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jannifer20
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Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 42
Posted 1 year ago
Sun Aug 31 2008 20:59:46
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I am wondering about using a dog that is trained in sniffing out BBs.
Is there a good website or company to go to?
I live in WI -
buggyinsocal
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,132
Posted 1 year ago
Sun Aug 31 2008 21:11:40
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You might take a look to see if any of these teams are either in your area or willing to travel:
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hatebedbugs
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 21
Posted 1 year ago
Mon Sep 1 2008 11:37:34
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I would stay away from any dog teams that are NESDCA member's. This is a group that claims that their dogs are certified and that their trainers and facilities are accredited. The question is who or, what entity is acredating or certifying the NESDCA member dog's, it's member's and facilities? The answer appears to be, it's own member's. This means that inherently, there is a conflict of interest with their process. Until this organization reaches out to an independent, third party for, certification and accreditation, the NESDCA will continue to be identified as, nothing more than, an old- boys-club.
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buggyinsocal
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Posts: 1,132
Posted 1 year ago
Mon Sep 1 2008 11:57:32
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Wow, hatedbedbugs, sounds like you've got some strong feelings there. I had seen links to that organization here before, and they're the only website I've been able to find that lists the geographical location of their dogs. I haven't used a dog, and in that sense, I don't have a horse in any side of the debates apparently going on about certifying bed bug dogs.
Surprised by the level of objection you raised in your response, I went back and looked at posts on bed bug dogs to figure out what was going on, since clearly I have stumbled into the middle of an ongoing contentious issue.
I was unaware that there has been tension in the past about the various accrediting agencies, probably because I haven't used a bed bug dog.
It would be awfully helpful to me if someone could give a totally objective list of what websites I'm *supposed* to link people to if they ask about bed bug dogs. I could only find the one I linked above and the one hatedbedbugs mentioned buried in an old thread, but that one requires people to email them as opposed to listing locations where their dogs are.
My experience has been that plenty of people new to fighting bed bugs don't want to give out personal information when they're still trying to figure out how to treat, so if there are places that list the availability of dogs in various places that are not contentious websites, I'm happy to link to them. I'm even happy to link to warring factions in any message.
It seems less than helpful, however, to just say stay away from this group without providing an alternative possibility or (even better) alternative possibilities esp. for people who are in the throes of fighting bed bugs.
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Jannifer20
Please feel free to send a PM to me, if I can provide any assistance in helping you locate a certified Bed Bug Dog team. I work for Florida Canine Academy & I will be glad to answer any questions that you might have about K9 inspections. -
Buggy in SoCal
I certainly understand if you feel like you stepped into a Hornet's nest without any warning.Basically, there are two main providers of scent detection dogs for pest control.
NESDCA is an organization that promotes K9 teams that are trained by one of the companies. The website carries only a partial list of the K9 teams that are currently available in the US.
Some of the people in the K9 industry are prone to making false & malicious statements about the others which has led to high levels of animosity.
I feel badly about you being caught in the crossfire of another readers umbrage, when all you were trying to do is help a new member locate a K9 team.
Let me know, if I can be of any assistance.
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buggyinsocal
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,132
Posted 1 year ago
Mon Sep 1 2008 15:21:08
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Doug,
Thank you for that summary (and apt description of how I felt).
I was thinking about getting a dog in to inspect shortly before my warranty on treatment ran out, esp. after I bring back in the materials I had to remove for treatment. Since that's a few months away, I will definitely make a mental note to drop you a line then.
The explanation you provided above was informative and helpful, and I appreciate someone taking the time to explain the issue in a clear and rational manner.
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hatebedbugs
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 21
Posted 1 year ago
Mon Sep 1 2008 16:34:18
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Buggy, my comment was not directed at you or, to you. Had it been, I would have prefaced with your name. My objective was to enlighten the bed bugger community that some of the claims that the NESDCA have made are misleading and that, there appears to be conflicts of interest. I think exposing those potential conflicts of interest is, important. I might add, I have never met a member of the NESDCA. Nor, have I ever had a member of the NESDCA ever, respond to comments that, I have made on this website. Members of the NESDCA have every opportunity to refute or dispute my comments. I welcome them.
God bless! Have a wonderful day!
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HateBedBugs
I sent a PM to you
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hatebedbugs
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 21
Posted 1 year ago
Mon Sep 1 2008 21:35:50
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Doug, pardon my ignorance. I have no idea what a PM is, how to send one or, receive one.
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HateBedBugs
A PM is a private message.
Click on the green "# PM this User" next to the "Posted 00 Minutes Ago" associated with the comment of the writer that you wish to message. You'll see it at the bottom of each message in the forum.
To check your messages, go to the forum index page & click on the green "check your messages" link. The private message area is between Terms of Use & Online Now at the top of the page under the Useful Products graphic.
There is also a large green button on the left side of the index page under the blue Blog button & the orange FAQs button
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I was reading through the articles and this one caught my attention. As someone who has done their homwork on dogs that find bugs and a happy customer from using a dog, I wanted to comment on my experience.
Reading from different dog training websites I found WDDO and NESDCA. Several websites listed WDDO as a certification but as deep as I could dig, I could find nothing on WDDO standards or the organization itself. NESDCA listed certified dogs, members, etc. After reading this article I went back to their website before making any comment and found applications to join as training facilities, trainers, dogs, etc. The board members, from what I can find, appear to be pest people. It appears that anyone can join, train, or certify their dog by just applying.
As a site I came to looking for support and that I thought was supposed to help people with this problem, I am utterly dismayed by comments from "hatebedbugs". Especially from "hatebedbugs" own words, "I have never met a member of the NESDCA. Nor, have I ever had a member of the NESDCA ever , respond to comments that, I have made on this website. Members of the NESDCA have every opportunity to refute or dispute my comments. I welcome them." What should they respond to and why, I read everything on their website? We need facts for help, not someone who obviously just doesn't like a group or someone.
I personally used a dog that was certified from NESDCA and was completely happy with the service provided. I really had no option because I am not paying my hard earned money for a service that I can't find anything about. In this same section, Mr. Summers states he works for Florida Canine Academy who list a certification but also provides no details about it. He also states that "The website (speaking of NESDCA) carries only a partial list of the K9 teams that are currently available in the US." Then goes on to say "Some of the people in the K9 industry are prone to making false & malicious statements about others......." I am just guessing but I would say that NESDCA's website only list dogs that have certified with them and not everyone else, which would also make me guess that Mr. Summers may be trying to be somewhat misleading. I looked for dogs certificed by NESDCA on Florida Canine Academy's website and they didn't list them. It just makes sence to me anyway, if I owned a company, I am not going to list my competition on my website. During my homwork I also talked to several people certified with NESDCA and they are not from one company. I spoke to people who bought dogs from two different companies in Florida, one of which came from the company Mr. Summers works for and another who's dog came from Texas.
I came to this site for support, not disgruntled, opinionated, people with obvious personal agendas.
Jessip
For "buggyinsocal" who appears to have my same interest, looking for help. Here is some of my homework.
The three dog training facilities I looked at were:
FSIK9.com - David Latimer - certifies WDDO, can find no informaion on it, they are having a confrence in 2009 though
jkk9.com - Pepe Peruyero - certifies NESDCA which has their own website nesdca.com
bedbugdog.com - Bill Whitstine - certifies but doesn't say how & with no info. and all his bed bug dog information goes to mold
Hope this helps!
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spideyjg
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Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 1,411
Posted 1 year ago
Tue Sep 2 2008 16:09:47
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jessip - 53 minutes ago »
In this same section, Mr. Summers states he works for Florida Canine Academy who list a certification but also provides no details about it. He also states that "The website (speaking of NESDCA) carries only a partial list of the K9 teams that are currently available in the US." Then goes on to say "Some of the people in the K9 industry are prone to making false & malicious statements about others......." I am just guessing but I would say that NESDCA's website only list dogs that have certified with them and not everyone else, which would also make me guess that Mr. Summers may be trying to be somewhat misleading.From what I have read over the months Doug has always been very forthcoming in sharing his knowledge of BBs to help out the stricken. I haven't seen anything from him I'd consider “misleading”.
Yes there does seem to be some friction about BB dogs between parties and IMHO this board isn't the place to hash that out. As you said many of us are looking for advice and guidance and not qualified nor trying to debate the training, certification, or efficacy of BB dogs.
Some have used them and been impressed and happy, others not and I believe that would go for every treatment approach you could name.
Jim
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No interest in being misleading, if you click on the dog photo it will link you to BedBugDog.com.
As I stated in my earlier comment I work for Florida Canine Academy.
NESDCA only listed K9 teams that were trained by J&K the last time I checked.
In the future, you will see a rival trade association website that will list K9 teams that have been trained by other companies & different methodologies.
If you call us, we will be glad to refer you to available K9 teams in your area & answer any questions that you may have about Bed Bug Dogs.
I was also distressed by the tone of HBBs comments & sent a PM rather than continue the public discussion on the forum.
I strive to be accurate in the comments that I post here. I apologize if you feel that any of my comments were intended to be misleading in any way.
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hatebedbugs
banned
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 21
Posted 1 year ago
Tue Sep 2 2008 22:16:17
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Wonderful discussion. You all have offered profound insight into this subject. My comments were directed at potential bed bud dog consumers; to question the capability of bed bug dog and handler. Because, one may not necessarily be getting the service they think they are purchasing when it comes to bed bug dog detection work. In the past, this website has allowed individuals to expressed there displeasure, and ineffectiveness of products or, services that they have used. Potential consumers have expressed concern about products that they thought about purchasing. So, I think this discussion has been absolutely appropriate. Let me remind you all again, that their is a non-for-profit organization SWDOG.org consisting of government and academicians who's purpose is to develop guide lines for search/detection dog organizations, training and testing procedures. Now I don't know about you, but I don't want to purchase K9 bed bug detection services from someone who had their dog capability tested buy their friend. And I don't think you would either. Therefore, I say, it is incumbent upon a bed bug K9 handler and their k9 to pass ridged testing requirements by an independent third party and institution, that prsents no potential, conflict of interest. I hope you agree.
Kind regards
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hatebedbugs,
Thanks for the information.
I can't find anyone who test dogs for SWGDOG.org standards. Looking on their website I can't even find a test for bed bug dogs. They have others, but not for that. Your help would be greatly appreciated in helping me locate a dog that has tested to these standards and could you direct me to SWGDOG's bed bug dog standards on their website cause I can't find them.
thanks, jessip
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Jessip
You are correct, SWGDOG does not currently have any published standards that apply specifically to bed bug detection K9s.
The new trade association that is in the process of being formed will be submitting a set of standards for SWGDOG's approval. SWGDOG doesn't test or certify animals or handler teams. SWGDOG is an international group of K9 experts that evaluate standards for working dogs.
The ideal certification process would be to contract with respected truly independent K9 experts that evaluate K9 teams utilizing SWGDOG approved protocols.
Currently, the most valid certifications available in the industry are provided by the trainers. The K9 trainers have a vested interest to certify competent handler teams.
K9 teams can vary widely in levels of skill, competence and accuracy. Over time each team will develop a reputation. At the moment, a completely unbiased evaluation of K9 teams in the field does not exist for this industry.
Also please keep in mind that BedBugDog & Bed Bug Dog are trademarks of Florida Canine Academy. K9 team is a generic term that can be used without creating any confusion for the public.
Different providers utilize different training methodologies & have somewhat different inspection philosophies. Personally, I believe that the training & inspection approach that is used by some of my competitors is prone to producing false alerts, for example.
K9 teams trained by any of the companies that you have listed can assist you in battling a bed bug infestation.
If you want to learn about J&K teams....check out the NESDCA website
If you want to learn about FCA Bed Bug Dog teams, please feel free to contact us.
Florida Canine Academy was the first to place K9 teams in the field & is the largest provider of K9's trained for bed bug detection.
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hatebedbugs
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 21
Posted 1 year ago
Wed Sep 3 2008 13:09:25
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Jessip, I did not make reference to SWGDOG developing testing standards. I said, "they were in the process of developing guide lines". So, you and DOUG stand corrected.......
Please don't accuse we of writing something I did not write. It is in front of both of you. I am trying to help you here. SWGDOG is furthermore, attempting to give clarity to terminology; certification, accreditation.Have a nice day
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HBB
Are you asserting that my statement is inaccurate because I didn't use the word guidelines?
Can you point out specifically where in my comments that I accused you of writing something that you didn't write. That comment didn't make any sense.
The last time I communicated with SWGDOG, I was told that they did not have any immediate plans to publish any new guidelines.
What qualifies you to speak for SWGDOG?
Do you have ANY evidence to back up the claims that you have made in your comments?
What are your personal qualifications to make statements on the subject of K9 scent detection?
Also, you really ought to consider getting a good spelling & grammar check program or taking some remedial English classes.
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hatebedbugs
banned
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 21
Posted 1 year ago
Wed Sep 3 2008 16:24:09
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Doug, it is beneath my dignity to respond to the aspersions you cast upon my writing skills and or, my neglect to use my spell check. Now, I never said any where, in our previous discussions that the SWGDOG were, in the process of developing "new" guidelines. Again you have taken my remarks totally out of context. You need to go and familiarize yourself with the SWGDOG web site their purpose and what they are trying to accomplish. As far as my qualification's, I am certified and accredited just like you and all of the members of NESDCA. Now be nice!.......And have a wonbderful day
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HBB
The publish new guidelines language was a quote from the email that I received from SWGDOG roughly one year ago.
You should read the comments more closely before you make accusations.
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HBB
Don't take my spell check comment too personally.
I use the spell check program provided on the website & my comments are still riddled with errors due to a mild dyslexia problem that the spell check program fails to detect.
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hatebedbugs - 5 days ago »
I think exposing those potential conflicts of interest is, important. I might add, I have never met a member of the NESDCA.I think exposing potential conflicts of interest is important too, hatebedbugs.
Are you a bed bug dog handler, and have you mentioned this fact?
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spideyjg - 4 days ago »
Yes there does seem to be some friction about BB dogs between parties and IMHO this board isn't the place to hash that out. As you said many of us are looking for advice and guidance and not qualified nor trying to debate the training, certification, or efficacy of BB dogs.
Jim is correct: most visitors to this site are going through stressful times and want recommendations about bed bug dogs. They'd prefer them from others known to be fellow sufferers.
And they really don't get much from these debates.
If bed bug dog professionals want a special forum set aside for such discussions, I can do it. It is possible to create private forums.
The bottom line is people have reported good experiences with NESDCA and non-NESDCA dogs.
They've had complaints about both types too. -
Jersey
newbite
Joined: Dec '08
Posts: 1
Posted 9 months ago
Fri Feb 13 2009 18:05:13
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I'm a private citizen and have nothing to do with the business of bed, bugs, or dogs however for those so called professionals commenting and bickering and fighting in this forum hasn't helped me one bit. Personally I am a disabled health care worker due to a stroke in my early forties, fortunately for me the emergency room was just around the corner otherwise the effect would have been much worse. The Dr's say it was due to high blood pressure which is steadily increasing as I read this useless dribble. You all claim to be the best at what you do or to know it all about everything and let me tell you something, you're not doing your profession a bit of good. As far as I am concerned you are all a bunch of conniving, money grubbing cheats who will do or say anything for a contract or to sell a dog, half of which know nothing about bugs, dogs, or the law and you don't care either as long as you get paid. I have been trying for weeks to find some uniform system of certifying these dogs and the handlers or trainers and every site I go to be it fsik9.com, jkk9.com, or bedbugdog.com has something different to say on the subject and none of you can agree on anything which takes any credibility away from any and all of you. The single organization I have seen which has any interest in bringing unity and organization to this pathetic industry at all has been NESDCA and given how they have been spoken of in reading this blog I am no further in finding any credible information than I was on day one weeks ago. Oh, so what happened weeks ago that has got me so annoyed? One of the organizations mentioned in this post or forum or blog, whatever you want to call it has made claims and represents a company who came into my home to do an inspection with a dog. Now mind you, I have no problem with the dog, it was a cute dog, I like dogs but I have a problem with what occurred by all those here who are claiming to know best. Perhaps it will be best to simply post a letter I had sent asking for advise which nobody can give and now in the midst of an economic crisis this Country has never seen and in the middle of a Northeast winter I am about to be evicted because you guys will do whatever you have to do for the account. I wish you would at least get your sorry acts together so people like me don't have to waste time going to court to none of you know what your doing and if you do, it will catch up with you.
Here's the scenario;A person living in a structure for a number of years
Never seeing a single bug of any kind at any time
Never seeing any slightest trace of bed bug activity
Never experiencing any kind of bed bug bite or any bug bite of any kind
A PCO enters with a non NESDCA trained dog and receives a positive alert
The PCO lies declaring the dog has gone through the closet completely
and thoroughly yet never came near the closet.The PCO see's a skin condition on a person's arm from across the room
and instantly diagnosis's it as bed bug bites when the skin condition
had previously been diagnosed years earlier as a skin condition
completely unrelated to any kind of bugs.The person who lives there who was laying on the bed at the time of
the inspection because of a recently broken leg in four places and is
a disabled medical professional is then evicted because number one
their leg is broken in four places along with numerous other health
conditions including emphysema, cannot comply with the preparation and
is proposing an alternative solution because they have a chronic lung
disease and cannot tolerate the slightest irritants in the environment
and despite the fact that the person has the highest respect for the
science field they are certain they don't now and have never had any
type of problem with bed bugs, bed bug bites, or any other kinds of
bugs or bites.
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