Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Tools/ideas for fighting bed bugs
Bring a BB Dog to DC-MD-VA?????
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pleasehelp
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Posted 5 years ago
Mon Nov 5 2007 14:45:11
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Hi, I'm in the DC area (Northern Virginia). I'd love to hire a bed bug dog, but there isn't one working here yet, and the cost to bring one for just one job is prohibitive. I'm hoping to find individuals or hotel owners in this area who would be interested in cooperating and sharing the travel expenses for a dog and handler...
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paulaw0919
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Posted 5 years ago
Mon Nov 5 2007 15:49:53
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Hi pleasehelp. I had a bad infestation and it took a long time to rid. Originally I brought in a K9 after 4 treatments and it picked up hot spots EVERYWHERE in the house. The handler told me it would pick up sent on live bugs, dead bugs, cast skins and even poop. So all that did was make me panick an know where the bugs "were" or may still "be"
You need to find a K9 that is trained on only LIVE bugs as to not get a reading as such.
I did find a K9 team from Specialized Pet Detection. It did cost a small fortune I will say. But they are based out of NC and I am in NJ. What the handler did do was inspect a few of my families homes as well to ensure it was safe to see them as well.
He used a two dog team.
The basis of a two dog team is that if one dog finds a possible "hot spot" then the other dog is brought in after to confirm that.
The handler was very nice and professional. He brought in live contained bugs and hid them in the house for the dogs to do a test run and get the sent they need.
Alot of this depends on the team of the dog and handler persay....
To read up some detail on how it works I would read up on Cooper Site on the section of K9 bedbug dogs...his site now has something on that for it's always being updated.
There are basically a few things that can happen.
1: both dogs show positive on spots, you know where the bugs are and can focus on those areas
2: Both dogs give an all clear and you are bug free.
3: One dog shows a positive and the other shows an all clear.
Well, this is what happened to me. Both dogs came in one at a time. First K9 showed a sign in two spots but the other K9 did not. BUT during the test the dogs signed very heavily and it was hard for the handler to pull the dog away. This was not so in the case on where one dog signed. The handler was able to pull the dog away.
This did leave me a little leary but the handler had thought it was a "false positive" from the dog in order to recieve the reward/treat. He said he didn't think I had bedbugs and if he did he would offer to call my PCO and speak to them about course of action. This K9 team is not from our area and would not be able to treat our home anyway.
But as in case #3, you must then make a decision on to trust the "team" of the dog and handler together for the handler knows the dog best....or to trust based on the sign of the dog alone.
For me, yes I still feel a bit worried at times because all I've gone thru. BUT he did put my mind at great ease for I didn't have bugs all over the house still like I thought. My family that is closest to me all came in the clear which takes alot off my shoulders that I can one day see them again when I am ready. (haven't seen anyone since April)
I feel a K9 that scents only live bugs is a very very useful tool. I hope to get one in our area (I believe there may be one now)
I think after an infestation it would be good to have a K9 come in to confirm they are gone. I plan on getting a follow up in a few months to reassure myself that they are gone. and then maybe once more after that. (depending on costs and what our finances allow) If I was able to afford to bring back the same company I or lived more local to be able to do so I would.
I just thought it would be good that out of fear you don't hire a company like I did the first time and for you to think it's always a very clear black/white result. But right now it's much more than we had years ago and it's as close to perfect we're gonna get when it comes down to an insect that can hide so well.
Pleasehelp, if you have any questions or want to PM me you may. -
pleasehelp
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Posted 5 years ago
Mon Nov 5 2007 18:47:24
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Paula, Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I have to leave for the evening soon, but I'll PM you tomorrow.
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oldtimer
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Posted 5 years ago
Mon Nov 5 2007 19:49:00
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Paula
Thank you for sharing the details of your experiences with K9 assisted bed bug inspections.
Your experience highlights some of the issues that can occur with a K9 inspection. The first question is: Are we utilizing the dog alerts for screening or for confirmation?
If we are utilizing the dog alerts for confirmation, then having one dog give a false positive alert while the other dog clears the same area is evidence of a serious problem. Clearly one of the dogs is wrong about identifying the presence of live bed bugs.
In this case the use of a two dog strategy for confirmation of live bed bugs failed to provide a clear answer.
If we are using the dog alerts for screening purposes, then a positive alert should identify a well defined location for the handler or PCO to search for visual confirmation of the presence of live bed bugs or eggs.
In most states a visual confirmation of the pest must be made before treatment may proceed to comply with label requirements and state law.
Research performed by the University of Florida on J&K trained dogs has demonstrated high rates of false positives with K9s that were trained to identify live termites only (25% false alerts). Results of recent preliminary studies by the University of Florida on J&K K9s trained to identify live bed bugs were also disappointing.
I had speculated that the reason Cooper recommended utilizing a two dog strategy was due to false alerts. Having one dog alert in the exact same location that the other dog has cleared creates a tremendous dilemma for the handler, if a visual confirmation is unavailable. This demonstrates the problem with relying on a dog alert for confirmation without obtaining visual evidence.
Getting a visual confirmation can be extremely difficult even when you know exactly where to look. In the world of drug and bomb K9s, an alert on a scent is always followed with a laboratory examination of the evidence before a court will uphold the arrest based on the K9 alert.
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pleasehelp
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 6 2007 10:54:25
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Hi Paula & Doug, Thanks so much for your help! I haven't been able to see any bugs yet, nor cast skins, nor fecal specks. But I'm sure I have bbs, because of months of typical bites & corresponding blood spots on my underwear (<-- only once, 2 days ago). I have a severe clutter issue in my house, so I'm hoping a dog will find the harborage(s). I did closely inspect my (2nd floor) bed and found only carpet beetle larvae. Then I vacuumed it and sprayed with Ster-Fab. A 2nd PCO is coming in 2 days to check again. My last bites (with blood spots) I got while not in bed, (on the 1st floor) so I bagged up my recliner & computer chair & put them outside. I looked at them but couldn't find any signs - maybe the PCO will. NEway, I think a dog would be helpful in my case since I've done minimal treatment.
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Thank you for the opportunity to provide intelligent, educated opinions on this significant epidemic, which is currently affecting so many people around the world. My name is Pepe Peruyero and I own J & K Canine Academy Inc., also known as Pepedogs. Although many of these post are brought to my attention by friends and associates around the country I do not post to avoid engaging in any non productive he said she said conversations. I started my company in 1996 and have dedicated my Entomology Scent Detection Division to providing the highest standard in the industry. We pride ourselves in working with some of the top people in the Pest Control Industry as well as Academic
Leaders throughout the county. Our company, programs, dogs, and our research has always been transparent when publishing our termite research, our training program had to be provided as part of the scientific data. Unfortunately throughout the years people have seen the need to down play and in some cases even criticize my dedication to scientific research. Information such as was posted by Mr. Summers is data taken out of context. During the initial research project the very first dog we tested was trained using the industry training standard which resulted in a high false alert percentage. Through the research, and advanced training techniques we were able to reduce that false alert to less than 4 percent. We can go back and fourth and discuss numbers as two competitors attempting to sway your opinion on which dogs are better then the others. Instead I would prefer you educate yourself by not taking Mr. Summers or my word as the gospel. Therefore I have posted a pdf. file of the Termite research, with the approval of Dr. Faith Oi from the University of Florida, so that everyone may review the program and data. I would also invite Mr. Summers to provide and post any research data, or information, by an independent testing source on the performance, proficiency and / or reliability of his dogs so that the consumer can make an educated decision.As for Mr. Copper, my recommendation would be to forget about speculation and contact him directly at Cooper Pest Control, cooperpest.com.
If anyone is interested in contacting me directly regarding this post or other related topics, they may do so by going to my website or e-mail to admin@jkk9.com. You may also contact Margie Pfiester at the University of Florida Entomology Lab, insects@ufl.edu to obtain accurate data involving the latest research on bed bug detection dogs.
Here is the link to the termite research conducted.
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Posted 5 years ago
Wed Nov 7 2007 1:28:20
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This is just the abstract to the PDF linked to above:
Ability of Canine Termite Detectors to Locate Live Termites and Discriminate Them from Non-Termite Material
SHAWN E. BROOKS, FAITH M. OI, AND PHILIP G. KOEHLER1
Department of Entomology and Nematology, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
J. Econ. Entomol.
96(4): 1259-1266 (2003)ABSTRACT Dogs were trained to detect Eastern subterranean termites, Reticulitermes flavipes
(Kollar), using the United States Customs method of scent detection dog training modified with a food reward. Dogs were tested with various numbers of Eastern subterranean termites placed in vented
PVC containers. Trained dogs were 95.93% accurate in finding greater than or equal to (can't do symbol!) 40 Eastern subterranean termite
workers (positive indications) and incorrectly indicated the presence of termites in 2.69% of the
containers without termites. Multiple species of termites [dark southern subterranean, R. virginicus (Banks); Formosan subterranean, Coptotermes formosanus Shiraki; powderpost, Cryptotermes cavifrons Banks; and southeastern drywood termites, Incisitermes snyderi (Light)], were similarly evaluated. Dogs trained to locate Eastern subterranean termites were also 100% accurate in finding dark southern subterranean termites, 98.89% accurate in finding Formosan subterranean termites, 97.33% accurate in finding powderpost termites, and 88.89% accurate in finding southeastern drywood termites. Dogs were able to discriminate live termites from non-termite material. Trained dogs' false
response rate was 25.33% to Eastern subterranean termite-damaged wood, 6.67% to American
cockroaches, Periplaneta americana (L.), and 2.67% to Florida carpenter ants, Camponotus floridanus
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Posted 5 years ago
Wed Nov 7 2007 5:03:41
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Pepe
I apologize if you feel that I misrepresented Dr Oi's research. I was genuinely disappointed to hear that there was a problem during the evaluation with Dr. Oi that was reported at Pest World. I fully expected to hear that your K9 teams had aced the evaluation.
I do not wish to quibble about research statistics nor do I have any "he said she said" issues to discuss.
Why don't we just have an intelligent scientific dialogue about the merits of using a two dog approach for the confirmation of the presence of viable bed bugs & eggs?
What conclusions should be drawn if one dog repeatedly alerts in the exact same location that is repeatedly cleared by the second K9?
If false positives are not a problem, then why do you recommend the use of a second K9 to confirm the first K9s work?
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dawnsimonds2
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Posted 5 years ago
Wed Nov 7 2007 11:09:34
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Doug,
If I may ask what, specifically, was the problem with Dr. Oi's research that was presented at PestWorld?
Best,
Dawn -
J & K Canine Academy Inc. promotes the use of two dogs for the consumer, who is expecting a search on the scheduled date and time, and company who is scheduling searches for specific dates and times. All dog trainers know that dogs have days they don't work due to illness etc. and dog owners know there are days their dogs just don't act the same. There is no difference between the two, the dog is not at their best. Having a second dog confirm an alert is an option but it's the company's choice how they set up their protocol and not due to false positive rates. As a side note we are conducting research that involves this method to reveal whether it is effective or not. Most companies purchase the number of dogs needed in relation to the size of their business, searches they conduct, and to ensure those jobs are completed on time and the day/s scheduled
My company is completely transparent and I have presented to everyone on this forum and abroad scientific research data, that is published, regarding the accuracy of the dogs trained by me. If the publication is read entirely, and not segmented, it clearly shows the dogs have a less then 4 percent false positive.
I would again invite you to share the research involving your dogs so that we may engage in "intelligent scientific dialog" to better serve everyone on this forum and across the country dealing with this epidemic.
Due to past experience, this will be my last post. As stated before, everyone is more than welcome to contact me relating to anything about my company and the dogs we train here or admin@jkk9.com.
Thanks, Pepe
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Posted 5 years ago
Wed Nov 7 2007 12:06:44
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Dawn
The problem I referred to concerned the performance of the first K9 team during Dr. Oi's evaluation.
Pepe described the problem in his post;” During the initial research project the very first dog we tested was trained using the industry training standard which resulted in a high false alert percentage."
Dr. Oi listed a number of reasons at the conference to explain why the "Dog A" K9 team failed to identify the live bed bug targets during the first trial. Dr. Oi stated that the temperature in the training room was 64 degrees, a heating system was in use and that the dog handler was newly trained & inexperienced. She said that Pepe was able to work the same dog successfully in a later trial.
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Posted 5 years ago
Wed Nov 7 2007 14:13:59
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Pepe,
I am glad you are participating, but I am sorry you say it will be your last post. The forums do appear to help a lot of people, I am told, and the presence of bed bug professionals with a variety of viewpoints is always welcomed, as is civil discussion and disagreement. I do think it is best for people to provide data for any assertions made, where possible.
As a side note, in pasting the abstract in above (in its entirety) I was not trying to mislead anyone nor to respond to statements made by you or Doug. I simply realize that not everyone here will wish to (or be able to) download the full PDF and read it, and an abstract is used by the scientific community to convey findings succinctly.
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pleasehelp
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Posted 5 years ago
Wed Nov 7 2007 16:58:38
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Thanks for your comment Nobugsonme, I'm sure I'm not the only potential bedbug dog customer here who wants to hear from the pros and appreciate the time it takes to post... Those who explaining & share their expertise get a star in my book... Oh and thanks too NBOM for the abstract. PDF's sometimes lock up my computer.
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Posted 5 years ago
Mon Nov 12 2007 22:19:04
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Because I have received a personal email from a bed bug dog service provider expressing concern, I want to clarify that Bedbugger is not taking a side for or against any bed bug dog businesses.
Consumer users are free to share the details of their own experiences (as Paula did in the start of this thread). Providers are free to share any factual information they like (linking out to articles is an example), and to ask one another civil questions. However, It is really important that we keep this website focused on the needs of consumers for information.
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your host
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Posted 5 years ago
Mon Nov 12 2007 22:23:00
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I ask all bed bug dog professionals (and other bed bug professionals) to read the "Warning" under the green stickies at the top of the main forums page, which has just been updated:
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Margie Pfiester
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 11:05:13
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My name is Margie Pfiester and I am a graduate student at The University of Florida’s Entomology Department under Dr. Philip Koehler. For about the past ten years, the entomology department has worked to evaluate insect-detection dogs and has helped to improve training programs. We are recognized worldwide as the leaders in entomology canine scent-detection. The evaluation program has been open to anyone who would like to participate.
I am the graduate student performing the canine bed bug detection research. We are extremely excited about the ability of the dogs to locate live bed bugs and viable bed bug eggs. These results are far from disappointing. Our manuscript is being prepared now, and the results will be available for everyone soon, demonstrating that dogs are efficient bed bug detectors.
Statements that dogs are incorrectly identifying the presence of insects are taken out of context. The original publication was about canine termite detection. We found that a dog indicated the presence of live termites, even when they were not present if the dog was trained on termite damaged wood infested with termites. As a result, the other dogs were trained only on live termites and were able to differentiate live termites from termite-damaged wood. This information demonstrates the necessity of training dogs specifically for the scent of interest. In the case of J & K Canine Academy, they require their dogs to differentiate live bed bugs and termites from the scent of materials that could represent previous infestations and other household pests.
At this point we have only been able to evaluate dogs trained at J & K Canine Academy. Other trainers (e.g. Florida Canine Academy) have been invited many times to participate in our research and have refused to cooperate with us. Their refusals not only limit the scientific community but also limit the consumer’s ability to make informed choices for canine insect detection.
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Anonymous
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 11:26:35
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Their refusals not only limit the scientific community but also limit the consumer’s ability to make informed choices for canine insect detection.
Please stop politicizing this forum!
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Margie Pfiester
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 12:23:10
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Hopelessnomo,
Thank you for your post. I apologize if you feel that I was politicizing this forum for that was not my intention. The point of my post was only to say that I have done canine bed bug detection research and that the results are very exciting. I have facts for people that want facts. Everyone has been talking about the research being done at the University of Florida, and I felt it was time to step forward about it. If anyone would like to hear about the research being done they can feel free to contact me at insects@ufl.edu.
I hope that the facts can help people make an educated decision about whether or not canine bed bug detection is a useful tool. I have two colonies of bed bugs at UF, and they are nasty little insects. I have been to infested apartments and have had many discussions with pest control operatives about how difficult it is to control bed bugs. I have heard horror stories from people that have infestations and can't get rid of them. It is not only an expensive problem, but there are many emotional issues that come along with bed bugs. I only want to help. Once again, I apologize, and in the future I will make sure to keep my posts full of helpful facts and not opinions. -
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 14:26:19
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Margie, I am glad you are participating, but I have to agree that it did sound like you were politicizing the forum. Although you are a researcher, and not a business-owner, the following still applies. I am re-posting this for the benefit of all the bed bug dog professionals, as there has been a flurry of activity in the last day or so.
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All Bed Bug professionals, please read the following:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/1146And, though you may have read the above thread when it was originally posted, please take special note of the following, added yesterday (11/12):
I would also ask that professionals remember that the purpose of this website is to share information about bed bugs. Please do not use it as a venue for fighting with other service providers. You may ask questions of other providers, and you may provide information (linked to the source of that information whether it is another part of this website, or an external website). But please do not try to sway public opinion about your business or your competitors except in regards to supported facts.
If you violate these rules, your posts may be deleted at my discretion. Gross disregard for these rules may lead to your being banned. If you have concerns, contact me: nobugs at bedbugger.com.
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newbite
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 15:16:03
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Nobugsonme
I have not posted here in a while and now have decided I should participate again, and much more often, after seeing several posts that are very misleading to the consumer and could possibly hinder their decision. This is a great place and I don't know of another place on the web at this time that offers people as much information about bed bug problems and solutions to those problems as your site does. I am concerned about the politics that I see here and the attempt of competitors to try and discredit one another. I applaud your firm stance against this type of behavior. I do not intend the statement to follow to be any way political. I stand to gain nothing by making it nor does any orginization I am associated with. But a little more fairness about this issue may be warranted.
To All
Let's cut Mr. Peruyero and Margie a little slack. They have really worked hard on a project intended to help with the fight against bed bugs and I think we can all agree that an attempt to thwart their efforts had been made here, by Mr. Summers. It is only fair they be allowed to defend those statements if those statements are allowed to continue to be viewed here. I agree this has gotten out of hand so maybe in the future posts that can be viewed as a challenge or that may need to be defended for the sake of reputation are best handled outside this forum and should be removed.
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Anonymous
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 15:19:01
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Hi Margie,
Thanks.
We are hungry for knowledge!
But we don't want to be an arena for a battle of the canine academies. That's just about money and influence and just makes us feel used. Plus collectively we're way smart around here.
Anyway, I'm sure many here would love to learn more about how dogs are tested and what the challenges are.
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Anonymous
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 15:21:28
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I cross-posted with Mr. Smith. If I had read his message, I would not have posted my own above.
I beg you, bedbug pros everywhere, stop using us!
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your host
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 15:57:23
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I apologize to Margie if she feels like she walked into a minefield. I welcome her presence. I was very clear to Pepe on and off the forums (via PM and email) that I also welcomed his presence. I was alarmed when people emailed me to ask why he was "blocked" and I am not sure where such a rumor came from.
Sam, I was troubled by this statement you made:
"Let's cut Mr. Peruyero and Margie a little slack. They have really worked hard on a project intended to help with the fight against bed bugs and I think we can all agree that an attempt to thwart their efforts had been made here, by Mr. Summers. It is only fair they be allowed to defend those statements if those statements are allowed to continue to be viewed here."
No one has hindered anyone in defending themselves or in correcting erroneous statements.
What I object to, and I assume what hopelessnomo objects to, are statements that appear to be trying to reinforce the rightness and goodness of one faction's practices, and denigrate those of the other. (I am not referring to just this thread now.)
When you, Sam, say, "I think we can all agree that an attempt to thwart their efforts had been made here, by Mr. Summers," I am not really clear how Doug has thwarted the work of the researchers. When Margie says the Florida Canine folks "refused to cooperate," it is not as helpful as a simple statement of what transpired. None of us know the ways in which the Florida folks are alleged to have not cooperated, so from where we readers stand, it does not help further understanding.
You are both welcome to participate here, all we are asking is that you try and share the facts about what happened, without sniping. If talking about others without sniping is impossible, consider not mentioning other individuals at all.
What if we had a discussion about how dogs are trained and what the challenges are (as hopelessnomo suggests), and also the wonderful exciting discoveries that are being made, but *without attacking* other K9 service providers? Would this work?
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Margie Pfiester
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 16:17:08
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Hey everyone,
I am sorry that my post started a disagreement amongst everyone. I do have a lot of information to offer, though, and I hope that people out there are still interested in hearing it. My data shows that it is possible for dogs to be trained to scent live bed bugs (around 97% accuracy). Dogs can be trained to scent live bed bugs as well as viable eggs. They can also be trained to indicate on the bugs and eggs and not indicate on cast skins, feces, or dead bed bugs. That is the short story of my research with canine bed bug detection.I have two bed bug colonies that I rear at UF. I am doing some other behavioral experiments along with the canine bed bug detection experiments. I have made many observations and learned much about their behavior because of this. I have had bed bugs feed on me as well, and it definitely gave me the heebie jeebies, so I can sympathize with everyone out there that just wants some information! Therefore I will say it again, feel free to contact me at insects@ufl.edu for anymore information, whether it be on canine bed bug detection or just bed bugs in general. I will also try to make more posts outside of this forum so that I can spread some general knowledge.
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newbite
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 17:08:15
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Nobugsonme
I was not aware of any rumor that you had blocked anyone from participating here. From what I have seen that is not your style. You seem to me to be neutral minded to everyone (except bed bugs).
Maybe "thwart" was the wrong word. I stand corrected. Play down or misrespresent may be better words.
I guess as I read the posts in this area. It seems to me (emphasis on "to me")that Mr. Summers was allowed to say his peace and when those he spoke about were defending themselves it all of the sudden was a bad thing. I guess the problem is as you said when 1 person makes statements to denegrate others. I think human nature when defending yourself verbally against statements of another, is to try and point out the faults of the other in an attempt to say, that person really has no room to talk. I admit I have been guilty of it here on bedbugger in the recent past. I guess it is just a way of saying put down your rocks "Man in Glass house should not throw rocks". Plus factor in that you really don't know a persons tone when it is in print, which can totally change the way it is meant. Case in point soem what. I could have just PM'd this to you but because it is a public forum I feel the need to explain myself in the same area the statements I am answering too were made.
I like the idea of not mentioning individuals at all if you are presenting information that may need to be defended.
I also like the idea of the discussion of how dogs are trained, However you might not get many trainers to participate because it may give away trade secrets. Not sure, I do not train dogs. but if one says they can train a dog to just detect live and one says they can only train them to detect everything associated with bedbugs (live, cast skins, egss etc.) then there must be a difference in the training.
Margie Pfiester
Thanks in advance to the information you will bring to this cause and the professional manner with which you conduct yourself.
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paulaw0919
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 17:27:29
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Ms Pfiester. I PM'd you.
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 18:28:28
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Sam,
You said, "I guess as I read the posts in this area. It seems to me (emphasis on "to me")that Mr. Summers was allowed to say his peace and when those he spoke about were defending themselves it all of the sudden was a bad thing. I guess the problem is as you said when 1 person makes statements to denegrate others."
Just to be perfectly clear, my comments above were directed at all bed bug professionals. They were not a response to any people in particular (and I hope that is clear when people read them.) They also did not arise only in THIS thread. The back and forth sniping between various bed bug dog factions has occurred on other threads. I am not blaming anyone in particular, and I hope others won't try to either. It takes at least two to tango.
The best way to respond to a perceived inaccuracy in another's comment, in my opinion, is to quote it briefly, and then provide evidence to the contrary--without attacking the other individual or group. And the best evidence you can provide is actual data (where possible). This is what I understood Pepe was trying to do by posting his article of research on termites, since the corresponding dog research is not yet available on paper.
Doug mentioned a research presentation he had attended, and unfortunately, none of us laypeople are able to watch or read about it at this time. Hopefully we will soon.
Finally, we should all consider Paula's original response to pleasehelp's question. Paula is not involved in the training or provision of services, and was relating her experience with a bed bug dog team. She had two experiences: one with a dog trained for bed bugs, skins, etc., the other a team trained for live bugs only. Neither experience was conclusive, because the original team could not discern between live and dead bugs, and the second (two-dog) team gave two different reports.
There are a lot of possibilities with the dogs, but it's a relatively new field, and there are some limitations too, from the consumer's perspective.
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 19:45:36
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I guess the handler of the second dog team to do Paula’s inspection should speak up at this point. Paula received (or should receive shortly, depending on the USPS) from us a written report stating very clearly that there were no signs nor positive alerts in her structure to the presence of bedbugs. We as company policy allow customers to view any of our inspections in their entirety. One of the downfalls of this is that someone watching a canine work who does not know dogs can very easily mis-interpret what they are seeing. One of our canines did perform an action called “padding” where the dog pats or pads an area trying to stir up more scent. This padding is NOT an alert. It simply indicates the dog is trying to get a better scent picture. One canine did do this in a couple of areas of Paula’s home. I won’t get into the details of what a full alert looks like (and feels like on the lead held by the handler), but the summation is that the only place in Paula’s home that our two canines positively alerted was upon the controlled live hide we placed. Now the discussion of what a 2 dog team does when they do have a mixed result is something of interest to me. Our protocol is simple… for us to recommend treatment one of the following conditions must be met: 1. LIVE bedbugs are found. 2. NEW obvious evidence of continued feeding is evident. Bites are only part of this as they can vary greatly from person to person… we look for fecal stains and cast off skins present in areas that have been cleaned since last inspection. 3. BOTH of our canines alert in an area. Even with no visible evidence found, we feel confident in our canines that this is an indicator of the presence of live bedbugs, or viable eggs that are simply so well hidden as to be undetectable by visible inspection alone, without the destruction of the object in question. That’s it. If one canine gives a positive alert, and the other doesn’t, and there is NO evidence of bedbugs (as in Paula’s case, there were NO bites, NO fecal stains, NO blood stains, NO cast off skins) I could not in good conscience advise treatment. Especially treatment as expensive and intrusive as is required for bedbug control. If there was some question in my mind about a mixed result, where one dog alerts, and the other doesn’t, I simply recommend a delay of a week or more, and then have a follow up inspection. In Paula’s case I didn’t feel a follow up was needed, as there was no positive alert, and no visible evidence of an infestation. I have had several conversations with Paula since then, and I must apologize to her if I have been unable to put her mind at ease about our inspection. Is it possible we missed something? Absolutely. The canines are not perfect, nor is any detection methodology extant. They are by far however the best method we have, and when in combination with visible inspections and standard protocols, I feel very comfortable in telling people when they do and do not have bedbugs still present. My summary opinion on some of the side issues raised in this thread is that no one really cares if a dead bug is present, as it isn’t going to bite anyone ever again. (barring zombie bedbugs!) I think there are some very very limited applications of canines that detect anything related to bedbugs, but those applications don’t really apply to a residential setting, especially a post treatment residential setting. I am very thankful for all the work done at the University of Florida, and look forward to other Universities getting more actively involved in the area of canine entomology scent detection. On a personal note, I am disappointed that Mr. Summers did use research not related to bedbug detection, and outdated research at that, to imply that far more uncertainty in canine detection than is actually present with current training methods. I understand that Mr. Summer’s canine can NOT discriminate live vs. dead, but even if the numbers he used were true and applicable, 25% failure still means 75% success…. Which by all the research I’ve heard is still 3-5 times better than the best human inspector doing a visual inspection. Why cast this as disappointing? We are all far better off than we were before canine scent detection was applied to this area.
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Anonymous
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 20:22:09
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If one canine gives a positive alert, and the other doesn’t, and there is NO evidence of bedbugs (as in Paula’s case, there were NO bites, NO fecal stains, NO blood stains, NO cast off skins) I could not in good conscience advise treatment.
Are you characterizing Paula's situation accurately?
I mean, I think you are entitled to clarify the nuances of the service you provide and, since Paula described the visit, of the specific services you rendered her, but, well, I ask again, are you certain that the above is correct? How do you know that she didn't have bites? Or blood spots on her sheets? I remember this episode distinctly because we were all very concerned for her situation and that is not what I remember.
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 20:36:31
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I feel I can not go into greater detail due to privacy concerns of mine for Paula, about what was seen in her house. I also can not speak as to any events prior to my inspection. But I can answer you emphatically that I am characterizing the results of the inspection accurately. In my professional opinion based on the evidence seen on the day of that inspection, I stand by my statement of no bugs, no cast off skins, no fecal stains, no blood spots, no bites consistent with prior bites, and NO reason for additional treatments. I deal with several infestations weekly, and nothing of what I saw would indicate that she had a problem with bedbugs that day. Which is what I gave her in my oral report the day of the inspection, and in subsequent conversations and written report.
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Anonymous
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 20:39:12
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But you are not a doctor, are you?
What is your method for identifying and classifying bed bug bites?
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Anonymous
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 20:40:50
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Actually, K9Handler, don't answer that if you think you shouldn't.
But this is a very disturbing picture.
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 20:50:19
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As you well know, I am not a doctor, nor do I claim to be one. I do not actually claim to ever use bites as the sole identifier of a bedbug infestation. (think of all the people with mite bites, and other skin disorder problems.) As we all know, bites vary from individual to individual, and as rule get worse with continued exposure to the allergens the bedbugs inject. (anti-coagulants, etc). I can't go into further details of her inspection without intruding on her privacy. I felt comfortable discussing the overall results of her inspection, as she had already posted about it. I just felt there some clarification needed in regards to confusion about non-handlers watching an inspection.
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Anonymous
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 23:03:04
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Okay.
There clearly seems to be more going on here than is the proper subject of a public discussion.
And I am grateful for your previously being helpful to people in the forums.
However, I am anxious that we are all clear about how crucial it is for professionals to strictly adhere to their areas of competence when rendering professional opinions. I trust we both agree that bedbug bites are outside the purview of a pest control operator.
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newbite
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Nov 13 2007 23:48:02
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Wow, a wise person once posted "The best way to respond to a perceived inaccuracy in another's comment, in my opinion, is to quote it briefly, and then provide evidence to the contrary--without attacking the other individual or group.
Maybe if we all stated our areas of competence, bedbug victims could best judge our professional opinion. Paula it was nice talking to you and hopefully we can assemble some people to help you deal with your crisis. -
your host
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Posted 5 years ago
Wed Nov 14 2007 1:43:27
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I would concur with what I think hopelessnomo's point is-- that bed bug bites can be hard to identify by someone else, and at least most of the time, easier for someone who's been experiencing them to recognize their recurrence. I do understand there is probably more to the story, and I suspect it's not appropriate to say more.
To be clear, I think hopelessnomo IS an expert on bed bug bites. I also agree with both SPK9Handler and hopelessnomo that perhaps it's best not to continue on this discussion of an individual's case. Sorry if I perpetuated this--it was not my intention.
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