Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Tales of Bed Bug Woe
Help! I think they're back and we're moving! What to do???
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ihatebugs
newbite
Joined: May '07
Posts: 30
Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 7:15:13
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I thought these m-fers were gone and now I think they're not. I am just so sick about this. I found black spots in the bed that smear and then I found a blood "blob" (large poop??) on the window sill where I've also been finding black spots on the shade. Yesterday when I got out of the shower I had four "bites" in my underarm. Of course, my husband thinks I'm crazy and that they're not bites. However, on his side of the bed I found blood smears. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck......
So, we're scheduled to move in about a month. We've had six treatments so far. My PCO will spray my new house before I move in. Here's my concern, and I feel sick just writing it and thinking about it. Our stuff has to sit on the moving truck for one week before we can get into our new house. We are going from a three bedroom, two story house where the bedrooms are all very close together and upstairs to a five bedroom house where the rooms are all spread out. If all the stuff sits on the truck adn those little @#$**#@ spread, I'll have them all over my new house. I don't know what to do. I spoke with a new PCO a couple of weeks who threw out Vikane gas, but we didn't discuss it in depth because I thought they were gone. Someone else here thought that gassing the truck would be a good idea, and I agree. My husband has declared that we should just toss everything and start over, but that's impossible. Even if we just gt rid of the furniture, they could be anywhere else and that just seems like a futile effort. What a waste to get rid of perfectly good furniture, pay to replace it only to find that they were in a picture or something.
so, I'm putting this out there in desparation. If anyone knows how this works, who does it in the NY area, etc. I would so very much appreciate your advice. I'm so worn down by this and I just don't want it in my new home.
Thanks so much...
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willow-the-wisp
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 8:23:28
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Bombs and fumigation are not usually recommended for in-home use, but in a moving van/truck--that is loosely packed it is very different. If stuff is packed loosely there is no escape into the tiny cracks in the walls. In a week's time you could drop three or even four bombs if need be inside the truck--then do it again 6 days later. However this may not be legal in NY State. (If you're in the tri-state area ....could you drive moving van to another state if need be?)Not sure how you'd do that there ...
I'd not want to pack anything from that particular room into the truck, unless inspected first with a fine toothcomb. And I'd definitely clean that entire side of the room--and I'd isolate or chuck the bed and box spring in your room BEFORE ever packing it up on the truck.
Or you could talk about Vikane gas for the truck with a PCO.
Just some thoughts based on what you wrote—best wishes hope it all works out! -
You can Vikane gas a truck here Or a building, for that matter). People have mentioned finding someone who does it in NJ and someone on Long Island may exist as well.
That's what I'd do and it has to be cheaper than buying all new stuff (and, of course, some stuff can't be replaced.) Make sure you do it right--anything in bags or sealed will not get gassed. They will explain.
(It's thermal you can't do in NY.)
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ihatebugs
newbite
Joined: May '07
Posts: 30
Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 9:58:33
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Any known companies that do it? We're in CT, but if I have to I can get the truck to NY or NJ. I'll do just about anything at this point.
You're right, nobugs, some things can't be replaced and how do you just get rid of EVERYTHING??? My God, they could be anywhere so by that theory you'd have to move naked!
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parakeets
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Joined: Mar '07
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 15:07:08
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That is fabulous about the Vikane trucks. Great information. Well worth it!
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Go to The Bedbug Resource, Sean's site, and search the forums. Someone wrote a while ago about his own research of "commodity fumigation." He found some companies, some quotes; he described how it's done, etc. Good luck.
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nightshirt
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Joined: Mar '07
Posts: 455
Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 15:55:20
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i know you are pco'ing a house but is your pco using the proper chemicals? 6 treatments sounds like alot?
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ihatebugs
newbite
Joined: May '07
Posts: 30
Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 17:01:40
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No kidding. They said that in all they've used five (I think) chemicals. But, that being said, the last time they were here he said that he had just attended a conference and that the new word on the street is that they are finding that the residuals aren't as effective as they once thought they were. So, unless the little suckers are sprayed directly, all this other stuff laying around is pretty much worthless, if this is all true. I guess what I'm thinking is that if this is correct, then if they are missing a spot--a blind, a crack in the floor, etc. where they are living, then they just keep on coming back. I hate these things.
Hopeless, thank you for the link. I'll check it out.
You know, this sucks having to put my kids to bed knowing these things are out there. I hate them.
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nightshirt
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 17:07:24
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even if the bb's are not as effective as they once were (when is "once were")(they were effective for me) then maybe the pco should use de. that is residual and they crawl through and it rips their skin off - or something to that effect. caulking is a good idea even if you aremoving and kleen free for contact killer. i dont think they are totally resistant to the chemicals out there now. maybe in a few years they will be but this epidemic is just getting under way (correct me if im wrong) and i think it is too soon for them to be resistent. someone please weigh in on this.
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coopbugged
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 17:18:10
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jammin' you know i've resisted the use of de but i think your post convinced me to try it... I just love the idea of "ripping their skin off." In a week or two as we try to get back to normal I think I will try it for extra insurance!
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ihatebugs
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Joined: May '07
Posts: 30
Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 17:44:48
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I have little ones. is the de safe to use "around"? I know they used it in the outlets, etc.
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Hi nightshirt,
Resistance is real and it's already happening, already documented. The thing is, what do you do? Giving up in despair is not an option. Sometimes the PCO treatments don't work because the PCO is not thorough, or because there are other rooms and other apartments in a structure left untreated, or because the person suffering from bedbugs reintroduces them (by, say, opening a bag of stuff after treatment). How do you really know what's really happening with your bedbugs?
After several failed treatments, one can ask the PCO to use a different pesticide (although pesticides in different classes are mostly unavailable); one can use more mechanical methods, like the DE you suggest, steaming, step up the exclusion efforts (caulking, isolation). In truth, these mechanical and exclusion methods should be used in any case, not just after PCO treatments fail. (I can't recommend mechanical and exclusion methods alone because I don't believe that they will work for everyone. At least not yet. When there are thermal treatment trucks making the rounds in our neighborhoods, or cryonite treatments, or whatever, then I'll fly the IPM flag. But that day is not today.)
I can't say I fully understand the issue of resistance, but I think that a) they are able to test for it, that is, to determine bedbugs are susceptible or not, although I'm not sure if such tests are practical but I know they are available; and b) one way that resistance may develop is if bedbugs receive a sub-lethal dose; therefore, PCOs really need to use voluminous quantities of the stuff they are applying and apply it everywhere.
Resistance may develop out of simple mutation and chance. And then there is cross-resistance. A population may be resistant to pesticide A and will therefore easily develop resistance to pesticide B because the biological mechanism is in place. But, again, giving up is not an option. We can't ask our bedbugs how they'd prefer to die. We must try different things.
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nyjammin
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Posts: 664
Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 18:37:31
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Coop: good for those bugs. Die, die, die!!
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willow-the-wisp
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 19:15:27
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exactly gently sweeping some de across a new hardwood floor (protected ewith goggles and mask infant out for the afternoon)--and then getting it all up is easier from a lovley hard-wood floor than say--a rug. And not everyone would want to get it all off the rug compeltely--corners sometimes are left purposfully unvaccumed. Nut wiht little one's ... crawling ... safer to get it all up off there/ restrick kids form the area for a few days maybe--if you really can. Giving the De some timne to work.
plus we have the 3:1 water De ratio going on for a contact spray into cracks and crevises--not outlets, not on bugs ... This illiminates dusat and can leave soe DE in some very tight and otherwise hard to get to places. -
nyjammin
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 19:42:13
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Hopeless: If someone keeps reintroducing bbs into the environment, shouldn't the chemicals laid out by the pco kill the bbs that are reintroduced? Even if, let's say, someone opened a bag? The bb has to cross over the chemicals and die, right? I know that it all depends on how long the bb was reintroduced after the chemical was sprayed. But, let's say, it's a week or 2? Shouldn't the chemicals still be working? Especially if the person is still being treated every 10-14 days?
WTW: How come the ratio is 3:1? Why not 1:1? How did you come up with this ratio? Also, is it like 3oz. water and 1oz. de?
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I'm not sure Jammin. The reason for having the PCO come in 2 week intervals is the eggs. Nothing (pace the Bedlam manufacturer) kills the eggs, we were told, and so the emerging nymphs have to be killed. Which probably means that the pesticides don't last that long, despite the claims of their manufacturers; otherwise, the emerging nymphs, too, would succumb to the pesticides. This is assuming no reintroduction. If there are bedbugs continually reintroduced, then there will be not just more eggs but adults + eggs and the population can once again increase rapidly.
Unless you are prepared to keep everything in bags forever (doesn't 18 months seem like forever?) you should unbag your possessions (but not your clothes) at some point during treatment. After the second treatment? The third? I don't know; you should check with your PCO and follow their advice about when to unbag. But the unbagging date can certainly not be months after your last PCO visit when all is cool and you think you're done.
If you are afraid of unbagging, then you can choose the things that you absolutely need and unbag those, during treatment, and keep other things bagged for the 18 months.
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willow-the-wisp
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 3 2007 23:09:44
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NYJ--nightshirt called and found out diluted 3-1 if it was three parts DE to one part water, it would be more like a paste. That would work too--but not as a spray, all ways DE with water. I feel is only into cracks and crevices. (My 2 cents anyway.) Therefore, the other way around 3 part water to one part (DE 3 oz water--1 oz De) correct exactly as nightshirt said. It still sounds a bit thick to me. I have not tried it at this ration.
(Jammin ... Do not mix the DE paste up with the caulk. Not until the caulk and the second touch up of caulk as per going buggies, post suggests. (Usually caulk is dry like after 24--48 hours .... So let the caulk dry--it will dry! It is like extremely hard rubber, and then you know it is dry enough.) :)Sounds like hard work and hot weather back there??? -
Read Windy City Mike's bed bug diaries (via links in blog) to hear how he unbagged (after second treatment, I think). It worked.
Another thing I would say is who told you to bag everything? Only one PCO I know of says to do that. People are getting the idea from people who use that PCO. But many PCOs will not want you to bag your stuff (except washed clothes) at all. So leaving them for any treatments, for those PCOs, would be a no-no.
Talk to your PCOs... and ask PCOs about bagging (what? how long?) BEFORE you hire them, if you have a choice.
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nyjammin
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Jun 4 2007 7:59:22
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I think I made a mistake, guys. I bagged, like, everything. Paperwork that I frequently go into, toiletries, my childrens toys, boxed games, playstation cds, even stapler and stapler remover, etc. Now, my pco comes on Wednesday. I'm going to ask if I should unbag after they spray.
If they say yes, what do you guys think is the proper procedure for unbagging? Where do I put the stuff after unbagging? I now have things stored in bins: clothes, games, toiletries, etc. The things in the bins are sealed in plastic bags. Do I take everything out of the bags and leave them in the bins with the tops off? Do I just open the bags and leave them in the bags in the bins? Take them outta the bins? Do I open the bins and put de around them?
Thanks!
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I would take stuff out of bags. Even bins, though not airtight, may preserve bed bugs longer than you want to.
I am working on another blog post on this issue (which I have covered in the past)--people seem to be spreading around this idea about bagging (which was one of the first things people told me to do when I was looking for answers) and I don't think it makes sense. Unless you're using a particular PCO who tells everyone to clean, inspect, and bag everything for 18 months.
Somehow some bed bug sufferer got the idea that simply putting stuff in bags was a good prep for all PCO treatment; it isn't, IMHO, and can prolong the agony.
Anyway, I have consulted a few experts and am working on this post. Stay tuned.
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The thing is to minimize clutter. I would open the bags and leave them in the bins.
I don't think you made a mistake, Jammin. You did the best you could with the information you had. Since you were not having treatments, the bagging probably helped you a lot in my opinion. Now that you're getting professional help, ask them what to do.
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My only concern is that they may have more trouble getting out of the bags/boxes if they are inside bags inside bins. (They're said to have more trouble climbing on plastic.) Anyway, yes--ask the PCO.
Also, just to be clear, I wasn't trying to make you feel bad, Jammin, by saying that bagging is a bad idea--but I think people pass around information on the web which is not necessarily helpful, but which someone thought helped them. And it becomes almost mythical. This is an example.
Meanwhile, I am gathering some opinions on this which should help others.
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willow-the-wisp
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Jun 4 2007 9:32:29
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clothing = bagging 100% directly out of the drier ... once the problem abates, say no bites for 6-8 weeks, then you can get a little lax here. Just don’t start leaving coats across beds. I like tho think of the bed as the 1st most important thing to do in an infestation or ensuing infestation= 100% total isolation and the last thing to get lax on. Furniture that is infested also, is like the same as a bed and would fit into the same category. The clothes too, is ongoing, 100% isolation. Those three things are the most important to keep isolated and stay “leery†of.
If you know where the poisons are laid down that have the residual poisons in them: (ask PCO)then that is the best place to un-bag stuff other than stuffed toys and clothes.
example: if the baseboards are "poisoned" (since we know bed bugs are likely to try and use a baseboard for travel or for hiding behind) I'd un-bag, in such a way, so any bb's would have to cross the poisons to get to the baseboards. i.e. walk over the poison. If PCO approved—un-bagging inside a “dry moat†of thinly spread DE sounds more helpful as well, rather than just letting bb's just run--scott-free--out of the bin and into the safety of an untreated sofa (so to speak).
Tossing things into the open has it's merits too, but only at the proper time, as does bagging things to contain the spread of bb’s also have some merits, say during pre PCO prep. Doing that pre PCO visits to help contain and temporarily isolate infested stuff that can't be washed is a good thing--that's my feeling, I self-treated and, basically, this is what I did: I bagged just about everything and that which was not was left to be exposed to poisons or it was washed and or contact sprayed many times over. Same with a vacuum--it is repeated, but when you put a poison down you stop vacuuming for a certain length of time so the poisons can work.
Using tape and or Vaseline and bed encasements are more permanent measures than say are steaming, contact killing and vacuuming and washing with hot, hot water. These latter measures must be done repeatedly. -
nyjammin
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Jun 4 2007 9:59:29
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My bins with all my stuff are in the closets, some are next to the dressers. With my stuff and paperwork, after I open the bags in the bins, should I maybe put de in the bags so the bugs have to cross that to die? Also maybe around the bins. I know de and not drione. I can't keep the bins in one spot because there are too many of them. Is it advisable to keep them in the closests since the closets are usually dark or does that not matter for the situation.
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Jammin, please ask your PCO. (Your idea sounds good to me.) But the important this is, I think you have a great PCO and I was just reading their prep sheet online, and you have to do everything on the prep sheet before they come. According to what I was reading, that means emptying the closets, desks, dressers. Please call them and ask them specific questions about what to do with what. You need to have everything prepared according to their instructions for them to do their protocol. Bedbugger always stresses that you follow your PCO instructions. You are going to be OK. :) Call them! (Today Jammin, so you have time to prepare everything before Wednesday.)
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nyjammin
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Jun 4 2007 10:26:16
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Hopeless, everything is already bagged and out of the drawers. I've been living out of the bins. I didn't know they had a website. I tried to type Horizon or Horizon Pest Control and nothing seems to show up on the web. Did you google that name or somenthing else? Lemme know how you got their prep sheet up. I feel a little embarrassed calling my pco because I already called him like 4x before I hired him and then I asked him the same stupid questions the 5th time. I'll probably get the guts to call him tomorrow or later today. I feel so stupid talking to him. He probably thinks I'm an idiot.
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Jammin, who does he work for? You are his client! Please call right now. Did he not give you a prep sheet? They're supposed to! Please Jammin!
we be jammin, jammin....
Here's the link because I know you're stressed, but you also must call, please, ok? http://www.horizonpest.com/default.asp?Page=Services
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willow-the-wisp
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Jun 4 2007 10:29:46
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I'd rather see you turn the bins on their sides, and if, the PCO say's OK, put some lihtly dusted PALIN DE on the floor, so the bugs will HAVE to cross it too.
They may not be able to walk up the sides of the plastic bins.I had DE in many bins. It is messier to clean up and to have to go thru--than having some on the floor, which is easily wiped up or vacumed up a few days later. Don't forget eggs. So you'd need to do this in 14-16 day incriments to kill off any hatchlings. Twice should be sufficient, but a third time would be the "KICKER" so to speak! personally--I do it every two weeks at least three times for 3-4 days each time. I'd also want to do it when the PCO's poisons are still quite fresh! And this would be ON TOP of the DE he/she said I could use to go along with her/his poisons.
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All these ideas are great, Jammin, but the first thing you have to remember is to ask your PCO.
Ask your PCO for the prep sheet. Follow the instructions. Really, if they don't have a prep sheet, hire someone else. (If you can't hire someone else because it's your landlord's PCO, ask why they don't have a prep sheet; ask to speak to a supervisor. Escalate. Politely. Keep your voice steady. Take deep breaths.)
If you have questions at any point about anything at all, you can ask us, sure, but call your PCO first.
They work for you. They work for you! Really.
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Plus you can get it out of the way simply by beginning the conversation with "As you can imagine, this is very stressful, I just want to go over some details; your prep sheet says...."
Take notes, call again if something is unclear.
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nyjammin
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Jun 4 2007 11:01:40
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I got the prep sheet, thanks nomo. I feel really idiotic that you have the prep sheet and I don't and they are coming to service me not you. WTW: they do come every 10-14 days for I think 3x. But, I will have them keep on coming if I still see more evidence of bbs.
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willow-the-wisp
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Jun 4 2007 11:21:33
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exactly--if you keep up with all your other efforts too--3 times may be enough! You'll know by then--6 weeks later ... and in the seventh week and eight and ninth weeks ... there shuld be NO evidence at all, except dead evidence: died up pooh and dried up blood and dead, dead bugs!
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