Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Detection / Identification of bed bugs

do bed bugs actually go on ceilings and drop down on beds?

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  1. Bugsy18

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Thu Mar 9 2017 22:23:49
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    If a bed is isolated, is it possible for bed bugs to climb up the walls and to the ceilings to drop down onto the beds to feed?

    And if so, does this happen frequently?

  2. KillerQueen

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Thu Mar 9 2017 22:47:03
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    Not on purpose. They can drop off a ceiling but they lack the ability to problem solve and will not be planning the attack.

    Can they fall? - yes.

    Will they fall? - in most cases, no.

    Does an isolated bed cause this problem? Not in the thousands of cases I've seen.

  3. bed-bugscouk

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    Fri Mar 10 2017 6:28:24
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    Hi,

    The answer is yes they can, they might not always do so in all cases but in many the effect of isolating the bed is to also disperse any remaining bed bugs that can no longer get access to the food in the bed.

    Some of these can eventually walk up walls or onto ceilings and once they detect CO2 (it is after all a "hot air" which rises) and release their grip to fail down to food. This is "left over" behavior from when bed bugs lived in caves and were closer cousins to bat bags.

    There are even some older references which talk about observing bed bugs walk up walls getting higher and higher night after night when the bed is moved away from the walls.

    In our testing in 2007 we were able to illustrate that rooms which were treated using an isolation method took longer to resolve and took more treatments to resolve. Given that these are two key metrics which our customers tell us they want as low as possible we did not adopt the devices promoted by Changlu and Knight. Interestingly the rest of the world has followed suit with us and isolation is not a popular approach outside of the US and Canada.

    Last week I was approached by a company in Canada with a new design for this type of product, one that was tough enough to drive a car over. From a design perspective it was awesome, best in its class but after a few minutes the inventor also agreed that there are likely to be better uses for the design outside of bed bugs and we went on to have an amazing conversation and about mating pheromone disruption in moths. Part of his coming to this conclusion was the reality that with this approach first being patented in 1851 and bed bugs remaining an issue into the 1940's there is the stark reality that if this approach worked we would still have the devices around that were used at the time. I have been looking for an E B Lake interceptor for my collection for years and yes despite being cast of solid brass I cant seem to find any in a city which at one stage was 33% infested and supported the world first (as in first EVER) pest control firm who become the legendary bed bug specialists Tiffin & Son Est. 1650.

    As to what drives this behavior, so we could work out a percentage more information and observations are needed, however, the reality is that once we found out the impact we avoided this approach and see no additional value in on-going research of it.

    Hope that explains.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  4. loubugs

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Fri Mar 10 2017 13:25:18
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    "Some of these can eventually walk up walls or onto ceilings and once they detect CO2 (it is after all a "hot air" which rises) and release their grip to fail down to food. This is "left over" behavior from when bed bugs lived in caves and were closer cousins to bat bags."
    I believe CO2 is heavier and sinks. Body heat rises, but I think bed bugs sense heat from closer distances of less than a foot. I believe bed bugs lose footing on ceilings and fall off, but maybe not always. I've had them fall on my head while wearing a hooded Tyvek suit. I've seen them on walls and it appears that they "pop" off at times, forcefully pushing away from the vertical substrate. I believe David noted this behavior elsewhere on bedbugger. I don't know if this would be a "left over" behavior because if bugs popped off walls (and these wouldn't be as smooth as painted wall surfaces), they might miss their bat hosts on the way down and end up on the floor of the cave. They would climb up the walls and come into contact with roosting bats. I know by experience from visiting some bat caves in Trinidad. The fruit eating bat guano fills the floor up to a few feet in depth. I've worn a filter over my mouth and sat in the dry guano which moves about as you sink in due to the cockroach population living there. Sometimes there are young bats that lost their grip on their mothers and become additional protein for the cockroaches. There are also some true bugs (lygaeids) that feed on the seeds from the digested fruit. The bed bugs are on the walls where the bats stay. Adult cockroaches and lygaeids also can be found on the cave walls. Wouldn't that be a nice interactive exhibit to visit in a theme park! The one that wouldn't be, is a vampire bat cave where the feces line the floor and becomes very slippery. Yes, blood. No, didn't sit there; didn't slip there.

    Professional entomologist/arachnologist. I consult on all matters dealing with insects and arachnids, including those of natural history and biology to pest management and forensic entomology investigations.
  5. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Fri Mar 10 2017 13:42:40
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    Hi Lou,

    Sorry, I forgot to check that, its been one of those days.

    The thermal from someone breathing out is detectable in a room with no forced air flow. This is what I feel is detected in the ceiling "drop" behavior. I will also try and put together some notes about discussion I had with Mike Siva-Jothy after one of his bat bug hunting missions.

    David

  6. KillerQueen

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Fri Mar 10 2017 20:31:16
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    NO

  7. BuggedbyNight

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    Fri Mar 10 2017 22:54:14
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    I just installed interceptors on a brand new bed frame and mattress from the start. It's been two days and I'm still getting welts. Might be delayed, or at least I'm hoping so. Nothing in the interceptors yet or bedframe so if it continues. It'll have to be because they're dropping down.

  8. Ombugsman

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    Fri Mar 10 2017 23:34:31
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    I just installed interceptors on a brand new bed frame and mattress from the start. It's been two days and I'm still getting welts. Might be delayed, or at least I'm hoping so. Nothing in the interceptors yet or bedframe so if it continues. It'll have to be because they're dropping down.

    Let's say they're crawling to the ceiling and dropping and then biting you. Where do they go after they've bitten you? The new mattress should have no tears and be easy to inspect. You bought a new frame which you're able to inspect. The interceptors would prevent them from exiting the bed as well as entering it. There would be no reason for the bugs to jump off the bed; they'd harbor in the mattress or frame or David's monitor.

  9. bedbugsbugme

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    Sat Mar 11 2017 0:17:05
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    Someone needs to get this behaviour on camera to end this debate once and for all. I do believe they are "smart enough" to climb the wall and drop down from the ceiling. They can avoid traps after all. They "test step" onto sticky tape to see if they can cross it without getting stuck (most of the time). Now if that doesn't signify some sort of intelligence then I don't know what does.

    I'm not an expert. Just sharing what I learned from my experience.
  10. KillerQueen

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    Sat Mar 11 2017 3:11:43
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    bedbugsbugme - 2 hours ago  » 
    Someone needs to get this behaviour on camera to end this debate once and for all. I do believe they are "smart enough" to climb the wall and drop down from the ceiling. They can avoid traps after all. They "test step" onto sticky tape to see if they can cross it without getting stuck (most of the time). Now if that doesn't signify some sort of intelligence then I don't know what does.

    When you get all your info from one person outside of the US who has a vested interest and an agenda, you lack the true knowledge of your research. This site has been poisoned by this type of behavior for years.

    Lou, (possibly the best and highest regarded entomologist in the US) who commented above, said they lack the ability to problem solve in another thread about a week ago. Other entomologist will tell you the same thing. The problem is all these type of questions and answers get bogged down by one individual who has more time on their hands then 12 entomologists combined. So its pointless to argue with someone who has motives and can't recognize the truth. They will just spin and spin until you're so dizzy you have to move away from the subject.

    So I'll ask you, bedbugsbugme - Do these bugs look smarter than you? [img]BuggyBed by John Furman, on Flickr[/img] Thats a glue trap. Copy and past/download the picture and enlarge it to see exactly how many bugs are stuck on that glue trap. Then come back and tell me that everything you've read here is gospel, ok?

  11. KillerQueen

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    Sat Mar 11 2017 3:23:39
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    Here is another bed bug monitor showing fecal stains. [img]FullSizeRender by John Furman, on Flickr[/img]

  12. KillerQueen

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Sat Mar 11 2017 3:26:47
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    And heres a mattress encasement. AKA the worlds largest bed bug monitor. Can't believe the climb up monitors were failing here. All these bugs fall from the ceiling too?

    Click the picture to load the video

    [img]trim.7F394DB0-FD73-4539-83CE-7016C753E029 by John Furman, on Flickr[/img]

  13. BuggedbyNight

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Sat Mar 11 2017 5:13:14
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    Ombugsman - 5 hours ago  » 

    I just installed interceptors on a brand new bed frame and mattress from the start. It's been two days and I'm still getting welts. Might be delayed, or at least I'm hoping so. Nothing in the interceptors yet or bedframe so if it continues. It'll have to be because they're dropping down.

    Let's say they're crawling to the ceiling and dropping and then biting you. Where do they go after they've bitten you? The new mattress should have no tears and be easy to inspect. You bought a new frame which you're able to inspect. The interceptors would prevent them from exiting the bed as well as entering it. There would be no reason for the bugs to jump off the bed; they'd harbor in the mattress or frame or David's monitor.

    Unless, they'd just drop from the corner of the bed. Or middle of the bedframe. Or wherever they feel they'd like to hit the floor. Interceptors are clean. I'm not gonna cross out bedbugs dropping up side down as soon as they can once they feed. Only thing that makes sense right now. Otherwise they'd be in the interceptors. Or on frame, which I check and they're not.

  14. BuggedbyNight

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Sat Mar 11 2017 5:17:31
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    I honestly wish I could have someone like KQ come to NYC or Lou and put this all to rest. Cause honestly according to this website, none of what is happening to me makes sense.

  15. bedbugsbugme

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    Sat Mar 11 2017 5:19:03
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    I actually go by my own experiences not by what is written here. I had several glue traps, supposedly the best kind around and NONE caught any bugs. I was still being bitten. I had home made climb ups on my bed. Still getting bitten and actually caught one crawling towards me. How did it get on my bed hm? I had an inch of oil inside the dishes where my bed legs were in. Which were perfectly centered. I had sprayed the cracks of the bedframe with alcohol and taped any holes. Bedding was clean and pillow was brand new. Bed was in the center of the room.

    As for your glue traps was the place heavily infested? I'd imagine with so many bugs crawling all over the place they'd venture over them sooner or later.

    Do I think bed bugs are the smartest things on earth? Nope. Though I do believe if they are hungry enough they will try what they know to get a meal.

    Lou also mentioned that bed bugs have been observed to POP off the wall. You obviously did not read all of what he had to say.

    I believe bed bugs lose footing on ceilings and fall off, but maybe not always. I've had them fall on my head while wearing a hooded Tyvek suit. I've seen them on walls and it appears that they "pop" off at times, forcefully pushing away from the vertical substrate.

    Like I said. If someone would get video evidence of this that would be great.

  16. FayeState

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    Sat Mar 11 2017 7:14:45
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    BuggedbyNight,
    I'm sorry for all you're going through as I am sure it is very stressful. What happened with the inspections of your neighbors? Could the bed bugs be coming from there? What happened with your sofa that the dog hit on? I hope it can be figured out real soon.

  17. bugged-cdn

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    Sat Mar 11 2017 7:18:35
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    Nothing in the interceptors yet or bedframe so if it continues. It'll have to be because they're dropping down.

    Unless a bug hitched a ride onto the isolated bed via an object (e.g., TV remote, magazine, electronics), someone's clothes, or on a person/pet.

  18. Ombugsman

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    Sat Mar 11 2017 9:56:33
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    You mentioned you caught a dying nymph. If you want to be thorough in considering all possibilities, I recommend you look at Table 2 in this study which shows that nymphs do escape from interceptors. Though not likely, it's possible a nymph could have fallen into the interceptor and then escaped to bite you. It might even be harboring under a mattress button and be difficult to detect (or it might have escaped out through the interceptor). Again not likely but much more likely IMO than an adult bug falling from ceiling and then falling off the bed after biting you. Of course, it's also possible a nymph could have fallen from ceiling and is hiding under a mattress button.

    I hope you're able to coax KQ or Lou to visit to do a thorough inspection or find a high-caliber PCO to inspect your place. In your unusual situation, I might also consider contacting the K9 company you used to ask if they would allow one of their bedbugs to feed on you one time to determine the nature and timing of your reaction to a bite to compare it to your most recent skin marks. It's possible you might have some kind of skin condition or allergy.

  19. loubugs

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    bedbugsbugme - 18 hours ago  » 
    Someone needs to get this behaviour on camera to end this debate once and for all. I do believe they are "smart enough" to climb the wall and drop down from the ceiling. They can avoid traps after all. They "test step" onto sticky tape to see if they can cross it without getting stuck (most of the time). Now if that doesn't signify some sort of intelligence then I don't know what does.

    It's a mistake to use the phrase "smart enough" because they are not smart. They don't think it's a good idea to look for a vertical surface and then decide it's good to crawl up and crawl over and jump off on the host below. They don't avoid sticky traps by testing the stickiness.
    Contact a sticky surface, pull away and keep crawling. Maybe it turns again and comes into contact with a sticky surface so it pulls away, a natural behavior if you get stuck. Do it again and again or if it crawls away from the stickiness and comes into contact with a vertical surface or obstruction crawl over or crawl around. Some smaller nymphs don't stick very well to stickiness and can crawl even more onto the total glue board. It might get stuck and never get off; it might not get stuck and get off. A natural behavior in bed bugs (and many other insects) is to crawl up, so this can be stems of vegetation, tree trunks, walls, etc.

  20. loubugs

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    BuggedbyNight - 13 hours ago  » 
    Unless, they'd just drop from the corner of the bed. Or middle of the bedframe. Or wherever they feel they'd like to hit the floor. Interceptors are clean. I'm not gonna cross out bedbugs dropping up side down as soon as they can once they feed. Only thing that makes sense right now. Otherwise they'd be in the interceptors. Or on frame, which I check and they're not.

    As KQ noted in pictures he posted, there are normal places where bed bugs harbor; some can get caught in glue boards, some get stuck in interceptor monitors, etc. They can be crawling into other places. Were bed bugs ever found?

  21. loubugs

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    bedbugsbugme - 13 hours ago  » 
    I actually go by my own experiences not by what is written here. I had several glue traps, supposedly the best kind around and NONE caught any bugs. I was still being bitten. I had home made climb ups on my bed. Still getting bitten and actually caught one crawling towards me. How did it get on my bed hm? I had an inch of oil inside the dishes where my bed legs were in. Which were perfectly centered. I had sprayed the cracks of the bedframe with alcohol and taped any holes. Bedding was clean and pillow was brand new. Bed was in the center of the room.
    As for your glue traps was the place heavily infested? I'd imagine with so many bugs crawling all over the place they'd venture over them sooner or later.
    Do I think bed bugs are the smartest things on earth? Nope. Though I do believe if they are hungry enough they will try what they know to get a meal.
    Lou also mentioned that bed bugs have been observed to POP off the wall. You obviously did not read all of what he had to say.

    I believe bed bugs lose footing on ceilings and fall off, but maybe not always. I've had them fall on my head while wearing a hooded Tyvek suit. I've seen them on walls and it appears that they "pop" off at times, forcefully pushing away from the vertical substrate.

    Like I said. If someone would get video evidence of this that would be great.

    Were bed bugs ever found at any time in your home? If you are going by only skin lesions, it doesn't mean that bed bugs are the only reason for skin reactions. The "pop off" behavior I've seen could be from them letting go or losing footing. Sometimes certain individual bugs have different behaviors compared to others in the jar or in the vial or in the real world. Calmly crawling vs quick bursts of "running", for example.

  22. bedbugsbugme

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    Yes there were confirmed bed bugs in my home. The PCO confirmed a light infestation. I was getting new bites every night when my bed was isolated. I also caught them trying to crawl towards me when I managed to stay awake. I can also feel them biting me. More than once I felt a faint stinging sensation that immediately itched and welted up (similar to how I react to mosquito bites). I pulled out my flashlight and caught the bugs just scurrying away full of blood. The bed frame I was sleeping on was a simple wooden frame that came apart easily with minimal screw holes and cracks. I took it apart more than once and found 1 bug in the area where the boards come together. It was a 1st instar veeeery teeny tiny. Didn't find any eggs nearby. Either way I took the frame apart (3 pieces) vacummed, steamed and sprayed the "joints" with 97% rubbing alcohol taped the screw holes and isolated it. The mattress (no box spring) was brand new. But I inspected it for rips and lifted every seam and used an LED mini light. Nothing. So I steamed that then sprayed alcohol and let dry. Then put an encasement on it. (This was before I knew about not using alcohol. It was suggested by a friend).

    But i guess smart isn't a good word to describe them. I guess they just follow thier instincts like you said.

  23. BuggedbyNight

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    loubugs - 7 hours ago  » 

    BuggedbyNight - 13 hours ago  » 
    Unless, they'd just drop from the corner of the bed. Or middle of the bedframe. Or wherever they feel they'd like to hit the floor. Interceptors are clean. I'm not gonna cross out bedbugs dropping up side down as soon as they can once they feed. Only thing that makes sense right now. Otherwise they'd be in the interceptors. Or on frame, which I check and they're not.

    As KQ noted in pictures he posted, there are normal places where bed bugs harbor; some can get caught in glue boards, some get stuck in interceptor monitors, etc. They can be crawling into other places. Were bed bugs ever found?

    Yes Lou, if you have time. Could you take a look at my most recent post? To save me all the time for rewriting everything. It's still on the first page, After years of no proof is the title.

  24. KillerQueen

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    BuggedbyNight - 9 minutes ago  » 

    loubugs - 7 hours ago  » 

    BuggedbyNight - 13 hours ago  » 
    Unless, they'd just drop from the corner of the bed. Or middle of the bedframe. Or wherever they feel they'd like to hit the floor. Interceptors are clean. I'm not gonna cross out bedbugs dropping up side down as soon as they can once they feed. Only thing that makes sense right now. Otherwise they'd be in the interceptors. Or on frame, which I check and they're not.

    As KQ noted in pictures he posted, there are normal places where bed bugs harbor; some can get caught in glue boards, some get stuck in interceptor monitors, etc. They can be crawling into other places. Were bed bugs ever found?

    Yes Lou, if you have time. Could you take a look at my most recent post? To save me all the time for rewriting everything. It's still on the first page, After years of no proof is the title.

    Theres nothing crazy about your problem.

    You've used "bites" as evidence or should I say - suspected bed bugs because of some type of skin reaction for over a year but never found anything to confirm bed bugs.

    Unfortunate bad luck - one eventually ended up in your place some 16 months later. You're "bites" are continuing despite actual evidence again. If I suspected bed bugs for as long as some .. I'll bet sooner or later something new is going to show up.

    You can beat this to death but the story will always be the same ... The new bug you found is a new problem ... It is not what was biting you for almost a year and a half. This is about math .. nothing more, nothing less.

    Unfortunately, I believe your skin problems will continue again despite your pest control efforts.

    Best of Luck however.

  25. KillerQueen

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    bedbugsbugme - 21 hours ago  » 
    I actually go by my own experiences not by what is written here. I had several glue traps, supposedly the best kind around and NONE caught any bugs. I was still being bitten. I had home made climb ups on my bed. Still getting bitten and actually caught one crawling towards me. How did it get on my bed hm? I had an inch of oil inside the dishes where my bed legs were in. Which were perfectly centered. I had sprayed the cracks of the bedframe with alcohol and taped any holes. Bedding was clean and pillow was brand new. Bed was in the center of the room.
    As for your glue traps was the place heavily infested? I'd imagine with so many bugs crawling all over the place they'd venture over them sooner or later.
    Do I think bed bugs are the smartest things on earth? Nope. Though I do believe if they are hungry enough they will try what they know to get a meal.
    Lou also mentioned that bed bugs have been observed to POP off the wall. You obviously did not read all of what he had to say.

    I believe bed bugs lose footing on ceilings and fall off, but maybe not always. I've had them fall on my head while wearing a hooded Tyvek suit. I've seen them on walls and it appears that they "pop" off at times, forcefully pushing away from the vertical substrate.

    Like I said. If someone would get video evidence of this that would be great.

    So, since what I've posted and what Lou stated - are you at least thinking or seeing a wider picture? IOW - Nothing is so cut and dry with bed bugs and they are not "smart enough" or able to problem solve and act like Navy Seals and "dive bomb" the bed if its isolated, agreed?

  26. BuggedbyNight

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    Thanks for the reply KQ. It's just a bit discouraging I guess. My logic right now was. Being the dog hit in the bed and couch. Treat the couch properly. Since it's easy to do so but get rid of bedframe with too many places to hide. It hasn't been two weeks so I'm hoping these are just delayed. These same bites I've been getting, are the same from when I first found bedbugs til now. I never had these kind of reactions until I've actually found out it was bedbugs in my room. They still continue now, not as bad. But they're the same. It doesn't make sense to my dermatologist or doctor why I'm getting these welts if they're not from bugs. That doesn't make any kind of sense. Only thing that does. Is that another apartment has them as wel and some make their way to my room somehow.

  27. BuggedbyNight

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    Something I always forget to mention. I've had two different women spend the night within the last three months. I noticed both woke with one or two red marks on thighs or arms. They just said it must be mosquitos. Sadly I kinda had to use them as bait without them knowing. Now I don't bring anyone home and it's kinda expensive lol.

  28. loubugs

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    BuggedbyNight - 11 minutes ago  » 
    Something I always forget to mention. I've had two different women spend the night within the last three months. I noticed both woke with one or two red marks on thighs or arms. They just said it must be mosquitos. Sadly I kinda had to use them as bait without them knowing. Now I don't bring anyone home and it's kinda expensive lol.

    Have you tried using a lint removal tape with handle? You can roll over surfaces and it lets you pull sample squares off. Try it over different times esp. when you suspect "bites" occur. Also can roll over your skin surface when you suspect bites. Did you ever notice any more skin reactions from staying on different sides of the bed?

  29. BuggedbyNight

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    What would I do with the lint roller afterwards?

    And no, I haven't. I used to think the bites were due to my old mattress being sprayed with pesticides so much. It was giving me the skin reaction or something. But even after new mattress they still persist. I haven't noticed any new ones yet but I'm sure they'll pop up.

  30. loubugs

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    Collect materials on the roll of tape, peel off as it comes in perforated squares, let me know and I'll look them over.

  31. barelyliving

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    Lou, when the bugs ' "pop" off at times, forcefully pushing away from the vertical substrate' do they just pop off and fall down or did they seem to propel themselves a few inches?

  32. bedbugsbugme

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    I'll just agree to disagree. No one has evidence that they either do or do not drop from ceilimgs to get to a meal. It could be accidental and it could be on purpose. Who knows. But all in all it DOES happen. Though we will never know why.

  33. FayeState

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Mon Mar 13 2017 0:51:07
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    Did any of these women end up bringing bed bugs back to their places?

    BuggedbyNight - 11 hours ago  » 
    Something I always forget to mention. I've had two different women spend the night within the last three months. I noticed both woke with one or two red marks on thighs or arms. They just said it must be mosquitos. Sadly I kinda had to use them as bait without them knowing. Now I don't bring anyone home and it's kinda expensive lol.

  34. loubugs

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Mon Mar 13 2017 6:19:09
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    barelyliving - 14 hours ago  » 
    Lou, when the bugs ' "pop" off at times, forcefully pushing away from the vertical substrate' do they just pop off and fall down or did they seem to propel themselves a few inches?

    I've seen them propel themselves off from the wall - it's not a few inches, but what appears to be less than one inch. It could be a normal behavior, it could be a result of moving quickly and losing footing, it's hard to say.

  35. KillerQueen

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Tue Mar 14 2017 19:29:25
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    bedbugsbugme - 2 days ago  » 
    I'll just agree to disagree. No one has evidence that they either do or do not drop from ceilimgs to get to a meal. It could be accidental and it could be on purpose. Who knows. But all in all it DOES happen. Though we will never know why.

    You can do or think whatever you like, thats your choice. But Like I said - when you don't get your info first hand you're simply repeating what others write here. Be it right or wrong.

    The proof is in the thousands of treatments I've done for people who have isolated and or not isolated their beds. It's real world proof having seen and done more treatments in every possible scenario you could ever imagine.

    Many here want to ignore whats already been determined so they can take a side in the debate. Their loss for the truth. Again - Lou, and other professionals have pointed out many facts (in multiple threads) that seem to get ignored or overlooked to support a ridiculous theory. Good luck with that!

  36. bedbugsbugme

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Wed Mar 15 2017 0:45:00
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    So you're utterly denying the fact that it has happened ever? Not even on accident?


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