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Frozen Bed Bugs versus Frozen Nymphs Questions for Experts Please

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  1. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Mar 24 2013 15:27:07
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    Dear Awesome Experts (please don’t make me name you all because I will),

    We have a bedbugger panicking because she thinks there might be bed bugs and/or nymphs in her backyard since November and she is worried that they have been frozen, will now thaw and make their way back into her house.

    I know I have read on here that it has been some of your personal experiences that you have indeed actually frozen bed bugs, thawed them and they revived.

    Can you please give some input into:

    1. How long are you either personally aware, or have heard from research, that a bed bug can be frozen, thaw and live?

    2. Nymphs are not “as hearty” as bed bugs, right?

    3. Do you know, or can you estimate, how long a nymph can be frozen, thaw and live?

    4. How long can a nymph live without a meal?

    This particular bedbugger believes the bed bugs and/or nymphs have been frozen almost four months.

    Any input would be GREATLY appreciated to ease the current panic!!!!

    (Oh, and P.S. - said bug bugs/nymphs would not have been on any mattress, couch or furniture, just out in the elements . . . in Canada.)

  2. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Mar 24 2013 15:51:09
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    Dear abs,

    The longevity numbers we often hear are for adults under ideal conditions.

    Nymphs are not as hearty as adults.

    I have frozen bed bugs overnight and wathed them thaw out the next day.

    Newly hatched unfed nymphs seem to live about two weeks before they expire but some expire sooner.

    Variance in temerature will effect survivability. Continued exposure to sub freezing temperature would produce mortality better than exposure to temperatures that fluctuate. Our esteemed colleague DC has informed us that three weeks in chest type freezers is necessary to produce 100% mortality of bed bugs.

    Hope this helps ! paul b.

  3. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Mar 24 2013 16:18:22
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    That absolutely helps, thank you Paul Bello!

    P Bello - 2 days ago  » 
    Of course, that is unless you'd rather be President & Founder of a fan club type thing.
    We could do bake sales, fund raisers, an annual banquet dinner dance, have a secret handshake and raise money for a bed bug remediation charity.
    What fun that would be . . .
    pjb

    I moved this over from another thread so I could respond to it . . . this was your response to me asking you if I could send you my application to also be your #1 Fan . . .

    Bake sales you say? I love bake sales! I had someone just yesterday ask me for my delicious Hummingbird Cake recipe! And "secret handshake"?! Oh the anticipation!!!

    P Bello - 2 days ago  » 
    What fun that would be . . .
    pjb

    INDEED!!!!!

  4. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Mar 24 2013 16:36:42
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    They're not all that big.

    How many hummingbirds does it take to make a pie anyway ?

    What about a cake?

    pjb

  5. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Mar 24 2013 19:36:45
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    You've never had Hummingbird Cake?! You don't know what you're missing! No actual hummingbirds . . . bananas, pineaple, cream cheese icing . . .YUM!

    Next time DC comes into the states we should have a bed bug summit! In between our meetings for the bed bug remediation charity, I will bake you a Hummingbird Cake and DC a Pecan Pie . . . well in between the hot tub parties, of course . . . it can't be all work!!!

    Everyone's invited!!

    (And the bed bug remediation charity is something we really should do . . . you be the president, I'll be VP!)

  6. doofenshmertz

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Mar 24 2013 22:54:55
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    Aha...so this is where you came AF to ask about the going looney tunes bedbugger When I clicked on the forums a little while ago, I see the heading about frozen bed bugs versus frozen nymphs,,and I said to myself.."self this sounds like something pertaining to my situation" As it turns out..IT IS MY SITUATION. I love it. You cannot hide, I will find you.

    Hot tub parties, cake, pie. Do I need to come there and supervise?? Your hummingbird cake AF sounds purty darn close to my banana split cake....graham crumbs/pineapple/whipping cream/bananas/walnuts..YUUUMMMM. My most requested dessert from everyone for occasions. Only for occasions tho, becuz if I made it more than that..well you can guess where are a$$es would be heading in no time flat. All of our nicknames would seriously be Fatty McButterpants.

    Back to the craziness of ME, then I am sure I will stop bugging you guys. Bugging you. ha ha

    The nymphs I tossed were not newly hatched, they were bigger as I had no trouble seeing them. I read that newly hatched are extremely tiny and you really have to look to see them. Mine were that opaquey color with no red in them. Guessing these were newly molted or something, and they would have been heading out later on that night for a snack if I hadn't found them???? Does the 2 week rule apply to these guys as well, or just tack on another week or 2 or..... because they were outside, consider them toast, and don't give them another thought?

    ""Variance in temerature will effect survivability. Continued exposure to sub freezing temperature would produce mortality better than exposure to temperatures that fluctuate. Our esteemed colleague DC has informed us that three weeks in chest type freezers is necessary to produce 100% mortality of bed bugs.""

    I actually had to google what a chest freezer was. Didn't know what it was...yeesh. It's just your basic freezer, but smaller. Why did I not know that? One of my kids bought one for her house last year. Anyway. Would this mean that you could get the same results...death...if bugs were outside, in frozen but fluctuating temps, maybe under a snowbank for a good 3 months versus 3 weeks of constant temperature freezering? At one point this winter we had the most freezing cold snap for a few weeks of around -35 to -38C or -31 to -36F..and with the windchill thrown in, it was flipping brutal with temps going down to around to -45C..that would be -49F. What on earth can you get the temperature down to on one of those chest freezers anyway?

    Talked to my mom today, and she was a voice of some reason regarding my temporary insanity. She just said, you did what you thought was right at the time, it wasn't, can't go back and change it. As we like to say at our house, she said calm your bush and move past it. Nothing you can do about your mistake now. What's done is done. Mind you. What we both agreed on was...holy cow if this should ever happen again, you seriously know what NOT TO DO.

    My mom is a little more calm about these things..grossed out but calm as she was born in 1936 to dirt poor parents with 13 kids in the house, and were living from hand to mouth. She remembers having to take sandwiches to school with lard as the filling. Gross. They were also plagued with so many bed bugs that they were crawling on the walls and everywhere. She remembers begging her mom to please do something about these, but was told we have no money to do anything about them, we can barely feed ourselves. She said she decided to take matters into her own hands and try and do something herself as they were eating them alive. I should ask her how she thought of this idea, but what she said was, she took coal oil and "painted the house with this stuff" Never got rid of them, but kept their numbers down to a more liveable degree. She said "my dad was not allowed to smoke in the house" ha ha

  7. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 25 2013 7:26:42
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    Hi,

    First of all there are far too many predators of bedbugs which would eradicate a population in the outdoors long before they succumbed to the cold. It is simply put a "fear too far" and not something that people should worry about.

    With regards the use of freezing to eradicate bedbugs. Yes it is possible if you test and log the conditions of a freezer to work out if it can kill bedbugs reliably. However using "normal" domestic equipment that testing and configuration process can take many weeks to conduct and needs constant monitoring. The critical factors surround the type of freezer to use, the packing of materials inside the freezer and the "at rest" temperature of the freezer being used.

    Again like thermal it comes down to achieving critical temperatures for definable periods of time. Although it is feasible the equipment needed to ensure that it is done correctly costs more than a commercially available decon product and is therefore not considered cost effective.

    Now to be 100% clear freezing outside is a conductive process due to the fact that snow is a great insulator. If you think about survival advise to bury yourself into a snow drift to avoid freezing to death you will understand why outside is not the solution.

    However for various legal reasons this is about all the advise I can share on this subject.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  8. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 25 2013 8:41:50
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    Thank you so very much David Cain for your input! And thank you again Paul Bello!

    doofenshmertz - 9 hours ago  » 
    Aha...so this is where you came AF to ask about the going looney tunes bedbugger When I clicked on the forums a little while ago, I see the heading about frozen bed bugs versus frozen nymphs,,and I said to myself.."self this sounds like something pertaining to my situation" As it turns out..IT IS MY SITUATION. I love it. You cannot hide, I will find you.

    Funny doofenshmertz (although I do think "Fatty McButterpants" is "catchier")!!

    So taking into consideration the experts' input on this thread and your previous thread, I think you have very little to worry about regarding the outside nymphs between the predators, temperatures, length of time, etc.!

    So deep breaths and let the monitoring phase and hot tub parties begin!

  9. Louise

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 25 2013 10:29:01
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    doofenshmertz - 11 hours ago  » 
    At one point this winter we had the most freezing cold snap for a few weeks of around -35 to -38C or -31 to -36F..and with the windchill thrown in, it was flipping brutal with temps going down to around to -45C..that would be -49F.

    Wow. That is WAY cold. How do people survive those winters>

    (Snort. Just kidding. I'm in Canada, too.)

    doofenshmertz - 11 hours ago  » 
    Talked to my mom today, and she was a voice of some reason regarding my temporary insanity. She just said, you did what you thought was right at the time, it wasn't, can't go back and change it. As we like to say at our house, she said calm your bush and move past it. Nothing you can do about your mistake now. What's done is done. Mind you. What we both agreed on was...holy cow if this should ever happen again, you seriously know what NOT TO DO.

    Hey! That sounds just like what MY mom told me! Maybe we're sisters!!! (Wise moms, live in Canada...it's possible...)

    Okay, maybe not...although your mother's childhood experiences with bed bugs do sound a lot like my mother-in-laws...except they poured boiling water down the walls every now and again instead of coal oil. Every couple of weeks, her dad (who was reactive) would eventually yell, "I've had it!" and go sleep on the dining room floor. Then her mom would spend the next day picking bugs off of their...rudimentary...mattress.

    Ah, fun times. So glad I missed those.

    Anyways, keep breathing, stay calm and keep your eyes open. I suspect that any bed bug that ends up in your house in the future doesn't stand a chance.

  10. doofenshmertz

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 25 2013 11:37:04
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    Complete with banana split cake and some form of alcoholic beverage. I can eat and drink the panic away.

    Oh. One of you told me to check into getting a packtite. Either you or bedbugsuptown...can't remember which one and am too lazy to go and check..but it doesn't really matter. You can order them in Canada thru The Allergy Guy. With cost + shipping + taxes this little item works out to $866. Way too much coin for me at this time.

    Thanks for starting this new thread abs.. I appreciate it. This is where my brain is at this moment. A lot better, actually, than when I woke up this morning after 3 hours of sleep, shaking and puking. It is going to take a while to forgive myself, in essence, for turning what was basically no problem into a huge mess of a problem...hence all of these questions. Honest to goodness, if I run across anyone in the future, who has acquired bbs I am seriously going to tell them what not to do. The key word is..contain, contain, contain. Problem is in one room...KEEP IT IN THE ONE ROOM. But you guys already know that. Hats off to the people who remained calm from the get go.

    Okay, this is what I have interpreted from these posts that so many wonderful ppl have contributed to. If there were any adults or nymphs that ended up on the ground, there chances of survival on said ground are pretty much nil. Yes, snow is an insulator, but these supposed ones were not stuck in the middle of a snow bank, they started off on the ground, which freezes like concrete thru the winter regardless of snow piled on top of it. This is what they would have been sitting on for the last 3 months. If any managed to somehow pull thru, I am sure all the other insects that are thawing out at the same time will dispatch them for me.

    I am also going to tell myself that if anything came off the boxspring while I was uber slowly and carefully carrying it outside, someone would have surely mentioned by now of strange itchy bites/spots...it is going on 4 months already....ugghh..contain contain contain

  11. Louise

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 25 2013 11:58:40
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    Rest assured that panicking about bed bugs is *not* unusual. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

    Truly, from what you have written, you were FAR more methodical and careful than most people who are experiencing bed bugs for the first time - certainly far more so than I was. (Your advice to "contain, contain, contain" would have been very useful for me to know back in my first days of bed bug panic, let me tell you!)

    And yes, I suspect that if any bed bug had fallen off while you were taking the boxspring outside back in November, you would have seen evidence of that little critter by now.

    Breathe easy. You're experienced and you're informed now, and with bed bugs, information (and calm) truly is power. You are ultimately the one in control, not these pesky little bugs.

  12. doofenshmertz

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 25 2013 17:27:20
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    Thank you for your understanding words Louise. How many times have I said the same thing as you...been there done that bought the tshirt. Heyyy, maybeee we are long lost sisters. I couldn't imagine having to go thru what our family did so long ago. Every couple of weeks, until you couldn't stand it anymore..yikes. I know, my mom said that the coal oil trick only worked for a short time as well, then they would be back. She said the whole time she was at home, they never truly got rid of them. Grossss.

    For me, with this thought that I had about, hopefully not, knocking something off even tho I was careful, in the house...yah, I am sure at least one of us would have said something by now. I would also think that the bb would take the path of least resistance if it was dislodged. What I mean by that is.. from what I understand CO2 flows or hovers down not up , it doesn't rise up in the air. So if there was something coming off it would have come off in the kitchen just outside of this kids door, down 3 steps and out the door. It would have followed the C02 trail coming towards it from the kids room, and everyone is upstairs not down.... not hiked all the way to the cold basement away from the yummy "smell" But of course, I could be wrong...that is just my own personal idea.

    I'm also going to try and take advice and not stress to much about something that MIGHT BE outside. I did say try. Today is a lovely day, it's -2C outside, snow is melting..especially by the protected side of the house where the INCIDENT occured. I will try not to eye that stretch of gradually increasing concrete with too much suspicion. Like I had mentioned earlier, anything that might have been out was either resting right on the stone cold concrete, or on the frozen ground, so I think it has become a non issue at this point..like everyone pointed out.

    If we get bbs again, I don't want to say this, but I think the same kid that brought them in before is going to be the same one who brings them in again. Why? She doesn't seem to care. She is constantly ending up at ppl's houses that I don't know and gets mad when I question her about her whereabouts. Not 2 days ago she ended up at some person's house who I have never heard of, who just happens to live in what we like to call "the ghetto" Let's just say the ppl that live there drink listerine, and are in an area with high concentrations of bbs in the rental properties there..houses as well as apartments. It's awful. She beat it out of the house to go there when I was on the phone with my mom. Then I mention to her about the bb risk, and she snarkily tells me..."yah well, I was there and I came home and DIDN'T put my clothes in the dryer, and I have no bites on me!" aaaahhhh


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