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~~contact" killers vs "residual" killers~~

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  1. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Oct 6 2009 21:44:34
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    ~~~any more advice for me and others about this subject~~~Please~~

  2. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Oct 6 2009 23:57:55
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    watkins,

    I saw your posts on the "Finally" thread. If you want advice on self-treatment, I am not a fan of this for most people. Most of us here are not. I will answer your question but want to give you some additional information as the thread I have seen you active on is very biased towards DIY treatment with a particular product.

    Many products or processes people use to try and kill bed bugs are not terribly effective. They can take a long time. They may fail indefinitely. Others pose dangers to humans or pets. It is not just pesticides which can pose dangers, either. Many of those touted as "safe" and "all-natural" also have hazards involved.

    If you do have to self-treat, I recommend doing a lot of research first and not trying just anything that you read online (here or elsewhere).

    What's your situation? Is someone treating your home? Is this an option?

    A contact killer is a spray that will kill bed bugs if you hit them directly. 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, Murphy's Oil Soap, boiling water are all contact killers. Dry vapor steamers can be used to kill bed bugs directly with steam. (Even steam must be used with caution to avoid causing mold growth AND to avoid exposure to toxins from contact between steam and paint or other substances in the room. A respirator is recommended.)

    Spray contact killers do not make much of a dent in your bed bug population, because bed bugs are unlikely to be hanging out where you can see and spray them.

    Steam can penetrate a bit more so, used properly, can do a lot, but does need to be repeated in most cases, probably a number of times. It's labor intensive.

    A residual is a chemical that sits there for a while and continues to kill bed bugs, assuming you do not wash it off. (Don't mop or steam if you have a residual down!)

    A third type of pesticide is a mechanical killer -- dusts like fresh water diatomaceous earth (DE) -- can be used as mechanical killers. (If you use DE you must use the right kind and take safety precautions as it is an inhalation risk -- you can mess up your lungs. A respirator is recommended. AND you must never use pool grade DE.)

    Again, you do not want to sweep, dust, vacuum or steam away a mechanical killer.

    Some products (such as freshwater DE with pesticides added) combine residual and mechanical processes.

    I am not an expert on these things by any means, but I have been here since the site began and have heard a LOT of stories.

    A good, experienced pest control pro is going to get rid of bed bugs faster and with less danger to humans than an amateur, even one who does some reading.

    Even a second-rate PCO is probably going to do a better and faster job. Now, there's the issue of what the landlord/neighbors/etc. allow the PCO to do, or pay to have done -- that's another story.

    I also do not know where you are, but it's also worth considering that in many places outside the US, pest pros have access to much more effective products than PCOs have in the US, let alone those available in a store or on the internet.

    Again, I know this is more than you asked for, but I am trying to counterbalance some of the influences in the other thread.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  3. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 7 2009 14:46:57
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    ~~lets talk about this ~~DE~~with the small children I have~~ Would I be safe to put this stuff in my attic and under the house and leave it there!! I dont have any amimals and dont plan to get any!! never!! OOH I live in a single story house~ Neighbors are not to close I am in the deep south!!GA~ ooh yea~~ If the bugs crawl on the powder and then on humans isnt that dangerous!!~~ Be back on tonght~~

  4. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 7 2009 15:44:56
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    Your best bet if you need treatment is to call in a pro. If you cannot afford one you have a lot of homework to do on BB behavior and biology to examine your house and formulate an attack plan. Study up on pesticides, application, and above and beyond all else SAFETY before you do anything other than get some climbup monitors.

    Reread all of nobugs post.

    Jim

  5. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 7 2009 21:52:12
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    ~~oops~~ sorry i would not spread it myself I would have a pro do it but I need to know all my options and trust me I have been on the puter ALOT reading every thing i can not just this site did u know there are convention for BB ~~I Do not want to put my family in harms way I just need to know all about which chemicals do what !! so I can decide what is going to go in My home !!A Pro might not be good at doing his research I think we all can say some people are just idiots and are just out for your money and don’t care about any thing else~~ they are the ones we pretend to know what they are doing ~BUT really don’t ~~I just don’t want some one who does not give a rats patutty about my kids to come in to my home and start using chemicals that I know nothing about!! A pro told me today that DE doesn’t work and that he would use bataline which I cant find any info on!! But maybe I am not spelling right!! I have made no real decisions yet but to keep spraying the Ortho which my kids DR. said a long as I was following the directions The lil ones would be fine. It has been over a week an I seems to be doing the job!! I am thinking Long run here!! I HATE BUGS with a passion I have found that there are more bugs than I knew about ~~(booklice who knew)~~I have the money for a pro~~ It is actually cheaper than I thought!! I am just cautious about who comes and goes~~ pro or not~~ Family first an foremost!! ~~ You have been really helpful to me thanks ~~ you make me think about what I am doing~~ I still need to know if the bugs crawl in the powder and dont die right away and some how get on the kids is it Dangerous~~ Not just DE but any chemical powder~~

  6. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 7 2009 22:04:20
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    BB like being very close to their hosts. IMHO they are unlikelyto be roaming your attic or under your house.

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  7. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 7 2009 22:26:21
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    ~~yea I know~~ BUT as long as they are not bitting an crawling around me and the kids I can get some sleep and keep a level head about the whole thing!!~~what is IMHO~~

  8. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 7 2009 22:50:04
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    watkinsnewan - 53 minutes ago  » 
    A pro told me today that DE doesn’t work and that he would use bataline which I cant find any info on!!~~ I still need to know if the bugs crawl in the powder and dont die right away and some how get on the kids is it Dangerous~~ Not just DE but any chemical powder~~

    The "pro" is wrong. DE killed 100% of BBs in 10 days in a University of Kentucky study published a couple of months ago. Other dusts were very effective as well.

    I'm no PCO but used DE in my war followup and would use dusts wherever possible first if I had a reinfestation.

    Pesticide dusts kick ass on BBs when applied properly in the proper locations. The amount bugs may carry on them would be insignificant.

    Dusts are residual killers and, applied properly, disperse farther and deeper into cracks and crevices than any liquid can.

    Jim

  9. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 7 2009 23:18:01
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    ~~~humm~~ I was thinking I would use dust but it sound soo dangerous an I THINK I would use it only in the attic and under house ~~DE seems to pop up alot with my research~~ more people swear by it than anything else~~ be back tomarrow for more advice~~

  10. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 7 2009 23:36:49
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    Sounds like you are trying to go all out DIY which isn't the best action.

    Jim

  11. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 8 2009 0:45:27
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    I would recommend interviewing some more pros about their plan of attack, before choosing one -- and definitely before even thinking about self-treatment.

    DE can work but people tend to mis- and over-apply it. Doing so can put you in danger, it can also mean it doesn't work well.

    We have a FAQ on choosing a PCO.

    I would also recommend the FAQs in general. There's a list of many of the most useful ones here.

    Or you can go to the main FAQs page.

  12. Jason1

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 8 2009 2:08:54
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    Good luck with your self-treatment, Watkins, if that's the course of action you continue to make. MANY people, such as myself, are taking that route these days....with excellent success. I'm living proof in WORKS. And it doesn't cost thousands of dollars either, not even hundreds. Now of course self-treatment will not work for everyone....and the same goes for alot of pco's

    And speaking of pco's, as others have pointed out, it woould'nt hurt getting a few more of them to take a look at your situation. But if you're still not satisfied....there is absolutely nothing wrong with self-treatment, after you've done research and dd on what is safe for you and your family, etc.

    watkinsnewan - 1 day ago  » 
    ~~~any more advice for me and others about this subject~~~Please~~

  13. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 8 2009 9:04:19
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    watkinsnewan - 10 hours ago  » 
    ~~yea I know~~ BUT as long as they are not bitting an crawling around me and the kids I can get some sleep and keep a level head about the whole thing!!~~what is IMHO~~

    In My Humble Opinion
    …but again IMHO applying to your attic and crawl space won't help you. You're just spending money time and energy that you could put to
    use elsewhere.

    And what's with the attention getting "~". This isn't eBay.

  14. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 8 2009 10:17:55
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    ok sorry about that it is a trade mark of mine ;~) Have family scattered from the East to West coast.~ my family an friends love it for when I send pic and updates!! i will try to refrain from it ;~(
    I don’t use Ebay by the way!!

    Thanks Jason for the encouraging words oops got to go PCO coming right now to do inspection an talk more about it !!I just called him this morning!!

  15. buggyinsocal

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 8 2009 11:58:02
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    I'm home sick today, so I have time for a lengthier response than I usually do during the semester.

    I'm all for self-reliance. (After all, among other writers this semester, I'm teaching Franklin and Emerson, so I'm really reading some of the earliest American writers to talk explicitly about that tendency that is so typical of culture in the United States.)

    However, when it comes to bed bugs, I'm a staunch supporter of hiring a qualified PCO to take care of the problem. Here's why.

    First up, although I'm an expert in my field, I am also (probably because of my day job) quite clear when I have wandered into an area where I lack expertise. While I've learned a lot following the boards here, I'm still don't think I have the same level of expertise as a really good PCO. I can tell you a lot, now, about the behaviors of bed bugs. I can recognize bed bug signs very clearly. I can talk very generally about different classes of chemical pesticides.

    But really good pest control really is as much art and instinct as science. Someone who deals with bed bugs all day long has a hands on expertise that I lack--even though I was fortunate enough to find a good PCO who took a good 20 minutes and walked me through the process of inspecting my own suitcase, patiently answering my questions about whether a particular piece of detritus was an egg or not. After my thermal treatment, in fully cleaning the bedroom, I found eggs in their natural habitat. Before treatment, I'd found adults and several stages of nymphs as well as obvious fecal matter.

    I don't think that I'd have the same understanding if I hadn't seen all those things up close and in person.

    However, I have only ever seen one infestation in its natural habitat. Good, experienced PCOs have seen hundreds if not thousands. I know from my day job that no matter how much I analyze that one example, my knowledge base is not as well developed as a pro who has seen thousands. I know this because students whose papers I analyze act like I'm magic in how quickly I zoom in on the issues in the paper. They think I have an almost supernatural ability, but I don't. What I have is more than 15 years of experience reading student work and a tens of thousands of papers read under my belt. That makes me a more skilled reader because I have a larger sample set to draw from.

    That same difference is present between really skilled amateurs who are doing their own pest control and a good PCO.

    In addition, there are a lot of different chemicals on the market, and even the pros don't 100% agree on which ones are most effective and in what applications. I don't feel skilled enough to make those kinds of decisions on my own.

    The fact that the pros don't agree on them does not mean that pros are wrong. There are plenty of things in my field that people argue about; one side is not more right than the other. Disagreements with professions are common. We see those disagreements on display every time someone asks, for example, about the training of bed bug dogs. The science on growth inhibitors, for example, or how alarm chemicals work with bed bugs isn't 100% solid yet. Just because you're hiring a pro doesn't mean that you can't begin to make decisions about which horse you're going to back in those races; however, it's important to remember that things that science believes at one moment often get disproved later. Since pros don't agree on everything and science changes so fast, if I'm fighting an entrenched and complicated pest, I would prefer to rely on the expertise of someone who has dedicated his or her professional life to following the scientific and/or trade discussions about that issue, as that kind of long term engagement cannot be 100% replicated, even by regular participation here. I know my limits; the entomologists and PCOs here know more than I do. (for example, I can usually tell if a photo is or isn't a bed bug--at this point after more than a year and a half here and looking at lots of photos, but I do not trust my ability to identify any of the other bugs conclusively, which is why you won't see me tell people what the bugs that aren't bed bugs are.)

    In addition, while my experience with bed bugs has made me much more willing to use chemical pesticides in my home and has even convinced me to advocate for more research on chemical pesticides that work more effectively on bed bugs in general because I think we need more of those to be available (including taking a second look at some of the banned organophosphates NOT including DDT since we have good science that says that bed bugs are in places already resistant to that), I know how badly I did in chemistry more than 30 years ago. I simply don't have enough scientific or practical knowledge about the safety of chemicals to feel confident that I can apply them safely. The labels and MSDS for various chemicals contain a lot of technical information. But even more importantly (because I'm a pretty good reader and can decode that stuff given enough time), even if I go out and buy all the personal protective gear required, if it came down to me and chemicals to be sprayed in my home, I can follow the label directions, but (and it's an important but) I still lack the experience that would help me apply them most effectively. A professional pest control person will have had the experience of applying the chemicals and knowing the best places to put the chemicals to make them most effective--they can tell by looking after they've sprayed something whether the application is enough, too much, or inadequate. I can't do either of those things.

    They're likely to have a lot more experience with what happens when you mix the various pesticides applied in one residence.

    Since exposure to chemical pesticides often doesn't show bad health effects right away or even short term, if I'm going to use them safely in my home, I want a pro who really understands them and has that experience to apply them.

    Now, does that mean that I'm unilaterally opposed to self-treatment? No.

    Some people live in places where they can't find a good PCO. Some people have landlords who won't hire a good PCO at the same time that local regulations or their situations prevent them from hiring their own.

    In cases where there is absolutely no other option, then sometimes people don't have access to that expertise, and self-treatment is the only option. In my opinion, however, both for the safety of the bed bug sufferer and his or her family, and because access to the expertise and knowledge that *good* pros have, self-treatment should be the method of last resort.

    Some people have done it successfully and safely. The problem with accounts anywhere on the web of people who claim to have done it themselves safely is that it's very hard to prove that. After all, if a person suffers ill effects from over exposure to chemical pesticides, those ill effects may not show up for decades.

    Since I can't do a longitudinal study of people who've self treated to see if they have ill health effects years down the road, the best decision I can make is to hire a professional who has more expertise than I do. If I choose wisely, then I'm doing to most I can to safely and efficiently rid myself of bed bugs AND educate myself in the process. I know I've been exposed to bed bugs once since I got rid of the ones in my home. I also have stayed at the hotel that I believe was the source of my infestation after that first trip. I've seen evidence of possible former bed bug infestations at other hotels. My lifestyle means that I will be exposed to bed bugs repeatedly. If my PCO hadn't taken the time to educate me, and if I didn't continue to educate myself, I think my risk of reinfestation would be much higher. I point that out to draw attention to the fact that I don't actually feel like hiring a PCO disempowers peoples' ability to be proactive and contribute to the success of the infestation. My PCO actually seemed surprised that I wanted to know about each and every chemical applied and wanted him to show me how to inspect my suitcase (he said that most people just had them treat and kind of ran away from the problem.) So I get that part of the appeal of self-treatment is that people want to be involved in the resolution of their own problem, and I completely support that.

    What I cannot and will not ever support is the entirely false notion that all PCOs are out to make a quick buck and are a scam. Sure, there are bad apples in every profession. Some PCOs are just out for the money. The solution to that, however, isn't to bad mouth all PCOs but to post objective reviews of companies--including the good and the bad--so other people can find their way to the good ones.

    I also object to any treatment that is penny wise but pound foolish. Very often improperly done self-treatment only makes the bed bug problem worse and more deeply entrenched, which means later a professional ha to be called in to deal with a harder to fight infestation. It seems to me to make more sense to treat the problem effectively at the beginning of the process.

    And here's where I finally get back to the specific subject mentioned in the subject line.

    I wouldn't trust advice I got on the internet about the exact mix and place of application of residual and contact killers because it is more art and instinct than just science alone. In the interval between finding bugs and getting a PCO you trust to treat, 91% rubbing alcohol works great as a contact killer, and it's super cheap.

    But as for the rest, I can't in good conscience advocate DIY pest control except as an approach of last resort. Most responsible voices about effective bed bug treatment will take the same approach because there are so many other variables: what's the layout of your residence, what is the construction of the building, how long has the infestation been there; how many rooms are affected; are there kids, pets, or adults with particular health issues in the residence; what methods of control have already been used and how do those chemicals or means interact with the pesticides planned to be applied--just to name a few.

    It's probably a much wiser and more efficient use of a person's time to investigate PCOs in the area and find a good one to treat than to try to give yourself an imperfect crash course in the pest control.

    I wouldn't read articles on the internet to find out how to perform a particular surgery and then operate on myself. For me, doing your own pest control if there are good PCOs around is pretty much equivalent to that .

  16. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 8 2009 13:34:11
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    PCO just left an OMg I have BB.. in my room not kids!! He opened the zipper on the encasement and found an adult!! dident find them anywhere else in the room with his flash light, says he cant give me a price or even tell me what kind of chemicals they would use cause it is bran new!! that he had a whole Team up in ATL devoted to BB !! with his company!! He couldn’t say much about the subject! Someone would be calling me later on today!! He sounded like he wanted to talk with me more about the subject but couldn’t!! What is he not telling me!! he did tell me everything I found out on my own through my own research!! hard to get rid of stuff like that!! said they had eradicated them years ago then they banned the stuff that killed them! knew that too!!~~~does the Gray hair on the top of his head make him smarter~~hummmmmm dono ya'll !!thinking about going back to school and takin a course on BB~ not :~( ~~I am still giong to use MY ORTHO HOME DEFENCE MAX ~~it gives me peace untill I decide what I am going to go forward with!! That is proof right there it is working!! an the encasement!! got to go mop with my murphy oil soap seems to be doing my floors a whole lot of good!! thinking about doing some remodling cause of this BB problem!!

  17. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 8 2009 13:38:04
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    ooh yea said that they would not use DE in my home!! wonder why!!!

  18. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 8 2009 15:24:23
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    The PCO and company decide based on many factors for the treatment approach.

    They saw your home and evaluated, I'm not going to second guess them.

    You want a magic bullet or prescription to DIY sight unseen and you aren't getting either.

    Jim

  19. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 8 2009 23:26:15
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    Cilecto why do you think it is a bad idea to have it applied in my attic and under house I think that it would be the safest place where my kids cannot get to it ~~both r locked tight~~ I saw a pest control company advertising in on there truck on my way home from school just tonight!! Do you think this would not be useful on BB!!
    Buggyinsocal I just realized you r from Cali that is where I got them from an airplane out of SF!! That was good reading helped !! ~~Thanks~~
    Spideyjg: u r from Cali too did you use that name cause you like spiders!! PCO didn’t evaluate any thing didn’t say anything I didn’t know from reading up on the internet!! I told him some stuff he didn’t know!! Come on here!! And that was the second PCO that has come out the third one is coming tomorrow morning!! How come some one can get into such a dangerous job and not know what they r doing!! Should be illegal! You got to remember I live in the deep deep south BUT was born and raised in Cali my self!! They still make moon shine here and some not all don’t even put there kids in Car seat or use a seat belt!! Where I live star bucks is over an hour away!! Wal-Mart 45 min!! $1.90 4 gal milk, $500 ~4 ~ 3 bed two bath beautiful home that sits on a acre of land!! AND last but not least 1-5 years behind west coast!! I know this from all the friends and family I have there an here!! so come on I am going to be really really picky about who I hire and not just let anyone or some who doesn’t care bout my kids come in to my home and start spraying something that does'nt work!! And YEA I WANT magic bullet or prescription in this day and age the government should do something about puttin something on the shelves of Wal-mart or anywhere else so that People stop committing suicide and going nuts!! ~~~I USE ORTHO HOME MAX DEFANCE~~ AND me an my kids DON”T have to be live bate to them!! Like being thrown to the sharks to fend 4 youself ! I have not been bitten in over a week an neither has my kids~~ so contact killer , residual killer ~~I will shout it from the roof tops ORTHO GAVE me peace and sleep a clear head when I Needed it the most!! I spent less than $100 on all the encasements and Only $10 on the ORTHO so yea I will keep using it !!I have not decided to even use a PCO yet an I may never Who knows what the future holds!! I don’t ~~do you!! All I know is the ORTHO kicked a** when I needed it~~ clean body Clear head~~

  20. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Oct 9 2009 1:33:26
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    watkins,

    If you want to talk about why you think everyone should use ORTHO HOME DEFENSE, please go to the "Finally" thread.

  21. watkinsnewan

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    Fri Oct 9 2009 8:28:43
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    Can anyone tell me which ones are which this is what I have found so far!! just the basics!! like wherecan it be applied , when can it be applyed, why dangerous!! Can I get it! I really need it in layman’s terms!! Which ones r contact killers which ones r residual killers!! Layman’s terms Please~~

    DDVP-=comes in strips !! Still don’t know what this is ,but I do know it comes in strips from Places like Home depo Use anywhere pets an kids Aren’t!!

    DD=Drione Dust.:is almost same as PYGANIC made as gel ,goes on the outside of houes in cracks en craves not sure if you need protective gear to use this!!

    DE= lots of different typs: never spread the stuff your self unless you get all necessary equipment. Use it in cracks and crevasse inside home~~ never in window seals or on furniture or where my baby can get to it! Will kill some vacuums an humans

    I hear you nobugs but witch one is the ortho contact or residual or contact l!!
    please add as you see fit I am ignorant in this subject!! I know I am leaving out a lot of stuff!! Remember just the basics!!

  22. buggyinsocal

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Oct 9 2009 12:28:29
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    If you need information about the chemicals and dusts you plan to use in layperson's terms, and if you're having trouble telling from reading labels whether something is a residual or contact killer, that suggests to me that you're not a good candidate for self-treatment.

    Safely and effectively doing self-treatment requires the person doing it to be able to read and understand labels and MSDS sheets.

    Based on what you said, my opinion is that it would be a lot safer for you and your family if you spent your time looking for a good PCO. I know that the good ol' boy attitude in the Deep South can feel like it's everywhere, but somewhere there must be a PCO who practices IGM (integrated pest management). (I spent 13 years of my life in the Deep South; I know what it's like from personal experience.) If there isn't one locally, check the closest big city or university town, which tend to have a large enough liberal population that someone will have figured out there is money to be made in pest control with a greener bent. In addition, due to the difficult nature of bed bugs as a pest, sometimes experienced bed bug PCOs will travel a fair distance if there are no bed bug experts near a sufferer.

    Ortho is a residual killer. I don't know the specific time length it is effective for since I didn't have chemical treatment as the centerpiece of my bed bug approach.

    The hazards of using DDVP strips are much greater than you describe above; I say that as someone who used them. DDVP strips offgas a chemical than can only be used in unoccupied structures.

    Some people have been using them in an off label way (off label: using a chemical pesticide in a way that is not approved by the people who test the chemical for safety. Off label uses tend to be much more potentially dangerous.) The DDVP strips provide a chemical fumigant as a gas, and it's a chemical fumigant that cannot be used at all inside occupied structures, not just where people, pets, and kids are. The fact that your last post doesn't make that distinction is also proof to me that you're a very poor candidate for self-treatment.

    DE is a residual killer that is not chemical but works mechanically. Its sharp edges break down the exoskeleton of the bugs so that they die, but in household applications, it can take up to ten days to kill. Keep in mind that it is a significant inhalation hazard. It can be inhaled into the lungs and cause silicosis, which is a condition that has no medical treatment. Once you get silicosis, you have it for life. DE can be a very effective tool in the war on bed bugs, but for safety's sake, should only be applied in places where it won't be disturbed and inhaled, and the proper personal protective equipment (including an N95 respirator) must be used while it is applied..

    Again, if you need the contact vs. residual status of chemicals that are relatively easy to research explained in "just the basics," that fact screams to me that you're a very poor candidate for self-treatment, since successful and safe self-treatment means basically giving yourself a do it yourself degree in pest control. If you're having trouble reading and understanding the labels, I would think getting to the level of knowledge needed to self treat successfully and safely would be impossible.

    I don't say that to discourage you; I say that to steer you toward the safest and most effective option for you and your family. Call the PCOs in the big cities and closest university towns and look for a PCO who does IGR if you're sincerely concerned about the chemicals that a PCO may apply in your home. Your post suggests that you don't have the science or technical background to be any safer doing self-treatment than the PCOs you're afraid of using chemicals willy nilly.

  23. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Oct 9 2009 14:17:36
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    couldn’t of said it better myself!! I am not a good candidate to self treat with the big pesticides Lets see if I got this right!!

    Contact killer: goes directly on the bug!!
    Residual killer: what they place for the bug to cross over!!
    Correct me if I am wrong!! PLEASE

    Should the PCO use both or just one?
    Is one better and safer than the other?
    R there any other chemicals I should or should not let them put in my home?

    Knowing the go ol boy statement you know that when a woman starts asking questions the good ol boys just look at her, pat her on the head and shoo her off!! All the while telling her things like “DE is safe to inhale who ever told you that is an complete idiot!! don’t worry about the kids I would never tell you to do anything that would hurt them!!” ~~Right~~ So DDVT not Allowed in my home!! 1 ruled out
    DE: I may let a pro put it in my attic an under my house not in the house!!
    I am on the third PCO and still have not gotten a price! !but is has only been 4 days and 3 confirms you have BB I may be too impatient. Or have too many questions!! only seen 1 live bug in over a week yesterday in the encasement when PCO opened it!!so im not panicking yet!!the current treatment is still working!! every 2 to 4 days I spray!!
    ooh nobugs topic gotted to heated for me so you know the ol statement cant stand the heat!!!

  24. Jason1

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Oct 9 2009 16:30:28
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    Watkins,

    You said you havn't received any estimates from the pco's that have inspected your premises....why is that?
    Just curious why they didn't give you a price/estimate....especially since at least one of them you told us about, found bb's.

    You mentioned the success you're having with the Ortho. Are the bed bug bites, and/or sightings, down considerably?

  25. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Oct 9 2009 16:39:20
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    jason your still freekin awsom I havent had any bites neither has my kids!! I think PCO really don't know what they r doing!! or what they r dealing with here maby they need to do some more studding!!not a big thing here in the south!! Havent see any around my or the kids bed since A day or two after I sprayed !! I still think It was an Awsome IDEA i would have never thunk it up!! (Southern humor)

  26. Jason1

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Oct 9 2009 16:46:55
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    Thanks, lol.

    Not ALL pco's are bad Watkins, I know this as fact. No, I didn't have any success with the ones I used....but their are good ones.

    It's completely up to you what course of action you take. I'm just glad I helped in some way.

    Good luck no matter what you decide. Research and dd can only help!

    watkinsnewan - 4 minutes ago  » 
    jason your still freekin awsom I havent had any bites neither has my kids!! I think PCO really don't know what they r doing!! or what they r dealing with here maby they need to do some more studding!!not a big thing here in the south!! Havent see any around my or the kids bed since A day or two after I sprayed !! I still think It was an Awsome IDEA i would have never thunk it up!! (Southern humor)

  27. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Oct 9 2009 16:49:31
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    ~~~words of encourgement!!!! THANKS!! i think that is what we all need~~~~

  28. Nobugsonme

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    Fri Oct 9 2009 17:04:29
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    Jason1 - 33 minutes ago  » 
    Watkins,
    You said you havn't received any estimates from the pco's that have inspected your premises....why is that?
    Just curious why they didn't give you a price/estimate....especially since at least one of them you told us about, found bb's.
    You mentioned the success you're having with the Ortho. Are the bed bug bites, and/or sightings, down considerably?

    Jason, scroll up.

    I have already asked watkins to take any discussion of ORTHO to the "Finally" thread. That goes doubly for you.

  29. Nobugsonme

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    Fri Oct 9 2009 17:31:21
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    watkinsnewan - 8 hours ago  » 
    Can anyone tell me which ones are which this is what I have found so far!! just the basics!! like wherecan it be applied , when can it be applyed, why dangerous!! Can I get it! I really need it in layman’s terms!! Which ones r contact killers which ones r residual killers!! Layman’s terms ...

    ... I hear you nobugs but witch one is the ortho contact or residual or contact l!!
    please add as you see fit I am ignorant in this subject!! I know I am leaving out a lot of stuff!! Remember just the basics!!

    Hi watkins,

    Ortho has a residual effect. I am not recommending self-treatment with this.

    You can find out more about DE from the FAQ I linked to above.

    You can find out more about DDVP by clicking the DDVP tag at top right.

    If it seems like there's nowhere on the site that gives you detailed step-by-step instructions for doing your own pest control (outside of suggestions on where to begin with steam and with DE), this is intentional. See this FAQ.

    No one here should be giving DIY advice -- especially those who are not qualified to do so. (Those who are qualified probably think better of giving pesticide how-to advice to strangers over the internet.) Imitating someone else's treatment plan is at your own risk.

  30. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Oct 10 2009 19:06:52
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    Nobugs I really dont think I am qualified to do this step by step What I really want to know is what the PCO"S step by step is going to be and what chemicals r okay and which ones arn't (southern humor I know) I am in the boondocks they are 1-5 years BEHIND everyone else!! I have expanded my search!! No luck so far but I am hopefull I will suceed!! oh yea I take FULL RESPONSIBALITY for what I am doing just to give you peace of mind!! It is my job to protect the kids and I am taking all precautions mask gloves and lots and lots of fresh air, hepa filter in the kids rooms too from before we knew we had BB!! found two adults in washer today DEAD!!I think I have caught up on my sleep now my head is clearer!!

  31. Nobugsonme

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    Sun Oct 11 2009 1:53:30
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    watkinsnewan - 6 hours ago  » 
    Nobugs I really dont think I am qualified to do this step by step What I really want to know is what the PCO"S step by step is going to be and what chemicals r okay and which ones arn't (southern humor I know) I am in the boondocks they are 1-5 years BEHIND everyone else!! I have expanded my search!! No luck so far but I am hopefull I will suceed!! oh yea I take FULL RESPONSIBALITY for what I am doing just to give you peace of mind!! It is my job to protect the kids and I am taking all precautions mask gloves and lots and lots of fresh air, hepa filter in the kids rooms too from before we knew we had BB!!

    HI watkins,

    I don't want to veer off-topic, but you said in the "Finally" thread that you're spraying ORTHO every two days. This may not be safe. It certainly is an off-label use. Keep in mind also it may affect your bed bugs in a way that makes it harder for the PCO to treat, not easier. For example, if there is a repellent effect, they may be driven deeper into hiding. Your PCO may be pissed off and may have to work harder (and make more costly visits) because you are self-treating before hiring one.

    My understanding is that licensed pest control firms will have to follow the law and use products labeled for bed bugs. An experienced, knowledgeable firm (I am assuming you are in a country that licenses pest control operators) should know how to do this safely better than you would know how to do it safely.

    The products used vary a GREAT deal from one PCO to the next, so no one can tell you the best method. PCOs may use one of a number of residuals and some will use a dust. They may or may not need a contact killer (for example, if bed bugs are visibly present). Some will use steam before applying other materials. Some will caulk and seal your cracks after treatment.

    Thermal treatment, or gas treatment (such as Vikane - sulfuryl fluoride, if you are not in a multi-unit building), are really good methods if the price is right. They're not for every situation. If I were you, concerned about family safety and wanting this gone TODAY, I would at least look into those services, keeping in mind a PCO that uses sprays and dusts may have to return a number of times and keep charging you.

    Don't assume the pest firms are bad in your area. But do look at the FAQ on choosing a PCO, and call at least three and ask them, in detail, what they do for bed bugs. You can then post it here and some of the PCOs may comment on it.

    Also, call PCOs in the nearest large city. If they do not service your area, they may be able to recommend someone good who does.

  32. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Oct 11 2009 9:19:51
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    Vikane - sulfuryl fluoride I have seen those word thrown aroung this site an others Dont know what it is wii have to check it out!! When I told one PCO I was self treating he asked if it was working I said so far he didn't say to stop!!but when he caught the lil bugger he had to take it to his truck and I think (not sure) verify it was in fact BB!! I hope I can find a company who will do a thermo treatment on my home!! so far it sounds like the best way!! I really dont see why they Havent invented a bug bomb that acutially works!!That would be so much easier!!

  33. buggyinsocal

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Oct 11 2009 12:44:35
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    They haven't invented a bug bomb that works for bed bugs because the physiology of the bugs makes them very hard to treat.

    Roach sprays work because roaches cross the residuals and pick some of the chemical up. When the roaches later groom themselves, they ingest the chemical. Bed bugs don't groom themselves, so that method is out.

    Ant treatments often work by baiting the ants--that is a toxic chemical is mixed with something that the ants will eat and/or bring back to the colony. Since bed bugs only consume mammalian blood, anything that would poison their food source would poison us.

    Bed bugs, unlike, say silverfish, are constructed so that unless they have a blood meal in their big distended bug bellies (thorax? I used to know what it was called), don't come in much contact with the surfaces that they walk across because of the way that they are constructed, so a lot of the residual chemicals that work well on other bugs don't work on bed bugs or require multiple contacts to be effective.

    In addition, although those of us who suffer from them think of bed bugs as a big deal, they are still a very small part of the overall pest industry, and so far it hasn't seemed profitable to many companies to invest in R & D for bed bugs.

    Vikane may well be available in your area; it's a chemical fumigant used to kill termites in structures. If you've ever seen a building tented for termites, chances are they're using Vikane, which is the trademarked name for Dow's sulfuryl fluoride. Treatment for bed bugs involves using 3x the concentration that is typically used for termites. All living creatures need to be out of the house during the treatment, which generally takes a few days. Vikane, when done properly, will kill all eggs and bugs in all stages of life. It cannot be used when the temperature gets too low (below 40 degrees, I think) so structures cannot be treated in the winter in many places; however, some companies offer Vikane pod or chamber fumigation which is where your moving truck or belongings are treated with Vikane instead of your whole single family home.

    If you're in the South, I would guess (just a guess) that Vikane would be more widely available than thermal. but I'm happy to be proved wrong if there are providers I don't yet know about.

  34. watkinsnewan

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Oct 11 2009 13:41:41
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    termite control is big around here I have seen buildings and homes tented it definattly somthing I am going to look in to!!


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