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allow do on bed?

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Beth

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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Feb 5 2010 0:01:49
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so the pco came today, did tempo dust and suspend on perimeter, all wood furniture and bed. found no live activity, i did find one molting skin underneath pillow case. pillow in dryer for an hour. i bathed my dog, myself, living out of bags. tomorrow spray my truck. nothing outside inside shoes, jacket, purse). threw out more stuff, any clothing that seemed easy to nest in like wool or hard to wash and stuff i don't wear a lot. gonna save up for a packtite and the pco recommended interceptors if i continue to be bitten. found a place i can crash now and again if need be for sleep.

my question is: since it is baiting time: shoud i allow my dog on my bed--like for a few days? i fear if i don't the bugs will just go for her and miss the poison but i read no pets on bed.

she is STILL itching after her bath(same spot for a week). began as soon as she laid on the floor. forgot to vacuum right before he came but did a few days ago. should i vacuum tomorrow or suck up poison?

the pco treated the vacuum also so it should be ok for a couple weeks use right if i clean out the container?'

if the bedbugs survived this i will be astonished. i even threw out my juicer and rice cooker as theyhad been in my bedroom before the move. he said to packtite or toss my books. not cold enough here. shoes in dryer. hot shots in car. and they won't generally nest in electronics/metal/glass/plastic but spray with alcohol before bringing back in. sound good?

pray no more bites.

amy
bait

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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Feb 5 2010 0:18:10
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Prepare to be astonished.

I don't think dogs are good at carrying bed bugs around with them. Some people will tell you not to let the dog in the bed, but I don't quite get it since the bugs don't have the equipment to "hang onto" hair or skin. When they hitchhike, they travel in comfy spots that cradle them, like pockets, shoes, purses, luggage.

Of course, anything's possible with these bugs. They continue to amaze even the pros.

Bait
wchicago

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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Feb 5 2010 2:19:10
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hi amy

i too am praying no more bites for you. climbups are on their way to you soon!
how about if you give your dog a towel to sleep on, on the floor (if she does not have a bed) and then throw that towel in the dryer EVERY DAY.
bait is right though, these bugs can't really hang on well to fur -so they probably would not be on her anyway. but i understand how you want to be careful.

for my dog, i got her one of these
http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?sku=958883
and put the legs in drinking glasses so bed bugs could not climb up on the bed.
i steamed the top part every night, it really cut down on her bites.

best of luck, i am so glad you're getting sleep
Winston O. Buggy

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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Feb 5 2010 10:17:09
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While it is true that dogs and cats are not preferred host and thus unlikely to carry bbs in your current situation with bbs under stress you might want to keep Fido on the floor for a few days, just to be careful.
Beth

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 6 2010 15:32:17
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thank you chicago and winston-

she has been on the floor two nights and i am not sleeping now because she keeps on whining to come into the bedroom. i think i sadly will have to put her in my large bathroom for a bit. i may have gotten a bite last night on my finger, but unlikely place right, plus no swelling but it was at that time (5am) i woke up to my finger itching. i need to find something to do wth my pillow. unfortunately, i don't have w/d at home. i should probably encase it. until then wondering how to sleep, maybe on my sweatshirt? so uncomfortable. do those allergy pillow encasements at target work?

can i vacuum the floors you think? i should call the pco.

thank you for the interceptors! sorely needed!

best to all-
Amy
ActionK9

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 6 2010 15:38:50
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Call A PCO.
bait

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 6 2010 15:59:10
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A finger is a very likely place for a bite.
Beth

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 6 2010 16:20:38
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Action K9--

had 4 treatments by pco already. have a pco. these things are from the devil. may call a different one. the one i use is a "green" company certified in bedbugs. maybe i just need a not so green company that knows nothing and just douses my place.

amy
Louise

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 6 2010 18:32:16
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Beth - 1 day ago »
he said to packtite or toss my books. not cold enough here. shoes in dryer. hot shots in car. and they won't generally nest in electronics/metal/glass/plastic but spray with alcohol before bringing back in. sound good?

Hi, Amy.

A pillow encasement (the Mattress Safe ones are relatively inexpensive) would help you with your pillow.

Also, are you using Hot Shots in your car? I'm pretty sure you're only supposed to use those in places were people are NOT going to be present. Is your car parked outside? If it's in a garage that people frequent, or if you are in your car for any reason, please DO NOT USE the Hot Shots there.

Louise
cilecto

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 6 2010 21:25:20
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You're supposed to be sleeping in your bed to bait the bugs while the chemicals still have potency. Spraying the outside of electronics with alcohol will not do anything for any bugs inside them, but will damage their finish and may damage their function.
Beth

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 6 2010 22:46:13
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hot shots he said i could spray and then leave it overnight for 24 hours. i have also been advised to buy bedlam and use it in there with murphy's soap by someone. i dunno. gotta figure out the car situation. the pco didn't have a lot of ideas on it. anyone? i haven't beenin it for two days fearing recontamination.

still in my bed for afew nights to bait. but the q was about my dog being bait...

thanks!
amy
DougSummersMS

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Feb 7 2010 0:22:56
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Hi Amy

Good to hear that you are formulating a plan and seeking feedback on your ideas.

Bait is absolutely correct about your dog. It is rare for dogs to carry bed bugs or to be involved in the reintroduction of bed bugs into an isolated area under normal circumstances.

I don't disagree entirely with Winston (a respected entomologist), but I think that allowing your dog to sleep on your bed would function like a surrogate human to draw bed bugs to your bed from the environment. It sounds like you understand that you need to keep the bed isolated.

Your dog will give off heat and CO2... if the pet must be kept in a lightly infested environment anyway... I personally would place my pet on the isolated bed after brushing and flea combing for physical removal to control for the rare chance that a bug is clinging to your pet... avoid excessive washing with soap because it may aggravate some skin issues... It reduces the possibility that your pet will be bitten and may reduce the need for you to feel that you should be sleeping in your bed to function as bait.
Louise

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Feb 7 2010 1:48:44
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Beth - 3 hours ago »
hot shots he said i could spray and then leave it overnight for 24 hours. i have also been advised to buy bedlam and use it in there with murphy's soap by someone. i dunno. gotta figure out the car situation. the pco didn't have a lot of ideas on it. anyone? i haven't beenin it for two days fearing recontamination.
still in my bed for afew nights to bait. but the q was about my dog being bait...
thanks!
amy

Sorry; I must have misunderstood. I thought Hot Shots were DVVP strips, not a spray. Carry on.
wchicago

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Feb 7 2010 12:11:53
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hi
gotta weigh in on the hot shots ddvp strips. it is A-OK for them to be used in a car, even one in a garage, even if others share that garage, as long as there is not a person in the same space with the strip for more than 4 hours per day.
seriously, i read the 396 page (oh how i wish i was kidding) EPA report on DDVP before using a large number of the strips in a rather unorthodox fashion (with my PCO's blessing). i'll know if my last-ditch-crazy-ddvp treatment worked in a week or so, and will let y'all know either way.

aaaanyway, the amount of exposure folks would have walking in and out of a garage is negligible.
from the jillions and jillions of studies on this stuff in the EPA report, here is a quick summary of how a DDVP strip can hurt you: (a) if it gets on your skin --seriously, you do *not* want to absorb this stuff through your skin and this is actually the vulnerability point of highest toxicity for consumers. were we using the spray version in a mushroom house or dairy farm, well it'd be all kinds of dangerous, but for the strips just DON'T get it on your skin. thats why they are in protective plastic casings), (b) if you inhale a lot of the sublimating vapors for hours and hours, day after day. short term brief exposures (under 6 hours) to the amounts we're talking about from 1 or 2 strips in a car have no measurable impact on mammal's cholinesterase levels (c) if you eat a lot of it (um, yeah, just don't do that).

in a closed car, in a garage space, with people wandering in and out of that garage in normal fashion (i.e., not camping out there for hours) it'll be just fine. seriously. totally totally safe.
obvs., air the HECK out of your car before you drive it again, and because the absorption through skin is actually a faster route to ill health AND because measurably absorbable residues stay on fabric longer than you might think (1 study showed 12 days post treatment, people could still absorb a small amount through the skin from carpet residue) i would put plastic shower curtain or bag on seat when driving it after the airing out period. and don't allow your dog in there for 2 weeks post-airing out (again, because of possibility she might absorb some through her skin, not because of inhalation issues).
good luck!
Beth

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Feb 7 2010 15:06:51
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hey everyone, thanks for the replies. after the last spray and setting up the bag situation, etc, i feel more on top of the bugs. all wood furniture and vacuum treated, perimeter protected. questionables quarantined for packtiting or disposal. all laundry bagged air tight washed with corrosive detergent only possibly one bite in three nights (that woke me up anyway) and my dog is sleeping on a towel in the living room and i wipe her coat down every night. after tonight if i sleep ok she can be in my bed. which i intend to try to get to the laundry to toss my bedding and her towel in the dryer for an hour then bathe her one more time in the zodiac. the trip to this kind of living has been a nightmare but it's becoming more routine. my three friends who come over (i only let them in the kitchen), are into the routine too. i keep telling them: this is no longer a problem of the destitute. it's an epidemic and you all could get hit. i will never stay the night somewhere in the same way again or buy used furniture from unknown sources. the banning of stronger pesticides has affected my life greatly. when i was 15 i got very bad lymes disease that is still with me and the cause of my depression. now the bedbugs. i am chemically sensitive because of the lymes, but i would rather some respiratory issues that can be medicated than my life invaded and controlled by barely visible vermin.

i would have never been able to beat the infestation in my last apartment as it had gone on for months and was no doubt in the neighbors who refused treatment, and the walls. so it's good in a way i moved, albeit having to live like a monk who has horrible ocd a gorgeous apartment screaming for decoration.

the pco said unlikely these things are in electronics, none are in my bedroom anyway. so i am just going with that. he said they are too slippery, the bugs don't like them that much. i don't know if i will ever take my books out of my truck.

i am going to use the spray then in my car as he suggested ( i had already bought it, he just told me it was safe to use and should work re: pyrethrin base and to let the car sit overnight).

i want to call the pco tomorrow and ask if i can use alcohol on the upholstered kitchen chair i sit on.

one last question for now: can i vacuum after tempo dust and suspend are used on what he wrote was "perimeter" (does this mean floor?). i only ask this weekend as they are closed and i feel i should be dong everything possible in this time i think i can beat them after this spray. only one bite on the second night by a nymph. that's pretty good. it means they are dying off, no adults. unless they are simply attacking my dog in the living room. they seem to really like her. i am only twice her size. i've treated her for fleas (two baths, frontline), this doesn't seem to be the problem.

the last piece of this will be getting my iron levels up, no small feat for someone who can't tolerate iron pills. i'll have to eat beef liver or find a natural supplement. so tired still but hanging on.

thanks-
amy
DougSummersMS

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Feb 7 2010 23:58:53
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Amy

Try oatmeal ... it is a good source of iron.
Louise

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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Feb 8 2010 14:46:44
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wchicago - 1 day ago »
hi
gotta weigh in on the hot shots ddvp strips. it is A-OK for them to be used in a car, even one in a garage, even if others share that garage, as long as there is not a person in the same space with the strip for more than 4 hours per day.

Hey, wchicago, thanks! This is good to know!

What if the garage is attached to the house? Would that change anything?

wchicago - 1 day ago » seriously, i read the 396 page (oh how i wish i was kidding) EPA report on DDVP before using a large number of the strips in a rather unorthodox fashion (with my PCO's blessing). i'll know if my last-ditch-crazy-ddvp treatment worked in a week or so, and will let y'all know either way.

Hey, was this the secret weapon you were writing about a few weeks ago?

And good for you, reading that tome!

I'm still a little confused. There's a DVVP spray as well as the DVVP strips? Wouldn't the spray become more "absorbed" into fabric? I'm thinking the strips would be safer, somehow, that the spray...

Louise
wchicago

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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Feb 8 2010 22:18:45
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hi louise!
this is indeed the secret weapon i was talking about. . .and the room s being aired out now <still tarped off from the rest of the apartment> so i won't know for another week or more whether the treatment worked! i'm going to get another canine inspection as soon as it is safe for the dog to come in.

i would feel totally ok with the strips in a garage attached to a house as long as there was good structural separation as well as decent ventilation in the house itself.
and there IS ddvp spray but consumers have no access to it and that is a VERY good thing. the spray actually has caused most of the fatalities because it is more easily absorbed through the skin. seriously, one PCO had it leak on his shoulder and he died. truly scary stuff and i am very glad mere consumers cannot get anywhere near it. the spray also is not used in residences -mostly industrial farm uses (mushroom houses and dairy farms, oddly enough).

ddvp is most dangerous when absorbed dermally, next most dangerous is ddvp being inhaled, especially when being sprayed at fumigation levels (not very dangerous at all with the slow fumigant and lower levels of the strip), least dangerous by oral ingestion. weird, no? its actually safest to eat it not that we would or should (note to all sleep deprived folks reading this, DO NOT EAT IT).

the strips have actually not been associated with very many injuries or illnesses and even fewer deaths. that is why they are still available to consumers off the shelf. reading about ddvp spray is genuinely so terrifying that i would actually live with bed bugs if the spray was my only alternative to kill them. seriously. heartbreaking stories and lab reports of children and adults affected by ddvp spray and its residue before it was banned from residential use. it is very very good we cannot get our hands on it because desperate people do stupid things sometimes.

i think amy is using hot shot spray in bags - but that is NOT ddvp spray, hot shot spray is a mix of pyrethrins like lambda cyhalothrin. i didn't know spray in a bag was effective, but obvs. her pco knows more about this stuff than me.

ok, my geek-out on ddvp is now over. i'm sure that was more than you wanted to know. sorry
Louise

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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Feb 9 2010 2:08:58
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wchicago - 3 hours ago »
hi louise!
this is indeed the secret weapon i was talking about. . .and the room s being aired out now <still tarped off from the rest of the apartment> so i won't know for another week or more whether the treatment worked! i'm going to get another canine inspection as soon as it is safe for the dog to come in.

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing about the results (once they're in!). This could be very interesting...

That makes sense about the spray being super-dangerous. I, too, am glad it's not available to the average joe.

How long should a car be aired out that has had DVVP strips hanging in it, would you think? And how long would the car need to have the DVVP strips in it for the fumigant to be effective? (Did you answer this already? I apologize if you did.)

wchicago - 3 hours ago » least dangerous by oral ingestion. weird, no? its actually safest to eat it not that we would or should (note to all sleep deprived folks reading this, DO NOT EAT IT).

wchicago - 3 hours ago »
i think amy is using hot shot spray in bags - but that is NOT ddvp spray, hot shot spray is a mix of pyrethrins like lambda cyhalothrin. i didn't know spray in a bag was effective, but obvs. her pco knows more about this stuff than me.

Ah, I get it. Thanks for the clarification.

wchicago - 3 hours ago » ok, my geek-out on ddvp is now over. i'm sure that was more than you wanted to know. sorry

Please. You're on a bedbug website. This is just what happens, isn't it? I NEVER wanted to know as much as I now do about bedbugs...but here we are. Knowledge is power, even if ignorance is bliss. (Sigh. Those were the days...)

So-ooooo...since you've read everything there is to read about DVVP , would you happen to know if temperature impacts its effectiveness? Would it work in an unheated building during a cold Canadian winter, do you think?

Louise
wchicago

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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Feb 9 2010 13:13:43
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hi louise

would you happen to know if temperature impacts its effectiveness? Would it work in an unheated building during a cold Canadian winter, do you think?

alas, no. or at least, i would worry about it working as effectively. bed bugs gotta breathe this stuff, and their respiration rates go down in the cold. i don't know (though i'm sure its knowable, and i bet i even read it at some point) if it changes the sublimation rate as well. my guess is yes -that it probably sublimates slower in the cold, but i don't know how much slower and how to adjust the timing for both slower sublimation and bed bug slower respiration. either way - its recommended for normal room temp, and that's how i would use it.

for a car, at room temp (i.e., heated garage) i would think 2-3 weeks will kill everyone (2 should, but 3 absolutely will -even if you get late egg hatch, for example). then i would air it out for a week before driving, and after that week i would clean the steering wheel and dash before use as well as drive with plastic sheeting on the driver's seat for another week. i think the latter two are probably not entirely necessary, but just to have peace of mind about skin absorption -because again, there was one study showing residue remained on carpet and was measurable in people's urine after they were on the carpet, up to 15 days after. the 15 day post treatment levels were measurable, but seemingly safe -it was not enough to impact cholinesterase levels, for example (which is what you worry about with this stuff). but still -i'm all for absorbing as little ddvp as possible - thats why i would use the plastic sheeting while driving, and to be completely paranoid, i wouldn't let kids, dogs, or other small mammals ride in the car for probably 3 weeks after treatment.

thermaling or vikaning a car is probably easier if its available. but if not and you have a heated garage, i'd use ddvp.
hope this helps!
Beth

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 13 2010 13:56:12
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wchicago...

I got the interceptors! Thank you! No bites in two nights. No signs of them in the interceptors!

Only bites seem to be...in my truck. which means ihave to spray it. I am so afraid of the chemical. trying to find someone else to do it for me..

alsoo with your drawer liner and my therapist giving me an old air mattress i can crash somewhere else if need be.

if any are here they are nymph stragglers.

amy
wchicago

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 13 2010 17:31:58
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hi amy
yay on the interceptors (ignore my pm) and YAY even more on the no bites in 2 nights. WHOO!!!!!!!

so sorry about your truck
i just read your stragglers post, and its very good you have them corralled there and they are pissed and hungry. i wish they would just freeze, but alas, thats unlikely. i hope you find someone who can spray and you can be rid of this nightmare once and for all! you deserve it after all you've been through.
sending good thoughts your way. . .
Beth

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 13 2010 17:39:16
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thank you w!

amy

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