Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Bed bug science, "experiments," etc.

It needs its bacteria

(25 posts)
  1. bb_gave_me_ocd

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Feb 10 2010 18:58:13
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    This looks fascinating to me, at least...Cimex can't get all the B vitamins it needs from its blood meal alone. It needs supplementation from its little bacterial pal. "Elimination of the Wolbachia symbiont resulted in retarded growth and sterility of the host insect."

    I downloaded the full article...the authors don't speculate on possible implications for bedbug control. But does it seem to anyone else that somebody should examine bactericides as a means of wiping out the symbiote and thus sterilizing the bug? I'd be interested to hear anyone's perspective.

  2. bait

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Feb 10 2010 23:02:09
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    There's this article, too.

    See, Endosymbiotic Bacteria of Bed Bugs: Evolution, Ecology and Genetics, Joyce M. Sakamoto and Jason L. Rasgon, American Entomologist Summer 2006

    Search this site for "symbiont" and you'll find past comments, questions from our posters.

    It's a long throw, but Cimex could be engineered to die out. I'm calling for extinction.

    Bait

  3. bb_gave_me_ocd

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Feb 10 2010 23:42:21
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    Thanks bait! I see other members had the same theory I did, that we could find a way to kill Cimex through its bacteria...but this new research seems to really advance the idea in that it proves that bedbugs really do require Wolbachia to survive or at least to breed. It looks like in that older discussion that Wolbachia were found to be ubiquitous but it wasn't clear what role they played.

    And actually, I think the idea of killing off insect parasites via an antibiotic that works against their helpful Wolbachia bacteria is already being explored with mosquito populations.

    I may be grasping at straws but I have to take comfort in any new research that shows promise. I am ALL FOR EXTINCTION!

  4. persephone86

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu Feb 11 2010 13:31:28
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    Very interesting! I would love to see more research done on this as well. I would be lovely if one day something could be developed commercially to effectively target bb's in this fashion. I am all for wiping these bastards out!!!

  5. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 12 2010 10:00:17
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    Extinction accept for evil is not a good thing. But BBs as an endangered species has a certain ring to it.
    Many things work in theory and labs.

  6. bb_gave_me_ocd

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 12 2010 14:55:45
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    I know, I know, it may not work in practice, I understand...I just need to have hope that there is some sort of progress being made, or I can't go on. I wasn't trying to say this WAS the final solution, just that it has interesting potential implications.

  7. BBcoukHome

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 12 2010 15:20:18
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    Hey,

    We could all go "happy slappy" and treat the world with antibiotics as if they were smarties.

    OOps the medical profession beat us to that one and look where it got them with treatment of infections.

    Although I am sure its an interesting piece of research as a control tool the mode of action would be too slow and it would still require 7+ years to regulation before it could be used by professionals and 10+ before it gets to home use grade.

    If we wait that long we will have exceeded the infection rate of the 1930's by a long shot.

    Research is always good to see from an academic perspective because it may eventually help in some way.

    David

  8. bb_gave_me_ocd

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 12 2010 15:37:18
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    I wasn't suggesting that we do nothing until such a product is available, nor to administer antibiotics to everyone. I'll cease posting links to studies as I seem to be having trouble expressing my point in doing so. Yes I did use the word "extinction" in a brief lapse of reason but I wasn't suggesting that any single antibiotic or product could make extinction happen. Sorry to bring it up.

  9. parakeets

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 12 2010 18:11:13
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    I was excited to read this and hope that more research is done on this though I agree it would be a long time before something like this could actually be used to reduce the bedbug population. In the meantime, I'm getting more and more hopeful about research developing detection methods. If there was a detection method that could be widely-used to reliably detect a very early infestation (or re-infestation) of bedbugs I think it would make a huge difference. Right now a lot of people have bedbugs but don't know it, or can't prove it. There are shoddy and incomplete treatments going on when people do have bedbugs and the bedbugs persist. With reliable detection methods people could have proof that they had bedbugs or that the bedbugs weren't gone after treatment and react quickly and appropriately.

  10. bait

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 12 2010 21:39:57
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    I agree with you parakeets.

    The pest control people are not entirely to blame for the poor results of bed bug treatments. The problem is in the products. The pros like to say that application methods are key to successful treatment, but I think that's somewhat of a smokescreen. The products simply don't work well enough against such a challenging insect. We have no choice but to look to innovative minds and new approaches.

    Bait

  11. spideyjg

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 12 2010 22:43:29
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    There is ......

    You can't....

    Try....

    It is .......

    Ahh screw it. Pointing out facts around here is useless anymore.

  12. tiredofbedbugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 12 2010 22:59:08
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    its just nice to be able to think that there MAY be a way and a day where bed bugs will only exist in the silly rhyme we all now probably hate.

    bb extinction would be nice!!!

  13. bb_gave_me_ocd

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 13 2010 1:19:19
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    I apologize for my snotty comment earlier. I know that David and Winston are professionals who donate their time here on the forums to people who need help and I commend them for it. I am sure it's important to not get carried away by any preliminary study and my intention surely was not to raise false hopes. It just seems to me that the situation is rather out of control and any new research that might someday possibly contribute to control of the problem might be cause for a tiny bit of encouragement. I completely agree that there's not going to be a magic bullet--I just think that there might be a reason to think that we can have better control than we have now. Is it unreasonable to have that hope?

  14. bait

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 13 2010 1:36:58
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    ocd,

    What on earth are you apologizing for? This is an internet forum, please speak your mind. Please continue to link your findings; your input is invaluable to everyone who comes here for help. This forum is for everybody, but in particular those suffering from beg bug infestations. That includes me and I presume you.

    I respond to things that interest me, not insult my intelligent. My hope is you will continue your participation on these boards unfettered. Is it unreasonable to have that hope?

    Bait

  15. BBcoukHome

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 13 2010 8:10:30
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    parakeets - 13 hours ago  » 
    If there was a detection method that could be widely-used to reliably detect a very early infestation (or re-infestation) of bedbugs I think it would make a huge difference.

    Hi,

    Could not agree more with this which is why I invented the passives, this is exactly what they do.

    David

  16. persephone86

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 13 2010 16:56:38
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    I have to concur David! Early detection is key! Being the daughter of a nurse, I knew by the fifth bite that something was up either with my skin or in my apartment, so I consulted with her and went on the internet, where I learned about these bastards. Inspected and found my first nymph. Grrrrrrrrrrr!!! But, I had discovered the problem only a week and a half after the first bite, so I got the ball rolling fast with research and prep, which kept them from further infesting my things and was able to keep their overall numbers down. My PCO was a dream (really knows his stuff) and said that my treatment was a breeze for him. YAY!!! Now, when I get some extra funds together, your passives are on my list of must get items!

  17. bugger09

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 22 2010 10:39:12
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    bb_gave_me_ocd - i think this is a fascinating study. I think its a good idea (along with detection studies) to find a way to possibly eliminate them forever. That would be lovely. Please keep posting articles!

    Spideyjg - I like facts! Can you please give more information to why you think this wont work? I'm not being sarcastic, I know you are very knowledgeable and I would really like to know.

    Thank you!

  18. spideyjg

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 22 2010 10:57:24
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    bugger09 - 6 minutes ago  » 

    Spideyjg - I like facts! Can you please give more information to why you think this wont work? I'm not being sarcastic, I know you are very knowledgeable and I would really like to know.
    Thank you!

    Essentially what David said....

    Hey,

    We could all go "happy slappy" and treat the world with antibiotics as if they were smarties.

    OOps the medical profession beat us to that one and look where it got them with treatment of infections.

    Although I am sure its an interesting piece of research as a control tool the mode of action would be too slow and it would still require 7+ years to regulation before it could be used by professionals and 10+ before it gets to home use grade.

    The FDA is gonna approve massive doses of an antibiotic for pest control use?

  19. cilecto

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 22 2010 22:25:03
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    Wonder what other members of our ecosystem also depend on this bacterium. Imagine we eradicated wolbachia, and by extension Ci Lect, then discovered that pigs also require it to reproduce…

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  20. spideyjg

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 22 2010 22:39:26
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    cilecto - 13 minutes ago  » 
    Imagine we eradicated wolbachia, and by extension Ci Lect, then discovered that pigs also require it to reproduce…

    The horror! No bacon! Aieeeeeeeee!!!!

    Jim

  21. bb_gave_me_ocd

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 23 2010 15:10:07
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    I'm sure the FDA would not approve doses of antibiotics for this purpose. I guess I was more thinking of an external bactericide, something like what are already used on crops (but not necessarily the same agents), being potentially conceivably maybe someday in the far-off future after years of rigorous testing being used as part of an integrated multimodal control plan in human dwellings. I'm sure there are millions of reasons why this may well not work--I have no idea if the bactericides used on crops are effective against Wolbachia and I don't know how long a residual effect they would have, nor am I sure that any residual would reach the bedbug in sufficient amounts to kill the bacteria, and I realize that eliminating the bacteria only sterilizes the insect and does not kill it. And I am sure that there are tremendous amounts of potential drawbacks to the strategy; I haven't reviewed any safety data for any external bactericides. I'm also not in a position to be handing out antibiotics to the whole world, suggesting that everybody run to their doctors and demand prescriptions, or spraying crop dust in people's apartments--just wondering out loud on an online forum about future potential strategies, to be explored properly by entomologists and evaluated by appropriate regulatory authorities, and as it's only just now been discovered that Wolbachia are symbionts to the bug I don't think anyone has even made any conceptual inquiries into this. That's all I meant.

    I haven't found that pigs need Wolbachia, but it appears to also be required by some species of parasitical roundworms, including species that cause onchocerciasis (the world's second-leading cause of blindness) and lymphatic filariasis (also known as elephantiasis, which can cause the scrotum to swell to the size of a basketball, and yes there are pictures on that link). I don't rule out the possibility that there's a useful role for them somewhere.

  22. MyWorstFear

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 23 2010 18:26:31
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    spideyjg - 19 hours ago  » 

    cilecto - 13 minutes ago  » 
    Imagine we eradicated wolbachia, and by extension Ci Lect, then discovered that pigs also require it to reproduce…

    The horror! No bacon! Aieeeeeeeee!!!!
    Jim

    LOL, that's what I was thinking when I read all of this thread. But, I think I could give up bacon if it meant bb extinction....yes, most definitely!

  23. bait

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 23 2010 22:08:54
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    _ocd,

    Thank you for reminding us that science is about discovery; each discovery built around our need to understand the world around us in our quest to secure a better future. We all benefit from scientific exploration, sooner or later, one way or another, directly or indirectly.

    Bait

  24. spideyjg

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Feb 24 2010 0:46:27
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    Science sucks, long live bacon!

  25. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Feb 24 2010 2:30:53
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    {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{spidey}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

    You crack me up.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."

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