Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Bed bug bites, skin, etc.

Bed Bug Bites or Mosquito Bites?

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  1. Brandon275

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sat May 12 2012 17:33:53
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    Hey all. I have some basic questions about the bites I have on my right arm. I am schooled in bed bugs because I happen to work as a paramedic and I enter homes often that have bedbugs. Anyway about 2 weeks ago I noticed a couple mosquito like bites on my shoulder. I passed them off. Then I noticed one more a couple days later. I would like to note that I live in a condo complex that is surrounded by a wooded area with a river that runs through it. I noticed these bites after being outside at night about 10 yards from the woods and I know that mosquito season in NH starts in late april/early may. I was outside talking to a friend who was having a smoke.

    Anyway I freaked out that they may be bed bugs so I did my research. I searched my room high and low and found absolutely no evidence of bed bugs. Not a single black stain mark on my bed...looked in the seams not a mark no blood nothing. Looked inside my box spring and there was nothing. I have searched my baseboards and have found nothing. I got some passive bed bug traps(glue ones)...no bugs have been caught. To be safe I bought 2 mattress covers for my box spring and mattress from walmart. I even searched my couch and nothing.

    Also I have not had bites follow a linear pattern of breakfast lunch and dinner. I have had no bites on my chest, stomach or back, legs, neck or face. Only on my right arm and two on my left. The bites are raised like a small welt and dont seem to follow the rash like appearance of bed bug bites. I went about a week and a half with no more bites. Yesterday I found one mosquito looking bite in the middle of my right arm(only one) and today I found one on the bone of my right pinkie finger(only one). Again I was outside sitting on the steps at night where lots of bugs fly around. I was smoking and the only part that was exposed last night was my hands because I had a sweater on

    Basically I am just obsessed with bed bugs at this point. Does this seem to follow any sort of bed bug pattern or am I just really making myself worry for no reason? hope someone answers quickly. Thanks!

  2. edtt

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sun May 13 2012 2:31:02
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    Passive monitoring is the best thing you can do.
    Climb ups, bb beacons and/ or monitors.
    Until u have evidence, u need to wait, difficult, I know
    Ties/marks can be anything
    Good luck

  3. edtt

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sun May 13 2012 2:33:09
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    My goodness, autocorrect, blast!
    That should read bites, not ties!!
    Lol

  4. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Sun May 13 2012 16:06:22
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    Mosquito bites will be on exposed skin... The areas that you describe sound like exposed skin...I am speculating here,...but the pattern sounds consistent with Mosquito bites.

    You are taking the correct actions.... visual inspection can be frustrating... but useful... edtt's suggestion to acquire passive monitors may also be helpful to see if we can collect a specimen.

    BB Alert Passive monitors on your bed frame and couch are inexpensive and easy to check for signs of live activity... I suspect Mosquitoes based on your description, but installing BB Alert Passive Monitors will provide for long term surveillance given your occupational exposure of responding to calls in patient's homes.

    A reliable K9 team could also be very useful... if one is available in your area.

  5. ShelaghDB

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon May 14 2012 0:11:24
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    BUT, correct me if I am wrong but won't a BedBuug bite have a big sort of hole in the middle?
    I dont recall, although I might be wrong, that mosquitoes have such a large obviously round hole as if a bit has been taken out of your skin when the bite happened?

    I know the first week or two, up until putting down diamatrous earth or whoever it is called, that I received, I believe 3 bites.
    I would get a round spot that was red and in the middle, a perfectly formed circle.....naturally id scratch it ad a small scab would form over that circle.

    It caused me to wonder about non reactors. Even IF they don't react to bites at all, would they still not at least have little holes o their body in places? But perhaps not red or inflamed?

    Brandon

    I am not an expert but found one dead bug in my bathroom 3 weeks ago. I have done to my bed what you have done and NEVER have i see any signs anywhere or bugs except, the first week, I noticed when i was sitting at my computer table, on a chair i got what i thought were these 3 bites. They didn't take place at 4am but I assume around 7-8'ish at night?

    I figured they were in the baseboards beside my computer as I could see some holes there, being an older building and once i put the powder in, I have not yet had another bite (touch wood) and I am wondering if in my case, I had a few but killed them with this earth.
    In ay event, the point being, the bed may not be the spot they are getting you IF you were to have them.

  6. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon May 14 2012 1:53:53
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  7. Koebner

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue May 15 2012 13:17:17
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    Shelagh - Bite reactions are entirely individual, up to & including the "holes" you describe, & each individual's response can be further complicated by other health/ environmental factors. Any biting insect can leave a "hole" & many other non-insect irritants can result in skin reactions that exactly resemble insect bites, including the "holes".

    If there really were definitive bed bug bite symptoms then many people would get their BB problems diagnosed a lot faster & many others would be able to stop worrying about BBs & find the real cause of their skin irritation.

  8. Jules Noise

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Wed May 16 2012 7:57:10
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    @Brandon275

    Hi, looking for bedbug answers?
    I'm a bedbug eliminator, I can get rid of any bedbugs, anywhere, any place and I find it easy.

    Bedbugs are no big deal when you know to eliminate them at any stage of infestation. I stop bedbug from biting on the first sign of presence and I eliminate them completely without any chance of re-infestation or any future invasion. I make people bedbug-free but even more importantly, bedbug-proof.

    Quite a declaration wouldn't you say? I can back it up with thousands of dead bedbugs and countless places where I eliminated bedbugs for free and without poison.

    But first some answers for those who posted comments on your blog.

    @newbite__ Passive monitoring will do nothing but tell you you have bedbugs, which is something you find out when you are infested no matter what. Climb ups, bb beacons and/ or monitors are useless as they catch only a few bedbugs but do not get rid of most of them. Bites/marks can be anything but are the first signs of bedbugs. Your comment is not helping anyone.

    @DougSummersMS__Mosquito bites will be on exposed skin... and so will bedbugs bites. In fact if you want to protect yourself, cover every part of your body and bedbugs will only bite you on the exposed skin of your face. Bite patterns are meaningless, only adult bedbug leave breakfast-lunch-dinner marks as they take in more blood than the nymphs who being smaller need to bite only once to fill up. Visual inspection can be frustrating as some bedbugs (instars) are nearly invisible. The hatchlings are so tiny and transparent that exterminators never see them. Again, passive monitors are useless as they only detect the presence of bedbugs but do not eliminate them. K9 is a waste of time and money. A sniffing dog will detect a spot where there are active bedbugs on account of the smell of their accumulated bedbug feces but will miss the lone hiding bedbug that is not in that spot. Bedbugs crawl where dogs cannot go. Do not make people spend money on unreliable methods that will not eliminate the bedbug.

    @ShelaghDB__BedBug bite have a big sort of hole in the middle? Some will do and most will not. Adult bedbugs will leave a swelling where they bit but smaller nymphs and instars (babies) will not. Swelling is caused by bedbugs saliva and small bedbugs will use only a little. The size of the swelling depends on the size of the bedbug. All size of bedbug puncture the skin but where an adult will leave a noticable red swelling and hole, a hole from a small bedbbug will be so small as to be nearly invisible and even an expert won't be able to detect it.

    @Brandon__That's a missing information in the Bedbugger.com FAQs. When does a bedbug infestation starts? When you find out it is already too late, you are infested. It starts with a single bedbug that you bring home with you some day or that you get when a neighbor or an exterminator pushes his bedbugs into your place. You get a first bite that you may or may not notice but do not know what it is. The adult after feeding on your blood will go hide somewhere to digest but most importantly to lay 2 to 10 eggs. You will not get another bite from the adult for weeks and when it will bite again you may not be aware of it again if you get bit at the beginning of the night and the swelling, itching and redness will dissapear within a few hours, long before you wake up. So you can get bit several times and never be aware of it. Meanwhile the eggs will hatch and the minuscule baby bedbugs will get on you and have tiny bites with hardly any swelling, drawing blood everytime to molt into the next stage of growing up. The adult will lay more eggs as her first hatchling go into stage two or three becoming more visible and drawing more blood. When the bedbug population reaches a significant number of near adults the swelling and hitching from the numerous bites will start to be noticed by the human victim and then he/she will then realize he/she is infected by bedbugs. an infestation usually starts months before we realize that we are.

    @DougSummersMS__Your links are covering possible sources of irritants but does not any particular insects. It is a non-information list that does not help to find out if the bites are from bedbugs or other insects or even products. You forgot to include permethrin into the list of irritants

    @Koebner___You are right, bite reactions are entirely individual, up to & including the "holes" you describe, & each individual's response can be further complicated by other health/ environmental factors.

    Now back to your query Brandon275.
    Bites on your arm and shoulder could be from any of the above factors but as a paramedic you are greatly exposed to bedbug contamination and you are right to suspect that it is. You will not find any evidence of bedbug infestation until the bedbug population has reached a number of bugs large enough to leave such traces, especially since bedbugs are masters at hiding and will always be on the dark side of objects as they shun light and always find the darkest spots to hide. Glue traps are avoided by bedbugs. They feel their way and if they detect anything sticky they will go around it. Bites on the forearm and pinkie is the same as covering your whole body and getting bit on the exposed skin of your face. It could be mosquitoes as well as it could be bedbugs. Actually what you have is only questions and no answers. The only reliable way to find out is to catch a specimen. You either have to wait until you have a full bloom infestation when bedbugs start coming out in the open or with the Industry making you pay for detection services that will always lead to an expensive pesticide treatment. You see, nobody will help you if you do not pay them to do so and they will not care if it causes you problems and aggravation, you are on your own with empty answers and questionable solutions from people who do not know the first thing about bedbugs To make it worst, in your case you will be repeatly exposed to that situation and you will live I a state of constant worry and you will get infested over and over again. I hope you have a thick wallet.

    Not quite what you expected as a real answer to the bedbug nightmare. All of that can be avoided if you can prevent any bedbug from ever biting you. The solution is to catch them and kill them as soon as they get in and before they can bite. A bedbug that can't feed will die of starvation and will not reproduce offsprings, therefore there will not be any infestation. There is a bedbug trap that acts as a sentinel and that catches all bedbugs. It catches all of them without exception. The ultimate defense against bedbugs is to eliminate them at the very moment they get close to your place or to you. In fact, bedbugs will eliminate themselves and you almost have nothing to do. This bedbug sentinel works best when it is left alone under the bed or any other place you might find it useful. And it won't matter if you catch bedbugs or not at your work. As soon as you will get into your place, they will get off you and go into this sentinel to get trapped and will die of exhaustion and starvation. It will not only make you bedbug-free but most importantly, it will make you bedbug-proof.

    Here comes the nice part. This trap can be made from ingredients you already have at home and it is free. You can make one for less than ten dollars and it lasts almost forever. No more bedbug nightmares, no exterminators, no money for companies who want to make a fast buck from you, no do's or don'ts, no aggravation, a sentinel is peace of mind, forever free from bedbugs and all the charlatans in the domain. As a paramedic you might also appreciate that it does not use poison. It works on yeast and sugar in lukewarm water to produce ethanol and very small quantities CO2, no more than the breathing of a small animal such as a hamster. It is totally safe except for bedbugs. It is so efficient and simple that pesticide companies are against it because it will make them lose their market. It does not "manage" the bedbugs, it eradicates them.

    Where can you get the information how to make one for yourself? On Google, simply search for: << CO2 Bedbug Trap - the recipe >>.

    My only goal is to eliminate the bedbug wherever I can, so I offer it to you, nothing asked in return.

    My best regards.
    Jules Noise

  9. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Wed May 16 2012 9:27:37
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    Hi,

    @Jules Noise - I appreciate you are doing this for the right reasons but there are some rather large errors in some of what you are saying. In the spirit of sharing I would like to point out that your assumption that monitors can do nothing to help is a little naive in terms of the possibilities. I teach many hotels and homes to use Passive Monitors as an early detection of bedbugs at which point they are often contained int he harbourage portion of the device.

    Thus by removing it you are actually removing the infestation. If you were to do this and check weekly then you would in fact be removing them before any eggs that were laid would have time to hatch. We have termed this process treatment by Passive Monitor replacement or TbyPMR and one of my hotels has been doing it for about 4 years now.

    This is a great forum for sharing experiences and opinions, in part because some of the most experienced and professional people in the industry are here, most of whom give up a lot of time to help with identification and advice, many of us avoid the use of chemicals where feasible and a few of us are skilled enough to find individual bedbugs as if they are feeding in a location they are leaving trace signs (its a biological impossibility for them not to).

    Regards,

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bedbug infestations in domestic and commercial settings. The patent numbers are GB2463953 and GB2470307.

    "Astral Entomologist - because so many people say my ideas are out of this world"
  10. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Wed May 16 2012 11:08:58
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    @ Jules Noise,

    I appreciate your participation on the forum, but some of the information provided on the YouTube video and in your comments is seriously flawed.

    The first page of the video states that "Without CO2 the bedbugs would never wake up and die in their sleep"... That is a totally ridiculous claim... Can you provide any authoritative citation for your assertion?

    Or "Without CO2 bedbugs would not be able to find humans and feed themselves".... Another interesting claim.... I wonder how the bed bugs that live in laboratory settings that utilize an artificial feeding system that does not give off CO2 manage to thrive... without CO2 to guide them.

    Bite patterns are meaningless, only adult bedbug leave breakfast-lunch-dinner marks as they take in more blood than the nymphs who being smaller need to bite only once to fill up.

    Another false statement... breakfast... lunch... dinner marks on the skin are a myth... I defy you to explain how to identify the bite marks of an adult vs a nymph bed bug... based on appearance.

    Given that your first post on this site is riddled with errors... you might want to ease up on the hubris.

    You are promoting an inferior home made copy of a patented device... then you want to claim that it outperforms anything else on the market and is the only device that one will ever need... which is simply not true.

    Your statement about K9s.... "A sniffing dog will detect a spot where there are active bedbugs on account of the smell of their accumulated bedbug feces but will miss the lone hiding bedbug that is not in that spot" is also inaccurate... You should consider doing some research before making foolish claims on subjects that you clearly have not studied.

    Dogs that alert to targets that contain only bed bug feces will fail the odor recognition tests (ORT) that are provided by K9 trade associations for certification... K9s have been shown to detect a single bed bug or egg in both research studies and training.

    I support your desire to help people eliminate bed bugs, but putting out bad information is not helpful... There is plenty of unreliable info on the web already.

    I don't have time to address all of the factual errors... If you want to be a bed bug educator.... It is critical to provide accurate information.

  11. Jules Noise

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Wed May 16 2012 16:24:47
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    DougSummersMS says:__I appreciate your participation on the forum, but some of the information provided on the YouTube video and in your comments is seriously flawed.

    A forum is a good place to exchange ideas, but there is not much to learn with people who agree with everything you say, they only repeat the things you like to hear. My video and comments being flawed is only your opinion as it is something you do not like to hear.

    DougSummersMS says:__The first page of the video states that "Without CO2 the bedbugs would never wake up and die in their sleep"... That is a totally ridiculous claim... Can you provide any authoritative citation for your assertion?

    That one is easy as it is what all bedbugs do. CO2 wakes up the bedbug , it is the only thing that does. That could be a nice experiment in your laboratories. Bedbugs see in the infrared and CO2 absobs infrared. So to bedbugs carbon dioxide which is invisible to us appears dark to bedbugs. Bedbugs find a place to hide and remain as motionless as possible until they detect the heat from our bodies (infrared sight again, 37,6C against 20C background) and when they lose direct line of sight they follow the CO2 from our breathing to find us. They will follow it until they reach exposed skin where they will feed. Maybe you didn't know that.

    DougSummersMS says:__"Without CO2 bedbugs would not be able to find humans and feed themselves".... Another interesting claim.... I wonder how the bed bugs that live in laboratory settings that utilize an artificial feeding system that does not give off CO2 manage to thrive... without CO2 to guide them.

    Bedbugs in laboratories do not have to search for food, humans put them directly in the artificial feeding system. Bedbugs are specialized insects and feed exclusively on blood, so they have evolved their senses to detect what their food emits and nothing else. The only thing that differentiate us from our surrounding is heat and and CO2 and that"s what bedbugs detect and only that. That can easily be checked in your laboratory.

    DougSummersMS says:__Bite patterns are meaningless, only adult bedbug leave breakfast-lunch-dinner marks as they take in more blood than the nymphs who being smaller need to bite only once to fill up.
    Another false statement... breakfast... lunch... dinner marks on the skin are a myth... I defy you to explain how to identify the bite marks of an adult vs a nymph bed bug... based on appearance.

    Simple physics my dear Watson. The bigger the bedbug, the more blood it will draw. How can you fit the volume of blood taken by an adult into a stage two nymph?

    DougSummersMS says:__Given that your first post on this site is riddled with errors... you might want to ease up on the hubris.

    What you call errors are facts that you are not aware of. If you want to know what bedbugs do, look at a bedbug instead of an "authorative" figure that only know what a bedbug looks like and where to spray poison. Seriously that's what an entomologist is supposed to do. Hubris comes from both sides it seems. How can it be claimed that only a skilled few can catch bedbugs when they run towards a CO2 bedbug trap. I can send you a few thousands if you want. Where do bedbugs go after a poison treatment, where are the dead bedbug? Exterminators say they go into the walls and die. I say they go into the walls (some of them) and die of old age as all bedbugs do. Bedbugs are resistant to poison, the actual survival rate is around 25%, (Ralph Maestre, head of research American Entomological Society of America and bedbug expert at Magic Pest Management's Technical Director). You can't find them and they don't die. Where are they?

    DougSummersMS says:__You are promoting an inferior home made copy of a patented device... then you want to claim that it outperforms anything else on the market and is the only device that one will ever need... which is simply not true.

    The "inferior" home made copy is designed to be the least expensive and most available bedbug trap that anybody can make with the most common ingredients and materials so that people without money can also have bedbug traps and get rid of them. It is something you do not understand as exterminators are in only for the money and give service only to those who can pay for their fee. Inferior is in the mentality of those who profit from poisoning people.

    DougSummersMS says:__Your statement about K9s.... "A sniffing dog will detect a spot where there are active bedbugs on account of the smell of their accumulated bedbug feces but will miss the lone hiding bedbug that is not in that spot" is also inaccurate... You should consider doing some research before making foolish claims on subjects that you clearly have not studied.

    Tell me how a dog can sniff a lone bedbug hiding in the ceiling light fixture... How much smell can a bedbug hiding in closet and in clothing gives off? Sounds to me like you never considered that. How foolish of you.

    DougSummersMS says:__Dogs that alert to targets that contain only bed bug feces will fail the odor recognition tests (ORT) that are provided by K9 trade associations for certification... K9s have been shown to detect a single bed bug or egg in both research studies and training.

    Could that bedbug or egg have been at the right position and height to do so? Did you try it at twice the dog's height?

    DougSummersMS says:__I support your desire to help people eliminate bed bugs, but putting out bad information is not helpful... There is plenty of unreliable info on the web already.

    I agree with you that there is plenty of unreliable information on the web already and lots of it comes from people trying to make a fast buck. Consider their motivations before giving credibility to their "informations". The bedbug is a milkcow and it is easy to sell crap to desperate people who are stuck with the bedbug nightmare.

    DougSummersMS says:__I don't have time to address all of the factual errors... If you want to be a bed bug educator.... It is critical to provide accurate information.

    You might not have time to address what you call factual errors and you are wrong when you state that I want to be a bedbug educator because it would mean that I would be stuck arguing with people who do not want to know. But don't make the mistake to declare that my information is not accurate, I have ten of thousands of dead bedbugs and hundreds of people that are now bedbug free and most importantly bedbug-proof that my inaccuracy is only in your opinion and no legs to stand on. You like a challenge, I can catch the bedbugs that you leave behind even if you go over the homologated strenght and quantity of poison that you will use. And that's a claim I can back off because I never leave a bedbug behind. Poison scatters the bedbug and The CO2 trap attracts them. It is a simple demonstration of logic.

    I can understand your point of view. Going against poison will get you on the unemployment line, so you cannot give in and admit that you cannot get the job done and eliminate the bedbug once and for all.

    What I do, I do it for free to help people, not to make a living or a profit and no exterminator can claim that.

    You see, with the number of bedbugs ever increasing, it becomes evident that bedbug management does not work and that exterminators need to develop another method to control the situation and this is a proven way to bring the numbers down for a variety of reasons. I was hoping that by bringing something that works would some of them might motivate them to do what they are supposed to do to begin with and that's to eliminate the bedbug. Unfortunately the exterminator old school mentality refuses to see its own flaws and persists in passing its narrow-minded principles to the new generation. Too bad, those who will not see how big the problem is right now will be left behind and only those who have the capacity to eliminate the bedbug will get on top of the market. It is your future and you do whatever you want with it but if you do not take side with the people you will lose it.

    No hard feelings, some prefer to poison the world, others don't

    Jules Noise

  12. loubugs

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    Wed May 16 2012 17:29:05
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    When I get home and have time to read all the posts, I'll have something to say for Jules Noise to read. BTW, could you provide a link to the Youtube video? I'd like to see it before commenting.


    (Ralph Maestre, head of research American Entomological Society of America and bedbug expert at Magic Pest Management's Technical Director).

    But I can tell something about your statement that he has nothing to do with the American Entomological Society of America. Actually there is no such organization. There is an American Entomological Society and an Entomological Society of America, but not what you have written. Ralph is not head of research at either institution.

    Professional entomologist/arachnologist. I consult in all matters dealing with insects and arachnids, including those of natural history and biology to pest management and forensic entomology.
  13. DougSummersMS

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    Wed May 16 2012 17:56:22
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    Jules,

    No hard feelings on this end either.

    I am the Director of Training and Education for a company that trains scent detection dogs... I don't apply pesticides... I teach technical classes about bed bug identification, behavior, ecology and biology... I frequently recommend the use of both active and passive monitors... My comments are not really profit driven... I have dealt with bed bugs personally and consider myself to be an activist / advocate... If I thought you had a viable solution I would not hesitate to endorse it.

    My only issue here is misinformation... The assertion that "Without CO2 the bedbugs would never wake up and die in their sleep" is flat out false... Alvero Romaro... a researcher from the University of Kentucky performed an experiment where a colony of bed bugs was placed in a building that was unoccupied and recorded their behavior with time lapse cameras on smoked paper... The bed bugs didn't forage for 92 days, but I believe that the mortality was normal.

    The "never wake up and die in their sleep" statement is not supported by any research that I have ever seen... If you said that BBs won't forage and will die of starvation... then I could see your point.

    CO2 will stimulate a bed bug... I maintain live bed bug colonies for K9 training... I have observed bed bugs in an air tight vial that "woke up" when the vial is picked up without the benefit of sensing CO2.... Sometime they will move toward the heat that is produced by the hand holding the vial.

    There is a limit on the distance that a K9 can locate a single bed bug or egg, but I have had my dog identify a single bed bug at much more than twice her height in the field... I hide a vial with several bed bugs at 7 feet during training on a regular basis... A single egg is the most difficult target to identify at a distance.

    Perhaps some other professionals will weigh in on the "die in their sleep" question... I will bet a huge sum of money on this question... if we can agree on an academic authority to determine the correct answer... Sorkin, Harlan, Potter, Miller, Kells or any of the professionals that comment here like Effe Ci, Killer Queen, David Cain... Are all acceptable to me... This is a question of biology that only has one correct answer.

    A lot of the info that you present is factual, but I could highlight at least a dozen serious inaccuracies in your initial post.

    I also agree that other issues are a matter of opinion and I am happy to respect your opinions... I only object to the factual errors.

    I respect that you try to help others without charging a fee and that you are promoting a DIY device that you believe in... I welcome your participation on this forum... I just wish that you weren't promoting misinformation about bed bug biology.

  14. DougSummersMS

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    Wed May 16 2012 18:03:21
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    Lou,

    Here is the YouTube clip that I was referring to in my comments

    [+] Embed the videoGet the Flash Video

  15. zelchbug

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    Wed May 16 2012 20:50:42
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    This is an interesting link regarding the so-called bed bug trap. The third video touches on using this trap for bed bug control. Apoligize in advance if this link has been posted already.

    http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2010/09/28/diy-how-to-build-a-bedbug-trap/

  16. DougSummersMS

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    Wed May 16 2012 23:57:32
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    That is a different design developed by researchers from Rutgers that utilizes dry ice instead of yeast and sugar water to produce CO2.

    The pitfall trap design is similar, but the Rutger's dry ice monitor uses a dog bowl with tape instead of the soup bowls with cloth glued around the edges described in the video that Jules Noise is promoting.

    The dry ice design produces roughly 620 liters of CO2 for about 10 -12 hours... The yeast mixture produces low levels of CO2 for a few days.

  17. Nobugsonme

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    Thu May 17 2012 0:55:31
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    Jules said,

    @Brandon__That's a missing information in the Bedbugger.com FAQs.

    Hi Jules,

    If you could be more specific, I might be able to update the FAQs. I reread Brandon's post and could not figure out what you're referring to.

    One issue with your trap idea is that while CO2 can attract bed bugs, humans give off pheromones and CO2 and heat -- making us a far superior attractant. This is why we typically don't recommend active monitors like Bed Bug Beacons to be used in rooms where people are sleeping. They can work, but they work better with no competition from a superior attractant.

    You also claim in the video that your method will "catch 90% of bed bugs in three days and 99% in a week."

    How did you determine this?
    Is it with or without a person living in the space?

    If you were marketing a product with such a claim, I know at least one expert who would rush to test it. It can be tested and proven or disproven.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  18. Nobugsonme

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    The Rutgers Dry Ice trap was tested by at least one user here who realized that due to the cost of dry ice (and how quickly it must be replaced) it would be much more expensive for him to run for a week or two than a commercially-available monitor like the Beacon.

  19. djames1921

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    Tests have been done in very small controlled environments trying to use a dry ice trap to "trap out" bed bugs. These tests were done in optimal conditions for this idea to work, and even in these perfect conditions, the population could not be trapped out. It has been proven not to work. If I thought that it was possible, I would advertised my product, the bed bug beacon, as the be all, end all solution to your bed bug woes. I know better, you cannot trap out a bed bug infestation. Even with the beacon which makes co2 for five days, even if you use dry ice in controlled environments and refill it constantly, a good analogy is yellowjacket pheromone traps. Do they catch yellowjackets? Yes. But you can put thirty around a watermelon size nest and you won't trap them out. Your post worries me because I would hate for people to buy beacons and expect them to eliminate their problem.

  20. loubugs

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    Jules,

    DougSummersMS says:__I appreciate your participation on the forum, but some of the information provided on the YouTube video and in your comments is seriously flawed.
    -A forum is a good place to exchange ideas, but there is not much to learn with people who agree with everything you say, they only repeat the things you like to hear. My video and comments being flawed is only your opinion as it is something you do not like to hear.
    DougSummersMS says:__The first page of the video states that "Without CO2 the bedbugs would never wake up and die in their sleep"... That is a totally ridiculous claim... Can you provide any authoritative citation for your assertion?

    "My video and comments being flawed is only your opinion as it is something you do not like to hear." No, after watching it, I have to agree with Doug.

    That one is easy as it is what all bedbugs do. CO2 wakes up the bedbug , it is the only thing that does. That could be a nice experiment in your laboratories. Bedbugs see in the infrared and CO2 absobs infrared. So to bedbugs carbon dioxide which is invisible to us appears dark to bedbugs. Bedbugs find a place to hide and remain as motionless as possible until they detect the heat from our bodies (infrared sight again, 37,6C against 20C background) and when they lose direct line of sight they follow the CO2 from our breathing to find us. They will follow it until they reach exposed skin where they will feed. Maybe you didn't know that.

    If you hold a closed vial, the bugs are attracted to where your fingers touch the vial. I won't bother talking to you about what they see. They primarily detect the CO2 over distance and close-up by heat. Close-up is most likely 12 inches or less. If they are in starving mode, they may very well begin hunting for the host in random fashion is what some research has shown "Maybe you didn't know that."

    DougSummersMS says:__"Without CO2 bedbugs would not be able to find humans and feed themselves".... Another interesting claim.... I wonder how the bed bugs that live in laboratory settings that utilize an artificial feeding system that does not give off CO2 manage to thrive... without CO2 to guide them.
    Bedbugs in laboratories do not have to search for food, humans put them directly in the artificial feeding system. Bedbugs are specialized insects and feed exclusively on blood, so they have evolved their senses to detect what their food emits and nothing else. The only thing that differentiate us from our surrounding is heat and and CO2 and that"s what bedbugs detect and only that. That can easily be checked in your laboratory.

    Bed bugs do search for their hosts even in lab settings. If the host is close, then searching doesn't take as long. Sometimes bed bugs can be on your and for some reason they crawl and crawl, but never stop to feed even though they are very thin. At a later time (hours, days), the same bug will stop and feed. There are some that look like they are feeding and never imbibe any blood. They don't even leave that spot and try to feed a few mm away. It's not that they pick up on blood odor, but on host odors, exhaled CO2, and heat. In a lab experiment, CO2 and heat may be used in the test, so this is the host as far as the bed bug is concerned. There may be food (warmed blood enclosed in a membrane) present or not, depends on the parameters of the experimental design.

    DougSummersMS says:__Bite patterns are meaningless, only adult bedbug leave breakfast-lunch-dinner marks as they take in more blood than the nymphs who being smaller need to bite only once to fill up.
    Another false statement... breakfast... lunch... dinner marks on the skin are a myth... I defy you to explain how to identify the bite marks of an adult vs a nymph bed bug... based on appearance.
    Simple physics my dear Watson. The bigger the bedbug, the more blood it will draw. How can you fit the volume of blood taken by an adult into a stage two nymph?

    Bed bug adults and nymphs will bite and feed until full; adults do not take multiple bites or feed multiple times simply because they are larger. Their size doesn't dictate the number of bites required for filling up. Bites from both nymphs and adults may very look identical. I've posted some pictures, maybe you are not familiar with them. Here's one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lou_bugs_pix/6915713621/in/photostream

    What you call errors are facts that you are not aware of. If you want to know what bedbugs do, look at a bedbug instead of an "authorative" figure that only know what a bedbug looks like and where to spray poison. Seriously that's what an entomologist is supposed to do. Hubris comes from both sides it seems. How can it be claimed that only a skilled few can catch bedbugs when they run towards a CO2 bedbug trap. I can send you a few thousands if you want. Where do bedbugs go after a poison treatment, where are the dead bedbug? Exterminators say they go into the walls and die. I say they go into the walls (some of them) and die of old age as all bedbugs do. Bedbugs are resistant to poison, the actual survival rate is around 25%, (Ralph Maestre, head of research American Entomological Society of America and bedbug expert at Magic Pest Management's Technical Director). You can't find them and they don't die. Where are they?

    If bed bugs are not hungry, will they be attracted to CO2? If there is no attraction, then your trap will not attract and capture them. Treated rooms may or may not cause bed bugs to go into the wall, it depends on the product used. If they go into the walls, they still have to come out for more blood. People don't live in the walls. It's not correct to make a blanket statement that bed bugs are resistant to all insecticides. There are many different formulations and different active ingredients. Already answered the Ralph Maestre statement.

    DougSummersMS says:__You are promoting an inferior home made copy of a patented device... then you want to claim that it outperforms anything else on the market and is the only device that one will ever need... which is simply not true.
    -The "inferior" home made copy is designed to be the least expensive and most available bedbug trap that anybody can make with the most common ingredients and materials so that people without money can also have bedbug traps and get rid of them. It is something you do not understand as exterminators are in only for the money and give service only to those who can pay for their fee. Inferior is in the mentality of those who profit from poisoning people.

    I'm not an exterminator, although am licensed as one. I am an entomologist. There are various traps or monitors that deploy materials for producing CO2.

    DougSummersMS says:__Your statement about K9s.... "A sniffing dog will detect a spot where there are active bedbugs on account of the smell of their accumulated bedbug feces but will miss the lone hiding bedbug that is not in that spot" is also inaccurate... You should consider doing some research before making foolish claims on subjects that you clearly have not studied.
    Tell me how a dog can sniff a lone bedbug hiding in the ceiling light fixture... How much smell can a bedbug hiding in closet and in clothing gives off? Sounds to me like you never considered that. How foolish of you.
    DougSummersMS says:__Dogs that alert to targets that contain only bed bug feces will fail the odor recognition tests (ORT) that are provided by K9 trade associations for certification... K9s have been shown to detect a single bed bug or egg in both research studies and training.
    Could that bedbug or egg have been at the right position and height to do so? Did you try it at twice the dog's height?

    You don't understand canine detection. A dog can detect a lone bed bug in a light fixture, in a closet, in a piece of furniture. The canine team, the dog and the handler, train together. Hides are placed not just at knee height, but in many places and in many locations. You must be aware that bed bugs are not only in the bed, but can be in many different places, some of these may not be hidden but exposed, possibly low light. You don't understand about scent dynamics, scent cone, hides and distractors. The dog is trained on live odor, not fecal odor, dead bed bugs, shed skins, egg shells and if trainers and handlers do by not using clean hides, then they will not have an accurate dog. It will be alerting to infestations that may be active or may be dead. The distractors are hides that have non-living bed bugs, sheds or viable eggs, papers or other materials with waste droppings (fecal and metabolic) and the canine should not alert to these items. There are canines that are trained on food reward or toy reward.

    DougSummersMS says:__I support your desire to help people eliminate bed bugs, but putting out bad information is not helpful... There is plenty of unreliable info on the web already.
    I agree with you that there is plenty of unreliable information on the web already and lots of it comes from people trying to make a fast buck. Consider their motivations before giving credibility to their "informations". The bedbug is a milkcow and it is easy to sell crap to desperate people who are stuck with the bedbug nightmare.
    You might not have time to address what you call factual errors and you are wrong when you state that I want to be a bedbug educator because it would mean that I would be stuck arguing with people who do not want to know. But don't make the mistake to declare that my information is not accurate, I have ten of thousands of dead bedbugs and hundreds of people that are now bedbug free and most importantly bedbug-proof that my inaccuracy is only in your opinion and no legs to stand on. You like a challenge, I can catch the bedbugs that you leave behind even if you go over the homologated strenght and quantity of poison that you will use. And that's a claim I can back off because I never leave a bedbug behind. Poison scatters the bedbug and The CO2 trap attracts them. It is a simple demonstration of logic.

    Yes, there is an awful lot of information out there and some, even though it's presented in a method to aid people with a problem, can be factually incorrect. Poison doesn't necessarily scatter bed bugs, but CO2 traps will capture them if they happen to be attracted to CO2 and fully fed ones aren't interested in feeding any more until some digestion has occurred. Not sure what you mean by homologated strenght[gth]. Not all of your information is accurate as has been noted above and in various posts. Did you search online, ask others, do your own experiments? I'm not discounting your CO2 trap/monitor because the basics are that CO2 is a bed bug attractant. Bed bugs are able to crawl on smooth surfaces, including glass, BTW. See some movies of how they can hold onto various substrates http://www.youtube.com/user/lougentpix

    I can understand your point of view. Going against poison will get you on the unemployment line, so you cannot give in and admit that you cannot get the job done and eliminate the bedbug once and for all.
    What I do, I do it for free to help people, not to make a living or a profit and no exterminator can claim that.

    I'm not a advocate of only insecticides, but of an integrated approach. Your CO2 monitor is one part of it, but will not remove all bed bugs from a location if certain bugs are not attracted to CO2 at that time. Much of what I do is also freely posted on the picture and movie sites and also postings on this forum. I often provide public lectures in the NYC area, some of which are gratis.

    You see, with the number of bedbugs ever increasing, it becomes evident that bedbug management does not work and that exterminators need to develop another method to control the situation and this is a proven way to bring the numbers down for a variety of reasons. I was hoping that by bringing something that works would some of them might motivate them to do what they are supposed to do to begin with and that's to eliminate the bedbug. Unfortunately the exterminator old school mentality refuses to see its own flaws and persists in passing its narrow-minded principles to the new generation. Too bad, those who will not see how big the problem is right now will be left behind and only those who have the capacity to eliminate the bedbug will get on top of the market. It is your future and you do whatever you want with it but if you do not take side with the people you will lose it.

    Yours is part of an integrated pest management system, but there is no one perfect method at this time for eradicating bed bugs. More public education is required, but it has to be factually correct.

  21. djames1921

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    Jules,

    Please understand that the numerous experts in the world of bed bugs (not including myself in that group) who have posted corrections to your comments are doing so because it is important that others reading this thread don't get false hope for methods that will not work and only make things worse. This is part of the overall goal of this forum is to make sure accurate info is out there and that myths, time and money wasting ideas are shot down so people don't make their situation worse. You are getting many responses from many regulars here only because we want to keep desparate people from making foolish choices.

  22. Jules Noise

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    _________DougSummersMS_________That is a different design developed by researchers from Rutgers that utilizes dry ice instead of yeast and sugar water to produce CO2.

    _________Jules Noise's answer:_________I never saw Rutgers CO2 bedbug trap but if it uses dry ice to make a bedbug trap he is bound to fail because it takes more than 8-10 hours to catch all the bedbugs of an infestation. Dry ice only shows that CO2 attract bedbugs but it takes more than that to make a working CO2 bedbug trap. You must refill the dry ice three times a day for over three weks if not a month to catch all the bedbugs. Nobody will make 90 trips to a dry ice supplier to get rid of bedbugs. It is easier to call an exterminator.

    _________DougSummersMS_________The pitfall trap design is similar, but the Rutger's dry ice monitor uses a dog bowl with tape instead of the soup bowls with cloth glued around the edges described in the video that Jules Noise is promoting.

    _________Jules Noise's answer:_________Yes, the pitfall design is similar but it has not been designed by Rutger but by the manufacturer of Climb-up Interceptor who has been selling it for years before that. It is based on the fact that bedbugs have hooks on their legs to allow them to easily climd on fabric, wood, any fibrous surface or material with asperities. It is a soup bowl because it is made of porcelain, a smooth surface that bedbugs cannot use their hooks on. Talcum powder is used in the inside to make it even more slippery. Bedbugs can easily climb up from the outside but cannnot get out once they flip and fall inside. The Nightwatch Monitor has the same pitfall design.

    _________DougSummersMS_________The dry ice design produces roughly 620 liters of CO2 for about 10 -12 hours... The yeast mixture produces low levels of CO2 for a few days.

    _________Jules Noise's answer:_________This is why CO2 traps which are actually known do not work. It has been found that dry ice attracts bedbugs and Rutger jumped to the conclusion that if you put dry ice in a bowl with fabric on the outside it will make a bedbug trap. It has been tried by various people including the university of Kentucky who tested it and even made a do-it-yourself model. They made all kind of tests with limited success. It attracts some bedbugs but not all of them. At best it can be used as a monitor but cannot eliminate bedbugs completely. Some saw the possibility of making money with it and a chinese "hi-tech" model called the Nightwatch Monitor came out on the market with heat and pheromones added to it. It catches bedbugs but cannot eliminate an infestation because it is not properly designed. It is not enough to know that CO2 and heat attract bedbugs even if you add supposedly pheremones to it, you must have some knowledge of the bedbug to select the proper release of CO2 and also know how to use it.

    Dry ice does not last long enough to make a working bedbug trap. A trap that does not last longer than the bedbug will not work. That is also the reason why the Nightwatch Monitor does not work as a trap. It uses compressed CO2 that is turned on and off and rarely more than 8-10 hrs at a time. A trap that is turned off or stop working, obviously will not catch bedbugs.

    Dry ice releases a lot of CO2 over a short period and to the damn of researchers. If it does attracts bedbugs, it also make them go nuts. If they detect any CO2 from a distance they will go towards it, to them that is where their food is. But if you immerse them in it, they become blind and go nuts, going frantically left and right, trying to find where they are going in a thick fog of dark CO2.

    Bedbugs see in the infrared. CO2 absobs infrared. CO2 is invisible to humans but appears dark to bedbugs. The bedbug can see CO2 but if you dip the bedbug into it, it becomes surrounded by CO2 and has no trail to follow, that's why it goes nuts.

    CO2 has to be flowing in trails for bedbug to follow. Faint traces of carbon dioxide on the floor. The same as our breathing when we sleep. CO2 is heavier than air and when we sleep it flows from the top of the bed down to the floor. We do not release 62 liters of CO2 per hour as dry ice does, that's about twice of what we give off. Human breathing gives off 300-450 liters of CO2 a day. The question is how much CO2 is needed to attract bedbugs. Correct me if I'm wrong but bedbugs evolved on bats and they do not need more than the CO2 contained in the breathing of a bat to attract a bedbug.

    Fermentation releases CO2 in very small quantities and over a long period of time.
    (15-20 liters of CO2 at peak and slowly curving down in a month. The amount of yeast and sugar will determine the rate and duration of CO2 generation. More yeast will result in stronger CO2 production, but will exhaust the sugar quicker. Using 1/4 teaspoon of yeast and 2 cups of sugar will result in CO2 production for about 4 to 5 weeks.)

    The feeding cycle of bedbugs is 5-7 days depending on the temperature and the availability of food. Eggs hatch within 7-10 days also depending on the temperature. (if you have different figures I will not contest
    them, it does not matter if it takes longer than that, CO2 production from fermentation outlasts any figures)

    So, there you have it. A slow CO2 generator that will outlast any bedbug in a too slippery bowl that bedbug can easily climb into when they follow wisps of CO2 overflowing from the bowl. A deadly trap for bedbugs.
    All bedbugs have to feed, all bedbugs fall in the trap.

    This trap will attract and catch the all the bedbugs which are on the floor and anywhere else in the room besides the bed. That's right, but it will not catch the bedbugs which are already in the bed. Bedbugs in the bed will not go down to the floor when they are already close to their food. The other part of the trap is to eliminate the bedbugs in the bed. Since we know where they are it is easy to make a dead end for them by covering the whole bed with a sheet of plastic on top of the mattress and going down to the floor. Any bedbug in any part of the bed will not be able to go any higher and get to the person sleeping on top of it. In fact, this shield will stop 95% of the bites the very first night since most of the bedbugs are in the bed (unless you scatter them all over the place and sometimes to the neighbors. Leave them alone, they will go all by themselves into the traps on the floor and those who won't will be stuck under the shee ot plastic and will die of starvation).

    How about heat to attract bedbugs. You are the heat, perfect temperature. To bedbugs, you are glowing at 37,2C / 98,6F against a 20C / 70F background (room temperature). And you can sleep soundly because bedbugs cannot get at you caught as they are in the dead end of the sheet of plastic. (same principle as mattress encasement but open at the bottom where the traps are). It is best to keep sleeping in the bed as it will attract bedbugs in the room to it and will keep bedbugs already in the bed stuck underneath the sheet of plastic. Which word do you want me to use? It will keep them from going to "sleep" and they will have to feed or die (feed cycle).

    Keep your bedbugs awake and you will catch them and starve them to death one by one within a week or two, more if you want, the trap lasts at least four weeks and it is renewable. In fact if you renew it even if you do not have any bedbugs, it becomes a sentinel against re-infestation. After having made you bedbug-free you now become bedbug-proof.

    You have never seen a trap like that and you say it does not work, I dare you to make one. It is not very difficult nor expensive to make a CO2 bedbug trap, anybody can make one for less than 10$. Make one, test it, challenge it, learn from it. In the position you are in, you cannot ignore it, you are leaders and experts in the field. It is based on facts that can be verified by anyone except those who pretend to be experts on the bedbug and won't even try it. If you can't catch bedbugs you do not know bedbugs. You can write books about them and go on Good Morning America with a CO2 generator in one hand and a bowl in the other saying CO2 bedbug traps do not work, but without real knowledge of the bedbug all you have to show is poison, and we know that doesn't work. (if poison would work there would not be 200,000,000 bedbugs in New-York)

    Now that you know how to make elimination traps, we will see what you are going to do with that knowledge. I suggest you make your own model, as fancy or as high tech as you want and be of service to the people and eliminate the bedbug. You will be heroes and make a fortune in New-York.

    I'll let you have the trap for free just like for everybody else, in the bedbug war I have only allies, no enemies, only the bedbug will die.

    For bedbugs I do not use poison, I starve them to death. No bedbugs left behind.

    My name is Jules Noise and I eliminate bedbugs.

  23. Nobugsonme

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    Jules,

    I don't think you've responded to my questions, but I am interested in your response.

    Nobugsonme - 22 hours ago  » 
    Jules said,

    @Brandon__That's a missing information in the Bedbugger.com FAQs.

    Hi Jules,
    If you could be more specific, I might be able to update the FAQs. I reread Brandon's post and could not figure out what you're referring to.

    One issue with your trap idea is that while CO2 can attract bed bugs, humans give off pheromones and CO2 and heat -- making us a far superior attractant. This is why we typically don't recommend active monitors like Bed Bug Beacons to be used in rooms where people are sleeping. They can work, but they work better with no competition from a superior attractant.

    You also claim in the video that your method will "catch 90% of bed bugs in three days and 99% in a week."

    How did you determine this?

    Is it with or without a person living in the space?

    If you were marketing a product with such a claim, I know at least one expert who would rush to test it. It can be tested and proven or disproven.

  24. Jules Noise

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    @djames1921___I agree with you and it is in that spirit that I am posting on this forum. I want to talk to these experts and this is the only way to reach them. They are leaders in the field and experts in their domain, they can accelerate things. My approch is contreversial and meant to stir their interest. I am fully aware of the impact it causes to their ideas and I welcome corrections as they will read my answers willingly.

    I'm facing a barrage of preconceived ideas. I know exactly what I am doing. I've started a discussion that needs to be corrected. They read my posts and comments and in it they will find a full description of the trap and why it works.

    They will have to do some experimentation on an idea they believe does not work. They will never believe until they see it with their own eyes. They can't imagine a CO2 bedbug trap that works. In trying to find factual errors they will have to try to make one.

    This forum is dedicated to truth and accurate information, I do not come here with lies and fantasies. I have a trap they have never seen before, they can't judge it without having tried one. The ball is now in their camp and it is a hot potato some will resent to handle. The bar has been raised to verifying informations. There is only one way to do that and that's making a trap of their own.

    I'm trying to be nice and do them a favor. I'm giving them information they might have missed otherwise. No other trap has ever worked and I can explain why, It is that information that makes mine work and that is missing in the ones they saw before. In search of truth an accuracy, it has to be verified.

    I do not see where is the problem. The trap has been designed to be made by anybody with the most inexpensive materials. All you need is 10$ of ingredients and a place with bedbugs. If it doesn't work you do not have much to lose. You can ban me and erase my comments, even tell me to go to hell. But if it works and it will, you have a lot to gain. Giving real service to the population and eradicating the bedbug. The experts at Bedbugger found a solution so clean and so elegant.

    For those who feel threatened by a CO2 bedbug trap, I tell them not to worry, it's totally safe for humans... except the greedy ones. I'm only trying to help you, some people will hate me for that, casualities of the bedbug war, well this time it won't be the people.

    What else can I say, make one, see for yourself and tell me about it.

    Jules Noise

  25. bed-bugscouk

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    Fri May 18 2012 7:44:44
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    Hi Jules,

    Please read this.

    Jules Noise - 3 hours ago  » 
    I want to talk to these experts and this is the only way to reach them. They are leaders in the field and experts in their domain, they can accelerate things.

    I am one of those people you are trying to reach out to. I have been doing only bedbugs longer than anyone else in the world. My company in London has dealt with more cases than anyone else, has dealt with some of the most heavily documented cases in the world. I have lectured on bedbugs on most continents in the world and I have regular communication with all the other leading specialists and entomologists. I am extensively used int he media to address the need for public education and communication of the issue and I have been the expert on consumer affairs programs. I have even written books on the subject of bedbugs and have one of the most original and informative websites on the subject.

    Jules Noise - 3 hours ago  » 
    My approch is contreversial and meant to stir their interest. I am fully aware of the impact it causes to their ideas and I welcome corrections as they will read my answers willingly.

    You have received corrections and yet you continue to ignore many of them and the questions asked of you in favour of what appears to be a personal attack on some of the more respected members of this forum.

    Jules Noise - 3 hours ago  » 
    I'm facing a barrage of preconceived ideas. I know exactly what I am doing. I've started a discussion that needs to be corrected. They read my posts and comments and in it they will find a full description of the trap and why it works.
    They will have to do some experimentation on an idea they believe does not work. They will never believe until they see it with their own eyes. They can't imagine a CO2 bedbug trap that works. In trying to find factual errors they will have to try to make one.
    This forum is dedicated to truth and accurate information, I do not come here with lies and fantasies. I have a trap they have never seen before, they can't judge it without having tried one.

    The flaw in this argument is a simple one, I know how a gun works, I know how a gun can be used to kill someone and yet I did not need to kill someone to understand that. Yes this is over simplified but respectfully so is you understanding of bedbugs.

    If your aim of this discussion is to be controversial and that is what you mean by "I know exactly what I am doing" then I will agree with you. If you mean to imply that you understand bedbugs respectfully you do not, you have made that clear, it has been pointed out to you by some of the worlds leading authorities and yet you still claim to be doing this for the right reasons.

    I have used the principles you have described to attempt to trap out a whole population of bedbugs and it does not work with this method alone, it can be a powerful tool to help but it is NOT the universal solution that you portray it to be.

    Bedbugs can live without CO2, they do not metabolise CO2 and there is enough CO2 in the normal atmosphere to blow your idea out of the water.

    I would like to leave you with one final thought.

    "You cant more flies with honey than you do with vinegar and you don't need to be an entomologist to understand that"

    If you wish to send me a copy of that PowerPoint I will happily put track changes on and show you were the errors are but its not just one or two minor ones (please PM me to get an email address if you want to do this).

    There is a long path between an idea and something that can help people and part of that path is getting validation from others in the community and a data set that proves principles and efficacy on multiple sites and ideally in multiple locations around the world.

    Regards,

    David

  26. DougSummersMS

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    Fri May 18 2012 8:28:22
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    Jules

    David James has performed extensive laboratory and field research on active CO2 monitors and has submitted his design to reputable independent researchers... Please read his comments carefully and provide us with some evidence to back up your claims.

    djames1921 - 22 hours ago  » 
    Tests have been done in very small controlled environments trying to use a dry ice trap to "trap out" bed bugs. These tests were done in optimal conditions for this idea to work, and even in these perfect conditions, the population could not be trapped out. It has been proven not to work. If I thought that it was possible, I would advertised my product, the bed bug beacon, as the be all, end all solution to your bed bug woes. I know better, you cannot trap out a bed bug infestation. Even with the beacon which makes co2 for five days, even if you use dry ice in controlled environments and refill it constantly, a good analogy is yellowjacket pheromone traps. Do they catch yellowjackets? Yes. But you can put thirty around a watermelon size nest and you won't trap them out. Your post worries me because I would hate for people to buy beacons and expect them to eliminate their problem.

  27. Jules Noise

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    Nobugsonme_____I don't think you've responded to my questions, but I am interested in your response.
    If you could be more specific, I might be able to update the FAQs. I reread Brandon's post and could not figure out what you're referring to.

    Jules Noise_____Sorry about the delay, I'm trying to keep up and had to complete a detailed explanation of how and why the CO2 bedbug trap works.

    My comment to Brandon is related to when an infestation starts. Brandon is trying to figure out if he has a bedbug infestation or not and might not be able to find out until it get worst.

    This is a typical situation where someone gets a few bites, then another bite some days later leading to a complete bedbug hunt and not visually finding any bedbugs or any traces of bedbugs. Hoping for something else but still in doubt, encasing his mattress and his box spring. Getting no bites for a week and a half and then getting two more bites. Worried but with no clear answer about being infested or not, leading to his post which attracted my attention. My answer describes how and when a bedbug infestation starts. The few bites of the beginning and the time before one gets bit again. It could be a single bug picked up at work biting once and then biting again a few days later. Getting disturbed by the activity of the bedbug hunt and not biting again for a week and a half but laying eggs after each time it did bite. Possible eggs from the first two bites having hatched and getting bites from those that leaves little if any traces from first stage nymphs. When does an infestation begins? With the first bedbug and if you can recognize it you can take measures to eliminate it without having to go through all the bites of a growing colony. At this stage it is nearly impossible to have a visual confirmation and the only other possible detection way being a sniffing dog which if successful leads to a pesticide treatment. Having a prevention device at that point catches and eliminate the bugs without the costs of the K9 and the treatment, having the few dead bedbugs as confirmation of the infestation and its elimination. That is what missing in the FAQs, that you do not have to go through all the costs and aggravation of an infestation to get rid of it. Brandon does not need or deserve to pay hundreds of dollars if not a thousand to have confirmation of a bedbug infestation and its chemical removal after additional bites. He has already spent the amount of two mattress encasement and worthless glue monitors, he does not need to pay more to get rid of bedbugs he caught at work. He is the perfect candidate for repeated bedbug infestations and ideal customer for bedbug $$$management. So I told him he will need a thick wallet to stay bedbug free that way. It is an aberration to make a paramedic live in poison and in constant fear of a bedbug infestation. He cannot find that in the FAQs.

    Nobugsonme_____One issue with your trap idea is that while CO2 can attract bed bugs, humans give off pheromones and CO2 and heat -- making us a far superior attractant. This is why we typically don't recommend active monitors like Bed Bug Beacons to be used in rooms where people are sleeping. They can work, but they work better with no competition from a superior attractant.

    Jules Noise_____Best to find out exactly how the CO2 bedbug trap works, you will surprised to find that it uses all three attractants that you mention, CO2, heat (37,2C / 98,6F) an the beloved human pheromones which nobody can really define what they are and what they do exactly, the CO2 bedbg trap as them too. Thank you for defining the CO2 bedbug trap as as superior to active monitors like Bed Bug Beacons but it is not really a fair comparison since it uses more than simply CO2. It is not a monitor, it is a bedbug eliminator and sentinel against re-infestation.

    Nobugsonme_____You also claim in the video that your method will "catch 90% of bed bugs in three days and 99% in a week." How did you determine this?

    Jules Noise_____In fact, it catches 90% of the bedbugs as you set it up the very first day, the very same way as a mattress encasement catches all the bedbugs a mattress. It catches the remaining bedbug according to their feeding cycle which is 5-7 days or less depending on temperature. If you catch the bedbugs every time they go to feed you will eliminate them in a week.

    Nobugsonme_____Is it with or without a person living in the space?

    Jules Noise_____To have all three attractants, the CO2 bedbug trap needs a person living in the space

    Nobugsonme_____If you were marketing a product with such a claim, I know at least one expert who would rush to test it. It can be tested and proven or disproven.

    Jules Noise_____I am marketing a product with such a claim and I am posting on this forum so that all experts will rush and test it. See an earlier post from yesterday where I explain how to make your own and why it works. My posts and comments are meant to to incite those experts to test it in spite of the prejudice towards CO2 bedbug traps caused by CO2 monitors which are not designed and cannot work as traps.

    Regards
    Jules Noise

  28. djames1921

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    Jules,

    We have had numerous people post here that they used the beacon to catch bed bugs in their homes during the course of their infestation. They used the beacon as co2 monitors should be used, to monitor for them. Why didn't they unknowingly eliminate the problem as well? If your theory is correct, i would have customers thanking me weekly for not only helping them monitor for bed bugs, but also completely eliminating the problem. So if you want to know if it has been field tested, it has. It will catch bed bugs, but it won't take care of an infestation. And remember as well that bed bugs won't starve in weeks, or months. I have the most to gain if you are right as not only do I sell a co2 producing product, but i am also on the patent for producing attractant traps using this method. While it would be wonderful for me financially if bed bugs can be controlled this way, they can't.

  29. Koebner

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    Jules - Mort de rire. Truly.

  30. DougSummersMS

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    Jules

    Could you please respond to the questions that Nobugsonme posed earlier and show us some evidence to back up your claims

    Nobugsonme - 8 hours ago  » 
    Jules,
    I don't think you've responded to my questions, but I am interested in your response.

    Nobugsonme - 22 hours ago  » 
    Jules said,

    @Brandon__That's a missing information in the Bedbugger.com FAQs.

    Hi Jules,
    If you could be more specific, I might be able to update the FAQs. I reread Brandon's post and could not figure out what you're referring to.
    One issue with your trap idea is that while CO2 can attract bed bugs, humans give off pheromones and CO2 and heat -- making us a far superior attractant. This is why we typically don't recommend active monitors like Bed Bug Beacons to be used in rooms where people are sleeping. They can work, but they work better with no competition from a superior attractant.
    You also claim in the video that your method will "catch 90% of bed bugs in three days and 99% in a week."
    How did you determine this?
    Is it with or without a person living in the space?
    If you were marketing a product with such a claim, I know at least one expert who would rush to test it. It can be tested and proven or disproven.

    FYI... Nobugs is the owner of this website... Nobugs is an exceptionally fair moderator with a solid track record of supporting the expression of diverse opinions here on the forum... Comments that advocate dangerous or illegal actions are deleted at her discretion... She typically challenges misinformation, but your concerns about your comments being censored because someone in the pest control industry might feel threatened by your DIY device are completely unfounded... Controversial comments are well tolerated here... False information is challenged, but you really have exhibit some truly outrageous behavior to get yourself banned from this site.

    Please provide some evidence for your assertions and I think you will learn that a respectful debate of ideas and opinions is welcome here.

  31. Jules Noise

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    @zelchbug_____This is an interesting link regarding the so-called bed bug trap. The third video touches on using this trap for bed bug control. Apoligize in advance if this link has been posted already.
    http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2010/09/28/diy-how-to-build-a-bedbug-trap/

    Jules Noise_____It is an interesting link on how to fail to make a bedbug trap. It shows that bedbugs are attracted to CO2 but fails to understand why and how it should be used. Flooding bedbugs with CO2 makes them go nuts and if some go into the trap it is because they are trying to not drown in it. There is no natural conditions where bedbugs are dipped into pools of CO2 when they search for their meal. To work a CO2 bedbug trap must attract bedbugs, not suffocate them. It also misses all the bedbugs which are already in the bed where most of the bedbugs will be. At best, it might catch a few on the floor but bedbugs will not get off the bed to go into CO2 monitors on the floor. It is made by an idiot whose knowledge is limited to "CO2 attract bedbugs" but does not know how and why. 5m37 of pure boredom. No wonder CO2 bedbug traps have no credibility with quacks like that trying to look smart and demontrating the opposite. I'm not impressed.

    No offense to you Zelchbug, that's what can be found on the net, you are not responsible for that. It makes me strongly agree with this forum policy of shooting down misinformers.

    Regards
    Jules Noise

  32. Koebner

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    Fri May 18 2012 9:18:46
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    Oh the irony!

  33. Jules Noise

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    Nobugsonme_____The Rutgers Dry Ice trap was tested by at least one user here who realized that due to the cost of dry ice (and how quickly it must be replaced) it would be much more expensive for him to run for a week or two than a commercially-available monitor like the Beacon.

    Jules Noise_____I fully agree with your statement and I explain why in a previous post. Beside the fact that dry ice trap have to be serviced three times a day, the cost and hassle of doing so will deter anybody who tries. Dry ice cannot be used to make CO2 bedbug traps because they release too much CO2 too fast. You need a CO2 production that will last longer than a bedbug and will not drown them in it. Rutger is another"CO2-attract-bedbugs" quack.

  34. bed-bugscouk

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    Fri May 18 2012 9:27:06
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    Hi,

    My last comment on this thread is:

    GONG

    David

  35. DougSummersMS

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    Fri May 18 2012 9:42:49
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    Chuck Berry was the ultimate moderator...

    I wonder if Nobugs can add sound effects to our comments

  36. djames1921

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    If we are playing the gong show here, then I'll add the second gong to the idea of co2 being able to trap out a population of bed bugs. Three gongs in the show meant on to the next performer.

    Wonder if the unknown comic is still around?

  37. Jules Noise

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    djames1921_____Tests have been done in very small controlled environments trying to use a dry ice trap to "trap out" bed bugs. These tests were done in optimal conditions for this idea to work, and even in these perfect conditions, the population could not be trapped out. It has been proven not to work. If I thought that it was possible, I would advertised my product, the bed bug beacon, as the be all, end all solution to your bed bug woes. I know better, you cannot trap out a bed bug infestation. Even with the beacon which makes co2 for five days, even if you use dry ice in controlled environments and refill it constantly, a good analogy is yellowjacket pheromone traps. Do they catch yellowjackets? Yes. But you can put thirty around a watermelon size nest and you won't trap them out. Your post worries me because I would hate for people to buy beacons and expect them to eliminate their problem.

    Jules Noise_____Ah, you are the Bed Bug Beacon. I was wondering why the Beacon never turned into a real bedbug trap. You have tested dry ice as an attractant and found it doesn't work, do you know why? I doubt that you do. Did you test it into an enclosed area or in a set-up similar to normal living conditions? All the tests I have seen or looked at using dry ice make a pool of CO2 in which the bedbugs are immersed. they read CO2 concentration with the meter way physically above the CO2 and the bedbugs go into a frenzy in it going in all directions because they are blinded by the thick dark fog of CO2 from which they are trying to get out. Of course you know that bedbugs see in the infrared and that since CO2 absorbs infrared, carbon dioxide which is invisible to us appears dark to the bedbugs. Your Beacon works on bedbugs which are at a distance to it when it runs down in wisps and trails on the floor, which is the case in normal living conditions such as when we sleep on a bed.

    You have the capacity to test and manufacture your product as the be all, end all solution to bed bug woes. All you have to do is lenghten the CO2 production period and take care of the bedbugs which will not be attracted to the beacon because they are already in the bed and the beacon is on the floor. Take the idea from bed encasement manufacturers and cover the bed with a plastic sheet which will trap bedbugs so that they cannot get on the top side of the bed and this sheet of plastic. Leave it open at the bottomnear the floor where you will put your modified beacon to last longer than the bedbug feeding cycle. Follow the guidelines I have supplied in a previous post to DougSummersMS explaining how my CO2 bedbug trap works. You fill find the amounts of CO2 required and how to use it as well as the reasons for it.

    I do not know the ingredients that you are using to produce CO2 but if you have difficulties to make it produce CO2 over a longer period than five days, you can use the dry ingredients, yeast and sugar in a packet that your customers can mix with lukewarm water.

    I know that this will change your design but it will turn your monitor into a deadly bedbug trap that will outlast any bedbug and will catch then all into you "bowl".

    I want you to test it and show your results to the other members of this forum. I also wish that it will flash dollar signs into your eyes and that you will sell and spread your own CO2 bedbugs trap on a far larger scale than I can ever do, accelerating the availability of a real bedbug trap to the people and putting an end to the bedbug nightmare. The trap is yours, I give it for free. You have the means, you have the way, you cannot back up. Work with me and I'll show you the ropes and the details to make it work. Afterwards you will be able to do what you want, any way you want it.

    You have 200,000,000 bedbugs to take care of. You will need help from the other members of this forum and from all your friends in the field.

    My name is Jules Noise and I give you the poisoned apple called New-York, bedbug capital of the world to clean.

  38. DougSummersMS

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    Oops... I meant Chuck Barris.... please excuse the typo

    It might be fun to play a home version of the Bed Bug Gong Show on a group Skype call.

    I nominate Lou... Nobugs... and Effe Ci for the judges panel

    The rest of us can participate as contestants

  39. djames1921

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    My point is that what you are suggesting has been tested in the real world numerous times. We have run tests where we have made co2 with the beacon for more than a month on site with bed bugs. Did we catch bed bugs, of course, did we eliminate the population? Not even close. I know it may not be the outcome you desire (or me either) but the reality is even running a beacon continually in a empty room with bed bugs for more than a month will not trap them out. I do agree with several of your insights, such as a cloud of too much co2 being a problem, as it definetly is and will confuse them. But the tests you want performed were done a year ago and they failed. Just like trapping out a mature yellow jacket nest with pheromones fails. Nature finds a way.

  40. djames1921

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    A thought just occured to me. We haven't seen mr. Bello on this thread. Paul, are you masquerading as Jules and pulling our leg on this one?

  41. DougSummersMS

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    Interesting hypothesis David

    I ran a Google search on "Jules Noise + Bed Bugs + Canada"

    I checked the first 10 pages of search results and the only links to Jules Noise were for this thread.

    I would think that someone who has perfected the ultimate "bed bug trap" and eliminates bed bugs for the thousands of people without charge would have a few news articles floating around out there.

    You might be on to something here

  42. bed-bugscouk

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    djames1921 - 1 hour ago  » 
    A thought just occured to me. We haven't seen mr. Bello on this thread. Paul, are you masquerading as Jules and pulling our leg on this one?

    I think we may have found a new candidate for the expenses scandal.

    David

  43. KillerQueen

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    Fri May 18 2012 13:08:06
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    This thread is hysterical. Why have I avoided it for soooo long? I'll be checking in later for the full read. Thanks for some entertaining stuff ... lol

  44. bed-bugscouk

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    It's OK bigman I had a conf call earlier, we have decided to tent Manhattan and pour yeast and sugar into the Hudson on a hot day in the summer, with the additions of a few bowls we will sort it all out at the epicentre.

    I will post the details of the plan on bedbugs.xxx our new action plan site.

    David

  45. BedBugMutts

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    Fri May 18 2012 14:54:35
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    Alas, there is a Jules Noise in Quebec City per a couple of listings on Vimeo; so the expense scandal remains unresolved. And I was hoping the culprit would be caught before this year's conference, otherwise, I will have to watch my hotel bill very carefully. Ken

  46. djames1921

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    Fri May 18 2012 16:12:30
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    No response from paul bello, hmmmmm. Maybe he charged his lunch to me as well.

  47. DougSummersMS

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    Ken
    Thanks... I was curious...Many people on the forum utilize an anonymous user name... Nothing wrong with writing under a non de plume...Given some the claims that were made in the intro... I expected a larger digital footprint.

    David
    You are truly amazing... You are challenged to utilize DIY technology to rid the Poisoned Apple of bed bugs... a few short hours later... You present us with a grand vision of how this can be accomplished with a simple... yet elegant design... I salute your resourcefulness sir.

    I am having a little trouble pulling up the website, but please count me in for the next conference call... This is really exciting.

    Gotta go... I think I may have broken a couple of ribs when I was reading your last post.

    Paul
    You are painting yourself into a corner my friend... It is clear that your silence is quickly moving you up to the top of the suspect list

  48. Nobugsonme

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    Koebner - 14 hours ago  » 
    Oh the irony!

    I <3 Koebner!

  49. Nobugsonme

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    Jules Noise - 14 hours ago  » 
    .
    Nobugsonme_____One issue with your trap idea is that while CO2 can attract bed bugs, humans give off pheromones and CO2 and heat -- making us a far superior attractant. This is why we typically don't recommend active monitors like Bed Bug Beacons to be used in rooms where people are sleeping. They can work, but they work better with no competition from a superior attractant.
    Jules Noise_____.... Thank you for defining the CO2 bedbug trap as as superior to active monitors like Bed Bug Beacons but it is not really a fair comparison since it uses more than simply CO2. It is not a monitor, it is a bedbug eliminator and sentinel against re-infestation.

    I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying.

    Any monitor which gives off any combinations of CO2. Heat, pheromones, kairomones. Etc. is by definition, an active monitor.

    If your idea works, it's an active monitor. "Active" just means a monitor does more than just sit there.

    Whether it works remains to be seen and I would highly doubt it was more effective than other CO2 monitors, heat or no heat.

    Perhaps you are unaware, but bed bugs are not just attracted to heat and CO2, and humans will always be stiff competition for any active monitor in attracting them. Humans are, of course, the "superior attractant" I was referring to.

    David James has assured us your model has been tested and came up short.

    As such, I sound the third

    GONG!

  50. P Bello

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    Hey guys,

    I've briefly reviewed this thread and posts above.

    As I sit here watching the Rangers beat the Devils 2 - 0, I noted that there is much misinformation posted by our new Canadian friend. My dad once told me there always someong trying "to win the contest" and here he is. [sentence deleted by admin]

    Those of you who are looking for credible, accurate and practical information regarding your bed bug problem should refer to the information posted and published by recognized experienced professionals and unbiased credible sources.

    As noted by our colleague DC, many of us donate our time and efforts here for the benefit of bed bug victims seeking assistance.

    We have little time to entertain or respond to the beligerant rants of ill informed individuals at the cost of providing viable information and guidance to those who truly need it.

    And, there is always the risk of harm that may result from such misinformation. I hope that not too much damage has been done to those who would otherwise not be able to seperate the BS from the correct information.

    If such argumentative posts and posted misinformation persists, perhaps our web host will simply sensor these comments and the source therof.

    Hope this helps, have a great day ! paul b.

    As a consulting entomologist I provide services for entities such as property managers, health/housing/emergency depts, schools, hospitality/resort/cruise industry, homeowners, food service, retail, pest professionals & product manufacturers. I recommend only efficacious methodologies, products and equipment. Professional relations have included Actisol, AMVAC, Atrix, BASF, Bayer, Catchmaster, FMC, GMT, Eaton, MattressSafe, Nisus, ProTeam, Rockwell, Syngenta & Woodstream. No compensation for product sales occurs. As inventor of Knight Safe bed bug sleep tent provides a royalty.
  51. JulesNoise

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    David James comment to Jules Noise
    My point is that what you are suggesting has been tested in the real world numerous times. We have run tests

    where we have made co2 with the beacon for more than a month on site with bed bugs. Did we catch bed bugs, of

    course, did we eliminate the population? Not even close. I know it may not be the outcome you desire (or me either)

    but the reality is even running a beacon continually in a empty room with bed bugs for more than a month will not

    trap them out. I do agree with several of your insights, such as a cloud of too much co2 being a problem, as it

    definetly is and will confuse them. But the tests you want performed were done a year ago and they failed. Just

    like trapping out a mature yellow jacket nest with pheromones fails. Nature finds a way.

    @djames1921___I said:"They will have to do some experimentation on an idea they believe does not work." I

    believe you will do it, David, it will bug you too much if you don't. There is nobody better than you to understand

    what a CO2 bedbug trap is because you already make part of it. The other part is a shield over the bed (it is in

    the video) and how to set it up.

    The experiment you refer to had no such shield and were done in an empty room while this one needs an occupant.

    Normal living conditions are required. A bedbug trap must be designed to work when there is people around.

    The existence of the Bed Bug Beacon proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that CO2 and a pitfall will attract and

    catch bedbugs. Your expriment ran tests in a empty room with bed bugs for more than a month making co2 with

    the beacon and did not eliminate the population. Here is why: You caught the bedbugs on the floor where the CO2

    being heavier than air goes. The room is empty, no drafts, the CO@ emitted by your generator ran in trails on the

    floor and attracted the bedbugs going or already on the floor. That's the ones your Beacon monitor caught.

    Bedbugs that could go above the faint trails of CO2 on the floor did not get sollicited or excited by the CO2.

    Detecting no food neither by heat or CO2, they went dormant. Dormant bedbugs can last over 90 days, some say

    up to a year, and they outlasted the Beacon.

    Higher up is any place above floor level, you can name them all. Bedbugs higher up never saw (detected) the CO2 at

    the same room temperature as the floor. Even if CO2 is visible to bedbugs, they cannot differenciate it from the

    background if they are at the same temperatute. To catch the dormant ones you must "wake" them up with heat

    and CO2, that means human presence, then they will go down to the floor where the Beacon will get them. You must

    keep them from feeding, they must stay awake so that they will get hungry and forage for a meal while a Beacon is

    running. A bedbug trap must last longer than a bedbug.

    Respectfully, the tests I want performed are different than the ones you ran before. I want tests to be performed

    in an occupied room. It is important that there is a source of heat in the room. It keeps the bedbugs active and it

    is a normal condition when an infestation occurs.

    I mentionned that the trap uses CO2 and heat and pheromones and it does. A human sleeping on the bed is the

    superior attractant that bedbugs will try to reach. The Beacon will catch them as they try to get there. Am I using

    a human as bait? Yes. Will that human get bedbug bites? No.

    Generating CO2 on the floor is not enough to make a trap, but it catches them when they have nowhere to go

    except down to the floor. This is the second part of the trap. A bed encasement, a plastic sheet over the

    mattress and down to the floor. It is the same principle as some of the sponsors or advertisers of this forum,

    BugZip, Sofa Safe, Ziplock... it will keep the bedbugs already in the bed from reaching the human on top. This is

    why a human can be used as bait and will give of co2, heat and the mysterious pheromones everyone seems to

    require but do not know why. Call them Col. Sanders eleven fine spices and herbs fo bedbugs, and of course it is a

    secret.

    The shield is a very important part of the trap. No only will it trap most of the bugs into an impasse but it will

    stop almost every bite as soon as you put it on. If you are careful not to make any "bridges" with the bed sheets

    touching the walls or the floor, no bedbug should be able to reach the human sleeping soundly on top of it. There is

    physically only one way the bedbugs can go and that is down to the floor, and that's where the Beacons are. The

    CO2 emitted by the human flows down from the top of the bed and mix with the CO2 of the Beacons.

    Manufacturers mentionned earlier call that plastic a bed encasement, I call it a shield.

    That's why the Beacon Bedbug Trap can catch all bedbugs. It is a combination of three things that works: the

    Climb-Up Interceptor, The CO2 Beacon monitor and BugZip-Sofa Safe-Ziplock or any other bed/furniture

    encasement manufacturer that whants to jump in.

    It is open at the bottom, the bed should be covered, not enclosed. Bedbugs in the bed will not go dormant and

    follow their natural feeding cycle but will not be able to feed. They do not last 90 days as in the case of the

    unoccupied room / monitors only experiment, they have to feed every 5-7 days. Experts will tell you how long they

    can last if they don't feed, but CO2 generators using fermentation produces CO2 for over a month and can be

    easily restarted for another month and another and another... It can outlast any bedbug and will attract and catch

    any newcomer as it becomes a sentinel against re-infestation.

    To make sure there are no dormant bedbugs anywhere, spray CO2 everywhere in high places, light fixtures, trims,

    baseboards (they won't need much since CO2 flows down). No fortunes involved, Co2 in gaz form can be collected

    from car exhaut pipes in ZipBug type bags and used on location.

    Djames, I want you to make a trap like that. At random, find a infested place and set it up there. Follow the

    results. Do it yourself (or employees), do not ask a lab. You need deep understanding of the bedbug to make a

    trap. They must understand that bedbugs see in the infrared, that Co2 flows down and the bedbug tends to climb

    (Why? Their body is made to arch up and bring their legs up to hook to something, that's how they travel). They

    need to know all kinds of details about the bedbug that the actual holders of knowledge do not have. Do not give a

    steering wheel to a blind man. See it with your own eyes.

    I do not know much about yellow jackets, my teachers were bedbugs. They are much easier to catch and to

    observe. The sting of a bedbug is nothing compared to a yellow jacket. Trapping out a mature yellow jacket nest

    with pheromones might fail the same way as trying to make a CO2 trap with dry ice will fail. It might not be the

    right ingredient or if it is it could be used improperly. Too large a dose often produces the opposite of we are

    looking for and could be interpreted as a fail when it is not the system that fails but the way we use it.

    Nature does not fail, it is our understanding of nature that fails. It is only when I tried to find what made

    bedbugs react or not and why that I could understand how to catch them and catch them all. You offer them a

    meal and watch them flip and fall in it. That's your monitor, it works. They all have to feed and they cannot help

    it, the person sleeping on the other side of the shield keeps them awake. From the hatchlings to the adults, no

    pheromones needed, only hunger. They all have to feed and the only place they can go to get it is into the trap. No

    bedbug can reach you and will eliminate themselves while you sleep. We can afford it, they cannot bite and the trap

    lasts longer than any bedbug. It does not take months if you keep them awake, it follows their feeding cycle. With

    their numbers dwindling every time they try to feed and if you take care of the dormant ones, you get dead

    bedbugs under the shield, dead bedbugs in the traps and no dormant bedbugs anywhere else. They did not bite,

    they did not lay eggs, no bedbug left behind.

    You have to make those tests. Imagine at the Conference, the Beacon, Bedbug Trap & Sentinel, being a topic...

    For those who thought I was not real, I'm just as real as my trap and I'm gonna getcha. You guys have fun, we

    are setting up the stage for you. I hope you find it entertaining, I even heard hilarious and hysterical. It is fine

    with me, that's what I wanted. I needed witnesses to see if David makes a trap because what he told you about it

    does not apply to this one. The best verifications are DIY.

    As for my silence, it is something my father used to say, he told me, "Son, after you plant a seed, you leave it

    alone for a while." It is the same thing for bedbug traps.

    See you at the Conference, it is going to be a heated one.
    Jules Noise

  52. DougSummersMS

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    Mon May 21 2012 10:45:00
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    Co2 in gaz form can be collected

    from car exhaut pipes in ZipBug type bags and used on location.

    What!!

    CAR EXHAUST!!!... Are you kidding me... Have you ever heard of Carbon Monoxide (CO)?

    You won't kill anyone with a ziplock bag full of CO. but you won't trap out any bed bugs either.

    Okay... Formulated a new plan... We will equip all of the taxi cabs in New York with cloth wrapped soup bowls attached to their exhaust pipes... What do you think?

  53. JulesNoise

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    @ Nobugsome ___ I have been silent for a reason. The evidence that is required cannot be supplied by argumentation, it only raises the objections of those who do not know what they are talking about having never seen one or having no knowledge on how to make one. Those are the ones who cannot answer a very simple question: "Did you check it?" My approach was to find that person, the one who has enough integrity to answer: "Yes I did" Anybody else's opinion is irrelevant. I got what I wanted. A row of offended so called experts with incomplete and inaccurate knowledge of the bedbug and one person who will take the time to check it out. Everything is explained in details in my posts to Mr David James. He is the only one that matters since he is the only one who made experiments to make a CO2 bedbug trap. In my last post to him, I explained why the tests he made a year ago failed to make a trap and he agrees with me. It is not enough to know that CO2 attract and will catch bedbugs as his experiment shows. A trap must take care of all the bedbugs, not only those on the floor. And it must be done in normal living conditions where bedbugs are. In an empty room, bedbugs become dormant and you could cover the floor with monitors without any results. Failing to set up a trap properly will only make a failed trap. I believe in Mr James integrity and his BedBeg Beacon is proof of that. He has undenyable results with his monitor, now he has to test it with the second part of the trap which is a shield and in an occupied room. I believe he will.
    I am not selling anything or trying to start a business, nor do I have any desire to argue with people who have no clue what this is all about that cannot and will not make a bedbug trap because they do not know how. It must be evident by now that if anyone wants verifications, it is very easy, do it yourself. At the Conference, a question will come up: "Did you check it?". The trap is a reality, something you have to see with your own eyes. Argumentation is a waste of time. If it drives this forum nuts and irritates or entertains some participants, but it does not eliminate bedbugs and this is what it is all about. No matter what they say, they read the posts and learn how to make a trap and why it works while previous ones failed. Later on they will be asked if they know about it. They are supposed to be experts, it is up to them to prove they are. The thing I like about this forum is accuracy of statement, dedication to knowledge. I do not have to prove the trap works, they have to prove it does not. They can't do that if they do not try one. That is the purpose of my posts. How can they pretend to know the bedbug if they can't catch them? No wonder they can't get rid of it. I think you can understand now why I had to take that approach, if it rouses contreversy it is because it clashes with old ideas.

    My best regards
    Jules Noise

  54. bed-bugscouk

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    Mon May 21 2012 13:18:30
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    LOL you could not script this as a CBS comedy.

    Sorry Jules but I have also done the CO2 based trapping study, in fact I have 2 trial sites underway at the second.

    I can assure you your sentinel arrangement is no more effective than a tin foil hat and in some settings will actually result in the spread of bedbugs.

    If you don't believe me I am sure Mr James will vouch for my knowldge and reputation.

    David

  55. JulesNoise

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    Mon May 21 2012 15:20:47
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    @DougSummersMS___No, I am not kidding you. Car exhaust or carbon monoxide will be detected by bedbugs for the same reason they detect carbon dioxide. Both absorbs infrared.

    How do you think bedbugs perceive CO2? By smell ot by sight? How about heat. Do bedbugs feel heat or do they see it? How do they find us? How do they find their way in the dark?

    Bedbugs see in the infrared. Bright lights blinds they and they always hide away from it in the darkest spots they can find. What they see is the infrared (heat) given of by our body and the dark wisps and trails of our respiration flowing down on the floor.

    You cannot smell an odor if you are not in contact with it. Bedbugs detect CO2 from a distance by sight. It appears dark to them. And so does carbon monoxide.

    The trap has been designed to be available for everybody using the most common and the least expensive materials. A more professional trap can use other sources of CO2 such as dry ice or compressed co2, to rouse dormant bedbugs. Car exhaust works just as well at no cost while other methods do.

    Carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide sweeps are noy meant to kill bedbug or anyone. It merely gets dormant bedbugs aware of a source of food, it wakes them up.

    I like your idea about soup bowls with a skirt attached to taxi's exhaust pipes, it would create a lot of publicity. There might be too much air turbulence for such a trap to work and bedbugs are in beds, it might be difficult to run a taxi there. This is a do-it-yourself trap and anyone can make his own design. It will work if you follow the principles on which it is based on.

    I'm happy to see that you are reading these posts, I appreciate your participation. Your points help me to explain to readers how a bedbug trap should work.

    It's easy to get rid of bedbugs once you know how to do it.

    Jules Noise

  56. jduk

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    Mon May 21 2012 16:18:12
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    Guys, guys, guys !!!! Just used practically all my phone battery reading this thread, which I think started with some poor paramedic wondering if he was being bitten by bed bugs or Mosquitos? The science behind the discussion is beyond my ken but I do know that if a fire is out of control, feeding it more fuel is probably not a good idea. Paul bello eventually chipped in with concerns about how this thread might be affecting those caught in the throes a bed bug problem but without the superior knowledge that the trusted professionals and experts here. I for my part feel like a child who has just witnessed her parents indulging in a brutal argument, ie frightened and confused! Mr noise needs to know that the contributors to this site are amongst the most knowledgable, articulate, trusted and helpful men and women who consistently give of their time and experience to educate, support and assist people through one of the most isolating and upsetting situations that many of us will deal with. In the grand scheme of things if this is the worst thing that ever happens to us then I suppose we should be grateful but everything being relative, it still ranks as a major low point. I can personally vouch for David Cain's integrity and even though he has his business to run, he has offered his help and assistance to me and my child without seeking financial reward, at a time when I was very close to the edge. Similarly , Paul bello has shared his wisdom and inate humanity to bolster my flagging spirits as has dougsummers. These are highly intelligent and compassionate individuals who all bring their particular skills and attributes to the forum, along with the serenely benign nobugsonme, a paragon of impartiality and fairness and to whom we all should be thankful for setting up and maintaining this site so magnificently. So to all the above and the many others, killer queen, got to love his straight talking NY ways, long may they continue to offer their help an share their knowledge without being derided for the fabulous work they do.

  57. JulesNoise

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    @bed-bugscouk___Two trial sites underway at the second, excellent. If it is set properly, you soon will see it for yourself. My belief is that Mr James is also having a look at it. Other members are thinking about it too. You have nothing to lose if you do it the right way. You will gain a new bedbug insight. Why do they do that and how. I do not doubt your knowledge and reputation, far from that, I'm counting on it. No disrespect but what is known now is what you have seen in the past. There has never been a bedbug trap that uses the characteristics of the bedbug to control their traffic. Bedbugs cannot come and go as they please and neither can they go dormant. Many traps have been tried before and all have failed. You have to know what you are doing or else it is like trying to catch a rabbit with a snare in an open field. It is useless to make a trap if you do not attract the bugs and they can go around it.

    The trap consists of a CO2 generator wuth a pitfall and a shield. The bedbug beacon would be perfect if it lasted long enough. Do not use dry ice, it gives off to much CO2, too fast. A beacon at each corner of the bed. A plastic encasement open at the bottom to cover the bed, not enclose it. An the bait is a human like any normal situation.

    This does not spread bedbugs, it attract them. Bedbugs like all insects will scatter if you attack them. Leave them alone and they will stay close to their food. They will go to eat following their feeding cycle but to do so they go to the traps. Bedbugs already in the bed are stopped by the shield and can not go anywhere but down to the floor while bedbugs outside in the room can go nowhere but towards the traps on the floor while the human sleeps soundly on top of the shield.

    Try it like that and give us your results in a week from now.

    Best regards
    Jules Noise

  58. bed-bugscouk

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    Jules,

    Respectfully I have done a lot more advanced studies than what you have outlined in occupied and unoccupied rooms. I supplied the external validation of the Beacon to Mr James and was the first to trial it in occupied rooms.

    What you have outlined may work on a very mild bedbug case of a few samples but simply does not work on the advanced cases we deal with each day, about 12 cases a day 5 days a week and it's been that way for over 6 years now.

    In respect to the comments of jduk and anyone else who feels distressed by this thread I will not participate in it futher other than to say wild and crazy ideas without an understanding of the biology, behaviour and physiology of bedbugs do more harm than good in both the short and long run.

    Rather than trying to recruit others into your wild ideas why not present data from 20 - 30 properties that you have helped written up as a simple report. If you believe you can get this to work prove it.

    Until that point you have lost my interest for the frankly rude and vial way you have behaved.

    David

  59. JulesNoise

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    Mon May 21 2012 17:21:52
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    @jduk___Hi, scary isn't it? Well don't worry, I am not after anyone personally and I am not putting down their human values either. They are only stuck in their opinions based in the way they always did things. They find it unconceivable to do the things I do at will. So this is why this forum is so informative. If I had come any other way, nobody would have give it a second look and nothing would have been done. My concern is the same as yours, support and assist people through one of the most isolating and upsetting situations that many of us will deal with, a bedbug infestation. The trap is made from things that already exists, it only puts them together. This is what I do. Getting a discussion going that is leading to action. The argumentation can't be avoided. It is a necessary ingredient when you are sharing knowledge. Keep following developments, there is more to come and also new knowledge.

    Jules Noise

  60. JulesNoise

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    Mon May 21 2012 17:59:51
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    @bed-bugscouk___Ok, you supplied the external validation of the Beacon to Mr James and was the first to try it in occupied rooms. Did you use a shield? Did the Beacon worked long enough to calch all the bedbugs? The Beacon is a monitor and will catch bedbugs only on the floor and has little if no effect on the bedbugs already in the bed or gone dormant elsewhere. The Beacon shows that CO2 works, to make a trap you need more than a Beacon which is only half of the trap. Until you have made one and tried it, you will not be able to say that if the trap works or not no matter how much cases you covered with something else. There is only one way to test the trap and it is to make one. It stops all argumentation and bad feelings. It also means that you will be one of the first exterminators to use it.
    No hard feelings, we both want the same thing, to eliminate the bedbug.
    Jules Noise

  61. djames1921

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    Mon May 21 2012 19:20:40
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    Jules,

    I also have worked with termites who are attracted to co2 as well. I tested carbon monoxide on termites as well, it did not work. Co2 receptors are known and can be identified on insects. Things aren't as simple as they seem.

  62. bed-bugscouk

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    Mon May 21 2012 19:23:09
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    Jules,

    People pay me to professionally resolve their bedbug infestations from single rooms to whole buildings.

    You ideas of a method no matter how sound in your own mind are dramatically less effective that what we already do since we aim at resolving the issue in one visit which is often feasible given out experience.

    I simply can't in all professional honesty consider subjecting my paying customers to experimentation. If you wish to provide proof of principle with data I will look at what you post but until such time please consider our communication on the issue closed.

    David

  63. P Bello

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    Tue May 22 2012 0:26:37
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    Dear gents,

    Just chacking in from the National Conference on Urban Entomology here in sunny Atlanta. Thankfully I didn't need to hop on a plane to attend this one.

    ( jduk - thanks for the kind words ! )

    Those of you who have genuine bed bug experience and success please stand up and exit the room.

    The rest of you, please stay in the room and argue with yourself !

    DC, DJ, DS, NB, please stop arguing with this appropriately named individual.

    At the end of the day it simply results in a bunch of, dare I say it, noise !

    And, it is not doing anyone any good.

    You are wasting your time which would be better spent helping those who truly need it.

    Nuff said, pb

  64. Nobugsonme

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    Tue May 22 2012 2:25:56
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    Jules,

    The person marketing a particular design is the one who needs to prove its effectiveness by providing trial data. That's true even if the "marketing" is of a DIY solution (such as Changlu Wang's dry ice monitor).

    I am not in a position to test a design with bed bugs at this time.

    As I noted above, you made grand claims about your design killing 90% of bed bugs within 3 days (and if I recall correctly), 99% within a week. You have to actually prove this with data. You have not responded to my request that you provide that proof.

    I am also curious which conference you are planning to attend?

  65. Nobugsonme

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    jduk - 10 hours ago  » 
    Guys, guys, guys !!!! Just used practically all my phone battery reading this thread, which I think started with some poor paramedic wondering if he was being bitten by bed bugs or Mosquitos? The science behind the discussion is beyond my ken but I do know that if a fire is out of control, feeding it more fuel is probably not a good idea. Paul bello eventually chipped in with concerns about how this thread might be affecting those caught in the throes a bed bug problem but without the superior knowledge that the trusted professionals and experts here. I for my part feel like a child who has just witnessed her parents indulging in a brutal argument, ie frightened and confused!

    I appreciate this.

    Normally, we don't allow people to hijack a thread in this way. However, once introduced, a post like Jules' original one above does need to be addressed.

    It appears that Brandon got some good feedback before the conversation went on a tangent. It also looks like he has been active in other threads.

    The bottom line is that Jules is making grand claims of effectiveness without providing any proof of same. We would not accept this for any marketed product. And I would not recommend people try a DIY solution without good reason (ie evidence) it works as claimed.

    Although I am not closing my mind to the possibility of amateurs coming up with good ideas, as it certainly does happen, I would recommend any readers defer to the wisdom and experience of the bed bug experts who've weighed in above.

    To those who wish the thread to die out, I would encourage you to stop posting as it only prolongs the discussion. (The said, I understand the feeling of needing to respond to factual inaccuracies, and I hope you will continue to do that.)

    To Jules, if you do not have reliable testing data to prove your claims, I am afraid we have reached a dead end.

  66. P Bello

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    Tue May 22 2012 8:34:32
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    Jules

    As nobugs points out, if you have objective data that can be presented in a concise fashion then do so.

    Please note that lengthy posts of argumentative verbiage are not an accepted substitute for months & years of replicable data and that anectdotal tails of success are merely interesting stories.

    Unfortuneately, bed bug victims need viable advice and solultions; not the next snake oil or stories.

    Have a nice day ! pjb

  67. Jason san

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    I realize this post is 6 months old. I Found it while searching for difference between mosquito and bed bug bite. All very interesting and raised my hopes for a resolution - till I got 3/4 of the way through...then it turned South and everybody lost some credibility.

    I'm concerned that all the 'experts' dipped into scorn, which, along with none of them personally finding a successful elliminating process for bed bugs (as Mr. Noise claims has) rather puts doubt to my mind that they're not 'hiding something': such as, never actually doing the tests Mr. Noise has challenged them to, nor having the interest to do so because it inteferes with their 'interests' (for all the reasons Mr. Noise points out; AND, for all the 'hubric' reasons every expert made obvious)

    Mr. Noise does not appear to be selling anything or making a name for himself, so his alleged data/testing of a working bed bug elliminator does not have to be provided for the 'experts' to validate/invalidate his claims. If the experts were truly interested in a resolution they'd conduct the experiment as Mr. Noise detailed, not argue on the basis of lacking credible data. If anything, Mr. Noise pointed out the 'gap' (or hole) in the experts' data.

    I'm curious to find out if Mr. Noise's idea really does work and am about to embark on that test right now - I'll update my progress. I have found a lone bed bug (appears male) a couple weeks ago; yet, was bitten twice again last night - so another bug (or bugs) exists. I have found no other evidence for the existence of bed bugs in this dwelling (no droppings, cast skin, eggs or instars...nothing!) and was convinced I just had a lone male which I took care of weeks ago.

    I intend to create the device Mr. Noise suggests and will monitor its success over a month period - unless the apartment manager insists upon an exterminator (although I suppose I could still do the experiment - might be a better experiment).

    However, before being judged as a shill for Mr. Noise (I do not know him), there is one concern I have over his "fool-proof" proposal. I remember reading on other reputable sites that bed bugs are often found climbing walls and dropping off ceilings. If this is the case, then the 'shield' process seems somewhat flawed. And if there is indeed a 'superior attractant' ABOVE the shield, then is it not reasonable to surmise that non-bed residing bed bugs might just repeatedly 'drop' onto the host, only to slip off the shied - to the floor - and climb back up again to its hiding place (behind a picture frame, perhaps)? [did I miss explanation on this?]

    Apologies for toe-stepping. I am not an expert - I just want relief from bed bugs and deserve to know the truth about how to accompish this.

    Regards,
    Jason

    Data:

    bedbugger.com forum topics:
    do-bbs-drop-from-the-ceiling
    preventing-bugs-from-dropping-off-ceiling-to-protected-bed

  68. Nobugsonme

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    User BBF reports on his experience with Jules Noise's trap idea here. He claims that 400 bed bugs were seen and one nymph caught in the trap.

  69. BBF

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    I should note that allegedly, these traps provide the best results when baited with dry ice. I did not have a dry ice and still am not able to locate a good source of dry ice that is not 20 miles away, so I baited the detector/trap with the water + yeast + sugar CO2 "generator". On the first few nights, while I still had my infested mattress, I put the trap/detector in the center of it and watched. Bugs were not fooled, they were walking in all directions except towards the detector. I observed one climb up the fabric skirt, then pretty much near the edge turn around and start crawling away.

    I was catching the bedbugs by the dozen, with my bare hands (and a small box as described in my post) and discarding them, and while I did not specifically count them, I would say the first night I caught and disposed of about 400 of all instars (given that I was discarding them every time there were five in the box, and how many times I feel I walked to the restroom that night).

    However, it seems that the detector reliably catches first instars now when the infestation is on severe decline. Every night I get one or two in the detector. But never adults; adults I have to catch manually.

  70. Nobugsonme

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    BBF,
    The trap above and in the video you posted (by Jules Noise) does not use dry ice unless I am mistaken?

    The dry ice trap is a completely different design and designed and lab tested by an entomologist. The issue with that is that for most people, it's difficult and/or expensive to obtain the required levels of dry ice.

    There are some safety issues (namely, people need to know how to deal with dry ice-- and it may not be suitable for some.)

    For anyone interested, this is the official fact sheet (PDF) from the inventor which explains how to create a bed bug monitor with dry ice.

    For what it's worth, at least one user here found the Bed Bug Beacon (our FAQ on the Bed Bug Beacon)was much less expensive to run based on his/her sources of dry ice. YMMV.


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