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failed thermal, need advice

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hathead

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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 46

Posted 3 months ago
Tue Aug 11 2009 14:51:00
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We live in a large victorian – 3 floors. First 2 pesticide applications failed, and so did the first thermal. After thermal, the beagle identified two pieces of furniture and a filing cabinet. We are not into holding onto possessions, so the furniture went (one had failed pesticides already and the other I didn’t care about). We still got bitten after that (in bed, and when doing any work on the 3rd floor), so there are bugs still loose in the house. The problem is definitely the worst or even confined to the 3rd floor at this point. The thermal people are coming back on Thursday. Here are the steps we have taken to make our chances better:

Cut holes in the knee walls in the 3rd floor, as those walls were completely sealed, and we are not sure the heat got into those spaces properly.
Tossed the furniture which was still with bugs
We will put the files into boxes loosely packed and open all the filing cabinets
Pulled bookshelves away from the walls, as well as other large furniture on the 3rd floor.
We have very little clutter. We have four pets – sent 2 cats away to foster care.
Every pet gets a bath before leaving the house, and is put into a clean car and a clean carrier.

Is there anything we should be doing that we haven’t thought of? We are at the ends of our ropes! We believe thermal is a great way to go, but are puzzled as to why it failed.
nervousaboutbedbugs

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Joined: Jul '09
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Posted 3 months ago
Tue Aug 11 2009 15:29:55
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I'd be very concerned about the temperature they got up to and held - not getting hot enough behind wall cavities is one thing... but your furniture? Seems like a no-brainer it should have worked there.
buggyinsocal

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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,130

Posted 3 months ago
Tue Aug 11 2009 16:14:42
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When the dog alerted, was the dog's alert followed up by the handler's close inspection of those alert sites to confirm bed bugs?

And are you 100% sure that bed bugs have been and now are your only problem?

Thermal can and does fail from time to time, but those failures usually come from one of a few places:

1. A new thermal provider who hasn't yet mastered the learning curve of art/science that thermal relies on. In which case, ask questions about what they think went wrong and how the PCO is going to solve it on the next go round. Or particularly hard to treat items areas that are harder to get up to the proper temp because of insulation.

2. You never had bed bugs. This has, unfortunately happened to some people with failed thermal. After the thermal treatment the person realized that the source of bites wasn't bed bugs at all, but another pest on which thermal didn't work very effectively.

3. Reinfestation of bed bugs from somewhere else. If you might have bugs at work or at day care, or you're in a multi-unit building and adjacent apartments weren't inspected thoroughly, this is a possibility.

4. In addition to bed bugs, which are now gone, you have another pest that didn't get killed by thermal (or wandered back in), and the skin results are from that other pest.

We've had one report of a provider who, based on the description the bed bug sufferer gave, seems not to have done thermal the way it needs to be done, so that's a possibility, but I'm guessing that you'd know right away if you're in that category and not. Thermal treatment takes most of a day and a crew of at least two or three PCOs. If you had two or three PCOs doing the set up, all the ducts and heaters on your property, they were there all day, and your residence was still toasty warm many hours later, than you can rule the last one out.

When the thermal folks come back, tell them where the dog alerted. A good thermal provider should be able to increase the temp in those trouble spots.

I hope some of that helps. And also, I would totally appreciate it if a second treatment solves your problem, if after 60 days clear you'd drop back by and let people know that. The more info we have on the boards of what does and doesn't work for people, the more we can help newbies who come looking for info. A lot of people get the bed bug experience behind them and don't come back. I certainly understand that, but it does leave out information that others can benefit from.
hathead

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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 46

Posted 3 months ago
Tue Aug 11 2009 16:33:18
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buggyinsocal - 5 minutes ago »
When the dog alerted, was the dog's alert followed up by the handler's close inspection of those alert sites to confirm bed bugs?

no our dog handler doesn't do that. he seems good otherwise, but he has never done more than give us a report (and showed us how the dog behaves) on locations.

And are you 100% sure that bed bugs have been and now are your only problem?
pretty certain that they are our only problem. we originally thought we had fleas in april, and bombed the whole house. however, we never saw a single flea. it took us two months ago to find our first bed bug.

Thermal can and does fail from time to time, but those failures usually come from one of a few places:
1. A new thermal provider who hasn't yet mastered the learning curve of art/science that thermal relies on. In which case, ask questions about what they think went wrong and how the PCO is going to solve it on the next go round. Or particularly hard to treat items areas that are harder to get up to the proper temp because of insulation.

They are somewhat new at it - they are the only ones in this area who treat thermally. We asked them what went wrong but they didn't seem to know.

2. You never had bed bugs. This has, unfortunately happened to some people with failed thermal. After the thermal treatment the person realized that the source of bites wasn't bed bugs at all, but another pest on which thermal didn't work very effectively.
We've seen them, caught them, killed them, and showed them to the exterminator. They are definitely bedbugs!

3. Reinfestation of bed bugs from somewhere else. If you might have bugs at work or at day care, or you're in a multi-unit building and adjacent apartments weren't inspected thoroughly, this is a possibility.
We are a single family house. Neither of us is working right now (laid off, and summer off for teachers.) We don't have anyone else living here. I am super careful at the gym to hang everything up in the locker and keep my bag off the floor. There isn't anywhere we go regularly except stuff like the grocery store and the gym.

4. In addition to bed bugs, which are now gone, you have another pest that didn't get killed by thermal (or wandered back in), and the skin results are from that other pest.
We've had one report of a provider who, based on the description the bed bug sufferer gave, seems not to have done thermal the way it needs to be done, so that's a possibility, but I'm guessing that you'd know right away if you're in that category and not. Thermal treatment takes most of a day and a crew of at least two or three PCOs. If you had two or three PCOs doing the set up, all the ducts and heaters on your property, they were there all day, and your residence was still toasty warm many hours later, than you can rule the last one out.
When the thermal folks come back, tell them where the dog alerted. A good thermal provider should be able to increase the temp in those trouble spots.

Our PCO's definitely did all of the above. They seemed very thorough. We are buying some bedbug monitors now to catch the bedbugs, should they reappear, so that there can be no doubt of what is continuing to bite us. Unless the 2nd treatment is successful! Then the BB monitors will show nothing and we will be ecstatic!

You can see why we are so puzzled about the failure. All of your questions are good questions and make alot of sense, but we are certain our bites (acquired at night in my bed, and working on the 3rd floor where the beagle indicated) are coming from bedbugs still - we are not hysterical. We are not afraid of an itch ("if you don't see a bite, you don't have a bite") and we are not afraid of a mosquito bite ("I was in the garden and it itched right away, and yes I know this is a mosquito bite and I am not worried this is from a bedbug")
I will totally drop back in and let everyone know how we made out.
Thanks for weighing in.

I hope some of that helps. And also, I would totally appreciate it if a second treatment solves your problem, if after 60 days clear you'd drop back by and let people know that. The more info we have on the boards of what does and doesn't work for people, the more we can help newbies who come looking for info. A lot of people get the bed bug experience behind them and don't come back. I certainly understand that, but it does leave out information that others can benefit from.
hathead

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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 46

Posted 3 months ago
Tue Aug 11 2009 16:36:40
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also, what other bugs could it be that are biting us? just wondering...i don't think carpet beetles bite although people have reactions to their hairs. pretty sure we don't have any fleas (our pets do not go outside) and they have been inspected and bathed many times now

arg
sweetblood

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Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 29

Posted 3 months ago
Tue Aug 11 2009 17:35:21
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hathead, how long did the treatment take?
hathead

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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 46

Posted 3 months ago
Wed Aug 12 2009 15:12:01
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sweetblood - 21 hours ago »
hathead, how long did the treatment take?

They showed up at 8 AM to set up.
They left around 7 PM, but they had had trouble with one of their heaters in the morning
They originally said they would be done at 5 PM, but they stayed the extra time because the faulty wire set them behind schedule for the day.
hathead

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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 46

Posted 1 month ago
Mon Oct 12 2009 9:35:13
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An update – we don’t know if they are gone
We are nearly at the 60 day mark
We have had some suspicious bites which were not acquired in the traditional
mosquito way (when you know you are being bitten in the moment)
We’ve have bites surface mysteriously at odd times. The cats continue to scratch themselves (they are indoor cats with no flea history)
However, my partner has not gotten any of the terrible welts which marked bedbugs for her (and a good indicator for us).
we have caught nothing in our climbups except other kinds of bugs
How likely is it that my partner’s reactions changed just as the 2nd thermal happened? The odds are low that both these events would intersect, so it is more likely the bugs are gone. and of course we are hypervigilant and paranoid. Maybe we have carpet beetles or stray mosquito bites or the squash plant irritated our skin, etc.

on a good note, we lounge in the previously most infested room in the house and don’t seem to have any bites afterwards. So our terror alert is at the “cautiously optimistic” level (improved from “guardedly optimistic”)

We’ve decided to start our 60 day count over again as of unpacking the last box (3 weeks ago) which went outside for thermal. Unknown to me my partner packed up a lot of papers and photos which would have been fine through thermal. arg

Everything which went out was cleared by the beagle just before we sealed up (oil paintings, liquid art supplies, records, CD’s, etc.) then everything was washed or packtited or carefully inspected before coming back in. On the oil paintings I even used a steamer around the back frames just in case there was a lurker. I don’t recommend this though.

We have a very large house and my conjecture is that it failed the first time because they didn’t heat it for long enough to get everything hot enough. Maybe the knee walls or the files would have been a problem anyway, even if they had heated it for longer. We definitely did more prep than they told us, but in retrospect we should have done more. I’ve heard of different amounts of prep for thermal and ours was advised on the lighter side, so this is what I would tell anyone who is about to have thermal:

Obviously do everything they tell you to do to prep.
Then, if you see anything you suspect will be too dense to heat up in the amount of time they will be there, take the extra step to unload it and spread it around, even if they tell you they are not concerned about it. It can’t hurt anyway! We did some of this, but we could have done more (see next paragraph). They are the professionals, but if they are at all new at it, they are still learning and it is much better to succeed the first time.
Go ahead and hang all your clothes and bedding on hangers – what could it hurt? Open your dresser drawers – all of them, and make sure there is only a small amount of stuff in each. Hang your extra quilts and sleeping bags etc. – they will get hotter more effectively hanging on a hanger; unfold any sleeper sofas, folded up beds, etc. don’t assume they will do it.
Finally, I wish that I had pointed out to them a couch that we upholstered ourselves – we used an all natural latex rubber to build the cushions, and it is denser than synthetic foam, which is the norm for most couches. if I could have pointed it out and asked them to particularly focus on getting it to core temperature, it might not have been one of the points of failure. Which it was, and I ended up throwing it away because I just couldn’t stand to have it be the failure point again, after months of this bb hell.

Finally finally I want to be clear that I am posting this so that it might be helpful to others; it is in no way a complaint about our thermal company – they were extremely nice, dependable, supportive, and came back and retreated on our say-so the second time. If at this point we find a bug (which I truly hope we don’t) I know that they would come back and treat again. I would recommend them to anyone, and thermal is a great option. Just a little hard on the wallet.

I will report back around thanksgiving.