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Flea and tick collar contains deltamethrin

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  1. bugbasher

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Jun 4 2008 8:54:12
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    Hi all,
    Thought I would share this info to show us how hardy these little monsters are.I have been using a flea and tick collar for the last 3 years that I just found out contains 4 percent deltamethrin as the active ingredient.Before anyone gets excited hoping to protect their loved doggie from bb bites,let me assure you it has no effect on the beasts.It works great for fleas and tick,however, as I have never even seen one since I started using these collars about 3 years ago.I go to tick infested woods regularly with them.
    I was just suprised to learn that the ingredient has had no effect on them getting bitten as far as I can tell.It's possible that some would bite and die,but not likely as I would assume I'd been finding dead ones around en mass.During this ordeal one of my dogs has been especially hard hit as he has almost no hair.I used to find the blood spots on the clean sheets upon coming home,so I know for a fact he was indeed being bitten. Luckily, it's much better now although not down to zero yet,seeing any signs is now very rare and used to be a daily occurence.I just wish there was a better way to protect the pets since they are in the residence 24/7 for the most part.

  2. KillerQueen

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Jun 4 2008 22:21:03
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    LEXINGTON, Ky. – Entomologists at the University of Kentucky report that some bed bug populations across the United States are
    resistant to pyrethroid insecticides.
    Alvaro Romero, a doctoral student, and his co-investigators, Kenneth Haynes (project leader), Michael Potter, and Daniel Potter, found that
    adult bed bugs from four infestations collected from separate locations in Kentucky and Ohio were several thousand-fold resistant to
    deltamethrin and lambda-cyhalothrin compared to a susceptible laboratory strain. This high level of resistance may compromise the
    efficacy of insecticidal products that have pyrethroids as an active ingredient.
    Using a discriminating dose test with bed bug nymphs, the researchers further found that seven out of the eight field populations submitted
    by pest management firms across the country were well over 100-fold resistant to deltamethrin. These tests included bed bugs originating
    from California, Florida, Kentucky, Ohio and Virginia. Details of the study will be reported at the National Pest Management Association
    Annual Convention in Grapevine, Texas, in October, 2006.
    While the results suggest that resistance to pyrethroids is becoming more widespread, the investigators emphasize that it is not yet
    universal and many firms are still reporting good control with these active ingredients. Nonetheless, the study findings are significant given
    that cancellation of most carbamate and organophosphate insecticides has left the industry with few effective alternatives.
    Bed bug resistance to insecticides is not a new phenomenon. Resistance to DDT was first reported in the late-1940s and was so
    widespread a decade later that other products were already being recommended as alternatives. Extension Entomologist Michael Potter
    cautions that there are a number of reasons other than insecticide resistance why pest control professionals may have difficulty eliminating
    bed bugs.
    Resistance, nevertheless, represents a major challenge to the management of bed bugs and may accelerate the need for alternative
    tactics. Pyrethroid resistance is likely a factor in the resurgence of this international problem, said Haynes.
    “Insecticide resistance has occurred in the past and it will occur in the future,” observes Steve Burt, managing director, Professional Pest
    Management, Bayer Environmental Science. “As we’ve learned in the past, if you use insecticides properly and in rotation, you won’t have
    a problem. The key is all of us need to be good stewards of the products we have at our disposal, whether that be the PCO, the distributor
    or the manufacturer.”

  3. KillerQueen

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Jun 4 2008 22:32:30
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    And it gets better:
    Fipronil is a broadspectrum insecticide that disrupts the insect central nervous system by blocking the passage of chloride ions through the GABA receptor and glutamate receptor (GluCl), components of the central nervous system. This causes hyperexcitation of contaminated insects' nerves and muscles. Insect specificity of fipronil may come from a better efficacy on GABA receptor but also on the fact that GluCl does not exist in mammals.[1]

    Fipronil is a slow acting poison, when mixed with a bait it allows the poisoned insect time to return to the colony or haborage. In cockroaches the feces and carcass can contain sufficient residual pesticide to kill others in the same nesting site. In ants, the sharing of the bait among colony members assists in the spreading of the poison through out the colony. With the cascading effect, the projected kill rate is about 95% in 3 days for ants and cockroaches.

    Fipronil is used as the active ingredient in Frontline Top Spot at about 9.8% concentration, and is used together with (S)-methoprene (8.8%) in Frontline Plus, a topical flea and tick control commonly used on dogs and cats. It kills adult fleas before they lay eggs.

    After a local application of Frontline, fipronil is slightly absorbed (approx. 15%) through the skin. Low levels of fipronil may be detected in the plasma, with a very high variability between dogs.[2]

    It is also the active ingredient of Regent, now marketed by BASF, which also sells Fipronil under the brand name Termidor for use as a conventional barrier treatment for termites and also as a dust to be blown into termite tunnels. In the US, ant Fipronil based gels are sold under the MaxForce brand, and under the Combat brand. Both brands carry .001% Fipronil by weight as the active ingredient. Agricultural products include Chipco Choice for use against pests of field corn, golf courses and commercial turf.

    It acts by binding to an allosteric site of GABAA receptors and GluCl receptor (of the insect), a form of non-competitive inhibition.

    Acute oral LD50 (rat) 97 mg/kg
    Acute dermal LD50 (rat) >2000 mg/kg
    In animals and humans, fipronil poisoning is characterized by vomiting, agitation, and seizures, and can usually be managed through supportive care and early treatment of seizures.[3] [4] This risk may be associated with the withdrawal of the MaxForce tick management product.[5]

  4. KillerQueen

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Jun 4 2008 22:54:12
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    The Fipronil reference to the Termite treatment & the flea & tick Collar was my point in the second post. With everyone screaming these days about pesticides, the collar around their cat’s neck has a higher active ingredient then the soil treatment for termites. And the soil treatment will be in place for maybe 10 years. Look at the ratio of active ingredient for both.

  5. bugbasher

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jun 5 2008 21:35:11
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    Killer,
    Thank you for your very knowledgable reply.I'm trying to figure out if collar or frontline being used would actually cause the demise of the biting bug.I have already figured out that there is no deterrant to get them not to bite save covering yourself in organophosphates,which would kill you and possibly not them If fipronil would kill a bb that bites the animal wouldn't you see signs or would it crawl back to the harborage to die? I wish someone would do a study,since as stated pets are in the home most of the time and sure to get some attention from a hungry bb.I'm wondering if these products actually have killing power and how long this will take,hours,days? I know fipronil itself is not deterrent to ticks,since they will occasionally be found attatched and dead and often found crawling on the animal but not attaching for whatever reason.
    Most people assume that these prducts are ineffective for bb's simply because they don't deter but I'm wondering if they may kill.Thanks again for your imput.

  6. KillerQueen

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jun 5 2008 23:52:04
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    1. Let's say that the 15% of the active was in the plasma as mentioned above. I would say yes, it would kill. It is a slow active so the BB will be in its harborage for days before its death.
    From my experience and learning from Entomologists, I know dogs and cats are very low on the food preference for BB's. But this can also change based on the feeding habits of the bug and your schedule.
    Are you home at night? Are you sleeping at 5am? Do you work nights? Remember BB's will pull off a feeding from slight movement of its host. A dog or cat with full hair is not ideal for BB"s to feed on. They key into the best location to extract the blood of their host and I believe by the ears for dogs and cats would be best. This area is also a sensitive location for our pets to get touched. Just blow on your dog’s ear while he is sleeping and he will twitch. That motion would have a bed bug pull off. He will go back quickly to finish his meal but I think the movement would be constant once the animal feels movement around his ears. And the BB working through all the hair is a lot harder than waiting for you to arrive home.
    I question your past blood stains to the original problem of the hair on the dog. Could his skin be cracking and bleeding? I would guess without the natural oils in the dog’s fur, his skin would be dry causing a number of problems. I’m no vet so I can’t really say … I kill bugs =)
    I would guess if you’re not home a lot and you have an infestation in a multi family dwelling, the BB’s would relocate to another apartment. They can sense other humans 90 feet away, and we are without question the preferred food source.

  7. KillerQueen

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jun 6 2008 0:07:35
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    Also, I have to tell you, being new here and reading about the "PCO's" doing poor treatments and the public doing self treatments is scaring me. Too many people are having problems for months and months without a cure. The German cockroach is very good at adapting to products used in the past. And Bed bugs are showing signs of this as well. People who are not solving BB problems in a timely manner are exposing generations of BB's to products that may not work in the future. With the Green movement going on in this country and Gov't getting stricter on pesticides will make for a very interesting future dealing with BB infestations. I knew BB's were the buzz in my industry and that PMP's were having trouble dealing with them .. But I didn't know it was at this level. No wonder my boss just gave me a raise yesterday =)

  8. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jun 6 2008 1:08:49
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    People are having a lot of trouble.

    In many urban cases of multi-unit dwellings, it's because landlords are not having neighbors inspected and/or treated unless they complain of bites. A real problem with people not understanding bed bugs.

    Where are you, KillerQueen?

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  9. KillerQueen

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jun 6 2008 1:45:55
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    I'm just outside of Queens NY on Long Island. I know BB's are getting out of hand, and I know a lot of PMP's are not getting the job done for people. Just didn't think it was this bad. On a positive note, I was in a building yesterday training a new tech, he was going to do his first BB job with me. We first went to a building to do a 50 apt complex for monthly roach control. I knocked on 1 door of a tenant I treated for bed bugs about 4 or 5 months ago. She never takes monthly service and I have not seen her since the very first visit of her BB job. I did one service, told my boss I will not need to return there again, the landlord of this place trusts me 110% when I talk about BB's. She will do whatever I ask of her and the tenants. I called it just right. =) The girl answered the door yesterday and asked if she could kiss me ... She has been perfect since the 1 and only visit. (reason why I hate people saying you can’t get it done with one treatment) I’m no fool, I know you can’t at every stop, but it is doable at times.
    Then we go to another building with about 30 Apt's. Again Monthly Roach service here, same landlord different building. Apt 1, I found the bed bugs months ago while treating for roaches. I noticed the bites on the woman’s arms and started to ask questions. Many techs have tunnel vision when treating kitchen and baths for roaches. Well after talking with her and then asking if I could look around, I confirmed she had BB"s. We set-up treatment 2 days later, I did do 2 follow ups and again ... Knocked this problem out cold with a total of three visits. (2 bed rooms, 3 beds, a living room with BB”s in 2 sofas, and a small computer room with an infested couch as well) Three people sleeping in the apt. each getting bit. I think the lady was afraid to say anything to the landlord because she brought them in from a cruse she went on months earlier (She said she had 0 problems after the first visit) but I knew I wanted 2 more services. And this Apt. was loaded! I guess the difference with me is... I tell my boss this is what it takes... and this is the time I need to do it right or I don't do it at all. He lets me do whatever I want to solve any problem I face. I am the "Bed Bug Guy" for my company, I do every BB job that comes in. He trusts my judgment and he knows what I need to do to make him honest money. Sad to see all these people going this long and getting crazy over this bug.

  10. KillerQueen

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jun 6 2008 1:53:46
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    "Landlords are not having neighbors inspected and/or treated unless they complain of bites. A real problem with people not understanding bed bugs."
    See that right there, I will refuse to do any service for that landlord. I will insist to talk with that landlord and educate him or her about this bug, and make sure they spend the right money now, and give people in the building the quality of life they deserve before they themselves get dragged into court. And spend more money in the long run. My company lets me do the talking and my work shows the results.

  11. bugbasher

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jun 6 2008 9:41:38
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    Killer,
    Thanks for the info,I really wanted to know if they should be killed even though not repelled.At the height of my infestation,my almost hairless dog was definately getting bitten also.I would check the sheets and their were fresh spots and cast skins on the bed when I got home.He is probably not the norm though as I do agree why fight with hair(if you're a bb that is).But the sad truth is I may be fighting this for a long,long time if my father upstairs has them and I think he does(refused to get treatment,claims no bugs,won't listen to reason,75 y.o.),so all I can do is try to make a very hostile envirement for the bugs down here.He's directly above me.And so it continues,although much,much better.

  12. Man in Black

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Mar 10 2012 14:09:30
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    This may be a dumb question, but just to clarify, are you saying you've had good results with Fipronil/Termidor?

    Thanks
    MIB

  13. cilecto

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat Mar 10 2012 21:01:35
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    This post is 3+ years old. Most participants have likely moved on. My reading of the original post is that his pets were bit by BB, despite their bring treated for fleas and ticks. As bed bugs tend to not stay on the host and only move around if necessary, they are less susceptible to poisons.

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  14. Man in Black

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sun Mar 11 2012 10:48:41
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    Thanks for your reply, Cilecto. The way i was reading it was that animals are not ideal hosts for BB, so fipronil flea and tick treatments may not work well on them. I've used fipronil in the past as a general insecticide for any type of "community" type bug (termites, ants, roaches and so on) and it worked very well since it did not repel or kill instantly, but was carried back and spread to others by any insect that came into contact with it.

    I guess my main question is what was/is KillerQueen using? it sounded like she was getting good results, but I can't find a specific reference to her method.

    Thanks

    MIB

  15. cilecto

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sun Mar 11 2012 12:23:00
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    MIB. I believe that KQ was making a general comment about the amount of pesticides we expose pets to. At the time of posting, KQ was a "newbite", having joined a few weeks earlier. Three years later, KQ's reputation is legendary. His claim to fame is his thoroughness in inspection and application. IIRC, he applies a pretty commonly used pesticide.

  16. Man in Black

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sun Mar 11 2012 19:17:18
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    I'd like to know what he uses. My problem is really twofold - I live in an apartment and the pest control company they use is worthless. Also, the person I live with refuses to do any of the common maintenance and preventive maintenance needed with bed bugs - They just say "Let the bug guy deal with it". Fine, but all the bug guy did was spray a couple baseboards (only if there was nothing in the way) with some pesticide and spray the top and sides of the mattress with alcohol - he didn't lift the mattress or box springs to get at the underside. So that's my problem - I'm the only one who seems to care, and I'm not getting any help from roommate or bug guy.

    Pretty much, I'm looking for the atom bomb of bed bug killers - that's why I was asking about fipronil, because it's just me and the chemical I choose, and as I mentioned, it's worked well for me in the past. The only answer I can get about fipronil is "It's not for indoor use". I'm way passed caring about harm to humans anymore - I'd use napalm if I could get my hands on it.

    One guy did mention a product called Zenprox EC, which is Etofenprox, so I may give it a shot, although arson is looking better every day (Kidding).

    Thanks again

    MIB

  17. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon Mar 12 2012 6:10:26
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    Man in Black - 10 hours ago  » 
    The only answer I can get about fipronil is "It's not for indoor use". I'm way passed caring about harm to humans anymore - I'd use napalm if I could get my hands on it.

    I would STRONGLY caution you against this kind of attitude. First, you're not just responsible for yourself, but even if you live alone, you may cause harm to others (and be legally liable) for applying a pesticide outside labeling instructions, let alone one banned for indoor use.

    It's my understanding that eliminating bed bugs successfully is WAY MORE about knowledge of bed bugs and how you use various products and tools and WAY LESS about which tools and products you use.

    Self-treatment is not easy but there's no reason you can't eliminate bed bugs with legal chemicals being used appropriately per label instructions and general safety precautions.

    The Resources page offers some links to Comprehensive Guides online about bed bugs. Books like those by Paul Bello and David Cain may also be helpful. There are people here who are experts who might answer questions if you PM them. (I'm not an expert.)

  18. cilecto

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon Mar 12 2012 11:13:38
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    > Pretty much, I'm looking for the atom bomb of bed bug killers.

    You'll find that bomb between your ears (consider that a compliment). As NoBugs said, it seems less about the chemical, more about knowledge, discipline and technique. Go for the books NoBugs recommends. If you can't afford them or can't wait, read this, carefully. http://www.michigan.gov/documents/emergingdiseases/Bed_Bug_Manual_v1_full_reduce_326605_7.pdf You will need to change your act, which includes managing your room-mate or partner's behavior. The info in the Resource guides or books can help serve as ammo.

  19. Man in Black

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon Mar 12 2012 11:51:58
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    Thanks for the link. I guess I'm finally getting through to her - She did a major de-clutter this weekend, but has a way to go (A major pack rat, but getting better). I sent her the small article you linked about KQ, and told her "This is the best BB man in NYC - That's like being the Eric Clapton or Eddie Van Halen of pest control - and look at how thorough he is and the results he gets".

    The bug guy is still worthless, so it's still in my lap, but at least I'm getting some help from the roommate and plenty of good intel from this site and others. I know I have a war ahead of me, but with the info I'm collecting, at least I can prepare my battle plans properly.

    Thanks

    MIB

  20. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon Mar 12 2012 15:16:09
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    Hi,

    I would always caution people against assuming it is the chemical selections that experienced professional use that give them the results. There is a lot more to this kind of work which you only really understand with experience and a deep understanding of biology and behaviour of insects.

    To illustrate this point I once went out and spent a lot of money on canvasses, brushes and paints. I bought exactly the same brand that Dhali used since he is the artists I would most wish to emulate. Having spent many hours working away I took my work to an art dealer and was not shocked to hear it was worthless. I had the right tools and equipement but lacked the skills and life experience of the man himself. I lacked the skill to do what he did and resigned myself to buying his work instead.

    I now own two signed Dhali print which hang on the wall in my bedroom, the paints and camvasses weer donated to a worthy art project.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bedbug infestations in domestic and commercial settings. The patent numbers are GB2463953 and GB2470307.
  21. cilecto

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon Mar 12 2012 15:40:46
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    bed-bugscouk - 23 minutes ago  » To illustrate this point I once went out and spent a lot of money on canvasses, brushes and paints. I bought exactly the same brand that Dhali used since he is the artists I would most wish to emulate. Having spent many hours working away I took my work to an art dealer and was not shocked to hear it was worthless. I had the right tools and equipement but lacked the skills and life experience of the man himself. I lacked the skill to do what he did and resigned myself to buying his work instead.
    I now own two signed Dhali print which hang on the wall in my bedroom, the paints and camvasses weer donated to a worthy art project.

    You could still try and packtite a pocket watch...


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