Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Bed bug pest control firms (PCOs), Bed bug k9s, etc.
dog inspection - false positive
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dreamersball
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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Nov 20 2009 13:52:17
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I'm a bit shy about posting on forums, but I wanted to share my story in case it helps others.
Recently we got some bites and worried that we had bedbugs. We hadn't found any actual bugs, but they're pretty small so we figured we should get an inspection. An inspector came, didn't find any bugs, but we decided to get a K9 inspection, because we figured if we did have them it wasn't a huge infestation but we wanted to nip it in the bud. It's hard not to get hysterical about the possibility of having bedbugs.
The K9 inspection was pretty brief; the dog stayed on the leash & the handler led it all over the house fairly quickly. When it went into the bedroom under suspicion, it sat down right next to the bed, on the side where the bites had been happening. Sitting down is the dog's signal, apparently, that it has smelled bedbugs. So, we concluded that we had them, though the inspector did not do any visual inspection in the area where the dog sat down -- to confirm the presence of the bugs.
We decided to think carefully about treatment options, because they're so expensive and we don't have a lot of money. That's when I came across this forum and read some of the advice from killerqueen. We decided it'd be cheaper to pay for another, more thorough inspection, rather than do a treatment, because the fact was, we hadn't ever actually seen a bug.
We called Boot-a-Pest, and John came out and did a really, really thorough inspection. He worked more slowly and carefully than the inspection from the previous company. Whenever he found a dark spot that looked like blood, he had a special testing thing he did (it was very CSI) to see if it was blood. He took off the covering of the box spring and looked there; he then staple-gunned it back on. He didn't find anything (except one book louse and some spiders). He declared us bedbug free.
John encouraged me to put this information out there, because it does appear that the dog inspections can result in false positives (as well as false negatives). Also, just because you have bites, doesn't mean you have bedbugs in your home.
Finally, I would like to give a huge public thanks to Boot-a-Pest (killerqueen) for helping us with this situation. He was friendly, down-to-earth, and professional. This man knows his bugs -- not just bedbugs but all bugs. I also feel like we could call him again if the bites returned, and he would help us deal with the situation sensibly and effectively. But frankly I hope I never have to call him again.
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soscared
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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Nov 20 2009 16:29:22
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Thank you for sharing! Do you still get bites?
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bugbuster
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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Nov 20 2009 20:24:21
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Dreamersball, thanks for posting this. You are luckier than my sister. She had a dog alert all over her apartment, after she had some oddly itchy spots. The PCO did a brief visual inspection afterwards inspect, but didn't find anything - yet still declared that she had them. She had three chemical treatments, after which the dog came in and alerted all over the place again.
By this time, I had contacted KillerQueen and he went over there and did a thorough inspection. He didn't find any sign that she had ever had them, although he found carpet beetles and carpet beetle larvae everywhere (the larvae can cause a bite-like allergic reaction). He said there would have been some evidence somewhere of bedbug presence and there was nothing to indicate that she had ever had them.
He set her mind at ease, and she hasn't had a scare since. Now, part two...false negative. We have a situation in our building right now. A dog was brought in to check the surrounding apartments, with special attention supposed to be given to the one directly above. The dog did not alert in this apartment. KillerQueen came in and in a few short minutes uncovered a sizable infestation.
I think the extent and thoroughness of KillerQueen's inspections is extraordinary, and I don't know who - if anyone - out there has the time and patience to do what he does. But here are two cases where considerable expense and trauma could have been avoided if the people involved had not taken the dog's word for it and called him in from the start.
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dreamersball
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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 14:10:05
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soscared - 21 hours ago »
Thank you for sharing! Do you still get bites?I haven't gotten a bite in 2-3 weeks. I have psychosomatic itching all the time, however; killerqueen said that and being freaked out by bits of fluff should last about 6 years.
I'll report back if anything untoward happens, but we're hoping we "dodged a bullet" as my dad would say.
One confounding factor I should add is that flew to LA & stayed in a hotel for a weekend not long before the bites appeared -- I'm not sure about the exact timing -- so it may be that it was there or at some point during the traveling that we got the bites. A friend of mine told me that she always sees a bite or two of some sort after she goes to a movie theater in manhattan. This has never happened to me, but of course it makes me never want to go to a movie again.
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bugbuster
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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 15:17:30
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Which movie theater?
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 16:49:59
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The root problem here is that there was no physical confirmation of the K9 alert.
K9 alerts must verified with visual confirmation.
A properly handled K9 is a wonderful screening tool, but ultimately the inspection becomes a visual one after the K9 has identified a well defined search area.
The PCOs that are creating these problems are the ones that are not performing this critical quality control procedure.
As Dr. Potter recently stated during his presentation at Pestworld (paraphrasing Tom Cruise)
"SHOW ME THE BUGS!!!"
If the K9 alerts are properly confirmed ... We won't see these kind of problems.
We can't just say that a similar dog handled by its trainer was 98% accurate in the laboratory.
We need to break out a flashlight and get down on bended knee and verify any K9 alerts prior to treatment.
We won't be able to verify every single alert do to inaccessible spaces & other conditions.... but we should be confirming the majority of the alerts... if the handler is performing his job properly.
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bugbuster
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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 16:54:24
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The question remains, however, what do you do when a dog alerts and a visual inspection yields nothing? Do you treat or not? That was dreamersball's situation - she did not treat - and my sister's - and she did.
We won't get into how a dog could have completely missed an infestation that was so bad the bed frame couldn't be salvaged.
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Nov 21 2009 18:23:38
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We need to look at all of the evidence, then the PCO needs to make the judgment based on training, experience and statutory requirements.
If we have unconfirmed alerts we should perform the job the same way we would if the dog was not present.
If a K9 misses a large colony like you are describing... The problem is going to be due to poor handling practices... If there is an unmistakable scent image, then it is clear that we are looking at handler errors.
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Nov 22 2009 20:20:23
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Thank you for the kind words dreamersball! I hope the message helps others as well.
"K9 alerts must verified with visual confirmation.
A properly handled K9 is a wonderful screening tool, but ultimately the inspection becomes a visual one after the K9 has identified a well defined search area."
I'm guessing most guys doing inspections can't locate the bed and need the dog to bring them to it.
I'm still wondering though, if the dog does hit on a box spring or a slat bed, you as the handler look over these areas to confirm the evidence the dog is pointing to, when do you reward the dog with food? Only after you confirm the hit?
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Nov 23 2009 3:12:47
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"I'm guessing most guys doing inspections can't locate the bed and need the dog to bring them to it."
Is this your concept of an intelligent comment?
I am happy to respond to questions, but your juvenile sarcasm is becoming unprofessional.
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dreamersball
newbite
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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Nov 24 2009 15:45:49
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bugbuster - 3 days ago »
Which movie theater?she never mentioned which, but this will fan the flames of our paranoia:
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Nov 24 2009 23:08:58
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Careful Doug, you’re starting to sound and look like a desperate snake oil salesman.
Ending many posts with I just PM’ed you, may leave people to think you may be furthering the sales pitch for the k9 industry. My clients have told me they get private messages from you after they post negative comments on the inspections they had with a K9. You should mind your business.
When I first joined this site in my profile I had “leave the dog in the park” hire a professional. I removed it and tried to keep an open mind for the use of a dog with regard to inspections. But after building my business up and following countless inspections behind dogs that were wrong, I find them useless. Five to seven inspections a week behind false positives is pathetic. And yes false negs are also on the rise as well.
The problem is the public only hears about the accuracy percentage these dogs get when they are field tested by master trainers with years of experience. It’s that same trainer who worked with this dog for 400-600 hours. What they don’t know is that the dogs are ruined by the handlers that purchase them. And I’m estimating it’s within weeks if not days after the purchase. I know it’s not your business to ensure that these teams confirm anything during an inspection and I’m sure you encourage them to do so while they spend the time training / learning how to handle the dog. But the fact is people are spending anywhere from 250.00 to 700.00 for an inspection and I can count on one hand the number of times people told me a handler actually found a bug.
If I was spending this kind of money simply to confirm an infestation I would expect to see something. I have always said, finding the bug should be the easy part, getting rid of the problem is the bigger challenge. But the fact still remains the same for me, handler’s barely look for evidence the dog alerts to. Fact is here in NY 98% don’t look at all. People who are uneducated about the k9 approach believe their suspicions because of the false numbers the press give the dogs with regard to accuracy. They have bites, the pooch said yes, let’s treat for bed bugs. Thousands of dollars later the original problem is not resolved. I have seen cancer, dermatitis, scabies, fleas, mites, carpet beetles, mosquitoes, gnats, paranoia, and God knows what else.
I have seen people get threatened with lawsuits (myself included) when they point out the experience they had publicly with companies that did k9 inspections with the wrong results. It’s pathetic and people need to learn more.
The fact is if a k9 hits on a bed … it will take 20-30 minutes on a low level infestation to confirm the hit be it inside a box spring or a platform bed. Just tell me you can hold off on feeding the dog that long before rewarding it with food? The dog will know 20 minutes later it was given food for that hit? And if not, how do you keep the dog on point if the dog hit, you feed it, but there was nothing there after you looked for 20 minutes.
We know there is a market for the K9, we know hits need to be confirmed, what the public knows and pays for is a different story. So be honest Doug, how can one keep his pooch accurate even if he wanted to confirm the hit. As I posted almost a year ago, without controlling the sales criteria the k9 industry will be ruined in less than 3 years.
For those who read this, don’t worry, I’m not in the market for a dog, unlike the public I know to confirm the hits it will take more time than any team wants to spend looking and I know where to look …… I don't need to be directed. There are two sides to the leash, do you know what end is incharge?
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Nov 25 2009 3:12:53
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DougSummersMS - 3 days ago »
The root problem here is that there was no physical confirmation of the K9 alert.
K9 alerts must verified with visual confirmation.
A properly handled K9 is a wonderful screening tool, but ultimately the inspection becomes a visual one after the K9 has identified a well defined search area.
The PCOs that are creating these problems are the ones that are not performing this critical quality control procedure.
As Dr. Potter recently stated during his presentation at Pestworld (paraphrasing Tom Cruise)
"SHOW ME THE BUGS!!!"
If the K9 alerts are properly confirmed ... We won't see these kind of problems.
We can't just say that a similar dog handled by its trainer was 98% accurate in the laboratory.
We need to break out a flashlight and get down on bended knee and verify any K9 alerts prior to treatment.
We won't be able to verify every single alert do to inaccessible spaces & other conditions.... but we should be confirming the majority of the alerts... if the handler is performing his job properly.John,
Perhaps you can identify which part of my comment that you consider to be snake oil.It is becoming quite obvious that you have a hidden agenda here with K9 scent detection...
I take great personal offense at the comments that you have directed towards me...
I usually send out my contact information in a PM... I sometimes spend hours on the phone attempting to assist people that have questions about K9 inspections.
I am totally disgusted by your suggestion that I have some kind of sinister motivation for doing so.
If you have further questions about K9 scent detection... Direct them to Pepe or Brian Taggart and we will see how forthcoming my competition is with answers on these issues.
I have been telling consumers that K9 alerts must be confirmed to be valid for 4 years now...
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nervousaboutbedbugs
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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Nov 25 2009 13:02:48
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Just to weigh in, I've had great experiences with both of you outside of this forum. KQ- you performed the only thorough search of my house that I was able to find. Doug - you spent close to 3 hours discussing the ups/downs of dog searches, and also provided invaluable advice and sympathy to my situation. Clearly this is a topic you will not find common ground on, but that does not take away from the professionalism or expertise of either of you.
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old timer
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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Nov 27 2009 17:03:21
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I'm positive I have a false positive, are you sure, I'm positive, completely? positive but what does that mean? It means a false positive means "the dog is WRONG or perhaps confused not to mention the handler.
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Bed Bug Master
newbite
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Nov 29 2009 0:27:43
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Killer Queen makes some very strong points about the Positions that you, Mr. Summers have taken relating to bed bug detection dogs and training. You claim that you are in this forum to share your knowledge then, why the need for the PM's. I believe all of us would benifit with the extended information you are offering to the PM. It makes it seem like you are selling your dogs or your client services behind the scenes. This has the apperance and leads us to believe that you may not be as alturistic as you try to make yourself out to be. It seems as though your are always having to defend the product that you are selling; BED BUG DETECTION DOGS. I think I wil take this to a new thread. All bed bug dog sales people trainers and handlers need to clear the air.
BBM
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bait
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Nov 29 2009 0:47:55
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PCOs also have a percentage of false negatives. Just because a PCO can't find evidence doesn't always mean BBs aren't there. The difference is the dog can't make excuses. It just doesn't find anything and that's the end of it. A PCO can chaulk it up to a skin condition, a mental condition, or, like I heard once, so someone can withhold rent.
Just sayin'.
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Nov 29 2009 21:55:54
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Doug,
I fired back because of what you said here.
Is this your concept of an intelligent comment?
I am happy to respond to questions, but your juvenile sarcasm is becoming unprofessional.
I was quoting what you said to be accurate. The dog and the bed comment were not directed at you, but rather for the public to think about things.
I don’t have a hidden agenda with regard to k9 detection. I just don’t see how it can work in most cases. I get that it’s a screening tool but if it all comes down to visual confirmation, most are not doing it, and everyone who is clueless, well, they are taking the word of the dog without confirmation. I just see a lot wrong with the industry, and I know a lot is not reported to the press, or the person paying for an inspection.
I respect the fact that you are here helping many people with questions, even those that are not about K9’s. But I just want to see more reports of false positives, and what in fact the dog is actually capable of.
I will say again, I can’t see it possible to hold a dog off for 20 minutes or more while looking for confirmation of a hit. Am I missing something? How in fact can anyone keep a K9 on point when the reward is food? And I’m talking about real world infestations, not a jar of bed bugs handlers hide for the dog to find. Most people will find a jar of bugs in 10 minutes and we know the dog can pick-up the scent of it as well, that does not impress me like it does the public.
Just would love to see, hear, find, a K9 team who is actually 90 plus % accurate as most advertise they are. I would love to see them spending more than 15 minutes during an inspection. I mean my God, if the dog is bringing you to an area in question … why the hell can’t these guys produce a bug? I have worked behind just about all of these K9 teams … I can’t begin to tell you how many are wrong, and on a regular basis. I know I can miss something, I’m human, but I give it everything I have to ensure my report of all clear or a positive ID for bed bugs.
Every person who calls me after they had a K9 inspection tells me they never were shown a bug. That bothers me.
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Nov 29 2009 22:03:16
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nervousaboutbedbugs - 4 days ago »
Just to weigh in, I've had great experiences with both of you outside of this forum. KQ- you performed the only thorough search of my house that I was able to find. Doug - you spent close to 3 hours discussing the ups/downs of dog searches, and also provided invaluable advice and sympathy to my situation. Clearly this is a topic you will not find common ground on, but that does not take away from the professionalism or expertise of either of you.Thank You Nervous,
As I recall you had a few positive hits by K9's from more than one company & nobody could produce a bug for you either.
I did an inspection for you so that you would not invest in a thermal treatment that was not needed. I understand you went forward with that treatment without evidence, correct?
Did you find any dead bugs yet? No, I’m sure you didn't .. because you never had bed bugs to begin with. You are out of the season for biting insects in your area now I’m sure. I’m sure this is why you have not been getting bites like you did.. Please don't be so frightened next summer, and remember, other bugs bite!
Bless you and your family, hope all is well.
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Nov 29 2009 23:43:36
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KQ, the dog is rewarded (food, play, whatever)for doing its job. That job is alerting the handler when he/she detects the imprinted scent. What reasons other than poor handling and or poor continual training is there for the dog to alert to a scent it is not imprinted with?
Every single time the dog alerts I do a visual, having her as close to 100% is a benefit to me. If she alerted to an area and I could not initially find evidence there are techniques one could use to narrow down the search area.I don't know if you have kids but it is kinda the same thing dealing with kids. Kids sometimes tell false truth's as a parent we need to correct that behavior, same thing with a dog. If a child lied once, is everything out of there mouth a lie? I am sure you have heard the saying "Fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on me" (I think this was coined by a K-9 handler
The only thing I can tell you is my dog respects me and I respect my dog. It has been said many times before if customers would demand a visual inspection of alerted areas a lot of the " false positives" would go away.
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your host
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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Dec 1 2009 11:52:10
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Bed Bug Master,
Are you Gary?
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BugBoy911
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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Dec 2 2009 10:06:07
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Just buy a BedBug dog!! Poof!!!! Your now an expert bedbug professional. "Now were is the bed?" Spot, sick em!!! LOL... Unprofessional!?!?! Charging $1500 just because "The Dog," said so.... Now who's unprofessional!?!?! ITs a joke, and because of people like Killerqueen NY may have a chance to win over this pest, not because of dogs.
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bait
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Posted 3 years ago
Thu Dec 3 2009 0:06:19
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Hi Bugboy. Dogs can be an effective tool. Dogs sniff out bombs, drugs, and even cancer. And they don't lie. If the dog's sniffer has passed his/her tests, the only problem can be the handler. Not every dog will have the right nose and temperament, but that sort of thing could be eliminated at the onset.
Humans make mistakes. PCOs are not gods, despite what you read on this forum. And if a PCO is wrong, he/she can easily manipulate their way out of being responsible for their mistakes. I gave a few examples above. I for one have never had a real jackass PCO, but I definitely have had a slew of PCO's that cannot solve my problem.
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durham-nc
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Posted 3 years ago
Thu Dec 3 2009 0:37:55
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we're considering a k9 inspection with A3, which costs $250/hour with a minimum of 2 hours.
has anyone used A3 for a dog inspection?
did they actually give you the full 2 hours?
did the handler confirm the dog's positive and produce bugs?i ask because the person i spoke to on the phone said the dogs were completely accurate and he didn't know if they would do a human inspection to confirm, which sounded off. but maybe he was just the receptionist for the overall pco and cleaning business and just didn't know.
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Thu Dec 3 2009 10:11:56
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I am not familiar with A3... Can you find out the name of the dog and the handler?
You could check with Killingsworth to see if their Bed Bug Dog is available in your area.
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buggyinsyracuse
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 12:10:25
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DQ - ummmm...your response has one fatal flaw. There's no way a doctor or dermatologist can 100% diagnose a bed bug bite. I wouldn't expect any respectable PCO to give out that suggestion.
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newbite
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 12:44:34
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buggyinsyracuse - 25 minutes ago »
DQ - ummmm...your response has one fatal flaw. There's no way a doctor or dermatologist can 100% diagnose a bed bug bite. I wouldn't expect any respectable PCO to give out that suggestion.You may be right about that. However, I get a lot of referrals from a dermatologist, who sends his patients to me. Evidentally, he must know what he is looking at when he examines patients. My bed bug detection dog had found bedbugs in the homes of everyone that he has sent to me.
Typically, a person who has bed bugs will have a series of bites in a straight line. You usually see three bites and they are termed, breakfast, lunch and dinner.[Link to user's site deleted by admin]
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oldtimer
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 12:57:49
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Hi DQ,
You may want to read this thread:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/warning-bed-bug-professionals-please-read-this
Then this thread:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bite-primer-information-on-bites-and-reactions
Bite diagnostic is not accurate and not all get groups of three bites.
The only accurate way to confirm bedbugs is finding live samples, cast skins or faecal traces.
David Cain
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newbite
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 13:11:23
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bed-bugscouk - 4 minutes ago »
Hi DQ,
You may want to read this thread:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/warning-bed-bug-professionals-please-read-this
Then this thread:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bite-primer-information-on-bites-and-reactions
Bite diagnostic is not accurate and not all get groups of three bites.
The only accurate way to confirm bedbugs is finding live samples, cast skins or faecal traces.
David CainDavid:
What you are saying makes sense. However, if the bed bugs were so easy to find, we wouldn't need bed bug detection dogs. I have gone to numerous homes where the people were complaining of bites and my dog alerted to the presence of bedbugs. However, I wasn't able to find any bed bugs, bedbug skins, or fecal matter. After these homes were treated for bed bugs, the people did not report being bitten. -
oldtimer
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 13:33:03
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Hi DQ,
If an alert is not visually confirmed then you effectively do not know what you are trying to kill.
There are many other insect related issues that will be resolved with many treatment solutions but there are also other issues that do not relate to insects which can also be permanently or temporarily solved by many treatments. These include things like allergic reactions to carpet beetle hairs where the ionic nature of many insecticides will neutralise the static pockets which cause the issue.
The reality is that although dogs can be a good tool they also have some flaws and false positive alerts do occurs as well as false negative ones.
The principle of visual confirmation is to always ensure that treatments occur when the issue is confirmed and not just suspected. The analogy with drug detection dogs is the conviction comes when the drugs are found and not just because a dog alerts.
I appreciate that there is some resistance to doing this amongst some K9 handlers but this puts them at odds with the wider K9 scent detection world who use dogs to narrow down search and do not take the dogs nose as gospel.
I used to have a K9 team myself, in fact the first in Europe but retired them as we do not do enough office and leisure based projects to justify them given that my manual screening team have a higher throughput and accuracy on homes and hotels.
David
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oldtimer
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 17:19:04
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DQ Pest Control - 3 hours ago »
bed-bugscouk - 4 minutes ago »
Hi DQ,
You may want to read this thread:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/warning-bed-bug-professionals-please-read-this
Then this thread:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bite-primer-information-on-bites-and-reactions
Bite diagnostic is not accurate and not all get groups of three bites.
The only accurate way to confirm bedbugs is finding live samples, cast skins or faecal traces.
David CainDavid:
What you are saying makes sense. However, if the bed bugs were so easy to find, we wouldn't need bed bug detection dogs. I have gone to numerous homes where the people were complaining of bites and my dog alerted to the presence of bedbugs. However, I wasn't able to find any bed bugs, bedbug skins, or fecal matter. After these homes were treated for bed bugs, the people did not report being bitten.No dog needed here. I'll find evidence of an infestation in 15 minutes or less usually. And that's with people complaining of a single bite.
Haven't missed on an inspection in 8 years that I know of.... yet I go behind K9 teams for second opinions daily (2 dogs wrong today) and 95% of the time nothing is there despite the dogs alert. I'll even offer to provide treatment for free at times if the person finds evidence after I leave, proving that's how confident I am of my findings. I have not provided a free treatment to date.
I get referral work from doctors as well ... Only thing the doctors who refer me know that anything is possible. Often times they want to rule out Bed Bugs to help figure out other issues the person may be dealing with. It's a crap shoot with these types of inspections. Meaning it's a 50-50 shot. I have seen poor people suffer through months of time and thousands of dollars because of bogus inspections... I had 1 poor lady treating for 5 months because of BS K9 inspections. She calls me up, I go, I see her "skin reactions" and tell her to see a doctor before I even walked into the house. I do an inspection and find zero evidence despite a dog being there the day before and "confirming" a continued problem.
She had 2 different companies come several times "alerting" to Bed Bugs that were never there.
The poor woman had skin cancer. Hear Me??? SKIN CANCER!!! That could have been dealt with 5 months sooner.
I don't know how "SOME" of you K9 guys sleep at night! It's either you really think this BS about accuracy is true or you don't give a shit and you're looking to make as much money as possible until the rest of the uneducated catch on.
Sorry - Just makes me sick!
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oldtimer
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 18:46:01
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Hi John,
I am feeling for you big guy.
There are a few good K9 teams out there but they all know to look and confirm to prove their dog is correct.
Those that don't or won't will sooner or later be shown up for the side show acts they are.
My only surprise in your post is that it still takes you 15 minutes, I will have to teach you a few tricks when I am next over, LOL.
David
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2r4m
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 19:22:43
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I have a concern. So I had 5 chemical treatments from a pco for bed bugs. I got the bb in June and I discovered them in July. So it's been 2 months now.
For about 4 weeks now i haven't seen any signs of bed bugs. Even though I don't do a intense check.
I have an appt next week for a k9 inspection from a different company then the one who did my chemical treatments. My pco doesnt offer k9 inspections.
Im Moving next month, and even though I haven't seen any bed bugs. I'm Afraid that their might be, and I'll bring to new home.
The dog handler came out today. I was honest and told him everything. I told him I just want the dog to confirm if their is still bed bugs present or not. He said if his dog detects them that he urges me to heat treat my upstairs only with his company, and not do anymore chemical treatments.
Now I'm scared that the dog handler might trick me into believing the dog detects bed bugs so he can get me to use his company.
I dont know what to do
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oldtimer
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 19:33:18
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As David pointed out earlier...Only treat if they are able to verify the presence of live BBs.
K9 alerts are not equivalent to a visual identification... A K9 search is a screening tool that identifies locations for a thorough manual search... The K9 team should lead us to physical evidence.
Installing BB monitors in the areas of interest is another option to help collect a live specimen for confirmation.
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2r4m
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 20:49:56
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Thank You DougsummersMS. I guess that makes a lot of sense. I will only heat treat if the dog and pco both find live bugs. I hope that they dont find any, and im done with this nightmare.
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oldtimer
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 21:03:22
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bed-bugscouk - 2 hours ago »
Hi John,
I am feeling for you big guy.
There are a few good K9 teams out there but they all know to look and confirm to prove their dog is correct.
Those that don't or won't will sooner or later be shown up for the side show acts they are.
My only surprise in your post is that it still takes you 15 minutes, I will have to teach you a few tricks when I am next over, LOL.
Davidlol ... Yeah, I didn't want to show off and say I could do it in 5 minutes flat =)
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oldtimer
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 21:09:59
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DougSummersMS - 1 hour ago »
As David pointed out earlier...Only treat if they are able to verify the presence of live BBs.
K9 alerts are not equivalent to a visual identification... A K9 search is a screening tool that identifies locations for a thorough manual search... The K9 team should lead us to physical evidence.
Installing BB monitors in the areas of interest is another option to help collect a live specimen for confirmation.Love your thoughts and standpoint Doug. In fact, I respect you for repeating it time and time again. The problem we have here in NY and I'm guessing the rest of the country is most of them don't search or know how to search and with so many companies out there offering this type of service the good guys get lost in the mix.
I often get calls each week for inspections in commercial settings. I know my limits and will not inspect a commercial space because I know I'm not going to provide the best service possible. I'll point them in the direction to use a K9 for this but the sad part is I don't have a reference for them. I tell them they have to do their homework and find a guy who will search behind the hit - should a dog react to something.
It's just ugly out there ....and people are being taken countless times a day.
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your host
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Sep 21 2012 21:44:51
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DQ Pest Control,
You are welcome to participate but please read the rules David Cain linked to above.
You seem to have ignored the email I sent you early this morning about the same issue.
I have deleted the posts above promoting your services and linking to our company's website. -
oldtimer
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Posted 9 months ago
Sat Sep 22 2012 11:28:55
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KillerQueen - 14 hours ago »
lol ... Yeah, I didn't want to show off and say I could do it in 5 minutes flat =)5 minutes, pfft, still room for improvement.
I often recall the dodgy doggie man asking in 2009 who could find a single BB in less than 30 minutes, 15 minutes and finally under 10. I only did not put my hand up for under 10 because he asked "anyone apart from the man at the back of the room dressed in black.
I to have a lot of respect for Doug based on his "use the dog to define the manual confirmation area" policy and having met him a few times I know its because he is a good person and cares about what he does.
David
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oldtimer
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Posted 9 months ago
Sat Sep 22 2012 22:52:28
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Thanks for the kind words.
K9 scent detection is a beautiful thing when it is performed properly... It is disheartening to read about sloppy, incompetent handlers that fail to follow the proper protocols.
A K9 handler can never be any less accurate than their ability to perform a thorough manual search... Visual identification is a requirement in many states.
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your host
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Posted 8 months ago
Thu Sep 27 2012 22:24:50
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DQPestControl,
Your latest response adding your link back in was deleted. You quoted my response noting "[Link to user's site deleted by admin]" in that post.
What aspect of "[Link to user's site deleted by admin]" did you not understand? I am the admin and you will be banned permanently from this site if you continue to ignore the site rules and my attempts to communicate with you. Moreover, I will delete each additional post you add which violates this rule.
I am very open to a multitude of diverse voices being present here, but there are certain ground rules including not promoting your own site and business via direct links in your posts. You already have your business website linked through your username, and this is the correct placement for it.
I have repeatedly noted that you are very welcome to participate if you will read and comply with the posted rules.
I prefer to have these kinds of conversations privately, but when you ignore emails, this is impossible.
Please view my email to you, and respond there to confirm you've gotten it or I will have to assume you subscribed with a non-working email and your account will be blocked.
Thank you!
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