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Disagreement between dogs and humans

(15 posts)
  1. movingout101

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    Posted 3 weeks ago
    Mon Oct 2 2017 21:16:27
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    Last Thursday, we had 2 dogs here. They independently identified BBs in the same spot on the bed. The same went for the suitcase my mom used.

    Today, we had another company for an opinion about treatment. He searched everything (much more aggressively and thoroughly than the first guy) and didn't find even a dot of poop. Unfortunately we threw the suitcase out already so he couldn't search that.

    He thinks the dog might have been wrong or the handler accidentally made a motion to have the second dog alert in the same spot as the first... but that seems far fetched. He's been doing nothing but bed bugs for 5-6 years and searched so aggressively he found a TINY baby carpet beetle (a few times actually) in a seam.

    I don't know what to make of this. They can't treat because they didn't detect, but he thinks the dogs may have been inaccurate.

    This is just so bizarre. Has this ever come up before? I did read the post by Nobugsonme that dogs do make mistakes and he alluded to "shenanigans" but I wasn't sure what that meant.

  2. Mawiwala

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Tue Oct 3 2017 3:13:17
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    There is the possibility that the handler played on your panic to get you to let him treat your house. The PCOs here always say never trust a dog inspection without visual proof.

    Your mothers "bites" couldbe caused by something else. I don't think she has a whole colonly in her bed after just two weeks to cause that much bites you were talking in your other threads. Bed bugs only bite every couple of days and normaly you don't pick up a big colony, maybe one to two. Those have to lay eggs and the hatching take some time.

    Maybe all this is just a big scare.

  3. movingout101

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Tue Oct 3 2017 6:31:56
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    Thanks. It's possible she didn't bring that many back from the hotel - or any at all. She has over 20 bites but if they got in the suitcase is another story.

    The dog company is a subcontractor of a PCO. So, financially they should be unrelated on paper, but who knows what goes on.

    So far no visual proof other than bites in a line, hotel stay, and dog smelling suitcase and bed.

    I did use DE and sprayed eco raider and he said that might have killed it if you only had 1 or 2.

  4. BigDummy

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Tue Oct 3 2017 9:53:51
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    If the dogs alert to an area and the PCO is unable to find any evidence I would not treat.

    HVAC/Locksmith/Bed Bug Control for a non-profit homeless shelter and long term veteran housing.
  5. Canuck

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Tue Oct 3 2017 19:27:03
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    I'll add to BD's comment. monitor. That is our policy when we are not able to confirm an alert. It happens. We do our best to confirm with physical evidence but it is not always possible.

    Sheree Swindle / certified K9-assisted bed bug inspector
  6. movingout101

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Tue Oct 3 2017 22:02:27
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    Thanks. She doesn't want to treat anyway (and legally the other company without the dogs can't treat if they don't see anything).

    We are going to just use climb-up traps on the beds. What is best to put in there? Baby powder or Cimexa? (I am out of DE now and I read Cimexa works better anyway). Cimexa really has an irritating effect and odor even if you use a tiny amount. Granted, it clears after a few hours - but wow. I wore a mask to apply to baseboards (puffs only) but then took off the mask and wow - yikes, had no idea what I did! Fortunately, it was fine the next day.

    My understanding was baby powder makes them slip and cimexa kills them, so baby powder seems to be the right thing to use, but the PCO said no, they both kill the bugs & it didn't matter what I used in the cups, even DE.

    Thanks again for all of your opinions and reading through my story / long posts.

  7. movingout101

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Tue Oct 3 2017 22:03:30
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    Oh also Cimexa isn't an instant killer... nor is baby powder. So that is basically why I'm not sure what to put in there. thanks.

  8. Mawiwala

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Wed Oct 4 2017 0:22:56
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    I would invest in a passive monitor. Especially for the bed the dog alerted.

  9. psychologically_messed_up

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Wed Oct 4 2017 2:49:08
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    movingout101 - 4 hours ago  » 
    Oh also Cimexa isn't an instant killer... nor is baby powder. So that is basically why I'm not sure what to put in there. thanks.

    CimeXa and Diatomaceous Earth are mechanical killers. They both work very well when applied properly.

    Baby powder does nothing other than make sure the bed bugs don’t chafe.

    "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras" Theodore Woodward

    I am, by no means, a pro. I'm simply a person that has had unfortunate luck, and somehow acquired the little guys.
    Any/all 'advice' I have to share is based on my own personal history and/or things I've read from the professionals on this site.
    My profession is medical, which is where I am confident in any advice I give, however rare it may be.
  10. movingout101

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Fri Oct 6 2017 23:24:57
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    My mom wanted the dog inspection again, and he alerted in the same spot as before. They get pretty crazy when they alert, and the handler said "Where" and he pointed to the box spring. There is a plastic brand label that the other PCO couldn't really remove (it's glued on or something) in the lower corner of each side of the box spring.

    Dog 2 alerted in the same area, and then he found another one in a bag nearby that had some old land line phones in it. Why BBs would be in there is a mystery. The room is full of clutter. Not good. Nobody is sleeping in the entire upstairs of the house anymore (I moved out). So, they might just stay in place for a while.

    Now they are debating treating that one room or treating the whole house.

  11. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 2 weeks ago
    Sat Oct 7 2017 0:33:28
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    Our FAQ on bed bug dogs recommend choosing a handler who visually verifies alerts. That's because an alert without visual verification isn't proof. It may be true the dog detected something the human didn't see, but then the handler should be poking around and finding the visual proof. You hired one who doesn't do that. But I would not rely on their opinion to treat, especially if they stand to make money from the treatment. As entomologist Michael Potter said of this sorts of situation, "show me the bugs!"

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  12. movingout101

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    Posted 1 week ago
    Wed Oct 11 2017 0:48:23
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    He looked quite a bit, but he didn't find anything. So, she hired another company to look in the same area - and he also didn't find anything. It's one of the most bizarre things I've witnessed. Not a single bedbug, yet bites, detection by 2 dogs in the same inch of a suitcase and bed corner (but nowhere else in 3500 square feet of sniffing).

    She ended up doing climb ups, cimexa, and EcoRaider applied by a PCO - not us. The beds are encased. She'll go back into the room in 10 days and sleep there for 3-4. The PCO comes back at 2 weeks. He treated without visual evidence but 2 dogs detecting twice seemed to be enough. He also didn't do any more rooms or use any more powerful chemicals. I was surprised they think EcoRaider is the best one. Another PCO said it would only work on contact, and "anything you can buy over the counter isn't going to solve the problem".

    It's like night and day from one PCO to the next.

  13. loubugs

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    Posted 1 week ago
    Wed Oct 11 2017 13:01:41
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    You might as well read this link:
    https://www.zappbug.com/do-natural-pesticides-kill-bed-bugs-in-the-real-world/

    Professional entomologist/arachnologist. I consult on all matters dealing with insects and arachnids, including those of natural history and biology to pest management and forensic entomology investigations.
  14. BigDummy

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    Posted 1 week ago
    Wed Oct 11 2017 14:08:16
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    It is possible to smell the scent of bed bugs even after they have been removed, that is why it's absolutely mandatory to find visual evidence. The dog cannot tell you why they are alerting, it is merely the handler's interpretation.

  15. movingout101

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    Posted 1 week ago
    Wed Oct 11 2017 21:09:35
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    Yeah, I wondered if the dogs smelled some kind of trace - like where one died or if it ended up under the stitching somehow ? The PCO said they can't go "under" any stitching because it is so tight (the mattress top) and a dead one would be easily visible. He put the flashlight on all kinds of angles because the "eggs glisten on an angle" and then meticulously searched every millimeter of the mattress...and nothing. So, what on earth those dogs smelled is a mystery to say the least.

    Loubugs - I had the same feeling about EcoRaider... but my mom wanted to use "the best company" in the area, who she had for years for carpenter ants (despite the fact they never could kill them for good...). They only use Eco Raider and cimexa in small cases like this. For extreme cases, you can have your things taken to their vikane fumigation center - so they really have a wide array of offerings (plus some other chemicals in between those two like your article mentioned). Nobody advised heat treatment. My dad and I both would've preferred to have used more potent chemicals given the data like you posted (I read something similar at an earlier time), but the PCO was already in a grey area by treating anyway because he couldn't find any visual evidence.

    The company has been around for decades and they do all kinds of pest control. This team does bed bugs only - so I guess they seem to think EcoRaider with cimexa dusting is sufficient. The only way to know is if she goes in that bed again in a week and doesn't get bitten. I moved out already, so now I'm just watching and waiting.... I just hope they aren't here. Moving in the midst of this was hellish.


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