Bedbug Sniffing Dogs and vikane(10 posts)
I know of someone who vikaned everything and moved. Vikane did not work. Family was bitten immediately after getting the stuff back from the Uhaul truck. Mother KNEW these were bb bites, but no one believed her. The people who did the vikane did not believe that their methods did not work. Mother even showed vikane person the new bloodspots on encasements. Said that was not bbs. If they are bbs, vikane person said maybe was reinfested through building, etc. Not true. This building is a newly constructed building and no one else has bbs. Not neighbors, no one. Besides, this family slept on the same mattresses from old place that was vikaned and this family was bitten up the same night as if these buggers did not eat for a couple days. Which of course is the case since a couple of days is needed to load truck then vikane then brought back.
Called in a bb sniffing dog. Dog did not hit any areas. This was a month and a half after vikane and moving. Showed bloodspots on encasements to bb sniffing dog handler. Also said this was not bbs. This family has bbs because they are getting bites and bloodspots on their sheets.
I am not going into whether or not this family is getting treatment because that is not the point of my post here. The point of this post is to show that sniffing dogs are not 100% and neither is vikane. This family took EXTREME precautions and know they did not bring any bbs with them. I also read a few posts on this forum and read that vikane does not always work.
As far as the dog goes, this mom saw the vial of bbs that was "hidden" in her home and then the handler took the dog around to see if the dog could spot the vial w/the bugs in it. Wouldn't ya know that the handler had to take the dog to that spot and was sorta "leading" the dog to hit on that spot. The handler knew where the vial was and in this mom's opinion, lead the dog to hit on the spot where the vial was hidden.
I am not saying that vikane or sniffing dogs do not work, just letting you know about this person's experience.
Has anyone located any live bed bugs in the residence?
Is there any possibility that we are looking at bat bugs, swallow bugs or other biting mites instead of bed bugs in this instance?
Was the Vikane fumigation monitered with a gas concentration meter? How much Vikane was used & what was the duration of the treatment? Did they consult with Dow?
I am really curious about the details. Feel free to send me a PM, if you do not want to post the info here.
I am sorry for your friend's experience.
I think it is well known that bed bug dog and handler teams are not 100% accurate. We also know they are not all equally good.
With Vikane fumigation: there are errors which can occur. The provider should guarantee their work.I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
Just to let everyone - that was EXACTLY my experience as well. The vikane fumigation did not work and the company did have to re-fumigate a couple of times but it is a hassle.
the bb dogs also did not hit on anything and it was sometime befroe i found them there myself
i am not a fan of vikane fumigation and i think heat treatments are the way to go - they are much more effective and reliable
it amazes me that the fumigation companies still so vehemntly deny that they are at fault
i would never vikane fumigate again - i would only go the heat treatment route
Agh! This is my worst fear! I am moving at the end of the month, as my landlord has been completely uncooperative. I have to either Vikane or heat treat and it HAS to work! I was also planning on getting a bed bug dog to check out my new place. Now I am wondering if I should throw everything I own away, though I really can't afford to do that.
I thankfully don't have bedbugs, but I do have termites; and so will soon be having my house tented and filled with Vikane. Oh joy.
So needless to say, I did some research beforehand. And one thing I learned is that Vikane (aka sulfuryl fluoride) kills bugs by screwing with their metabolism in a way that prevents them from metabolizing their fat stores. So while Vikane-sucking bugs will always die, they don't always die right away. And according to Dow, bugs can linger on for "several days". (Thus giving the bug's loving family time to gather around their deathbed and bicker about the inheritance.)
The moral is that if you get your furniture and stuff nuked with Vikane, you'd better wait "several days" (whatever that means) before bringing it all back into your house.
Fumigation for termites and fumigating for bedbugs are two totally different things. Just like any other treatment it varies greatly depending on the targeted pest you are treating.
As per Dow, fumigating for termites requires 1x the concentration of sulfuric fluoride. This will eliminate the population minus eggs. Nymph termites cannot survive without an adult. So when those eggs hatch, they die. To vikane/fumigate for bed bugs requires min 3X the concentration for termites and the calculated ounce hours are longer for the gas to penetrate the eggs. As we all know from doing research on bed bugs that they are born like little adults and DO NOT need the adults to survive and restart a population. If you "see bed bugs" after vikane fumigation there is definitely something wrong there. There is also much more prep and proper exposure to items in the structure for treating bed bugs that does not pertain to termites.
Just like any other treatment, you must treat for the targeted pest properly for it to be successful.
The advise by markj99 is incorrect because his information is based on treating a different insect and not for bed bugs.
There is no "easy" cure all for a bed bug infestation but it is possible. Even with structural/chamber fumigation there is much prep involved, must be performed properly, and for the proper targeted pest for it to be successful.
I would like to raise the possibility that they were re-infested through the Uhaul truck. You KNOW those moving trucks have gotta be crawling with them.
In the case reported by 'deathtobbs', it's certainly possible that the bug-guys who used vikane to treat for bed bugs used an inappropriate dosage and/or committed other procedural errors. I don't know.
But I do know, that fumigation with sulfuryl fluoride is NOT "totally different for termites and bed bugs": While the dosages may be different, the mode of action is the same for bed bugs, termites, or any other arthropod! The fluoride ion disrupts both the fatty-acid cycle, and glycolysis cycle. That means, in effect, the insects die of "starvation".
And while we'd all like that disruption to be fast and furious, prudence requires a careful titration that minimizes the dosage of poison. And so, as I said before, it may take a few days before the <insert your bug here> "starves" and dies when treated with a metabolic poison like sulfuryl flouride.
Bed bugs don't need to eat every day, and need at least a day or two to digest a meal. So the fact that deathtobbs report mentioned that the bed bugs "bit as if these buggers did not eat for a couple days" suggests that the bugs were abnormally hungry. That supports the theory that they were in the process of starving to death.
"And while we'd all like that disruption to be fast and furious, prudence requires a careful titration that minimizes the dosage of poison. And so, as I said before, it may take a few days before the <insert your bug here> "starves" and dies when treated with a metabolic poison like sulfuryl flouride."
This is the first time I have heard of this markj99. and I have spoken to them and some higher reps ago when performing our fumigation on our home 2 yrs ago. When I spoke to Dow I was told just as I explained in my last post.
Are you able to obtain documentation to support this when it comes to bed bugs. I was told from my regional representative just as I stated above. I find it's very important for the public to know the facts either way.
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