Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » General Topics
[It's 18 months.] Can I have my books back please?
(15 posts)-
SilverClaerity
newbite
Joined: Nov '10
Posts: 5offline
Posted 1 year ago
Tue Mar 13 2012 11:07:16
#
Login to Send PM
Sometime last September 2010, I moved away from the share-house I was renting a room in due to a bed bug infestation. I wasn't there for long, maybe 1.5 months. I packaged everything up, most if it in plastic bags which reside in the basement or in the garage (so half of my stuff has been exposed to 2 winters, if that makes a difference).
I have approximately $400~ worth of books and Japanese study materials that I bought prior to moving to that share-house. It's been just about 18 months, I'm starting university soon, and this whole episode completely derailed my studies. I really need to get back on track.. but of course, I'm paranoid.
Do you think it'd be safe to open my things up? Any eggs should've hatched, nymphs should be dead by now.. and finally, the adults should be dead too, right?
Please tell me I can have my books back.. =S
Moderator: Edited title -
your host
Joined: Mar '07
Posts: 13,697online
Posted 1 year ago
Wed Mar 14 2012 0:46:46
#
Login to Send PM
Were your books sealed in an airtight manner in bags with no tears or rips?
If so, experts tell us they should not have survived for more than 18 months.
(The key there is not being sealed in a bag per se, but being prevented from feeding on blood, which MIGHT happen in a storage situation, if they were not sealed in. It doesn't have to be human blood.)
-
SilverClaerity
newbite
Joined: Nov '10
Posts: 5offline
Posted 1 year ago
Sat Mar 24 2012 12:55:46
#
Login to Send PM
The ones in the basement are airtight, I believe. If they weren't airtight, then shouldn't the bugs have spread throughout the house?
I'm concerned about the ones in storage, as they are not in containers that are completely airtight. They are closed, but nothing "lives" in our garage persay.. (they're on a shelf up high) Is that good enough..?
It was outside for all of last winter (which was bitterly cold) and this winter (which was mild). The eggs should have died by now, and wouldn't they try to migrate back to the house if they were still around? =S
-
your host
Joined: Mar '07
Posts: 13,697online
Posted 1 year ago
Sat Mar 24 2012 21:24:44
#
Login to Send PM
SilverClaerity - 8 hours ago »
The ones in the basement are airtight, I believe. If they weren't airtight, then shouldn't the bugs have spread throughout the house?
I'm concerned about the ones in storage, as they are not in containers that are completely airtight. They are closed, but nothing "lives" in our garage persay.. (they're on a shelf up high) Is that good enough..?
It was outside for all of last winter (which was bitterly cold) and this winter (which was mild). The eggs should have died by now, and wouldn't they try to migrate back to the house if they were still around? =SI am sorry but I am not sure I can say much that will be of help. I understand that bed bugs completely prevented from feeding would be dead in 18 months, but I am not sure if that's the case here (for example, a mouse or squirrel would be sufficient).
I also know that you can't really rely on the cold unless you know what temperatures were reached at the center of the items and for how long. If the stuff was packed in a container there is insulation there. Put it in an unheated shed, more insulation. You'd need to know for a fact that the temperature in the center of the items was maintained at a cold-enough temperature for long enough. It may well be the case, but I don't know enough to say this.
If you don't want to take any risks, then you would need to treat the items in such a way that you could ensure there are no living bed bugs and eggs inside the containers. A Packtite is an option, putting a moving truck or container through professional heat treatment or Vikane gas treatment is a costlier option but many things could be treated at once, as could larger items.
Some people would recommend DDVP (eg Nuvan strips), but it's a highly deadly gas and so there are dangers involved and beyond telling you to follow labeling instructions, most people here including me aren't qualified to advise you on that.
I hope that helps.
-
cilecto
oldtimer
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 3,851offline
Posted 1 year ago
Sat Mar 24 2012 23:30:38
#
Login to Send PM
Picking up from NoBugs. Paperbacks are relatively easy to inspect: Surfaces, edges, creases, dog-ears. Anything between the pages can be destroyed by compressing the book. Hardbacks are more elaborate, therefore trickier.
-
SilverClaerity
newbite
Joined: Nov '10
Posts: 5offline
Posted 1 year ago
Sun Mar 25 2012 11:18:08
#
Login to Send PM
@ Nobugs: Arg.. I hadn't thought about the insulation the containers and garage would provide. Good to consider. I'm broke right now, and definitely cannot afford a packtite or gas treatment..
@cilecto: I wonder if carefully inspecting them outside would be good enough? I always worry about them hiding in that tiny hole between the cover and paper on the spine. There's just so many books! I hadn't thought about compression.. I wonder if a few 8lb weights on top of each book would do it?
-
cilecto
oldtimer
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 3,851offline
Posted 1 year ago
Sun Mar 25 2012 18:11:39
#
Login to Send PM
Silver: I'm not an expert, but here's my take:
- Compression: Put paperback between two boards (or hard covers) and stand on the pile. Don't forget to inspect as above.
- Hardbacks: Biggest risk is in the spine area. Perhaps, working on a white surface, with good light, open the book as far as you can and look down the hollow. Use a blow dryer on high heat/low fan in the spine and watch for annoyed bugs. Also note where the cover overlaps the papers inside and (for some hardbacks) edges that are not uniform.
- Get comfortable with identifying bed bugs and eggs at all stages, as well as fecal marks.Your risks are mitigated by the following:
- In non advanced infestations, BB stay near the bed and seating areas, they're not "in everything".
- Any bugs in the books were likely not fed and likely dead after 3-6 months.
- Your inspection on reclaiming them. -
SilverClaerity
newbite
Joined: Nov '10
Posts: 5offline
Posted 1 year ago
Tue Mar 27 2012 14:40:41
#
Login to Send PM
Thanks for the great suggestions! I'll definitely try them.
-
oldtimer
Joined: May '07
Posts: 1,969offline
Posted 1 year ago
Tue Mar 27 2012 18:12:09
#
Login to Send PM
Temperature and feeding opportunities are the two main factors that determine a bed bugs lifespan... Recent studies at Virginia Tech found that once fed bed bugs captured from the field died within 90 days at 79 degrees F... Laboratory bed bugs died within 130 days at the same temperature.
The studies that reported an 18 month once fed life span were conducted in the late 30s and early 40s at 50 degrees F... Modern researchers that have tried to reproduce the conditions from the older studies are finding that modern bed bugs do not seem to be as resilient as the bugs that were tested seventy years ago... The V Tech team theorizes that pesticide resistant bed bugs may have shorter lifespans due to some of the physical changes that allow them to detoxify pesticides.
I have not seen any modern studies that have observed once fed bed bugs surviving more than 12 months in the lab.
Bottom line: It is safe to bring home any books or items that have been effectively isolated for 18 months.
You could try a reliable K9 team or utilize an active CO2 producing monitor like the Bed Bug Beacon. if you are looking for additional assurance or peace of mind
Even at ideal temps... It is highly likely that any live bed bugs that once existed would be long dead by now... If they remained unfed
Enjoy your books and artwork!
-
your host
Joined: Mar '07
Posts: 13,697online
Posted 1 year ago
Wed Mar 28 2012 2:08:25
#
Login to Send PM
Hi Doug,
I think the issue is we're not sure the items were all 100% "isolated." -
oldtimer
Joined: May '07
Posts: 1,969offline
Posted 1 year ago
Wed Mar 28 2012 7:25:12
#
Login to Send PM
I agree fully.... If any bugs were able to access a warm blooded alternative host it is possible that a colony could survive being placed in storage.
I am pointing out that any items that were effectively sealed up for 18 months are safe to bring back into the residence.
The items that were not effectively isolated offer the only potential risk of providing a survivable refuge... if an established colony had access to a suitable host animal for blood meals
I suspect that the probability of 18 months of bed bug survival in the contents are still low... if the bed bugs and potential host animals were subject to extreme low temps for a prolonged period of time during the first winter or hot temps during the summer months.
A squirrel that is frozen solid can't provide a blood meal for a bed bug.
Bed bugs are extremely hardy organisms, but the description of the environmental conditions really does not sound favorable for bed bug development... We can't rule out survival with total certainty, but I suspect that the odds are really low.
Placing active monitors in the storage locations or utilizing a reliable K9 team could provide an additional level of screening to supplement the visual inspection.
My main point is that recent studies on unfed survival support the conclusion that 18 months of storage appears to be overkill... I was looking to provide some reassurance that there is good science to demonstrate that 18 months should be sufficient to eradicate any live activity in the isolated contents.
-
your host
Joined: Mar '07
Posts: 13,697online
Posted 1 year ago
Fri Mar 30 2012 0:05:07
#
Login to Send PM
Thanks, Doug!
-
tiredofbb
newbite
Joined: Sep '11
Posts: 17offline
Posted 1 year ago
Fri Mar 30 2012 10:41:25
#
Login to Send PM
What are the chances of success in leaving car sit for 12 months, instead of 18? House?
Instead of figuring out a way to treat my car, I haven't driven it since the first week of December 2011. Ever since then I've been taking the bus. This research is encouraging because I was actually going to let it sit for 18 months knowing there are lots of hiding spots to hibernate in and live longer. Temps have been cold but are starting to warm up as Spring arrives. So far it's been about 115 days. But, now perhaps I could wait a total of 12 months (6 more months/240 more days).
We've also discussed moving out of our house for 1 1/2 yrs, leaving the heat at 75 -80 deg. and then come back hoping they all died in the meantime. Now perhaps we could stay away for 12 months instead. Wish someone could do an experiment of survival rates in houses and cars.
-
cilecto
oldtimer
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 3,851offline
Posted 1 year ago
Fri Mar 30 2012 14:50:20
#
Login to Send PM
How much does it cost to leave a home unusable for a year (and using an alternate place)?
Same question for car.
Will you take absolutely nothing with you to your temporary home in order not to end up with two infestations? If so, factor in cost of replacement items. -
oldtimer
Joined: May '07
Posts: 1,969offline
Posted 1 year ago
Fri Mar 30 2012 15:42:31
#
Login to Send PM
Cilecto raises the key issue... It may be cheaper to treat your house and car compared to the cost of abandoning them for months.
You can typically have a vehicle fumigated with 3x treatment of Vikane gas for less than $500. in most markets... Heat treatment is available for a similar cost.
Costs for storage, and alternative transportation could easily exceed the cost of an effective treatment that would safely make your vehicle available in less than 48 hours.
The cost of treating a single family house can vary dramatically from market to market... In Florida an average single family house can be fumigated with Vikane for less than $3000. but this price may be up to10x higher in other states... Heat is often competitive in price... Chemical treatment usually much less.
I would imagine that the cost of maintaining a second residence would exceed these figures in all but the most expensive pest control markets.
Also keep in mind that a temperature range of 75-80 degrees F is ideal for bed bug development
Bed bug development flatlines at 97 d F.... A 97 degree temp also reduces the unfed lifespan to an average of about 35 days or less based on the older research findings that were run at 37 degrees Celsius (97d F)
Reply
You must log in to post.
