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House vs Apartment.

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  1. BBGen0cide

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Mar 17 2011 7:18:21
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    People need to understand when researching any info about bed bugs that apartments and homes are very different. Apartments are almost impossible to treat with high success rates. It becomes more of a control game.

    Since homes are a closed system, chances of success is much higher. It's so hard to keep track of this when reading forums and blogs about the success rate and horror stories. You have a higher chance of success in a house. Keep that in mind when you are freaking out.

  2. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Mar 17 2011 8:20:36
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    Apartment here. BBs eradicated.

    Jim

  3. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Mar 17 2011 8:24:08
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    Apartments can certainly pose more of a challenge and can have additional complications due to access and adjacent issues but I've seen some pretty challenging private homes as well. To make a blanket or
    non comforter statement like apts are only a control game is not accurate and feeds the fear.

  4. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Mar 17 2011 8:32:48
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    As an example of an apartment which eminent PCO KillerQueen has succeeded in clearing, see

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/killerqueen-the-answer-to-my-prayers?view=all#post-40006

    omisbliss - 2 years ago  » 
    ...
    I have not had a single bite since his [first] visit, i have not seen any evidence of bed bugs anywhere in my apartment. I am living the life i once knew and was so afraid i would never get back...

    And perhaps this thread will attract more comments by people who have successfully gotten their apartments treated.
    Otherwise, BBGen0cide, I for one certainly would agree with you...

    BBGen0cide - 1 hour ago  » 
    ...Apartments are almost impossible to treat with high success rates. It becomes more of a control game.
    Since homes are a closed system, chances of success is much higher...

    ...that it stands to reason – how can it be possible to treat any apartment with confidence, since bugs can just re-infest the next day from neighboring apartments.

    Anyone posting on this thread, can you shed some light on the question? It's a mystery to me. Perhaps KQ would comment, among others.

    After treating an apartment, how can one be assured bb's won't come back? Is it maybe a question of caulking 100% so they have no avenue? In some multi-room NYC apartments, for instance, especially in older buildings, sealing off access completely would seem to be prohibitively difficult.

  5. BBGen0cide

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Mar 17 2011 16:45:12
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    Dude KillerQueen is like the Bed Bug Jesus. He is one of the godly amazing tech's that has supernatural powers.

    He is the exception, not the rule.

    Apartments are hard, because they spread through the complex, and unless everyone gets treated, you can become reinfected once the pesticides wear off.

    I said "Almost Impossible". Not "Impossible.

    Regular PCO techs are not bed bug trained. They are spray and pray kings. This doesn't work, Neither does Fogging.

  6. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Mar 17 2011 21:36:47
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    BBGen0cide - 4 hours ago  » 
    ...unless everyone gets treated, you can become reinfe[s]ted once the pesticides wear off.
    ...

    Eek, you don't actually mean to equate "treatment" with application of pesticides, deeming them to be one and the same, do you.

    As opposed to integrated pest management which marshals a variety of techniques all together to fight the bugs, recognizing that pesticides have only a partial role in that, and indeed over time such role diminishes as resistance builds in many pest populations – a trend reconfirmed in the recent WSJ article at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703951704576092302399464190.html .

  7. BBGen0cide

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 18 2011 6:55:57
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    DE kills em, they know it, and avoid it if they can sense it.

    Phantom kills them as well as heat..

  8. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 18 2011 16:01:44
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    BBGen0cide - 22 hours ago  » 

    Regular PCO techs are not bed bug trained. They are spray and pray kings.

    That's a pretty gross generalization, BBGen0cide.

    You've told us before you are self-treating because all of the PCOs in your city are incompetent.

    When I asked you your city in a PM, and asked someone local for suggestions, and provided two, you declared them both unacceptable -- one because of cost, another because you could not find any reviews. Fair enough.

    But since you live in an area which hits the "top ten" lists, I find it hard to believe no one there has any competence with treating bed bugs. After all, we hear again and again that a certain amount of experience does improve one's knowledge base.

    I understand that you may have previously hired a firm you were not happy with, but you simply can't declare all pest control techs incompetent. There may have been a lot more of that years ago, when firms were still getting their first cases. It's not as likely now.

    If your true reasons for preferring DIY are cost-related, I get that.

    However, most people have not done the research and learned what they need to are not going to have a lot of success with self-treatment (and by "research," I don't mean "reading posts by someone else who is not an expert on bed bugs").

    Your constant insistance that KillerQueen is the only PCO who can solve a bed bug problem is ignorant and may be misleading people who really do need to -- and are in a position to -- hire a professional, or use one provided by a landlord.

    As I said on this thread,

    BBGenOCide,

    I recall you mentioning that you were doing your own treatment because you could not find anyone capable locally. . . .

    As I said, too often, people give up on finding someone locally because they don't have a KillerQueen or a David Cain, and this is a big mistake.

    Even a less talented and knowledgeable PCO is probably going to have a heck of a lot more bed bug knowledge and experience than those of us who have done a bit of reading. You can probably screen out obviously bad choices with some questions.

    I don't know what line of work you're in, but think about it that way: should people walk in after reading a few websites and articles and start trying to do your job well? (Keep in mind that bed bugs are one of the more difficult pest control jobs.) Whether you're an experienced writer, surgeon, teacher, dental hygienist, or plumber, most of us would say no to that.

    And note, KillerQueen agreed with me.

    However, you responded here to say that

    • You are allergic to "most chemicals," live with people with asthma, and have a lot of pets.
      (If those aren't reasons not to start spraying your own pesticides, I don't know what is.)
    • You can't afford heat, you're worried it will fail, and you don't believe it's green. Fair enough.
    • You don't want a company that does a rush job and doesn't inspect.
    • That's a good reason to choose carefully.

    However, you need to stop perpetuating the idea that KillerQueen is "Bed Bug Jesus."

    He's not.

    He simply learned how to inspect for bed bugs and kill them, and does so carefully.

    It may be a rare thing, but getting rid of bed bugs -- even in an apartment -- with a pest control pro, is not a rare thing. People do it all the time.

    I have no issues with KillerQueen and I believe he does fine work. So do a lot of other people.

    However, you're not really in a position to review KQ's services. You may have talked to KillerQueen -- and he may have been very helpful to you here or over the phone -- but you have not hired him and he has not treated your problem. Please stop turning every thread into an advertisement for his services.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  9. BBGen0cide

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 18 2011 18:33:29
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    Wow.

    KQ has helped me a lot. Just by reading his posts. He has helped a lot of people on here. I am just pointing that out, and yes being a little silly in the process "Jesus thing was a joke, sorry my humor is weird for some". I have contacted many PCO companies about bed bugs in Colorado, and asked a lot of questions and got lame answers.

    Wow. Sorry, I never meant to do what you are stating. I just find his posts very enlightening.

    Like I said in other posts. I really dislike the PRO PCO and don't DIY attitude on this site. I will stand by what I have said. I have family members who have had these bugs, turned to pcos and had horror stories and no bed bugs were killed 100%. I have experience with these things and the pcos in Colorado. They don't always fail. Sometimes they do, and they charge people 1000s stringing them along.

    More than anything, education is what is important, both for regular people, and the PCOs. KQ offers that free on here, and I have no heard one person say a bad thing about him is all. Sorry.

    I will not bring him up ever again.

    For the record. I am not telling anyone to do anything. I know not everyone is cut out for self treatment, but not everyone can afford a pco as well. From the bed bug videos and seminars I have watched on youtube, even most pcos there say a lot of techs don't know what they are doing with bed bugs. Sure I think a lot of them are learning now and many are competent. I am not saying don't use a PCO. I am saying use a PCO at your own risk, you might have bad luck, you might not.

    The bed bug war takes time, a lot of people don't have time, so a PCO is the only option. My gripe is the bad techs, and yes the exist. Not all of them are bad. But not all of them are great.

    I don't get it honestly, I see tons of ads on this site from DIY stores. I think you could get more advertising revenue if you exploited this more and put up a DIY forum section.

    I don't really want to fight with anyone, I don't mean to sound so abrasive here. I have been battling these bugs for a long time. I have watched others in town fail even with PCOs. I am frustrated beyond comprehension at this point with these bugs. I am unique, and my situation is not universal. some places may have great PCOs. I don't name names here. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's business. In fact I would like to see the DIY stuff take off. The only way the people are going to deal with this in our society is with education, and that should happen on all fronts, from pco to DIY.

  10. so unsettling

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 18 2011 18:59:12
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    Well, for whatever my 2cents may be worth, I can see both sides. But as I read this, the sad thing is that we have to do all this research, we have to look for reviews, we have to somehow figure out if this or that PCO is the one we should invest in. The sad thing is that we can't assume that just any local PCO might be effective. I don't do all kinds of research and investigation of firms when I call a plumber or electrician--I just operate on a certain amount of trust that they know what they are doing and can solve my problem. And they always can.

    This bedbug thing caught many pest control companies off guard in the last several years. It wasn't something they usually did; it wasn't a specialty for them the way cockroaches and ants were. Bedbugs are too big and complex a problem for the PCO companies to get on board all at once, especially when they are treating so many other types of bug problems. As the problem grows, I would like to see more companies which focus on bed bugs alone. That seems the best solution to me.

  11. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 18 2011 23:51:17
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    BBGen0cide - 4 hours ago  » 
    In fact I would like to see the DIY stuff take off. The only way the people are going to deal with this in our society is with education, and that should happen on all fronts, from pco to DIY.

    Hi BBGen0Cide,

    I am really sorry you found my post so offensive. It was not intended in this way. I did not say you can never mention KillerQueen again. You are welcome to participate in the site.

    However, I was a bit tired of seeing this same sort of statement from you repeatedly, and I just wanted you to understand the cumulative effect of your posts in various threads for at least some of us readers.

    As I said before, I have no issues with KillerQueen and no doubts about the quality of his work. I also know he helps a lot of people here. I am really glad he participates in the site.

    But your message has been stated several times as (1) KillerQueen is the only PCO who knows what he's doing, and I think you're also saying, since that's true, (2) I have to DIY. (There's an implication, also, that others without access to KillerQueen ought to DIY as well.)

    I really don't think that (1) is accurate, or fair, or that (2) is the best option for most people.

    You also said,


    I don't get it honestly, I see tons of ads on this site from DIY stores. I think you could get more advertising revenue if you exploited this more and put up a DIY forum section.
    . . . .
    In fact I would like to see the DIY stuff take off. The only way the people are going to deal with this in our society is with education, and that should happen on all fronts, from pco to DIY.

    .
    It may seem like the site is simply holding back on giving DIY advice, and others have in the past suggested this is because we are trying to get more business for PCOs. Neither is accurate.

    To address the latter point, PCOs don't necessarily benefit from the site not pushing pesticides. Lots of people DIY anyway. And the PCOs who participate actively in the site are few in number, and the percentage of forum users in a geographical (or sometimes financial) position to hire them are few.

    To address the first point, there are reasons the site does not do much to offer DIY advice on treating with pesticides. (We do have FAQs on steam and DE, as I am sure you're aware.)

    The main problem is that someone professionally qualified to give such directions would have to contribute to those faqs.

    I also have concerns about encouraging people to take the DIY route if it is not their only option. Most people will be better off with knowledgeable, professional help.

    We have heard many times from people who did not heed warnings about using pesticides carefully and safely, and whose attempts at DIY either caused physical harm to people, pets, or property, or made bed bug problems worse, or created a situation which needed to be cleaned up when a pro was inevitably brought in.

    If I thought DIY was an easy option, I would be recommending it across the board, believe me. I know how expensive pest control can be and I know what it's like to have bed bugs while on a tight budget.

    To address your comment about the ads, there has been a conscious decision not to try and advertise pesticides as the site has not been in a position to offer any information on their use. Despite that, as you note, Google ads do show up here for DIY stores; as noted in the Disclosure Policy, I am unable to screen Google ads in advance. (That's just how they work.) I don't even know which ads are displaying in other markets besides the geographical area I happen to be in, when I am actually looking at the site.

    (As an aside, if anyone sees problematic snake oil products or questionable services being hawked, please do get in touch with the name of the product or company and their URL if possible, so I can look into it; ads can be blocked if necessary once I am aware of them.)

    I would consider posting videos and/or directions from a named pest control professional who is willing to share their expertise with the necessary warnings about safety and following labeling instructions. (I have mentioned this in the past.) FAQs could be built around this.

    I have tried to locate and post Dr. Austin Frishman's videos, recommended by other readers (I think I heard of these first from spideyjg or Cilecto), but these seem to be no longer on YouTube.

    A lot of the other "professional' videos on YouTube are, frankly, not impressive (for example, dust being put down like piles of laundry flakes standing in for snow at a kingergarten Christmas play). You don't have to be an expert to know some of these bozos should not be giving advice.

    The bottom line is that you and I and other non-professionals like us are also not qualified to give advice on using pesticides, and for this reason, there are no FAQs of this kind at this time. If someone qualified is willing to provide text and/or video content, I am open to it. This would especially be true if this came from one of the pest pros well known to us here.

    I want to emphasize that this is not an invitation to PCOs to just start posting pest control advice in the forums. Remember that anyone here can present themselves as having experience and knowledge that they don't actually have. For that reason, there needs to be transparency about the source of this professional advice. If someone is interested in providing such information, they can get in touch with me.

    I hope that clarifies things a bit, and I am happy to answer any questions you might have.

    Finally, I am sorry you have had bed bugs for a long time. I don't know the details of your experience with PCOs, but I totally understand that if you have hired one or more PCOs who did not solve your problem, or have heard similar stories from family and friends, you would be very frustrated.

    I understand your choice, even though I do think there are surely some PCOs in your area who are not incompetent. It just stands to reason that some of them would be learning from their experiences as PCOs seem to be doing elsewhere. As I said above I also understand the financial motivation to DIY. I hope you're able to solve your bed bug problem soon.

  12. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 0:46:28
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    Nobugsonme - 51 minutes ago  » 

    FAQs could be built around this.
    I have tried to locate and post Dr. Austin Frishman's videos, recommended by other readers (I think I heard of these first from spideyjg or Cilecto), but these seem to be no longer on YouTube.
    .

    http://www.pestweb.com/producttraining/view.cfm?id=52

    [+] Embed the videoGet the Flash Videos

    [+] Embed the videoGet the Flash Videos

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/inspection-methods#post-69705


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