For PCO does anyone know about this supper heating the house

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For PCO does anyone know about this supper heating the house

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flabergasted

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 5:07:42
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I just discovered these things in house. My brother and I both started getting weird bites around the same time. I thought it was scabies because of the way I was reacting and did the treatment for them. I didn't get anymore for awhile so I guess the BB's don't like the skin treatment. I noticed a couple of new bites and the pharmist said sometimes it takes a second treatment. Well before I wasted the $50 cream for a 2nd treatment my brother phones and says it not scabies we have bed bugs because he caught one in his couch. Well my couch and recliner are full of them.

So in my search for a pest control company I ran across this Thermal exterminating. I watched the videos where they were using it in hotels on the US and thought it was better than spraying pesticideds in my house. Low and behold we have one of the only two companies in Canada that do it here in our city. So I called and spoke with him - the low down of the conversation is it costs about $1,700 the process is they seal up the house bring the heat up to 140 degress and sustain for 4 hours and basically cook them - you do the cleanup. He says you don't have to get rid of your furniture and it also kind of acts like a cleanser as well for any mold, dust mites or other creepy crawlers.

I was told by someone I am probably better off spraying because I have a condo but we have solid concrete block walls between us and they could be coming in at the foundation joint. Were not sure who's house got it first but my neighbors moved in two months before the 1st bites appeared and big brothers downstairs tenat is a prison guard.

So the delema here is spend 1,700 maybe it works or go the spray route and take the $1,500 I am saving toast the couch because the PCO I found will do the fisrst spray and followups for 750.00 .

For some peoples interest while reading the forums I used my H20 Mop and mini steamer last night on the couch after I riped the bottom off and they cooked just fine.
bugfreebed

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 8:12:42
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The Thermal is a great option in single family homes , condos and apartments can get a little tricky . Your a little unclear does your neighbors have BB and what are they planing to do ? If you do the heat and your neighbors don't I would back it up with an application of dust in the wall voids ( outlet covers , pipes, cracks) and caulk all the cracks in the unit .
buggyinsocal

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 13:11:41
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You might want to search the boards here for "thermal" as most people refer to the treatment by that term. You'll find a lot more posts about the subject that way, including my own account of the thermal treatment I had back in June of 2008.

I live in one unit in a four plex. I had thermal even though I have an apartment. Thermal can be a great option even in multi-unit buildings so long as it is accompanied by inspection to assure that all adjacent units are either uninfested or are being treated at the same time.

Keep in mind that with conventional chemical treatment, you will be required to continue acting as bait to lure the bugs out to cross the residual chemical poisons put down to kill the bugs. In addition, with chemical treatment, you may very well require more than one treatment since there are no chemicals that reliably kill 100% of bed bug eggs. As a result, with chemical treatment, you're basically luring the already existing bugs out to feed on you in order to get them to cross residual poisons after the first treatment, and then on a second or subsequent treatment, you're continuing to lure out the bugs that hatched from the eggs that weren't killed the first time.

Some people are far more able to tolerate--mentally and physically--being bait than others.

In addition, thermal isn't without its risks. It's likely to damage at least some items in your home, even with prep that follows all directions. If your PCO gives you good instructions and you follow them carefully, the damage is likely to be minor. However, I also think it's important to be really clear about the pros and cons of any treatment option.

If I had it to do all over again, I would absolutely choose thermal a second time; however, I was lucky enough to get a good PCO who got it right the first time. I'm not sure that people who've been treated by less skilled PCOs would say the same.

I would personally be at least as concerned about researching the PCO in question as I would be about researching the method.

Hope that helps some.
flabergasted

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 21:01:31
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bugfreebed - 12 hours ago »
The Thermal is a great option in single family homes , condos and apartments can get a little tricky . Your a little unclear does your neighbors have BB and what are they planing to do ? If you do the heat and your neighbors don't I would back it up with an application of dust in the wall voids ( outlet covers , pipes, cracks) and caulk all the cracks in the unit .

The are town houses they were built 30 years ago when they actually built things to last. They don't share any common utlitiy runs ie electrical or plumbing so that would be a problem. Its a brick wall and and the only place it apears they can come through if the foundation framing line and yes about two months after the new renters moved it i noticed my 1st bite . The caulking thing will ge don before the PCO sprays this week see my reply to buggyin social he couldn't have answered the question any better.
cilecto

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 21:18:03
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> For some peoples interest while reading the forums I used my H20 Mop and mini steamer last night on the couch after I riped the bottom off and they cooked just fine.

Glad for you, but based on the info on the boards, steaming requires more firepower. Seeing some dead bugs does not mean that you got them all. There are also issues with mold promotion and blowing bugs away.
flabergasted

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 22:07:04
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buggyinsocal - 7 hours ago »
You might want to search the boards here for "thermal" as most people refer to the treatment by that term. You'll find a lot more posts about the subject that way, including my own account of the thermal treatment I had back in June of 2008.
I live in one unit in a four plex. I had thermal even though I have an apartment. Thermal can be a great option even in multi-unit buildings so long as it is accompanied by inspection to assure that all adjacent units are either uninfested or are being treated at the same time.
Keep in mind that with conventional chemical treatment, you will be required to continue acting as bait to lure the bugs out to cross the residual chemical poisons put down to kill the bugs. In addition, with chemical treatment, you may very well require more than one treatment since there are no chemicals that reliably kill 100% of bed bug eggs. As a result, with chemical treatment, you're basically luring the already existing bugs out to feed on you in order to get them to cross residual poisons after the first treatment, and then on a second or subsequent treatment, you're continuing to lure out the bugs that hatched from the eggs that weren't killed the first time.
Some people are far more able to tolerate--mentally and physically--being bait than others.
In addition, thermal isn't without its risks. It's likely to damage at least some items in your home, even with prep that follows all directions. If your PCO gives you good instructions and you follow them carefully, the damage is likely to be minor. However, I also think it's important to be really clear about the pros and cons of any treatment option.
If I had it to do all over again, I would absolutely choose thermal a second time; however, I was lucky enough to get a good PCO who got it right the first time. I'm not sure that people who've been treated by less skilled PCOs would say the same.
I would personally be at least as concerned about researching the PCO in question as I would be about researching the method.
Hope that helps some.

Your answer was the answer I was looking for. I found out from the company here that does the thermal that they are supposedly the only company in Canada that does this and particularily in this city. So where could you get a reference from?

I was concerned about damages. The prep list said remove electronics, plastic and on and on since the only place I can have found anyof these thing is in a couch and chair. I work in the construction industry and have seen in large comercial and residentail developements heat damge from fires in complexes half a block down and depending on the year of construction the FT fire rating on the electrical jacket in your home would be a concern. I have done extensive renovations but still have the old some old wiring in the basement area where I haven't refinished. I don't think the security systm and several special computer runs in my home that are fibre optic even with the FT4 fire rating I don't think they would take to kindly to the 140 degree heat without damage. Also I am not comfortable with pulling stuff out the house like candles etc and bring themback in just in case there are eggs.

The PCO that is going to do the work came today and said it doesn't appear that I have a bad infestation as it seems to be concentrated in the living room but he does think they came through the foundation from my neighbors. Reading all the forums here has pretty well made my mind up the old neighbor that moved out turned the place into a flop house and every Tom Dick and Harry that need a place the last two months they were dragging furniture in and out constantly. When the lease came up the girl who orginal leased the place was so fed up she told brother and friend lease is up in a month you better have a place to live. The new neighbor moved in and two months later I have my first bites. The PCO is pretty sure they are coming through the foundation and since I tore the basement down to the concrete walls they are going to really soak it.

I contacted a foundation specialist that works for our company (he wasn't surprised and asked how I was holding up) this is a very common call these days with complexes like this. So before they spraay he going to do a thermal check on the frame line and reseal the base. I am also going to knock on the door and ask if anyone next door has anything weird with their skin. I was told they will probably lie because of the social stigma that goes along with this. But these people have three kids.

As for being bug bait I can live with it for a little while longer - I think the thought of having the scabbies was worse because the burrow into you skin and but they die when away from "the host" for more than 2 to 3 hours and laundry soap and good old indoor bug spray that you can use on beds and funiture will kill them with a good steam clean after. The couch will remain my bed with daily washing of the sheets until the spray is done and I the money I am saving will pay for the new living room suite once I can move back to my bedroom after the spray.

Thank You.
flabergasted

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 23:44:32
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cilecto - 1 hour ago »
> For some peoples interest while reading the forums I used my H20 Mop and mini steamer last night on the couch after I riped the bottom off and they cooked just fine.
Glad for you, but based on the info on the boards, steaming requires more firepower. Seeing some dead bugs does not mean that you got them all. There are also issues with mold promotion and blowing bugs away.

Until I found this web site with real people battling these things and not someone trying to pick my pockets and sell me sprays I hit the net and read.

Steam was an alternative to chemicals, as was the thermal maybe I should have elaborated further how I used the H20 mop. Since I have allegies and use steam all the time for cleaning I know to have a rotating air source like a fan in another room to promote fast drying and not to saturate the area.

Everything I read says the BB's hate heat. So knowing that the couch and chair was probably source since I found out the bites were not scabbie we pulled them out and found fecal and shells, vacuumed it throughly pulled off the dust cloth off the bottoms. We found some live ones which we vacuumed out. We then turned the couch on its back gave the inside creases a shot of steam with the mini steamer flip the couch up put the H20 mop on the dec and ran it around using the carpet lift so the pad wasn't really in direct contact and ran over the deck a couple of times then we flipped the couch forward. We proably had about 10 adults that landed on the carpet and a bunch inside we vacummed them up and fecal and skins that came out. We then vacuumed the baseboard area and gave it a shot of steam and stood there watching and a bunch came out from the baseboard that looked like 2nd or 3rd (I found some wonderful picture on a public health site these stages egg to 5 unfed adult and fed adult) so we vacuum and put some steam to the carpet. I also did this was all done once it was dark outside and as if we were watching TV that's when the bites were happening. We just stood there and watched they after the steam and more showed up walking in the carpet we vacuumed and did it a couple more times getting a few each time. I was also checking the carpet to make sure we were not saturating it. I know it is no cure but it sure flushed the live ones out quick and thats was all I trying to do was get as many as I could until got more info on what could be done. In my research the morning I found out this was the problem.

I have read that if one of these things is in your home for a year that they produce 3 to 4 eggs a day so the math in my head was real simple since I am a number crunsher 1 bug at 4 a day = 1460 and every 7 to 10 days the eggs hatch. When I thought it was scabbies that creeped me out because they burrow into you skin. Imagine what we are finding on the floors and beds living microscopically under your skin. You can catch those trying on cloths in a store but they can only survive 2 to 3 hours off a host and are killed by hot wash & dry and there are sprays and skin treatments you can use on furniture and beds very succesfully with one treatment. But accoding to the chart most of the ones we are find now are instar to stage 3 so I actually caught this early.
buggyinsocal

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Nov 22 2009 14:36:56
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I rent, rather than own, so I don't know as much about the construction of my building. I can generally say it was probably built in the late 1950s as a rear unit behind a 1910s Craftsman style home--which is pretty typical of the construction in my neighborhood.

The damage I sustained was essentially limited to the following: inexpensive furniture had trim peel off, two DVRs that had not been unplugged died immediately after and shortly after treatment, a 13 year old microwave gave up the ghost, several surge protectors also died (my handier than I am neighbor hypothesizes that they had thermal switches in them, a conclusion that made sense to me).

Some of that damage was preventable: had the PCO either known that DVRs had hard drives or had I been less sleep-deprived and crazed and made that connection, I think unplugging them would have saved them.

Having my IKEA furniture peel apart is something I could live with.

My laptop and external hard drive were not in the building during treatment.

The items that couldn't be treated were placed in giant Rubbermaid tubs which I sealed with duct tape and stored outside for about eight months. Given the southern California climate, I figured that chances were good any stragglers in there were probably dead. To be extra sure, I unsealed each bin and used a DDVP strip in each one (resealed with it inside in an off label usage) for a week. I then opened and aired each bin outside in the driveway before bringing almost all those items into the house. I still have one last sealed ziplock of items from those bins that contained items I didn't want to use DDVP on. I'll likely open that up at the end of next month, which will be a full 18 months since infestation--even though I'm really, really 99.099999% sure there weren't any bugs in those bins and that given the temps they were exposed to, any bugs that might have been in there are dead now.

I can't imagine having any candles in my home that I wouldn't be totally fine with either pitching and replacing with new ones or putting into a ziplock and storing them somewhere sealed up for 18 months.

I have insomnia and had it before I had bed bugs. The idea of imagining myself being bait for vermin was not going to help with that, so a one shot treatment was vastly superior to me.

As for recs, well, I'm not much help there. Down here in so Cal a lot of providers use thermal for some dry wood termite infestations. My PCO wasn't a bed bug expert, but he did know his thermal. It was a company friends of mine had used for years to treat the ants on her home, so I knew and trusted the company overall.

I can tell you that if the PCO is good at thermal, I wouldn't worry about the wiring in the walls that much. Remember that the PCO uses ducts and/or heaters to raise the temps in the structure at a very precise speed. Good PCOs can place ducts, heaters, and blankets to assure that the temps in an infested area do get warm enough without raising temps to the point that they damage things in other places. Part of the cost of thermal is because of the labor associated with setting that up and carefully monitoring temps during treatment to make sure that temps don't get high enough to cause damage. Of course, that brings us back to choosing a PCO whose experience you trust.
flabergasted

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Nov 22 2009 20:05:55
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buggyinsocal - 5 hours ago »
I rent, rather than own, so I don't know as much about the construction of my building. I can generally say it was probably built in the late 1950s as a rear unit behind a 1910s Craftsman style home--which is pretty typical of the construction in my neighborhood.
The damage I sustained was essentially limited to the following: inexpensive furniture had trim peel off, two DVRs that had not been unplugged died immediately after and shortly after treatment, a 13 year old microwave gave up the ghost, several surge protectors also died (my handier than I am neighbor hypothesizes that they had thermal switches in them, a conclusion that made sense to me).
Some of that damage was preventable: had the PCO either known that DVRs had hard drives or had I been less sleep-deprived and crazed and made that connection, I think unplugging them would have saved them.
Having my IKEA furniture peel apart is something I could live with.
My laptop and external hard drive were not in the building during treatment.
The items that couldn't be treated were placed in giant Rubbermaid tubs which I sealed with duct tape and stored outside for about eight months. Given the southern California climate, I figured that chances were good any stragglers in there were probably dead. To be extra sure, I unsealed each bin and used a DDVP strip in each one (resealed with it inside in an off label usage) for a week. I then opened and aired each bin outside in the driveway before bringing almost all those items into the house. I still have one last sealed ziplock of items from those bins that contained items I didn't want to use DDVP on. I'll likely open that up at the end of next month, which will be a full 18 months since infestation--even though I'm really, really 99.099999% sure there weren't any bugs in those bins and that given the temps they were exposed to, any bugs that might have been in there are dead now.
I can't imagine having any candles in my home that I wouldn't be totally fine with either pitching and replacing with new ones or putting into a ziplock and storing them somewhere sealed up for 18 months.
I have insomnia and had it before I had bed bugs. The idea of imagining myself being bait for vermin was not going to help with that, so a one shot treatment was vastly superior to me.
As for recs, well, I'm not much help there. Down here in so Cal a lot of providers use thermal for some dry wood termite infestations. My PCO wasn't a bed bug expert, but he did know his thermal. It was a company friends of mine had used for years to treat the ants on her home, so I knew and trusted the company overall.
I can tell you that if the PCO is good at thermal, I wouldn't worry about the wiring in the walls that much. Remember that the PCO uses ducts and/or heaters to raise the temps in the structure at a very precise speed. Good PCOs can place ducts, heaters, and blankets to assure that the temps in an infested area do get warm enough without raising temps to the point that they damage things in other places. Part of the cost of thermal is because of the labor associated with setting that up and carefully monitoring temps during treatment to make sure that temps don't get high enough to cause damage. Of course, that brings us back to choosing a PCO whose experience you trust.

As I stated before I work have been in the construction industry for 25 years in residential and commercial so I am well versed in building codes in Canada. I used to travel yearly when in residential construction to National Home Builders Conference in the US your building codes vary so much from state to state because of weather conditions I used to sit quite amazed in some of the presentations when they were showing how they hurricane strap etc.

In Canada no matter where you live we can have temperatures in summer at 40 degree’s Celsius (in 100’s Fahrenheit) to -40 in winter (the scales meet there.) So any person in Canada considering the thermal should immediately take into account what type of insulation is in the walls remember it wasn’t always the nice pink Corning being put in the may end up releasing formaldehyde or worse asbestos because of the drying power of the intense heat. Has any one ever wondered when installing new flooring in older houses why they prefer not to tear up the tile and just put a new sub floor over old VCT (vinyl composite tile) because up to the late 60’s the backing on this stuff could have asbestos.

IMPO if you are a Canadian on this site before I would consider using the thermal treatment on any home over or close to 30 years unless I had an electrician and insulation company check it out 1st but with these thing time is of the essence to get treating them actively. I spoke with a both and I am going to go with the spray. They spray people sent an inspector immediately and are doing it this Thursday morning the thermal I looking at till December 3rd and how many more would hatch by then. Either way I remain bug bait for a few more days but I have time to prep properly and the PCO coming in said if you have any questions while prepping just call the better you do the better the spray will work.

I am ever so thankful to all your responses because other wise I would not have researched this as thoroughly. I am just not comfortable with the Thermal process.
bait

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Nov 22 2009 21:45:42
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This was quite educational. Thanks for your post, flabergasted.