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Bed Bug Canine Inspections?

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  1. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu May 14 2009 15:57:52
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    But do you guys confirm via visual inspection Scooby's alerts?

    Jim

  2. KillerQueen

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu May 14 2009 16:53:24
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    Well call me crazy .. but the two of you both join the site within the last hour and you are able to answer the question ... 6 minutes apart. Either I'm stupid ... or it’s just amazing you 2 found each other.

  3. paulaw0919

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu May 14 2009 17:29:50
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    DITTO!

    Highly unlikely coincidence.

  4. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri May 15 2009 1:55:06
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    Actually, the question and answer were posted by users with more in common than their interest in Chicago bed bug dogs and the time when they found the site.

    There is very strong evidence (apparent to admin) these 2 posts were made by the same person, or at least two people operating very closely. I am not going to go into what they are, because I like catching people who try and pull this off, and I don't want people to know how I catch them.

    That's pretty lame.

    [Reference to spammer deleted.]

    Note to others: it is okay for newcomers to tell us who they are. It is not okay to try and trick people or sell yourself.

    We are intelligent people. Ignore this fact at your peril.

    That said, I would love to hear the answer to Jim's question?


    But do you guys confirm via visual inspection Scooby's alerts?

    Jim

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  5. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri May 15 2009 2:12:00
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    Nobugsonme - 12 minutes ago  » 

    That said, I would love to hear the answer to Jim's question?


    But do you guys confirm via visual inspection Scooby's alerts?
    Jim

    We often hear of K9 searches and alerting but not many say the inspector reached in and whipped out a casting, egg, bug, or fecal trace. Just a dog alerting.

    I know some inspectors do search to confirm the alerts but sounds as if many do not.

    Getting skeptical over on the west coast here.

    Jim

  6. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri May 15 2009 2:27:18
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    spideyjg - 11 minutes ago  » 

    I know some inspectors do search to confirm the alerts but sounds as if many do not.
    Getting skeptical over on the west coast here.

    Rightly so, Jim.

    If alerts are not confirmed, the customer does not know if the alert is true or a false positive.

    Incidentally, there's actually a new article in the Atlantic which is the first mention I've heard in the actual press about the controversy between different canine scent detection camps. Check it out here.

  7. LVK9

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri May 15 2009 11:06:49
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    Some questions you should ask before you hire a company for a K-9 inspection. This is to make sure that the service you are paying for (K-9 inspection) is treated as a separate job and not a way to secure work for treatment of your home / facility.

    1. What exactly is included in the inspection

    2. What exactly is performed during the visit?
    A. K-9 Sweeps facility
    B. Alerted areas marked?
    C. Marked areas visually inspected?
    D. What type of documentation is left with customer?

    3. How much time exactly is included in the visit?

    4. If the K-9 Company is also a Pest Elimination Company can you use a Pest Elimination Company of your choice for treatment if you choose to?

    5. If you choose to use a different Pest Elimination Company does the price of the inspection change?

    Above are a few questions someone should ask BEFORE you hire a K-9 inspection company.
    If the K-9 company is part of a Pest Elimination Company, and you want or think you want to use the same company for treatment you still should ask these questions first.

  8. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri May 15 2009 12:21:29
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    Not a bad list. Anything else? I have been wanting a FAQ on this.

    On a lighter note-- It's good the dogs can sweep, but if they could operate a vapor steam cleaner, I'd be really impressed...

  9. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri May 15 2009 12:27:52
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    Nobugsonme - 2 minutes ago  » 
    On a lighter note-- It's good the dogs can sweep, but if they could operate a vapor steam cleaner, I'd be really impressed...

    Dam and I was hoping to announce a break away faction of vegan bed bugs that we had trained to do that but they seem to be having one heck of a job finding a vehicle that they can drive but it looks like that work is going to the dogs.

    David

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  10. LVK9

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri May 15 2009 19:13:39
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    Before she operates a steam cleaner I need her to fetch my paper in morning.

    I do have other questions that people should / could ask but maybe I should wait to see what other K-9 companies have to offer up.

  11. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri May 15 2009 21:11:31
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    Vegan Bed Bugs!

    The perfect solution ... an intensive campaign to educate bed bugs on the benefits of a strict vegan diet

  12. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat May 16 2009 14:30:07
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    Hi All,

    I have had a nice exchange in which the spammer noted the error of his/her ways (new to the internet, got bad advice from a friend on how to promote business, etc.) and apologized profusely.

    I agreed to take their posts down to save them shame, though if I see them spamming other websites, I might just put them back up!

  13. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat May 16 2009 14:30:42
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    Oh, and I am leaving the thread up, because we are starting to get some good ideas about a canine scent detection FAQ. Any others???

  14. LVK9

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat May 16 2009 14:41:31
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    I will give it a day or two to see what other companies are will to help this thread along.

  15. BEDBUGGEDWIFE

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun May 17 2009 15:41:08
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    We had a bed bug dog come in and my husband asked for proof of insurance .

    Bedbuggedwife

  16. bugbait

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon May 18 2009 13:32:15
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    LVK9 - 3 days ago  » 
    Some questions you should ask before you hire a company for a K-9 inspection. This is to make sure that the service you are paying for (K-9 inspection) is treated as a separate job and not a way to secure work for treatment of your home / facility.
    1. What exactly is included in the inspection
    2. What exactly is performed during the visit?
    A. K-9 Sweeps facility
    B. Alerted areas marked?
    C. Marked areas visually inspected?
    D. What type of documentation is left with customer?
    3. How much time exactly is included in the visit?
    4. If the K-9 Company is also a Pest Elimination Company can you use a Pest Elimination Company of your choice for treatment if you choose to?
    5. If you choose to use a different Pest Elimination Company does the price of the inspection change?
    Above are a few questions someone should ask BEFORE you hire a K-9 inspection company.
    If the K-9 company is part of a Pest Elimination Company, and you want or think you want to use the same company for treatment you still should ask these questions first.

    Great questions! I'd love to see a canine scent detection FAQ
    LVK9 - You are so right about the questions clients should ask prior to a canine inspection. We are in Cincinnati - Canine Bed Bug Finder - and we would welcome a canine inspection info. thread.

  17. LVK9

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon May 18 2009 19:41:33
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    BugBait, you mentioned you are in the K-9 inspection business, do you have any input for a K-9 FAQ section?

  18. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue May 19 2009 12:07:13
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    LV K9

    The questions you have listed are a good ones for the consumer to ask a K9 provider.

    I would ask some additional questions about the training / experience of the handler, which company trained the K9 & policies regarding clearance inspections after treatment.

    I would be happy to provide input for a K9 FAQ, but I think I should point out that the writing of a K9 FAQ will likely spark some intense exchanges about the merits of the competing training & certification programs that are on the market.

    The forum has been more peaceful lately... I'm not sure that we should light the fuse on further debate regarding K9 services... In some of the previous discussions the resulting conflict has created confusion rather than enlightenment.

  19. cincybbdog

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue May 19 2009 12:33:53
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    Hi guys:

    My wife on this website is "bugbait". So I guess that makes me "bugmate" She mentioned this thread, and since we have a canine detection business, I guess I should offer my two cents worth. First, I'm in agreement with the FAQ's that have been mentioned so far. I believe it is important to explain up front to a client who we are (a bed bug detection business), what we aren't (a pest control company). I explain what we are going to do (a complete "sniff" of the home or business) - and what I will do if the dog alerts. In our case, if Hershey alerts, I will follow that up with a visual inspection.

    So far, that's pretty much what this thread has already mentioned. The one other thing I do, that my wife cautions me is a "slippery slope", is I offer a 30-day assurance agreement. It's nothing that I put in writing, but it is a promise that I make. If the client feels that we (Hershey and I) absolutely "blew it" on the inspection, and told them one thing - and they feel we're totally wrong, we'll come back and re-do the inspection at no cost. Now, before people start calling me an idiot, here's my thinking. If you had a leaky faucet and called a plumber, and then still had a leak after they left. Wouldn't you expect them to come back and fix it? If you hired an electrician to fix a flickering light, wouldn't you expect them to return if the light still flickered.

    I think our clients are entitled to a similiar level of service. I know that the nature of our business doesn't deal in absolutes. We can't always show a client live bed bugs to validate the dogs alerts or the opposite for that matter (a false negative). What we can show a client is a willingness to stand behind our work. If I'm going to charge a client several hundred dollars for my dogs work, I want them to know we've done the best job we can - and we want them to have assurance that they have gotten value from our service.

  20. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue May 19 2009 15:24:22
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    Certification is irrelevant when it comes to a FAQ about best practices that should apply to inspection.

    Dog handlers and PCOs should draw up these "best practices" in an FAQ to ask those questions of their dog handler to see if they measure up.

    I've seen the arguments in the past and they yielded little enlightenment.

    Jim

  21. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue May 19 2009 20:33:54
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    Jim

    It goes far beyond the certification issue.

    There are significant differences in the training & philosophies of the major K9 providers that can affect the outcome of an inspection.

    I am happy to engage in the discussion & be professional, but I need to repeat my previous prediction that the exchange will end up being heated based on my past experience discussing these topics on the forum.

    Bugmate
    I think a 30 day re-inspection policy is sound & certainly pro-consumer, but I would suggest that you consider making it a written policy. It is a good selling point for your service.

  22. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue May 19 2009 22:04:49
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    LVK9 offered up some useful questions for the consumer.

    I would like to focus on one of the fundamental issues underlying the questions that have been proposed... conflicts of interest.

    Is the consumers interest best served by an inspection only company that does not provide treatment services?

    Conversely, does the consumer benefit when the treatment provider utilizes an IPM approach that combines a quality inspection with effective treatment services?

    These questions can be argued in a compelling fashion in either direction.

    Conflicts of interest can be complex... The conflicts that exist with a treatment company owned K9 team are obvious... the concern being that the K9 team will be dishonest to generate treatment revenue. On the other hand, an inspection only company is capable of being equally dishonest if they accept referral fees or have a quid pro quo arrangement with a treatment provider.

    I think the honesty of the individuals is the key issue... I have seen a number of small treatment companies that perform both functions with integrity & place the consumers interest first.

  23. LVK9

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed May 20 2009 11:09:00
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    Doug I agree with you that dishonest behavior is not limited to one section of the market. One reason for these question is start a focused conversation with a company to better help a customer get a feel for a given company.

  24. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed May 20 2009 13:59:01
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    As someone who is NOT in the canine scent detection business, I am working from these assumptions:

    -- A good and effective bed bug k9 team MAY be certified or uncertified by NESDCA.
    -- A good and effective bed bug k9 team MAY be trained by any number of different handlers.

    Those are my grounding assumptions.

    Given those grounding assumptions,

    What questions should a prospective client ask, and what should the answers be?

    Note: I think we can do this, Doug -- I think we CAN come up with a number of questions and expected answers, which the good pros here will agree on.

    For example, I think we will all agree that having dogs alert WITHOUT then searching for physical evidence is not a good idea. Am I out on a limb there?

    I think that if we stick to the basics, there will be best practices we can ALL agree on.

    There may also be some controversial suggestions. The FAQ can handle this, for example, by stating:

    "Some handlers only provide scent detection while others provide detection and treatment. There are pluses and minuses to both possibilities."

    I stress that I am not an expert on canine scent detection. I only want to come to a consensus on
    (a) what we can all agree on, and perhaps
    (b) lists of things SOME agree on.

    If everyone is willing to state their biases, I can incorporate these, I think, in a fair manner, so readers can be informed.

    Giving readers a sense of what the main differences are between trainers/schools of thought is not a bad thing, as long as they are presented in a fair manner.

    The absence of a bed bug k9 FAQ hurts readers, who may simply pick a team at random (if they're lucky enough to have a CHOICE in their region). So let's put it all out on the table.

    GROUND RULES:
    * State your biases as such. There's nothing wrong with having them. If applicable, you can say, I am from (Training School X's school of thought) and so...
    * Avoid attacking proponents of the other school(s) of thought.
    * Please, start from my grounding assumptions:
    -- A good and effective bed bug k9 team MAY be certified or uncertified by NESDCA.
    -- A good and effective bed bug k9 team MAY be trained by any number of different handlers.

    These are facts, pure and simple.
    I don't truly think anyone can disagree with these, if you think about them. Can you?

    Okay, feel free to argue against my grounding assumptions. But please be respectful and succinct.

    And are there other grounding assumptions we can ALL agree on, when it comes to bed bug k9s???

  25. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed May 20 2009 22:55:20
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    For example, I think we will all agree that having dogs alert WITHOUT then searching for physical evidence is not a good idea. Am I out on a limb there?

    That is an interesting question ... At Florida K9 Academy we stress the importance of performing a visual inspection for evidence of bed bugs at the location of each K9 alert. Our philosophy is based on the body of law & practices that are common with the use of K9s in forensic applications like arson investigations.

    I am a little unclear on J&K's philosophy on this isssue. I can't speak for them

    I had an interesting conversation with Dr Oi after she presented the results of her preliminary study on K9 accuracy that was performed with J&K handler teams.

    I asked Dr Oi, if the goal of the research & training program at J&K was to train K9s that could be used as an instrument... In other words, did they wish to train a K9 team that would make treatment decisions based strictly on the basis of K9 alerts. Dr Oi responded affirmatively, at that time, that it was one of the goals of the program.

    I don't know if this is still her opinion on the issue or if she would answer the question differently today.

    It was a brief friendly conversation & I sincerely hope that I am not misrepresenting her position... I respect Dr Oi's opinions & her professionalism.

    Perhaps one of the PepeDog handlers can clarify J&Ks current position regarding visual confirmation of K9 alerts.

    I'm sure there is a lot of common ground that we can agree on & I think that consumers can certainly benefit from a good FAQ on K9 services.

    LVK9's questions are a good start. Conflicts of interest are a major issue for K9 inspection & I think the proposed questions are helpful for the consumer to clarify their options by addressing some key considerations.

    Explaining live vs dead scent detection & how training differences between the different companies affect the dogs behavior in the field will be more difficult.


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