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Dog alerted to bed bug/s - PCO coming Monday. What to do in between?
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Aug 20 2011 19:18:01
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Hi all- would love for David to give me his advice if possible, but also interested in other advice.
Well, my worst fears have been pretty much confirmed. After traveling 3 weeks ago, and finding odd bites on me starting about a week ago, I had a reputed K9 company from San Francisco come in and the dog alerted to a corner of the bed in our room, though the handler was not able to offer up actual evidence of a BB.
So, his recommendation was that it was a light infestation, and if we encase mattress/box spring, douse frame in alcohol, wash all bedding/dry on high heat, and use some DE on the metal bed frame, we'd probably be fine. Hmmm, sounds too easy given everything I've read on this forum.
So, called reputable PCO in my area (Western) who deals with BB all the time. HE told me to not touch anything yet, as I could cover up the problem, or remove evidence. They are coming Monday to do a thorough visual inspection.
So I guess my questions are:
Is it safe to wait another 2 days? Is that considered better than starting to wash stuff myself, encase mattress b/4 PCO can inspect it, etc? I'd really like to get some sort of visual confirmation I have these horrid things.
If PCO can't find anything, they probably won't treat, right? So then I'm left to my own devices?
How often will they live in cracks of hardwood floor? Our house is a bit old, all hardwood floors, and some of the slats have teeny tiny openings. I feel like they could be harboring under the house and I'll NEVER get rid of them or see evidence if that's where they are.
The PCO said heat treatment is usually the best, but I keep reading stories from people here who said it didn't work for them.
I have no idea what my infestation level might be. I've read David's recommendations and just don't know how many real bites I have, and what might be hives from nerves.
Some of my "bites" are non-itchy, and look like a tiny pimple with red dot or tiny scab on top. Others seem to pop up as a white hive, then within 5 minutes or so they go down to either nothing, or a tiny, tiny, tiny dot. So it's really hard for me to know if these are ALL BB bites. They are spread out between both arms, my chest, and stomach. If I count them ALL as BB bites, I guess I have about 15-20 since last Thursday when I first noticed this issue. But what's horrible is that I tend to be a "hivey" person, and constantly break out in hives that then go away. So I'm not sure if some of the more hivey ones are bites or nerves.
What's even more frustrating is that I've started sleeping with a pretty tight shirt on, tucked into sleep pants about 6 days ago, and just today had some of the hivey style things appear on my stomach. I know it can take a long time for them to show up though.
Well, advice on how to proceed until PCO comes on Monday would be appreciated, plus maybe recommendations on how to treat. I'm so upset, I can't stop crying and my husband isn't really helping me - he thinks I'm over reacting.
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Aug 20 2011 22:05:16
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I would absolutely follow the PCO's instructions not to do anything before the PCO comes in. It's important not to eliminate evidence or to spread bed bugs. Of course, if you come across a bed bug/egg, you can seal it in a ziploc, and show them the evidence, noting where it was found.
Heat/thermal can work well if one by an experienced and knowledgeable team -- and assuming you do not have a continued source of bed bugs that you're still exposed to (neighbors, work, etc.) See the Success Stories threads for examples. Other options may include Vikane and traditional steam/spray/dust treatments.
As a non-pro, my impression is that the knowledge and skill of the team are more important than the methods used.
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Aug 21 2011 0:15:42
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Thank you, as always. I have a question about protocol should the pco NOT be able to find evidence on Monday.
I still plan to encase mattress and box spring, wash/dry all linens, and possibly douse metal bed frame in alcohol. Once that is done, is it actually better to not isolate the bed? While of love to isolate the bed and get some peace, my concerns are two-fold:
1) my husband is constantly putting things on the bed, so even when he's trying his best, I know he will end up putting pants/shirt/hat or something on the bed which could just up cross contaminating. Right?
2) if the bed is isolated, but there are BB somewhere that pco didn't find, do I have a better chance of finding them if I let them bite and grow/molt from a meal?
I suppose climb ups would catch those bugs trying to climb up and eat, but like I said, feel like it's impossible for husband to not eventually put something on the bed which would cross contaminate. But then, would we end up finding matter on or near bed itself, even if bed is encased? Does encasing the bed actually make things worse in a way, because bugs will just harbor in harder to find areas?
I'm SOOO incredibly confused about best practice and don't really understand all the probabilities or behaviors of these frigging things.
Answers to these questions would be most appreciated.
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BugsMustDie
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 24 2011 8:03:46
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Blechedout,
Your situation sounds very similar to mine - down to the old house and the husband who isn't very cooperative.
You've probably already had the inspection by a PCO, but if you're still uncertain about what to do, I have a little advice from my own experience. First, with a very small infestation, the PCO may not find anything. That doesn't mean they're not there or that the infestation shouldn't be treated. I started treatments 3 weeks into it, but because I didn't do my homework first and find an experienced PCO, I went through 2 months of treatments before (I think) they're finally gone. They will not treat with bites alone, but I was fortunate they at least found blood evidence, which only increased throughout the treatments.
I thought about using heat too, but after reading about it and speaking with Dr. Miller (I am a freelance jouranalist and I am writing about my experience to hopefully inform others - so I called her) - she said that in the case of older homes, heat isn't always a good option since older homes often aren't insulated well and they can't keep the heat at the required temperature to kill everthing. If your PCO suggests heat, I would ask them to use dusts and aerosols too as a back-up and still run everything through the dryer and bag it afterward as a backup.
If your PCO didn't find anything, I recommend at least using the ClimbUps so you can have evidence. At the same time, it doesn't hurt to call multiple PCO's to find one who is experienced with bed bugs - ask for references. - As far as your husband - good luck! -
buggyinsocal
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 24 2011 11:25:32
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First, do almost nothing until the PCO gets in. It's *very* important not to disturb the bed bugs before the inspection.
Not disturbing the bugs in any way dramatically increases the chances that the PCO will find something, and the population of bed bugs isn't going to explode in 2 days. They've likely been there for longer than 2 days already, and hanging out and leaving them for two more dramatically increases your chances of success.
If you *must* do something, begin processing your clothes that can be processed without disturbing the larger bedroom area.
Don't worry about encasements and such until you can talk to the PCO.
Encasements are tricky business. Some PCOs use them while others don't, and how effective they'll be really depends on a lot of variables like what approach your PCO takes and whether you have pets among others.
Some PCOs dislike encasements for exactly the reasons you discuss. If there are bugs harboring inside the mattress or (more likely) the box spring, and you encase, the encasements must remain 100% sealed for at least 18 months.
I have a cat. Wouldn't have worked in my situation.
Protecting the bed will give many people some relief from the feeling of being food for bugs, but you should be aware that protecting the bed will likely lengthen the time it takes to get rid of the infestation.
As for your husband, if you do have bed bugs, you're going to need to find a way to get him to retrain himself. While letting the clothes rest for a few seconds on the bed probably won't cross contaminate, the habit of leaving them there while you've got an active investigation is a bad habit.
If the company doing structural heat treatment is experienced, heat can be very successful. It'll depend on where you are and what PCOs are available.
You might ask any PCOs you're thinking about using how many successful structural heat treatments they've done. I live in southern California (hence the screen name) where heat's been used for a long time for termites, so our PCOs are very experienced with it. My treatment did combine chemicals and heat even though I'm not sure how.
Hang in there, and do let us know what the PCO says.
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 24 2011 21:54:12
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Hi there,
Well, pco came Monday and we spent about two hours tearing the room apart down to taking out drawers from dresser, looking behind outlets, undoing metal bed frame and of course, inspecting matttres thoroughly. We don't have a box spring so that helped. We found not one single drop of evidence.
So, mattresses are now encased and bed is isolated with climb ups. Only problem is, we have a sleep number bed which has hoses attached to plug in the wall. So that does allow for potential access point to bed.
I was feeling pretty good, until I decided to lift up a bunch if husbands clothes lying on the floor in the closet. Saw a teeny liitle grayish looking bug crawling across the floor. It crawled under the baseboard before I could catch it. So now of course I'm concerned that was a nymph, even though I found two other small spiders on the floor at the same time. Different looking though.
Sigh. So while I want desperately to believe I do not have these things, that little bug tripped me up. I want to believe a nymph would prefer to stay closer to our bed or wven on it, but who the heck knows. Now I feel like I have to wait weeks to see if I can find evidence like fecal, cast skins, etc. Very hard to wait. I think about it all day long and had to get sleeping pill from my dr too.
So, no real news at this point.
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 24 2011 22:43:39
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blechedout,
Given the details you've posted in this reply, it sounds like using a passive monitor like a BBAlert Passive might be a better fit for your situation.
Climb Ups are good for people with a known problem who are trying to keep the bugs off the bed and/or someone who is afraid that the bed bugs might be migrating from places other than the bed to the bed and wants to catch them.
It sounds like you're still in the position of not having confirmed that you have bugs.
An alert from the dog without a confirmation from the handler--esp. when a follow up by a second PCO that was as thorough an inspection as you described also turned up nothing--sounds to me like it's got a pretty good chance of being a false positive.
If that's the case, the BBAlert Passive seems like a better fit.
The Climb Up interceptor works by passively trapping any bed bugs who climb up onto the bed in search of food.
Since the dog alerted to the bed, if there is a bed bug hiding in the bed, it's not going to leave the bed to look for food.
BBAlert Passives work by offering bugs an ideal harborage.
Hang on. Don't get grossed out. Well, I mean, don't stop reading just because you're grossed out.
I know it sounds like epic stupidity to offer bed bugs a cozy home close to a food source, but when you're trying to detect them, that's exactly what you want to do.
Bed bugs are masters of stealth. They're small. The immature ones are almost translucent unless they've fed. The eggs are even tinier. They only feed every few days, and when they do feed, it's when we're most likely to be most deeply asleep.
These factors make them very hard to detect, esp. early in an infestation.
Some passive monitors make it easier to detect them by offering the bugs an ideal place to camp out. Properly applied, the monitors are close to a food source. They're designed to feel comfy to the bugs (giving them nooks and crannies to hide out in.) And they make is easy for you to detect the bugs because the bugs are much more likely to hide out in them, which means not having to pull your entire apartment apart every time you inspect.
You would need to remove at least temporarily the Climb Ups (they work differently and counteract the effectiveness of the BBAlert Passive), but they're not expensive, and it sounds like they're a better fit for your situation.
If the BBAlert passive turns up nothing in a few months, you can take them off and install the Climb Ups if you prefer them.
You also may want to contact the invention, David Cain (who's on the boards under bed-bugscouk) to see if the passives would be more effective with the encasements off if you decide to go this route.
I know it doesn't feel like it now, but the fact that the PCO couldn't find evidence is good news. Either you're clear and the dog was a false alarm, or you've got a very early infestation.
It's likely not something you want to hear, but part of what makes bed bugs miserable is the fact that there's so much uncertainty. Even if the PCO today or the dog/handler team had turned something up, the unpleasant reality is that after treatment began, you'd still be feeling a lot of anxiety for probably months post treatment. I had heat treatment which is a one shot deal, and it took me 5 months before I convinced myself they were really gone. I'm pretty far along the anxiety scale, but three years of watching responses on the boards suggests that while I may be a higher anxiety type than some, most people experience a lot of anxiety about bed bugs.
To recap:
Dogs can have false alarms, and without visual confirmation, I wouldn't assume bed bugs although I would be extra vigilant for the next few months.
Having a non-confirmed alert and a thorough PCO inspection turn up nothing inclines me to think that you're not infested, but it'll be a few months before you're sure.
Installing BBAlert Passive monitors on the bed and the couch (and anywhere else people in your residence sleep) seems to me to be the best plan for the next few weeks of extra vigilance. I think they'll give you a better shot at catching any strays, hitch hikers, or early arrivals.
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 24 2011 23:18:13
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I'm with buggyinsocal, I would worry about a false positive here. Glad to hear the dog handler did a visual to confirm the dog, kudos to whoever that company is as it is really industry standard now to do the visual search to confirm what the dog is telling us. Always good to hear about companies doing things the right way, but without a visual confirmation, I would worry you may not have bed bugs and would hate to see you go through a lot of time and effort for a problem that isn't there. I would not assume that you have bed bugs, not really enough evidence yet. False positives and negatives occur, hence the reason for the industry insisting upon visual confirmation.
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 24 2011 23:19:11
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omg! I just noticed I'm a senior member. I have the grey hairs to prove it, though i think many were caused by the final testing on the Packtite Closet.
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 24 2011 23:23:21
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Thank you so much. I am also using a passive alert on the bed. Here's why...
About 5 days before the dog came in, I installed the passive alert on the bed which turned ip nothing. Dog comes, alerts a positive on end corner of bed. Nowhere else. Handler barely looks for evidence and advises I self treat. Two days later, pco comes in and can't find one single suspicious thing. We then encase matresses, put climb ups on and I install a new passive alert monitor because the bed cannot be completely isolated due to the air hoses that run along the ground to the wall giving them another access point.
That was Monday that we did that. So I do have passive monitor since I can't fully isolate the bed.
I am VERY hesitant to remove the mattresses in case I did trap something in there. I felt like if they already had a cozy hiding place, why relocate to the passive monitor that I already had on there for about 5 days with no results?
This is a very difficult situation/process. Am trying Soooo hard not to be hyper paranoid without full blown evidence, but it's hard given all the terrible stories on this forum.
I have pmd David with my story, and he feels fairly confident though of course not certain that the pco would have found something after all the inpecting he did. I mean , we tore everything apart.
tired, frustrated and sad...
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Aug 24 2011 23:29:28
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Djames, the dig handler did not provide me with any visual confirmation. He lifted up the sheets on one corner of the bed and that was it. So really no kudos to the handler in my opinion
But kudos to hydrex pest from sonoma county california for sending me an amazing tech who took 2 hours searching with me. He feels pretty confident we would have found something. He says he almost always finds visual confirm if issue has been around for a few weeks. But sti, who knows.
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 0:12:00
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I had an almost entirely positive experience with my local Hydrex office too.
If you've already talked to David about your plan, then I won't worry too much about you. You're in very good hands.
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 0:17:50
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A two hour human inspection sounds good, blechedout.
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 0:25:35
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Hi both of u,
Thank you for not feeding my paranoia first and foremost. Appreciate your sound advice.
David does not know that I installed passive alert along with climb ups. He just seems to feel my lack of physical evidence with such an exhausting physical search was possibly indicative of false dog alert
So my reason for using both the passive monitor and climb ups is because I can't fully isolate our bed because of the air hoses that attach to it from the plug in the wall and electrical unit that must sit on the floor. So I thought, climb ups for the bugs that may not enter/exit via hoses, and passive monitor for those that do use the hoses and then need a comfy home. Again, so confusing.
Thoughts?
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 0:31:13
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My understanding is you should not use the two (ClimbUps and BBalert Passive) together. This comes from the BBAlert Passive inventor (David Cain).
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 0:49:37
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Thanks nobugs. That is my understanding too. But what about my weird situation where I can't fully isolate my bed? My logic tells me that climb ups for those that try and enter/exit via frame legs, and passive for those that enter via air hoses and then want a comfy spot.
Thoughts? Anyone?
Sigh, so challenging this ordeal.
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 1:10:05
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These two products don't work in concert. They're at odds, design-wise.
The idea of the BBAlert Passive is to allow bed bugs to come to it and harbor, so you will know you have them. (The device can also be removed and sealed in a ziploc to provide evidence/clear away harboring bugs.)
The idea behind ClimbUps is they will let you know if a bed bug crawls onto or off of the bed. And it will intercept them.
We don't recommend true "isolation" of the bed, but if someone really wants to keep bed bugs out of beds which it can be used with, ClimbUps will at least keep bed bugs from climbing onto the bed to feed on you. That's not true in your situation.
In your case, I think I would use the Passive and skip the ClimbUps because (1) they should not be used together, and (2) I don't think ClimbUps will be very effective at what they're designed to do if you have pipes attached from wall to bed.
If you want to know if you have bed bugs, a BBAlert Passive might be helpful. David can perhaps advise you on how they work with the bed situation you describe.
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 1:14:28
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Thanks nobugs. I've already pmd David three times about separate questions. Am so worried I am bugging him, no pun intended. Should inpm him once more with this question? Am afraid of becoming a nuisance.
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 1:20:22
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My impression is David's having a busy week. I suspect he also prefers answering questions on the forums rather than via PMs, because more people benefit.
If you have directed David to this thread already, I don't think you need to PM him again. I would give it a bit of time.
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 1:32:08
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I have not directed him to the thread, how do I do that? Sorry, a bit new to me.
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 1:35:10
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See your PMs.
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 13:13:35
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David was nice enough to get back to my other PM's, so he recommended that I may not want to use the climb-ups w/ passive monitor, even w/ my odd bed situation not being perfectly isolated. He has not tested the climb-ups enough, and thinks they MAY reduce effectiveness of passive monitor but he can't say for sure.
He also said he's not a huge fan of encasements (I think he means mostly while in the detection phase) but since I already had them on, best to leave them on.
So, I guess it's a judgement call on my part. Again, sigh. Positive thinking, right?
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 13:26:22
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Nobugsonme - 12 hours ago »
My impression is David's having a busy week.Da Da Da - Nobugs you win understatement of the week. I have been rushing to get things done as I am offline for the weekend. I have also not been sleeping well of recent and keep seeing 5:30 am on the clock before I eventually sleep.
Its what comes of dealing with patent lawyers and training new technicians at the same time. The good news however is that we are getting granted soon and I will have another technicians and thus more capacity in the next few weeks.
David
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 13:28:34
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blechedout,
I totally respect David's experience and understand his concerns about encasements. Another person who I believe has recommended against encasements is Richard Naylor, a UK entomologist.
Keep in mind that both are in the UK.
Most North American PCOs and entomologists seem to be pro-encasement. I can't name any off-hand who suggest not using them in general.
Moreover, my understanding is that most UK beds don't have box springs. Box springs are really notorious bed bug harborages and many have suggested encasements are a must if you have a box spring.
Note: KillerQueen has suggested a mattress encasement be used on the box, because the box springs encasements aren't as sturdy. I believe all of this is covered in the encasements FAQ.
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 13:34:48
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Nobugsonme - 1 minute ago »
Moreover, my understanding is that most UK beds don't have box springs. Box springs are really notorious bed bug harborages and many have suggested encasements are a must if you have a box spring.
The divan bed is the UK version of a box spring. If you imagine a box spring with wheels and draws its actually more fo a nightmare to treat than a simple box spring on a metal riser or platform.
However I still favour a good quality thorough treatment over an encasement but part of that is professional pride and part is because with wheels and various other attached items the risk and need to tear encasements its greater here. I guess its one of those necessity is the mother of inventions moments, they don't work well for us so we developed better ways of working.
David
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your host
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Thu Aug 25 2011 13:41:20
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bed-bugscouk - 3 minutes ago »
The ]divan bed is the UK version of a box spring. If you imagine a box spring with wheels and draws its actually more fo a nightmare to treat than a simple box spring on a metal riser or platform.
Thanks, David.
But how does this fit into the encasement argument: divan beds can't really be encased, right? How would you encase something with wheels coming out of it?
By the way, your photo link did not load for me. Here's another divan bed.
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 13:53:45
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I'm not a PCO or any kind of professional bed bug studier or treater, but I do think that even in the US, there are situations in which an encasement may be ill-advised.
Specifically, people with cats.
I *am* a cat owner.
The problem with an encasement is that if you encase a box spring with bugs or eggs inside it, that encasement has to stay 100% impermeable for at least 18 months. No zipper failures. No cat's claws puncturing the encasements. And so on.
I'm opposed to declawing cats as the best science suggests it's unbearable cruel to them in many, many ways.
The little caps that get glued on over their claws only last for a certain length of time and can fall off.
Clipping a cat's claws every few days for 18 months to 2 years seems like a big commitment, one that, frankly, I didn't stick with for more than a few months being bed bug free even though I have a cat.
For that reason, I think it's important that people understand the limitations of encasements even when their PCOs suggest or require them.
I still have one on my mattress. It's been there since before the passive monitors we now have, and it's good for dust mites which my doc wants me to limit my exposure to even though I don't appear to be allergic. For a short single woman, it does make the mattress easier to move around during inspections too.
Sometimes, and I'm not referring to the original poster here so much as posts I've seen over time on the boards, I think people engage in a little magical thinking when it comes to encasements, as if "If I put an encasement on my bed, I will forever be bed bug free." That use of encasements is doomed to fail.
However, using them for specific purposes can be very, very helpful. But I don't rely on encasements alone to prevent bed bugs. It's one more tool in the arsenal, but like any tool, it's important to understand how it works and what both its limits and benefits are.
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 14:13:47
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buggyinsocal - 18 minutes ago »
I'm not a PCO or any kind of professional bed bug studier or treater, but I do think that even in the US, there are situations in which an encasement may be ill-advised.
Specifically, people with cats.I agree, buggyinsocal.
This issue is also covered in the encasements FAQ.
I hope you and David will both look at the encasements page and consider whether you'd add anything or change the wording.
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 15:01:12
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Hi,
I will add it to my list of things to look at and do.
There is a way of sealing holes in encasements around things like the wheels but at this point in time it is subject to a patent application and I cant discuss the details. When I can I promise I will.
David
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blechedout
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 15:43:44
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I read the FAQs and am definitely understanding more about the encasements pros/cons. We don't have pets, so that is a pro. I have NO problem leaving the encasements on for 2 years, and ensuring they are not damaged as best I can.
I have a sleep number bed, which if nobody has seen before, is pretty odd. The "box spring" is actually a plastic "box" that comes apart in sections pretty easily. There are some pretty big grooves where the large pieces slide together which seems like an ideal place for BB to hide. My PCO and I undid the entire thing, and didn't see anything, but I encased it anyway to prevent future hiding places. My concern was that everytime I want to do an inspection, I cannot take this thing apart and put it back together.
As for the mattress itself, the outside is covered with a huge mattress cover that zips around the entire thing. Inside are the two air chambers, with tons of foam, and there is a VERY easy access point into this complicated structure via where the air hoses connect to the inside of mattress. I HAD to encase this thing in my opinion, given how easy it would be for BB to harbor inside that thing in a place that would be difficult for me to find by myself. Again, my PCO and I unzipped the mattress cover, took out all the foam, etc. and didn't find anything. But still.....
The encasement is tough, because it's specific to a sleep number bed and supposed to be BB approved. There are these foam things coming out the head of the encasement that the air nozzles slip through which to me, still allowed a BB to slip through the foam, and up into the mattress. So I took a ton of plastic packing tape, and taped up the potential access point TIGHTLY. I'm pretty sure nothing can slip through all that packing tape (or at least I hope). And I will continue to reinforce the packing tape in case of loosening/pulling away due to heat, or just general wear.
I guess my thinking is, would rather have things encased to hopefully make searching easier. I understand it doesn't keep you from getting infested or rid an infestation that exists outside the bed. I just wanted to make my life a little easier when I'm conducting my searches. My bed is complicated and to tear it apart everytime I need to search would be very difficult. Maybe my logic is out of whack, by trapping the potential live bug, only to have it escape by mistake 6 months from now and deal with this nightmare again.
I will probably now double encase the plastic platform, since my bed does sit on a metal frame and could possibly tear. And tape up the ends of the frame to soften them. And in fact, may end up just throwing out my encased bed and buying another. Honestly, money is no object to me in protecting myself from this.
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Joined: Mar '07
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Aug 25 2011 23:15:58
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Thanks, David!
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