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How effective killing bugs with outside Winter cold temperatures?

(17 posts)
  1. theszak

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Feb 17 2015 5:45:14
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    How effective could it be for killing any bugs in furnishings by putting the furnishings outside in this Winter cold season's single digit temperatures for several days?...

  2. Richard56

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Feb 17 2015 11:12:48
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    In theory it would work, but in practice it may be difficult to keep the required kill temperature for the required times. One would also have to research and extrapolate data from tests using freezers, which would be a more reliable method. That said, if there ever was a winter this might work, it's this one

    Richard

  3. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Feb 17 2015 13:13:21
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    Hi,

    In theory it does not work.

    In practice it does not work.

    This is because external cooling is not an active convective process and as such the core of the assets does not reach the critical death temperatures for bedbugs in the same way that you cant get reliable decontamination via the sun even if you are in a dessert region. Stephen Dogget has published some interesting papers on the subject.

    The classic example is the Arctic research station which was left for 6 months open to the elements and still had bedbugs.

    Hope this saves you from failure.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

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    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  4. Richard56

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Feb 17 2015 14:02:56
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    David:

    In theory it does not work.

    In practice it does not work.
    ----------------------------------------

    We are in agreement on the second statement and I defer to you expertise on the first, however I based it on Richard Naylor's 2010 study, "Practical Solutions for treating laundry infested with..." , which is actually consistent with some temperatures we've been experiencing here on the East Coast recently.

    From the study:

    "...A laundry bag of 2.5 kg (about 5 and a half pounds) in a freezer drawer of a standard household freezer with a minimum temperature of -18°C/-0.4°F — a separate test was done with bed bugs placed in pouches in the freezer for two hours at -17°C/1.4°F.

    2 hours at -17°C/1.4°F killed all bed bugs and eggs when placed directly (not in clothes) in the freezer. But when a bag of laundry was placed in the freezer, it took about 8 hours for the temperature at the center of the bag to reach -17°C...."

    So, maybe interpreting things wrong, or perhaps there's a difference between treating "furnishings" with cold, as opposed to laundry, but in any event it seemed a theoretical possibility to this layman.

    Richard

  5. BigDummy

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Feb 17 2015 14:21:58
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    Zombies. I think David has mentioned them coming out of hibernation when they were thought dead.

    HVAC/Locksmith/Bed Bug Control for a non-profit homeless shelter and long term veteran housing.
  6. Canuck

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Feb 17 2015 15:11:34
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    Also keep in mind, in all these tests, the bugs are contained in pouches so they are not free to roam about and find shelter to protect themselves from the extreme temperatures. A skill, at which they are very adept.

    Sheree Swindle / certified K9-assisted bed bug inspector
  7. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Feb 17 2015 15:23:42
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    Also please bear in mind that when it snows and you are caught in an avalanche you are told to dig in because snow is insulating.

    There is also a world of difference between the controlled environment of a freezer box and what happens outside.

    I have been running a decon facility for bedbugs since 2007 and can actually tell you exactly how to calibrate freezers and QC this type of work and non of it involves daily records and a Stephenson's screen because its not reliable to do this sort of thing outdoors no matter where you live.

    David

  8. Richard56

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Feb 17 2015 15:45:00
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    BD: Zombies. I think David has mentioned them coming out of hibernation
    Canuck: the bugs are contained in pouches so they are not free to roam a
    David: when it snows and you are caught in an avalanche you are told to dig in because snow is insulating.
    --------------------------
    OK. The carry away for me here is that trying to kill bed bugs with outside winter cold temperatures can potentially create a roaming zombie creature/species impervious even to avalanches and who knows what else. What was i thinking

    Richard

  9. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Feb 17 2015 15:54:22
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    I believe Lou Sorkin has also talked about bed bugs being frozen and thawing out.

    From the FAQ: Leaving stuff out to freeze, walk-in freezers, etc: how cold and how long?

    Lou also said (sometime before 10/2007),

    “I had them in a freezer at -29dF (-34 C) for 4 hours and some 1st instars lived. But [in] 5 days they also died.”

    Most of us don't have access to temperatures which are consistently this low in a freezer or outside.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  10. theszak

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Wed Feb 18 2015 2:06:35
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    Might it work for pillows?...

  11. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Wed Feb 18 2015 8:56:22
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    theszak - 6 hours ago  » 
    Might it work for pillows?...

    I can assure you that pillows are still subject to the same laws of thermodynamics as the rest of the universe.

    David

  12. theszak

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Thu Feb 19 2015 4:54:51
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    Would it work for a curtain/drape ?

  13. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Thu Feb 19 2015 7:13:44
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    theszak - 2 hours ago  » 
    Would it work for a curtain/drape ?

    <sarcasm>
    Yes because curtains and drapes are subject to a completely different set of laws of physics to the rest of the universe.
    </sarcasm>

    Please try to think about what you are asking because people are giving freely of their time which is not an invitation to people to waste it.

    To be 100% clear.

    FREEZING OUTDOORS WILL NOT WORK FOR ANYTHING.

    While I am aware that there are a few public health officials that say it will I can assure you that they do not know as much about bedbugs as they think.

    David

  14. theszak

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Thu Feb 19 2015 8:17:00
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    a) Foam cushions?...

    b) What authoritative studies/references are about lack of efficacy?...
    or efficacy?...

  15. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Thu Feb 19 2015 9:01:48
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    theszak - 37 minutes ago  » 
    a) Foam cushions?...

    You will need to be more specific what is the shape of the cushion and what are its sizes? Is it a "normal" cushion or one that can magically defy the aforementioned laws of physics?

    With regards studies there is more published on the attempted use of the sun, such as:

    http://medent.usyd.edu.au/bedbug/papers/doggett2006.pdf

    However if you cross reference Stephen Kell's work on the different types of heating methods you will see why it comes down to the type of source as well as the temperatures reached.

    Unless you are predict or control the weather where you are external is not an option as you cant create the conditions. The only other option would be to invest in some pretty high end data logging equipment to "see if it works" but that would cost you more than a reliable commercial unit such as the PackTite.

    Now please take a second minutes to read again what I have written above and to cross reference with the basics of thermodynamics and it should be clear why you are on the wrong path with this one. In fact a search of the forum will show this is not the first time this has been discussed which is why it is also mentioned int he static content part of the site.

    David

  16. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Thu Feb 19 2015 13:31:52
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    Not in a cushion
    Not in a pillow
    It will not kill them on a ledge
    It will not kill them in a hedge
    Cold will not kill them here nor there
    Cold will not kill bed bugs anywhere!*


    (*Poetic liberties taken à la Dr. Seuss. Cold could certainly kill bed bugs, but not as easily as you think. Listen to the man: your outside freezing temperatures are not reliable.)

  17. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Thu Feb 19 2015 15:21:18
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    Richard56 -  » 
    OK. The carry away for me here is that trying to kill bed bugs with outside winter cold temperatures can potentially create a roaming zombie creature/species impervious even to avalanches and who knows what else. What was i thinking

    Hilarious!

    Nobugsonme -  » 
    Not in a cushion
    Not in a pillow
    It will not kill them on a ledge
    It will not kill them in a hedge
    Cold will not kill them here nor there
    Cold will not kill bed bugs anywhere!*

    Hilarious X2 Sam I Am!


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