Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Bed bug science, "experiments," etc.

Does sticky tape work for bedbugs?

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  1. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Apr 7 2014 17:55:37
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    Hi,

    I shot this video so you can judge for yourselves.

    A single unfed bedbug was placed in the middle of the circle of paper and filmed for 30 minutes. The footage is 10X speed so you can see the effect very quickly.

    http://youtu.be/LIDnn34xMNg

    I have added links to good resources at the end of the footage so that if you choose to "like" thumbs up or post a link elsewhere you will be helping to spread the word.

    I hope that explains why I am so anti tapes when it comes to bedbugs.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

  2. P Bello

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Apr 7 2014 18:34:38
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    Hmmm . . .

    I've been in countless homes where the residents placed tape sticky side up around the perimeter of their rooms to catch bed bugs and there were numerous bed bugs stuck on the tape.

    Will many bed bugs avoid the tape? Yes.

    Will ALL of the bed bugs avoid the tape and not be captured? No.

    Is using tape for such purposes "totally useless as one individual here would contend? No.

    It is what it is.

    pjb

  3. ITortureBugs4Revenge

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Apr 7 2014 19:23:02
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    In my opinion using sticky tape for bug control would be fraught with problems, namely the fact that household dust, lint and pet hair would start settling on the tape surface almost immediately and it would then act like a bridge the bugs can use to cross over. The reason i never even bothered with using the stuff back when i had an infestation, after i watched a nature show on TV that showed fire ants using floating twigs and leaves to cross rivers i figured insects of all kinds, including bedbugs would have no trouble at all finding a way to cross a half-inch wide strip of sticky tape.

    .....I am NOT an expert.....

    Any advice i give here is based solely on my own personal experiences in dealing with bedbugs & other household vermin.
  4. P Bello

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 1:59:54
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    I agree that "half inch wide tape" likely would be useless.

    However, no one suggested such wimpy tape and the tape I've seen at infested locations with plenty of bed bugs stuck on it has been duct tape, packing tape and double sided carpet tape all of which are substantially broader than just one half inch.

    Bed bugs are tactile critters and may detect and avoid sticky surfaces however, such avoidance does not happen 100% of the time with 100% of the bugs present and some bugs will be captured on the tape.

    pjb

  5. endless_nightmare

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 2:12:34
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    Wow that sure is an interesting video

    The tape will not catch them, nor sticky traps I guess

    But doesn't this somewhat proves that the tapes is an effective barrier ? Since the bug will never cross it I mean?

    Andrea
    not a PCO
    Spinal Cord Injury Advocacy/Volunteer
  6. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 8:50:47
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    Great video, David. It goes a long way in showing just how adverse bed bugs are to stepping onto sticky tape….and how the use of such tape could lead to dispersal.

    If I were to bring home bed bugs (knocking on wood for that to NEVER happen), I would want them all to come join me on my bed as opposed to spreading around different areas. To me, if just seems like if the bugs are all in one place (bed), it would be easier to treat than if they were dispersed to the other furniture in the room.

    Maybe I’m wrong in my thinking? But, as a layperson who has only dealt with “head bugs”, it just seems like I would want to do everything I could NOT to disperse them.

    But, knowing how I reacted when I thought we had bed bugs in our home (the Swiss Alps could be found in my home in the form of DE), I can understand the desperation that people feel in doing whatever they can think of to get rid of the bugs.

    Education BEFORE an introduction is very important. So, thank you David, for the education aspect you bring to this site.

  7. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 8:51:41
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    Hi endless_nightmare,

    Yes but if the bedbug does not cross the tape where does it go to hang out and how does that impact the treatment?

    Given that we have already had reports from people that bedbugs will adapt and find a place to survive and may spread out either in the room or to other rooms.

    Just as we all know acknowledge that foggers and total release aerosol products have no role to play in bedbug control I think with time the world will also see tape in the same way.

    Overt he years I have tried all sorts of tape and all sorts of configurations to get it to work but have always had results which required more treatment time to resolve than they would have if we had not used the tape to start of with.

    Paul,

    You have posted pretty much what I expected, if I said the sky was blue would you still feel the need to argue?

    [uncivil remarks deleted by admin]

    David

  8. P Bello

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 10:01:55
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    Clearly the comment above "crosses the line" . . .

    In moderate and low cost housing we see countless bed bugs caught on duct tape, packing tape and double sided carpet tape which is placed by the residents there, likely out of desperation. Next time I'll be sure to take some photos to post.

    We also see these folks wrap their mattresses and box springs in plastic tarps, apply grease to their bed legs, use unlabeled materials to kill bed bugs and do other things in an effort to attain some level of relief from their bed bug infestations.

    However, this does not mean that these are recommended methodologies but, video or not, to assert that tape will not catch any bed bugs is simply false. When falsehoods and misleading information is being posted, it shall garner rebuttal.

    The truth is that some bed bugs do, in fact, get caught on such surfaces and there are numerous photos which support and illustrate this.

    Simply stated:

    Will some bed bugs avoid the sticky surface? Yes.

    Will some get caught on the sticky surface? Yes.

    Can a suitable sticky surface such as tape be used as a travel barrier in a similar fashion as climb up devices are used? Yes.

    Is this a good long term strategy/methodology? Not really, as such surfaces may eventually become passable due to dust and debris accumulation.

    Are product development projects underway regarding this and related concepts? Yes.

    Is the sky blue? Actually, it depends: day or night?

    It is what it is ! pjb

  9. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 10:34:12
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    P Bello - 19 minutes ago  » 
    In moderate and low cost housing we see countless bed bugs caught on duct tape, packing tape and double sided carpet tape which is placed by the residents there, likely out of desperation. Next time I'll be sure to take some photos to post.

    So, by asking my questions, I'm not trying to be argumentative in any way.....I just simply have questions.

    Would the people who use the tape have been better off not having used it in the first place? By that I mean, did they cause dispersal of bed bugs to other areas of the room because of the use of the tape...making it even harder to remedy the situation? And if they are used as a travel barrier, what happens to the bed bugs not caught on the sticky tape? Honestly, I am just trying to better understand.

    And I have to say it breaks my heart to think of those who are in low income housing fighting bed bugs. Mainly because while it sucks for anyone to have bed bugs.....it sucks all the more when those who can't afford to fight them, or the elderly, or the mentally challenged, or children are involved. I wonder if there are opportunities for people to volunteer their time to help with certain situations such as these mentioned?

  10. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 11:46:17
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    P Bello - 1 hour ago  » 
    Clearly the comment above "crosses the line" . . .

    To say pots and kettles may seem childish but in this case its most likley the only polite words you would get out of my mouth on the subject.

    I appreciate and apologies to anyone who has to come through and edit this later but given the tone of some of your posts in the last 24 hours if you did not expect a response you had not thought through your actions as thoroughly as you may now be wishing you had.

    If you are going to be rude you should expect it reflected back at some stage.

    The solution would appear to be a tad less condescending and rude to others that do not agree with you.

    David

  11. P Bello

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 12:09:47
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    I'm content with staying "on topic".

    The math is simple:

    Posting of inaccurate and overly broad assertions will be met with suitable rebuttals.

    It is what it is and always will be ! pjb

  12. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 14:56:51
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    Another thread that proves nothing and is funny for those in the know.

    4 years ago I walked into an apartment that had glue boards, aka monitors, all over the place. I counted 173 bed bugs on one single glue board.

    Bottom line - tape and other glue/trap devices can work. As I've said a million times, nothing is 100% with bed bugs.

    Regards,
    John Furman
    Boot A Pest, Inc.
    New York's "Best Bed Bug Exterminator" NY Magazine

  13. P Bello

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 15:10:17
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    Above John KQ posted:

    " . . . I walked into an apartment that had glue boards, aka monitors, all over the place. I counted 173 bed bugs on one single glue board. "

    John,

    The HELL you say ???

    Bed bugs were caught on a sticky trap ?

    How could that possibly be ?

    I saw a posted video that "proved" that bed bugs will avoid such sticky traps.

    Perhaps those were just stupid bed bugs?

    If so, we can only conclude that bed bugs in England must be smarter than the bed bugs in the US, right?

    Surely you've never ever seen any bed bugs trapped on such sticky surfaces ever again, right ?

    Please explain because inquiring minds want to know !

    pjb

  14. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 15:59:32
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    [+] Embed the videoGet the Video Plugins

    When you walk into places like this you will find bugs in spider webs, glue boards, sticky tape, kitchens, bathrooms, soap dishes, blah blah blah ....

    Please note the video is not for the squeamish - if anyone wants to link it directly with code, be my guest.

    Regards,
    John Furman
    Boot A Pest, Inc.
    New York's "Best Bed Bug Exterminator" NY Magazine

  15. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 16:22:30
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    [+] Embed the videoGet the Video Plugins

    KillerQueen,

    Is this what you meant by linking it directly with code? If not, I'm sorry. Just trying to help.

    Anyway, I'm completely and utterly confused at this point. Honestly, I thought that glue traps wouldn't work with bed bugs due to the release of alarm pheromones and their ability to "sense" the stickiness of the traps. Does it depend on the level of infestation? Or, does that not even matter? Would glue traps be a useful tool no matter the level of infestation?

    And, sorry to all the pros. I know I've asked a lot of questions on this thread, but I'm really just trying to understand all of this information. Right now, I just don't know what to think.....

  16. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 16:43:41
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    If you're going to rely on glue boards or tape alone to figure out if you have a bed bug infestation - no, good luck with that. I'm saying you can use these items as an aid to help monitor or catch some bugs.

    I'm not saying I use glue traps or tape to monitor - I'm not saying I recommend them to solve bed bug problems.

    What I'm saying is ... Nothing is 100% when you use something to catch bugs. Can you catch bugs, yes.

    The more bugs in an infestation - the greater the chances of catching bugs.

    If im in to treat a place that is using such devises, I'm not worried about anything but killing all the bugs on day one. And I usually do based on the commitment to solve the problem that first day. Big or small - the problem will be solved in two treatments. Nothing I've ever seen had made my job excessively more difficult. And that includes glue or tape.

    Regards,
    John Furman
    Boot A Pest, Inc.
    New York's "Best Bed Bug Exterminator" NY Magazine

  17. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 17:06:07
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    KillerQueen,

    Ok, I get what you are saying. In my mind, I had completely dismissed the use of anything "sticky"....whether is be tape, boards, glue traps.

    I wouldn't rely on anything alone when it comes to bed bugs. I've learned on here that it takes many tools to fight them.

    Sometimes, it's just hard to know what to think when you and Paul are saying one thing, and David is saying another thing. I don't say that with any kind of disrespect, honestly I don't. It's just hard sometimes to makes sense of it all.

    For instance, I have both encasements AND passive monitors on my beds. Why? Because you and Paul say to use encasements and David says to use passive monitors. I figure, either way, I'm covered. And, good gracious, I'm not trying to open Pandora's box on that, it's just that I didn't know which way to go......so, I did both. And, with a husband who travels almost on a weekly basis, I figured it was in my best interest to cover all my bases when it comes to monitoring.

    And since I can't afford to fly you, or David, or anyone else in to fight bed bugs should I get them in my home, I try to learn and understand all I can on here so that I can be better prepared should I have to hire a PCO to treat my home, or if I decide to go the DIY way.

    So, thank you for your help! It is truly much appreciated.

  18. P Bello

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 17:10:06
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    Hmmm . . .

    Think about this:

    You go to the beach and walk knee high into the ocean with a large bucket.

    You fill the five gallon bucket and lift it from the waves.

    As you do this, do you actually see the ocean level go down?

    Of course you didn't, it's the friggin ocean and you've only removed an insignificant amount of water from it.

    Now, let's relate this to traps, bed bugs and bed bug remediation work:

    > The simple fact remains that we need and may benefit from detection of the presence of bed bugs.

    > The problem we have is that we tend to want "simple answers" or we extrapolate a small sample across the entire population or every circumstance. Sure, this makes things easier to understand and convenient for us but doing so may be incorrect because we make and accept certain assumptions and build our case upon a weak foundation.

    > Both Lou and I have video of bed bugs climbing up glass containers but this does not mean that every bed bug can do this.

    > The questions posed above are still being studied and we are learning more each day.

    > Consider this; if the alarm pheromone were a significant factor:
    * Are bed bugs the only critters that utilize these pheromones?
    * Would a spider web be able to capture more than one critter?
    * Would we find more than one critter in any sticky trap ever?
    * Would pitfall traps even have a chance of working?

    > I've yet to write this up but Rick Cooper's most recent bed bug research update included some interesting observations which may be contrary to what has been published before:
    * Bed bugs have been found crawling the hallways.
    * Bed bugs have been found trapped in pitfall traps placed "at random" and away from beds or couches.
    * Bed bugs released in designated areas of actual apartments are subsequently found in many remote areas away from the original area however, some are still found near the original harborage.
    * And other interesting stuff . . .

    > Those who are "students of the game" realize that the more we know, the more we realize that we don't know. As such, it's silly for any one of us to represent that we know all the answers when many of us don't even know what all the questions are yet.

    > Are sticky traps an effective tool?
    This may be the most pertinent question. Sure, we can show a video where some bed bugs display avoidance behavior however, to represent that this behavior is universal and consistent across the entire global population of bed bugs is incorrect as if this were so, we'd never see any bed bugs caught in sticky traps, tape, spider webs, etc. Yet, this is what we see in the field.

    The answer also depends on how we define "effective" as well. If we are simply looking to know if bed bugs are present in our room or home then the capture of just one, perhaps dumbass, bed bug may be viewed as a success. However, if we're looking to eliminate the entire population of our infestation from our home using just sticky traps then assuredly we've set the bar way to high and we will not be successful.

    > We need to temper our assertions with logic, reasonableness and, dare I say it, the truth. And, this is likely best done by providing full explanation in terms that regular people can easily understand rather than go off using technical mumbo-jumbo.

    > So, you filled your five gallon bucket and at 8.35 lbs per gallon your bucket is pretty heavy as you stand there not seeing the ocean level go down, right? And those folks who line their apartment rooms with duct tape, packing tape and/or double sided carpet tape seem to catch a lot of bed bugs but are they any closer to solving their bed bug infestation? They're probably about as close to doing so as you are in draining the Atlantic. But, talk to any of them and they will tell you that "at least they are doing some good because all of the ones they caught are not going to bite them tonight. However, to contend that they won't catch any is just plain wrong.

  19. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 17:27:10
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    P Bello - 12 minutes ago  » 
    Those who are "students of the game" realize that the more we know, the more we realize that we don't know. As such, it's silly for any one of us to represent that we know all the answers when many of us don't even know what all the questions are yet.

    Paul,

    The quote above is probably the one thing today that I've read that makes complete sense to me!!

    And, yes, I get what you are saying as well.....thank you for your explanation.

    Now, if only I were really at the beach to put your "bucket theory" to the test....

  20. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 17:35:14
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    PS. Yes, embedding the video. Thanks!

  21. endless_nightmare

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    Tue Apr 8 2014 19:29:01
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    It's nice to have you back Killer Queen, seems like a long time since you posted

    I guess us non-expert can only see that there are different point of views and methods used by the pros.

    I'm a little bit like (actually a lot like) Butterfly when it comes to confusion, we do see a proof that bugs avoid the glue, but then we also have your reports on the field of you guys finding them on glue boards on the job.

    Could it be that they'll go on the glue boards when they have no choice?

    Also let's say I was sleeping right next to the contraption in David's video, wouldn't at some point the starving bug decide to risk it and cross in order to get a meal?

    Sorry if this comes across as naïve, just trying to figure this out as a non-pro

    Butterfly:

    I wonder if there are opportunities for people to volunteer their time to help with certain situations such as these mentioned?

    In Canada some social services are available for situations like that, since I'm disabled when I had my infestation they came and helped me

    When it's people that rent and cannot afford a PCO, the landlord pays for them.

    For low income housing the bill for the PCO is paid by the government. I'm now living in a semi-low income set up, where my rent is sort of "discounted", I have to say it's well taken care of, but things take a while to get done sometimes

  22. Suzanne

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 20:27:51
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    Butterfly,

    At times I was a bit confused when there were debates, however I took in everything and then did what made the most sense to me. And I asked a lot of clarifying questions. Ask them how often I asked, they'll tell ya! There is value in everyone's opinions.

    I would also think that the tape/traps effectiveness would have to do with the level of infestation (?). And honestly bugs have brains the size of ...i don't know what, but they can't be very big, right? Maybe they're not clever enough to avoid tape 100% of the time - and then there's one less to bite you.

    Killer Queen and others say their #1 step is to vacuum up any bugs, however my PCO never did that - he inspected, confirmed and treated, but it makes sense - the more you catch, capture, stick, glue or suck up the less that have to be killed. I was concerned with dispersement and because of that I didn't isolate the couch and continued to sleep on it while we were treated. This is not what KQ or others recommend, but to me it made the most sense - as long as a meal was there then they wouldn't need to wander off (like to my kids rooms) to find a meal. It made sense to me at the time (but sure made going to sleep really hard). lol

    So, I say ask away and then ask some more.

    Suzanne

  23. Daylight

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Apr 8 2014 21:26:01
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    Hi,

    This is an interesting thread. Buttery, thanks for asking some good questions and sharing your good thoughts that make perfect sense.
    Butterfly wrote:

    If I were to bring home bed bugs (knocking on wood for that to NEVER happen), I would want them all to come join me on my bed as opposed to spreading around different areas. To me, if just seems like if the bugs are all in one place (bed), it would be easier to treat than if they were dispersed to the other furniture in the room.

    I believe that would be the best scenario for capturing and annihilating the bugs. You would not have to search all over for their hide out.

    Butterfly also wrote:

    Would the people who use the tape have been better off not having used it in the first place? By that I mean, did they cause dispersal of bed bugs to other areas of the room because of the use of the tape...making it even harder to remedy the situation? And if they are used as a travel barrier, what happens to the bed bugs not caught on the sticky tape? Honestly, I am just trying to better understand.

    I wonder too if this is going to cause more dispersal of the bugs. Of course, as soon as the tape or glue collects enough dirt and debris, it won't be as much of a barrier to the bugs, so its effectiveness as a blockade is probably limited.

    Butterfly wrote:

    For instance, I have both encasements AND passive monitors on my beds. Why? Because you and Paul say to use encasements and David says to use passive monitors. I figure, either way, I'm covered. And, good gracious, I'm not trying to open Pandora's box on that, it's just that I didn't know which way to go......so, I did both. And, with a husband who travels almost on a weekly basis, I figured it was in my best interest to cover all my bases when it comes to monitoring

    This makes the most sense to me, too, Butterfly. You are Protecting the bed. There's a good FAQ on it in the forum. You have the mattress and springs encased to protect them from becoming hidden harborages (bugs can still get on them, just not in them) and you're giving them a place to hide in the passive monitor. The monitor is reasonably priced and makes checking easy. And it does seem like a combination of different approaches, but you're not using climb ups or any other trap. So, you're not isolating the bed. You can still draw them to you and hopefully contain them where you can render them lifeless.

    And like Suzanne wrote:

    So, I say ask away and then ask some more.

    It's always good to ask questions. There's usually always someone else wondering the same things.

  24. P Bello

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    Wed Apr 9 2014 2:07:03
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    Sorry but it seems I inadvertently missed some questions posted above and will try to get to them.

    What may be interesting in the near future is the publication of some new research results regarding traps, monitors and related information so, stay tuned for that kids.

    In the field we've seen tape line the perimeter of bed rooms as well as placed around beds in a kinda-sorta GWOC (Great Wall of China) defensive strategy. However, since the bed bugs could easily crawl under the tape to get to the bed, the effectiveness of the GWOC was a tad suspect even though there were some bed bugs stuck on the tape.

    Dispersal is always an interesting topic because it is misunderstood, over used and overstated.

    Firstly, it is common knowledge that dead bed bugs can't crawl or react to external stimuli. As such, dead bed bugs cannot disperse.

    So, if we have KQ and his team come in and kill all our bed bugs on day one, install encasements and climb up blockers is dispersal even a factor? No, it's not.

    And, in this case do we need any monitors to tell us if we have bed bugs present?
    Actually, the climbup blockers are good monitors. This is so because there is nothing more attractive to bed bugs then humans. As such, these devices should be able to catch some bed bugs if they are there and try to get at you as you sleep.

    Now, suppose we coat the bed legs with double sided tape. Will this cause bed bugs to disperse? And, if so, what portion of the populations will disperse; 10%, 42%, 50%, 77%, 100% ?

    The truth is that we do not know the answer to this and various persons may opine on this issue but to thus far we have not yet seen a valid published study under actual field conditions and we likely never will. Hmmm, really, why not ?

    This is so because we would need:
    > a totally wild established population to be present
    > to know the exact number of individual bed bugs present in the population
    > a characterization of the population dynamics
    > the ability to monitor, observe and track the entire population for the duration of the study
    > the ability to run such trials a significant number of times such that our resulting data is replicable

    Currently what we've seen posted on these threads is what researchers describe as "anecdotal information". It is NOT nor can it take the place of actual scientific data derived from a well planned trial protocol. It is merely an "interesting story".

    We need to recognize that bed bugs are insects and primarily act on instinct. Questing bed bugs are driven to seek their hosts by forces they cannot overcome. We know that the two main factors are body temperature and CO2. There is some data which supports that kairomones play a role as attractants but they are considered secondary attractants.

    Overall, we know that hungry bed bugs will be strongly attracted to a person sleeping in the room. They just can't help themselves which is why the climb up monitor traps have an advantage over other type traps when used properly.

    None of this should be confusing or seem complicated to the reader.

    However, there may be those of you who still have questions so, ask away if so.

    pjb

  25. ITortureBugs4Revenge

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Apr 9 2014 3:04:54
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    Whatever way one chooses to tackle a bug issue on his/her own is like going fishing: the tape and glue board method in my opinion is like fishing with a hook and line...sometimes the fish bite and you catch some, and other days you come home with nothing, whereas regular vigilant inspections of the bed and other furniture bugs are likely to reside in followed by the use of contact killing sprays on any bugs found is more like fishing with a trawl net...you will catch the fish even if they don't want to bite, and when your inspections start coming up with fewer and fewer finds it means you have "over-fished" the waters (ie, your infestation is coming under control). To me it seems like all the tape method would accomplish is catching a bug here and there but nowhere near the quantity required to keep the population in check, as for every 1 bug "hooked" on the tape there are probably 10 more safely tucked away in the bed making babies.

  26. P Bello

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Apr 9 2014 8:02:34
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    Dear torture,

    Shhhhhhhhhh ! ! !

    Here's the "secret" to eliminating bed bugs:

    All you need to do is inspect and suitably treat all the places where the bed bugs and eggs are.

    Finito !

    Simply stated but at times difficult to accomplish.

    It ain't rocket science either.

    Have a great day ! pjb

  27. Butterfly1972

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    Wed Apr 9 2014 9:05:22
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    Endless, Suzanne, and Daylight,

    You ladies ROCK....honestly, you do!! And I'm so glad that I'm not alone with my questions. Sometimes, when I go to post a question (or two, or more....a lot more ), I often fear being the kid in the class wearing the pointy hat.....if you know what I mean...lol.

    Torture,

    I LOVED your analysis. As an avid fisher-woman and hunter, I totally "got" what you were saying and completely appreciated you connecting it to fishing!!

    Kind of like deer hunting.... There are a lot of "tools" to use to attract the deer to my location. Some work better....some not so much. And what works for one deer may not work for another deer. I have "tools" that will work for me every single time. And I have other tools that may work, but not as well....or every single time. Does that EVEN make sense???? I didn't sleep much last night and watched a lot of the Pursuit Channel.....

    Paul,

    Ok, back on topic.... So, my take home on the dispersal is..... That dispersal is a bit hyped? That at the end of the day, the bed bugs will come seeking a meal and not be so dispersed after all? And, please, correct me if I'm wrong.

    So, let's say that I have bed bugs in my dresser, night stands, closet area, and on my bed (I'm knocking on A LOT of wood in this thread....). And, say, I vacuum all these areas on day one, along with other treatments....like steam, spray, and dust, but somehow missed quite a few bugs(cut me some slack, I'm not KQ after all ).

    Am I right in my thinking that those bed bugs who are "dispersed" or still in my dresser, night stands, and closet will come out seeking a meal and end up on my bed?

    And will they at that point more than likely stay on my bed.....and not go back to their hiding spots on my other furniture?

    I don't have ClimbUps on my bed, but I do see the point in having them now.

    And I have to say.... The whole "KQ and his team come in and kill all our bed bugs on one day" is an attention grabber for sure!!!

  28. bed-bugscouk

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    Wed Apr 9 2014 13:08:49
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    Hi,

    I know I have posted this analogy before but I think sometimes things do need to be repeated:

    If you want to see bird in your garden its often best to use a feeder and a bird box. Now despite the fact that birds have literally endless combinations of where they can and could build a nest in the garden they often choose to use the bird boxes that are provided.

    An understanding of biology means that this information is used and applies the world over in peoples homes and gardens as well as zoos and public spaces.

    Now, if you were to create the equivalent of a bird box for bedbugs that they would occupy and in doing so would leave signs that they are doing so then such a tool could have applications int he areas of detecting bedbugs. With field development and looking at procedures you could develop such a technology in a fashion whereby the device is removed as part of the treatment (increasingly its efficiency), used as a post treatment QC or QA (for those willing to back up the quality of their work with systems rather than just words) or as a way to preventing future ingress (maybe as part of a professional on-going supportive professional relationship).

    Now understandably not everyone will be able to grasp this simple concept and others may in fact have vested interests of reasons of a personal or professional nature which means their interests take them in a different direction but given that its been around since 2009 we have something of a wealth of people who have been using this approach and will and have testified to the deliverance of the promises we have made to them.

    However we can do little to help everyone and so people will just have to accept the fact that if they cant get something to work that others do it may have more to do with their own approach to situations than they might be used to admitting.

    It did take some of my staff a while to realise that working in a more progressive way meant that they had happier, more contented customers by virtue of the fact that they moved away from an older treat to eradicate approach and could focus on delivering a solution that people want.

    Sadly some of the fundamental differences between the approaches you see spoken about on the forum come down to the fact that we do not feel comfortable charging people for products that add not real value to the work being done. It is a very minimalist yet honest way of working but surely if I can do my job correctly there is no need to encase the mattress, its kind of an admission of failure or at least planning to fail in my mind and not one that sits comfortably. The same goes with excessive product use. If you know what you are doing you don't need to use as much because you have already done what your client has requested you do, namely kill the bedbugs.

    I appreciate it can see confusing at times but increasingly professionals are moving away from the protocols and products approach although I did see an alarming document a few weeks ago where the thought leaders were promising a "new and exciting revenue stream for 2014" although frankly too much profiteering leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    Its a shame the thread has derailed somewhat, in other places its been picked up and has had a lot of comments from others agreeing that it illustrates the limited value in sticky type devices.

    David

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  29. P Bello

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    Wed Apr 9 2014 19:17:35
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    Yikes !

    > If some bed bugs are missed that harbor away from the beds then eventually these bugs will be attracted to the persons where the people are resting or sleeping. This means they will make there way to the sofa, EZ chair or bed to feed.

    > "Bird boxes": Equating the behavior of higher and much more sophisticated life forms such as birds to insects is a stretch at best. However, just for fun, let's go with this for purposes of this discussion. Suppose our bed bugs now act as birds, despite knowing that they don't. (One wonders which bird species do they in fact act like? Do they fly south for the winter? Are they nectar feeders or insect feeders? Are they flightless birds like penguins?)

    So, we place four bird houses (That's what we call them here in the US, by the way, bird houses. Not bird boxes.) in our backyard near enough to our bird feeder such that at least some birds will see them and maybe even use them. An important difference between birds and bed bugs is that birds actually "build a nest" whereas bed bugs don't build anything, they merely harbor in cracks and crevices they encounter. There is also much more to birds and nest site selection, nest building, food preference, etc. but, let's not dwell on that stuff and "go with this" bird thing anyway here.

    Over time we will find that birds do decide to utilize our four bird houses. We now have four families of say English Sparrows. Each day we see the mated pair of E/Sparrows as they "feather their nest, feed at our feeder, lay eggs and tend their eggs in hopes of rearing their soon to be hatchlings.

    In this analogy I'm sure we ALL get it: the bird feeder is the person, the bird houses are the passive monitors, the birds are the bed bugs and the yard is the bed and/or bedroom.

    Oooh, this is such fun, isn't it kids !

    However, herein lies some problems and variances that warrant discussion and elucidation. Stay tuned.

    > There are many birds that visit our feeder each day which nest in many locations in our yard. Some nest in the oak trees, some in the evergreens, some in the maple trees, some in the ilex, some on the neighbor's chimney and still others in locations we don't even know.

    > What is proposed is that we can control or kill the Sparrows/bed bugs by eliminating them simply by killing them as they rest in the bird houses. (Kwik, somebody call PETA !) However, if we do that, we will have ONLY eliminated four nests of these Sparrows. But what of all the other birds present and nesting elsewhere in the yard?

    > Birds nest at certain times of the year and once their nests are built they pretty much stay in their own nest. NOT every species behaves the same mind you, we're just generalizing here in this "fantasy world" for now. However, we are led to believe that birds who have set up or established their own "housekeeping" will abandon those nest sites, or harborages, to move into the empty bird houses. How likely is this to happen ? With birds not so much. With bed bugs, possibly.

    > Bird Houses: One thing about bird houses to consider is size, configuration and cost. My Dad taught us how to build bird houses and bird feeders and we built a lot of them. We mostly used scrap wood. Of course, Dad's bird houses always looked a lot better and fancier than ours did. In fact, I'm looking at one right now which has four roofs, three reverse gables and can house four bird families. It's painted white and the four roofs are red. It really does look very nice but the bird sh#t on the roof is a tad distracting.

    Our bird houses looked like crap compared to Dad's but birds moved into them anyway. I'm not sure if the birds in the fancy looking houses rebuffed those in the crappy looking ones or not as I sense no feathery snobbery as the birds visit our three well stocked feeders. However, it is interesting to note that the bird houses are occupied no matter how they look as long as certain bird housing requirements are met: size, location, etc.

    Visit a retail shop and you'll find that a bird house similar to Dad's costs about $49.95 each but the basic bird houses which are not well decorated or adorned are less than ten bucks. A hollowed gourd, which is a popular bird house here in Georgia and the Southeastern US, can be had for under five dollars each and are quite effective and serviceable bird houses.

    Oops, let's get back to bed bugs now. For this analogy to come full circle, we need a bird house for our bed bugs right? Right.

    Passive monitors are supposed to be the bird houses in our analogy. We are to place them near our feeder (our bed where people sleep) in order to have the birds (i.e. bed bugs) move into them such that we can subsequently kill/eliminate them as they rest in the bird house.

    The passives we see on the market are akin to the fancy bird houses. They cost about $19.95 each. However, the not so fancy looking bird houses are inexpensive, in fact, they were mostly made from scrap wood and were essentially free but for the effort needed to build them.

    So, one wonders how can we make such a bird house (i.e. bed bug harborage) ? The answer is rather simple actually. Corrugated paper, i.e. cardboard, may be used to construct a suitable bed bug harborage. In fact, such cardboard is also an excellent harborage for cockroaches and other insects too.

    So, if you simply must have the very best looking bird house in your bed bug back yard, go ahead and spend $19.95 each for them and place them on your bed.

    However, if you're mindful of your budget, you may wish to build your own from scrap cardboard which is essentially free.

    > Encasements: Hmm, we almost forgot this one here. Some individuals seem to totally disregard and dismiss the value and benefit of encasements in the world of bed bug control. That's too bad because the overwhelming majority of researchers and industry leaders agree that encasements do provide benefit in bed bug control.

    So, we may be wondering, where do encasements fit in our "fantasy world" analogy? Note that the originator of this analogy failed to include encasements however, I'm throwing them in as a bonus for all and, if you read on, you will see how they fit in quite nicely !

    Let's consider that the encasements are our lawnmower. Use of these encasements keeps the grass neatly trimmed and our lawn looking good. But our neighbor across the pond, as it were, note that we really do have a pond here, coincidently chooses to not have a lawnmower. Hmmm . . .

    So, over time our neighbor's grass grows and grows. It soon becomes knee high as spring progresses and soon after has grown high enough to obscure his view of the bird houses.

    Meanwhile, on our side of the pond, the lawn is trim, neat and tidy. We can see the birds and the bird houses easily. And, if a bird defecates, we can see that too all because of the use of our encasements (i.e. lawnmower). Additionally, if the grass is tall it provides countless hiding places for the birds (i.e. harborages for the bed bugs). In fact, there are so many potential nest sites/harborages that the birds/bed bugs may not need to use our bird houses at all.

    Yikes, we just spent $19.95 each for bird houses that no birds will ever use, what a waste.

    This concludes this afternoon's story of birds, bird houses, bird feeders, lawnmowers and our nicely appointed yard . . .

    pjb

  30. bed-bugscouk

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    Thu Apr 10 2014 11:03:01
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    Paul,

    While you are in the mood to express opinions could I ask you comment on the following image and the facts it contains:

    <iframe src="https://www.flickr.com/photos/bedbugsuk/13760526344/player/" width="500" height="375" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>

    The image is of a Passive+ Monitor which was used as a QC and adjunct to treatment of a case.

    Given you assertion of the fact that bedbugs can harbor in all manner of places in the room why may I ask do you think they have chosen to leave faecal traces specifically on the detection skirt of a device designed to illustrate the presence of bedbugs?

    I hope you appreciate that this along with the fact that we have been successfully doing this since 2009 might encourage you to actually test the approach and thus be able to provide data rather than speculate and offer opinion.

    While you are welcome to express an opinion it is not really that appropriate to position it as fact when it is clearly not.

    As for the cost of the product I am sure that anyone would agree that something that helps to confirm an infestation or that helps resolve an infestation is a small price if that product actually works.

    I will happily continue to post links to the images of the returned monitors along with images of any and all samples we find inside them once decontaminated. However I sincerely hope that this image alone enables you to realize the error that is made when you assume I have simply made a box out of cardboard.

    Regards,

    David

  31. P Bello

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    Thu Apr 10 2014 14:21:38
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    Rather than engage in yet another discussion that is essentially downward spiral of crap, I'll just ask some straight forward questions and we shall see if they are suitably answered and addressed rather than avoided and ignored as they have consistently been in the past:

    > Other than your own work, what published research exists from an independent US based University Department of Entomology lab which supports the use and efficacy of these monitor devices ?

    > What percentage of the bed bug population does this research indicate sufficiently frequents such devices as opposed to other harborage areas which are simultaneously available to them for such purposes at an infested location ?

    > Of what importance is the actual placement of such devices ?

    > Is it possible that bed bugs would harbor or hide beneath, or between, the device and the bed surface upon which it is placed rather than actually enter the device ?

    > Scenario 1: If there are no bed bugs in the bed room or on the bed which device would likely have the better chance for success at either capturing or detecting the presence of an newly introduced hungry bed bug which fed upon the sleeping person tonight? Please be concise yet thorough when answering this question.

    a) A passive monitor.

    or

    b) A climb-up blocker detection type monitor.

    > Scenario 2: If there are no bed bugs in the bed room or on the bed which device would likely have the better chance to prevent the sleeping person from being bitten tonight? Please be concise yet thorough when answering this question.

    a) A passive monitor.

    or

    b) A climb-up blocker detection type monitor.

    > Scenario 3: A two bedroom apartment in NY City in which a family of four reside, parents and two young children, is significantly infested such that multiple bites occur each night. These folks retain the services of one John Furman, aka KQ, a reputable bed bug professional, to remediate their bed bug infestation. As part of the initial service visit work, bed bug proof encasements are installed on all four of the beds present. Please explain the following:

    a) Would use in combination with encasements enhance the expected results of a passive monitor or hinder the results and why?

    > For the past many years the US industry has embraced the use of mattress and box spring encasements as a viable portion of a comprehensive bed bug control program. Proponents of encasements name the following benefits to their use. For each benefit listed below, list any reasons that such benefits are either not true or problematic:

    a) Protect the mattress and box spring by essentially sealing the bed bugs out and denying access.

    b) Seal missed bed bugs in if any such bed bugs or eggs were possibly missed during the treatment work.

    c) Cleanly cover an unsightly bed bug stained mattress or box spring.

    d) By covering the mattress and box spring with a well fitting smooth encasement surface, subsequent inspection and detection of new bed bug activity is easier than if no encasements are used.

    > Scenario 4: A one bedroom apartment in Philadelphia is infested with 1,000 bed bugs. What percentage of the wild bed bug population will:

    a. Be captured or not captured in a climb up interceptor in 48 hours and why?

    b. Be removed via passive monitor replacement in 48 hours and why?

    > Scenario 5: A one bedroom apartment in Boston is infested with 500 bed bugs. The resident of this apartment is a DIY-er type guy and decides that he's going to fashion his own bed bug monitor traps of various configuration. After one week, what percentage of the wild bed bug population will:

    a) Likely be captured in his dry ice type dog bowl trap if the dry ice is suitably replenished as needed ?

    b) Likely be captured or blocked from climbing his bed legs by double sided carpet tape neatly placed two inches above the floor level on each bed leg ?

    c) Likely be found harboring in corrugated paper, i.e. cardboard, strips of 3 inches by 12 inches placed near each bed leg ?

    > Please list exactly what is incorrect about Dr. Chang Lu Wang's climb up blocker interceptor published research ?

    > In recently published research noted US bed bug expert Rick Cooper, of bed bug central and Cooper Pest Solutions, states that bed bugs are captured in climb up device pit fall traps placed at various locations in an apartment, even those locations away from beds. How is this possible considering that your previous position has been that bed bugs will avoid such devices and not be captured ? What percentage of bed bugs will actually avoid these pitfalls and what percentage will be captured ? Why is this so and what independent laboratory published research supports this?

    I'm sure we all look forward to the responses to the above questions.

    pjb

  32. bed-bugscouk

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    Thu Apr 10 2014 14:48:52
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    Paul,

    If you don't wish to confirm that the image proves that you have expressed an opinion which contravenes the facts of the image you are free to do so.

    However I do wish you would cease with the fallacious arguments and would focus on presenting facts of situations rather than a thinly veiled rant that could equally and accurately be termed "the world according to Paul Bello".

    On this occasion and others which I am sure will come with time I will illustrate that bedbugs do routinely defecate on the target detection skirt despite the fact that "they have the rest of the room to do so in" and that is proof enough that this works.

    You would also serve you case better by focusing on reply to the facts presented rather than doing off on a rant about other technologies and other people. That is unless you are saying you can only accept facts told to you by others to the exclusion of the data which is clear as day and in front of your face. It may also help if you curbed the bullying and demeaning tones from your posts as they are also not serving your argument in the slightest.

    The issue of professional have disagreements has been brought up enough times that I would have hoped you would have seen the disruption that adopting an aggressive US centric and demeaning tone takes.

    David

  33. Nobugsonme

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    Thu Apr 10 2014 23:55:52
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    David,
    Please note the <iframe> tags won't work in the forums.
    Flickr provides both HTML and BBCode tags, and the BBCode ones will embed correctly. I could not find them on your image because embedding was restricted, but you probably can find them if you're logged in.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  34. bed-bugscouk

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    Fri Apr 11 2014 8:20:39
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    Hi,

    Yes the video is with the Passive+ because that is the version we are currently using in the field but I believe I have an old video somewhere that also shows the same effect with the "normal" version of the product. I might not be able to publish that video as it can confirm the location but I would be happy to try and arrange for you to watch it if you want to confirm the facts.

    At the end of the day the Passive+ was a development program which sought to enhance what we were already seeing in the "normal" version. In some settings it is more effective but not by a level that I would call statistically different. For example int he detection and confirmation of infestation where the device is installed prior to the introduction of bedbugs it offers no benefit.

    However it offers a great benefit when used in conjunction with treatment and in particular non chemical treatments which is why we use them as an adjunct to treatment.

    Had we not noticed the effects we would not have sought to enhance the product further.

    Interestingly I have had a significant level of feedback from other thought leaders in the field and 3 well respected individuals have indicated that they wish to use the footage in presentations on bedbugs.

    I am just sorry that I have not put up more images int he past but I can assure you I will make sure that as much as possible is documented and shared in future.

    With regards image embedding my FlickR seems to have changed and is not giving me the usual options at present. I will try and work out why again later.

    David

  35. Butterfly1972

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    Fri Apr 11 2014 9:04:19
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    Hi David,

    Thank you for further explaining. You may want to copy and paste this explanation over on the "Bed-bug curiosity and understanding questions?" thread as well. I believe that is the thread where Nobugs asked about the Passive+ and it's the thread with the actual video.

    Butterfly

    Hi Everyone,

    I have to say that video is always great for further explaining things or for driving home a point that is being made.

    I can only speak for myself, but I'm pretty sure it stands for a lot of the non pros out there...... I just want the truth. I want to know that the decisions that I make in protecting myself and my family are the "right" decisions.

    So, when videos are shown to prove a point or when studies are published to back up statements, that goes a long way in helping me to make a decision or to feel that I've already made a good decision.....or, to realize that I've made a bad decision and need to reevaluate and proceed in a different direction.

    It's very easy for anyone to say, "this works" or "that doesn't work". It's much more convincing when those statements are backed up and proven......if at all possible.

    I hope that makes sense and doesn't offend any of the pros. It's not meant to offend. Just my thoughts....that's all.

    And, I know I've said it before, but it's always worth saying. I do appreciated the time that all the pros put into this site.....very much.

    Do I wish some things were different in certain areas?......yes. But, I also understand that each one of the pros is successful in his area and feels very strongly concerning that success and how it is accomplished. And, I am thankful to each of them for sharing their ways to success with each of us.

  36. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Fri Apr 11 2014 9:59:55
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    Hi,

    For some reason on FlickR my sharing options are:

    • Facebook
    • Twitter
    • Tumblr
    • Email
    • Printrest

    Outside of that I have embedded i-frame or HTML or a link.

    The options are below:

    Link
    https://flic.kr/p/mXYi5d

    HTML

    Passive+ project slide1

    I Frame

    <iframe src="https://www.flickr.com/photos/bedbugsuk/13760526344/player/" width="640" height="480" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe>

    Hopefully one these will work and provide further confirmation of my statements.

    Today I am just back from a QA visit to a hotel where the Passive+ have collected more samples and 2 more people have seen it in action.

    David


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