Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Tools/ideas for fighting bed bugs

Hot Shot Gallon Ready-to-Use Bedbug and Flea Killer

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  1. zerg_infestor

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 26 2010 16:28:15
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    I found this particular product when doing a search for DE at Lowes, it's affordable, comes in a large quantity with convenient sprayer installed. I wish I would have known about this before I bought the 30 dollar can of Phantom (that I ran out of in 2 treatments)

    http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=7716-316-HG-95861&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3113823&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=sim&rel=nofollow

    Here is another product that I ran into at the grocery store, sitting in the detergent/chemical aisle
    http://www.amazon.com/Pronto-Kill-Bedbugs-Mites-Spray/dp/B0014F5EVK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=beauty&qid=1274905448&sr=8-2

    I read up on this product and apparently it's a good residual but it's also a repellent so you have to cordon the area first and then treat the intended spot. It's very cheap and available locally.

    Finally, I found that Lowes sells Food Grade DE in 5lb bags for 14.99. It's great news to me that all these products are available at local stores for affordable prices. The only thing you need to do is develop a treatment protocol that is suitable for your area. I believe that with enough work, it's doable.

  2. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 26 2010 23:58:50
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    The products you mentioned Hot Shot Bed Bug and Flea Home Insect Killer and Pronto are OTC treatments.

    You said, of Pronto,

    I read up on this product and apparently it's a good residual but it's also a repellent so you have to cordon the area first and then treat the intended spot.

    Do you know anything about repellency and bed bugs? (It's a bad idea.)
    How would you cordon off an area to keep bed bugs from spreading?

    Have you gotten rid of your bed bug problems by using these products?
    Do you know of anyone who has gotten rid of their bed bug infestations simply by using these products?
    If not, I don't think you should be recommending them, zerg.

    And experienced bed bug killers know you need to (a) remove all the bed bugs and eggs you can find, (b) use a combination of methods -- this is key. Experienced bed bug professionals talk about a multi-pronged approach. By this, they do NOT mean using multiple pesticides containing pyrtethroids.

    Phantom is used by many pest control pros, from what I can gather. Phantom is a completely different chemical than that found in the other products mentioned. I do not think you would be better off with the Lowe's choice.

    I would urge you not to make recommendations like this. You're probably encouraging people to rush out and buy products which will not likely alone solve their bed bug problems.

    Some people must do their own pest control, but they must do research first and ask questions of people who know what they're talking about. No offense, but you don't seem to be very experienced in this area, and I suggest you hold off on giving pesticide advice.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  3. zerg_infestor

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 2:37:10
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    The products you mentioned Hot Shot Bed Bug and Flea Home Insect Killer and Pronto are OTC treatments.

    That's the whole point of this post. They are affordable products that people can find in the store. The first thing I bought was Phantom but I had no idea these things were available locally AND affordable.

    How would you cordon off an area to keep bed bugs from spreading?

    How would anyone else cordon off an area? Spray around the intended area such as the perimeter of the room or bed and then go after the real spot, when they try to run away, they cross pesticide and die. Pronto's active ingredient is Phenothrin which is a pyrethroid.

    Hot Shot Bed Bug and Flea Killer's active ingredient is Lambda-Cyhalothrin. Brand name professional product is Demand and Cyonara. These insecticides are commonly used in the fight against bed bugs and by questioning the legitimacy of these products you are questioning the legitimacy of the professional products.


    By this, they do NOT mean using multiple pesticides containing pyrethroids.

    Of course not, you're putting words into my mouth. That is not the intent of the original post. at all. They were meant to make people aware that they have options in their area instead of having to rely on ordering off of the internet which we know takes time, and time = hatchlings.

    I would urge you not to make recommendations like this.

    I'm not making a recommendation, I'm trying to make people aware, that's a big difference. It seems to me that, around here, it's heavily frowned upon that anybody shares information which is why we see more stories than guides. Maybe if we see more guides and more informational posts then we can start solving some problems.

    A main criticism of this site, that I've read from people outside of this forum, is that information is suppressed and discouraged, scaring people away and offering people no real valuable information because every time someone mentions something, any product, a veteran of the site will quickly pounce on them and snuff them out regardless of the facts out there.

    Look at yourself trying to dismiss the OTC products, I proved to you that they were also professional products which happened to be released to the public for everyday use. What does this say about you and the site? It sounds like you knew about these products, and what was in it, but tried to cover it up because you're afraid it'll be misused by the consumer.

    As if only PCO's can do it? Of course PCO's can do it, but people also need to do it on their own and we don't need people that try to limit information rather than gather it up in one place that makes it convenient for people to shop for options. I'm extremely experienced in online communities and let me say that the best forums are ones that gather up information and make it free and available to anybody that needs it. People don't go in and question, and try to dismiss the other persons post but instead if there is something that you feel I'm missing, then go ahead and intervene, that is what forums are all about. There was nothing wrong with what I posted, regardless of what you think.

    ask questions of people who know what they're talking about

    ain't nobody here offer any sort of valuable advice. I've posted my own stories, I'm well aware of professional PCO's browsing the site and not one of them gave me any sort of helpful advice in how to tackle the last stage of the infestation and what I need to do it. NOT ONE OF EM! How do YOU think I perceive things right now?

    It's not very friendly.
    I feel like I have to be defensive all the time.
    I feel like I'm getting nowhere on this website.
    Facts don't mean anything because an old timer will come in and shoot me down.

    I've heard it said many times that self-treaters will be shunned from this website and they were not wrong. That is not the correct attitude to have because everyone needs help but not everyone has access to the same resources. If you're so afraid of people making a mistake doing a self-treatment, then provide MORE INFORMATION on how to avoid these mistakes and more information on what we have access to, what works, what doesn't and where we can get these things. There has to be a clear-cut guide to do these things. Until then, the best thing you can do is inform people.

    You know what I hate most about most PCO's I've seen and met? That they are the biggest elitists and pretentious people I've ever met. They act like nobody else can do their job and it's rocket science. In actuality, it's not. I figured it out myself so why can't somebody else? I figured out how to network computers, setup OS's, build machines all without a license but with the same quality of a professional. I'm not about to pay somebody exorbitant cash to do something I could do myself for significantly cheaper.

  4. zerg_infestor

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 3:07:48
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    expanding on my last paragraph just a little bit. By limiting information to only PCO's, they make it to where the only people to go to ARE PCOs and that means more business for them. By keeping everybody stupid. I'm not about that, in any industry. It doesn't make me feel good that someone's exploiting me for my hard earned dollar. I feel that there should be a wealth of information, not a limit to it.

    We as a society will never grow unless we all come together to share what we know. I believe in websites like Wikipedia that shares information and makes everyone more knowledgeable. Now if more websites share that kind of mentality then there's no limit to what we, as human beings are able to achieve.

  5. cilecto

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 6:35:09
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    Zerg: Did your "plan a" (Phantom & DE) work for you? If so, why agonize over something "new" you saw at Lowes? BTW, what city are you in?

    If Hot Shot spray is now labeled for BB (in the US, IIRC, it was previously labeled in Canada), it's potentially good news, if used correctly. Unfortunatrly, many people will be attracted to the gallon of "stuff" and will go "hog wild" like this guy did with a similarly marketed OTC product.
    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/finally-something-works

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  6. cilecto

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 7:40:28
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    Zerg: Can you recommend some other good forums?

  7. spideyjg

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 10:12:09
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    cilecto - 2 hours ago  » 
    Zerg: Can you recommend some other good forums?

    Cilecto old buddy, you fall into the "oldtimer "category.

    Facts don't mean anything because an old timer will come in and shoot me down.

    Those other places probably would ban us in a blink.

    Just because the label covers BBs doesn't mean the product will be effective on your population. Follow the safety instructions and test on captured bugs before going widespread.

    Lots of people want a rubber stamp on whatever new product they find, snake oils included or want a detailed plan for treatment sight unseen.

    People want to self treat without getting a firm grip of knowledge on the bug itself and they fail.

    Jim

  8. cilecto

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 11:30:14
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    > Cilecto old buddy, you fall into the "oldtimer "category.

    I feel it. How the heck did I rack up 1100 posts?

  9. zerg_infestor

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 13:40:19
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    cilecto - 6 hours ago  » 
    Zerg: Did your "plan a" (Phantom & DE) work for you? If so, why agonize over something "new" you saw at Lowes? BTW, what city are you in?
    If Hot Shot spray is now labeled for BB (in the US, IIRC, it was previously labeled in Canada), it's potentially good news, if used correctly. Unfortunatrly, many people will be attracted to the gallon of "stuff" and will go "hog wild" like this guy did with a similarly marketed OTC product.
    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/finally-something-works

    Well I never got the DE, I'm actually going out and getting it this Sunday. About the Phantom, yes it did work in the intended area (my room, hallway and living room) however the residual is gone now and my parents bedroom and brothers room was untreated and I suspect that some nymphs are coming in from over there. For the two weeks the residual was up I never felt the intense itchiness and welts.

    Like I said in my post in my other topic, Phantom is a great product however there isn't enough to do a house-wide treatment. With smart application, I could probably do more but I was trying to get it laid down around the perimeter instead of crucial areas like around the couches and bed (btw I did lay it down around my bed) Using a combination of Phantom and DE would have been better. Phantom for the area around living spaces, and DE for the perimeter and the bed/couch itself. Now that I've run out of Phantom, it's just going to be DE.

    Just because the label covers BBs doesn't mean the product will be effective on your population

    Yes I agree with that. In fact the chemical that's in Hot Shot is also in Cyonara and cileto knows I've argued with him over Cyonara vs Phantom LOL! It doesn't hurt to try though, it IS Cyonara/Demand and its' only 10 dollars.

    Zerg: Can you recommend some other good forums?

    so you can go ruin those too? No thanks, the other ones I have are great and have reputable PCO's there as well.

  10. cilecto

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 14:19:29
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    > cileto knows I've argued with him over Cyonara vs Phantom

    I generally avoid debating specific chemicals, as I lack the expertise. I call you on your "certainty" about stuff.

    > so you can go ruin those too?

    Sure.

  11. zerg_infestor

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 14:55:27
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    I generally avoid debating specific chemicals, as I lack the expertise. I call you on your "certainty" about stuff.

    cileto, my certainty comes from education. The same education used to educate pest management professionals. It's not difficult, and even Jason1 and Dragon said the same thing I did, it's not rocket science. I checked out the Third Code of Conduct manual and found that I already knew everything in there. Unfortunately the problem is the lack of funds. I only make 35-40 bucks a week so every time I buy something it's a huge gamble.

    Nobugs mentioned that the code of conduct tells you how to treat an infestation but doesn't tell you how to apply them. Well the directions on the label tells you how to apply them and where they can be applied! Jeff White in his videos constantly encourage people to follow directions on the label. When I applied Phantom, that's exactly what I did and I'm sitting here typing this to you without a single health problem. If you saw the way I applied the pesticide you'd mistake me for a PMP.

    It's all about education. About seeing the bigger picture, using information as your tool and your guide to do what needs to be done. In this world, we live in a time where we have everybody doing everything for us. That was not always the case. We need to make people more aware, and more informed. The first step to anything is common sense. If you have common sense, and all the information at your disposal, there is no limit to what you can do.

  12. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 16:30:21
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    zerg_infestor - 13 hours ago  » 

    The products you mentioned Hot Shot Bed Bug and Flea Home Insect Killer and Pronto are OTC treatments.

    That's the whole point of this post. They are affordable products that people can find in the store. The first thing I bought was Phantom but I had no idea these things were available locally AND affordable.
    How would you cordon off an area to keep bed bugs from spreading?

    How would anyone else cordon off an area? Spray around the intended area such as the perimeter of the room or bed and then go after the real spot, when they try to run away, they cross pesticide and die. Pronto's active ingredient is Phenothrin which is a pyrethroid.
    Hot Shot Bed Bug and Flea Killer's active ingredient is Lambda-Cyhalothrin.

    Actually, I don't think so. Look really closely at the product you linked to is Hot Shot Bedbug and Flea Home Insect Killer:

    http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=7716-316-HG-95861&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3113823&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=sim&rel=nofollow

    If you make the photo larger, the active ingredient is one word, beginning with a P. Looks like permethrin.

    Things are made difficult by the fact that you can't easily google an MSDS for this product.

    And note: Hot Shot has additional products beginning with Bedbug and Flea Killer which are foggers -- and experts tell us foggers can make bed bugs spread, but are not a solution.

  13. cilecto

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 20:13:07
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    Live from Home Depot. Hot Shot liquid is .2% Permethrin, 99.8% Other. Hot Shot aerosol is .3% Pyrethrins, 1.5% Piperonyl butoxide, 98.2% Other. I'm not in a position to judge this product.

    In my two years here, I've generally concentrated on the following:
    - welcoming new members
    - dealing with family, neighbors, landlords and tenants
    - explanations/discussions of what certain products are
    - helping others find information
    - explaining prevailing thoughts about washing, drying, bagging
    - discouraging panicked shopping sprees
    - helping newbites to go home for the holidays

    I don't recall telling anyone to self treat or not to self treat, or what insecticide to use.

  14. zerg_infestor

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu May 27 2010 20:47:22
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    If you make the photo larger, the active ingredient is one word, beginning with a P. Looks like permethrin.

    I did a google search and saw Lambda so apparently it's mislabeled somewhere than what's actually listed on the product. The MSDS was what I was looking for.

    And note: Hot Shot has additional products beginning with Bedbug and Flea Killer which are foggers -- and experts tell us foggers can make bed bugs spread, but are not a solution.

    If you visit their website you'll see that this is a separate product than their Aerosol and BB&Flea Home Insect Killer. It's clearly labeled as a fogger. I read the reviews on the fogger and none of them found it to be effective. Of course, I already knew they didn't work but didn't hurt to read up on it.

    Live from Home Depot. Hot Shot liquid is .2% Permethrin, 99.8% Other. Hot Shot aerosol is .3% Pyrethrins, 1.5% Piperonyl butoxide, 98.2% Other. I'm not in a position to judge this product.

    Thanks for the heads up. With an exact chemical listing it's a lot easier to research

  15. rothalion

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri May 28 2010 22:11:08
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    We need, I think, to be careful using a REPELLENT along with Phantom. If you REPEL them they won't get dosed by the Phantom. I initially bought the Hot Shot stuff and was happy to see it knock down individual bugs; but unfortunately it did not deal with the guys in the hiding spots. We finally, after a lot of research, used Phantom knowing it is a slow kill but has the transfer agent. We tore the house apart twice treating every and any nook and crainy we could find. I feel quite strongly that Lowes, Home Depot, most PCO'S and Hot Shot are doing us a grave dis-service by marketing that stuff for bed bugs. Ace Hardware also sells an aerosol product for bed bugs for about $10.00 a can that is totally useless for a house. I can't think of the name and I tossed the can. I think the active chem was Pyrethrines (sp)

    Also "Phantom is a great product however there isn't enough to do a house-wide treatment. With smart application, I could probably do more but I was trying to get it laid down around the perimeter instead of crucial areas like around the couches and bed..."

    I bought my Phantom in a concentrate. Enough to make at a minimum 15 gallons. For that and the Gentrol I paid $80. I have paid easily that much in garbage bags.

    Any way we are bite free for eleven days and sight of bug free for five, the cat had a half dead one and a half dead one was staggering around the bathroom. I know not to get my hopes up but damn we really want to get a couch!

    Not to be cynical but I'm thinking that we need Bedbugless tokens like the ones they use for A.A. Thirty days un-bitten and still going strong kind of stuff....

  16. zerg_infestor

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat May 29 2010 0:14:21
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    I feel quite strongly that Lowes, Home Depot, most PCO'S and Hot Shot are doing us a grave dis-service by marketing that stuff for bed bugs.

    Yes I read up on Permethrin and it's an insect repellent despite the fact that the stuff works on bed bugs and it does leave a 30 day residual. Deltamethrin also repels bed bugs but BB's will still cross the poison if it's hungry enough. Still, I'm not comfortable with repellents because the bugs WILL disperse. I learned that the hard way when I laid down double sided tape on the floor.

    I bought my Phantom in a concentrate. Enough to make at a minimum 15 gallons.

    I see that this is 69 bucks excluding shipping. Way out of my price range. Phantom alone was almost 30 bucks and I only make 35-42 a week. DE is far more economical. I like Phantom but it just doesn't come in the quantity I need it.

  17. rothalion

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat May 29 2010 0:32:51
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    That sucks! This is not a poor man's plaque....We tossed down some Borax laundry powder as well as the Phantom it was pretty cheap. Trust me this is nickle and dimeing us to death! Remember 91% alchohol kills on contact...Our respective city govts. need to address this problem. Laws should be in place for disclosure to renters and home buyers....The Mexican web said that DEET is a good repellent, like Deep Woods Off. Nasty but at least if it works you'll have less bites.

  18. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat May 29 2010 1:22:26
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    If you read product labels, DEET lasts for a few hours before needing reapplication. It also needs to be washed off at the end of the day. Sleeping in it nightly does not sound healthy and given how long it lasts before needing to be reapplied, I would not count on it working.

    People who REALLY want to sleep without being bitten should consider isolating the bed instead. (I personally do not recommend full isolation, and the protecting/isolating the bed FAQ explains why, but it is the right choice for some and I think it is a much better choice than sleeping in DEET.)

    FWIW most people also seem to report that double-sided tape is not very effective.

  19. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat May 29 2010 1:24:02
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    zerg, you should also do some reading on pyrethroid-resistance.

  20. zerg_infestor

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat May 29 2010 4:49:25
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    FWIW most people also seem to report that double-sided tape is not very effective.

    The reason why its' not effective is for the fact that they will disperse and find an alternate source of blood. That is very bad. BB's will stop trying to cross when it sees it's fellow bugs dead or trapped.

    When I had the double sided tape up, it was very nice not to get any bites and feel safe but then my mom started getting bites and I knew it was bad then.


    zerg, you should also do some reading on pyrethroid-resistance.

    Yes I've read up on that already, like a month ago. I'm not sure if my pop is resistant to chemicals, which is why I went with Phantom. Phantom works great, wish I hadn't have squandered it.

    Remember 91% alcohol kills on contact

    Yes, I have some in fact and I should use it considering there's only a mattress and I'm getting bit again. It's pretty obvious they are hiding down there.


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