DE DANGER! DE WARNING! BE AFRAID! DE IS DEATH! BOO!

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DE DANGER! DE WARNING! BE AFRAID! DE IS DEATH! BOO!

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nycyn

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 2:58:11
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Now that I have your attention, I have some questions about what seems to be prompt alarmist disclaimers when anybody posts about DE (diatomaceous earth.)

I understand about freshwater food grade diatomaceous earth(the safe, organic, pesticide-free one.) I understand it is easily airborne and can be an inhalation 'hazard'. I understand that it should be applied very sparingly to be effective.

What I don't understand is that, when the subject is raised, instead of going over types of DE and application procedures, responses lean more towards--Run Away!

Or is it me?

Yeah I know the government warning about silicosis--the lung disease some of those rescued Chilean coal miners have, for example. And DE miners get it too. They are the people that are exposed intensely and daily over decades...

And that warning is not in the context of bed bug prevention/treatment which the gov doesn't recognize it yet. I believe the gov't has it listed as a product used on farms and livestock facilities--maybe where they dump it in silos constantly, for example.

Anyway, it isn't that I feel the DE method isn't supported here--I get the feeling that it is strongly discouraged and not even allowed a chance to leave the gate.

Again, or is it me?
spideyjg

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 3:44:32
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To sum up...

Proper amount, proper location, and with proper PPE DE is very useful and no one is against proper usage.

I have a Crusader duster loaded with it along with a P100 respirator in the closet right now.

Last week used a DE and boric acid mix in my Exacticide to deal with some German roaches in the voids under cabinets.

I'm sooooooooooo anti DE.

Jim
EffeCi

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 8:18:35
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Last week used a DE and boric acid mix in my Exacticide to deal with some German roaches in the voids under cabinets.

Next time use a cockroach gel bait: it works better, faster and is very long lasting.
Richard56

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 9:08:21
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Given the way some people misuse DE, the warnings in many of these threads are understandable. That said, I've wished for a long time that the emphasis in such threads would be on more on a detailed proper application as opposed to warnings and very general statements on application such as "use only in cracks and crevices...". I feel the same way about other DIY topics here as well. Personally, I treated solely with DE and steam and frankly it was very hard to find the proper way to apply DE, be it here or elsewhere. Maybe a DIY section would be useful where proper procedures, equipment and application techniques are detailed and discussed and perhaps shown via photos and videos. The argument has been made that people may misuse such information, but people are already misusing these pesticides so hopefully proper education will be a net positive.

Richard
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 9:28:39
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There are DE and steam FAQs which give some tips and point to resources which give more detailed information We would not have a DE FAQ if the answer was "it's just plain bad".

On the other hand, look closely at how people describe their DE use in some of the recent threads you refer to. They often describe it in such a way that it sounds like it is being over or misapplied.

I am working on some FAQs with more detailed DIY instruction based on videos by professionals. However, the lack of such resources is partly because I don't think just anyone should be giving DIY treatment advice.
KillerQueen

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 9:50:44
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When bootapest.com goes live in a couple of months, I'm going to have all kinds of videos, including the proper way to apply DE. I have a small 3 foot by 3 foot wall with an outlet and molding to show how to apply. It even has an enclosed plexiglass back to show just how the dust floats into the void and cracks when properly applied.

All kinds of videos and pictures coming soon, hang in there kids!
Richard56

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 9:59:03
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Excellent!
scaredsilly

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 11:33:40
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KQ, this is EXACTLY the good news we need to hear! I've spent hours on Youtube, etc trying to figure out how to DIY correctly. Leaves lots of guesswork. Thanks for helping us out. Can you go live in a few weeks though instead of a few months? I don't want to have bugs that long!
spideyjg

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 14:43:24
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EffeCi - 6 hours ago »

Last week used a DE and boric acid mix in my Exacticide to deal with some German roaches in the voids under cabinets.

Next time use a cockroach gel bait: it works better, faster and is very long lasting.

I hear you EffeCi but had bait stations out for about a week and no appreciable dent in the population.
The cabinets have about a 3" gap between their bottom and the floor and this void seems their main harborage. The stations could clean up the stragglers but I wanted to hit the main location hard. Haven't seen one since.

We have a 3 month old kitten getting into everything so I didn't want any gel bait she could get into.

Jim
spideyjg

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 14:46:48
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Nobugsonme - 5 hours ago »

On the other hand, look closely at how people describe their DE use in some of the recent threads you refer to. They often describe it in such a way that it sounds like it is being over or misapplied.

Exactly! Like this one.......

I have been using DE on the mattress itself with a somewhat thick layer, then putting a thick sheet over it (the DE will get into that sheet, and not a lot will get out me) and then I sleep on top of that.
nycyn

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 20:02:23
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Link to a recent thread:

http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/de-questions-already-read-faq#post-77973

Interesting link in there about how "dust" has been use in bed bug treatment for "thousands of years." I'm fascinated with the critters, just short of obsessed, but I ain't doing the BB version of The History of the World.
SearchandDestroy

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 16 2010 20:59:52
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Good idea Richard56 and thanks to KQ! Can't wait for videos...
nycyn

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Dec 17 2010 0:40:29
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BTW, DE used to be called "tooth powder." I think I need to get out more.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Dec 17 2010 1:23:21
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I am happy to post any expert videos here if KillerQueen or others are willing to share. (I stress the word "expert.")
insecticidal

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Dec 17 2010 7:48:39
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spideyjg - 2 months ago »
Last week used a DE and boric acid mix in my Exacticide to deal with some German roaches in the voids under cabinets.

This is something I've been wondering about - is there any way to mix silica gel powder, boric acid, or other ingredients to accelerate the action of DE?

I'm talking DIY, here. I know Alpine Dust uses a chemical called "Dinotefuran" as an accelerant. I've seen a lot of old posts where people speculate that Drione contains DE, though I can't find anything on its label or MSDS to support that.

I actually have an unopened container of Alpine Dust. I opted for Drione, when I found it was available and then compared their labels. Drione is rated for use in food handling areas, whereas Alpine Dust is not. Drione is also supposed to be faster-acting than Alpine Dust, which is supposed to be about twice as fast as straight DE.
so unsettling

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Dec 17 2010 8:36:56
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Most of the videos I have seen for dust application are pretty useless. They are better at telling how NOT to do it, than how to actually do it right. When they show the correct method, not a trace of dust can be seen coming out of the duster, but maybe they guy doing the video can see it. If the nozzle of the duster is right in a crack or some kind of opening, he can't see what he is putting down any more than we can--he just assumes that since he hit it with the right pressure, it is probably settling as a fine dust.

I have applied and cleaned up my mess over and over. I am only beginning to get the hang of it, and to learn the idiosyncracies of the various types of dusters. It seems that the nozzles of the cheaper dusters, such as bellows and pest pistol, are simply too wide and require the most ridiculously delicate touch to make the stuff exit as a DUST. (They even look like toys, and I think I am going to spend more on something more professional). I notice that it is easier to get a dustlike vapor coming directly from the 8-10 ounce plastic bottles that the dusts are sold in--but the containers are too big and awky to have much practical application in difficult areas.
spideyjg

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Dec 17 2010 12:39:25
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insecticidal - 4 hours ago »
This is something I've been wondering about - is there any way to mix silica gel powder, boric acid, or other ingredients to accelerate the action of DE?
I'm talking DIY, here. I know Alpine Dust uses a chemical called "Dinotefuran" as an accelerant. I've seen a lot of old posts where people speculate that Drione contains DE, though I can't find anything on its label or MSDS to support that.

Drione doesn't contain DE. The maker of the Exacticide told me that they do not recommend using it in the device unless diluted 1/3 with Borid. DE can be used straight without harm. Pure Drione will damage the manifold in it in a day. Even diluted it will need repair after about a year.

I wouldn't mix usually but for under the cabinets, since I had to drill holes I put a mixture of 2 products in to target the roaches.

You have to aerosolize the dust and poof out the cloud. The biggest issue is people overfill the duster and cannot poof put the cloud only.

The Exacticide tosses out a cloud but you have to move fast. It isn't for delicate spots but kicks ass over a handheld on long runs.

Why as a non pro I bought one? Since I spent 3 days doing the perimeter by hand I wanted something to save all that labor if, God forbid, I have to go through this again.

Jim
insecticidal

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Dec 17 2010 13:33:33
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spideyjg - 49 minutes ago »
Drione doesn't contain DE. The maker of the Exacticide told me that they do not recommend using it in the device unless diluted 1/3 with Borid. DE can be used straight without harm. Pure Drione will damage the manifold in it in a day. Even diluted it will need repair after about a year.

Wait, so "the Exacticide" is a duster of some sort? And this "manifold" that Drione damages is part of it?

Will Drione damage wooden floorboard, baseboard, or indoor paint?
spideyjg

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Dec 17 2010 14:06:01
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insecticidal - 15 minutes ago »

spideyjg - 49 minutes ago »
Drione doesn't contain DE. The maker of the Exacticide told me that they do not recommend using it in the device unless diluted 1/3 with Borid. DE can be used straight without harm. Pure Drione will damage the manifold in it in a day. Even diluted it will need repair after about a year.

Wait, so "the Exacticide" is a duster of some sort? And this "manifold" that Drione damages is part of it?
Will Drione damage wooden floorboard, baseboard, or indoor paint?

The Exacticide is a powered duster. Google it up for details.
Drione greatly accelerates wear and tear of, per the maker, the manifold in the device.

Jim
jrbtnyc

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Dec 17 2010 15:15:02
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Jim – possibility of ambiguity/confusion. When you said...

"The maker of the Exacticide told me that they do not recommend using it in the device unless diluted 1/3 with Borid."

...did you mean 1 part Borid along with 2 parts Exacticide or 2 parts Borid along with 1 part Exacticide.
spideyjg

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Dec 17 2010 15:51:05
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No it is 1 part Drione to 3 parts Borid. Borid is a fine boric acid.

The Exacticide is a battery powered pesticidal dust delivery device not a pesticide.

Jim
insecticidal

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Dec 18 2010 11:19:39
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This is all getting very far off topic, but I'm curious about the rationale of mixing boric acid powder with Drione. Would it serve any insecticidal purpose? Otherwise, why didn't they recommend talc or some other fairly inert dust?

DE + boric acid makes sense to me, since DE (as I understand it) just makes their shells leaky. Once moisture starts to exit, it can wet the boric acid, and that might cause further damage to the shell. I guess if it really worked like that, someone would already be selling such a formulation.

I wish I could run these sorts of experiments. It might help make up for having BBs, in the first place. I have yet to see a live adult, though. I guess that's a good thing.
spideyjg

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Dec 18 2010 13:01:02
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The mixture would be fine in a roach situation and the dilution reduced the wear and tear on the inner workings of the device.

Both Drione and BA are fine products for roaches. It would be pointless in a BB situation as BA has no effect.

I mixed BA and a pesticide laced DE product for under the sink and cabinets to get the German roaches.

Jim
Ann B

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Mar 20 2011 23:32:47
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use DE really lightly and it is super effective.
Try dipping a regular old paint brush in the powder and brushing on an almost invisible dusting onto all hard surfaces.
Good luck!
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Mar 21 2011 0:02:51
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I would recommend doing a bit more research before dusting with DE.
We have a DE FAQ here, which is a good start.
NJ-BITES

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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jul 30 2011 20:16:02
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I agree with these warnings.

DE can be very useful IF used properly.

DE Does have: Sharp fibers that can potentially cause lung damage like asbestos.

http://www.ghorganics.com/Product/DE_Diatom.jpg