Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Bed bug science, "experiments," etc.
Interesting read from 1934
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 1:22:28
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http://lrs.afpmb.org/3QQ269346T9XS8472SEUS6SY/arc/al_06_tit_fetch/8/1021
Was reading this paper from 1934 in England and struck by the similarity of the questions we are still asking today. I know much of this has probably been further studied and or clarified or refuted.
Interesting bits about survival of hatchlings in a study from 1914 on page 28, of the PDF.
Many results of "can they spead disease." All negative.
SuperHeating the room to 125-145 for 6 hours suggested in a paper from 1923 in the appendix, PDF page 43. Along with some other temp experiment results. *read further* Succesful room thermal treatments via steam as early as 1916.
1929 a spider in Greece, Thanatos Flavidus Simon supposedly was a big BB eater. 30-40 a day. Article from Time in 1929 about that spider.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,737831,00.html
Very interesting. If these spiders were such good BB killers back then to warrant mention in Time as wiping BBs out of a suburb why aren't we studying breeding them for bug to bug combat?
We have only heard of 2 effective BB predators, house centipedes and masked hunters, bandied about but not this one.
Jim
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Excellent link, Jim-- the second one, I mean!
http://bedbugger.com/2008/08/20/from-times-rich-archives-a-spider-hungry-for-bed-bugs/
The first isn't working for me. Can you please paste in the citation and then people can search for it? Thanks!
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 2:06:33
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Try this...
http://lrs.afpmb.org/3QQ269346T9XS8472SEUS6SY/arc/al_06_f09/VHV2EFTF
I was in this...
http://lrs.afpmb.org/rlgn_app/ar_login/guest/guest
and searched for "Bed Bug, Temperature" and it was the 8th item down. "Report on the Bed bug" from 1934 by the London Ministry of health.
It may be a login thing since after 1/2 hour I was logged out as a guest.
Jim
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 2:11:51
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Nobugsonme - 15 minutes ago »
Excellent link, Jim-- the second one, I mean!
http://bedbugger.com/2008/08/20/from-times-rich-archives-a-spider-hungry-for-bed-bugs/ Thanks!Cool. If this turns out to be a natural remedy y'all heard it here first unless of course you are a very old Atheniean. ;)
I was digging and can't find anything on that spider. I'm sure Sean or one of our entomologist can find out.
Jim
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Hase, A. 1930. Zur Frage der Bettwanzenbekämpfung durch sogenannte biologische Verfahren. naturwissenschaften 18: 23. [Rev. Appl. Ent. B-22: 255].
Hase, A. 1933. Bekämpfung der Bettwanze durch die Spinne Thanatos flavidus. Naturwissenschaften 21: 285. [Rev. Appl. Ent. B-22: 255].
Hase, A. 1934. Über eine erfolgreiche, biologische Wanzenbekämpfung durch die Spinne Thanatos flavidus. Naturwissenschaften 22: 649-50. [Rev. Appl. Ent. B-22: 255].
Hase, A. 1942. Über Entlausung durch Ameisen sowie über die Wirkung der Ameisensäure auf Kleiderläuse. Z. Parasitenk. 12: 665-77. [Rev. Appl. Ent. B-31: 235].Maybe you already saw these articles; I used a translation site and by the titles all these articles seem like they could be cover this topic. Does anyone know how we could get old copies of articles from Naturwissenschaften magazine? Maybe that would clear up what kind of spider this is.
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*covering*
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 10:23:30
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I have to go to work today, so my time is more limited than unusual, and unfortunately, it's at the school with worse library access, but I'll see what I can do about digging up a copy of the article in question.
However, the beginning of the school year approaches, and my to do list gets longer and longer. If I forget, somebody PM in like three days if I haven't posted anything, okay?
(I mean, look. There are many things I'm not good at. But finding articles? Sort of part of what I do for a living. I'm totally happy to work my skills and access to library networks for these boards after everything they've given me.)
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Hi All,
I am working on getting a copy of the original too. It's not an instantaneous process by any means, but is an easier way to clear up the name! -
omisbliss
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 11:54:29
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It's interesting how centipedes are suppose to be good hunters for bed bugs. I have been in my apartment 20 years and this summer was the first i can recall where i must have killed at least 4 centipedes. At first i thought how odd? Why are they here? Now i wonder if they didn't come in because they sensed the bed bugs. Weird! Any thoughts?
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Jim,
Thanks for the reference.
"It has been suggested that in groups of school-children it is possible to pick out those that come from bug-infested houses by their sallow complexions and listless appearance."
What adults among us can't relate to that?
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 12:34:59
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Seems like an entomological mystery. They changed the way stuff was classified from back then.
“Numerous classification schemes were published in the 1930s, most of them in response to one by Alexander Petrunkevitch, but none of these is now acceptable and up-to-date. All classifications have relied heavily on the work of Eugène Simon, who published in France in the late 19th century. “
From. Encyclopædia Britannica. Deluxe Edition. Chicago: Encyclopædia Britannica, 2008.
My suspicion is it is a specie of wolf spider based on the 30-40 bugs a day eaten.
“Ground Spider, or Hunting Spider, any member of the spider family Lycosidae (order Araneida), a large and widespread group. They are named for the wolflike habit of chasing and pouncing upon prey. About 125 species occur in North America, about 50 in Europe. Numerous species occur north of the Arctic Circle. “
“Wolf spiders commonly occur in grass or under stones, logs, or leaf litter. They are especially active at night or if the sky is overcast.”
From. "wolf spider." Encyclopædia Britannica. Deluxe Edition. Chicago: Encyclopædia Britannica, 2008.
Hmmmm.... so the aforementioned “Thanatos flavidus Simon” probably now has a new name as a European wolf and it's fondness for BB eating habit was forgotten.
The Lynx family also hunts.....
“any of several groups of active spiders (order Araneida) that do not build a nest or web but capture their prey by pouncing upon them. Lynx spiders are distributed worldwide and in North America are most common in southern regions. The eyes are arranged in a hexagon, and the abdomen usually tapers to a point. Lynx spiders are usually found on vegetation, seeking insect prey. “
From "lynx spider." Encyclopædia Britannica. Deluxe Edition. Chicago: Encyclopædia Britannica, 2008.
Did you send that info to Sean or Louis Sorkin?
Jim
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Jim,
Yes-- Lou has seen the article and is also looking up the reference.
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Jim-- one question: where did you get 30-40 a day? I can't see that in the Time piece.
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 13:02:06
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Nobugsonme - 5 minutes ago »
Jim-- one question: where did you get 30-40 a day? I can't see that in the Time piece.It was mentioned in the appendix of the 1934 report mentioning Dr. Lorando's paper. Page 48 near the bottom.
"LORANDO, ^f. T. (1^29): Rci. Mon, [N.Y.], 29, 265 (rrom Krv. Appl. Ent.).
Tn Greece a spider Thanatos flavidis Simon .preys upon Cimex,
3O to 40 bed-bugs, being eaten daily. Small spiders start feeding at
once."This may help if it can be found also...
Bristowe, W.S. 1934. The spiders of Greece and the adjacent islands. Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London,
Jim
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We should have Lorando soon.
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 14:49:05
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Many techniques we use now they were trying back then. They had no DE apparently but they were trying to eliminate all cracks and minimize use of wood.
That appendix is full of interesting tidbits.
Chevalier, L. (1929): J?M«. A’<;(;. Sci. nat. mod. Se.ni.e-e.t-Oise, 10, 46.
Animals that prey on the Bed-bug.PUIIDY, ,T. S. C1920): lust. Med. Ovng. \_llfh Sesawn^, p. 298 (from Kev.
Appl. jKn-t.).
In one case where cockroaches had been exterminated in a house it
was found advisable to re-introduce them to keep down Bed-bugs. (Ewwwww!)HEUAUD, A. (1916): La Vie Agric. et HUT. 1’a-r-is, 6, 296.
Corrugated paper under a mattress is a successful trap, as Bed-bugs
tend to lay and to hide in the crevices. The paper can be removed
and burnt. -
BBGROSS
newbite
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 15:46:35
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We have crazy nasty centipeeds in ourhouse. I used to flip out about them because I think they are SO disgusting. The other night we saw one and my mom went to kill it. I said, "Do not kill that centipeed, they are our friends now!"
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 20 2008 17:20:01
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BBGROSS - 1 hour ago »
We have crazy nasty centipeeds in ourhouse. I used to flip out about them because I think they are SO disgusting. The other night we saw one and my mom went to kill it. I said, "Do not kill that centipeed, they are our friends now!"As much as they may skeeve people out, I wouldn't chase out or kill any wolf spiders either. They are hunter killers but, depending the type, can be big enough to send an arachnophobe into fits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_spider
Jim
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Aug 31 2008 3:00:53
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Somebody found it.
Anxious and Itching discovered that it was one letter off. Thanatus not Thanatos.
Found reference to Thanatus Flavidus Simon on Wikipediea listed under the Philodromidae family as living in the Ukraine, Greece, and Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Philodromidae_species
They are the Running Crab spiders and are like wolf in that they are hunters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philodromidae
Will dig some more but now we got closer thanks to the right name from Anxious \a/
Jim
A few pics of Thanatus here..
http://www.pbase.com/tmurray74/running_crab_spiders_philodromidae
A Thanatus on the right, Wolf on the left.
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Aug 31 2008 3:41:09
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Genus: Thanatus C. L. Koch, 1837
Characters of genus: The members of this genus have oval, sligthly elongate abdomens with a clear cardiac mark. The abdomen is the least flattened among the crab and running crab spiders and the legs are the least latigrade. Therefore they bear some resemblance to the wolf spiders (Lycosidae), but they eyes are quite different. Species of Thanatus differ from species of Philodromus by having legs IV the longest and the strongly recurved posterior row of eyes. The anterior row is short. Eyes of the posterior row are almost uniformly spaced. The carapace and abdomen is without a dark longitudinal band as in Tibellus.
There are 23 European species (Platnick, 2007): Thanatus arcticus, T. arenarius, T. arenicola, T. aridorum, T. atratus, T. coloradensis, T. dissimilis, T. fabricii, T. firmetorum, T. flavidus, T. formicinus, T. fuscipes concolor, T. gigas, T. imbecillus, T. lanceolatus, T. lineatipes, T. pictus, T. pygmaeus, T. rayi, T. sabulosus, T. striatus, T. vulgaris, T. vulgaris creticus.Found a Brazilian paper that makes mention that Usinger confirmed the Thanatus predation.
Translated the section........
"Thanatus flavidus, whose predatory action was enough to result in the elimination of C. lectularius colonized in domiciliary environment. However, even so this performance has been confirmed in laboratory conditions, becomes difficult to consider its practical application in the control of these insects (Hase65, 1934; Usinger138, 1966)."
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Spidey you beat me to it while I was trying to work out how to do italics, urls and things on this forum! Thanks for the acknowledgement. I am the said "Anxious and itching" (still am). For Thanatus flavidus Simon I initially found this Czech link here . The spider registries like this and this give only sparse details on other Thanatus species, some with photos which give you a good idea of the nature of the beast, it mainly seems to vary in colour. Nothing about eating habits. I see you and others have found more. Great work.
As an arachnophobe, to me having one in bed would be unthinkable. Then again bedbugs were also something unthinkable to me 3 weeks ago. But to be practical, the poor spiders would get crushed.
I think if you stand back and look at the idea of biological control using predators, then there is really only a place for it in the open/tropical setting, where the sleeping area and dwelling in general are continuous with the local ecosystem. I particularly like the idea that geckoes might eat them as I love having those around in tropical dwellings. I personally think the idea of southern Americans traditionally throwing their mattresses on fire ant nests seems sound too. If the ants indeed eat the bugs they would thoroughly clean the mattress due to their overwhelming numbers, and then tend to leave the mattress. At this point it could be whipped off the nest cleanly by say 2 people and hung up and beaten with an old-fashioned mattress-beater (so that's what they were for!) to remove the remaining ants.
Unfortunately for me I live in a temperate urban dwelling of tbe worst kind (Amsterdam, The Netherlands, 19th century, brick walls, wooden beams and floorboards, 4 flats to one conjoined house, fourth floor, fitted carpets and linoleum).
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Sep 2 2008 10:34:48
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"glitch - 7 hours ago »
I think if you stand back and look at the idea of biological control using predators, then there is really only a place for it in the open/tropical setting, where the sleeping area and dwelling in general are continuous with the local ecosystem.
Oh no doubt that dumping a bunch of predators is in a dwelling wouldn't be an effective treatment.
However unlike centipedes and masked hunters the predatory spiders are quite harmless to humans.
The ones that would look upon BBs as prey should be allowed to prowl. The running crab spider family, Philodromidae, get up to 10mm where the Wolf spiders get from 1-8 cm. Since the crabs are about twice the size of a BB as opposed to a big wolf that is 20 times the BB maybe the crab would find the BB a more suitable prey.
Jim
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Simon Flavidus
newbite
Joined: Mar '09
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Posted 7 months ago
Sat Mar 28 2009 1:39:55
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So, does anyone know where I can get one of me? :)
/need help with a friend's BB problem picked up at a B&B :(
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No, sorry -- but I just noticed your username (before you logged in -- I'm admin) and was admiring it. :-)
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Swollen
newbite
Joined: Mar '09
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Posted 7 months ago
Sat Mar 28 2009 9:10:22
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This may sound crazy, but I'd rather have bed bugs than spiders. I don't believe I'd step foot in my apartment ever again if we had a spider infestation. I'd roll up in a ball and cry uncontrollably.
My dad used to find it funny to chase me around the house with wolf spiders he'd find (we lived in the country.) I was hardly amused. :)
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