic name. IAFAIK, when you smell "gas", you're actually smelling mercaptan that's added so that you can detect it. Some people have commented that Malathion smells like mercaptan.

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  5. Adele

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Dec 22 2009 22:03:08
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    i think it was banned here....

  6. bait

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Dec 22 2009 23:19:27
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    Maybe 10 or so years back Giuliani ordered the City blanketed with malathion in his attempt to stop the spread of West Nile Virus. He had helicoptors or was it small planes spraying tree tops.

    It caused a big furor, lawsuits, environmental outcry, bird-kill, stuff like that. Malathion was eventually deemed more dangerous than WNV. And it didn't work. WNV spread coast to coast.

    Thanks for the post dan, but I can't form an opinion on one story. There have been people who got rid of their BBs with a fly swatter; another with alcohol and double stick tape.

  7. cilecto

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Dec 23 2009 7:06:49
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    Bait. Are you sure that Giuliani was using Malation? (I have this mental image of him personally flying the chopper and smirking.) I recall a similar furor way back in CA over Jerry Brown spraying fir Mediterranean Fruit Fly.

  8. spideyjg

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Dec 23 2009 10:54:32
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    It is an agricultural pesticide and not something labeled for indoor use. In agricultural use workers must stay out of the fields for 12 hours after application.

    For home gardening it is sprayed with a dilution of 5 oz of a 57% concentrate in a gallon of water.

    Poisoning a home with improper pesticide use is not a viable option for BB control.

    Jim

  9. buggyinsocal

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Dec 23 2009 14:06:57
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    Wikipedia confirms what I already knew about malathion:

    1. it's an outdoor only pesticide in the organophosphate category.

    2. It's likely what was sprayed where I grew up (swamp ville) for mosquito control.

    3. It itself has relatively low toxicity, but it breaks down into another chemical that is very toxic to humans.

    It's not a solution for bed bugs. There are plenty of other safer and more widely available treatments for bed bugs than malathion. Remember, kids, organophosphate poisoning isn't something you want to mess with on your own.

  10. bait

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Dec 23 2009 23:43:42
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    For Cilecto and other interested parties:

    http://www.clearwater.org/news/nospray.html

    There's probably a zillion articles online, but this came up first.

  11. cilecto

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu Dec 24 2009 8:09:02
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    bait - 8 hours ago  » 
    For Cilecto and other interested parties:
    http://www.clearwater.org/news/nospray.html
    There's probably a zillion articles online, but this came up first.

    Thanks. So NYC did use Malathion in 99. Now I wonder if the wholesale spraying of cities in 99 and 00 somehow also upset the ecosystem enabling BB propagation.

    All that said, the article is a wee bit disingenuous when it announces "…there have been no human fatalities in the US from West Nile encephalitis apart from eight people in New York in the last two years."

  12. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Dec 26 2009 19:16:43
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    Ahh" I love the smell of malathion in the morning" Yes as stated above Malathion is still registered in NY for exterior AG use and is used less and less. In 99 NYC did resort to Malathion early on in response to what turned out to be WNV but was originally suspected as being Eastern Equine or perhaps even SLE, which would have significantly increased the original mortality rate. It was subsequently replaced with Anvil and other synthetics. As far as upsetting the bed bug ecosystem no known predators are known and hence would not be effected and since that time certainly would have bounced back to noticeable levels given the amount of food.

  13. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Dec 26 2009 21:46:02
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    Ariel spraying was performed during the summer of 1997 in Florida to combat Medflies. It was sprayed over occupied areas from planes and helicopters.

    Here is a link http://news.ifas.ufl.edu/1997/06/30/uf-experts-say-fear-unwarranted-but-treat-malathion-with-respect/

    I am not a toxicologist, but I can tell you that organophospate based agents are toxic for humans... essentially nerve agents... particularly toxic if used with synergist chemicals that suppress the bodies ability to break it down...

    We were trained in Paramedic school to administer Atropine... Typically we would be treating farm workers that returned to the field too early or were accidentally sprayed in the field.

    Even if I thought it was effective to eradicate bed bugs, I think the legal liability would be a nightmare... I suspect the headlines would read that the house had been rendered uninhabitable due to an application of toxic outdoor pesticides... It would be an environmental kiss of death from a real estate value point of view...

    The only way to remediate the structure would be to remove any materials that had been contacted by the pesticide... Very expensive to put that genie back in the bottle once it is out.

    I always appreciate your out of the box thinking, but I doubt that Malathion will be approved for indoor use anytime soon.

    It is good to hear from you... Happy Holidays

  14. lieutenantdan

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Jan 5 2010 15:15:02
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    Apparently here in the USA we have had a surge in pesticide awareness and I believe that started back in the time of R. Carson, Rachel Carson's Silent Spring. I am no expert but I cannot help to wonder that due to America's trends and trendy America we do not at times tend to take things to an extreme. I have recently discovered another extreme and that is with the MMR vaccine where the vaccine recently had been blamed for causing autism in children, this speculation has now considered to have been proven false.
    After having the unfortunate experience of fighting the war with bed bugs I would have gladly used a little Malathion as a weapon if it would have shortened my war. It is all a bit of a trade off.
    A possibility of a little nerve damage due to Malathion or nerve damage due to fighting the war with bows and arrows for too long of time.
    These people that I had talked about that used Malathion seem very well and these people are
    also intelligent may I say and apparently have beaten bed bugs in one spray.
    Go figure.
    tomato, tomahto

  15. itchy1

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 28 2011 19:01:31
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    There is a form of malathion made for indoor use on house plants that does not have that offensive odor and I have ordered it for a bit of an experiment. New to the whole bed bug experience here and have no $ for a pro, so I am debating trying this stuff. Thankfully there are no kids in the home to worry about, so I feel if I am careful and act with some sense it might just solve the problem with these sneaky lil nightmares. Desperation and lack of funds will cause folks to try anything. I do not advocate anyone else doing this. As for safe insecticides, I don't think there are many that are 100% safe. The research I have done on malathion, it does not seem to be more dangerous that alot of the stuff you can get on the market. on

  16. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 28 2011 19:27:45
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    itchy1 - 22 minutes ago  » 
    There is a form of malathion made for indoor use on house plants that does not have that offensive odor and I have ordered it for a bit of an experiment. New to the whole bed bug experience here and have no $ for a pro, so I am debating trying this stuff.

    I understand the desperation, but I think that this is a very bad idea.

    There are lots of things which work against bed bugs. If you must self-treat, steam, dusts like DE, and sprays can be used safely and effectively, the key is to do your research first. The Comprehensive Guides in our Resources page are a good start.

    I would strongly advise against off-label and illegal pesticide use.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  17. itchy1

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Mar 2 2011 18:46:19
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    I did start out with the vaccum cleaner, permethrin spray, and DE. It may have limited them a bit but I am still getting eaten. Bites now vary from very tiny red dots (nymphs?) to large bumps with a deep scab (breeding adult?). I hunted the source for 3 days and finally found 4 shed skins in one border seam of my pillowtop mattress. I have yet to see a live one and I dont think my eyes are good enough to see a nymph. Sitting on the couch the other nite I felt a bite on my hand and looked and there was nothing there but a little red dot. I assume it had already fed and left and what I felt was like a "delayed" effect of the bite once the nerve woke up. These are some sneaky lil critters. So now I know that they are on the couch in my den as well as my bedroom. My wife has yet to be bitten. I moved her to the guest bedroom.. put some sticky tape on the legs of that bed (might slow em down) as well as tried applying a barrier of DE thru that room. Just trying to keep them off my wife while I do battle with em, but reading has told me they will find her and that bed sooner or later, hence the interest in the non-approved substances like Sevin or Malathion, that seem to be a one shot fix. I know given a small window of time the adults will breed like crazy and occupy every room. The other option that I thought of I could try as a DIY is heat. I considered renting a "salamander" heater like is used in construction... bringing the interior of the house warm as I can with its heating system then switching the salamander on in the basement area since heat rises. Whether that would generate enough heat to bring the house to 140 degrees I don't know.. just a theory I just know them suckers can heat a cold space to a balmy 80 degrees in winter. O well, yall wish me luck..

  18. cilecto

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Mar 2 2011 22:15:54
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    Itchy1. Scientists tell us that a BB's life stage does not bear on the type of bite reaction. So, your large/small "bites" can be happening for many reasons, many, if not most, of which are not due to BB. In fact, you might be reacting to the things you've applied in the home. And if you have found "shells" in your couch, make sure (from comparison to a reliable picture of cast skins, like this one http://www.bedbugscincinnati.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/bed_bugs2.jpg , the shell is on the right) that it's really bed bug cast skins, not something else, be it carpet beetle larvae, or spider beetles or popcorn husks. Then read a comprehensive guide to bed bugs, like the State of Michigan Guide http://www.michigan.gov/documents/emergingdiseases/Bed_Bug_Manual_v1_full_reduce_326605_7.pdf and understand what it really takes to control them. Also, read this site's FAQ, which tells you some basic things to do and not to do (like shuttle your wife around the house).

    While Malathion can probably eradicate bed bugs, abusing it may hurt you, and your wife, worse than bed bugs can. It would be a shame to risk this, especially if you are not 100% that you have a bed bug infestation and you have not exhausted safer means. (I'm going to avoid the legal issues on this tonight, I just don't have the energy.)

    There are pros who do thermal every day. They work with multiple heat sources, fans, sensors and safety equipment. They can do this with confidence that they are solving your bed bug problem, not driving the bugs deeper into your stuff and not burning down your house. Please do not consider doing whole house heat yourself.

  19. cilecto

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Mar 2 2011 23:23:50
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    Last word, Itchy. Do not start to consider anything until you've read a comprehensive guide, like the State of Michigan or Stephen Doggett's and you've correctly applied the less risky approaches. If you haven't read the guides and don't understand the bare basics, you should not be doing anything on your own.

  20. itchy1

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 1:35:27
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    Thanks for the advice all. I assure you I am positive it is bedbugs. Cant get that PDF to load, but the pics are dead on thanks.. actually I already checked sites and identified the skins already. Also, blood spots on the sheets and large blood stains inside my pillow near a fold in the zipper area sealed the deal that is isnt dust mites. I have for weeks read up on these critters so that is not the only info out there. Understand I just moved the wife and kept my same sleeping area to provide them heat and carbon dioxide and BLOOD so they dont have to move to eat and breed. I tore down the bed weeks ago and did the vaccum/ DE application in all the crevices and joints in the wood. This was a huge waterbed frame built with a small forest full of wood with a regular mattress so you can imagine the job that was. Sprayed to contact kill... brushed to remove eggs, washed and dried all bed linens, searched mattress, vaccumed floors and all around carpet edges...and more I dont have time to type. That very night I was supper again. I am getting bit, not having reactions from chemicals in the meth lab (joke) or from releasing WMDs. True, the heat method is untested doing it this way... but it is an option to try. Doing construction for 30 years I have handled this kind of equipment before. Theory has it that heating by convection it would start heating the floor and the heat would rise. Thermometers at every window where I could view from outside would do the montoring for me. One hella lot cheaper than hiring a pro with a 50,000 buck unit. Again that is just a theory and I guess wouldnt get the EPA excited. Properly monitored it would not catch the house on fire (but if it did the bedbugs would die ) so the worst case I could either not reach the temp I need...hence losing 10 bucks in fuel and maybe not wipe em all out or the house would burn the insurance would probably rebuild my home.. bug free ) Again... its just a theory that might be an option.
    I have looked all thru the ads for the bed bug kits.... well overpriced (folks are getting gouged) and most seem to have marginal success. Heck even the pros can charge 3000 or better and that can be tossing $ in the wind. Moot point because I dont have 3000. Bottom line, it is time for the powers that be and authorities on this little menace to come up with a viable working alternative that doesnt cost the average person out there an arm and a leg to get rid of these vermin.. but with all the R&D it might be a while off. Heck if IGRs really worked it would be the anwer, but I have read that they dont work either and they are really costly too.
    O, and another update on malithion. (tempted to refer to it as the "M" word..... you can soak your kids head in it.. wrap his head in a towel while its wet..and have em go to bed while it soaks in and kills head lice.. (government approved I might ad). Seems kind of contradictory there but it is a point to ponder.
    Again guys, thanks for the input on this subject and the kind advice and hope you all have a great weekend.

  21. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 2:14:00
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    People have burned their homes down trying to do their own thermal. No one can stop you from carrying out your plan but I would caution anyone against trying to emulate it.

    As for Malathion, spraying it in your home is illegal.

    It is legal for specific types of outdoor use only. (See the EPA's bulky PDF which explains the chemical's registration and legal uses.) The NJ DEP just fined a PCO nearly a million dollars for using it to treat bed bugs indoors. That's also a point to ponder.

    Yes, it is also approved for pharmaceutical use for head lice as regulared by the FDA, but this does not mean you're dipping your kid's heat in the stuff you obtained.

    And that it is legal for a controlled application using a pharmaceutical formulation of the chemical does not make any use you like, or any formulation you like, legal. And it does not make it smart.

  22. itchy1

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 13:45:47
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    Agreed, the stuff I have obtained is not the same as the lice treatment sold at your local pharmacy, but it is the same pesticide in it and at the same concentration recomended for application for laying hens , poultry houses, and aviaries. I was surprised to see you can also dip the hens in it soaking them good to kill other parasites that live on the birds, with no apparent harm to them. Keep in mind I have yet to take that step but once the "affordable" options run out, if I am still getting bit I will be sorely tempted to try it, at least in the main bedroom...illegal or not. The problems with most any pesticide, including the ones I have mentioned seem to come from ingestion and dermal contact and this could be avoided easily enough, at least for the viability period.
    Quick question here Mr Nobugs... are you a PCO, or are you someone that has done persona battle with these sneaky little critters? If so, what did you use, how long did it take before they were totally eradicated?
    And let me repeat this... I seriously appreciate your input as well as your concern. You seem like a straight up guy. And thanks to everyone on this board that has offered their advice.

  23. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 16:04:11
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    itchy1 - 2 hours ago  » 
    Keep in mind I have yet to take that step but once the "affordable" options run out, if I am still getting bit I will be sorely tempted to try it, at least in the main bedroom...illegal or not. The problems with most any pesticide, including the ones I have mentioned seem to come from ingestion and dermal contact and this could be avoided easily enough, at least for the viability period.

    Hi Itchy1,

    I appreciate the tenor of your comments.

    No one can keep you from doing something you're determined to do, but I would caution anyone else against emulating you.

    Also note, I know of at least one case in which federal agents appeared at the home of someone who used illegal pesticides to treat bed bugs -- albeit not the same one you're using. I can't go into details at this time, though I hope to share more in future.

    Quick question here Mr Nobugs... are you a PCO, or are you someone that has done persona battle with these sneaky little critters? If so, what did you use, how long did it take before they were totally eradicated?

    Thanks -- I'm female, but don't worry, most people think I'm a fellow.

    I am not a PCO, but started this website because when I had bed bugs, there was a lot of crap information on the internets, and not much good info., even from reputable sources.

    I don't go much into detail on my experience because:

    (a) It was so long ago now that the options for treatment now are so much better, regardless of one's budget. We have more options for heat and Vikane on the high end. On the low end, we did not know much about steam back then, and it was not as popular with PCOs as first step before sprays and dusts. And, of course, PCOs are way more knowledgeable now than they were back then. Add in the fact that the only monitors back then were glue traps (so good luck trying to prove you have them, or determine if they're gone), and there was nothing like a Packtite available, things are very much more manageable today, in my opinion. My own experience would not be very instructive in light of all this.

    And (b) as I have peppered this site with minor details of my life over the years, it has gotten increasingly difficult to maintain my anonymity, which is necessary for reasons related to my non-pest-related career. So I can't go into more details on my case for that reason.

    I will say that readers have proven you can get rid of bed bugs -- even by self-treating with legal methods like steam, dust, and legal pesticides labeled for bed bugs.

    More, probably, have ended up hiring someone experienced, if they had the option of doing so.

  24. itchy1

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Mar 6 2011 4:53:30
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    Well pardon me young lady, I had no idea. And yes of course I totally understand your trying maintain your privacy in any online setting. And apologies for assuming you were a guy. ::tips hat::
    And like you, if I was to take the next step, even with 100 percent sucsess I would not advocate anyone to do the same. Different people have different reactions being exposed to different chemicals and what my very well have little if any side effect on one person can wreak havoc on another...and that includes the "legal" ones. Believe me, I would much rather call in the calvary and sign a contract with a reputable PCO to totally nuke these sneaky little vermin. That just is not going to happen. As for the information out there on how to deal with them in a DIY way, there are tons of info out there, and a fair amount is even contradictory. Alot of the info is from companies trying to sell their products at ridiculous prices. IGR being one of them. From what I have gleened in my reading you can spend a small fortune on different BB kits and still end up with a full blown infestation where they end up in every room, behind picture frames, in your drawers, and in you electronics etc. If that happens in my home I am doomed just to live in it due to my financial situation. I am sure I am not the only person with bedbugs in the same situation.
    Heck, just sitting here writting this post I just had a lil feeder get his bloodmeal off my right hip. (they dont just eat you when you are sleeping) and as usual I never felt a thing until after it got its fill. I thought they may be coming from my bird cages, but it seems that is not the case. I tore both of them apart today, sprayed em with clorox..scrubbed em up good and changed all the bedding. I saw no sign of them in either cage.... conclusion, they are in the couch. Just a few mind you but they are there. GRRR. Had I known that in the early stage when they first make their they are usually a very short distance from their host I think I could have nipped it in the bud, but it appears too late now. I dont think there is any treatment on the market to kill them in a couch,,, well, other than the stuff that starts with an M. And I will make a promise to you. IF i pull out all the stops and use any questionable means in desperation to control my situation I will not post the results, so as not to tempt others to try the same thing.
    Young lady, keep up the good work, wish me luck and I cross my fingers you never have to deal with these nasty lil critters ever again. Have a great weekend and keep up the good work.


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