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Insect Growth Regulator Question

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  1. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri Nov 30 2012 10:21:27
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    P Bello - 1 week ago  » 
    Gentrol is an IGR (insect growth regulator), there is currently no credible published data that supports the efficacy of this product against bed bugs.
    paul b.

    @Paul Bello: I've been meaning to ask, but forgot - when you said "no credible published data that supports the efficacy of this product against bed bugs," where you referring specifically to Gentrol or generally to IGRs? Meaning are there other IGRs out there that work on bed bugs? Thanks.

    AbsolutelyFreaking a/k/a Abs . . . NOT an expert/professional:
    President of the Lou Sorkin Fan Club; President of the Paul Bello Fan Club;
    David Cain's #1 Fan; Devotee/Follower of Nobugsonme, KillerQueen and Winston O. Buggy; Admirer of NY Bug Man and his phrase "Knock 'em dead;"
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  2. cilecto

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri Nov 30 2012 11:05:45
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    You might want to send a "private message" to Mr. Bello to get his attention.

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  3. bedbugsuptown

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri Nov 30 2012 13:36:02
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    Yes, please do. my pco used that poduct--plus some others. Cilecto is soooo smart

  4. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri Nov 30 2012 13:41:01
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    Ok, will do. And yes he is (Cilecto so smart).

  5. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri Nov 30 2012 14:40:57
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    Hi,

    I have in the past used IGR based products so I know the class can work but as the individual product mentioned is not available to me I cant comment on it.

    There are different groups and mechanisms for IGR action and the take home may be best that not all IGR's are the same.

    David

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bedbug infestations in domestic and commercial settings. The patent numbers are GB2463953 and GB2470307.

    "Open minds find faster solutions"

    "Astral Entomologist - because so many people say my ideas are out of this world"
  6. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri Nov 30 2012 15:08:49
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    bed-bugscouk - 23 minutes ago  » 
    Hi,
    I have in the past used IGR based products so I know the class can work but as the individual product mentioned is not available to me I cant comment on it.
    There are different groups and mechanisms for IGR action and the take home may be best that not all IGR's are the same.
    David

    Thanks Handsome! - May I call you Handsome?! Just mess'n with you (not that you are not good looking). It's just that's it's the weekend and almost quit'n time and it is sooo amazing how much my "mood" changes and amps up the closer it gets to quit'n time on a Friday! Whoo Hoo.

    Seriously, thanks David Cain, that's what I wanted to know about the IGRs, that there are some out there that work on bedbugs! Thanks again and have a great, fun-filled (would say alcohol-filled but know that's not you) weekend! (Maybe with it turning colder you should try some . . . hot chocolate!!)

  7. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Fri Nov 30 2012 18:27:34
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    Sorry I am also non dairy so hot chocolate is out of the question.

    I will have to settle for a morning jog and a wheat grass smoothie (my body and mind being the temples of all things virtuous).

    Have a great weekend I know I will.

    David

  8. P Bello

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 0:15:27
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    I had no signal where I was.

    Simply stated, I know of no current commercially available product that has acceptable efficacy data as an igr against bed bugs.

    pb

    As a consulting entomologist I provide services for entities such as property managers, health/housing/emergency depts, schools, hospitality/resort/cruise industry, homeowners, food service, retail, pest professionals & product manufacturers. I recommend only efficacious methodologies, products and equipment. Professional relations have included Actisol, AMVAC, Atrix, BASF, Bayer, Catchmaster, FMC, GMT, Eaton, MattressSafe, Nisus, ProTeam, Rockwell, Syngenta & Woodstream. No compensation for product sales occurs. As inventor of Knight Safe bed bug sleep tent provides a royalty.
  9. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 7:31:02
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    That is disheartening news, but I appreciate you answering. Thank you.

  10. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 7:37:52
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    bed-bugscouk - 13 hours ago  » 
    (my body and mind being the temples of all things virtuous).
    David

    Seriously?! Well damn, that is not how I pictured you at all !

  11. P Bello

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 10:13:07
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    Disheartening?

    Not in the least !

    We have many products available with which to win the bed bug war.

    The problem and shortfalls are in the execution of the techniques and methodologies and not because we can't kill them with what we have available.

    True, none of the current available products are going to take out bed bugs with the ease of the past (i.e. harken back to the days of chlorinated hydrocarbons, organophosphates and carbamates when product such as ddt, dursban, diazinon, bendiocarb, and others even cyanide gas were used) but we are dealing with the realities of the current day.

    As such, we need to build our success over bed bugs with the tools we currently have available.

    Is the "general public" ever going to become sufficiently aware of all things bed bugs such that the problem ceases to exist in the very near future? Not likely.

    Are there going to continue to be reservior populations of bed bugs existing in those areas of current eco-social strata such that those folks will continue to have to deal with bed bug problems which serve as continued sources of infestation for others across socio-econimic lines? Yes, probably.

    Are we going to see a whole sale, across the board focus on viable bedbug programs in a broad sense such that those industries and social facets most affected take on the problem head on to otherwise "nuke bed bugs back to the stone age" or simply return the state of bed bugs as a pest of humans back to the levels we had in the late 1960s & 70s when it was "unusual" to deal with bed bugs in the average dwelling? Not likely.

    Over all the one thing that remains relatively constant in this entire situation is, or are, in fact the bed bugs themselves. Sure, we can argue that these critters have developed resistance to certain pesticides over time but for the most part, bed bugs have remained bed bugs and bed bugs do what bed bugs do.

    Think about how man, yes that's us, has totally effed up the bed bug situation and, in a sense, has brought this upon himself.

    And, if we put our heads together, I'm sure we can come up with a lengthy list of examples of how man has royally effed up where bed bugs are concerned !

    Perhaps that would be a good thread to start, something like:

    "In 25 words or less, please post an example of what you've observed the actions of man/people/etc. that have resulted in the further effin up the current bed bug situation. Please do this in a bullet point type format."

    (Now I'm sure we can "clean that up" for headline purposes but it would be interesting to read the examples of what folks have to say. And, just for fun, I'm posting an "example" below.)

    Examples of how "man has effed up the bed bug situation" might include:

    > Launching products that don't have suitable efficacy data or simply don't work. Examples include: electronic bed bug smell/scent detectors, certain natural products, certain miracle cures, products with questionable data, electronic bed bug repelling devices and traps & lures that don't work.

    > Adopting policies that essentialy eliminate the residents but not the bed bugs.

    > Seeking to push the responsibility of bed bug control to those least able to do so.

    > Being dishonest about the bed bug situation.

    In any case, it sure would be interesting to see what folks have to say because within the opposite of these comments are where solutions may be found.

    Have a nice day ! paul b.

  12. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 11:01:50
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    Thanks Paul Bello! But I do have to RESPECTFULLY, very respectfully, disagree with you on the disheartening aspect. I guess I'm just looking for "a white knight [in shining armor] upon a fiery steed" [Bonnie Tyler] with a silver bullet to ride the world over and rid people everywhere of these little monsters!! And if he/she happened to have a good IGR in his arsenal of silver bullets to render these effers sterile, then all the better!

    But it is what it is and, as you said, we will fight with what we got!

    However, it does make me curious why PCO use them if they don't work? Do they know it doesn't work, or does it work somewhat? Like renders some sterile but not 100% efficacy?

    Where have all good men gone
    And where are all the gods?
    Where’s the street-wise Hercules
    To fight the rising odds?

    Isn’t there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
    Late at night I toss and turn and dream of what I need

    Maybe this should be the bedbug anthem!

  13. P Bello

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 11:18:56
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    Yippi aye, yippi ay,

    Where have all the cowboys gone ?

    Whatever.

    Know that we can't determine why people do what they do. Overall, I'm sure that these folks would think that it is doing some good.

    However, when we have university lab folks telling us that they see NO detrimental effects until the product is applied at 10x the label rate, and this data has been published before, then why use it on a hope & prayer or spray & pray basis.

    In the applicators defense, there have been advertised & published efficacy claims so maybe these guys are putting faith in those documents however, we need toconsider the source of such documents.

    Disheartening? No it's not. Here's why; when we consider the mode of action and delayed long term effect of such a product then we need not be disappointed or disheartened because your cowboy, white knight, soldier at arms, prince, toad but you'll have to kiss him, genie, fairy godmother, magical mouse that lives in your hat, topo-gigio or whatever; can arm himself/herself with products and techniques that kill the bed bugs right now. So, why waste time fretting over a product that won't work and that even if it did would take many weeks or months for it's efficacy to kick in. Plus, we can't have a "growth regulator" effect on an already dead bed bug that has been previously killed by other more efficacious means. Right?

    Have a nice day ! paul b.

  14. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 11:36:03
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    P Bello - 8 minutes ago  » 
    Plus, we can't have a "growth regulator" effect on an already dead bed bug that has been previously killed by other more efficacious means. Right?
    Have a nice day ! paul b.

    Touche! But since everyone everywhere does not have access to the DC's, KQ's and PB's of the BB world, I think most people can testify that all their bugs are not killed the first go round . . . especially perhaps in apartment buildings and multi family dwellings where they can scatter . . . just thought that would be situation where a good IGR would come in handy!

    Thanks for your insight Paul Bello!

  15. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 16:41:00
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    When this website first started, there were a lot of people using Gentrol (an IGR) based presumably on data saying it worked. Then one study came out saying Gentrol could actually lead to an increase in bed bugs.

    Anyone who knows anything about research studies knows they can be contradictory and need further confirmation.

    People still use IGRs, including Gentrol. A PMP might use an IGR because when s/he or his/her supervisor trained, it was considered a good idea. I don't think there's any basis for panic if your PCO does. At the same time, it's worth asking questions. And I certainly would not lobby the PMP to use them, as a few people here have mentioned asking their PMP to do.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  16. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 17:25:16
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    Thanks NoBugs! I did go back and read some old threads and saw the one that said there was research that said it INCREASED the number of bedbugs . . . now THAT was scary. I had originally thought, ok, no big deal if the PCO uses it along with the other things he was going to use, it just may not be that effective. But after seeing that, YIKES!!!

  17. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Dec 1 2012 17:38:59
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    Again, don't panic. Just one study. They do contradict each other all the time, generally speaking, so it's likely more study is warranted.

    It's just a reminder to me how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Whether that's a PMP with limited knowledge or a consumer who hears good things about a type of product and tries to choose a PCO who uses something in particular.


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