Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Detection / Identification of bed bugs
Finding bugs but no bites - what do I do next?
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Louise
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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 58
Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 12:54:19
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Okay, so a week and a half ago, I found a bug floating in a bucket of water at our cabin. The PCO identified it as either a swallow bug or a bat bug (the antennae were damaged/missing, so she couldn't make an absolute identification). Makes sense, since we had a colony of bats in a wall last year - hopefully our exclusion efforts last fall were successful.
This past weekend, we went out and examined the beds in that room very carefully. Wouldn't you know it - we took the sheets off of the first bed and there was another of these bugs - waving at us from the mattress!!! We proceeded to check around all of the seams, in the boxsprings, on the frames - we vacuumed, washed the wood with Murphy's....nothing else.
We put the feet of one bed in glass jars, and the other (whose frame sits on the floor) we lined with duct tape. Before we had even finished laying the tape down, lo and behold, we spotted another one, stuck to the tape. (Pocket microscopes come in so handy sometimes!)
By the time we finished with the four in-use beds upstairs, we were exhausted (it was 2AM). My husband took the vacuum to the shed outside and just left it there without dealing with the bag. Grrr. The next day, when we threw out the vacuum bag, we found another bug in the storage compartment of the vacuum (dead).
I also found the casing of one in the windowsill of the same bedroom . Weird place for one, isn't it? Don't they prefer the dark?
I'm waiting for a positive ID from the PCO, as to whether these are bat bugs or swallow bugs (or - gulp - bed bugs, I suppose). My sense is it makes very little difference as to what they are ID'd as, since their MOs are all the same, correct? However, no one (to our knowledge) has had any bites, and I haven't noticed any signs of anything in the beds. There were some black spots on the "unaffected" bed in that same bedroom, but I'm not sure how long they've been there.
The PCO indicated that we can deal with these critters ourselves - we just have to be prepared to vacuum and wash the beds regularly (once a week?), and she suggested that rather than encasing the mattresses and boxsprings (which is expensive), we could just give the boxsprings and mattress bottoms a liberal spraying of Deep Woods OFF with 30% DEET. Unfortunately, I won't even use normal OFF outside, much less inside, so I'm just not comfortable dousing indoor furniture with the stronger stuff.
We already have Ficam D in our walls from when we had the place treated for carpenter ants last summer. Does that play in our favor, do you think?
My big question is :Do we wait for the bites, or do we do something else before then? I just *so* do not want to make a wrong move at this stage of the game. We brought everything out in plastic bins and zip-loc bags last weekend, and will continue to do so until we are convinced we're in the clear...but boy, it's a pain trying to convince one's children of the importance of NOT leaving stuff on the beds, and NOT switching the stuff in the Quarantine bag with the stuff in the Clean bag....aaaarrrrgggghhh!
Thank to anyone listening to my ramblings. I'd sure appreciate any input from people who are experienced with this stuff.
Louise
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Louise
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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 58
Posted 4 months ago
Thu Jul 2 2009 14:02:32
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Well, I found a company that does thermal treatments, so I'm thinking that is probably the easiest - and possibly least expensive in the long run! - way to go.
I am decidedly less stressed about this now. Although I'll still be keeping an eye out at home for any bug-related developments.
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Louise
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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 58
Posted 3 months ago
Tue Jul 21 2009 13:55:46
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UPDATE: My budget-conscious husband talked me out of the thermal treatment. So I cancelled (perhaps temporarily) until something further develops.
We did spend all of last week out at the cabin. The PCO had indicated that once we were spending more time there (building up the heat and carbon dioxide levels), we'd be likely to see some bites, since the little critters would be way-hungry.
I know one PCO I spoke with told me to tear away the wall panels to find out where their nesting sites were, and then they could come out and treat them. Sheesh. Like they'd still be there when the PCO arrived, and like we couldn't kill them ourselves if we found their nests! And as if we want to tear apart the entire cabin in order to find every possible nesting site. I don't think so!
At any rate, we weren't *completely* idle. We washed the bedding in the affected room (again), and encased the mattresses, boxsprings and pillows in the Wal-Mart "budget" covers (using a significant amount of duct tape along the edges and on anything remotely sharp-looking). We dismantled the bedframe that sat on the floor (and where we had found two of the bugs two weeks earlier), and doused it with Murphy's Oil orange spray as we examined it piece by piece. On one board of the frame, we found the carcass of one bug, and a casing right beside it, but it was larger and larval in appearance (and black) - I'm pretty sure it wasn't a bat bug/bed bug, but my heart did speed up when I first spied it. We removed the frame from the room carefully, and replaced it with a metal frame with feet (feet which are now in plastic containers coated with Vaseline). I washed every piece of furniture, as well as the walls, with the Murphy's, and my husband caulked every seam in the room - floor, walls, and ceiling. I painted the rustic windows in an attempt to eliminate any cracks there (since we found a casing on the frame). We found no bugs in the bed frame, on the beds, or anywhere else in the room that day, or all week. No casings, no fecal material, nothing. (Packing tape is lovely for picking things up off of the beds...or walls...or wherever...ah, I *love* packing tape - especially the stuff I can tear by hand).
And no one appears to have been bitten either, all week. I'm somewhat mystified.
I know I've read (and my husband has read) that bat bugs will die without their bat hosts, so perhaps that is what is happening here? I sure am *hoping* that this is what is happening/has happened.
My husband is prepared the shell out the $$$ for the cabin and the house (should we bring them home with us) if things develop further (although we'll need a loan to pay for it all!), but so far I'm beginning to think that *perhaps* his "wait-and-see" approach wasn't such a bad idea. Perhaps.
Time will tell.
In the meantime, I'm still scratching imaginary bites and praying for the best.
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Fearful_and_Buggy
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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 53
Posted 3 months ago
Tue Jul 21 2009 14:22:36
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Remember that not everyone reacts to bedbugs; you could be getting bites and not know it. Can you get some pictures here? Why did that PCO recommending ripping out the walls? Last I checked, they preferred to "nest" in the bed, in desks, etc.
Also its totally possible to go home without the bugs. Wash all your clothing in hot, hot water and then dry for 120 minutes, then bag it. Strip right before you enter your home (I know, I know) and put everything in a bag, then seal it with duct tape until you can wash it. Put all of your bags into the bathtub and inspect every inch for eggs, nymphs, and bugs. Don't let anything touch the floors, walls, etc.
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Louise
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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 58
Posted 3 months ago
Tue Jul 21 2009 16:51:24
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Right, I know that not everyone reacts to bites, and that could be the case here...although my son in whose bed we found the live bug does have skin that tends to react in obnoxious ways to just about everything...
That particular PCO recommended tearing open the walls because they are bat bugs, not bed bugs. The bats *were* in the wall (prior to their departure and subsequent exclusion last October), and so that is where these particular critters are going to be nesting...at least for now. Like I said, there is no sign of anything on any of the mattresses, boxsprings, bedframes or sheets (with the exception of one black spot on the sheet of the *other* bed - it didn't smear, though, and I have no idea how old that spot may or may not be...at least a month old, anyway.). Needless to say, *that* PCO did not really impress me all that much; if I'm going to hire a PCO, it will be to find and kill the bed bugs - he's supposed to be the expert, right? I suspect that he just wasn't all that interested...or rather, that he was very definitely UNINTERESTED in being hired for this job! : )
I'm doing my best to avoid bringing any bugs home NOW (plastic bins, zip-loc bags, minimizing time spent on the beds...heck, we're not even storing any clothing - beyond PJs in ziploc bags - in the bedrooms), but my concern is what we may have brought home *before* we were aware of these little critters, when clothing was sitting on the floor in cloth bags, and pajamas were worn in those beds and then brought home to sleep with at home in these beds. We've been sleeping in this cabin for three summers, and this year alone have been out most weekends since mid-May. I wonder how long it would take to see "signs" of them at home. Sigh. So far, no signs of anything, but I guess that could change.
Did I mention we have a number of children? It does make for a somewhat more complicated process (I can just imagine telling my teenaged daughter that she needs to strip before entering the house...some things just ain't going to happen. Not at this point, anyway....)
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Louise
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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 58
Posted 3 months ago
Thu Jul 23 2009 11:42:27
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Well, I just got word from the other PCO (not the "find them for us and we'll kill them for you" PCO) that the bugs are definitely bat bugs, and not bed bugs (she took them to an entomologist to confirm, because she didn't want to mis-identify them). She told me they can bite humans, but generally don't survive without their bat hosts, and isn't all that concerned at this point.
I think I'm relieved. Still paranoid (especially since I've noticed a couple of somewhat itchy, tiny red marks, each surrounded by a small welt...but on separate arms, not right beside each other) , but relieved.
I think I'll go read up on what bed bug bites look like...
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buggyinsocal
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,160
Posted 3 months ago
Thu Jul 23 2009 14:08:36
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Bug bites are notoriously difficult to identify. Basically, a well trained doc can tell you what group of bugs the bug that made the bite came from but can't tell you which exact bug within the group made the bite.
If the bug got IDed by an entomologist, unless you develop more bites and/or see any bed bug conclusive signs (cast skins, fecal matter, etc.), I would call this a very lucky close call. It gave you the opportunity to educate yourself about bed bugs, which gives you the chance to adopt good practices to minimize your chances of exposure in the future by following good sense protocols like inspecting your bedding monthly and inspecting hotels when you stay in them. But it sounds like this time around you dodged a bullet.
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Louise
I am concerned about the advice that you have been given ... I would urge you to consult with a PCO that has actual experience with bat bug eradication... Be sure that any live bats have been excluded from the structure.
You might want to consider utilizing DDVP strips in the cabin when you leave ... No Pest Strips can be used in the unoccupied cabin to target any remaining bat bugs .... Follow the label carefully or have an experienced PCO perform the treatment....
The bat droppings are a different issue .... Bat droppings can cause an indoor air quality issue due to the possibility of promoting the growth of a species of mold that has health implications for humans living in the structure....
Consult with qualified experts .... The organisms are called Histoplasma capsulatum and Cryptococcus neoformans.
DO NOT OPEN ANY WALLS YOURSELF to search for droppings or bugs ... Opening a wall without proper respiratory protection & engineering controls can amplify the problem, create a significant exposure for the person that opens the wall & increase the cost of a proper clean up.
I ended up on anti-fungal medications after developing Histoplasmosis following an exposure on the job a few years ago. The drugs are almost as dangerous as the mold... extremely toxic for the liver... I am not overly phobic about mold exposure, but this particular species is known to create serious health problems for some people.
An experienced air quality firm can perform careful testing to help determine whether a problem exists in the walls without amplifying the problem.
I hate delivering bad news like this ....
Send a PM, if I can provide any further assistance .... We have K9s that can identify the wall cavities that are affected by mold growth without opening the walls.... as well as K9s that can detect the presence of bat bugs ... Let us know how your situation progresses...
Procedures for Cleanup of Bird and Bat Droppings
Workers removing accumulations of bird or bat droppings are at risk of exposure to airborne fungal spores (and other Microbial hazards) likely to be released when this material is disturbed. Bird and bat droppings should be presumed to be contaminated with the fungi Histoplasma capsulatum, Cryptococcus neoformans, and other infectious hazards. The spores of some of these organisms can remain infectious for decades after their growth in the Guano has ceased. Many of these microorganisms are known to cause Respiratory infections in workers exposed during construction or maintenance disturbance.
NOTE: Although a Disinfectant will be applied during this work, the treated excrement may still contain viable organisms and use of personal protective equipment should continue until the site is well cleaned..... -
Louise
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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 58
Posted 3 months ago
Fri Jul 24 2009 1:01:18
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Thanks for the input, guys.
No worries - we had no plans to open the walls. We caulked every seam in that room instead. I know there's bound to be bat guano in there - I have no interest in having to deal with that as well. Is it a health hazard just *being* in the walls? If so, there are an awful lot of cabins I know with that problem.
I hadn't thought of testing the air quality. I will talk to my husband about doing so. Would a thermal treatment for the bugs also deal with the mold, do you think?
I will look into the strips as well. Is a respirator needed to handle those? Are they for over the winter, or for each time we leave? Good idea.
Now as long as I haven't brought any home with me in the meantime, things are looking up.
I think.
Thanks again!
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Louise
Opening the walls would create the exposure event that would raise serious concerns about health.
Depending on where you are located... The mold organisms may not be present ... The primary issue is that the bat droppings are a potential bio-hazard.... I became alarmed when I read that your PCO wanted you to open the walls to look for bugs ... I doubt that they informed you of the need to wear professional quality respirators, gloves & protective clothing (PPE) or how to use plastic sheeting to build a containment system.
You can perform air sampling for screening, but the preferred solution is always source removal.... Encapsulation is also utilized is some cases ... It depends on the construction of the building ... If air flows through the affected areas into the interior, then it can be an issue for sensitized or health compromised occupants. Occupants with pre-existing health or immune system issues are at the greatest risk.
I agree that it is likely a common problem with other cabins in the area & may not pose any risk to health, if the material remains undisturbed. The risk increases substantially, if the material is disturbed & becomes airborne.
If the affected areas can be accessed from the outside of the building, then the clean up is greatly simplified ...
Here is a link to the EPA Mold Remediation Guidelines
http://www.epa.gov/mold/mold_remediation.htmlLet me know if I can provide any further information or assistance... I hope that I have not created more stress for you, but I became alarmed when I read about your PCOs advice to open the walls.
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Louise
junior member
Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 58
Posted 2 months ago
Wed Sep 2 2009 18:24:43
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Hi, Doug!
Thanks so much for all of your advice; I so appreciate every bit of it. And I apologize for my tardiness in replying: two weeks of vacation was followed by the flu, which was followed by pneumonia. Blech. I'm just *so* thankful that I didn't have pneumonia AND bugs to deal with!
The PCO who told me to open the walls was not "my" PCO - I was just looking for a second opinion. Truly, it was all I could do not to laugh at his "recommendations". If we ever replace the windows, though, it's clear that we may- will - have some extra challenges.
In the meantime, there have been no further signs of the bugs themselves, or of anything they like to leave behind. Perhaps bat bugs do need the bats after all. Here's hoping.
I have to say that staying in hotel is no longer much fun. What a lot of work checking each bed!!! And the things one finds. Eeeeew. Ignorance is bliss, I think, in that sense.
Having encased all the beds at the cabin in vinyl encasements, I am now beginning the process at home (bit by bit) with the AllerZip encasements; it is just SO much easier and quicker to check the beds when they're encased! And it seems like it's only a matter of time before we're exposed to The Real Thing: my sister-in-law had a bed-bug scare this summer, and my husband's boss had TWO!!! I feel surrounded by the little monsters. I hope this paranoia fades somewhat...
Thanks again!
Louise
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