After much thought, I did delete the kerosene thread. It's dangerous, in more than one way.
The purpose of this forumis not to provide a space for every whacked-out idea going. We are open to new ideas here, but "don't be so open-minded your brain falls out."I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
Gosh, NoBugs, I started that one and was about to plead for it to stay. Somewhere in our lives, we may come up against a pushy, well-meaning friend, neighbor, home-help worker (my case) who will recommend something like kero. Kerosine is not an individual's "hare-brained" idea. It's apparently how many people are trying to deal with BB, in the less developed world but also in cities like NY. I've seen posts here or on BedBudRegistry that described it. All the more reason to "out" the practice. When I asked the question "contact or residual" my hunch was that kero is "contact", hence you'll have a safer time using "Murphy soap". Having the debate "here" means that we can have a more intelligent discussion "there".
"Sunlight is the best
disinfectantinsecticide" - Louis BrandeisBugdeisThou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
- Psalms 91:5-7
(Not an pro)
That was my conundrum, cilecto, and I will consider reinstating it.
It was not your post that concerned me, but there was one today talking about what a great solution kerosene was (crossposted in two threads) and others cheering this on even after others ha d commented from a place of expertise on the hazmat situation created and the flammability.
I am open to additional feedback on how to handle this one.
just to remind people, isopropyl alcohol, a contact killer used a lot, is also flammable. Maybe more so than kerosene/parrafin.
Yeah, that's true...
The difference is that isopropilic alcohol is used only for "spot" treatments in order to kill BBs sprayng them directly, if you find an harbourage, and not for generalized treatments in homes.
I'm doing some experiments with it actually, and I've seen it's very effective as contact killer against nymphs and fed adults. But unfed adults seem to be a lot less sensitive to it. Anybody can confirm my observation?
I think Doug's warning about kerosene and the hazards should be retained since in much old literature it is mentioned.
I have been into places treated with worse than Kerosine, my companies policy is now in such situations if they create the mess we will not enter to treat until we get a full certificate of clean up from a specialist decontamination team.
Spraying your house with flammable solutions because that's how they used to do it is not an acceptable reason and I would certainly find it a difficult risk assessment to conduct. For example:
- Option 1 - use 1 litre of diluted insecticide in the room with a good safety profile diluted in water (OK so that one chemical to provide COSHH sheet for)
- Option 2 - use multiple litres of insecticide per room with a less effective safety profile diluted in something that is a known carcinogen (OK so that's 2 COSHH sheets and a lot of health and safety into on kerosine exposure)
There is a very good reason why pest control moved away from kerosine carriers for pesticides, namely safety.
If you want to bring it back can I suggest you also start a campaign to bring back the steam car as well.
I for one will not be making the quantum step backwards in methodologies to play this silly and dangerous game. I have said this many times and I will say it again if you think effective bed bug control is about chemicals you have missed the boat, the plot and are certainly not looking at the big picture.
I will not be posting any further on such threads and may log off for a few days to stop me cyber slapping some sense into a few individuals because I don't want you all to have to realise through someone's death what a ridiculously stupid idea this is and one that debating the issue is not going to change the foundation facts.
Bed Bugs Limited
Doug was one of several who asked the thread be deleted. As I said, I can bring it back-- talk to me!
Yes, alcohol is flammable as we often note. We're talking about people recommending mopping the floor with kerosene...
if people are worried about what to mop the floor with, why don't they just use murphy's oil? i used murphy's (you can buy it concentrated or in a spray bottle in most home depot/home hardware type stores) when i had my infestation, and it was great. my pco told me that it is an extremely effective contact kill. it's widely accessible, and much safer.
maybe we could start a thread on products that are safe (and effective) for mopping the floor in the event of a bedbug infestation, in lieu of the previous thread. that way THIS thread can serve as the warning not to use products like kerosene, and we may not need to re-instate the previous one. just a thought?
I didn't read the original thread so I don't know it's position (were people arguing for the use of kerosene/gas/diesel, discussing it, etc...) but to be honest it's not really that important.
We can all argue about whether or not it works, whether or not it will be a commonly used "pesticide", the concern about burning an entire city block down, etc.... but the bottom line is that people use it whether its acceptable or not.
From a company perspective you need to have a protocol in place for when you encounter it because you will. Whether it's the decontamination unit like David's company or just walk away until the tenant cleans it up, anybody who treats for bed bugs in others homes should be prepared to encounter it.
From a personal perspective, I think 2 things could happen which push people to using highly flammable liquids in their home. 1: It's just an acceptable practice where they come from. There are many countries around the world that still use petroleum products for pest control and the people from these areas see spraying petroleum products for pest control like we see calling a PCO to help us with our problem. It's just the way things are done. 2. People reach a level of desperation that many who haven't experienced this can't understand. The problem with that is that people become so near-sighted about their problem they don't see the big picture in that god forbid a flame hits the treated surface, not only did you just kill yourself but you may kill others. Not hurt, kill. And if this happens and you aren't killed the bed bugs will be the least of your concerns although I have read of jails with bed bug problems. Lets hope that reckless endangerment are the extent of your charges.
I'm not too bothered by the people who do this because they don't understand it's not acceptable in your developed countries. But people who do this knowing the danger is completely aggravating and selfish. It's just not a good idea whether it works or not. I'd rather see someone get a can of DDT and use it. Putting yourself at risk is one thing, putting others at risk is another.
Just to summarize the original post…my mom's "know it all" home aide mentioned that it's what they use in her home country. My question was does it offer residual and or kill eggs, otherwise it offers nothing over Murphy's soap with a lot of downside. I wanted to be able to discuss it intelligently, should it ever come up again. I also believe that lots of people will be faced with this question as their patience and cash run out.
I think a lot of people back in the day used kerosene to deal with bed bugs. Someone on here mentioned a story of people dousing their bed-- yikes-- in it. When I was visiting a family friend, she told me about her two bed bug episodes, and one involved dousing her home in kerosene and another soot-like product, leaving for a few days and not lighting so much as a match for days or weeks. She went on to say that would be terribly stupid to recreate, and she was glad I was fine with legal, non-flammable means for my go.
People who USED Kerosene are saying it's bad. I can't imagine anyone suggesting it as viable now when most stories I've heard regarding it include a "wasn't I lucky? Wasn't I stupid?" caveat.
We recently took on a client who had doused the house 6 times with diesel.
The smell was still thick in the air and the bed bugs still numerous.
Therefore I have to conclude its not an effective treatment solution and the cost of a hazmat team to decontaminate for diesel before we could start treatment dwarfed our costs of extermination by several factors.
It may seam a cheap option until someone tells you to decon the area before they are willing to treat.
I will tell you all that the landlady was not exactly pleased to hear what her tenants had done and I suspect that when the bed bugs are done the occupiers will follow soon after. On this occasion I have to agree with her, doing this to your own property is one thing but to do it to someone else's without checking is unforgivable.
This reminds me of a (non BB story about) friend who had goo stuck in the egg cups in her fridge. She could have dropped in some detergent and warm water, let it soak and wiped it up a while later. But, no, she decided to attack the problem with the cleaner she had on hand…nail polish remover. She eliminated the egg goo, but also dissolved holes in the egg holders. I asked her what made her choose this approach. Her response: "I had to something!"
People seem to need to "do something". When I discovered a BB at my mom and dad's, I emptied a can of Raid along the baseboards of the corridor outside their apartment (that was pre my Bedbugger.com days). For others, it's nail polish remover, kero, diesel or black market who knows what.
People ARE using kerosene. I recall a post here or on bedbugregistry about an aprtment in Queens where the super assured a prospective tenant that he'd washed the walls and floor with kero.
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