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Diatomaceous earth

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rosiek

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 18:05:25
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I'm moving from my apartment. All furiture is being thrown out and all clothes have been washed/dried in hot water and put into storage. My concern is our books. I am steaming and isolating them for now. I hear a lot about this "DE" stuff. Would sprinkling this on the isolated books be a good idea to kill any potential bugs? I also plan on leaving these books outside for 2 weeks in hopes that there will be some HOT days, too. What do you think?
DragonFlight

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 18:50:41
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Leaving your books outside won't do nothing unless the temp reaches 150 Celsius, in which case many people will burn.

Your only solution is to put the books in zip lock bags and if you infestation was quite bad you're going to have to leave them in the zip lock bags for 18 months (1 1/2 years)
spideyjg

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 20:16:08
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BBs will starve to death faster at higher temps but realistically you need to seal for 18 months to ensure they die.

2 weeks isn't gonna happen.

120 F not 150 C is the death temp threshold but ideally you want to hit 140+

If bagging for long term storage toss some dry uncooked rice in the bag to absorb moisture out of the air to reduce the mold risk.

Jim
rosiek

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 20:57:48
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Thank you... all books are in ziplocks, or in the case of large hardcover books, they are in hefty garbage bags (closed with ties). What if we sprinkled DE in the bags? this kills bugs within 48 hours. Would this be a good solution? BTW, our infestation is not that bad, per the exterminator. He told us books should be ok, but I suffer from paranoia because of this.
rosiek

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 21:22:36
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ps- maybe I wasn't clear- basically, what can I do about my books?
1)throw them all out
2) seal them and sprinkle DE in them for some time
3) seal them for 18 months

2 exterminators told me that they most likely wouldn't be in books. What do you all think though?

I know heat isn't guarenteed. But in NJ we get some HOT days and I thought leaving them out in black hefty garbage bags ALL day would cause the books to reach over 100.
spideyjg

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 21:28:09
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You want to gamble or you want a guarantee?

Guarantee is sealing with dessicant for 18 months in the warmest place you have access to.

Jim
DragonFlight

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Posted 5 months ago
Fri May 29 2009 6:13:19
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How bad is the infestation ? How many have you seen (2) weeks ?

None ? Then your books could be alright, how many have you seen in total ? And how many have you killed or seen dead ?

Say you seen 12 and killed 10 then, I'd say you're books are fine, if you have seen more then 20 and only killed 7 then I'd be worried.
lieutenantdan

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Posted 5 months ago
Mon Jun 1 2009 9:48:09
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Yes, Isolate books and sprinkle DE in with the books.
DE will kill a bed bug in approx ten days once the bed bug comes into contact with the DE.
Yes, they can be in books.
buggyinsocal

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Posted 5 months ago
Mon Jun 1 2009 10:33:44
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Rosie,

Believe me, I know it doesn't sound like it from my posts, but I'd be the first person in line jumping up and down with joy if you could reliably get rid of bed bugs in items by putting them in garbage bags and putting them out in the heat in the sun on a hot day. I live in southern California, so trust me, we get a lot more hot days more often than you do. And with the desert only a short drive away, we have access to places where in the summer the air temp alone reaches 120 degrees F.

I did not bank on treating any items that way, despite having access to the perfect climate in which to do so. Here's why.

First of all, even in sunny southern California, temperatures fluctuate throughout the day. As does sunshine. Maintaining an even temperature outside the bags without controlling the weather is impossible.

Secondly, when items are bagged up, using heat to treat them effectively is even more complicated. You have to assure that every book and cranny inside the bag reaches the thermal death point and stays there. This is why in thermal remediation the whole structure is often heated to 140. Temperatures shy of 120 kill the bugs, but heating the whole thing to 140 assures that even the nooks and crannies that are better insulated make it to the thermal death point. Thermal remediation also keeps the temp of the whole place being treated at 140 for four or more hours.

It's very hard to reliably do that with do it yourself in bag heating.

Even in a desert at 120 degree temps during the day, I wouldn't count 100% on the temp inside the bags, even if places within a car, reliably reaching the thermal death point.

And it just doesn't get that hot in NJ.

I'm also not sure DE on books in the greatest idea. At least, the way that I handle my books, I would be worried about inhaling it. Other people may treat their books differently, and I admit given what I do for a living, I spend more time up close and personal with my books than normal people, but I'd be concerned about it.

A better option, and you might ask the PCOs about this, would be putting your books in bins with DDVP strips.

The best option would be to Packtite them in small batches.

Bed bugs, as people above have pointed out, don't generally prefer to harbor in books. But they can get into them. Exactly how many bed bugs you do or don't have in your books depends on the specifics of your infestation, and we can't know that just from your descriptions.
DragonFlight

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Posted 5 months ago
Mon Jun 1 2009 10:43:17
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Packet lite looks awsome, they need to make a large version of this because it basically speeds up the killing of bed beds in personal belongs which. I think they need to make large sizes of packet lite. Imagine taking a mattress putting it into a large packet lite and let it go for two hours killing all bed bugs, saving beds and money. Although even if this would come to pass garbage picking is not something you should do as all you'll do is repeat the process over and over and over unless some people out there like it.
spideyjg

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Posted 5 months ago
Mon Jun 1 2009 14:54:33
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DDVP is a better option in a sealed bag than DE.

DDVP is a fumigant whereas DE is dependent on the bugs to walk through it. Now sealed in a bag with no stimuli the bugs may just lay dormant for months before they ever start trying to forage and cross the DE.

Plus DE is like flour or powder and will be damn difficult to remove from the book covers of a hardback.

Jim
DragonFlight

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Posted 5 months ago
Tue Jun 2 2009 9:46:14
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DDVP ? What is that? So you are saying use DDVP and for low to minor infestations it will work fast and effective ?
buggyinsocal

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Posted 5 months ago
Tue Jun 2 2009 12:21:10
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DDVP is Dichlorvus. It's a chemical pesticide.

You can find the MSPS sheet on the *liquid* form of it here:

http://www2.itap.purdue.edu/msds/docs/9339.pdf

For customer use, it's been formulated into strips like this:

http://www.acehardware.com/sm-hot-shot-no-pest-strip-12-pack-hot-shot-no--pi-1375192.html

DDVP is no substitute for professional treatment. In addition, using it off label can be very dangerous. While it is manufactured in strip form, it's a chemical that is used as a gas fumigant. If you carefully read the label (which you should do before using any chemical pesticide), you will note that it specifically says not to use in enclosed spaces. That's why using it to treat, say, a car is potentially dangerous.

The chemical used in DDVP strips does work on bed bugs. At least one pest controller has suggested using it to treat items that cannot be treated with heat. Using DDVP on electronics is not recommended since it has a corrosive effect. If DDVP is used in bags or other sealed containers, those sealed containers MUST be opened after treatment in a VERY well ventilated area. (As an example, when I treated my DVDs and CDs which had been outside the apartment during thermal treatment, I put one DDVP strip in each Rubbermaide bin, resealed the bins with duct tape, let the strips work for a week, and then opened the bins up outside and let them sit open outside before bringing any of them into the house.

Jeff over at Bed Bug Central Television discusses the use of Nuvan (the professional version of DDVP strips) Strips in episode #22 here:

http://tv.bedbugcentral.com/index.php/2009/04/bbctv-22-nuvan-prostrips/

DDVP strips, like DE or thermal or steam or other chemical treatments or inspection or detection dog/handler teams, are one part in the larger integrated pest management strategy that can be used to effectively fight bed bugs. Like any other piece in the strategy, few of them work alone, and all come with costs and benefits. As with many of these treatment, all of them must be used safely to avoid harm to people and animals, but if used safely, they can be very effective.

(One thing I disagreed with Jeff about. I personally wouldn't use the strips to treat any items of clothing. I'm not chemist enough to understand how the gas lingers and whether wearing an item treated with DDVP would run the risk of your skin coming into too much contact with the chemical afterwards. I'm not saying it's inevitable that it would. I'm just saying that since answering that question is beyond my understanding of science, I'm personally not going to take that risk, esp. since most clothing and shoes can be treated in other ways: storage, packtite, careful inspection, dry cleaning, etc.)
DragonFlight

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Posted 5 months ago
Tue Jun 2 2009 18:39:07
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Alright DDVP are strips of a strong gas, if you don't really care to much about fumes and want to combat a problem. Is DDVP more effective then DE ? Are bed bugs drawn to these strips like flies to honey ?
ajade274

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Posted 5 months ago
Wed Jun 3 2009 11:42:45
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So, I have a question and it sounds like someone on this thread can give me some good advice. My roommate had bed bugs last August and even though my room was next to hers, there were no signs anywhere in my room or on my stuff. I wasn't sleeping there much and she was there every night, so I think they all went for her. So, I am super paranoid, because I bagged everything up then, washed everything and went through a week of hell. I moved out shortly after and never slept in my bed in that apartment again. It went to storage right after the freeze treatment and pesticides. I've been living in my apartment since November and just last night decided to flip my mattress and there was one, kind of big, bug, upside down, and looked dead. I have no signs of bites, neither does my boyfriend. I know what to look for, as my roommate had a bad infestation. No excrement, or other bugs, I checked all over my bed and walls. Would I be crazy to just go to the hardware store and buy a treatment to put around my bed and mattress? Someone said lice spray. I wonder if that bug was in my mattress from last August dead and just came out now. I've been thinking about getting a new bed anyway so maybe that's a good solution? I'm not sure if I should be worried more or less worried.