Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » General Topics
Had Enough of PCO BS and Handled it Myself! DE is the BEST.
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mike2003
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Apr 25 2010 0:26:42
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I felt compelled to share my personal experience with everyone so that you too can get rid of these bed bugs once and for all!
I live in an apartment of approx 800 sqft, 2 bedroom. Our bedbug problem began in summer of 2008. At first we had no clue what it was, we figured it may be a bad case of mosquito bites. However, when the bites became much more frequent and more common amongst all of us I decided to google away and research. The closest thing I could put my finger on was bed bugs. Anyway, long story short I called in the Pest Control guy. I was charged $285 for the first spray. The guarantee was that if they return we get a 50% off the original price which would bring it down to $142.00. This didn't make any sense to me because I already learned that bed bugs hatch eggs which come out of their eggs in approx 10 days. Nonetheless, I went forward with it.
2 weeks after our the PCO sprayed (or whatever) our place the bites began again. I called the man back in and he was back at our place in no time. We didn't realy bother unpacking everything again as I was pretty sure they'd return. We paid him in advance again and left him to his business.
4 weeks later the biting began again. I called the same man up and he had the audacity to say "I have never seen bed bugs return after the second time I visit the same location. I don't think you guys packed your stuff properly". Obviously he was gone and would never call him again. I went back to google and learned that people have literally moved out, thrown out furniture, clothes, and even tossed carpets into the garbage trying to rid themselves of bed bugs. We are now approx 6 months into the bed bugs infestation with each one of us hoping in the back of our minds they will vanish on their own. We just installed a new carpet a few months prior to the arrival of these bugs and my clothes are super expensive for me to toos them all into hot water and hot dryer!
I started to seek the best of the best PCO and found someone that 'specialized" in bed bugs ONLY. I phoned him one night after midnight waking him up (thats how bad it was) and said whatever he charges I will pay two times the amount if he gets rid of them. he came over first thing in the morning and did a walk-through and said we have bed bugs confirmed, and he can get rid of them. but he wants to come in every 2 weeks 4 times total. So that 4 visits times $300 per visit which cost us $1,200. it worked like a charm.
3 weeks after his last visit the bites began again. I was furious. We were all furious and didn't know what to do. The people we counted on were failing back to back. I had more important things to worry about like my business and my studies. I ignored it for a while. Now we were in summer of 2009. We finally notified the super intendent of the building and he said his guy will get rid of them rest assure as he's been working with these building over 10 yrs now. Long story short, everytime the building's PCO visited us he would pay the super intendent $50 under the table and he himself would be left with $125 per visit. A nice business going on there. I learned this after the 3rd time his "guy" came to our apartment and sprayed. I was sick and tired of all the packing up everytime. it's so tedious and time consuming. I lost expensive clothes due to hot water washing and hot drying. We were desperate. Our next goal was to get rid of the carpet, but it cost us $6,000 to carpet the whole place. This was insane. No PCO could help us. We let it ride out to 2010. Now the bites were severe, I mean in one area we'd have like 15 bites. On our face toes, backs, it was annoying and embarrassing.
I hit google one last time and spent an all nighter viciously searching for clues. I stumbled upon DE (diatomaceous Earth). All i need to know was that it was a) safe and b) the bed bugs just needed to crawl over it. I read how people sprinkled a little around the legs of their beds.....or a little in this corner....or that corner. me? NOWAY. This isn't Disney land where I'm sprinkling here and there with what can terminate bed bugs once and for all. No time for games or to baby anything. I ordered a 50lb bag off the internet for $50. I went to home depot and bout a tiny bottle for $13 of insecticide tha contained DE also, but reason why i bought it was because it was power, and I needed a tool to squirt the powder. I finished the home depot bottle one side of the room and refilled it with my DE I ordered. I moved all the furniture away from the walls and from their original locations. I sent my family out for the day. I vacuumed carefully and covered the tv and stereo. I put my dust mask , gloves, goggles, and baseball cap on. I lightly covered the entire carpet with DE in the entire apartment. I especially got good in the crevices by the baseboards and where the carpet met the walls. Focused on the mattress, the legs, closets, EVERYWHERE. Took the couches apart and dusted it all there. Anywhere that I sprayed too much powder accidently, I spread around with a pain brush. One week later I vacuumed everything (hard to get it all off the carpet, but just a quick vacuum is sufficient for now) and re powdered the entire carpet and floor and mattress and couches again. EVERYHTING. We walked and carried on with our normal lives and the poweder in the main traffic areas clowly dissipated on their own. But when they disisipated in the doorways and around furniture I powdered again. never have we seen or been bit again for 4 weeks straight. I called a carpet cleaner over and paid him double (theyre very cheap and removing all this dust is labour intensive for the poor guy) and he made our carpets look new again. The next day I powdered around ALL of the legs of ALL of the furniture that met the floor. It was impossible for any bug to climb anything or get down from anything without going through DE. it's been almost 5 months now and we are finally bedbug free.
Don't be fooled by people's opinions on DE here, pls. THat it's a good "alternative to prvent them from coming back after PCO gets rid of them". Get everything, do what I did. No need to unpack r pack your lives away, move out, or go through hell like most of have and most have gone through worse. Bed bugs can never ever become immune to DE because it kills them from the outside unlike chemicals killing them from the inside. it's safe, we're living proof of it. I still have nearly the entire bag of the 50lb DE left, so no need to order so much lol. it's cheap and the MOST SAFEST AND EFFECTIVE WAY to rid your bed bugs fast and for sure.
Good luck you u all.
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your host
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Apr 25 2010 1:44:27
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If you're going to use DE be aware of these facts:
There are safer types and unsafe types of DE.
Safer types of DE can be used sparingly and safely or stupidly and dangerously. Even the safe type can harm your lungs if you overapply it and do not use it with caution.
Do your research on DE before trying to use it. I suggest you start not with the post above, but with this FAQ. And realize that it is not a panacea or better than a pest control professional, but simply a tool which can help. It often does so more slowly than other methods. And used incorrectly, you can make a mess of your lungs and your home.
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Apr 25 2010 13:01:25
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Anyone reading this post and considering do-it-yourself treatment with DE should also be aware that if using DE on your own doesn't work and you later want to call in a professional when self-treatment fails, many pest control professionals will not treat residences that have been treated with DE, so not only may you still have bed bugs, but you may have to clean up all the DE before a professional will treat the place.
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spideyjg
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Apr 25 2010 17:22:33
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Remember to send a copy of your post to your doctor when you or your family manifest respiratory issues.
DE is a great tool but this method is a health hazard.
Jim
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Beth
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Apr 25 2010 18:54:30
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so are all of the other pesticides.
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spideyjg
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Apr 25 2010 22:11:29
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Beth - 3 hours ago »
so are all of the other pesticides.All pesticides are reasonably safe used properly and with proper safety gear.
Some have a broader "margin of safety" where slight overapplication/ improper application is not as dangerous as others.
The described DE application is off the charts. Nothing used to such excess would be safe.
Jim
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Apr 26 2010 12:54:44
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Beth,
I know that for people with chemical sensitivities, the safety of chemical pesticides is different than that of the general public.
But it's not true that for *everyone* the chemical pesticides are as unsafe as using DE in the way that the original poster stated.
It is true that the over-application of chemical pesticides is dangerous for everyone.
It is true that for chemically sensitive individuals, even "safe" (i.e. in accordance with MSDS and best professional practices) applications can cause serious health consequences.
But neither of those facts means that all chemical pesticides are dangerous to everyone, and I say this as someone who is the sort of person who shops at Whole Foods, uses a stainless steel water bottle to reduce my exposure to plastic, and puts my food in Pyrex instead of Tupperware.
In a perfect world, I would choose a non-chemical pesticide approach because I figure exposure to chemicals cumulatively is exposure to chemicals that we don't always know the long term effects of.
But when I compare that to the long term effects of living with a bed bug problem and the stress it creates and the risk of exposure to others, for someone who is already healthy and who doesn't already have chemical sensitivity, the chemical pesticides seem like a less harmful possibility than continuing to suffer with bed bugs.
I agree that for chemically sensitive individuals, it's a different ballgame, but I also know that in terms of who is reading the board? Statistically, far more people are not chemical sensitive than are, and trying to turn them away from a treatment that can bring them relief seems cruel given the suffering that they are going through.
Do I wish Vikane and thermal were more widely available and more affordable? Absolutely. But until that's the case, I can't say thing about chemical pesticide treatment that aren't true when it's the only option available to a lot of people just because a it's not a good fit for a small percentage of people.
I can help people educate themselves about how to get a good PMP so I increase the chances that they won't be over-exposed by a bad or unscrupulous pro.
And I can try to help anyone who comes to the boards looking for the whole story to understand that "natural" doesn't always mean "safe" either.
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BronxBitten
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Apr 26 2010 16:50:56
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hi all,
have been pondering after reading a scary article about the monster house bug that is, in real time, evolving from the good ol' bed bug, due to the fact that pesticides are training the new monster bed bug to thrive. . . the more pesticides, the more wise and immune they'll become, just like they did with ddt. whatever you do to mother earth, you also do to your children; the old native american proverb comes to mind after reading a mans scarystory about them falling off his head in the mirror at work, b/c he knew that fumigation etc, served to make a sci-fi bug in his life/building.
I say, that's why bed bugs are here, remember. i like the idea of D.E. i cant wait to get some. the approach of it seems thus far, to be the most logical thing created. that and heat of course. fire sounds so tempting, but i'll not share my firestarter fantasies here. Some (as inMOST) of us don't have money for one treatment of pco after the other. if we use some d.e., even if it is running the risk of "health hazard" such is life. in nyc, and many cities and parts of the world, health hazards abound. put into perspective, it's merely the tossing of a coin, yet again, as to what steps to take here. meanwhile, im slipping into a quiet depression about all this, and am watching "plans" disintegrate before me. but it is the way of the world, right?
it certainly is overwhelming, all this pestilence in our psyches and our homes and our lives, but i know back when bb's were thriving in the 50's and before and after, ppl didnt lose their mind about it as much---perhaps the bugs were less ferocious and determined? perhaps the net has created a monster of its own, breeding its own brand of parasite; though we help each other, its so hard to turn away once your involved in researching and commiserating, that very few of us seem to still be enjoying what we can. we can still breathe and eat and laugh (though usually out of delirium) and see (even if it is only to watch bb's information and lives); perhaps now north america is like the rest of the world with all it's awful, ugly discomforts and parasites, learning the lesson that life can be torn upside down from literally right under our feet (or bed),. i know that chemicals sound like a great idea but very few stories on here attribute their success to pesticides (of the like, 3 success stories ppl have actually had hahahaaaa! oh, have mercy). and even on a personal level, the ppl i know who got rid of them, did it themselves. not sure here but could there then be an even further connection to our consumerism by the buying of pco's service, and the fact that you have to do it again and again and again? spending desperately again and again and again--with no hope, no success and more mania? where do we draw the line, my lord, my people, where?
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spideyjg
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Apr 26 2010 18:53:11
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Here, put this on it may help. Don't google without protection.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/spideyjg/smilies/afdbhead.jpg
Jim
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Apr 26 2010 19:20:45
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Bronx Bitten,
The website you're linking to is a prime example of the idea that not everything posted on the internet is scientifically--or even logically--sound.
The arguments in that web site have been debunked step by step before. Not least of which is that pesticide resistant bed bugs do exist, but you don't see one generation develop resistance like that. And even pyrethrin resistant bugs can be beaten with chemical pesticides, Vikane, and/or thermal. Most good PMP use a combination of approaches; that's kind of the definition of integrated pest management. DE alone generally won't take care of an infestation, and when used improperly it can present significant health hazards of its own. There are plenty of naturally occurring substances (like digitalis or arsenic) that although natural can be harmful to humans. There are plenty of man made substances that aren't harmful to humans. In either case, it's whether they're being used safely that makes the difference. Heck, ingesting too much water too fast can kill you.
If you choose not to believe those debunkings, I would say more power to you, but do remember that self-treated infestations tend to get more entrenched and harder to treat, meaning that the consumerism you rail against will only be upped when you end up having to hire a PMP to perform a treatment that costs more and requires more repeat visits than if you'd had a good pro in from the get go.
Also keep in mind that reading the boards here you're seeing a sample selection bias. people with hard to treat or entrenched infestations are over-represented here as most people who get a good pro out and go through two treatments don't hang around and post repeatedly.
I say that as someone who did hire a PMP who treated my apartment once with thermal and got rid of an infestation I'd had for several months in an apartment that was pretty hard to treat.
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cilecto
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Apr 26 2010 19:22:11
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> i like the idea of D.E. i cant wait to get some. the approach of it seems thus far, to be the most logical thing created. that and heat of course.
Bronx, being that it's your own house, my uneducated opinion would have gravitated to thermal. Buggy in SoCal is a big fan and could talk you through it. The two big complications are that it is rarer in metro NY than LA, so likely to be more expensive (as things often are in NYC). The other is your neighbors' situation being not under control reduce the chance for success.
Considering your neighbors and the risk of reinfestation, you'll probably end up with some kind of powder, likely some silica variant (DE is one).
If you're considering DE, read the FAQ and consider.
- Not a panacea, needs to be done as part of an integrated program (heating items, scrubbing, vacuuming, caulking)
- The safety considerations. And yes, I empathize with your point that city life is full of hazards, but still, be as careful as you can be.
- Properly done, DE is applied conservatively and almost undetectable, it's been compared to applying blush, or a surface that hasn't been dusted
- You can choose between plain DE and DE with insecticide mixed in. I'd go with plain. More options on how/where to apply and less chance if repellance or irritation. Also, the efficacy of the insecticide is debatable.
- The issue that PCOs might not treat your place after you apply. Not sure how prevalent this is or if it's "fear, uncertainty, doubt" spread by the industry. What would a pro do if a PRO had previously applied a product with silica???I once bought DE from dirtworks.net in Vermont. Friendly, a little spacey on the customer service, otherwise no complaints.
And finally. Whatever you do, evaluate your options, make a plan, line up your allies and soldiers and weapons, then mobilize. You are fighting a war, not a street fight.
May the force be with you.
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BronxBitten
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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Apr 27 2010 22:06:02
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thanks spidey, buggy and cilecto, all good points to keep me sane and logical here. just don't know if we have the funds for pco and think my grandmother is slightly in denial, though i sympathize with her, i just don't know how to look at this. she's all about "look we lived with them when i was little and we got rid of them. what are u supposed to do live in a bubble forever?" granted the fact that i am so social and not socializing is hurting my heart immensely, especially since the summer time is my favorite time and this summer will likely revolve around insects, and not the ones im used to. . .
however you said what i needed to hear, buggyinsocal, b/c i forget that the people who are posting are posting in the depths of their misery---and so---being that i am in that place somewhat right now, i can only resonate with it. i need an army, is all im saying. dont know how little 78 year old already arthritic and prone to depression and anxiety grandma and i can do the entire house-cleaning-bagging-disposing on our own. . . just seems like a gigantic task beyond tasks. sure, people can do so much and anything is possible, but i see it as taking up time we could be using. whats up with the bb swat teams? we need those. people who come in in like, haz-mat suits to help you clean up and clean out. all i know is i wanna do away with this crap and move the bluck up out this house, in as sterile a way as possible. and if i take them to my "new" space, so be it. i'll just make sure that space is small, sleep on an air mattress and have limited belongings, i never ever again in my life want to be BOUND to any house. i said it as a child and if this ain't proof in the karmic pudding, i don't know what is!!!!!!!
again, spidey--hilarious. where'd you find that brain condom?
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meremortal
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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Apr 28 2010 21:36:34
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Please be careful. We are experiencing the ramifications of using DE that was poorly labelled (2007). At the time, the PCO left us a bottle of "dust" to "sprinkle around". Now one of our pets has cancer and I am being tested for respiratory problems.
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 3 years ago
Thu Apr 29 2010 12:29:52
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BronxBitten,
Well, if you're a social person, remember that your friends and extended family can become a social support throughout this. When I had bed bugs, I had a couple of close friends who came over and helped me with the prep because I was on a short time line and afraid I couldn't do it all before the PMP visit.
As long as your friends are willing to follow certain protocols (wear clothes /shoes in your place that they immediately change out of and bag when they get home, and then assume that those clothes/shoes are infested and treat them to debug them without exposing anything else to them. Make sure that any other items like purses or bags that they bring "into" your home are kept inside sealed plastic ziplock style bags.) they can still come over and help.
Bed bugs are a very isolating experience for sure. But sometimes in our own panic at "Oh my God, where did they come from, they're everywhere, and if someone with bed bugs sneezes on me, I'll get them for sure," we isolate more than we need to. It's next to impossible to see that when you're in the throes of dealing with an infestation. And sadly, there aren't a lot of people who get rid of their infestations and who then stick around on the boards for a long time after the bugs are gone, so you get a lot more people in the first panicky, stressed out stage and a lot of people with chronic, difficult to treat problems. (It's the same problem with RateMyProfessor.com, actually. Only students who really love and/or really hate profs take the time to comment there. Or students who judge profs by how hot they are to look at or how easy their classes are. Students who want tough professors who make them work aren't as inclined to use the site. Students who feel only so so about a class don't bother to rate the prof. Social scientists and other people who do quantitative research talk about it as a sample selection bias. If you want to study peoples' attitudes about buying local produce, but you only interview people at a farmers market and not the people who buy their produce at Wal-Mart, you're not going to get a good cross-section of everyone's opinions because you built in a bias at the outset because people who prefer local produce and are willing to schlep to a local farmers market are already a specific subgroup of people. The number of people who stopped by the open air market because it was on the way home and more convenient for their commute is always going to be lower than the first type.)
It may make you feel better to reread the FAQ on what to do if you find bed bugs somewhere you're staying while traveling. The protocols outlined there can be used for friends who visit your home--either to help with prep or just to give you a taste of a normal social life.
Hang in there.
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BronxBitten
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Posted 3 years ago
Thu Apr 29 2010 22:56:06
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I BOW TO YOU!!!! SUCH GOOD ADVICE. EXACTLY WHAT MY FRIENDS HAVE BEEN TELLING ME ALL ALONG, to just get a better scope about whats going on in the forums. freaked out b/c i was alone but now the Grandmama is returning, and though this sucks for her to have to deal with majorly ,she decided to keep the house for this long knowing in her gut we should have left a long time ago, so now, we have to deal with that.
in any case, my friends are actually super supportive and i have a legion of spiritual warriors that give me priceless wisdom and strength. it all came at an odd time but often time these critters rear themselves during our most vulnerable phases (not ironic to me) and we have to learn the strength within is boundless. easier said than done but humans have lived through far worse and managed to tell a story in the end. guess i was more thrown off by the AMOUNT of work we have to do in this house and of course, my old escapist tendencies were trying their hardest to take over. saying things like "whats the point" "just burn everything and leave" "maybe if you drink something you can handle this better" "keep sleeping you deserve it enjoy it while you don't get bitten" and so on. . . really fatalistic and NOT connected to the direction i am intent on moving in while all these inward revolutions have just started for me. in any case, you are pointing out much needed truths and the fact is i needed to hear it from YOU and not a fam member or friend---b/c someone from HERE stating it feels much more relevant haha!!!
on that note, do you think i should still meet up with friends? i mean meeting at a public place is probably best bet right? i have this vision of sitting across from them at a table. its forcing me to be the opposite of what i am. im a super affectionate, expressive, physical person and behaving this way "lets not touch/shake hands/hug" etc feels ridiculous. . . i can't bear it.
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LavenderLove05
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun May 2 2010 1:42:23
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I know what you mean...I feel like I have a disease that they can contract just by hanging out with me. My friends are super cool about it though...One of them actually had BB a few years back but caught it really early and treated it fast and has been BB free for a few years now. She understands my pain and is just careful.
I am to the point though that when I know for sure I do not have BB after I move that I will not want people to come over for fear that they will bring BB to my home. I also do not want to sleep anywhere but home. I was planning a trip to Disney (and im not going to actually let BB stop me from going) but I am scared to stay at the hotel. I am going to go prepared for battle every time I go on vacation or stay at a friends house or what not.
I hate this!
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BronxBitten
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon May 10 2010 23:27:04
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lavender love, i dont know yet what the exterminators will say when they come to my house--i don't know what the future holds. bugs are bugs man, you know. we can't give in to letting them take over, so to speak but we DO have to surrender to the fact that we have to live our lives in joy. when they were rampant back whenever they were, people lived their lives. you just have to. this hyper awareness we have on the net is great on one hand and on the other, sometimes serves to make us feel insane. i want to travel the world. i'll be a huge risk to myself and others. im a yogi. i like living in communities. im a "suggestible" being. but knowing this has in fact, made me want to travel more. knowing that the whole planet is going through it on some level has given me some comfort. enjoy your trip to disney. take a few things, keep it simple. thats what these little bastids are here to remind us to do. simple simple simple. not very easy for me especially--but we learn. we are capable of so much. surely tackling this and keeping the bigger picture in mind will be something you can create. maybe just bring one carry on, of a bed bug -unfriendly material and check the rooms carefully and do your best. thats all you can.
bless!
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LavenderLove05
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Posted 3 years ago
Tue May 11 2010 0:35:46
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The worst part of this all is the paranoia. My exterminator did an inspection and couldn't find any signs of an infestation but I am already packed for my move so I had shifted everything in my apartment already, but they weren't in my furniture or bed. He sprayed. For me though my paranoia is driving me nuts. The not knowing if I have them in my bags or if I really am just getting strays from a neighbor. Either way I'm taking all precautions.
Each nights sleep is getting easier. Moving day is coming up in a little over a week. Looking forward to treating my stuff and settling into my home...and...GOING TO DISNEY THIS SUMMER!!!
:) I am driving distance so I won't be flying to Disney. At least I won't have to worry about getting bugs on the flight! Ekk...I have no idea how people lived with them in the past when they were rampant! We are heading right back to that though. More and more people I know have them or have had them over the last 5 years or so.
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laurae
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun May 16 2010 23:12:22
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I have used DE (JT Eaton Kills Bed Bugs Powder) myself in my room to get into holes in my walls and into the radiator and I think it has really helped (in addition to a regular routine of IGR in cracks and crevices, and Bedlam on the mattress). But I want to point out that I am an idiot. Even with the special duster sprayer thing, when you spray this stuff, it poofs out and up into the air. I was wearing a mask but I'm sure I still inhaled some. And as for the radiator, well, I thought the heat wouldn't be going on again til next Fall some time, but I was wrong about that. I don't control the heat, and it's gone on a few times since I put the powder in it. So yeah. Um. Color me poisoned. I just wanted to post and say that I think the powder works really well, but I don't encourage others to be as wreckless as I have been. Try to find a PCO who uses the powder as a major part of his attack plan, or, if you want to DIY, get a really good quality mask and be super careful! And please don't even try it if you have asthma or chronic bronchitis or something of that nature. I don't want anyone getting hurt, ok?
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BBGen0cide
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Sep 16 2010 6:02:57
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After reading tons of bad things about pcos, in denver, and here, when people see, call a pco, i'm like really? really? All they do is leave residual pesticides that the bugs have to walk through. DE is like that, and is not a nerve toxin, yes its bad on the lungs, but with masks, and putting it in the right places and in the right doses, it can be as good as any bs a PCO will use with out the horrid toxicity.
Honestly, I fear the chemicals more than DE being breathed in, all of them are bad. DE is cheap.
I think in all the success stories, it was hard work, know how, de, and steamers that got the job done.
The truth is, many pcos are as bad as dumb dyi people, so I think if you are smart, can read, and follow the tricks that work, you wont need a pco if you have the time to be diligent and willing to do all the work and get what you need.
just my opinion.
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Richard56
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Sep 16 2010 10:16:55
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Not sure how prevalent this is or if it's "fear, uncertainty, doubt" spread by the industry. What would a pro do if a PRO had previously applied a product with silica???
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Exactly.A number of PCO's I talked to were quite candid how they had solved a bed bug problem after three or four failed treatments by other PCO's. So why wouldn't they treat after a homeowner applied DE, since many PCO's use DE as at least part of their integrated plan? But should this be a consideration with a particular PCO (a homeowner use DE) , unlike chemicals, DE can be vacuumed away.
As to DE not working instantly, from what I've read here, a couple of weeks is not a very long time compared to the time the majority of posters here that have struggled with the problem.
The health hazard issue is another thing, and as a dust DE should be applied with proper precautions including the appropriate respirator. But assuming it is applied properly, it's unclear to me exactly how dangerous DE is even if applied as liberally as the poster above did. And my understanding is that the label does permit this type of application. And we also have to understand that the alternative is often chemical treatment which can also have a downside, and I'm not talking application here, but the potential residual effect on some individuals.
Personally, I did not apply DE as liberally as the poster, but I did use it on some carpeted areas (and around bed posts) as opposed to solely cracks and crevices. Again, this does not appear to be off label with DE.
I am somewhat allergic to dust (eyes tear), and yes, I did have that reaction after application but only to the extent that I always have it when for example vacuuming the apartment which can throw dust into the air.
Would I throw DE around by the handful like some of the DE web sites suggest, no way! But I do think that with proper application DE is a viable option and don't think that people should be scared away from DE based on statements such like some PCO 's will not touch you in the future if you use it. Hey, if you do end up in that situation, and find a PCO like that -- then call another -- because many good PCO's will come and treat even if you used DE in the past.
Richard
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WGarrow
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Sep 16 2010 11:46:15
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We have had nightmares with PCOs who have treated our mom's tiny studio apartment. We followed their instructions(dumped the bed, encased the new one, bagged everything up, and so on).
Terminix treated ONE time and declared the bugs eradicated. That wasn't the case. They blamed the family for bringing the bugs back in and made another treatment. Again, they said the bugs were eradicated. And they weren't.
We called Ace next. An inspector and I spent the better part of an hour searching every inch of the room and we came up with two living nymphs. So we paid Ace $150 each for three more treatments. Remember, this is a tiny one room studio and only the bed and couch area were affected. Well anyway, Ace treated 3 times and about 10 days AFTER the final treatment, I found 10-12 bugs without even looking hard. The problem was worse than before they started.
I feel my only options at this point are an expensive thermal treatment or to do it myself and hope to at least keep the bugs at bay if not eradicate them completely which I now feel is impossible.
Note: The management of the assisted-living facility says the adjacent apartments were inspected and had no bed bugs. I heard yesterday however, that they ARE showing up in other apartments in the facility. There's over 250 units, and we live in hard hit Cincinnati, so I knew mom could not be the only case there.
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Sep 16 2010 12:33:05
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Note: The management of the assisted-living facility says the adjacent apartments were inspected and had no bed bugs. I heard yesterday however, that they ARE showing up in other apartments in the facility.
First of all, I just wanted to say that it sucks that you're going through this.
Secondly, you will clearly have a better read on the situation--if the facility it being run by people who are overwhelmed and under-resourced, or if they're just badly informed, or if they are maliciously trying to take the cheap way out and playing with semantics, but, I figure it's worth raising anyway.
when they say adjacent, are they including all units around an infested unit that might be providing access for migrating bugs?
I mean, I can see several scenarios in which a management group would define adjacent only as the units next door. We know that it seems slightly more likely, in fact, for bed bugs to migrate vertically from unit to unit than horizontally.
And if the units share ducts or piping or if the units are clustered around a ventilation shaft, definitions of adjacent may be more expansive than the management thinks.
Again, I'm not suggesting that you haven't thought of this, and the PCO blaming you for reinfesting (because, well, you seem pretty darned informed to me, so I find that hard to believe)is just unconscionable, but if you haven't thought about trying to find out exactly what management means by adjacent, it might be worth investigating.
I live in a very small multi-unit building, and we are all long term tenants who are friendly and know each other well, so I was very lucky that everybody cooperated when it came to inspection. But I also think the construction of my building make it less likely the bugs would migrate. (For example, each unit has its own hot water heater that is housed in each unit. I'm no expert on construction, but it seems that buildings created that way would have fewer routes of shared access from a communal laundry room (which we also don't have) than one with one or two large heaters in the basement. But what I've read here suggests that how easy it is for the bugs to migrate from one place to another within a multi-unit building has a lot to do with the construction specifics of that particular building. It's entirely possible that that is a factor in your mom's case.
Hang in there.
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Damname
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Sep 17 2010 3:14:50
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im not convinced that DE works all that well. especially since i killed 10+ BBs tonight covered in DE and moving around just fine. they crawl right through the DE and get to your bed and bite ya anyway. after spreading the DE and thinking i was rid of them for about a moth all the sudden i found BBs in multiples of 10 tonight. very aggravated.
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Richard56
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Sep 17 2010 8:22:16
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im not convinced that DE works all that well. especially since i killed 10+ BBs tonight covered in DE and moving around just fine.
---------------------What type/brand of DE did you use? Jeff White at Bed Bug TV suggests that not all brands of DE work with bed bugs. The one he uses in his video and the one I've seen sold for Bed Bugs is called MotherEarthD and is readily available on the web. Also, DE is not an instant kill and can take a week or so to do it's job. One or the other of these facts may account for what you're experiencing.
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spideyjg
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Sep 17 2010 9:30:04
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Pool grade DE doesn't work well, and DE is no instant kill. It can take up to 10 days for them to die.
Jim
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nycyn
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Sep 24 2010 5:31:50
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spideyjg - 6 days ago »
Pool grade DE doesn't work well, and DE is no instant kill. It can take up to 10 days for them to die.
JimPool grade DE is absolutely the WRONG DE.
I have OCD. If I research horses I'm still beating them after their entire life span, burial and decomposition. That being said 100 lbs of Perma-guard Food-grade DE ("Fossil Shell Powder') is on it's way. And as another example of my making my own ground horsemeat--I'll say again: After my time at the WTC pile--this 'dirt' is a cakewalk. (Absolutely wear a mask and goggles and do serious homework.)
Oh, to the original OP? All I logged in to say was Thanks! I got distracted. I have ADD also.
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spideyjg
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Sep 24 2010 9:28:49
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nycyn - 3 hours ago »
spideyjg - 6 days ago »
Pool grade DE doesn't work well, and DE is no instant kill. It can take up to 10 days for them to die.
JimPool grade DE is absolutely the WRONG DE.
Yes it is the wrong kind for not only the higher hazard to health but for its lousy bug killing ability.
Seems I need a macro to post a 15 page novella every time DE comes up with triple cross referenced facts anymore.
Jim
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Beth
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Sep 24 2010 10:10:17
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damname:
you have to reapply DE every month or so. It gets disturbed by traffic, wind, etc. In fact, I'd reapply more often, and in the beginning, apply and then vacuum up within a few days, then reapply.
After applying DE to the cracks in my bedframe, the bugs are once again out of my bed in just 4 days time. It does take them a bit to die.
Amy
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nycyn
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Sep 24 2010 18:22:34
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spideyjg - 8 hours ago »
nycyn - 3 hours ago »
spideyjg - 6 days ago »
Pool grade DE doesn't work well, and DE is no instant kill. It can take up to 10 days for them to die.
JimPool grade DE is absolutely the WRONG DE.
Yes it is the wrong kind for not only the higher hazard to health but for its lousy bug killing ability.
Seems I need a macro to post a 15 page novella every time DE comes up with triple cross referenced facts anymore.
JimSo you're saying we should get together and write the book?
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nycyn
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Sep 24 2010 18:24:41
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Beth - 8 hours ago »
damname:
you have to reapply DE every month or so. It gets disturbed by traffic, wind, etc. In fact, I'd reapply more often, and in the beginning, apply and then vacuum up within a few days, then reapply.
After applying DE to the cracks in my bedframe, the bugs are once again out of my bed in just 4 days time. It does take them a bit to die.
AmyI have a feeling I'll never be able to wear black again.
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