Found at least 100 nymphs post-treatment. HELP! « Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums

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Found at least 100 nymphs post-treatment. HELP!

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bugsbedamned

newbite
Joined: May '09
Posts: 9

Posted 9 months ago
Sun May 31 2009 15:16:11
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Hi, I've posted this scenario in a couple other threads, but I'm not sure anyone has seen it. I discovered 3 adult bed bugs in my bed at 6:00 a.m. about 2.5 weeks ago. We hired a pest control company based on the recommendation of a bed bug dog business I had called. 1 week ago, on Saturday, guy treated our entire house, I think thoroughly. He took bed apart, used 3 different chemicals. He saw no evidence of bed bugs whatsoever. I took this to mean we had a mild infestation and felt we might be able to nip it in the bud. But all of last week, I have found lots and lots (like 25 a day) of nymphs on top of the encased mattress in our master bedroom (where we were getting bitten). I also found a couple on top of the sheets in the guest room (where my husband and I go to get away from each other, lol).

Thus, we are actually seeing more bbs 1 week after treatment. It unnerves me to see them moving around--you wouldn't even notice them unless you were looking for them. But I figure if I'm seeing 25 or so a day, there are more of them elsewhere.

I don't know if this is relevant, but no one has actually slept in that room since treatment. When I started seeing the babies on top of the encasement, I couldn't go back . . .

We have to move in 2 months. Putting house on the market in 2 weeks. Considering thermal remediation or thermapure. I have found lessees for both products, but need to schedule meetings with them to do quotes.

So, what does this mean that all these babies are all over the place after treatment?
And, should I do the heat treatment? If so, which one?

THANKS SO MUCH!
spideyjg

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Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 1,614

Posted 9 months ago
Sun May 31 2009 15:20:15
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Chemicals don't kill eggs. They hatched in the week since the treatment and the nymphs are after food.

91% alcohol will F' them up. This is no time to retreat from the battle.

Call the PCO and get him back in there to annihilate them

Jim
bugsbedamned

newbite
Joined: May '09
Posts: 9

Posted 9 months ago
Sun May 31 2009 15:41:23
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Thanks Spidey. That's what I have been doing--spraying with rubbing alcohol. Is that the right kind? Interestingly, they don't die on the spot. They continue trying to move around. I have started trying to pick them up with tissue and flush them down the toilet, because I am fearful they will just keep on going. But they are so small, they are hard to handle.

This is what I don't get---the PCO will come back out the middle of this week (at day 14), and let's say he is successful at killing 100% of the hatchlings. If there are a couple eggs attached somewhere, though, then the cycle will start all over again, right? Or if there is just 1 pregnant female, then the process starts all over again. Is there any way chemically to get rid of all life stages? How does one, with chemicals and no heat or vikane, ever get rid of them totally?

Thanks.
spideyjg

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Posts: 1,614

Posted 9 months ago
Sun May 31 2009 15:42:45
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The alcohol must be 91% not 70%.

Jim
buggyinsocal

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Posted 9 months ago
Sun May 31 2009 15:46:01
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There is only one chemical on the market that kills some bed bug eggs. None of the other chemicals touch them, and the one that does kill eggs does not reliably kill all the eggs. That's why with most chemical treatments, multiple visits are required. The first visit kills the live bugs, and any residuals that are down will likely begin to work on the newly hatched nymphs from the eggs that chemicals don't kill.

In addition, you should know that bed bugs are not like many other common pests. Roaches groom themselves, so if they cross a residual they will ingest that chemical. Ants can be baited (i.e. chemicals that will kill them mixed with a substance they will consume). Bed bugs do not groom themselves, and the only food they eat is our blood. As a result, the residuals on bed bugs take longer to work than with many other pests. I've seen some PCOs describe bed bugs as coming into little contact with residuals because of how bed bugs are built. Some PCOs suggest that the reason people need to act as bait is that once a bed bug has eaten (i.e. drunk your blood) it's belly is engorged, allowing it to come into more contact with the residuals.

These are gross details. I know you probably don't want to hear them. But it is important to understand how chemical treatment works.

Bed bugs are also very good at hiding. The fact that you didn't see any in your bed isn't a conclusive indicator about the level of infestation. Bed bugs can harbor elsewhere, like between the baseboard and the wall, for example. The fact that you're seeing nymphs now isn't a conclusive indicator that you have a heavy infestation.

Thermapure is one type of thermal remediation. It's pretty much a brand name (i.e. Thermapure is to thermal remediation what Kleenex is to facial tissue.)

If you haven't already read the FAQ on hiring a PCO, I would do so.

http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/07/faq-advice-on-getting-treatment-to-eliminate-your-bed-bugs/

Spideyjg is right. Seeing those babies means that the eggs that the chemicals didn't get hatched. It's also a clear example of why bed bugs can be so hard to eradicate. To get rid of them, you have to get rid of every single bug, since one inseminated female who lives, or two eggs that survive and hatch, can start the infestation all over again.

Given that you cannot put off selling the house, if you can afford it and find a good provider, thermal seems a really good option. I had thermal treatment from an experienced PCO at the end of June of last year, and it got rid of all the bugs and eggs in one go. The trick, of course, is finding a good PCO. So read that FAQ. And be sure to ask the PCO what kind of evidence they would need to retreat. Given your house selling deadline, I would be sure to ask if the retreat would be another thermal treatment or chemical, since I imagine you want the bugs gone before you put the house on the market.

(You may want to search the fora for threads on thermal to get an idea about the kinds of damage people have had from thermal so you know what questions to ask as you prep for thermal to avoid that kind of damage).

Until you can get your PCO back out, 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol is a contact killer. It won't kill bugs who wander over where it was sprayed after it dried, but it will kill ones it comes into contact with.

Keep in mind that if you choose to go with chemical instead of thermal, you're going to have much better results if someone sleeps in the infested room rather than moving elsewhere, which dramatically increases the chances of the bugs spreading throughout the house, making the problem harder to treat.

One last thing: try to get a sense when looking at thermal providers how much experience the companies have. The PCOs here who use thermal freely admit that it's as much art as science. A good experienced provider who has worked the kinks out of the system it your best bet. Next up would be a new provider who is clearly committed to learning the process and willing to retreat with thermal given your house selling deadline if the first treatment doesn't take. Because of the expense to companies (thermal required two thermal techs and one chemical guy to treat my small one bedroom apartment. The thermal crew was there most of the day, and the chemical guy was there for several hours), they have a big incentive to get it right the first time. But it does take some learning, and even the best pros had to start somewhere.
bugsbedamned

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Joined: May '09
Posts: 9

Posted 9 months ago
Sun May 31 2009 19:31:47
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Thanks so much. Weird . . . I told the owner of the pest control company. Ane he was really pooh poohing my prob. as easy to solve. He said we were far from ever needing anything like thermal treatment. And it does seem like it's only in 2 rooms--no one has gotten bitten elsewhere to the best of my knowledge. And it does seem like thermal is a big gun type of remedy--used for dormitories, hotels and what not. But if you have to get rid of every single bug with chemicals, I just don't see how anyone does it given the nature of the pest.

I have read some of the posts on thermal treatment and I see that it has failed a number of times, and has also caused damage. Not great. I'll interview the thermal people and report back what I find. I know that one has a lot of experience, does thermapure but lives one state away (is willing to travel). The other only has about a month of experience, just got trained, has the temp air stuff, and is 5 miles from my house. The local guy does have 20 years in the pest control business--he just got the license for the temp air treatment.

Does the freaking bed bug serve any purpose on this earth??? I can't think of one.
spideyjg

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Posts: 1,614

Posted 9 months ago
Sun May 31 2009 19:49:28
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If you were seeing adults and other life stages before and now all there are are 1st instar freshly hatched nymphs then the PCO is justifiable in his belief that they can clean them out.

If you are seeing other stages than a different story. When is he coming to treat again?

Jim
lieutenantdan

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Joined: Apr '07
Posts: 1,162

Posted 9 months ago
Mon Jun 1 2009 9:39:54
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Are you positive that these creatures that you have found are in fact bed bug nymphs?

Could be book lice.

Book lice can resemble bed bug nymphs to the untrained eye, also some roach nymphs also but
the roach nymph has wings I believe.

See images of book lice
buggyinsocal

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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,259

Posted 9 months ago
Mon Jun 1 2009 10:46:26
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I point people to the stories of what went wrong with thermal mostly in the interest of full disclosure. I had thermal treatment myself, and I had very little damage that wasn't easily preventable. If I'd been less sleep deprived or if my PCO had known more about DVRs (and one of them really was on its last legs, making horrible dying noises before the treatment) that damage could have been avoided by unplugging them both. My microwave was over 13 years old, and I suspect that the issue was that the high heat (since it also remained plugged in) damaged the screen that was used to input cook times and start and stop, which I suspect used a thermal sensor. I think my surge protectors that failed used thermal switches as part of their way of sensing a surge. Easily preventable.

Out west, the use of thermal is much more common.

It is a big gun approach, but there are two reasons I would pick it again any time. First, unlike chemical treatment, if done properly, it works in one go, eliminating the need to use yourself as bait. I already have insomnia. The thought of sleeping with vermin meant I would have had a complete nervous break down if I'd needed to be bait. Just couldn't do it.

Secondly, I like to reduce my exposure to chemical pesticides because I am that type of crunchy Californian. I'm not crazy about it, and my battle with bed bugs has actually really moderated my views on that a great deal. I get that not everyone is going to have a landlord willing to shell out for thermal, so I'd really like to see more research on more effective chemical pesticides because no one should have to endure these pests for long.

And (oops, apparently there were three), my apartment is pretty much wall to wall with stuff. I'm not a collector on the level of only having a small path through stacks in every room, but I have a lot of books and papers as a result of my job. Living in a big city means a small place, and a lot of my wall space is taken up with bookshelves. The PCOs freely admitted that my apartment couldn't be prepped easily or in a timely fashion for chemical, so thermal was the best option.

Anyway, yes, I know that thermal seems like a big gun. And it's certainly priced up front like a big gun. I don't think it's overpriced now that I see the costs to the PCOs. It's much more labor intensive than many chemical treatments (although not so much with people who do a lot of steaming, but they charge more than less intense chemical).

But despite that it can be a very effective treatment, and when you factor in the amount of your own time you need to spend prepping, and the stuff you have to buy/pay for to prep before and fight during chemical, I think the costs are pretty close.

As to which one to hire, if you go that way, do keep in mind that the new guy does have to learn his craft somehow, and if the newer PCO has good solid polices about retreating, you may very well be okay.

I also won't be offended in any way if you don't go with thermal. But I know that with a lot of the posts, we get an oversampling of people with (usually) very legit horror stories. We don't hear as much on the boards from people for whom everything went well in one or two treatment, chemical or otherwise.

That said, I would definitely give your chemical PCO a chance first. And spideyjg's question about when he's coming out to treat is a good one. Let us know how that second visit goes and hang in there in the meantime.