Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Detection / Identification of bed bugs
Great forum- could you advise on bedbug vs swallow bug [ID needed]
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Jun 8 2012 16:27:59
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This is a great forum.
And I guess most people would be a newbie if they did not have bug infestations.
Background:10 yr old steel frame stucco/drywall house.
No carpet (some rugs), concrete slab.
In the middle of a ranch in sw NM (no neighboring houses).
1 or 2 outside trips a year, 1 a year hotel stay, the rest with people who have not had bb problems.
Bites last year for a time (i have allergic reaction to most bites so no question) that were not spider, mosquito, kissing bug (we have them all). Checked online and searched bed for bedbugs- no sign.
This year, a couple more bites in May- no sign.
This Thursday, M got back from here annual business trip, two nights in hotel in Denver.
Sitting on the couch (I usually sit on another chair) about 7pm, she felt bugs and bites.
Suddenly we see about 8 or 10 bugs that look like bedbugs on the couch (leather) crawling around.
Closer exam they are more of a grey than reddish brown color.
Tore off bottom fabric, vacuumed with shopvac inside and out with crevice tool using old nylon kneehigh for a filter.
Got three live bugs. Very few black fecal spots or shedding debris anywhere.
Every year we have about 50-60 swallow nests on the house. Cliff swallows. Sometimes house sparrows take over the nests or reuse them. These are high under the eaves with no porch, if they fall or I knock them down when the swallows leave, they hit the natural ground.Could these be swallow bugs?
Any help appreciated.
Tom -
mindoverbbs
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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Jun 8 2012 17:51:12
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Tom,
Can you get a clear, close-up photo and post it for the experts to ID? For this level of ID you need Loubugs or Effeci to weigh in. To do this level of differentiation, the higher resolution on the photos, the better. I suspect multiple shots fron different angles help as well.
Good luck. I hope you get it sorted soon.
-Mindover -
tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Jun 8 2012 18:26:34
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Have been trying with a little nikon coolpix.
Try some more.
Gracias -
tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 12:03:26
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Here are pics of two bugs vacuumed off the ceiling at 8:30 this morning.
Probably ten on the ceiling. Teo of the large bug. HELP
Pulled sheets and mattress cover, no sign of bugs on bed.
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 13:16:20
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The first image looks odd to me. The lines are not going in the right direction. Compare with the second image.
As for whether the second image is a bed bug or swallow bug, can you get a closer closeup of the second bug? Or another in-tact bug, since it sounds like you vacuumed that one up? When discerning between bed bugs and swallow bugs (or bat bugs, for that matter), the more detail, the better.
Are you using the macro setting?
These tips might help.
As Mindover said, the experts are the ones to discern if this is a bed bug or closely related species like swallow bug.
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 13:42:18
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I have some live ones (nylon sock filter on shopvac hose) and will get more pics.
Found 4 more on the walls at 11 am.
Thank you!!!!!!
Tom -
your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 13:43:30
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Great -- I have alerted Lou Sorkin to this thread, and he will likely be coming by soon to have a look.
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 15:21:19
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I finally have a good pic taken on a wall where they have been on the ceiling and walls today (never saw before) at 1:15pm.
This is another bug of the other bug top view
Using a kneehigh nylon on all vacuuming and incinerating with propane torch.
Have ordered the correct DE.
Thank you!
Tom -
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 18:00:16
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The "other bug" is a pigeon tick (Argas reflexus)
The other pic is surely a bug of family Cimicidae, but can't say the species from the pic. -
your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 18:09:56
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Thanks, EffiCi!
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 18:12:13
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If you can get an even closer macro shot of the cimicidae, it may help with the ID. It's all about the hairs and antennae, from what I can gather, so you have to be able to see those.
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 18:30:49
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Have neighbor with a high quality microscope and I have some live specimens to view tomorrow.
Think I am looking for hairs on the external perimeter of the body?
Please give me some things to pinpoint for identification.Do not know if they have photo capability on microscope, but one has a high end digital, so that might work for higher magnification picture.
Since we are literally in the middle of nowhere with no close birds except nesting swallows, can the pigeon ticks be from the swallows?
Many thanks to you all.
Tom -
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 9 2012 20:33:30
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Basically, the clearest closeup you can get is going to help people qualified to make the ID. I think the hairs and antennae are key details, but try to get the whole bug, just closer up.
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 11:05:56
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Neighbor not available til Monday.
I think that is the closest I can get with my Coolpix.Once again, about ten on the ceiling, couple on the walls this morning in bright sunlight.
Edit- bedroom ceiling where we sleep. No bites last night while in bed. No sign of bugs on mattress or box spring.They just hang out and move around slowly (although they can move pretty fast!).
I thought bedbugs hid during the day?
Do swallow bugs have different behavior?
Thanks!!
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mindoverbbs
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 13:00:59
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It seems like the coolpix should be capable of getting a suitable image if the macro setting is used and you have the camera set to shoot at the highest possible resolution. I'm not sure whether the new embed feature renders at a max size of X for or whether it renders at the original size regardless of how large it is.
Nobugs, do you happen to know?
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 13:37:33
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Tried again, use macro, 4000x3000 resolution, open in photoshop, crop, upload at 300 pixels/inch.
Example
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 13:40:13
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This is the same but adjusted autolevels:
Thanks
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 15:38:33
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That looks really different from the first image here:
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 16:07:22
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Looks like a tick and a cimicidae but we need a better photo.
Also, and this may be tough to do: your cimicid appears to be covered in dirt/dust/debris. Perhaps, using a fine brush (like "borrow" one from your wife's/girfriend's make up kit) try to brusch it off or maybe wash with alchohol so we can see it better.
We need a dorsal (back side) and ventral (under side) view to see what it is for sure.
Hope this helps ! paul b.
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rs1971
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 16:45:49
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P Bello - 36 minutes ago »
(like "borrow" one from your wife's/girfriend's make up kit)LOL. This is definitely a task for when she is *nowhere* in the vacinity and afterwards I would file it under 'things she never needs to know about.'
-rs1971
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 16:55:42
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OK, did two more top with a magnifying glass in front of lens.
I need to do one on underside?
Definitely large bug is tick.
No dust on these, that is how they look.
Collected live from the wall.
Same bug, different back ground and color contrast adjustments.
I don't think she would mind. Have the couch outside with clear plastic covering. 135F, 120F for 5 hours (sw New Mexico, plenty of sun!)
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 17:32:44
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Also researched that cliff swallows are a primary host for pigeon tick argas reflexus (thanks EFFiCi) in western North America .
Tick was on the ceiling with bugs the first morning I vacuumed.
Thanks. -
oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 18:22:51
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In my opinion they are swallow bugs (Oeciacus vicarius). Too hairy to be bed bugs.
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 19:22:02
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I hope so too.
The evidence points that way with the cliff swallow population and the argas.
I was thinking of using the DE treatment.
Any thoughts?My wife and I want to express our gratitude to everyone for their help.
Our understanding and sympathy to all with any of these bug problems.
Thanks. -
your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 19:58:07
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rs1971 - 3 hours ago »
P Bello - 36 minutes ago »
(like "borrow" one from your wife's/girfriend's make up kit)LOL. This is definitely a task for when she is *nowhere* in the vacinity and afterwards I would file it under 'things she never needs to know about.'
Ha! I know you're probably joking but...
Speaking as one of the ladies and for what it's worth, I would not borrow and return such an item. Yeuch! What if she's allergic to cimicidae? And, just, ewwwww!
(Cue the ubiquitous "Nobugs is a chick!?!" responses...)
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tom42nm
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 20:21:37
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LOL. This is definitely a task for when she is *nowhere* in the vacinity and afterwards I would file it under 'things she never needs to know about.'
Ha! I know you're probably joking but...
Speaking as one of the ladies and for what it's worth, I would not borrow and return such an item. Yeuch! What if she's allergic to cimicidae? And, just, ewwwww!
(Cue the ubiquitous "Nobugs is a chick!?!" responses...)We were wondering how to hold them still long enough for the "comb out".
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theyareoutthere
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 10 2012 21:54:46
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I had the same question on live bugs...I'd even be afraid to open the bag to throw alcohol in. I've heard they are fast.
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 11 2012 4:50:55
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I've heard they are fast.
They're fast runner in case of need, but not on smooth plastic or glass surfaces...
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loubugs
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 11 2012 6:25:13
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Sorry, haven't been on the board for a few days and missed the postings here. Yes, the tick definitely is a species of argasid and could be the species that EffeCi noted. The cimicid could be the species also noted. Not Cimex lectularius, the common bed bug, anyway. I'm not sure if the host bird(s) were identified or not. I can always look at the specimens if they are sent. This is a good educational lesson in differentiating soft ticks from bed bugs.
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tom42nm
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Posted 12 months ago
Wed Jun 20 2012 14:31:47
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Thought to wait before updatings.
Loubugs, we have 50 cliff swallow nests on the house and have had every year for the past 7.
We like them because they eat the bugs that emanate from our 1-7 acre irrigation pond (sw NM, depends on rain and spring output).
I am pretty sure that the tick is argas cooleyi renamed in the early sixties I think and common host is cliff swallow.
I also think that the bug is Oeciacus vicarius.
For the past two years more poor flying fledglings have left the nest early (like now, June). Studies from the past (located on the internet) have shown that they can be driven from the nests by infestations of both argas cooleyi and Oeciacus vicarius.History:
For the past couple years, weird bites (know kissing bug and spiders) that looked like bb bites, primarily at night in bed. Few and far between.2 years ago looked at this site and pulled bed apart- no sign of anything and the bites went away.
This year beginning June, M was bitten several times in the evening while sitting on the couch.
Found one and crushed it, noting the odor.
This happened for several nights.
Pulled the couch apart and found some (6) excrement stains and nothing else.
Vacuumed using a kneehigh filter and got 5 live bugs.
Then started to see them on the ceiling of the bed room and some on the walls of the br and lr where the couch is. Vacuumed 10 a day (they were out on the walls and ceiling in the day).
No more ticks.Put couch outside with a clear plastic covering and monitored temps.
Can't guarantee all couch all the time above 120, but 118 to 135 most places.
Moved back inside and found 1 or 2 evening.
Got DE last Sat and dusted couch.
Dusted wall to floor joint (no molding).
Used a large plastic syringe (1" bore by 5 inches long) with no needle ( available where horse/livestock supplies are sold). Puffed it with the syringe (small quantity, light touch on the plunger and then brushed with a cheap tan bristle paint brush (the cheapies available everywhere).Only did the lr where the couch is.
Last Sat.
Still had one or two bugs until yesterday- none.
Still have them on the br ceiling and walls, vacuum with nylon filter am and pm.
Next step is de bedroom wall/floor joint.
These are cliff swallows. Note the roundtube opening. Barn swallows are half open mud nests.
I would appreciate sending off specimens Loubugs- where and how? Please let me know.
And, how do I treat the intact nests after the swallows leave?
My thoughts- dust with sevin inside nests after swallows leave in early fall.
Knock down and burn in Feb. (cold).
Will keep posting as the saga continues.
Tom -
loubugs
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Posted 12 months ago
Wed Jun 20 2012 16:10:28
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You can send the bugs to me. I like the swallow nests picture. The overall shape of the bugs look like swallow bugs, body vestiture, etc. They don't look like the common bed bug at all. I'll PM my address.
You'd be able to collect bugs from there before burning
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tom42nm
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Posted 12 months ago
Thu Jun 21 2012 8:54:32
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You can send the bugs to me. I like the swallow nests picture. The overall shape of the bugs look like swallow bugs, body vestiture, etc. They don't look like the common bed bug at all. I'll PM my address.
You'd be able to collect bugs from there before burning
Have several ready to go- see three or six on the ceiling every day.Wait a minute--- Nobugs is a GIRL?
Tom -
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Posted 12 months ago
Thu Jun 21 2012 10:08:02
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tom42nm - 1 hour ago »
Wait a minute--- Nobugs is a GIRL?
And that, folks, what we call a delayed reaction!
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tom42nm
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Posted 12 months ago
Fri Jun 22 2012 20:11:24
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As M says girls rule boys drool.
Or is that cats and dogs.
Or something.
Thanks for your time here. Really appreciated by us.
Tom -
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 24 2012 13:52:28
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Hi folks,
Haven't been around for a while, and didn't see this post.
To me that 'other' bug looks much more like a bat tick than a pigeon tick (Argas vespertilionis).
I have specimens of A. vespertilionis in the lab which look identical. If you google it, you will see that the bat tick is flat with a round body, while the pigeon tick is elongated.
If I'm right then you probably have bats in the roof, which means the cimicid bugs could also be a species of bat bug rather than swallow bug (e.g. Cimex pilosellus).
Cheers,
R
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loubugs
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 24 2012 15:42:30
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Images of the bat tick have a circular body while the pigeon tick is teardrop-shaped with the front end narrow and the image of the one in this post is not circular, but teardrop shaped. I've not kept any in the lab, and, unfortunately, haven't had any live bird or bat bugs to raise, either.
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Koebner
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Posted 11 months ago
Mon Jun 25 2012 7:55:02
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For future reference, you can buy plastic swallow nest boxes. These can be installed where the natural nests now are & can be treated annually with nothing more than boiling water to make them safe homes for future broods. That way you get to live without the bug problem & the birds get to rear their young with greater chances of success.
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tom42nm
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Posted 11 months ago
Tue Jun 26 2012 17:41:59
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No bats in the physical structure of the house ( no attic cavities, stucco).
So I am still going with the swallow bugs.
At any rate, no more than three ticks (two dead) found in the beginning of the bug wars and none since.
DE on day 9, have not dusted everywhere, slowly enlarging area from couches, to rug, to wall floor crevices.
Less on the br ceiling (no de in the bedroom) every day.
Fingers crossed and doing the rugs (not carpet) next.
Still vacuuming with nylon footie filters and burning with a propane torch (gleefully). -
bittenbitter
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Posted 8 months ago
Wed Oct 17 2012 3:10:26
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Good idea to go with the swallow bugs. The evidence is overwhelming. Besides, in some pics I've seen of bat bugs they have much longer legs and narrower heads.
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