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Are Pesticdes Safe

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  1. Bug Slayer

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Feb 6 2011 13:04:42
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    Just wondering how safe are the chemicals they use for BBs,my building will pay for the whole operation,but im thinkn whats the point,they will just move to another apt if they dont spray all apts,this is the reason why i think BBS will never be eliminated from the planet earth.

  2. so unsettling

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Feb 6 2011 14:09:35
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    Well, they never were eliminated from Planet Earth, they just went quieter for a while. Landlords tend to treat apartments one at a time, hoping they won't simply travel to another. I don't know if I have eliminated them from my own, but they don't appear to be with my neighbors at this point. I don't think anything is carved in stone--some of the repellants might drive them deeper into your walls, but that doesn't mean they will necessarily travel to another unit. But then again, they might.

    In my own town, I have only heard of one case where bugs traveled to another apartment. In this situation, a tenant had not reported a major infestation in her apartment, and they eventually migrated to the one next to her. But this was a sizeable infestation, visible to the PCO when he entered her apartment to inspect it.

    Pesticides are safe for most people, so long as you follow the rules for them. PCOS wear masks and other protective gear, and generally people have to be out of the apartment for a few hours after it is applied. If they stay while the PCO works, they have to wear masks and protective gear, too.

    And the point is that we simply have to TRY. I often think that this is something we control rather than eliminate, at least at first. But it seems better to control than to allow it to grow out of control.

  3. Beth

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Feb 6 2011 14:26:35
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    no they aren't. that's why there are MSDS sheets and lawsuits. bed bugs aren't either. again, lawsuits.

  4. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Feb 6 2011 17:36:30
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    Pesticides when used properly pose minimum risk to most people. Pesticide misuse can be problematic to deadly much like with medications. They are dose related and require intelligence and not all are recommended for all or every type of situation.

  5. lurker

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Feb 6 2011 18:21:52
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    Asking if pesticides are safe is like asking if alcohol is safe. It can be but it can be unsafe if you overdo it and children and pets may be more sensitive.

  6. thebedbugresource

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 7 2011 0:16:57
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    If you drink too much water you will suffer from hyper-hydration which can result in death.

    Here is just one example; http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/30/court-awards-16-5m-in-hold-your-wee-for-a-wii-radio-stunt-dea/

    So to define anything as safe is an impossibility.

    Sean

  7. Beth

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 7 2011 11:32:23
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    um,

    pesticides in any quantity are not healthy, unlike water or alcohol, which a certain amount can be good for the heart.

    Pesticides are poisons. Like many medications which contain toxic chemicals (though not all), "professionals" make decisions about how much is "safe" which to them only means "won't cause immediate symptoms of noticeable illness" for MOST adults who also happen to not be elderly or frail.

    Knowing that "safe" amount is important to avoid acute toxicity in MOST adults who also happen to not be elderly or frail (or have poor detoxification pathways in their liver due to genetics or chemical injury) but it is not a guarantee you won't become ill, even if you consider yourself a 35 year old healthy white male at 180 lbs.

    You know.

    Amy

  8. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 7 2011 12:29:24
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    Here is a MSDS for Widex. http://www.officedepot.com/pdf/msds/347930.pdf
    You can find MSDS sheets for almost any standard household cleaner.

    If you plan on drinking it ... I'm guessing you could have a problem just like anything else. A teaspoon of salt is more toxic to us than a teaspoon of the product I use (and thats before I mix it into a gallon of water) so lets have some common sense and facts rather then opinions please.

  9. Beth

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 7 2011 17:30:37
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    Facts:

    Fact: Most household cleaners are toxic if ingested. Not if inhaled or absorbed through the skin.

    Fact: I don't use the ones that are toxic in these conditions because, you;re right, they're problematic as well.

    Fact: Pesticides are poisons. Made for the express purpose of poisoning a living being.

    Fact: Pyrethrin born pesticide illness is real and is not only manifested in people who drink the stuff or rub it all over their skin. That's why there are specifications of how much can be used in what kinds of areas.

    Fact: Household cleaners don't take a state license to operate. There's a reason for that, beyond the liberals getting their panties in a bunch.

    Fact: Bed bugs in NYC are 80 % resistant to pyrethrins.

    Fact: Phantom cut my bugs very well, and its broad off label application in my case caused me to become very weak and develop nasty headaches and nausea

    Fact: The Bedlam we just sprayed was a joke and the bed bugs laughed at us for days afterwards

    Fact: diatomaceous earth is an inhalation hazard, I've experienced this first hand.

    Opinion: We'll see thirty years down the road, if I'm dying from lung cancer or some other cancer linked with pesticide exposure. I have my guesses on which one it will be. If bedbugger is still operational, I'll come back on and let you all know. Right now, with less than a month left until I leave with nothing but laundered clothes, I am counting with glee down the days I won't be coming on here because I will no longer have to think about bed bugs.

    Amy

  10. thebedbugresource

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 7 2011 23:20:49
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    Beth: Fact: Most household cleaners are toxic if ingested. Not if inhaled or absorbed through the skin.
    Oh really???

    This is right off the MSDS of many household products:

    Bleach: Will cause moderate irritation to skin and severe irritation and pain to eyes. Fumes may irritate mucous membranes and cause coughing or pulmonary edema.

    Windex: Potential Health Effects - Exposure routes : Eye, Skin, Inhalation

    Pledge: Potential Health Effects - Exposure routes : Eye, Skin, Inhalation

    Air Fresheners: Toxic in nature; carcinogen; irritates eyes, nose,throat and skin; nervous, digestive, respiratory system damage.

    Antibacterial Products: Often contain triclosan, which is absorbed through the skin and linked to liver damage.

    Teflon: When PTFE (teflon) heats up, it releases toxic gasses that have been linked to cancer, organ failure, reproductive damage, and other harmful health effects.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Fact: Warfarin is a poison designed to kill rodents.
    Fact: Warfarin is used for heart patients to thin blood.

    Fact: Pyrethirn is derived from the Chrysanthemum flower and is consider "natural" and "organic."

    Fact: Codeine and Morphine come from the poppy flower.

    Fact: The word drug itself comes from the Dutch word "droog" (via the French word Drogue), which means 'dried plant'.

    Without pesticides we would undoubtedly all be dead. The diseases spread by rodents and flies alone would have wiped us all out long ago had we not found a way to control their populations.

    3 of the deadliest plagues of all time were/are caused by pests.

    Typhus is caused by lice borne bacteria (associated with rats and mice).

    The Black Plague (carried by fleas on rats) killed between 33-50% of the world's population.

    Malaria kills over 2 million people every year (spread by mosquitoes).

    No one is claiming that pesticides are unilaterally safe. Used with common sense, following label directions, and sparingly they can be of great benefit with no to low risk to human health.

    Beth your one sided arguments and "pesticides and PCOs are evil" on this forum are tiresome.

    Sean

  11. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 7 2011 23:52:42
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    Sean ... I don't think I could say it any better. I'm very tired myself.

  12. tisIsaidthefly

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 0:21:49
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    I am here to tell y'all that these insecticides are NOT anywhere near as safe as you're being led to believe. In particular, if you live in an old ratty building like mine with apartments NOT well sealed
    from each other, God help you if the exterminator sprays for bedbugs right under you and doesn't even warn you (which they're not even legally required to do). How's that for being responsible and adult? My entire life has been nearly destroyed because of people spraying insecticide like it's air freshener. My bad luck in particular is that I'm on a top floor and since fumes rise, I get it all - every time someone sprays. The feeling from being sick from insecticide is something I would not wish on my worst enemy. It is a horror show. It feels like someone has their finger down your throat and you can't swallow because when you do, it makes you vomit. I have literally had to stand over the sink and let saliva fall out of my mouth because if I dared to attempt to swallow it, I'd choke and vomit so badly, I thought I was going to die from not being able to catch my breath. You sweat profusely and you freeze and then it changes and you burn up, like your blood is boiling and your blood pressure will shoot up and your face will get red and your veins stand out. You can't sleep too well because if you do sleep, you dream, horrible dreams that you wake up from frightened, freezing and soaking wet. You have to pee every two seconds. You can't eat, your bones all hurt and your head aches. Really. It makes me furious when I think about it, that most exterminators do not even give TWO THOUGHTS to anybody else when they spray an apartment. The exterminator was down under me spraying for FOUR HOURS and this was in the Summer with the windows closed and the ac recycling the same air. I could hardly even walk for nearly two weeks the first time it happened and I didn't even realize what had caused it till it happened a few more times and I finally learned people were spraying. Can you imagine not even warning the person who lives upstairs from you that you're spraying poison? Oh, and worst of all, besides myself, my poor six year old cat isn't doing too well either and we're worried he may be in renal failure or the beginnings of it. I don't care what anybody tells you - insecticides are NOT nearly as safe as some want you to believe. And not only people are being harmed but bees are dying from insecticides and we need the bees or we won't have food. They told people agent orange was safe too. Sure. Anyway, it is my opinion that NO poisonous substances should be permitted in apartment buildings. Not when there's other methods available that work just as well.

  13. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 0:24:12
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    oh no

  14. tisIsaidthefly

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 0:27:56
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    In fact, here's a story I just read this evening about pesticides killing bees. They're having
    to pollinate crops by hand with feather dusters and it's nowhere near as efficient as what
    the bees can do. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8306970/Einstein-was-right-honey-bee-collapse-threatens-global-food-security.html

  15. tisIsaidthefly

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 0:31:25
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    What kind of foolishness is that Killer Queen? Oh no? OH YES.

  16. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 0:36:24
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  17. tisIsaidthefly

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 0:40:05
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    Killer Queen. Does it not say on all the containers of insecticide that you should not inhale that stuff? Well HOW can I not inhale it when people spray the apartment right beneath me and don't even warn me?

  18. tisIsaidthefly

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 0:45:24
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    Another thing I've been thinking about is that I don't see how it's possible that bed bugs do not carry disease. I betcha nobody would agree to be bitten by a bed bug that just ate from someone with full blown Aids or Hep C etc.

  19. NorthEast

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 10:12:04
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    "Bed Bugs have been found to be infected with some 25 different diesease organisms. Survival time within the bed bug was found to be especially long (147 - 285 days) for the organisms of plague, relapsing fever, tularemia, and Q fever."

    However, there is no conclusive evidence of bed bugs trasmitting diesease.

  20. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 11:57:13
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    I'm sorry I thought to join in here with a comment in regard to the safety of some medical treatments like radiation therapy which may be a means to an end but not without risk, but did not want to offend anyone or be taken the wrong way. Risk benefit analysis, dose relationship and best practices are important with medications and pesticides which when translated means "to kill pestilence as in plague".

  21. Bug Slayer

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 12:04:54
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    IVE READ BB`s were in part respnisble for the black plague,maybe the media dont want us to know and start a panic.Sometimes i think is is a terrorist attck.

  22. Bug Slayer

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 12:08:57
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    NorthEast - 1 hour ago  » 
    "Bed Bugs have been found to be infected with some 25 different diesease organisms. Survival time within the bed bug was found to be especially long (147 - 285 days) for the organisms of plague, relapsing fever, tularemia, and Q fever."
    However, there is no conclusive evidence of bed bugs trasmitting diesease.

    This why i wear rubber boots with sticky tape

  23. Bug Slayer

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 12:12:36
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    tisIsaidthefly - 11 hours ago  » 
    I am here to tell y'all that these insecticides are NOT anywhere near as safe as you're being led to believe. In particular, if you live in an old ratty building like mine with apartments NOT well sealed
    from each other, God help you if the exterminator sprays for bedbugs right under you and doesn't even warn you (which they're not even legally required to do). How's that for being responsible and adult? My entire life has been nearly destroyed because of people spraying insecticide like it's air freshener. My bad luck in particular is that I'm on a top floor and since fumes rise, I get it all - every time someone sprays. The feeling from being sick from insecticide is something I would not wish on my worst enemy. It is a horror show. It feels like someone has their finger down your throat and you can't swallow because when you do, it makes you vomit. I have literally had to stand over the sink and let saliva fall out of my mouth because if I dared to attempt to swallow it, I'd choke and vomit so badly, I thought I was going to die from not being able to catch my breath. You sweat profusely and you freeze and then it changes and you burn up, like your blood is boiling and your blood pressure will shoot up and your face will get red and your veins stand out. You can't sleep too well because if you do sleep, you dream, horrible dreams that you wake up from frightened, freezing and soaking wet. You have to pee every two seconds. You can't eat, your bones all hurt and your head aches. Really. It makes me furious when I think about it, that most exterminators do not even give TWO THOUGHTS to anybody else when they spray an apartment. The exterminator was down under me spraying for FOUR HOURS and this was in the Summer with the windows closed and the ac recycling the same air. I could hardly even walk for nearly two weeks the first time it happened and I didn't even realize what had caused it till it happened a few more times and I finally learned people were spraying. Can you imagine not even warning the person who lives upstairs from you that you're spraying poison? Oh, and worst of all, besides myself, my poor six year old cat isn't doing too well either and we're worried he may be in renal failure or the beginnings of it. I don't care what anybody tells you - insecticides are NOT nearly as safe as some want you to believe. And not only people are being harmed but bees are dying from insecticides and we need the bees or we won't have food. They told people agent orange was safe too. Sure. Anyway, it is my opinion that NO poisonous substances should be permitted in apartment buildings. Not when there's other methods available that work just as well.

    HOLY crap.

  24. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 12:26:06
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    Pesticides are poison. That's the whole point: you're trying to kill something.

    Most of us do not want to live with bed bugs, and for many of us, poisons are the best (cheapest, most available) option.

    How do we do this without harming humans?

    We can try to find a knowledgeable and experienced pest management professional who practices IPM and does not do the unskilled "baseboard jockey" routine.

    We can select (or speak to PMPs about selecting) alternative treatments (such as heat/thermal, steam and dust, etc.) if we are especially vulnerable to pesticide sprays (e.g. people who are ill, pregnant, have babies under 1 year, chemically sensitive, etc.).

    If we are not the ones paying for treatment, the previous option becomes difficult. I am not sure where the law stands regarding NYC tenants, for example, who need bed bug treatment but cannot be exposed to spray pesticides. Can they insist on steam and dust, for example? Perhaps someone who has encountered this can enlighten us.

    tisisaidthefly, I am sympathetic to your concerns about neighbors being notified, since I also live in a building with a lot of cracks and crevices between units.

    However, I note that you also have another thread which addresses that specific issue of notifying neighbors, which is current. I would suggest continuing the conversation about notifying neighbors on that thread.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  25. Beth

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 8 2011 12:33:40
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    Sean--

    Right, I don't use bleach, windex, pledge or any of that nonsense. You can clean a house and even mold up without using any toxins. And wipe out insect infestations as well. In fact, bed bugs CAN be treated without toxins if it weren't for the thermal lobby. What do I use to clean that 100% disinfects everything? 100% natural soap. Laundry detergent? 100% natural soap. Dish soap? 100% natural soap. Toothpaste? Salt and water. Deodorant? I don't use it. Window and mold cleaner? Orange oil. You are talking to the wrong person about all of that stuff on the shelves at CVS. I don't shop there. Just like I don't buy fruit sprayed with Monsanto pesticide that has also been genetically modified. I know plenty of organic farmers that have found ways other than dangerous chemicals to ensure a good harvest as there are pco's who have found ways other than pesticides to treat insect infestations. In fact, the environmental company near here admitted to me they treat every pest successfully with all natural methods BUT bed bugs and then admitted, the pesticides don't work either. So I'm exhausted too, that conventional treatment DOESN'T WORK in too large of a percentage of cases. I'm not saying it's the pco's fault. Obviously, more funding and research need to occur, and more challenging the lobbies, but don't claim to know everything when the top entomologists in the country are declaring bed bug infestations "unstoppable" and "inevitable" (to quote Michael Potter).

    Pyrethrins, yes, are from crysanthemums, but in the form of pesticide spray, are manufactured out of their natural state. The only exception to this I know of is, I believe, Pyganic dust. People can have allergic reactions to any kind of all natural treatment if they have hay fever, asthma, etc., and this is also true of pyganic dust and diatomaceous earth. So I'm not saying all natural is 100% safe. But safer? Yes.

    If you're tired, it might be from all the pesticides you're being exposed to.

    My partner is a carpenter and used to using a lot of dangerous chemicals, so I am well aware of the mentality that says, just spray some crud all around and buy the cheapest paint you can find at a hardware store and you'll be fine. She is finally learning, especially after Bedlam did nothing for our bed bug problem (I allowed her to spray it so she could see for herself these pesticides are useless, and caused me to develop nausea, weakness and headaches), that there are other ways. We had less bites with vacuuming and steaming. People just need to educate themselves on non toxic living. In terms of bed bugs, if you catch it before they go into the walls, steam works. If you don't, then thermal structural treatment would suffice and if my partner and I had enough of value, we'd be doing that. Pesticides exist to offer a cheap way of ridding pests, not because they are more effective than less toxic methods. I have tried chemical treatments, twice with exterminators, once with vikane and once diy. Sprays don't work on bed bugs well enough to endure the exposure, especially since it is such a long term exposure. In fact, I think I read an interview with Dini Miller where she says that bed bug extermination is considered high level pesticide exposure for the residents owing to how long people have to stew in a lot of chemicals. So don't fool people into thinking bed bug treatment is the equivalent of giving your pets Frontline or setting up a cockroach bait. It's not.

    I asked my partner the other day: why ARE pesticides cheaper? Doesn't it take a lot of energy, chemists and factory space, etc. to manufacture them? My guess is lobbying. If anyone has another explanation of why they are cheaper than less toxic methods, I'd like to know. If crysanthemums have pesticidal properties, why not just smear them all over our bed sheets? I'm assuming that wouldn't work.

    Amy


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