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BeenBitten
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Posted 5 months ago
Tue May 12 2009 4:44:33
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Hi, i was just interested if any1 on this forum is from England, PCO's or bedbug victims, if so cud u just write some info about urself and where ur based? thx
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Praying Newprey
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Posted 5 months ago
Tue May 12 2009 12:53:27
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Not exactly england ,Ilive across the border in Wales. Close enough? I'm in pembrokeshire and my story is that I bought some secondhand bathroom furniture with BB eggs in it. I'm guessing this because it was a while after that that I got bitten and then discovered the eggs. After throwing some stuff out and smearing petroleum jelly around every doorway and doorframe and sleeping downstairs on the couch I quickly stopped getting bitten. It seems the hatchling nymphs didn't get past second nymph stage or so (I think) because they seemed to have simply died from the bathroom area. All i did was trap them inside a warmish bathroom with petroleum jelly and - unable to feed - they just died. All in about 10 weeks after i discovered them. I spent 4 nights on the bathroom floor without abite , so i guess they're dead now. I didn't even use any insecticide or anything. I don't want to sound too smug though, because I too panicked atthe beginning. IT is easy to make a big big mistake at the panic stage & screw up.I've just been lucky. The next thing I have to do is somehow test the bedroom without feeding too many of them.
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lumpyredthing
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Posted 5 months ago
Tue May 12 2009 17:01:07
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I live in East London - have just had first treatment today, fortunately only bedroom is infested but it's quite bad. I really don't know where I picked up my little friends, I have a couple of ideas but nothing definite.
I'm now (not) looking forward to my first night as 'bait' - husband very squeamish and doesn't react to bites so probably better that it's me because I'll know if/when the bites reduce.
Apparently BBs are rife in our area so it's not only going to be getting rid of them it's going to be constant vigilance from now on to ensure that they don't return.
One thing our PCO did emphasise repeatedly was: don't sit down on public transport, especially in London, as a people ARE picking up BBs that way. No more fighting for a seat on the tube for me!
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BeenBitten
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Posted 5 months ago
Tue May 12 2009 18:45:15
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yo lumpyredthing i also live in East London :P mind i ask where abouts?
and btw most importantly what Pest conrol company did u choose?
i chose "Empireprestcontrol" and spent 210 pounds and it didnt solve the problem (
So now im going to seek treatments from bedbugs.co.uk.
What bout u?
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Blue_Ox
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Posted 5 months ago
Tue May 12 2009 22:03:31
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lumpyredthing - 4 hours ago »
One thing our PCO did emphasise repeatedly was: don't sit down on public transport, especially in London, as a people ARE picking up BBs that way. No more fighting for a seat on the tube for me!Would this be the advice for NYC as well? Our subway train seats are generally plastic and not upholstered (though the bus seats are upholstered). For awhile I wasn't sitting down out of fear of bedbugs and now I am back to sitting down again, only on a plastic seat. I do not ever sit on the wooden seats on the platforms anymore after seeing what goes on (people using them as beds) at odd hours of the early a.m.)
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I do sit on plastic subway seats in NYC but not on wooden or other waiting benches.
I am not saying it's a great idea.
The advice not to sit on subway seats in London sounds like David Cain. I don't doubt bed bugs are spreading this way. If bed bugs are on a subway, they can harbor and bite and hitchhike whether they are under an upholstered chair or plastic one, though the latter makes me feel much better.
And then there's the issue of having to find a way to live in the world once you've become aware of bed bugs.
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Hi,
Yes I confess the advice has the "ring" of me because it is me.
The reason we have to give a blanket warning is that for some reason our entire transport network runs on upholstered seating and in particular a dense material a bit like a tapestry. As we have seen them active on the network (have to be very careful about naming which parts for legal reasons (they have threatened to sue me on several occasions)).
Once you have plotted the density of infestations across the city for the last 5 years you see a pattern of hubs and spokes that overlays in some areas with the network very closely. Yes it could be coincidence but when you are treating people who have not stayed away from home in 3 or 4 years, have not brought any new items into the house and seem to not be able to clear a light infestation then looking for "local" sources to the infestation is the next step.
The answer would be to change the system to have seats made of plastic that could easily be wiped down or cleaned like 98% of the other transport systems world wide. In the absence of this we often advice people to use a shooting stick or portable seat, a very obscure old fashioned item of gentleman's apparel that i am informed has had a resurgence in popularity over the last few years, I wonder why?
I will however say that bed bugs on public transport will continue to be an issue until someone communicates the need to check and deal with infestations, otherwise they could treat every night and people would still deliver fresh samples onto the seats each day. In short the problem will never get fixed until they deal with the source of it in the first place.
David Cain
Bed Bugs LimitedP.S. Also in England - but I figured most knew that.
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lumpyredthing
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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 14 2009 3:33:52
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BeenBitten - 1 day ago »
yo lumpyredthing i also live in East London :P mind i ask where abouts?
and btw most importantly what Pest conrol company did u choose?
i chose "Empireprestcontrol" and spent 210 pounds and it didnt solve the problem (
So now im going to seek treatments from bedbugs.co.uk.
What bout u?I live in Plaistow. I used Bed-Bugs.co.uk and would recommend - obviously I'm only at day 2 of removal but these people obviously know their business and it was all very professional and they've been a great help.
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BeenBitten
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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 14 2009 14:23:11
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ah plaistow, no offense but im glad i live quite a distance away from it :P
is it rly bad up there? and do u like in a appartment or house (terraced, semi or fully detatched)?
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lumpyredthing
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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 14 2009 17:07:14
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BeenBitten - 2 hours ago »
ah plaistow, no offense but im glad i live quite a distance away from it :P
is it rly bad up there? and do u like in a appartment or house (terraced, semi or fully detatched)?LOL!! I don't think it's possible to be far enough away from Plaistow!! I live in a mid-terrace.
I think that there is a lot of all kinds of pest activity around here - the thing is that unless everyone makes an effort the pests will always win. In fact the bed bugs are quite benign compared to some of the things running around this area!! - at least they don't carry disease or tromp poop all over your food!!
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LOL, worst pest I ever encountered in your part of town was a letting agent. We worked for them the once, suffice to say never again shall we do so.
Fear not though Plaistow does not win as my worst London neighbourhood, that's just down the road from one that I surveyed and showed that in one neighbourhood 90% of the flats had experienced bed bugs in the last 18 months. It still pales compared to the 18 houses in a row I once saw in East Ham, it only stopped due to a break in the terrace and only a few of them agreed to get treated.
Its a fascinating city to study the problem in.
David
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BeenBitten
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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 14 2009 19:02:20
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BBcoukHome - 1 hour ago »
LOL, worst pest I ever encountered in your part of town was a letting agent. We worked for them the once, suffice to say never again shall we do so.
Fear not though Plaistow does not win as my worst London neighbourhood, that's just down the road from one that I surveyed and showed that in one neighbourhood 90% of the flats had experienced bed bugs in the last 18 months. It still pales compared to the 18 houses in a row I once saw in East Ham, it only stopped due to a break in the terrace and only a few of them agreed to get treated.
Its a fascinating city to study the problem in.
Davidomg lol david i used to live in East Ham all my life until i moved out 5 years ago.
Btw 18 houses are u serious lol? may i ask what road :D? lol that musta been a nightmare for ppl who wanted to get rid of them whereas the others that wouldnt have.
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Praying Newprey
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Posted 5 months ago
Fri May 22 2009 9:35:09
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I need to confess a premature boast of victory on this thread last week; "after 10 weeks of isolation method without any insecticide". Well, I got bitten in the bathroom last night - why do I feel so humiliated?
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muddy
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Posted 4 months ago
Mon Jun 22 2009 18:00:52
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BBcoukHome - 1 month ago »
It still pales compared to the 18 houses in a row I once saw in East Ham, it only stopped due to a break in the terrace and only a few of them agreed to get treated.
Its a fascinating city to study the problem in.
DavidI can trace back my problem to that very same area. I said 15 years ago, but it was in fact 20. I first started getting bit in a housing coop, in East Ham that I shared with one other guy. The bites I got back then are the same bites I'm getting today. As I explained elsewhere, I think I'm might have their great, great, great, grand children living in my current flat in SW London. I never ever caught sight of one, until this winter. I've been bitten every year, apart from 1992, since then. I always used to put it down to cat fleas, but I never ever saw one bite me. Then I actually did have an infestation of cat fleas one time, they were dead easy to spot and the bites were different. Baffling.
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muddy,
Bed bugs can be treated *completely*. And David Cain (a UK PCO who only deals with bed bugs) is a participant on this forum, and I suspect he would not only be able to verify whether you have bed bugs, but also get rid of them.
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Hi muddy,
Its unlikely to be the same infestation for the last 20 years. One of the most extreme cases I have dealt with had been in place for 5 years and it was literally covering all the walls and ceilings and was rather nasty to deal with.
It is more likely that you had an encounter a long time ago and another recently.
The only way to confirm would be visual inspection, luckily we have one of the worlds only dedicated full time teams of bed bug exterminators in London and a track record for clearance that is second to non.
Infestations can be treated and removed from properties and we also specialise in helping people avoid further sources of infestation based on information we have gathered from over 11,000 cases.
If you give us a shout we can arrange for someone to have a look and confirm things as bed bugs and work out how long the infestation has been present.
David
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LOL. This forum is a bit PCO top heavy. The fact is, like a lot of people, I don't have the money to give a PCO a shout. Thats why I'm on this forum, looking for a solution to treat it myself. I couldn't treat it before, because I didn't know what it was I was dealing with.
As absurd as it seems to the experts here to have the same community of bed bugs follow you around for 20 years, I think it sounds even more abusurd to suggest I've been so unlucky as to reinfest every place I've lived in in that time. I've been . I've been as baffled as anyone as to why I keep getting these bites, year in year out. I feel some shame about that and it's not easy to say you've been bitten all these years. I'm not a tramp or someone who lives in squalor. During that time I've had relationships and non of those women have been bitten, and women would know these things, but I have. Not every day, but steadily, and of varying severity. I've never been covered in bites. The worst has been a few everday. And, as I said, a break when I travelled for a year. Geographically I've got from East Ham>>Forest Gate>>Year travel (belongings stored in garage in Romford)>>Romford>>Hendon>>Hendon>>Friern Barnet>>Welwyn Garden>>Barnet>>Friern Barnet>>Whitechapel>>Clapham.
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By the way, I'm not a liar and have no need to present a shocking story to a parasite forum to extract some sort of enjoyment. I've told it as it is. Like I said, I'm baffled by it. Long ago I gave up trying to find what was biting me, because I never could. Whatever it was, it was stealthy as hell. I always thought that I was just a bug magnet, until I found bed bugs dead in the bath late last year and discarded skins this year. -
I'm baffled as to why you'd disregard what the experts on this forum have told you.
Regardless, whatever has been biting you for the last few decades, I truly hope you eradicate it. Being bitten for so long, it must seem like a dream to concieve of no more bites, whatever is biting you. Good luck!
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muddy
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 23 2009 10:43:02
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Emmm - 1 hour ago »
I'm baffled as to why you'd disregard what the experts on this forum have told you.
Regardless, whatever has been biting you for the last few decades, I truly hope you eradicate it. Being bitten for so long, it must seem like a dream to concieve of no more bites, whatever is biting you. Good luck!Well what am I meant to say to that? OK, sorry experts, I must have been imagining getting bitten all these years, silly me, what a flake I am. I'm wrong, you're right. If somebody can offer me a better explanation than those already given, I'll take notice. I'm a logical thinking fellow. Is it so out of the stratosphere, improbable, that bed bugs have travelled with me, in my possessions wherever I go. If so, lots of the expert have contradicted themselves. I know the time span seems crazy, but I moved around a lot as can be seen in my last post. As I said I can't account for the bites and so proposed that theory. If it flies in the face of conventional thinking, sorry for that, but I haven't heard a bettter theory so far. I'm an expert in my own field as well, and sometimes expertise can narrow your field of vision because you tend to refine data over the years due to repetion of experience. Then something comes along doesn't fit. The first thing an expert often does is dismiss it or make it fit the parameters in which they see the problem. If someone had said, 'wow, that's an intersting account you've given there, I wonder how that could've happened, tell me us more', I would have been more inclined to listen. But all I've gotten so far is, 'nah, that couldn't be'.
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lumpyredthing
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 23 2009 11:15:07
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Hi Muddy
I've been reading your posts with interest. I know that my infestation became patently obvious at around 5 months, and I suspect most peoples' are the same, which is why there is a bit of disbelief about 20 years. I don't think it's that anyone is calling you a liar it's just that no-one wants to believe that anyone has had to put up with the misery of BBs for 20 years!!
What will you do now - will you get them treated or are you just resigned to the fact that they're there and they're part of life?
Reading your post I have thought back to times in the past when I've had itchy lumps but I'm a 'hive factory' and a mossie magnet and I managed to convince myself that the BB bites were 'hives' for quite a while - even when my arm was in such a state that people flinched away from me in shops!! My husband doesn't react to bites so it seemed impossible that I could be getting bitten while he wasn't, just didn't make sense. When I found them strolling up the bedroom wall I had to face the truth!!
Happily, I'm now down to dealing with 'stragglers' and I can go to bed at night without the dread of lying awake scratching and I can relax in a bath without scratching my skin off!
I hope you find a solution and I wish you well, I hope that you do get rid of them - they're not something that anyone should have to put up with
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bait
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 23 2009 11:39:27
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Heck, I believe you. Anything's possible with these bugs.
No one knows everything. We are all on the learning curve. Don't let any misguided comments turn you away from this excellent forum.
Although I value professional opinions, we should all remember not to "teach" bedbugs 101.
Do we have contact with any parasitologists? They may take a different view than the entos.
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lil_bit_obsessed
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 23 2009 13:42:42
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bedbugs on subways. yikes. i used to be terrified of the bus in ontario a few years ago for this same reason.
i wonder if anyone knows the answer to a question i have: is it true that the sleeper trains in italy are thoroughly infested with bedbugs? i have heard that from several sources now. i suppose it's not really a surprise that a sleeper train might be infested (after all, public transport and bedbugs are becoming an increasingly common duo). i was just wondering for the sake of my sanity if i decide to do my honeymoon there. ;)
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 23 2009 13:44:59
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muddy - 2 hours ago »
If it flies in the face of conventional thinking, sorry for that, but I haven't heard a bettter theory so far. I'm an expert in my own field as well, and sometimes expertise can narrow your field of vision because you tend to refine data over the years due to repetion of experience. Then something comes along doesn't fit. The first thing an expert often does is dismiss it or make it fit the parameters in which they see the problem. If someone had said, 'wow, that's an intersting account you've given there, I wonder how that could've happened, tell me us more', I would have been more inclined to listen. But all I've gotten so far is, 'nah, that couldn't be'.muddy,
Regarding your previous comments, I am not an expert or a PCO.
I am not saying you're lying, not at all. I don't think anyone thinks that.
I am saying two things:
1) You may have something besides bed bugs. If so, there are people who can help you figure out what that is.
2) You may have bed bugs. If so, they can be treated successfully. You do not have to continue to live with them.
It's fully possible that you have bed bugs now or had bed bugs at one or more times, but that this is not the sole cause of your skin problem -- and the reason I suggest this is because if you always had bed bugs, you'd have a lot more, since they would have multiplied a lot in 15 years.
Depending on the number of people who have slept in your bed while you had an active infestation, I'd be surprised if some of those women did not react to bed bug bites. The fact that you say none of them did suggests another cause is likely.
I know money is an issue, and a lot of us here are not rich. It's not a small problem. But if you really have had bed bugs for 15 or 20 years, then you really need to get rid of them. Because they spread easily, and you're not the only one affected by them.
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muddy
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 23 2009 14:20:30
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lumpyredthing - 2 hours ago »
Hi Muddy
I've been reading your posts with interest. I know that my infestation became patently obvious at around 5 months, and I suspect most peoples' are the same, which is why there is a bit of disbelief about 20 years. I don't think it's that anyone is calling you a liar it's just that no-one wants to believe that anyone has had to put up with the misery of BBs for 20 years!!
What will you do now - will you get them treated or are you just resigned to the fact that they're there and they're part of life?
Reading your post I have thought back to times in the past when I've had itchy lumps but I'm a 'hive factory' and a mossie magnet and I managed to convince myself that the BB bites were 'hives' for quite a while - even when my arm was in such a state that people flinched away from me in shops!! My husband doesn't react to bites so it seemed impossible that I could be getting bitten while he wasn't, just didn't make sense. When I found them strolling up the bedroom wall I had to face the truth!!
Happily, I'm now down to dealing with 'stragglers' and I can go to bed at night without the dread of lying awake scratching and I can relax in a bath without scratching my skin off!
I hope you find a solution and I wish you well, I hope that you do get rid of them - they're not something that anyone should have to put up withI can understand people not wanting to believe it, especially considering how they make most people feel. But remember, I didn't know what was biting me, I just thought, 'why do I keep getting these damn bites', and could never find one, so rather than distress myself, put it out of my mind. I wasn't getting lots of bites every day, just a few a week on average and with a certain characteristic. Like they tended to like my wrists and elbows areas. And the many of the bites were not at first obvious being only feintly itchy, but developing into little bumps, usually in a cluster or row. After an hour or two the bites were clearly defined. Then there were more aggresive bites that could be on the body and were single bigger bumps, just like I've seen in the photos here and elsewhere. The thing is I can remember this phenomenon of biting in rows going back years, and always thought fleas, but it's the hallmark of bed bugs isn't it. Thats the clincher for me.
This is how beserk it drove me, I thought that they must be living in my ears, because I kept washing my clothes in hot water, spraying the place with insecticide to saturation point, hoovering like a maniac to no avail. If it was fleas, I would've nailed them, but they weren't fleas, they were BB's I'm convinced now.
I'm off work at the moment, hence my inability to pay a PCO. I can give them 100% of my attention now. I've steam cleaned my rugs and bagged them. I've steam cleaned likely hiding places and my wooden trunk. I even dismantled shelving and steamed it. I've thrown out lots of items, such my old bed, wicker boxes, my swivel chair that had to many hiding points. I've put my futon mattress in the cover advertised here and isolated my sleeping area with each leg in a plastic, talced, container with DE lightly spread on the bottom. So they can get to me, but only through a moat of DE and then they can't get out. Or that's the idea, these things seem to find a way. I laid down a dusting of DE in many different potential harbourages, but especially in my bedroom and used that as store room to keep the things I'm slowly packing up. I've left some things, like my computer and hifi, unbagged as I want to tempt out any critters living in them once out chances are they'll hit some DE. I don't really care to much about them following me, as I've been biten in both the living room and the bedroom, Unfortunately I spend a lot of time in the kitchen and so have also been biten here, I put down a few cardboard boxes with my hair trimmings and cloth, to tempt the bugs to set up home in designated places. This will sound mad though, I swear these bastard bugs can read my mind. They'll be saying, 'yeah, nice try. But we live where we choose, not you, schmuck'.
Today I've been immersing clothes and other fabrics in very hot water, drying and bagging. I've also invested in plastic container. From now on all my clothes will be kept in containers with lids. And so will most other things as well. I plan to make myself about as unattractive proposition as is out there. Even though my blood is bed bug delicacy, they can find their caviar elsewhere for now on.
The only problem I can't figure out is how to save my sheep skins. I don't really know how to treat these. I have to find a way, because I love my fleeces. The battle continues.
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@ muddy:
Geographically I've got from East Ham>>Forest Gate>>Year travel (belongings stored in garage in Romford)>>Romford>>Hendon>>Hendon>>Friern Barnet>>Welwyn Garden>>Barnet>>Friern Barnet>>Whitechapel>>Clapham.
You're a sort of rolling stone... ;-)
Well... you have lived in 11 different places (plus a year travel) in 15-20 years... that means that you have lived in every place for at least a year or more. Starting from a single pregnant bedbug, in a year you'll have a population of thousands bedbugs.
Bedbugs can't self-regulate their population, because their "primary direction" is to reproduce.
With a thousands infestation, you should see bedbugs (and their traces) almost everywhere, even during the day, and you should suffer from a lot (teens or hundreds) of bites every night.I'm not saying you're a liar... why should I?
But... every theory has to be based on solid facts, and on a deep knowledge too. You're theorizing about something you don't know so deep.
I put down a few cardboard boxes with my hair trimmings and cloth, to tempt the bugs to set up home in designated places. This will sound mad though, I swear these bastard bugs can read my mind. They'll be saying, 'yeah, nice try. But we live where we choose, not you, schmuck'.
Hair trimmings? Cloth? That's not a "nice try", that's silly... why should BBs be attracted by these things? Another theory? -
lil_bit_obsessed - 1 hour ago »
bedbugs on subways. yikes. i used to be terrified of the bus in ontario a few years ago for this same reason.
i wonder if anyone knows the answer to a question i have: is it true that the sleeper trains in italy are thoroughly infested with bedbugs? i have heard that from several sources now. i suppose it's not really a surprise that a sleeper train might be infested (after all, public transport and bedbugs are becoming an increasingly common duo). i was just wondering for the sake of my sanity if i decide to do my honeymoon there. ;)Sorry, it's true... I've just read the Italian Train Procedure against BBs, and it's totally ineffective... they made a random inspection on only three seats (or three beds) for every car.
They do a monthly treatment with pyrethroids (without treating seats or beds) and a yearly "deep" treatment (pyrethroids again).
The new procedure they're planning to apply is based on a single monitoring in a year with 4-5 glue traps put on the floor of every car for 10-15 days... and treatment if BBs are present...
I have no words...and, by the way, the procedure was written by a parasitologist... -
muddy
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Tue Jun 23 2009 16:10:13
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EffeCi - 40 minutes ago »
@ muddy:
Geographically I've got from East Ham>>Forest Gate>>Year travel (belongings stored in garage in Romford)>>Romford>>Hendon>>Hendon>>Friern Barnet>>Welwyn Garden>>Barnet>>Friern Barnet>>Whitechapel>>Clapham.
You're a sort of rolling stone... ;-)
Well... you have lived in 11 different places (plus a year travel) in 15-20 years... that means that you have lived in every place for at least a year or more. Starting from a single pregnant bedbug, in a year you'll have a population of thousands bedbugs.
Bedbugs can't self-regulate their population, because their "primary direction" is to reproduce.
With a thousands infestation, you should see bedbugs (and their traces) almost everywhere, even during the day, and you should suffer from a lot (teens or hundreds) of bites every night.
I'm not saying you're a liar... why should I?
But... every theory has to be based on solid facts, and on a deep knowledge too. You're theorizing about something you don't know so deep.
I put down a few cardboard boxes with my hair trimmings and cloth, to tempt the bugs to set up home in designated places. This will sound mad though, I swear these bastard bugs can read my mind. They'll be saying, 'yeah, nice try. But we live where we choose, not you, schmuck'.
OK. Lets try and break this down. The two longest periods of staying in one place has been my previous and present address. So lets take my present address. I've been here for 8 years. I have had bites since I moved in and continue to get those bites (I've described them in another post). They have not particularly got worse, I still get the bites in about the same amounts. I hasten to add here that I react to all bites and itch for a few hours, so I'm normally aware about how many bites I get. According to your theory, after 8 years I'd covered in bites and the BB's would not be able to remain inconspicuous because there would be a population explosion. I'd see them climbing the walls or, at the very least, in my bed. But I haven't.
The first time I found one was late last year. I was taking a bath one evening and after I started to drain the bath water I found one dead in the water. I put it in a container and identified from online photos (do I need to be entomologist to do that?). I found one more in the same fashion. In this time I'd searched different places, but not found any evidence of BB's. Not on the mattress or bed base. And trust me I searched all over (the bed base is now history, I don''t need potential harbourages like that).
Apart from anything else, your population explosion theory hinges on the assumption that nothing was done to prevent such an occurance. Do you think I've gone all those years without trying to do something about them? I bought my steamer 3 years ago for this very reason and before that different sprays and this is before I'd even identified what was biting me. I haven't just sat here, or in any of my homes, without trying to sort the problem out. So the chances are I inhibited their population growth by dint of my efforts.
Hair trimmings? Cloth? That's not a "nice try", that's silly... why should BBs be attracted by these things? Another theory?
For somebody trying to mock me, you need to do a bit better. I just found the one and only nesting site in amongst bath towels, in a wicker basket. What are towels made of, straw? The hair was thrown in because I was cropping my hair at the time and thought, since they know me so well, it would be a comfort to them. A bit like a picture of your loved one in your wallet (yes, that was meant to be joke).
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lil_bit_obsessed
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Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 23 2009 17:15:11
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effeci - oh no! just when i thought i might be able to plan a blissful honeymoon. i suppose i should have known better. guess i'll have to think of some alternative transportation to the sleeper trains.
i can't believe that's their treatment protocol! i've only been reading about bbs for two years, and even i know better! it's disheartening to think of how many people must be exposed there.
come to think of it, i imagine cruise ships must have substantial problems with them as well. given that the bb registry operates on the basis of geographic location, would people even be able to report non-situated places such as a cruise ship?
gah - public transport is so difficult like that.
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i can't believe that's their treatment protocol! i've only been reading about bbs for two years, and even i know better! it's disheartening to think of how many people must be exposed there.
I could not believe it too, reading the procedure for the first time... it's clear they don't know exactly how BBs work and spread...
I often work as a "scientific consultant" for one of the bigger Pest Control italian firm, and Italian Train Company recently asked them to make an offer to apply a pest control service in trains (following this treatment protocol). They asked me to evaluate it. So I wrote a 6 pages report that criticizes a 4 pages protocol...;-)
My conclusion was:
"Considering matherials, methods and strategy, the protocol is worst than useless: it's dangerous."@ muddy
For somebody trying to mock me, you need to do a bit better.
Yes, you're right. That's only because I'm not writing in my language. In italian I'd beat you into a pulp...;-)More seriously:
Now it's definitively too late to give you a complete answer to your post, I'll do it tomorrow morning after work. I understand and appreciate your logic, but it's unfortunately based on incorrect informations. Incorrect doesn't mean wrong. :-) -
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jun 24 2009 16:41:05
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HI muddy,
Thanks for explaining more about your situation.
It's possible that your skin was reacting to some other issue, AND that you then found some bed bugs.
What does not make sense is that in the previous 8 years they would not have grown in number. The number of bites should increase exponentially if bed bugs are the cause of the bites.
Other problems, I understand, can be mistaken for bed bug bites.
But the discovery of bed bugs after seven years does not rule out that something else caused your skin trouble for the last 7+ years. Does that make sense?
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muddy
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jun 24 2009 17:36:38
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yes it makes sense, but it's not what was happening. I know the difference between a skin problem and a bite. I've had enough of them. I know what they feel like and how they look. But I must be mistaken right? Wrong.
Look this is just going to get circular. I made a mistake on telling it as it is. I'm not interested in discussing it anymore. When something doesn't fit conventional thinking, people will just keep pulling it back until it does and ignore testimony as eroneouus. If I wasn't upset before, I'm pissed of something bad now. I've rarely come across such rigid thinking. Stay in the box. You've got all the answers in there.
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bait
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jun 24 2009 19:03:12
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Muddy, if you aren't too discouraged, try finding the "mystery bite" threads on this site. It may help fill in some gaps in your experience.
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Hi Muddy,
Sorry I have not had enough time the last few days to post much more to this thread but without wishing it to sound circular even taking into account the various moves from all the field experience that we have it is fair to say that a breeding colony of bed bugs will double every month and will continue to increase in number until dealt with or they are forced to move on.
I have met a lot of people who have linked a recent infestation to a pattern of activity lasting numerous years when in fact the number of active insects in the environment could not have possibly accounted for the symptoms they reported.
It is part of the difficulty with dealing with this issue on your own, it is not an every day occurrence so the skills we develop as specialists are based on hundreds or thousands and in a few cases tens of thousands of cases of bed bugs.
The reason why the forum focuses a lot on professional assistance in dealing with an infestations is that part of what you access is that experience of how to deal with things in the best logical order and in a way that should deal with the infestation as efficiently as possible. Some people access those services via their landlord or local authority or a private service provider where available.
If there was a product or solution that was 100% effective, 100% safe and available to everyone in a format that was easy to use then I am sure this forum could be replaced by a few simple web pages. That is not to say that self treatment of a light infestation is feasible, I have collaborated on such a project for some time but the hardest part is getting a protocol that anyone can follow without making things worse.
Many of the people I have met that have self treated for various reasons will admit that in hindsight given the time they have dedicated to the problem, the cost both financial and in personal time a efficient service is no longer as expensive an option as it might appear.
I am also sorry to see you say you find the people in the forum hostile. I will admit to the occasional miss reading of tone (I now always try to read anything and everything online with a smile on my face) and a slight offence but I can assure you that they all do mean to help where they can. After all professionals in Italy and America can hardly profit from your situation and there are many hundreds of past, present and future users of this forum that will i am sure continue to be thankful of the help and support they offer in their free time.
Bed bugs have become a global issue in such a short space of time this just happens to be one of the places where those of us who fight on the frontiers hang out and do that little extra where we can.
David
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spideyjg
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Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jun 24 2009 22:23:12
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Muddy,
No offense but how much have you read from entomology texts on the life cycle, biology, and behavior of BBs?
These things are well studied in documents going back 100 years.
Guaranteed facts backed up by studies....
BBs hatch and if well fed grow to adulthood in one month.
The adult females begin laying 5 eggs a day as long as the food holds out and even starved will lay eggs for 21 days after a meal.Do the math on that kind of exponential growth and see why the scenario of 8 years with BBs yet just finding evidence is unlikely. Perhaps, and no one can say it didn't happen because you haven't given enough info, you inflicted heavy casualties and kept them in check but without a targeted approach after 8 years there would be loads of bugs and evidence.
Read the mystery bites threads because there is a lot of stories of mystery bites appearing long after the infestation is cleared yet there hasn't been a definite answer found. You have found proof that you now have BBs and need to address them but do not close your mind off that they are the only issue that could be going on. Many folks react to carpet beetle larvae as proven by David.
I am not in any way shape or form associated with any pest control outfit but I am a well educated BB warrior who, in conjunction with a PCO, wiped these little bastards out of my life.
Based on your reaction I figure you don't want any more input, but in all sincerity good luck.
Jim
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BBcoukHome - 2 days ago »
Hi Muddy,
Sorry I have not had enough time the last few days to post much more to this thread but without wishing it to sound circular even taking into account the various moves from all the field experience that we have it is fair to say that a breeding colony of bed bugs will double every month and will continue to increase in number until dealt with or they are forced to move on.I apologise up front if this post is a bit all over the place. I'm actually quite disoriented at the moment with all the things going on in my life and having to deal with this as well.
For some reason a massive infestation hasn't happened. Or if it has, my eye sight is much worse than I thought. I cannot account for the steady number of bites I get and how I get bitten. The bite scenarios tend to change, but some favoured modes have been consistant, such as biting shortly after I put my clothes on in the morning. This winter I was mostly getting bitten at my computer desk, but then I got broad band and would sit in the kitchen with my laptop, they seem to have followed me there and that is the place I'm getting bitten now. About one bite a day. Clearly my behaviour has inadvertantly spread the problem throughout the flat, but then my case isn't typical in that bites are nothing new to me. If it had been something new, I would've reacted differently.
Yes, I've had some bites in bed over the years and they tend to be body bites, but I do seem to get bitten more often while awake. I can sometimes even feel them crawling on me, especially in my meditation spot, and will then find a bite a short while after. I checked my mattress and bed base, but found no evidence of faeces or harbour points. I've since broken up the bed base and binned it (that's because I've been slowly packing up for a move and will use my futon only in my new flat).
Stupidly I didn't keep the two dead ones I found last year. I say stupidly, because they were the first hard evidence I had of a possible villain for my bites. I did check at the time and they looked like bed bugs to me. And I've found a deserted harbourage where there were about 20 or so shed skins and lots of faecal spots. It was amongst towels kept in a basket in my bathroom.
Apart from getting bitten after putting my clothes on in the morning, I've also been bitten after putting on various jackets. Clothes tend to have been a favourite hideout, but that has now changed since I've started to pack up my stuff readly for my move.
I have met a lot of people who have linked a recent infestation to a pattern of activity lasting numerous years when in fact the number of active insects in the environment could not have possibly accounted for the symptoms they reported.
Then I'm stumped. The things is I live in a block of flats and therefore the possibility is there for other prospects to infest. I have no answer, all I know is what I've experienced.
It is part of the difficulty with dealing with this issue on your own, it is not an every day occurrence so the skills we develop as specialists are based on hundreds or thousands and in a few cases tens of thousands of cases of bed bugs.
That is not been in dispute, from me at least. I'm not saying I know bettter. But the problem is a complex one that I will try to explain. If it's true that I do have bed bugs, then the chances are my parents have them as well and then it's possible that at least one of my brothers has them. My parents are both in their 80's and I know my mum, hearing from me that I may have introduced bed bugs to her house will just cause her terrible stress. So there's myself, my parents and my brother that I would be responsible for treating. You're a PCO, so you know the financial implications of that. And that's a burden on somebody who has not worked in 2 months. So you see, the incentive to self-treat is massive for people in my situation.
And then there's the emotional burden. I feel shame that I've let it go on this long, but then nobody else was complaining of getting bitten and I never could find what was biting me. Right now I'm involved in a mutual exchange with another housing association tenant. The thought never entered my head before that I was leaving him a problem. That because, as I just wrote, I thought they only target me. I know that's not entirely rational, but I sincerely believed that. So now the thought is that is that I might be leaving him this mess, I feel bloody awful. But this move has to take place, my health depends on it. If there's a way to do a spray after all my stuff is packed and sealed, I'd have to find the money some how to pay for that. But if you see my flat, potential harbourages are too many to count. It's a bed bug paradise.
And so I'm trying my best to clear it up before he moves in and I move out. I don't think some of the experts here are vaguely aware of the emotional impact of dealing with this is for some of us. If they do then that would make their stupid little snipes even more disgraceful.
The reason why the forum focuses a lot on professional assistance in dealing with an infestations is that part of what you access is that experience of how to deal with things in the best logical order and in a way that should deal with the infestation as efficiently as possible. Some people access those services via their landlord or local authority or a private service provider where available.
Well my case certainly would make the job about has hard as gets then, given that I've been farting about trying to eradicate a mysterious biter for some years now. I must be one of the worst case scenarios--especially now I'm packing to move (all washable items washed at 50c + and electrical items heat treated in my home made dustbin/hair dryer decontaminator) and have laid down borders of DE as a first line treatment (and it's not working as it's been down 2 weeks and I'm still getting bitten). So that would mean the cost of treatment would even be higher for me. Then there's my mum, dad and brother. So I'm in a hole that is getting deeper and deeper by the day.
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spideyjg
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Posted 4 months ago
Sat Jun 27 2009 13:39:05
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Muddy,
Does you flat have a lot of birds around? Bird mites can be a problem and from reading a bit on them they make BBs look like a cakewalk.
Search for birdmites.org.
The mites are usually smaller than 1mm and victims often feel them crawling on them.
Jim
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muddy
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Posted 4 months ago
Sat Jun 27 2009 13:53:58
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The two I caught in winter were definitely bed bugs, not mites and mites don't leave 20+ dead skins in amongst towels, with faecal dots. No, it's bed bugs, but why am I not over run. I found what I think was a bunch of eggs in my kitchen table while giving it a good clean. I would have taken some photos, but I'm just so exhausted with this, I'm not always thinking straight. Last night I was in and out of my kitchen most of the day and one finally bit me on the upper arm around midnight, while I was sitting at my laptop. I have not been bitten in bed for over a week and am getting about one bite a day in the kitchen.
Today I did another search around the flat and found no traces of bed bugs. That said there are lots of hiding places, the worst being the plastic window frames and the plastic electrical trunking. There are just so many places for these things to hide.
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muddy
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Posted 4 months ago
Sun Jun 28 2009 17:40:49
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A heatwave is expected for next week. From my studies, I have read that heat is a big archilles heel for these insects. So I fully intend to take advantage of the heat wave and find a method to push the heat up to lethal levels. If I can't acheive lethal levels, I will at least damage viability in some and increase the sense of urgency in the rest of them. Hopefully this will get more and more of them to walk through my many DE barriers and dessicate. My flat, which always get very hot and unbearable in the hot weather, is going to be one hot, dry environment.
I'm sure, if this site lives up to it's reputation, someone will be along soon to tell me it won't work, or that it's not advisable, as I might get heat stroke or something. Nevertheless, do it I shall, with 3 temperature probes (ordered) deep in the coolest areas and an ambient temp reading. Ha, ha, ha, ha. BB's you will suffer at the very least.
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Hi Muddy,
Don't wish to burst the bubble but I am sure you have read that 60 degrees centigrade is the magic temperature. If its gets hot enough to generate those temperatures in the UK without added assistance I will be amazed and we will all have much bigger issues.
We do understand the pressures and issues, I have certainly treated 3 generations of the same family in 3 different locations over a short space in time. This is just one of those issues that can spread and ensuring that people you come into contact with are clear is part of the overall process.
There is little point in getting clear if you get them back from a friend or family member in a matter of weeks so open communication is essential.
From what you have described yes the state of boxing and moving would be an issue for standard treatment methods but what I mean by nightmare scenarios are:
- someone who spends £50 - £500 on aerosol and fogger products only to spread the issue from one room to 3 or 4 in the house
- someone who has applied so much product that they start to get insecticide poisoning symptoms which can mimic insect bites
- someone who guts the house and lays a laminate floor with the bed bugs trapped under it
- someone who does not follow instructions because they feel they know best despite the fact that they could move to new infested locations once a month and still not get the experience right in 10 years of exposure
The saddest fact is that we do get people who ring up when they have 1 infected room, declare its too much, spend more money and time on making the matter worse and wonder why it costs more with 3 infected rooms and a diffused infestation than it would have been with one room. On more than one occasion I have had to make it clear to people that had they dealt with it in one room it would have been cheaper than what they have gone through in 2 months and may have been resolved in a matter of days.
The reality of bed bugs is that its a major issue that is growing out of control. I have asked various branches of the government for support and resources to tackle the issue since 2003 and have always fallen on deaf ears. Now things are starting to get out of control they are all panicking and realising that the only people who can help them are the ones that asked for help a long time ago and where told to go away. To get us back on board they would now have to do things that they want to avoid such as banning whole rafts of products from sale connected with bed bugs but the reality is that many of the most heavily promoted self treatment products make the matter worse and the companies that sell them have been informed of this they just choose to ignore it.
Good luck though and I hope you manage to move bed bug free.
David
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I appreciate you reply David. Nobody can burst my bubble on this forum now, I've acclimatized myself to it's style and the BB community in general. I'm old enough to know, at a deep level, that experts do get in right more often than not, but they can also get it wrong and very wrong sometimes. It would be too long and convoluted to explain why I know this, but it has been my experience.
I'm not saying I know better than the experts here, but I've chosen my path, at least for my flat and therefore I do think it churlish if experts and their followers keep dashing plans unconstructively. To your credit, you've not done that. It is just a fact of life that some people are going to take on the challenge of eradication themselves, due to financial expedience and just because that's the way some people are. I doubt very much that it's going to put any PCO's out of business. I know first hand that I couldn't do self-help if I was working. The degree of labour involved and the stress is just too much. Therefore I wouldn't recommend anyone take this route unless they're plain daft or can the can put the hours in. It's been very diffficult.
I have had 3 days without a bite (I thought I got one on my foot yesterday but it was a mozzie) further evidence, surely, that I don't have a severe infestation. Why the population has kept so low is a mystery to me--to you lot it's not, you would immediately assume that it can't be bed bugs and maybe you'd be right. I didn't take a snap of the two that I found and now regret that. Frankly I don't care, all I know is that my decontamination, barrier storage and DE is working. I do hope that I was mistaken and they weren't bed bugs, but I haven't seen reference to any other biting insect as fiendishly sneaky as the bed bug and whatever's been biting me is a master at staying inconspicuous.
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muddy
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Posted 4 months ago
Mon Jun 29 2009 14:45:36
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BBcoukHome - 19 hours ago »
Hi Muddy,
Don't wish to burst the bubble but I am sure you have read that 60 degrees centigrade is the magic temperature.I have read that, but it contradicts other studies, specifically-- 'The lethal effects of heat and use of localized heat treatment for the control of bed bug infestations', Perreira, et al 2009 University of Florida. As I'm sure you have read, in their studies they found 100% mortality rates at exposures of 100 minutes at 41C, and at 47C the time went down to just 2.5 minutes.
It seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong, that treatment tends to be erring heavily on the side of caution and using greater temperatures for much longer time durations than this study deems necessary. That does not mean to say that hitting lower temperatures for a shorter duration would not be equally effective. As long as the temperature is not sub-lethal in the coolest points in the room, then treatment should be successful. Therefore aiming to hit 60C seems to me to be unecessary. The magic temperature range I'll be aiming for is 45--50C for one hour, just in case of stragglers.
Cheers
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spideyjg
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Posted 4 months ago
Mon Jun 29 2009 15:21:50
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That is true muddy. The thermal death point starts at 113 and as the temp increases the duration of exposure to achieve lethality drops.
The much praised Packtite shoots for 120 and has the bugs in an enclosure that they cannot escape the heat.
They are well aware that they are in peril as the temp increases and will seek a cooler location. David made a video of a jar of bugs in a pactite and they started freaking as 120 approached.
I did some testing plunging a temp probe deep into the folds of a chair and using a temperature controlled heat gun tossing out confirmed 220F heat watched it take a fair amount of time to get that fold up to lethal temps and the bugs would have hauled ass out before getting lethality in there. Eggs can't run though :)
The higher you can get it safely the better, provided there is no escape route, although 120+ is good 140 is ideal.
Then again I'm a "so called expert" so I'm chock full o' crap.
Jim
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Hi Muddy,
You can only aim for what you feel will work and see the results.
I aim for 100% efficiency 100% of the time so my temperatures are based on other principles in science but if you stalk through my posts you will see why I take that approach.
Oddly enough I can for legal reasons comment on thermal remediation because they are patented processes at a commercial level and as someone found during a seminar in London it may work for individuals but the second you offer it as a service you infringe patents and need to come to an arrangement with the patent holders.
As I don't at this stage see the need for thermal based on the approach we follow its not something that I have researched extensively. It is very much a case of if you have a cost effective solution to a problem which is rapid don't try reinvent it, refine it maybe but that is something that anyone who deals with thousands of cases a year will do on a rolling basis.
I hope that clarifies.
David
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muddy
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Posted 4 months ago
Mon Jun 29 2009 16:08:42
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spideyjg - 39 minutes ago »
Then again I'm a "so called expert" so I'm chock full o' crap.
JimI don't think it's about being an expert Jim, if, during experiments, scientists have figures arrived at empirically, then the experts have spoken. If I tighten a bolt on my bike with my torque wrench, I'm trusting that the manufacturers have given the optimal settings, I just use the figure they give me.
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