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experienced caulkers, let's make an FAQ
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mangycur
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Posted 1 month ago
Sat Oct 10 2009 15:09:45
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Calling all bed buggers with caulk experience! Here's the deal: I searched the forums, I caulked, and then I searched the forums and threads came up I hadn't seen before. this happens, I know. I am thinking we should organize, here. Why? Because a lot of us didn't grow up with parents who taught us how to do this stuff, and there are a lot of people at home depot who will try to sell you stuff when they don't know any better either.
Here is what I've learned so far:
DAP Alex Plus Clear was highly recommended, but then I saw a post in which someone removed their recommendation because after 3 months it shrank big time and they had to re-do it. Another bedbugger recommended Phenoseal Vinyl Caulk instead. I'm sorry i'm not siting you guys, I didn't take notes while diving in. Does anyone have anything to add here?Plaster of Paris was recommended for big gaps, and gaps around radiators.
Another bedbugger mentioned "if you're going to caulk, make sure you have a sealant." What? I don't know what that is.
A no-drip caulk gun is important. I got one at home depot and it's awesome. however, there are even better ones out there. I saw this online:
Z-Pro Acu-Vac.I got a smoothing tool. I thought it worked so extremely well, it almost made the job pleasurable. does anyone have anything to add?
http://www.amazon.com/Homax-5860-2-Piece-Caulking-Smoother/dp/B000H5VX2W/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1255204185&sr=8-3notes about excess caulk. I kept slowing myself down by trying to take the excess I had smoothed off with my smoothing tool, and reapply it somehow so I didn't waste. I eventally gave up on that and just wiped the excess on a paper grocery bag everytime it accumulated. I threw away half a can of caulk this way, but i made the job go more smoothely and more timely. So I would say, based on my experience, my recommendation would be don't even bother trying to save and reuused the excess because you will never get done if you keep stopping like that. Just keep applying fresh with the caulk gun, smoothing that, and move on.
don't try to use tape like you would if you were painting. My landlord suggested I put tape down to help make my lines clean. But when I pulled up the tape, it disrupted the seal and I had to go over it. this was even when I pulled up the tape immediately after applying and smoothing caulk. Don't bother with tape. Just trust your caulking tool and your paper towel and water.
Wear latex gloves. If you read the side of the caulk can, you'll realized you shouldn't get this stuff on your skin.
Clean up: even after using the smoothing tool, I still had wayward blobs and streaks of caulk. The best method of cleanup I figured out: bring a wastebasket, an entire roll of papertowels, and a spraybottle of water with you. When there is still a blob or streak, get a papertowel, spray water on it, and on the blob, wipe it up neatly, and throw it away. Don't try to conserve papertowels by using them more than once--I found that when i tried that, I just made a bigger mess.
Again, this posting is merely opinions I've formed in my own experience, and I am calling on others to share their experience so I can try to organize the information so we all can learn.
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Posted 1 month ago
Sat Oct 10 2009 15:31:44
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You may use caulk as a verb, however the material used must be a sealant. A sealant is different as it possesses "elastomericness"[u] a technical term which refers to a materials ability to return to its original size after being stretched or compressed say by building expansion or contraction over time. It is the ability to maintain a seal which helps keep the bed bugs out. The product you chose should say sealant on the label.
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mangycur
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Posted 1 month ago
Sat Oct 10 2009 17:14:35
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Thank you, Winston!
Another question I have for experienced caulkers is, should we just assume we're going to have to check for shrinkage a few times a year and reapply when necessary? If so, perhaps Dap is still a good choice.
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LOL dont they have a home depot where you live they give free class on stuff like this!! Thats funny I went to the nearest dollar store and bought arylic general purpose for use on window's doors and trim interior exterior and water clean up, white looks good!!I always use the stuff!! My husband is an ex construction worker and had a fit when he found out I bought some then I read it to him off the container!! He said it is okay it will work!! Cleaned the dollar store out!!but for holes in the wall i was told crumple up news paper tight stuff in hole cover with putty you might have to putty twice you have to sand when dry!! there r really better things to do. Not sure what those r tho!!
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mangycur
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Posted 1 month ago
Sat Oct 10 2009 19:34:24
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i don't really understand why you think my questions are funny watkins, and it's really bad manners to scoff. Please remember that we are all trying to deal with a major situation and we need support and information, and we'd like to feel safe asking questions. I appreciate your input that dollar store sealant is as good as any. Thank you.
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mangycur,
Thanks for working on this!!!
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sorry I was laughing at myself considering I know nothing about calking And stuff like that i am really sorry for offending you!! PLEASE Dont be mad at me!!
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Greetings Mangy-
A PMP made a similar sealant vs caulk comment to me recently and I have been trying to educate myself on this subject. (See Winston's comment above.) This is what I have so far and perhaps it may be helpful to you.
This is Dr. Bobby Corrigan (who leads NYC's rat control efforts) on sealants (PCT May 2005):
The key to using either a caulk or a sealant to repair a break lies with the word "elastomericness." This technical word simply refers to whether or not a material will return to its original size and shape after being stretched or compressed.
Most caulks or caulking compounds are non-elastomeric. Caulk materials are used for filling small joints (ΒΌ inch [6 mm] or less) where little or no movement is expected. Thus, for many pest-proofing situations, caulking compounds are not appropriate materials.
He suggests siliconized acrylic latex or ethylene copolymer sealants -- because they allow 25% joint movement and are compatible with most surfaces (though not plastic). They're also durable (between 10-30 years) and paintable.
The Phenoseal vinyl caulk you mention does not appear to meet these suggested specs? Dr. Corrigan mentions some brands in his article. The DAP Dynaflex 230 Premium Indoor/Outdoor Sealant (not mentioned in this article), which I believe Spidey has used, and which has the key word of the day, elastomeric, on its label, is low VOC, which is something I would give some thought to if I were, say, caulking a crib. (One of the brands Dr. Corrigan mentions, Geocel, has a green product line I'm seeing that is marketed as low VOC -- hard to figure green from green marketing but there you are.) I found a site that does not recommend the clear Dynaflex 230, however, because it shrinks too much. The other colors are apparently okay.
You might consider mentioning in your FAQ the need for ventilation and following the label of even a simple product such as this, since I wonder if some of the professional products that people might find once they start searching for a "sealant, not caulk!" probably need to be chosen carefully (i.e., make sure they're for interior use).
Also, you might consider KQ's curing tip.
Related to this, here's a Bobby Corrigan article on escutcheons that is worth reading and here is a PDF of his recommendations on sealant characteristics (includes table).
Oh, and googling how to caulk yields plenty of sites that explain how to lay a bead, tool the bead, etc. But I'm not sure I should add more links to this comment.
Best wishes,
ReneeEdited to add: I did not mean to suggest that Dr. Corrigan recommended the DAP product in his article; it's not among the ones he lists, just appears to meet the recommended specs. He mentions NP-1, Geocel and another brand.
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cilecto
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Posted 1 month ago
Sat Oct 10 2009 23:20:27
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Renee Corea, "newbite"?
ROTFL! -
mangycur
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Posted 1 month ago
Sat Oct 10 2009 23:21:49
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Wow, thanks Renee!
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 month ago
Sat Oct 10 2009 23:33:43
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The clear and ultra clear caulks shrink far more than others during the cure. They also cause metal to "rust". Don't know what it is but beneath some joints the metal is discolored.
I learned real quick to lay those on extra thick to compensate. Every joint after curing I examined for integrity.
In my caulk thread I called out the DAP caulks that flexed 25%. The siliconized acrylic latex will attack latex gloves. I had some melting happen.
Jim
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mangycur
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Posted 1 month ago
Sun Oct 11 2009 6:55:14
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wow good to know spidey
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mangycur
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Posted 1 month ago
Sun Oct 11 2009 7:20:15
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i just wanted to add that my pco, as part of his treatment, applied clear caulk in my bedroom and smoothed it with his finger. I didn't know anything about caulking at the time so I thought this was "done," and checked it off my mental list. A week later the seal had shrunk and the crack in the floor was as bad as it always had been. I am not faulting my pco, he knows what he's doing as far as killing bugs. But he didn't use best practice for the caulking. And I didn't know any better. The point is, if I had known better, I would have been on top of it sooner. I just wanted to share that. I wouldn't have corrected my PCO at the time, because people need to be left alone to do their jobs, and I was already asking so many questions it was pretty intense. I guess I just want to give the heads up to others out there to be aware of caulking practices and double check your pco's work because caulking is an extra if they offer it and they may not be as experienced with it as they are with pesticides. If I had put all my furniture back right away i would never have known the seal had broken.
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Some thoughts on caulking:
Clean the area to be caulked thoroughly. You don't want any debris or dust messing up the seal.
If the gap is more than a few millimeters wide, consider using a backer rod.
It's basically a long, thin, soft cylinder - comes in different diameters. It compresses into a space. I've tucked it into the gap between molding and floor using a regular old spoon or a paint-can opener. It gives the caulk more support, keeping the caulk from sinking into the gap.
Echoing what mangy and spidey have said: when in doubt, I lay it on as thick as I can. I cut the nozzle opening of the caulk at a diameter that's approx. as large as the gap I'm sealing. The majority of the caulk I've applied gets thrown away as I smooth it away. It does seem extremely wasteful. It's just that using a generous amount makes it much easier to smooth the caulk so that it adheres to surfaces with no gaps.
I do use blue painter's tape, and I use my finger to smooth it out. I've gotten good results. I wear gloves, and I wrap a piece of paper towel wet with a solution of water and a few drops of dishwashing liquid around the finger do the smoothing. I replace the wet paper towel around my finger frequently as needed - usually, every time my finger lifts off the bead of caulk like at a corner.
I remove the painter's tape as soon as I've smoothed it out. Pull it methodically and in a direction away from the caulk (as opposed as towards it). For instance, the tape above the caulk bead, pull away and kind of up.
My positive experience with the tape-&-finger method may have to do with using an excessive amount of caulk, and the fact I cannot caulk in a neat straight line without the tape. If there's an easier and less wasteful way, then I'm psyched to try it. I'm kind of turning into the go-to helper for some friends and family when caulking needs to be done.
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spideyjg
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Posted 1 month ago
Mon Oct 12 2009 14:31:05
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Now that fall is approaching you have to watch it. The DAP 230 Elastometric sealant can only be applied in temps above 40F. It won't cure below.
DAP now has a quick curing sealant 3.0 that seems to embody the same properties of the elastometrics but can be applied in temps down to -20F.
Good thing for the victims in cold country.
Sealant veterans check it out and give your thoughts
Jim
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renemeum
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Joined: Oct '09
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Posted 1 month ago
Tue Oct 13 2009 18:29:41
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When I started working on sealing the cracks and gaps I found some that were too big to fill with caulk. A good deal of the places that I wanted to seal were inside closets and places where I was not as concerned with the finish as I was with sealing the gap. I found this stuff at home depot called Flexible Floor Leveling Compound. It's not pretty, but it works to fill big gaps. I just used a small spacle blade to apply it. It is pretty thick going on so it sticks well and fills everything. After it dried up I went back over any small hoes with caulk.
I'm no expert but it worked for me.
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mangycur
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Posted 1 month ago
Wed Oct 14 2009 11:28:18
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Persona, Spidey and renemeum, thank you so much for your input, it's all great. Personna, you seriously should get the caulk smoothing tool and give it a shot. You might find you can adjust the rest of your routine to it and it might save a little time. Cheers!
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I just want to mention using your finger with no protection to smooth can be a baaaad idea. We were running out of time and patience during caulking, and wound up ditching the towel/glove/whatever we used. Both my partner and I ran into a chemical burn of sorts, or blister, on our fingers. Not painful if left to heal, but it took quite some time for the skin to calm down. And it was awfully painful when I thought it was leftover product and tried to scrib it off. :P
We can get so ahead of ourselves on every step of this bug process, that it's easy to make rookie mistakes. Being the daughter of an awfully handy guy, I know better. Still, I'm not even sure we used the proper sealant (it was DAP and clear, but we also used some Rona-brand clear stuff as well-- if we do it over, we do it over, no biggie.). We'd just gotten the keys to our new place, had it pre-treated in the morning (I know, but it was recommended by three different PCOs in the area), and came in that night to do the caulking. While it was nice to do it in a clear apartment, we certainly rushed ourselves more than we needed to.
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Louise
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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 70
Posted 1 month ago
Thu Oct 15 2009 10:47:19
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Any suggestions for a suspended ceiling in a basement bedroom? My initial thought is that caulking it will be next to impossible.
Am I wrong?
Louise
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mangycur
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Posted 1 month ago
Tue Oct 20 2009 20:21:50
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Louise,
drop ceilings are unfortunate. As a friend of mine said, privately: "We should do our best to seal as a part of Integrated Pest Management, but it's impossible to seal everything perfectly, and people can make themselves crazy."
Maybe someone else has an idea for a drop ceiling, but I don't. That doesn't negate any sealing work you do elsewhere. It just means you have to let some things go and focus on waht you CAN do. I will say that the caulking I have done HAS cut down on other bugs I have seen, like spiders. I, too, have a drop ceiling in the bathroom, and I guess I can't do anything about that. So just try to rest when you can, and relax about what you can't change, and focus on what you can.
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This is awesome!
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stevebeast
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Posted 1 month ago
Tue Oct 20 2009 21:02:28
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you might try a couple of spots of glue under the panels to hold them still while you caulk, if they dont move you could concievably seal it up.
another tip use a sponge to smooth it, water on latex and denatured alcohal on silicone
also i was wondering why caulk the baseboards? there is no way to seal the bottom of the baseboard and if they go out the bottom and stick to the wall they will end up under the carpet, where no vacume is going to get them.
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Louise
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Posted 1 month ago
Wed Oct 21 2009 11:01:30
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mangycur - 14 hours ago »
Louise,
drop ceilings are unfortunate. As a friend of mine said, privately: "We should do our best to seal as a part of Integrated Pest Management, but it's impossible to seal everything perfectly, and people can make themselves crazy."
Maybe someone else has an idea for a drop ceiling, but I don't. That doesn't negate any sealing work you do elsewhere. It just means you have to let some things go and focus on waht you CAN do. I will say that the caulking I have done HAS cut down on other bugs I have seen, like spiders. I, too, have a drop ceiling in the bathroom, and I guess I can't do anything about that. So just try to rest when you can, and relax about what you can't change, and focus on what you can.I believe you're right; I'm going to have to let this one go. The panels we have are rather delicate (is that just the nature of these panels...I have no idea), and seem not only to move upward when touched even slightly, but also to damage rather easily. Even if we *did* manage to caulk them, it would mean the destruction of any panels that would need to be moved (for whatever reason) in the future (we've already had to go into the ceiling a couple of times during recent renovations). Would that be the end of the world? It would be aesthetically displeasing, I suppose, having mismatched panels on the ceiling when we replaced the destroyed ones.
At this point, we'll leave it.
Louise
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