Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Uncategorized
Finally something works!!
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Sat Jun 27 2009 17:06:01
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Weekend up date:
15 nights bug bite free....with more bugs found this morning in the ring of death. One bb found in bed.....dead. I squished it....no blood....didn't feed.
Also, a continued reduction overal in bb's from my spraying in other area's of the apartment....and finding dead bugs in those locations also.
What do you so-called experts have to say NOW? Nope, didn't think so!
Hey, you can't blame me as some of you bashed the hell out of me. Well, you were WRONG! The bb's are reducing, and no, they arn't just "hiding in other locations".
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DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Sat Jun 27 2009 23:02:33
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Excellent news, how did one get in your bed ? Double check your bed again make sure you clean out every one so that you know your bed is bug free. You have checked other areas ? Did you try yourself as bait ? Are they just in one room ? How many times are you spraying now I would go for 30 days at this point and reduce it, to once a week. I support you 100%.
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Sun Jun 28 2009 17:24:43
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Thanks! Well, the one that made it to my bed probably got through the ring of death....but doa. It wasn't bloated, no blood when I squished the little bugger, which means it didn't have a chance to feed.
As of this past Friday, i'm now spraying just once a week. Will spray again next Friday, and so on.
I live in an apartment and have seen bb's in ALL rooms....bedroom, living room, kitchen, bathroom....even on the balcony. But like iv'e said in earlier posts....their's been a significant reduction in sightings since iv'e been spraying. And I know it's far more than they're just "hiding in other locations" because I see dead bb's wherever iv'e sprayed. Like the baseboards, cracks/crevices, etc. So I know the spray is working not ONLY as a repellent....but overal eradication.
No, havn't done the live "bait" scenario you suggested....but probably will soon. It's a good idea.
DragonFlight - 18 hours ago »
Excellent news, how did one get in your bed ? Double check your bed again make sure you clean out every one so that you know your bed is bug free. You have checked other areas ? Did you try yourself as bait ? Are they just in one room ? How many times are you spraying now I would go for 30 days at this point and reduce it, to once a week. I support you 100%. -
DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Sun Jun 28 2009 19:04:56
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Thanks! Well, the one that made it to my bed probably got through the ring of death....but doa. It wasn't bloated, no blood when I squished the little bugger, which means it didn't have a chance to feed.
It got though the ring of death and it did manage to climb the bed or just around the leg of the bed you saw it ?
As of this past Friday, i'm now spraying just once a week. Will spray again next Friday, and so on.
I live in an apartment and have seen bb's in ALL rooms....bedroom, living room, kitchen, bathroom....even on the balcony. But like iv'e said in earlier posts....their's been a significant reduction in sightings since iv'e been spraying. And I know it's far more than they're just "hiding in other locations" because I see dead bb's wherever iv'e sprayed. Like the baseboards, cracks/crevices, etc. So I know the spray is working not ONLY as a repellent....but overal eradication.
As I said I support you. Compared to before you sprayed how much of a percentage would you say there is a reduction ? Have you caulked some baseboards etc ?
No, havn't done the live "bait" scenario you suggested....but probably will soon. It's a good idea
I would try it very soon, let them come for you but I'd do it between 3-6 am which is peak time, hopefully they come for you and do it in the room where you think there is the most still active. What about your furniture what is the condition of it?
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 20:12:18
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Well, I would have to say their's been aprox 60-70% reduction overal, maybe more. I'm not seeing nearly the bugs I use to see before I started spraying.
I just use a boxspring (no legs) and mattress, so they don't have far to climb. I don't have the "conventional" type bed. I find this more comfortable. Actually, I like a mattress on the floor....but that would be far too easy for the bb's, lol.
Yes, iv'e chaulked, but not finished.
I got rid of my old bed, and sofa....nothing else.
DragonFlight - 2 days ago »
Thanks! Well, the one that made it to my bed probably got through the ring of death....but doa. It wasn't bloated, no blood when I squished the little bugger, which means it didn't have a chance to feed.
It got though the ring of death and it did manage to climb the bed or just around the leg of the bed you saw it ?
As of this past Friday, i'm now spraying just once a week. Will spray again next Friday, and so on.
I live in an apartment and have seen bb's in ALL rooms....bedroom, living room, kitchen, bathroom....even on the balcony. But like iv'e said in earlier posts....their's been a significant reduction in sightings since iv'e been spraying. And I know it's far more than they're just "hiding in other locations" because I see dead bb's wherever iv'e sprayed. Like the baseboards, cracks/crevices, etc. So I know the spray is working not ONLY as a repellent....but overal eradication.
As I said I support you. Compared to before you sprayed how much of a percentage would you say there is a reduction ? Have you caulked some baseboards etc ?
No, havn't done the live "bait" scenario you suggested....but probably will soon. It's a good idea
I would try it very soon, let them come for you but I'd do it between 3-6 am which is peak time, hopefully they come for you and do it in the room where you think there is the most still active. What about your furniture what is the condition of it? -
BugBoy911
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 21:35:01
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Jason1 - 1 week ago »
Still no bites. That's 4 nights in a row now, after, as I mentioned before, getting bitten every night for several months. I'm continuing to spray evey night.....around the bed, isolating it completely. The only way the bb's can get to me is by crossing the barrier....and so far, they arn't. I think after this week, i'm gonna start spraying around the bed every 2-3 days, rather than everyday.....and see what happens. I'm just not sure how strong this stuff is if it's not applied daily. Maybe it doesn't need to be applied daily, just don't know yet....but i'll find out if they start attacking me again!My point exactly! All you awsome people being attacked by bedbugs and you go out and charge hundreds of dollars or thousands to companies who clam their experts in bedbug control, and 2 treatments later, 3, 4, 5, 6, and so on and your sill getting bites right!?! There's only one main reason for this, and I"ll clue you in.... open your eyes close.... Its called HOURLY PAY.... You honestly think that the technician from a fancy pest control company making $15 an hour is really gona give you %150 dedication and even the time of day to help you? Well mabye a little, yet in most cases its worse than when he started! These extremelly high fee's in %90 of the cases I"ve seen go into Mr. Boss's new mercedes, or a pool for his family. Why not ask the boss to come down and do the treatment, mabye he'll actually do a good job knowing that he's making $800 for a few hours of his life... If you as a novice pesticide user can pick up a over the counter gallon of Home Defense which is I beleive Bifenthrin "talstar," and permethrin, which by the way permethrin is one of the most toxic of all pesticides to use when it comes to mammals, you saw with your own eyes, how when you actually care, and wana do good for somebody, its a whole different ball game. I"m not gona encourage everyday citizens to go out and purchase pesticides for situations like this, yet it just makes me wana vomit when I hear how much these boss's are making, and how much there payin there men. Lets see.... Boss $800........ Technician with 3 years experience 3 licenses $30.00 oh wait... Taxes.... $24.50..... Thats for 2-3 hours lets say for hard, dangerous, laborsome work. Client "oh yea, he sprayed around, flipped the mattress, left everything soaked, and I still have bedbugs." End of Story
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 22:38:14
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That is precisely why a PCO will NEVER, ever, darken my door step again!
Enough money was wasted on them. Several months in fact, and they were a complete and utter bust. Something is very wrong when I can come into my apartment, 6 hours after treatment....and find bb's crawling on the wall, floor, etc. And don't give me this bullshit that they "havn't had a chance to die yet", or some such crap, because that's all it is....crap!
Not saying PCO's are ALL bad, but the ones I had were certainly no damn good. A money-making machine, that's about it!
Self treatment, weeks later, and I havn't dropped dead from the otc spray iv'e been using (now once a week treatment) imagine that, lol.
I notice the tree-huggers and alarmists are very quiet now....quiet as church mice a matter of fact.
All I know is i'm getting rid of the bb's....that is CERTAIN!
BugBoy911 - 45 minutes ago »
Jason1 - 1 week ago »
Still no bites. That's 4 nights in a row now, after, as I mentioned before, getting bitten every night for several months. I'm continuing to spray evey night.....around the bed, isolating it completely. The only way the bb's can get to me is by crossing the barrier....and so far, they arn't. I think after this week, i'm gonna start spraying around the bed every 2-3 days, rather than everyday.....and see what happens. I'm just not sure how strong this stuff is if it's not applied daily. Maybe it doesn't need to be applied daily, just don't know yet....but i'll find out if they start attacking me again!My point exactly! All you awsome people being attacked by bedbugs and you go out and charge hundreds of dollars or thousands to companies who clam their experts in bedbug control, and 2 treatments later, 3, 4, 5, 6, and so on and your sill getting bites right!?! There's only one main reason for this, and I"ll clue you in.... open your eyes close.... Its called HOURLY PAY.... You honestly think that the technician from a fancy pest control company making $15 an hour is really gona give you %150 dedication and even the time of day to help you? Well mabye a little, yet in most cases its worse than when he started! These extremelly high fee's in %90 of the cases I"ve seen go into Mr. Boss's new mercedes, or a pool for his family. Why not ask the boss to come down and do the treatment, mabye he'll actually do a good job knowing that he's making $800 for a few hours of his life... If you as a novice pesticide user can pick up a over the counter gallon of Home Defense which is I beleive Bifenthrin "talstar," and permethrin, which by the way permethrin is one of the most toxic of all pesticides to use when it comes to mammals, you saw with your own eyes, how when you actually care, and wana do good for somebody, its a whole different ball game. I"m not gona encourage everyday citizens to go out and purchase pesticides for situations like this, yet it just makes me wana vomit when I hear how much these boss's are making, and how much there payin there men. Lets see.... Boss $800........ Technician with 3 years experience 3 licenses $30.00 oh wait... Taxes.... $24.50..... Thats for 2-3 hours lets say for hard, dangerous, laborsome work. Client "oh yea, he sprayed around, flipped the mattress, left everything soaked, and I still have bedbugs." End of Story
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 22:43:53
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Jason1 (and DragonFlight),
I would guess that others are keeping quiet now because they've realized you did not come here for input on your plans, and have no intention of listening to anything anyone says unless they are cheering you on.
Frankly, I am not sure why you're here, since you disagree so fully with what almost everyone here is saying.
No one said you would not be able to kill some bed bugs.
People warned of a possible repellent action (WHICH IS NOT A GOOD THING, DragonFlight -- but like I said, neither of you are listening).
People also warned of possible health effects.
Since you've been doing this for a few weeks, it is too early to claim that neither has resulted. It's also way to early to claim success.
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spideyjg
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 22:55:44
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Nobugsonme - 9 minutes ago »
Jason1 (and DragonFlight),
I would guess that others are keeping quiet now because they've realized you did not come here for input on your plans, and have no intention of listening to anything anyone says unless they are cheering you on.
Frankly, I am not sure why you're here, since you disagree so fully with what almost everyone here is saying..Bingo.
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 23:10:41
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One of the most valuable things I learned in terms of how to participate in online discussions is that you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. When peoples' opinions are deeply entrenched, nothing I say is going to change their minds.
At that point, I adopt a very simple motto: DNFTEC.
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 23:25:02
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People can WARN all they like....but when i'm taking the precautions i'm taking, I know what i'm doing is pretty much harmless. And that is FACT....as it's been pointed out in this thread more than once, and i'm not talking about me or Dragon pointing them out either.
BTW, I have to wonder if some of you know how to read? How many times do I have to say it......I'm NOT just using the spray as a "repellent".....got it? man, lol, how many times do I have to say the same thing??
Obviously chemicals have to be used with "caution"..... everyone knows that for Christ sake, but AGAIN, and read very, very, carefully this time.....I'M TAKING PRECAUTIONS. Jeeez, I really hate having to use caps and scream....but some of you alarmists just don't get it, do you?
I'm also wondering, if the fact that self-treatment is working for certain people, perhaps that worries some? I think so, that's the only reasonable explanation. As others have said....pest control, especially pests that "supposedly" can't be controlled.....is a money-making bonanza....with seemingly no end to the feeding troff!
You wonder why i'm here? well, iv'e read very interesting messages in these threads, helpful with great ideas. Iv'e also said a thousand freaking times....."spraying" isn't the ONLY thing i'm doing....it's just been the most helpful....and some of the ideas I have gotten, and implimented, are from people off this board. Also, i'm here to share what's working for "me".....giving others the option of trying it in their treatment regime, if they so wish. Obviously i'm going to get a little p!ssed when certain people do nothing but BASH what i'm doing, without listening to the whole story. IE, precautions, my other lines of attack, etc!
Nobugsonme - 25 minutes ago »
Jason1 (and DragonFlight),
I would guess that others are keeping quiet now because they've realized you did not come here for input on your plans, and have no intention of listening to anything anyone says unless they are cheering you on.
Frankly, I am not sure why you're here, since you disagree so fully with what almost everyone here is saying.
No one said you would not be able to kill some bed bugs.
People warned of a possible repellent action (WHICH IS NOT A GOOD THING, DragonFlight -- but like I said, neither of you are listening).
People also warned of possible health effects.
Since you've been doing this for a few weeks, it is too early to claim that neither has resulted. It's also way to early to claim success. -
Jason1
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Posts: 224
Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 0:00:32
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Yes, I may have to adopt that myself ;) lol
buggyinsocal - 49 minutes ago »
One of the most valuable things I learned in terms of how to participate in online discussions is that you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. When peoples' opinions are deeply entrenched, nothing I say is going to change their minds.
At that point, I adopt a very simple motto: DNFTEC. -
BTW, I have to wonder if some of you know how to read? How many times do I have to say it......I'm NOT just using the spray as a "repellent".....got it? man, lol, how many times do I have to say the same thing??
Jason,
You're misunderstanding things. It's not about your INTENT when using this spray. REPELLING bedbugs to new hiding spots (through misuse of pesticides) is something that happens regardless of what purposes and hope you have in mind. If your intentions could override realities, why not intend for this spray to deliver world peace and winning lottery numbers?
Another unwanted consequence is breeding new generations of bedbugs with increased RESISTANCE to this pesticide.
You're spraying this stuff all over the place. You've seen a reduction in bedbugs, but you're still seeing bedbugs. When the surviving bugs breed, future generations of bugs in your home will be even more resistant to available pesticides, and, therefore, even more difficult to kill.
Bedbugs suck. You're frustrated, and it sounds like you've had some piss-poor "professional" treatments earlier. But, what you're doing risks sabotaging yourself in the long run. I'm not even talking about side effects to your health because of exposure to pesticides. I'm talking about having and spreading bedbugs for a very very long time. People reading this should know that.
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DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 7:56:07
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Well, I would have to say their's been aprox 60-70% reduction overal, maybe more. I'm not seeing nearly the bugs I use to see before I started spraying.
That is excellent, but how did that one manage to get into your bed, do you think that it dragged itself into your bed and just then died ? And that 60-70% reduction is in total your whole house ?
NoBugsonMe - It is not about disagreeing it's about fact, what Jason and BugBoy911 are stating is true. I could see if it's a major infestation you would have to call in a PCO, I'd recommend just moving and throwing away over 70% of your stuff, not spending thousands on PCO. I don't know many people who would allow a major infestation to occur unless they had some medical problems or something of that nature where throwing out things or moving was too costly both physically and financially. Jason is a young guy and I'm sympathetic to his problem, he picked them up somehow and is very determined to get rid of them he has already shown over 60% reduction which in all honestly is damn good, don't you agree ? You are under estimating anyone who takes it into there own hands, those who spend extensive time researching know what they are like and know one of two things a)there small b) there flat so that means they know they can hide easy. Then again so can roaches, you wouldn't suggest calling a PCO for roaches would you ? My mother went though a bad roach problem and she had called a few PCO and in all the visits by the PCO companies, most had said that she did a very good job in controlling it herself, we understand bed bugs are different in how they are but they do share some similarities.
At that point, I adopt a very simple motto: DNFTEC.
What made up acronym is that ?!?!?! I've also spend a lot of time on online discussion so I know how to hold my own very well.
Where can you justify in saying he is repelling them ? If he is seeing a 60%+ reduction, on top of it caulking as suggested by many on this board how is that repelling !?!?!?!? Could it be that because he hasn't called a PCO that he has angered the PCO community ? I'm one for animals and the environment, I may know more about issues related to these topics then some of you preaching about there love for the environment. I wonder if some of you are contradicting yourself on one hand you say don't use chemicals then on the other hand your eating tuna, and eating meat which is killing other species. If Jason can eliminate bed bugs by himself with chemicals and other concoctions one would think you would be happy for the guy, but it appears don't want to see him do it himself unless he calls the PCO.
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Then again so can roaches, you wouldn't suggest calling a PCO for roaches would you ?
Generally no. In my italian forum devoted to pest control problems, I (almost) always suggest to eliminate roaches DIY in homes. It's easy, cheap and harmful to get rid of them with gel baits, so I put online a lot of instructions that explain how to use gel bait indoor. Gel insecticide is low toxic, long lasting (up to 6 months) and easy to use . No problem.
Gel Baits (in italian)My mother went though a bad roach problem and she had called a few PCO and in all the visits by the PCO companies, most had said that she did a very good job in controlling it herself
I guess you have no idea of what a real "bad" roach problem is.
we understand bed bugs are different in how they are but they do share some similarities
.They're both insects, they're both nocturnal and very reproductive. What now?
Considering BBs as if they were comparable with roaches means underextimating BBs, and it's a classical mistake that most of (unexperienced) PCOs unfortunately still do.I'm one for animals and the environment, I may know more about issues related to these topics then some of you preaching about there love for the environment. I wonder if some of you are contradicting yourself on one hand you say don't use chemicals then on the other hand your eating tuna, and eating meat which is killing other species.
Animalism and respect (not love) for the environment aren't the same. I'm not animalist but, in the same time, I'm extremely respectful to environment.
A real animalist should open his doors to bedbugs, and feed them daily with his blood... they're soooo starved.... why are you searching to keep them out?
I guess a sort of racism against bedbugs... altough they're God's creature too...
It's the same old song: All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others...;-)If Jason can eliminate bed bugs by himself with chemicals and other concoctions one would think you would be happy for the guy, but it appears don't want to see him do it himself unless he calls the PCO.
I NEVER said he has to call a PCO. He can do it himself, but in a responsible way.
Treating every day first and then every week with a (very) long lasting insecticide it's a nonsense and it's irresponsible. Living in an overtreated environment is not healty and potentially dangerous. I wonder if he knows that there is something called "chronical intoxication" due to continue exposure.
In another post you told him to use a vacuum cleaner after treatments... well, that's really dangerous because the vac keeps up molecules of insecticides, spreading them in the air from its rear. This way you breathe them and that's not so healty...Some years ago, I was called to "refine" the work of another firm against BBs in a 4 stars hotel.
They sprayed Dursban (Chlorpyriphos, really more toxic than bifenthrin) every other day for two weeks in two infested rooms. The smell was horrible (Dursban is stinky) and there were a lot (teens) of death BBs near the baseboards.
But there where hundreds of live BBs well hidden in strange, unusual places, and my inspection revealed that there where 14 rooms infested (an entire floor), not only two as said before.
And, of course, it was not a "refining" works... I had to do three (well done) treatments with pyrethroids (yes, they works if well used) to exterminate all them.
The strenght of an insecticide , or using it really often isn't the key to resolve BBs problems.
A (supposed) 60-70% reduction after two weeks is a really poor result, considering the high number of treatments and the quantity of sprayed insecticide.
When I use insecticides, 15 days is the period of time between the first and the second treatment, and the third one (a sort of security one) is done after other 15 days, if needed.
But that's just one of the stategies I apply to fight against bedbugs, not the only one.
The strategy has to be decided case by case, environment by environment, and it depends from the infestation level and from a lot of other different factors. In some case I use LN2, in others insecticides and sometimes a simple "serch and kill or remove them" method.
In some particular cases I even treated rooms with smokers (lot of experts advice against them here) to solve the problems, and they were effective. But I used them in an unusual way, based on my experience and knowledge (experts are right, smokers are generally ineffective and make BBs spread...).None of the "so-called experts" said that Jason "has to call" a PCO. But they all said he's fighting BBs with a wrong, potentially harmful and dangerous treating strategy, and that he has not the knowledge and the experience to correctly value his results and the possible consequences of his actions.
Frankly, I don't see so many differences between his "finally working" strategy and the failing one (spray and pray) that a lot of PCOs still apply.... -
DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 11:17:31
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I guess you have no idea of what a real "bad" roach problem is.
In all honestly it was pretty bad, and my mother would be one to tell her story if she wanted to but she did manage to control it, fairly well. Until new tenants moved in and then it took over in which case moving it the only situation.
I NEVER said he has to call a PCO. He can do it himself, but in a responsible way.
Treating every day first and then every week with a (very) long lasting insecticide it's a nonsense and it's irresponsible. Living in an overtreated environment is not healty and potentially dangerous. I wonder if he knows that there is something called "chronical intoxication" due to continue exposure.
In another post you told him to use a vacuum cleaner after treatments... well, that's really dangerous because the vac keeps up molecules of insecticides, spreading them in the air from its rear. This way you breathe them and that's not so healty...I agree that, breathing in chemicals over a long period can cause problems. If Jason is only doing this over a short period which I believe he will be until he solves it and by short period I mean up to six months, on a on and off basis I don't see any real effects happening that he isn't already getting with pollution, or second hand smoke, or bad air, or I could go on and on. I never mentioned to vacuum up chemicals, besides he's spraying down a water type substance which you can't vacuum up, I have never heard of anyone spraying water on a counter and vacuuming it up, I can understand for DE but he hasn't applied DE yet. Have confidence in the guy that when he does he will take the right steps. The search and kill method I suggested as well, as it can be effective if the numbers are not that high. The smoking method you mentioned, I'm skeptical about since bed bugs like Carbon Dioxide and cigarettes emit Carbon Dioxide.
There are many PCO that don't know what they are doing, for every one good PCO they're over three hundred that are sour. I don't recommend spending hundreds on a hope that they will find that one good PCO, that is just not financially logical for most people. As I've read on this forum there has been quite a few who have gone the PCO route that some on this forum are so linear on doing, but will point the finger when I or others suggest not to go that route. Some of those that have every so strictly followed the advice of others and went that PCO route have had bed bugs return, why is that ? Simple sour PCO or there returning to the way they lived prior to having bed bugs kept them coming back over and over and over again.
What products can Jason or others use ? They don't know where they can find potent products such as Chlorpyriphos, bifenthrin and I myself asked with no response where can I get a spray that is potent with pyrethroids. Jason found has found such a product that contains Bifenthrin and he went for it, probably unaware at the time of purchase that that he had found something with such an ingredients until after when he was realizing it was working.
Give him credit, it it works and he eliminates them all over time by himself. I'm sure he has learned and it won't happen again to him when he overcomes it.
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The smoking method you mentioned, I'm skeptical about since bed bugs like Carbon Dioxide and cigarettes emit Carbon Dioxide.
Er... a "smoker" it's a water-activated cartridge that generates insecticide smoke (Cy-phenothrin based)... When or where did I talk about cigarettes?
Bifenthrin it's a pyrethroid...
Don't know in USA, but in Europe Chlorpyriphos (not a pyrethroid) it's actually forbidden... too strong and too dangerous for domestic employs...
If Jason is only doing this over a short period which I believe he will be until he solves it and by short period I mean up to six months, on a on and off basis I don't see any real effects happening that he isn't already getting with pollution, or second hand smoke, or bad air, or I could go on and on.
A weekly treatment for up to six months means a total of 24 treatments or more... bifenthrin lasts (in soil, where is exposed to degradation by bacteria and organic substances) from 7 days up to 8 months. In house is not submitted to this degradation, and so may last longer...
6 months is not a "short period" and pyrethroids insecticides attack nervous system.
More than this, bifenthrin is a class II insecticide, so is "a little" worst than normal pollution or second hand smoke or bad air...
"I believe" and "I see" are nonsenses if you don't own a solid knowledge of insecticide.I never mentioned to vacuum up chemicals, besides he's spraying down a water type substance which you can't vacuum up, I have never heard of anyone spraying water on a counter and vacuuming it up, I can understand for DE but he hasn't applied DE yet.
There is a misunderstanding problem... when you spray, you spray water and insecticide. When it dries up, a thin layer of insecticide "powder" rest on every treated surface and, if you vacuum, you keep it up and spread it in the air you breath. It's ok now?
In a overtreated environment there is a high quantity of "spreadable" insecticide powder, even if you can't see it...About the lack of knowledge and professionality in a greater part of the PCOs, I sadly agree with you. Most of PCOs work on fixed paths and strategies (to kill A, use B) and appear incapable to get out from this action line.
Curiously, not one of them partecipates to this forum... -
DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 12:33:29
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Er... a "smoker" it's a water-activated cartridge that generates insecticide smoke (Cy-phenothrin based)... When or where did I talk about cigarettes?
You never stated that is what you meant :) !
A weekly treatment for up to six months means a total of 24 treatments or more... bifenthrin lasts (in soil, where is exposed to degradation by bacteria and organic substances) from 7 days up to 8 months. In house is not submitted to this degradation, and so may last longer...
6 months is not a "short period" and pyrethroids insecticides attack nervous system.
More than this, bifenthrin is a class II insecticide, so is "a little" worst than normal pollution or second hand smoke or bad air...
"I believe" and "I see" are nonsenses if you don't own a solid knowledge of insecticide.A little worse, not much so therefore I can't see that much harm, if he is a perfectly healthy male and he keeps things well ventilated, I'm sure he can reduce the toxics.
There is a misunderstanding problem... when you spray, you spray water and insecticide. When it dries up, a thin layer of insecticide "powder" rest on every treated surface and, if you vacuum, you keep it up and spread it in the air you breath. It's ok now?
In a overtreated environment there is a high quantity of "spreadable" insecticide powder, even if you can't see it...Alright, that it true unless you don't let it soak into the surface which can take 12-24+ hours.
About the lack of knowledge and professionality in a greater part of the PCOs, I sadly agree with you. Most of PCOs work on fixed paths and strategies (to kill A, use B) and appear incapable to get out from this action line.
Curiously, not one of them partecipates to this forum...Exactly. Hopefully you and others can tell PCO to participate in forums, particularly this one where it's active. Then again a lot of PCO are hard heads they believe they know what they're doing is right, and so be it.
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DragonFlight - 4 hours ago »
Well, I would have to say their's been aprox 60-70% reduction overal, maybe more. I'm not seeing nearly the bugs I use to see before I started spraying.
That is excellent, but how did that one manage to get into your bed, do you think that it dragged itself into your bed and just then died ? And that 60-70% reduction is in total your whole house ?
NoBugsonMe - It is not about disagreeing it's about fact, what Jason and BugBoy911 are stating is true... he has already shown over 60% reduction which in all honestly is damn good, don't you agree ? You are under estimating anyone who takes it into there own hands, those who spend extensive time researching know what they are like and know one of two things a)there small b) there flat so that means they know they can hide easy....
Where can you justify in saying he is repelling them ? If he is seeing a 60%+ reduction, on top of it caulking as suggested by many on this board how is that repelling !?!DragonFlight,
Although I have been reading about bed bugs and talking to people about them for 3+ years, I do not claim to be an expert on pesticides. I HAVE read enough to know that over- and mis-use of pesticides may cause repellency. Do your research.
I am not a PCO and do not benefit if you call one. There ARE DIY methods I think you can safely and successfully use, and I would not say you should NEVER use pesticides. I just think you have to use them safely and effectively. I am not going to go another round on why I think these methods might not be safe.
There is no way in which Jason can be sure that since he is SEEING 60% fewer bed bugs, that he HAS 60% fewer bed bugs. Again, do the research.
The bottom line is, go away for 6 months. Only once bed bugs are gone for 6 months can you claim this is a good method. And even then, potential health effects cannot be seen.
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Ehm... "a little more" between quotation marks is ironic...
that it true unless you don't let it soak into the surface which can take 12-24+ hours.
Mmmm... that's not true: a water based insecticide dries up in a very few teens of minutes, and a lot of surfaces can't be "soaked"... so there is always an insectide layer where you treat, and more if you treat too often or too much....
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DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 12:54:31
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Although I have been reading about bed bugs and talking to people about them for 3+ years, I do not claim to be an expert on pesticides. I HAVE read enough to know that over- and mis-use of pesticides may cause repellency. Do your research.
I realize this, this goes for any insect.
There is no way in which Jason can be sure that since he is SEEING 60% fewer bed bugs, that he HAS 60% fewer bed bugs. Again, do the research.
He did mention he has done a investigation within his apartment and has seen a reduction , of course that one can't justify in 60 days that there gone. In my opinion 90 days has sufficient weight. What if he or others don't get any health effects what do you say about that ? You seem very focused on health effects NoBugsOnMe, why is that personal experience ?
Mmmm... that's not true: a water based insecticide dries up in a very few teens of minutes, and a lot of surfaces can't be "soaked"... so there is always an insectide layer where you treat, and more if you treat too often or too much....
Effeci, this is true but what I mentioned before well ventilated, and no wanting to lick where you sprayed to test consistency :)
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spideyjg
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 13:07:02
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Label states how to apply and has a 12 month residual effect.
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DragonFlight
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Wed Jul 1 2009 13:13:46
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Again, my question wasn't answered what if he or others don't get any health effects ?
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 13:14:53
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ad hominem approaches always increase a person's credibility. Especially when combined with post hoc ergo propter hoc.
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DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 13:34:37
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ad hominem approaches always increase a person's credibility. Especially when combined with post hoc ergo propter hoc
What did you just say ?
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Badwolf
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 13:40:46
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spideyjg - 26 minutes ago »
Label states how to apply and has a 12 month residual effect.
http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/ortho/perimeter_bug_killers/indoor_bugs/pdf/019511020%207-11-08.pdfIntersting to see that the formulation used in Canada is different than the one used in the States. According to the Canadian label there is No Bifenthrin in the product: http://www.homedefensemax.ca/images/en/pdf/Home_Defense_709mL.pdf I wonder which formulation is more toxic.
I sent an e-mail today to the Canadian contact number asking them if they've done any studies with this on Bedbugs. I live in Toronto and wouldn't mind using this as a perimeter defence in the future to keep things out.
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DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 14:02:39
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Well the product Jason is using is the Canadian one, since he lives in Canada.
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DragonFlight - 1 hour ago »
What if he or others don't get any health effects what do you say about that ? You seem very focused on health effects NoBugsOnMe, why is that personal experience ?I have been reading about the experiences of others, for years. People have had health problems.
EffiCi has commented on this much better than I can.
And about effectiveness? You cannot know for a long time whether they are gone or whether they were perhaps driven back by a repellent effect (INTENDED OR OTHERWISE).
Anyway, I think I am done.
But please: if people become quiet again? Don't assume we agree with you.
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And DragonFlight, by the way --
When people write to talk about how wonderful their PCO was? I also often tell them to go away and tell us how great it was after six months.
I am the first to acknowledge all PCOs are not the same. Their performance can't be reviewed after a few weeks of treatment, and neither can Jason's.
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DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 14:40:46
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I have been reading about the experiences of others, for years. People have had health problems
.What were the extent of the problems ? What percentage were serious ?
And about effectiveness? You cannot know for a long time whether they are gone or whether they were perhaps driven back by a repellent effect (INTENDED OR OTHERWISE).
Alright, so lets give the benefit of the doubt and Jason happen to eliminate or others for that matter using a chemical method and 90 days go by with no signs your honestly going to tell me that he or others were not successful ? You seem to really be against anyone doing it own there own, I sense anger from it.
But please: if people become quiet again? Don't assume we agree with you.
We don't want people trying to solve it on there own, that is No, No. I won't assume especially from someone like you.
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Intersting to see that the formulation used in Canada is different than the one used in the States. According to the Canadian label there is No Bifenthrin in the product: http://www.homedefensemax.ca/images/en/pdf/Home_Defense_709mL.pdf I wonder which formulation is more toxic.
Permethrin!
Well... I feel less worried about Jason's healt... it has very low toxicity for humans, but may be easy lethal for cats
It's higly repellent and generally considered not so effective against BBs. -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 15:01:29
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LOL, this is just getting plain ridiculous. Not you, Dragon, or the others in support of my efforts....the "alarmists and doom sayers".
So predictable, the same things, over and over and over agian!
I really appreciate your support, and that you're able to construct conversation with these people to support what you're saying. Iv'e tried, but this is IT....it's like talking to a wall. I will now take your advice and no longer explain myself. I just don't have any patience for such narrow-minded folk.
I have pointed out a thousand times now the precautions i'm taking....with PROVEN facts to back me up, outlining how what i'm doing is next to harmless over the time period i'm doing it. I have also pointed out, as have you and others....how every day pollution is FAR WORSE than what i'm doing.
As well, iv'e pointed out my treatment regime is NOT confined to ONLY spraying.
As for "repelling" bugs into hiding, creating a worse situation. I say bullshit, no facts to back that up as it relates to bb's. And if their is....it does NOT mean it applies to all chemicals, sprays, etc....or EVERY situation.
Fact is, I do have at least a 60% reduction overal in bb's. That is a fact. Of course i'm guessing % wise....but after almost a year of these things, I think my estimate is pretty close. Although, it may be closer to 75%. If they are hiding "elsewhere"....it seems i'm killing them where they're hiding. You guy's arn't here are you? so you don't know how many dead bb's i'm finding where iv'e sprayed. Not ALL cases are the same, period. With the chalking iv'e done, etc, their is only so many places they can go. I'm eliminating as many as I can.
And again, if you experts are so smart.....why do you, and the pco's, admite you know very "little" about bb's? If that's the case, maybe some of you should just put a sock in it and let people like me, do what is working for "them".....and share it with others. We are supposedly all "adults" in here, and can think for ourselves.
We don't need hall monitors telling us what we are doing is harmful, etc, with nothing to back that statement up!Dragon, you're absolutely right....the PCO community hate what i'm doing. It's costing me less than 40 dollars per month....rather than the hundreds/thousands they charge. Same as the drug companies.....a "cure" is the LAST thing they want.
I'm sure the 1700 page views is p!ssing a few people off too, lol. I notice this is one of the most visited threads on the entire board. Why? because something actually WORKS for someone, costing very little money. Rather than paying thousands of dollars and going into debt....only to discover, MUCH OF THE TIME....the pco's were a failure!
DragonFlight - 6 hours ago »
Well, I would have to say their's been aprox 60-70% reduction overal, maybe more. I'm not seeing nearly the bugs I use to see before I started spraying.
That is excellent, but how did that one manage to get into your bed, do you think that it dragged itself into your bed and just then died ? And that 60-70% reduction is in total your whole house ?
NoBugsonMe - It is not about disagreeing it's about fact, what Jason and BugBoy911 are stating is true. I could see if it's a major infestation you would have to call in a PCO, I'd recommend just moving and throwing away over 70% of your stuff, not spending thousands on PCO. I don't know many people who would allow a major infestation to occur unless they had some medical problems or something of that nature where throwing out things or moving was too costly both physically and financially. Jason is a young guy and I'm sympathetic to his problem, he picked them up somehow and is very determined to get rid of them he has already shown over 60% reduction which in all honestly is damn good, don't you agree ? You are under estimating anyone who takes it into there own hands, those who spend extensive time researching know what they are like and know one of two things a)there small b) there flat so that means they know they can hide easy. Then again so can roaches, you wouldn't suggest calling a PCO for roaches would you ? My mother went though a bad roach problem and she had called a few PCO and in all the visits by the PCO companies, most had said that she did a very good job in controlling it herself, we understand bed bugs are different in how they are but they do share some similarities.
At that point, I adopt a very simple motto: DNFTEC.
What made up acronym is that ?!?!?! I've also spend a lot of time on online discussion so I know how to hold my own very well.
Where can you justify in saying he is repelling them ? If he is seeing a 60%+ reduction, on top of it caulking as suggested by many on this board how is that repelling !?!?!?!? Could it be that because he hasn't called a PCO that he has angered the PCO community ? I'm one for animals and the environment, I may know more about issues related to these topics then some of you preaching about there love for the environment. I wonder if some of you are contradicting yourself on one hand you say don't use chemicals then on the other hand your eating tuna, and eating meat which is killing other species. If Jason can eliminate bed bugs by himself with chemicals and other concoctions one would think you would be happy for the guy, but it appears don't want to see him do it himself unless he calls the PCO. -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 15:17:13
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That is what iv'e said....but certain people don't know how to read, that's why I give up on them.
I will continue doing what i'm doing and will hopefully be bb free, the end!
Badwolf - 1 hour ago »
spideyjg - 26 minutes ago »
Label states how to apply and has a 12 month residual effect.
http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/ortho/perimeter_bug_killers/indoor_bugs/pdf/019511020%207-11-08.pdfIntersting to see that the formulation used in Canada is different than the one used in the States. According to the Canadian label there is No Bifenthrin in the product: http://www.homedefensemax.ca/images/en/pdf/Home_Defense_709mL.pdf I wonder which formulation is more toxic.
I sent an e-mail today to the Canadian contact number asking them if they've done any studies with this on Bedbugs. I live in Toronto and wouldn't mind using this as a perimeter defence in the future to keep things out. -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 15:20:20
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It doesn't matter....the doom sayers and pco peeps will have some other ridiculous excuse why it's going to kill me, lol. It could be made with jello and they would say it's BAD!
DragonFlight - 1 hour ago »
Well the product Jason is using is the Canadian one, since he lives in Canada. -
I beg your pardon
You only had to say "the insecticide I'm using is permethrine based" to avoid the greatest part of this 2 page discussion... so don't blame others, thank you.
You are simply ridiculous sustaining that there is a sort of plot against the use of Permethrine from PCOs in this forum and everywhere.
Permethrine is an old, well known insecticide, registered (I don't remember exactly when) in the last '70s . It's been employed a lot since then, and that's why there are a lot of resistent BBs (and cockroaches) strains. It's widely used for routinary domestic pest control (in my opinion, too widely)
It's higly repellent, and thats why is often applied as a perimetral insecticide (kill & keep out).
I didn't say it's not effective at all. I said that's generally considered not so effective.
I've tried different product permethrine-based in last years, and unfortunately the results were not so good, I said unfortunately because Permethrine is not expensive and has low toxicity for humans, so it might have been a good tool. In my experience, it isn't.
Permethrine is working in your case? I'm happy for you (but still convinced you're overtreating, that's a fact) and I hope you will exterminate them ASAP.And again, if you experts are so smart.....why do you, and the pco's, admite you know very "little" about bb's? If that's the case, maybe some of you should just shut the fuck up and let people like me, do what is working for "them".....and share it with others. We are supposedly all "adults" in here, and can think for ourselves.
We don't need hall monitors telling us what we are doing is harmful, etc, with nothing to back that statement up!Dragon, you're absolutely right....the PCO community hate what i'm doing. It's costing me less than 40 dollars per month....rather than the hundreds/thousands they charge. Same as the drug companies.....a "cure" is the LAST thing they want.
That's insulting. And deeply stupid too.
I won't discuss with you again here or in others threads.Period. -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 19:40:01
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I'm pretty sure not enough, if any, studies were done by Ortho regarding bb's. If they were, I think bb's would definately be listed as being treatable. They will likely give you their standard "handbook" explanation.
This is the problem, not nearly enough in known about bed bugs, especially since they've only recently resurrected themselves, the last 4 or 5 years. Their's been like a 50 year span where we heard very little, if anything, about bb's. You can be sure if they could carry disease.....alot more would be getting done about the problem. I for one don't understand how it's "impossible" for bb's NOT to carry disease??.....but that's what they say, so whatever. It just seems to me, if a bb can bite one person.....take their blood, then bite someone else.....well, you get the picture. I just don't get it.....but I also don't know enough about it, either.
Anyway, no matter what arguments people want to make....their is no question, none, that this spray works well in perimeter defence situation(s). ...if that's what you want it for. I'm proof of that. The "experts" even admit it could work in repellent/defence scenarios. They just don't think that's a "good thing".....while I dissagree, and not alone in my thinking.
Now of course I think (know) it's just as effective as an "overal" spray, also, but i'm not getting back into that as everyone knows what I think!
Badwolf - 5 hours ago »
spideyjg - 26 minutes ago »
Label states how to apply and has a 12 month residual effect.
http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/ortho/perimeter_bug_killers/indoor_bugs/pdf/019511020%207-11-08.pdfIntersting to see that the formulation used in Canada is different than the one used in the States. According to the Canadian label there is No Bifenthrin in the product: http://www.homedefensemax.ca/images/en/pdf/Home_Defense_709mL.pdf I wonder which formulation is more toxic.
I sent an e-mail today to the Canadian contact number asking them if they've done any studies with this on Bedbugs. I live in Toronto and wouldn't mind using this as a perimeter defence in the future to keep things out. -
DragonFlight - 5 hours ago »
Alright, so lets give the benefit of the doubt and Jason happen to eliminate or others for that matter using a chemical method and 90 days go by with no signs your honestly going to tell me that he or others were not successful ?
...
We don't want people trying to solve it on there own, that is No, No. I won't assume especially from someone like you.DragonFlight,
Two points:
1) I never said that if Jason came back having been free of bed bugs for months, that I would not call him successful at having killed his bed bugs. I simply said it is too early to claim his methods are successful. As I said, this is true whether you're in the MIDST of treatment from a PCO, or self-treatment.
2) BS. I am not against people trying to fight bed bugs on their own. I think it's not the right choice for most people, because most are not willing to do the necessary research and the work. The methods, well, that's another story.
Please do not misrepresent my points.
I wish you and Jason1 well, but I would not encourage others to follow this treatment plan.
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spideyjg
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 21:19:12
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What a couple of fucking ingrates!
Christ on a crutch there is more to the war than just spraying and you haven't laid out the other actions you are taking to see if there are any suggestions. Oh wait that is right all us dumb asses that beat this little fucking bastards don't know shit!
Great Jason you are having some success and have found a and I stress a, viable weapon but other techniques may enhance your odds. Oh I forgot I don't know shit.
Now on the odd chance I am not one of the "so called experts" you have to weigh all the evidence to evaluate what is happening to gauge your success.
What life stages are you finding?
How long since they last bit you?
Are the dead full of blood?
Where is the lair?
Could they be coming from your neighbor?I applaud when people are finding dead bugs because dead bugs are good bugs. Like Nobugs said regardless of treatment, progress is good.
I'm out of this shit!
Jim
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Jason1
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Wed Jul 1 2009 22:17:03
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Oh my, a little angry are we, lmfao!!
What's the matter, your boss pissed you havn't shut me up yet?
As I said in my previous post....i'm done trying to explain the same things to some of you people over and over again.
I HAVE laid out the other steps i'm taking, but unfortunately you have a problem reading....and i'm not repeating them for the 100th time.
Tell your boss I said hello....then tell him you called me a "fucking ingrate" but I still didn't go away. Maybe if you're lucky you'll get a bonus for at least trying!
spideyjg - 48 minutes ago »
What a couple of fucking ingrates!
Christ on a crutch there is more to the war than just spraying and you haven't laid out the other actions you are taking to see if there are any suggestions. Oh wait that is right all us dumb asses that beat this little fucking bastards don't know shit!
Great Jason you are having some success and have found a and I stress a, viable weapon but other techniques may enhance your odds. Oh I forgot I don't know shit.
Now on the odd chance I am not one of the "so called experts" you have to weigh all the evidence to evaluate what is happening to gauge your success.
What life stages are you finding?
How long since they last bit you?
Are the dead full of blood?
Where is the lair?
Could they be coming from your neighbor?
I applaud when people are finding dead bugs because dead bugs are good bugs. Like Nobugs said regardless of treatment, progress is good.
I'm out of this shit!
Jim
SCE -
paulaw0919
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 22:25:18
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Jason, you are the ideal picture on an idiot. Period. I've admired and "lmfao" at your comments. Just look at how who you protray yourself in this thread!! Really look back at yourself for some self reflection. My Lord ignorance is bliss (and thick too for that matter) I truly feel sorry for you. You done your parents proud I'm sure. Done.
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 22:57:53
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Well at least you "admire" some of my comments, lol.
Don't feel sorry for me....I have a pretty good life except with this bb problem that is taking up far too much of my time. Although, it does look like it's coming to an end, I hope!
Iv'e noticed how you alarmists are VERY angry, just like your post. Who do YOU work for? I'm sorry but you are far too obvious.
I have not called people "fucking ingrates", called them "idiots", nor have I made ignorant comments about ones "parents"....like YOU did. By the way....my parents ARE proud of me, sorry about that big guy.
Again....there is a reason for your anger. Maybe it is YOU who needs reflection?
paulaw0919 - 25 minutes ago »
Jason, you are the ideal picture on an idiot. Period. I've admired and "lmfao" at your comments. Just look at how who you protray yourself in this thread!! Really look back at yourself for some self reflection. My Lord ignorance is bliss (and thick too for that matter) I truly feel sorry for you. You done your parents proud I'm sure. Done. -
Jason1,
You have been disrespectful of multiple people on the forums, including all of the PCOs who give their time and energy in assisting people here free of charge.
To be blunt, cut it out. Or go away. Civility is valued here.
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Thu Jul 2 2009 0:25:02
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LMFAO!!!!!!!!! Civility is valued here?? pot calling kettle.
Yet it's ok to call people "fucking ingrates", "stupid", "idiot", and comments about their "parents"?
That's juse fine with you huh?? Ok, I can play that game to, can I? Scratch that.....i'm not so immature.
Nobugsonme - 7 minutes ago »
Jason1,
You have been disrespectful of multiple people on the forums, including all of the PCOs who give their time and energy in assisting people here free of charge.
To be blunt, cut it out. Or go away. Civility is valued here. -
suspicious
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Posted 4 months ago
Thu Jul 2 2009 7:51:37
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Jason,
I agree that others shouldn't have called you those names. No excuse for that.
It is, also, fair to state that you didn't clear up in the beginning that the spray didn't contain Bifenthrin from the start which leads me to think that you didn't know yourself. Just sayin'.
I think that the PCO's have only said what anyone with common sense would say...You don't need to spray it every day or every single week.
If you are spraying it that much it only makes sense that it will hurt you. I wouldn't spray RAID that much in my home. RAID is over the counter and everyone uses it. I think that you have found something that seems to be working for you but you need to hunt out the hiding places of the bugs...seek and destroy...to kill them.
I wish you luck because I think you are at the end of your rope with this. I truly do.
However, I hope that you understand that the professionals here were NOT trying to undermine you, they were trying to HELP you. They thought for the majority of this thread that you were using a spray with Bifenthrin. You never said one word to clear that up. Even so, I would take their advice and tell them thank you for their time. Because they are only doing it out of want to help you or others that fall on this thread.
It is not for any other reason. They are good people.
I hope you can see that.
I don't think they want to see you fail. I think that they don't want to see you have harmed your health in winning. It is that. No more.
I think that you shouldn't need to spray so much. I think you are spraying way too much!
I have read the instructions for the product.
Please be careful because we don't want you to get hurt in the process of getting rid of these bugs.
We do want you to get rid of them. I am sure everyone agrees on that. OK?
Now, smile! And don't spray so much....can't you spray every two weeks for only a few months? That should be enough to get rid of them if this stuff is really working? Right?
Otherwise, it is not the magic solution. Is it?
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Thu Jul 2 2009 12:52:53
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Hey, suspicious, thanks for your comments.
Don't take this the wrong way as it's not directed towards you....but i'm tired of repeating myself over and over with some of these questions. I know YOU havn't asked them before, but many have....and iv'e given the answers....MANY times, lol.
So, for the questions I don't answer in this post....please review some of my earlier posts for them, if you still want them. IE: the other steps i'm taking, like chauking, vac, etc.As for spraying....I disagree. I think it's now been established the spraying i'm doing, once a week....is next to harmless. I find it kinda funny....a matter of fact, I was laughing to myself last night about this. Some of the so-called experts have been saying how permethrin acts as a "repellent"....and in most cases, isn't a good idea.
Now, what is funny, is that the pco's I was using, two different companies....for almost a year....both used a product called "dragnet". Well, guess what the main ingredient is in Dragnet? That's right, Permethrin. So not only is it funny, it's also a little, actually, more than a little...."hypocritical" to say the least. Also, the permethrin i'm using....@0.25%, is four times less potent than the 1% the pco's were using to treat my apartment. The spraying they did was once a week....which is the same as what i'm doing, once a week. So if my health is at risk NOW, it was at risk even more with the pco's. Like I said....it's four times as potent.
As for "Bifenthrin"....if these so-called experts, are really experts, they should have known what is and what is not in the damn product.....especially since it's pretty widely used by many people. I stated I was from Canada in my very first message in this thread, as well as other messages.
I AM seeking out, and destroying bb's. Again, read my earlier posts.
No one said my spraying was the magic solution, now did they? no, but it IS helpful, that is fact....a lot more helpful than anything else has been in almost a year, ie: the pco's.
No, i'm not spraying too much....i'm spraying exactly as often as what the pco's were spraying, once a week. The difference is....i'm getting results, GOOD results, while they were not.
Thank's again for your comments.
Happy 4th to all my US neighbors!
suspicious - 4 hours ago »
Jason,
I agree that others shouldn't have called you those names. No excuse for that.
It is, also, fair to state that you didn't clear up in the beginning that the spray didn't contain Bifenthrin from the start which leads me to think that you didn't know yourself. Just sayin'.
I think that the PCO's have only said what anyone with common sense would say...You don't need to spray it every day or every single week.
If you are spraying it that much it only makes sense that it will hurt you. I wouldn't spray RAID that much in my home. RAID is over the counter and everyone uses it. I think that you have found something that seems to be working for you but you need to hunt out the hiding places of the bugs...seek and destroy...to kill them.
I wish you luck because I think you are at the end of your rope with this. I truly do.
However, I hope that you understand that the professionals here were NOT trying to undermine you, they were trying to HELP you. They thought for the majority of this thread that you were using a spray with Bifenthrin. You never said one word to clear that up. Even so, I would take their advice and tell them thank you for their time. Because they are only doing it out of want to help you or others that fall on this thread.
It is not for any other reason. They are good people.
I hope you can see that.
I don't think they want to see you fail. I think that they don't want to see you have harmed your health in winning. It is that. No more.
I think that you shouldn't need to spray so much. I think you are spraying way too much!
I have read the instructions for the product.
Please be careful because we don't want you to get hurt in the process of getting rid of these bugs.
We do want you to get rid of them. I am sure everyone agrees on that. OK?
Now, smile! And don't spray so much....can't you spray every two weeks for only a few months? That should be enough to get rid of them if this stuff is really working? Right?
Otherwise, it is not the magic solution. Is it? -
rjames
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Posted 4 months ago
Thu Jul 2 2009 14:14:45
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It's funny how a product that's only 25% the potency of the 'pro' grade stuff is doing a better job.. makes you think. Thanks for the tip though. It's very very very difficult to find advise other than to 'call a professional' online and quite honestly in this day and age if there isn't a solution to a problem that costs under $100 many of us are out of luck. If someone were willing to treat my house for 100 bucks or less, and do a reasonable job I'd be right on board (I understand why that's probably not even possible, let alone profitable). Until then, I'm on my own and any success story helps.
Oh, and something that is working for me - its a Conair fabric steamer. We went to wal-mart just to price them but for $30 we bought it right away and it works great. Kills the bugs instantly, not sure about the eggs (yet). It's not a 'dry steam' but it works. As a bonus is cleans things better then I've ever seen. -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Thu Jul 2 2009 16:52:16
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You know, rjames, that is a damn good question. Yes, it DOES make one think.....and I have been wondering the same.
You're welcome about the tip.
Yes, it can be VERY costly to hire pco's, which is why it's great we can have threads like this where people, such as myself, and others, can post messages regarding treatment methods that are working/helping....at least for us, in our particular situations, whatever they may be.
We are all supposed adults around here, and can think for ourselves.....no matter how desperate we are, and many are desperate....but that doesn't mean we can't think for ourselves. If people want to try some other line of action, besides costly pco's.....they can do so. As you said, not everyone has that kind of disposable cash.....especially in these hard times with the jobless situation/economy.
30 bucks for a fabric steamer, are you kidding me? wow that's cheap. That would be great to have on hand!
rjames - 2 hours ago »
It's funny how a product that's only 25% the potency of the 'pro' grade stuff is doing a better job.. makes you think. Thanks for the tip though. It's very very very difficult to find advise other than to 'call a professional' online and quite honestly in this day and age if there isn't a solution to a problem that costs under $100 many of us are out of luck. If someone were willing to treat my house for 100 bucks or less, and do a reasonable job I'd be right on board (I understand why that's probably not even possible, let alone profitable). Until then, I'm on my own and any success story helps.
Oh, and something that is working for me - its a Conair fabric steamer. We went to wal-mart just to price them but for $30 we bought it right away and it works great. Kills the bugs instantly, not sure about the eggs (yet). It's not a 'dry steam' but it works. As a bonus is cleans things better then I've ever seen. -
It's funny how a product that's only 25% the potency of the 'pro' grade stuff is doing a better job.. makes you think.
It's not funny, it just impossible.
I guess it doesn't depend from concentration (being the same substance, effectiveness grows with it) but from formulation. The insecticide used by PCO was probably simply Permethrine-based, while the one Jason is applying has some coformulants isotiazoline-based.
That might make the difference, and sounds interesting. -
Badwolf
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Posted 4 months ago
Thu Jul 2 2009 20:37:52
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I heard back today from the makers of Ortho Home Defence. I had mentioned to them that it was being used by some people to control bed bugs, and I asked them if they had any studies and/or were planning to do any studies to see what level of efficacy the Canadian and US formulations could achieve against BB's.
They replied back with a standard 4 paragraph email of what BB's are (I had no idea that they're sometimes referred to as "red coats" or "mahogony flats". lol), how to identify and physically eradicate them (vacuum, steam etc) and at the end of the rambling email, they added this:
"We do not have a product that will control bed bugs.
Again, thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your interest in Scotts. Please feel free to contact our company anytime we may be of assistance."
Jillian Leiter
Consumer Response Representative
The Scotts Company and Subsidiaries
14111 Scottslawn Road
Marysville, OH 43041=======================================
I have to say that I was disappointed with their failure to even address my question. I'm hoping that these companies are scrambling to develop something that will work well (it will be a goldmine for them in the coming years)
-
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Thu Jul 2 2009 20:51:37
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LOL, what did I tell you yesterday? You will get their standard, handbook reply.....and that is exactly what you got.
I don't like it either, and think they should do some research, as least, on bb's. Like you said, it could/will be a gold mine.
Maybe I should email them this thread, with my story. Royalty fees when they realize their product may be effective for bb control afteral ;)
Badwolf - 10 minutes ago »
I heard back today from the makers of Ortho Home Defence. I had mentioned to them that it was being used by some people to control bed bugs, and I asked them if they had any studies and/or were planning to do any studies to see what level of efficacy the Canadian and US formulations could achieve against BB's.
They replied back with a standard 4 paragraph email of what BB's are (I had no idea that they're sometimes referred to as "red coats" or "mahogony flats". lol), how to identify and physically eradicate them (vacuum, steam etc) and at the end of the rambling email, they added this:
"We do not have a product that will control bed bugs.
Again, thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your interest in Scotts. Please feel free to contact our company anytime we may be of assistance."
Jillian Leiter
Consumer Response Representative
The Scotts Company and Subsidiaries
14111 Scottslawn Road
Marysville, OH 43041
=======================================
I have to say that I was disappointed with their failure to even address my question. I'm hoping that these companies are scrambling to develop something that will work well (it will be a goldmine for them in the coming years) -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Thu Jul 2 2009 20:53:58
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I was thinking it has something, maybe, to do with the "other" ingredients in the spray i'm using. Is that basically your thinking, in what you're saying?
EffeCi - 34 minutes ago »
It's funny how a product that's only 25% the potency of the 'pro' grade stuff is doing a better job.. makes you think.
It's not funny, it just impossible.
I guess it doesn't depend from concentration (being the same substance, effectiveness grows with it) but from formulation. The insecticide used by PCO was probably simply Permethrine-based, while the one Jason is applying has some coformulants isotiazoline-based.
That might make the difference, and sounds interesting. -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Sat Jul 4 2009 14:54:42
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Just a quick update.
It's now been 3 weeks....without bites during the night.
The barrier is still holding, i'm spraying once a week. Once a week spraying also including baseboards, cracks/crevices, and everywhere else iv'e mentioned in previous posts. I'm now considering once every two weeks, spraying.
I have finished the. chaulking.
The overal reduction in bb sightings is quite remarkable at this point. IF they are simply hiding....they are doing a damn good job. With all the chaulking, etc, I have done.....I really don't know where they COULD be hiding. But I also know, as small as they are, they can hide pretty much anywhere.
I remain very encouraged in that i'm still finding dead bugs in the places i'm spraying.....including around, and in, the ring of death surrounding my bed. Not finding as many though as I believe most are being killed off....not all.
Too early to claim 100% success....but I honestly believe i'm getting closer than ever.
I do know THIS, though.....it's been a huge success already in terms of my overal mental health, lol. Can't tell you what a relief it is to actually go to bed without "fear". May sound silly to some, but it's true, I actually dreaded going to bed at night. Not anymore. I forgot what it was like getting more than 1-4 hours of sleep.....often, 0!
Will keep posted!
-
rjames
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 10:40:19
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Just an update from my neck of the woods.. After the through steaming, the problem didn't go away - however - I picked up a 1.33 gallon jug of Ortho Home Defense Max and WOW Jason is NOT kidding. Day one of spraying in a similar manner as him, and my son (the only one really with any bites or signs) woke up only one live bug on the bed (down from 5-6) and two of those rusty smears. Day two - Nothing but dead bugs around the crevices where the bunk bed frame pieces connect. Day three - NOTHING. Now, I'm not dumb, I know that they are probably there, but this stuff works. His skin is clearing up, he is sleeping better, my wife and I are sleeping better knowing that he is, and all around it is working GREAT. We did do a very through cleaning, and threw out his mattress (no box spring on his bunk bed - which BTW only has a top bed, the underneath is just more play room), along with my daughter's mattress + box spring. My son currently has a airbed until we are confident enough to get a new mattress for him.
Oh, a side note on the Ortho and mattress - we have a old concrete slab out back that used to be a garage. Just for the heck of it, I put his old mattress on it and sprayed it all over with the Ortho, then covered with a tarp (so the rain wouldn't wash away the chemical). The next day it looked like a BB massacre. There was a pile of hundreds of them, all dead. It was GLORIOUS!!
NOTE from Admin: under no circumstances should anyone apply anything to a mattress outside of labelling instructions. This can be very hazardous to your health. I think rjames is saying s/he did this with a mattress no longer intended for use, but I am not certain, and it is important that people do not do this on a mattress and then use it.
Jason, after reading your posts here, I can COMPLETELY understand where you are at. Its almost too simple to be working, but it is. Now we have a really clean and tidy house - not that it wasn't before, but a good spring cleaning makes things look nice + steam cleaned, so there's that.. and best of all the bugs are in remission.THANK YOU x1000 for the tip - thank you thank you thank you.
oh, and thank you
-
Badwolf
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 12:24:42
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Great to hear that the Ortho is working as well for others, as it has for Jason.
rjames - Did you use the Canadian or U.S. formulation?
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rjames
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 13:38:17
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Its the US formula. The main ingredient is Bifenthrin, I did notice Jason was using the Canadian formula, but I figured what have I got to lose? So far so good..
I might have considered the drive to a Canadian Home Depot to get their formula if this didn't work. I'm in southern NH, so its not too far.. :)
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BedBugBatty
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 14:46:37
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Hi everyone. I have also taken the bait on trying Ortho's Home Defense Max (US formula). After months of failing to eradicate (only contain them) with extensive laundry/ziplock bagging everything + vacuuming, giant plastic bags for furniture, and using diatomaceous earth/drione/delta dust along with TWO ultimately unsuccessful PCO visitations, this seems to have done the trick. I've always worked to be extra doubly careful about cleaning up residual dust, which has ultimately resulted in a dead vacuum cleaner. It's the start of week 2 for me, and I have not had a single bite since spraying this stuff. (as opposed to before, when daily bites were routine).
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 17:27:35
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Well i'll be damned, guess i'm not full of crap and "exagerating" afteral, lol.
That's awesome. So happy to hear how well it's working for you.
As for myself, if you read my latest up-date....i'm now into week 4, no bites. Not only that, I havn't seen any bb at all in the last 2 days....i'm serious! That's pretty remarkable considering what I had before.....when nothing the pco's did helped.
I'm not calling this the silver bullet, but considering how well things are going....it's hard not too! I'm finding less and less bugs everyday, that are dead, where iv'e sprayed, and considering all the chaulking iv'e done....if they are hiding, I have no idea WHERE!
Nope, I think i'm just killing them off.It's strange, but maybe the "Bifenthrin" isn't the "main" ingredient afteral? I mean, their isn't any in the Canadian version....yet i'm getting pretty much the exact same results as you are? Perhaps it's the other ingredients, who knows. What I do know is Ortho should make this available for BB users.....then send me some royalty checks, haha!
Some have said Bifenthrin can "possibly" be harmful if sprayed/inhaled dailey....so take that into consideration. But you're probanly not spraying daily, so it's most likely not a concern for you. And as long as your place is well ventilated....and you leave for a few hours, I would think it would be ok.
Thank's for the kind words....and you're very welcome!
rjames - 6 hours ago »
Just an update from my neck of the woods.. After the through steaming, the problem didn't go away - however - I picked up a 1.33 gallon jug of Ortho Home Defense Max and WOW Jason is NOT kidding. Day one of spraying in a similar manner as him, and my son (the only one really with any bites or signs) woke up only one live bug on the bed (down from 5-6) and two of those rusty smears. Day two - Nothing but dead bugs around the crevices where the bunk bed frame pieces connect. Day three - NOTHING. Now, I'm not dumb, I know that they are probably there, but this stuff works. His skin is clearing up, he is sleeping better, my wife and I are sleeping better knowing that he is, and all around it is working GREAT. We did do a very through cleaning, and threw out his mattress (no box spring on his bunk bed - which BTW only has a top bed, the underneath is just more play room), along with my daughter's mattress + box spring. My son currently has a airbed until we are confident enough to get a new mattress for him.
Oh, a side note on the Ortho and mattress - we have a old concrete slab out back that used to be a garage. Just for the heck of it, I put his old mattress on it and sprayed it all over with the Ortho, then covered with a tarp (so the rain wouldn't wash away the chemical). The next day it looked like a BB massacre. There was a pile of hundreds of them, all dead. It was GLORIOUS!!
Jason, after reading your posts here, I can COMPLETELY understand where you are at. Its almost too simple to be working, but it is. Now we have a really clean and tidy house - not that it wasn't before, but a good spring cleaning makes things look nice + steam cleaned, so there's that.. and best of all the bugs are in remission.
THANK YOU x1000 for the tip - thank you thank you thank you.
oh, and thank you -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 17:34:20
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Excellent!
That's one thing, among others, that I havn't done....."bagging". It just sounds like such a nightmare to go through all that.
Good luck....hope things continue going as well as they are now!
BedBugBatty - 2 hours ago »
Hi everyone. I have also taken the bait on trying Ortho's Home Defense Max (US formula). After months of failing to eradicate (only contain them) with extensive laundry/ziplock bagging everything + vacuuming, giant plastic bags for furniture, and using diatomaceous earth/drione/delta dust along with TWO ultimately unsuccessful PCO visitations, this seems to have done the trick. I've always worked to be extra doubly careful about cleaning up residual dust, which has ultimately resulted in a dead vacuum cleaner. It's the start of week 2 for me, and I have not had a single bite since spraying this stuff. (as opposed to before, when daily bites were routine). -
Bifenthrin is a class II insecticide... be careful and do not spray too often, because it's extremely persistent. Is NOT labeled for spraying mattresses.
-
I believe we can't get this stuff in NY. What's a New Yorker to do?
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Badwolf
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 19:37:25
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bait - it's readily available through Amazon.com
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 20:46:46
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I don't see why not, unless it's a "state" thing? If it's because of the "Bifenthrin" content, maybe you can order the Canadian version like I use....considering i'm getting the same results without Bifenthrin. Or, as BW suggests....order if off Amazon. Not sure if the postal service, UPS, etc, inspect domestic packages from Amazon, in case for whatever reason it's banned in NY!
bait - 1 hour ago »
I believe we can't get this stuff in NY. What's a New Yorker to do? -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 20:50:53
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Is "permethrin" in the USA version, and if so, at what percentage?
Just curious, thanks!
rjames - 7 hours ago »
Its the US formula. The main ingredient is Bifenthrin, I did notice Jason was using the Canadian formula, but I figured what have I got to lose? So far so good..
I might have considered the drive to a Canadian Home Depot to get their formula if this didn't work. I'm in southern NH, so its not too far.. :) -
Here is the list of active ingredients off the label
Active Ingredient
Bifenthrin*. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.05%
Other Ingredients . . . . . . . . 99.95%
*Cis isomers 97% minimum, trans isomers 3% maximum
US Patent No. 4,238,505
NET/NETO 1/2 GAL / 1.89 LHere is a link for the label
http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/ortho/perimeter_bug_killers/indoor_bugs/pdf/019511020%207-11-08.pdf -
Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 23:10:17
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Thanks. Permethrin isn't listed....but maybe it's in the "other" ingredients.
I'm wondering, because if permethrin isn't in the USA product, and Bifenthrin isn't in the Canadian version....yet it seems by the testimonials, so far, that pretty much the same results are occuring in both products....which leads me to believe perhaps it's one, or some, of the OTHER ingredients, besides permethrin and Bifenthrin, that are the real catalysts? LOL, I dunno, just thinking!
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Badwolf
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 23:22:06
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Jason - Perhaps the Ortho's 'other' ingredients provide for a more efficacious delivery of the chemical vs. the PCO products? If PCO's are using more potent products, you would expect them to achieve much better results than the Ortho. If the Ortho is producing such amazing results, then perhaps it's formulation is structured in such a way that the BB's absorb the chemicals at a higher dose/rate than the PCO chemicals are able to achieve. Of course, I'm just speculating here.
Since the Canadian formulation is using a weaker chemical than the US one, but is also producing such great results, then I suspect that the Ortho's formulation for delivering those chemicals may be at the heart of it's success. The fact that Ortho claims it has a 12 month residual is another reason why I'm thinking that this is why it's achieving it's high kill rate.
-
I would be cautious against jumping on board with a treatment method someone has suggested here.
In Jason1's case, he has been treating for several weeks, still has bed bugs (so it is too soon to declare his methods a success, or to say there were not negative effects of any kind).
Many entomologists and pesticide experts *and many experienced bed bug sufferers* have also cautioned above against his frequency of treatment and the possible repellency which may result.
Contrary to what jason1 keeps claiming, we are not against doing it yourself per se. However, this site was established to spread good information for people suffering from bed bugs, BY people suffering from bed bugs. We've heard a few stories in the last 3 years.
We try to warn newbites against methods which
*may cause repellency, or
*may make problems worse, or
*may cause health problems, or
*which do not take into account the efficiency with which a multi-pronged approach of integrated pest management including pesticides and dusts used as needed (and not overused) can get rid of bed bugs. -
And, jason1, just so you know, I am posting the above for the benefit of others who may come along.
I am not interested in debating further with you, since you have not read my previous comments closely.
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Jason1
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jul 7 2009 23:45:45
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Excellent points!
I guess we could pull out our hair trying to figure it out.
Suppose all that matters, is that it works....and works very well it would seem.
Badwolf - 21 minutes ago »
Jason - Perhaps the Ortho's 'other' ingredients provide for a more efficacious delivery of the chemical vs. the PCO products? If PCO's are using more potent products, you would expect them to achieve much better results than the Ortho. If the Ortho is producing such amazing results, then perhaps it's formulation is structured in such a way that the BB's absorb the chemicals at a higher dose/rate than the PCO chemicals are able to achieve. Of course, I'm just speculating here.
Since the Canadian formulation is using a weaker chemical than the US one, but is also producing such great results, then I suspect that the Ortho's formulation for delivering those chemicals may be at the heart of it's success. The fact that Ortho claims it has a 12 month residual is another reason why I'm thinking that this is why it's achieving it's high kill rate. -
DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 8 2009 1:10:34
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I'm so glad that Jason success rate has jumped drastically. I would also like to mention first off that the email notification system has become flaky over the past week and it should be looked into.
From the posts that I've read there were about one or two posts that came off with a condescending tone towards Jason which honestly was that called for ? Second one must understand that Jason has had a nightmare of a ordeal with these bugs so he is under stress and like others with bed bugs they were under stress as well, correct ! I'm also glad that others have jumped aboard and purchased this product and are experiencing amazing results, I myself have recently picked up this product as well. In regards to why the the PCO based pecticide not as effective as the Ortho based pesticide is simple, why would the PCO community make there pesticide as equal or better then that which resides in the Ortho product when they can make recurring visits and charge ? One has to also worry that the PCO companies will get there hand in and collectively find a way to reduce the effectiveness of this product or even worse find a way to remove it off the shelves completely. Also to the person who posted that Ortho never mentioned the product was for bed bugs, why would they ? They never did testing on bed bugs to conclude that.
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Badwolf
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 8 2009 1:51:09
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DragonFlight - I doubt there's a PCO conspiracy, especially considering that PCO's have been sounding the alarm about BB's for many years now. The current epidemic of BB's was something that PCO's and others (university researchers etc...) predicted would happen - their warnings, ofcourse, falling on the deaf ears of city councils and other gov't agencies.
I think a big reason for the high failure rate of certain PCO's is inexperience - they're probably not spraying the chemicals properly, missing areas etc. I'd like to think that their failure rates are unintentional.
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If you are going to experiment on human beings ..... with chemicals that have known (labeled) health effects .... spraying copious amounts indiscriminately in your living space .....
Shouldn't we at least use sound logic and established scientific methods ..... There are huge problems with the methodology & logic that is being displayed here .....
The assertion that Ortho HD Max is more effective than "PCO based products" might be a good place to start ..... Oh really .... Based on what evidence .... We have an uncompleted, uncontrolled experiment that is being conducted by individuals that have a preconceived conclusion in mind....
There is no control group, no direct measurement of any kind, zero objectivity & an unfortunate lack of insight regarding scientific methodology .... Yet we have a series of opinions.... That are presented as fact .... Serious claims based on pure speculation ....
Claims like the Ortho chemicals are harmless .... better than PCO products ..... a 60% reduction in bed bugs .... that inert ingredients make the home product superior .... claims about a sister product that does not even share the same active ingredient .... a total ignorance about basic principles of toxicology ....
Then, we have an ill informed conspiracy theory that explains why the greedy professionals are trying to suppress the truth ..... A world wide conspiracy to overcharge you for pest control service ....
If we are going to experiment on human beings with poisons.... shouldn't we at least be utilizing scientific principles that are taught in a junior high school science class? .....
Seriously, desperate people come onto this site looking for answers after their lives have been turned upside down ..... Some of them will believe what they read here .... You are doing a huge disservice to these same people that you claim to champion ....
At this point you are just another snake oil salesman ..... Some of the people that follow your advice will end up with dead pets .... Birds & fish can be harmed by improper application of Bifenthrin
Find a junior high school student and ask to borrow a science textbook .... You have a lot to learn....
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DragonFlight
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 8 2009 7:12:08
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The assertion that Ortho HD Max is more effective than "PCO based products" might be a good place to start ..... Oh really .... Based on what evidence .... We have an uncompleted, uncontrolled experiment that is being conducted by individuals that have a preconceived conclusion in mind....
What preconceived notion are these people having ? They are seeing results with there own eyes, I don't know where you come up with the word preconceived notion, when on top of it some have claimed that the pesticide in which the PCO laid down was not as effective as the Ortho product, what does that say in your opinion ?
Claims like the Ortho chemicals are harmless .... better than PCO products ..... a 60% reduction in bed bugs .... that inert ingredients make the home product superior .... claims about a sister product that does not even share the same active ingredient .... a total ignorance about basic principles of toxicology ..
In other words because this product is working for others there experience must all magical, and one must pick up the phone now and dial some PCO in there area when as already stated in this thread that a majority of PCO don't have experience with mahogany flats and other pests such as cockroaches.
Then, we have an ill informed conspiracy theory that explains why the greedy professionals are trying to suppress the truth ..... A world wide conspiracy to overcharge you for pest control service ....
I don't see where ignorance fits in this statement either, I see people are fed up, tired and angry and they want to do something about it and not empty there bank accounts or strip there credit, on a sour PCO that will need to do repeat visits while the person after handing over hundreds still sees bed bugs, and some countries do not have some of the treatments that the US has. Either as a American or as non-American the statement posted can go either direction.
If we are going to experiment on human beings with poisons.... shouldn't we at least be utilizing scientific principles that are taught in a junior high school science class? .....
Seriously, desperate people come onto this site looking for answers after their lives have been turned upside down ..... Some of them will believe what they read here .... You are doing a huge disservice to these same people that you claim to champion .... At this point you are just another snake oil salesman .....
Find a junior high school student and ask to borrow a science textbook .... You have a lot to learn ....
This paragraph holds no weight, first of all why must someone have Scientific Principals when there main goal is to eliminate bed bugs and get on with there lives ? No one is doing anyone a disservice, what is being mentioned is you can follow your advice which I wouldn't recommend and call up Mr.PCO or you can take it into your own hands, save some money and hopefully solve the problem yourself. I don't see nothing wrong with that, do you ? Maybe you are a PCO because you are very defensive in your entire post, instead of just being happy that these people are solving it on there own and saving money. Neither you or I know where they would rather put there money and frankly it's none of our business just as long as they don't bring these blood suckers back into there home.
DragonFlight - I doubt there's a PCO conspiracy, especially considering that PCO's have been sounding the alarm about BB's for many years now. The current epidemic of BB's was something that PCO's and others (university researchers etc...) predicted would happen - their warnings, ofcourse, falling on the deaf ears of city councils and other gov't agencies.
In a perfect world, there are many conspiracies happening as we speak I could go into some but they don't relate to this subject in which evidence is even there to back it up. If it occurs in other subjects\fields then and I'm not pointing a finger at you directly then who's say that this not happening in this field ?
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BedBugBatty
newbite
Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 6
Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 8 2009 8:36:03
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I'd like to note two additions to my experience...one , I only used Ortho Home Defense Max as the label instructed (spraying baseboards, corners, etc). I never sprayed my mattress or used it in a manner inconsistent with the labeling (aside from the fact that I was spraying to kill bedbugs instead of, say, roaches). Second, the product is labeled for indoor home use. The bottle even has a second, smaller atomizer setting to deliver a more precise spray. My conclusion that while this is a pesticide, it's "safe" to use indoors--so long as you follow the usage directions.
While I disagree with what Doug's saying, I fundamentally agree with the idea of being cautious. People who stumble into this thread should not get the wrong idea and start manically spraying down their whole home with this bedbug "cure-all". Follow the product directions!
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