Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Tools/ideas for fighting bed bugs

A sleeping chamber might solve most problems

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  1. bb2u

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 11:09:47
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    Bedbugs attack at night when we're asleep - 99% of the time for most people unless you have an infestation from hell. Imagine a sleeping chamber consisting of a sealed frame with an access door (that seals tightly of course) with ventilation coming from outside and exhausting high up a wall where the bedbugs don't congregate or it could exhaust outside. If the bedbugs can't bite you, won't they go somewhere else? If there is no food, won't they eventually leave your area? An added benefit would be that this chamber could be made rather soundproof (if the ventilation input and output had several curves in it that would filter much of the exterior noise) and lightproof resulting in a much better quality of sleep. I wonder if anyone has tried this? The challenges would be mostly in the ventilation system I would think. Any thoughts on this?

  2. spideyjg

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 11:47:16
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    The only true way to solve the problem is killing the bugs, period.

    Jim

  3. Beth

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 12:05:43
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    i thought this was kind of a joke by the title, but it seems you are serious. I totally understand your sentiment. The problem is the bugs will bite during the day, even in light infestations, if they don't have access at night. In fact, I find the idea of bedbugs being nocturnal slighly erroneous. I actually think they bite so much at night because you are easy to find there as you are there for a long period of time. Bedbugs are just attracted to CO2, possibly our scent also, not darkness. I find the bedbugs will bite me in bed no matter the time of day, though they do seem to become more active when night falls.

    Amy

  4. miserableone

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 12:23:43
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    I dont think just keeping them from biting is a good idea. If you have them and they arent biting thats great for you and you only. You could still spread them to family members and friends. Killing is the ONLY option. I think most people will agree.

  5. Ratorja

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 12:28:00
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    The problem with your scenario is that the rest of your house (mostly the living room where I assume most of the other time is spent) is totally fair game. Bed bugs have no problem living in your couch. They will definitely not just go away if they can't get to you at night in your bed.

  6. Beth

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 12:31:26
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    and bedbugs LOVE wood floors.

  7. kirads09

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 14:06:24
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    I love the concept though. I have thought about a tanning bed. You sleep in there (with it off of course). I wouldn't be suprised if someone has tried sleeping in a coffin like chamber.

    In reality, the others are right. It would probably just bring them out more in the day and/or disperse elsewhere in the home.

  8. Jenn28

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 14:27:13
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    bb2u,

    While everyone says the only way is to kill them (which is true) you have a good point. When you're going through this and you want a good night sleep so bad and you're at the point where you get so mentally worn out, you'll think of anything that would bring you some peace, comfort and sleep! I like it, it's creative

  9. DeedleBeetle

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 15:45:51
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    what about a bb net that's fine enough not to let bbs through..sort of like a mosquito net but the bb net tucks around your body somehow and not your bed?

    And we had a few people suggest that ventilated air by fan keeps bbs away at night....is that because the C02 is dispersed and blown away from the body before the bbs can identify it's source?

  10. parakeets

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 19:08:13
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    I love anyone brainstorming here about possible ways to win over bedbugs. The thing about brainstorming is to encourage all ideas to come out, even those that might not initially seem workable. We'll need our collective imagination to beat bedbugs.

  11. bb2u

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 19:23:10
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    DeedleBeetle - 3 hours ago  » 
    what about a bb net that's fine enough not to let bbs through..sort of like a mosquito net but the bb net tucks around your body somehow and not your bed?
    And we had a few people suggest that ventilated air by fan keeps bbs away at night....is that because the C02 is dispersed and blown away from the body before the bbs can identify it's source?

    Has this been actually documented? If so, this might be a crucial step in our road to sanity. And actually its key to having good air quality since our air quality is usually ruined by our own exhaled CO2. There are CO2 sensors available. It would be interesting to employ them to see how much of a reduction a fan can make. Of course you have to have a fresh air supply and you have to exhaust the air at the same time. We need to know: If CO2 is immediately exhausted, will bed bugs even enter the room? Or, if there is nothing to attract them to they explore or is it only by attraction to CO2?

    A point many people make over and over: We'll never beat bed bugs. All we can hope to do is use repellents or not attract them in the first place. The fact they can live 6 months without food is discouraging of course. But we need to know: What do they do in those 6 months? Hang out with their buddies or go out exploring even if there is no CO2? Remember that even if you kill every one in your place, new ones will be introduced sooner or later because there is foot traffic. Its an ongoing cat and mouse game.

    Also I wonder if diet has any affect on people's reactions to bed bugs? I'm vegan and eat no processed foods and have almost no reactions to bed bug bites. Do certain foods make us more reactive possibly? Because if you don't react much to the bites you can be more patient in the tactics implemented thereby ensuring eventual success.

  12. bb2u

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 19:26:11
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    DeedleBeetle - 3 hours ago  » 
    what about a bb net that's fine enough not to let bbs through..sort of like a mosquito net but the bb net tucks around your body somehow and not your bed?

    Forgot to mention - there are tiny bed bugs, only about 1/32" across. You'll need some mighty fine netting. Is there such a product?

  13. bb2u

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 19:28:30
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    miserableone - 7 hours ago  » 
    I dont think just keeping them from biting is a good idea. If you have them and they arent biting thats great for you and you only. You could still spread them to family members and friends. Killing is the ONLY option. I think most people will agree.

    I'm thinking of the perspective of apartment living. Others like yourself, I think, are thinking in terms of house living. But I suppose that if they are not eradicated, they will reproduce so the problem later is immense.

  14. Eve

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 19:30:47
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    bb2u - 4 minutes ago  » 
    Also I wonder if diet has any affect on people's reactions to bed bugs? I'm vegan and eat no processed foods and have almost no reactions to bed bug bites. Do certain foods make us more reactive possibly? Because if you don't react much to the bites you can be more patient in the tactics implemented thereby ensuring eventual success.

    I'm a counter example. I don't react to the bites either. Or rather I get red polka dots but they don't itch at all and I only detect them by looking (usually in the mirror).

    Occasionally there is an actual food molecule in among the additives I call a diet. But that's an inadvertence. (OK, I'm exaggerating.) But a shameful percentage of my diet is processed and I wish I could be a vegan but I don't cook much. Hate kitchen work.

    Eve

  15. bb2u

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    Fri Jul 16 2010 19:32:30
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    Beth - 7 hours ago  » 
    i thought this was kind of a joke by the title, but it seems you are serious. I totally understand your sentiment. The problem is the bugs will bite during the day, even in light infestations, if they don't have access at night. In fact, I find the idea of bedbugs being nocturnal slighly erroneous. I actually think they bite so much at night because you are easy to find there as you are there for a long period of time. Bedbugs are just attracted to CO2, possibly our scent also, not darkness. I find the bedbugs will bite me in bed no matter the time of day, though they do seem to become more active when night falls.
    Amy

    In my situation, I've never seen a bb during the day. And they never bother me except when I'm sleeping. Now this could be because my infestation is minor. And if nothing is done, it will become major where perhaps I would be bitten during the day and not necessarily in bed.

    I think most everybody would sleep better in a lightproof, soundproof sleeping chamber though. Especially with fresh air being pumped in directly from outside. The only danger to this scenario that I can see is if there is a fire or some disturbance you might not be aware of because of the soundproof nature of the enclosure. If you made the chamber bulletproof and fireproof, it could double as a safe room....lol.

  16. Eve

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 19:45:35
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    I'm an advocate of an enclosed (or en-closable) sleep area but not for the purpose you mention. I would like to be able to flip a switch and have it heat to 120oF for several hours to occasionally clear whatever bugs are trying to make their home in the bed. Presumably in a setup like this, the bed would be designed to be thermal treated, i.e., correct materials, a built in habitat so bugs are happy to create homes right there after they feed, etc.)

    Then I sleep in the bed normally, letting in whatever bugs want to join me. If I notice bites the next morning, on goes the heater either on a timer or if I'm heat paranoid, when I get home from work. As far as we know, heat treatment like this is not a repellant so eventually we run out of bed bugs.

    A similar device for my easy chair would be cool too. I'd heat both devices until I stop noticing bites.

    Not an instant cure, but for areas of the world where bed bugs are endemic, I can see this approach being useful for general housekeeping. Also it would help if the person using this is non-reactive. Though even a reactive person might find this useful as a giant packtite.

    Remember, that 120oF while deadly to bugs is not necessarily that hot. Not oven hot. It's uncomfortable for people but they can move around in it -- people who offer thermal treatments have to when they monitor the process.

    Eve

  17. bb2u

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 19:57:57
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    >> I would like to be able to flip a switch and have it heat to 120oF for several hours to occasionally clear whatever bugs are trying to make their home in the bed.

    I forgot to mention in my original post one could connect a heater to the air intake and my plugging the exhaust, sterilize larger objects as well as bedding though bedding can be sterilized in hot dryers.

    >>A similar device for my easy chair would be cool too. I'd heat both devices until I stop noticing bites.

    How about an insulated tent that envelopes chairs and a heater is placed inside? I wonder how long it takes to kill a bb if its burrowed deep into the insulated fabric? And at what temperature?

    >> Remember, that 120oF while deadly to bugs is not necessarily that hot. Not oven hot. It's uncomfortable for people but they can move around in it -- people who offer thermal treatments have to when they monitor the process.

    I've heard of large apartment buildings with saunas using them as sterilization areas for furniture of the building. You bring up some interesting points.

  18. DeedleBeetle

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 20:38:54
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    Eve..,.i just love your sleeping chamber idea...you wouldn't have to be inside it, all you have to do is heat it up like a human size packtite and then after heating it up to a certain temp for certain time, let it cool down and climb in....

    the only thing that skeeves me out about the idea is that i wouldn't like to sleep on a mattress that has dead bed bugs in it. Perhaps there is a fan inside like the packtite has and the fan blows the dead bugs to the bottom of the device...in other words, the sleeping part sort of hangs or stands away from the bottom of the sleeping chamber (like the rack in the packtite) and the dead bugs fall down and can be vacuumed out of the bottom of the sleeping chamber...

    here's the name of the product: "SleepTite" and the first of the line should be for newborns, infants and toddlers...? (rethinking that...'cause i can already smell the lawsuits coming)...Maybe work out the kinks first with a single adult size "SleepTite."

    C'mon PackTite people....get goin'

    But i'm still thinking that it should be some kind of collapsable device (like the way the packtite arrives)...so that it snaps open and there's room for one person (to start...later they can make a size big enough for two adults). and you a single mattress in there...it should be high enough so that people can stack ..say...two mattresses on top of each other for mroe cushioning. You zip it from the inside?

    P.S - PT people, er..um...you know where to send the check! ;-D

    The top third should be made of that netting or some kind of breathable fabric that bbs can't get past...what does 1/32" look like?

    I don't know if anyone has tested whether a fan dispersing CO2 would make a CO2 generator less attractive to bbs...but it seems like it would be fairly easy to design such a test...You would need two identical C02 generators sitting in identical individual bb trappers. Each trap is situated in a separate chamber big enough to dilute the CO2 to levels well to the almost indistinguisable levels. (How much C02 does a human give off with each breath? How high do C02 levels get in a room - say 12ft by 12 ft? Over what period of time? 6 hours?) Each C02 generator chamber is equidistant from the place where the bugs are introduced -- say 200 bbs...set the bbs free and see where they prefer to go? Would they all or significantly all go to the chamber with the CO2 generator is without a fan dispersing the gas? or would they go in equal or almost equal number to the chamber that contains the C02 generator with a fan dispersing the C02 to negligible levels?

    It seems to me you would have to set up a similar test but with both C02 generators having fans and another with both CO2 generators without fans....to see if there is any difference in the results. those two other tests can be run at the same time but in distinct chamber systems.

    i would like to help design that test.

  19. Eve

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 20:40:42
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    The key to the plan is a really good thermostat so that the air is kept as far as possible at 120oF (so nothing comes close to igniting). Then you can keep it going for quite a number of hours.

    In my few forays into cooking, I use a slow cooker and am not worried at all about keeping it going for 10 to 12 hours while I'm at work. The temperatures inside that pot are way over 120oF (closer to 212oF as the stew is boiling).

    I understand that the behaviour of bed bugs under heat stress is to burrow more and more deeply into their habitat rather than try to escape the chamber. Even if you can't accomplish a complete kill, you can make it very very difficult for them to reproduce. Also, we don't have to heat the bugs to 120oF, just 113oF for a little while. I've even read (though I can't find it right now) a table that indicated that eggs become less viable at prolonged exposure to even lower temperatures.

    The reason I prefer a chamber method to thermal treatment of the entire room or apartment is the problem of ruining structural components and electronics. Presumably, one wouldn't have electronics or even electrical wires inside the bed or sofa chamber. This would make possible slightly higher temperatures inside the unit.

    Eve

  20. DeedleBeetle

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Jul 16 2010 20:59:49
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    Hi again Eve...

    i guess my question for you is: Why wouldn't heating the SleepTite up to 120 degrees for an hour before using for sleep sufficient? Why would it have to keep running for a number of hours? Oh..you're saying that it will take a number of hours for the SleepTite to reach 120 degrees? Right...So it has to be like the PT where there's a kind of scaffold inside ...the bed sits upon on a raised platform like the PT has and there that same kind of structure that the PT has that keeps the top of he ST from falling down on top mattress which is heating up inside.

    i think the SleepTite is about three times the size of the PT. Three times as long...three times deep and three times wide. Would it need several heaters or one bigger heater?

    And i don't see why it would be any less effective than as the PT is at killing bugs in our clothes and other belongings. It's not a partial kill...it's a good dependable kill.

  21. mcsmcs

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    Fri Jul 16 2010 21:04:25
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    Just have to say....you guys crack me up.

    Honestly, I think a lot of people would love a good night's sleep. Knowing you can go to bed without getting bitten allows you to sleep and I think biting is more tolerable during the day - it distracts you from your activities, but not as much as it would distract you from sleep.

  22. bb2u

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    Fri Jul 16 2010 21:06:31
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    >> i would like to help design that test.

    In less than 24 hours several people have touched on many different possibilities, none of which seem to have been tried by others. Why is that? Are we that brilliant? I think we've made some good inroads on important aspects of bedbugs. Guess that's why they have groups of people on boards of companies: more brain power.

  23. DeedleBeetle

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    mcs...the SleepTite would be used in conjunction with whatever else you're using to get rid of the infestation. So in an ideal world, you wouldn't get completely eaten up during the day. The thing would be to avoid that insomnia that we all suffered from because you'll know that you can close your beady eyes and get some sleep and not be walking around like a zombie the next day and avoid additional unsightly skin reactions.. When you're done with it...fold it up and store it away or use it for small pieces of furniture that are too big for the regular PT. You could put a whole closet worth of stuff in it. All your winter coats, boots, etc., GIGANTIC loads of books and files, maybe 4 freaken' chairs - your baby crib and rocking chair, stroller...whatever...

    After that, we'll design another one for automobiles... "DriveTite"

  24. Eve

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    mcsmcs - 30 minutes ago  » 
    Just have to say....you guys crack me up.
    Honestly, I think a lot of people would love a good night's sleep. Knowing you can go to bed without getting bitten allows you to sleep and I think biting is more tolerable during the day - it distracts you from your activities, but not as much as it would distract you from sleep.

    The reason that I tend to obsess on this board about clones of PackTite is that in a much earlier life I was aspiring to be a structural engineer. I am a complete idiot with chemistry stuffs.

    However, I think the holy grail in this fight is a really good bed bug *attractor*. We're moving fairly quickly with this what with that home made CO2 dog dish detector that came out late last year. And the somewhat more refined Bed Bug Beacon. Neither of these is as delectable as a sleeping human.

    If we could eventually find a bait that centralizes the little beasties, then we have all kinds of ways to kill them. Forget the careful method of PackTite. My prototype would work more like a toaster oven! I wanna hear some sizzling like when I applied my steam iron to some fecal stains (and maybe eggs) one day.

    Unfortunately, this is a job for the actual entomologists and chemistry folks. But I'm cheering them on.

    Eve

  25. WGarrow

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    Sat Jul 17 2010 0:44:22
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    I think it is an intriguing idea. It is true that the bed bugs would attack during the day if denied at night, but at least I would be awake and have a chance to fight back.

    A chamber such as you described would be an engineering marvel. Unless you have Bill Gates type of money, forget it.

    How about sterilizing a bed and encasing everything, and having an bb proof encasement over the entire bed, like a mini tent! It would have only one bb proof zipper door that you would unzip to hop into bed, and zip back up right after you entered. It seems plausible to me.

  26. Eve

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    Sat Jul 17 2010 1:59:25
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    WGarrow - 1 hour ago  » 
    A chamber such as you described would be an engineering marvel. Unless you have Bill Gates type of money, forget it.

    Actually, the rough draft already exists: http://news.ifas.ufl.edu/2009/07/07/3149/ .

    Needs polishing and integrating, but is already in use by several PCO's.

    Eve

  27. WGarrow

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    Sat Jul 17 2010 13:59:37
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    Eve - 11 hours ago  » 

    WGarrow - 1 hour ago  » 
    A chamber such as you described would be an engineering marvel. Unless you have Bill Gates type of money, forget it.

    Actually, the rough draft already exists: http://news.ifas.ufl.edu/2009/07/07/3149/ .
    Needs polishing and integrating, but is already in use by several PCO's.
    Eve

    That seems like a very promising idea. I hope it is mass produced soon. When I said it would be a hugely expensive engineering marvel, I was responding to the original post which mentioned sealed doors and a ventilation system and sound proofing...like a capsule no bed bugs could penetrate.

  28. spideyjg

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    Death dealing technology not deterrents is the way to go.

    BBs are the ectoparasite version of the Borg. They are relentless.

    Jim

  29. Eve

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    spideyjg - 1 hour ago  » 
    Death dealing technology not deterrents is the way to go.

    I agree. Lure them in and then kill them.

    Eve

  30. DeedleBeetle

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    Eve - 14 hours ago  » 
    Actually, the rough draft already exists: http://news.ifas.ufl.edu/2009/07/07/3149/ .
    Needs polishing and integrating, but is already in use by several PCO's.
    Eve

    Hi Eve.. can you please point me to where you learned that several PCOs are using this machine already? I would like to read about that.

    I certainly hope that PackTite folks have their patents all in order. This article says they started working on their idea in 2006 but the article seems to have been published in 2009. And then toward the end of the article they talk about producing a smaller version for treating suitcases. That sounds like PT to me.

  31. Eve

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    DeedleBeetle - 1 hour ago  » 
    Hi Eve.. can you please point me to where you learned that several PCOs are using this machine already? I would like to read about that.
    I certainly hope that PackTite folks have their patents all in order. This article says they started working on their idea in 2006 but the article seems to have been published in 2009. And then toward the end of the article they talk about producing a smaller version for treating suitcases. That sounds like PT to me.

    Before I drifted into doing most of my research via this site, I was doing daily searches on what was being done more or less randomly. The heat chamber idea (which is the very first idea I thought had possibilities) mostly came out of a bunch of publicity surrounding the University of Florida research. And in the newspaper article it was indicated that this was something that was starting to be used more generally for situations like college dormitories where you have lots of small rooms with standard furniture. My idea of what a PCO is is not the same as a business licensers. And if someone is doing work like this on multiple living areas, then that person is functioning as a PCO even if their job title is maintenance.

    But in response to your post I did come across one real PCO that does this: http://collierpestcontrol.com/bed-bug-treatment.html . Not entirely coincidentally this firm is in Florida. The design of these chambers is not in the least secret. You can get detailed plans and scientific theory here: http://ipm.ifas.ufl.edu/resources/extension_resources/presentations/products/Bed_Bugs_and_IPM.ppt . I saw another website where they gave detailed specs for stand-alone heat chambers and a series of other websites of companies that use these. But I think I will hit the spam filter if I start filling this post with links.

    Now to your actual patent comment. I'm hoping that the PackTite folk have all their legal paperwork in order also. I imagine they do given the care they are taking not to ship this product to other countries before this is done.

    But the fact is that there is very little for PackTite to patent that will prevent other folks from further developing this line of thought. You cannot patent scientific facts: like the effect of sustained heat on bed bugs. Besides people have already known about this. You cannot patent the idea of using thermostats to control the temperature inside a structure either large or small because this is in the wild: my household oven does this. The parts that can be patents, perhaps, are the actual heater that is being used, the design of the struts holding the thing together ... that sort of thing. Even there, I don't know. I am not a patent lawyer (nor any kind of lawyer though I am wasting time here rather than do my Business Law assignments), but my general impression is that so much of the ideas here are "in the wild" and therefore cannot be patented.

    There is a terrific future for the PackTite folk but that depends on their marketing and on their distribution and manufacturing. Also, bed bugs are a very niche market that for now the big boys seem to be reluctant to play in. This is especially true in outlying areas like the one I live in (the middle parts of Canada): there are no firms that specialize in these things. All that is available are general purpose PCOs. That may change in the future. When I go to the sort of store that has pest control products, I can see sections for a lot of different pests (ants are a favourite in my neck of the woods), but shopping for bed bugs requires research on my part to see what sorts of things might be useful and then studying the labels. There are no PackTites or Climbups or BedBug Beacons sitting there on the shelves for me to check out live and in person.

    Anyway, I better shut up and decide how best to advise Millie the 76 year old widow on how to protect herself against her oh so helpful niece Sylvie who is trying to gain possession of her house. Says something when bed bugs are way more fun than a Business Law course.

    Eve

  32. miserableone

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Jul 17 2010 18:22:22
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    you guys really are hysterical. I actually forgot how miserable I am for about 5 minutes and had a good laugh and daydreamed a lil of good sleep and a bug free bed. Keep up the good thoughts. Its very helpful : )

  33. DeedleBeetle

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Jul 17 2010 19:46:17
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    BB more fun that Business law?? Naaaawwwww...never. Tell syvia to stop overreaching her elderly aunt and get her grimy mitts off the house!!

    Are you a law student?

    This is what i find in the first section of the US Patent law. USC Sec. 35
    Previous Section (§100) | Next Section (§102)

    §101. Inventions patentable
    Whoever invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent therefor, subject to the conditions and requirements of this title [35 USC § §1 et seq.].

    Here's a little synopsis (tip of the iceberg) i found about US patent law that you might find interesting. I see that the US has much broader rules about what is patentable than almost all other countries..so i'm figuring that our rules here probably differ from Canada.

    http://www.bitlaw.com/patent/requirements.html#statutory

    i took a look at the packtite ad and it says "patent pending" so i imagine they must have applied for one...of course that's no guarantee it would be granted, but if they made some change to the heating system, i would think it would qualify for a patent...

    oooops...almost time for my Saturday evening Korean drama....can't miss that!

  34. Eve

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Jul 18 2010 22:13:50
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    DeedleBeetle - 1 day ago  » 
    BB more fun that Business law?? Naaaawwwww...never. Tell syvia to stop overreaching her elderly aunt and get her grimy mitts off the house!!

    Unfortunately, my client isn't Sylvia, it's her elderly aunt who was silly enough to sign a "transfer of land" without reading it because her glasses were in the other room. I'm pondering if my response can include a round scolding for not being called in sooner.

    Are you a law student?

    Nah. I'm getting an accounting certificate because, at 56, I'm tired of having my "highest academic achievement" be a high school diploma and "some university". This course is basically geared to educating the aspiring business person regarding potential legal landmines and how to recognize that calling in the lawyer might be the smartest thing to do. A bit like this discussion group in a way.

    Actually most of my academic background (and I hope academic future) is in mathematics and statistics. Again, on topic, the knowledge of how quantities scale and how probabilities add up, is one of the things that keeps me sane through the bed bug thing.

    This is what i find in the first section of the US Patent law. USC Sec. 35 ...

    i took a look at the packtite ad and it says "patent pending" so i imagine they must have applied for one...of course that's no guarantee it would be granted, but if they made some change to the heating system, i would think it would qualify for a patent...

    I read the entirety of that link you provided and it confirmed my initial impression that, yes, the PackTite can have patents in several areas. But the patent situation of PT is not harmed at all by the proliferation of thermal chambers. They are different beasts.

    In fact there are at least five separate thermal processes that I can think of:

    (1) The PackTite ... commercial and patentable
    (2) Heating chambers ... non-patentable because the detailed plans are out in the wild
    (3) Free standing heat chamber or room ... ditto plans are out there in detail, with the intention of helping organizations like homeless shelters, etc.
    (4) Heated trucks ... This is interesting because in Edmonton, at least, these trucks were designed not for bed bugs but for some use in the oil patch (not sure what myself, read this in a local rag). When oil prices dropped these trucks were purchasable for much cheaper than a purpose-built bed bug truck could be. Hence, my moving strategy.
    (5) Thermal heating of whole structures ... several patents on this most of them having to do with the design of the heaters and relation to thermostats.

    But, like I say, not a patent lawyer (not even an aspiring one). But the thing that makes this stuff patentable is not the fact of a volume heated to a certain temperature and kept like that for a while (this is ancient knowledge), or even that bed bugs are susceptible to this (also old knowledge), but the actual design of the heaters, surrounding materials, etc. so you can do this effectively without setting the place on fire. Setting the place on fire kills bed bugs, but has certain downsides.

    oooops...almost time for my Saturday evening Korean drama....can't miss that!

    Glad to see you're keeping your priorities in order. Been spending the weekend catching up on Coronation Street myself while nursing the sore back from the futon frame lifting and spraying.

    Eve

  35. Beth

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Jul 18 2010 23:01:34
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    ok so there is a chamber already? cool.

    but this thread made me think of something else: why have I never considered buying a waterproof tent to sleep in inside? hmm...

  36. bb2u

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    Sun Jul 18 2010 23:22:52
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    >> why have I never considered buying a waterproof tent to sleep in inside? hmm...

    I would think the air would get mighty stale if its all zippered up. And think of the size of a tiny bedbug. About 2mm I think. They can get through most any mosquito netting. You need an air supply - obviously the source should be outside. And you need to exhaust the CO2 we all exhale - that should go outside as well so it doesn't attract the little buggers. So one would be best to make a frame and insulate it for sound/light as well thereby supplying a superlative level of sleep. Fresh air, no light, no sound. What more could anyone want? For safety, you need your smoke/fire alarm hooked up to a buzzer inside. But that is a minor undertaking. One could even rig up an LCD monitor, keyboard/pointing device and speakers to bring in some entertainment. Or some device to hold an ereader above your head.

  37. DLTBBB

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Jul 19 2010 5:38:04
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    As bedbugs spread, I wonder if houses might start being built with the thermal option (a heating system that will take it to 130 degrees to treat bedbugs). I suppose that it might be too much of a liability since some people would almost certainly use it without taking care to remove aerosols, fire extinguishers, etc. At this stage, I'd toy with the idea of retrofitting my home with a home-thermal-unit.

    Or, maybe adopting a bedbug sniffing dog, just to catch every little sucker that comes in.

  38. bb2u

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    Wed Aug 11 2010 15:09:27
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    Why not just turn on your furnace for a while with all the windows closed on a hot summer day? It might get hot enough to at least kill some of them that are more exposed. And it sure would cost way less than a visit from your local ripoff PCO.

  39. kirads09

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Aug 11 2010 16:18:44
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    bb2u - 57 minutes ago  » 
    Why not just turn on your furnace for a while with all the windows closed on a hot summer day? It might get hot enough to at least kill some of them that are more exposed.

    It might kill a few. However, I don't believe it could eradicate and infestation. This same idea did cross my mind noticing the consistent temp in my little studio is 80F. I am not an expert on Thermal technology and I am sure there is a great deal more to it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can address it.

    However, it is my understanding you have to get the temperature up to that kill level very quickly and then be able to sustain it that level (never dropping) for a long period of time. That heat has to be able to reach into every nook and cranny too to keep the BB"s from retreating to survivable cooler areas I would think. I don't think your average household heating system would not be able to do that.

  40. bb2u

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Aug 11 2010 18:15:44
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    It might on hot days. Also this requires a well sealed room of course. The sealing of a room probably allows more bed bugs to escape PCO treatments than anything else. So it might only be effective on more modern houses. Seal people, seal! Especially now in the summer when you can ventilate it so easily with the warm weather. In a few months you'll have to breathe all those lovely carcinogens from the sealing compounds as they often take days to dry, as most people won't want to let the heat escape in the winter.

  41. deathbuggy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Aug 11 2010 21:04:27
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    BB2, I was actually daydreaming about this a few days ago... sleeping with diving gear on. You know, the tight deep diver suite, the mask, and you'd have air to breath! Oh... depends on how much air you can put in one of those tanks... Oh! Minus the flippers on your feet, well, unless you really want to!

    deathbuggy

  42. killthemall

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Aug 11 2010 22:41:00
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    Excuse me if someone posted a similar idea, but I also have been thinking about this.

    If you are careful during the day, BB's would be a problem of the past if EVERYONE in the house, and the country, slept in these things (ever see Aliens the movie/Futurama where they are frozen in a glass container, kinda like that)

    Glass/Plexiglass/ some sort of nonporous see through material that does not emanate heat.

    Comfortable sleeping pad.

    Climate controlled , can go from -20 F to 200 F (save on air conditioning if all you have to worry about is your pod).

    Exhaust leading outside that is filtered very powerfully (nothing can come in).

    Airtight sealing.

    Very comfortable, extra oxygen to allow for easy sleeping.

    Basically, your own little pod/fortress of solitude.

    God this would be awesome; and if everyone used it, say goodbye to bed bugs for good.

  43. bb2u

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Aug 11 2010 22:54:16
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    The sleeping chamber was only to give a good night's rest to the afflicted until a remedy could be implemented. Remember a female bed bug lays about 500 eggs in a lifetime. And they can bite you during the day as well. Eradication is inevitably necessary unless you intend to breed them. And won't that make you popular! And yes it does make you less of a target. But you still are there in the daytime, at least most of us are.

  44. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu Aug 12 2010 2:14:38
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    Re: tents

    I think bed bugs could easily get through a normal tent (look at the mesh on the windows and the zipper end stops!)

    However, I did a post years ago on a "travel tent" which the manufacturer claimed was designed to keep people from being bitten by bed bugs, and other pests, while in a bed. (I am unaware of any testing data.)

    I want to stress that I do not recall any reports of people using it long-term in a bed bug infestation. Some people have tried it short-term. One user posted to the comments of that post that she was bitten after a few days -- though it would be difficult to know if you were bitten elsewhere in the home, or if you tracked bed bugs into the tent when you went to bed. You'd have to take extreme measures not to track them in on pyjamas, body, etc.


    Here's the post.
    Click the photo in that post to go to the site which sells them. Again, this is not an endorsement! We don't know much about this product.

    Here are threads tagged "tent" -- I think a few of them may include posts from people trying out this product, but I don't have time to troll through right at this minute.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  45. Vickytoria3112

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu Aug 12 2010 14:37:57
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    I would love to build a home like this. When you leave press a button and your whole house heats up at 125 degrees to kill anything that came in. That would be good for the environment. All jokes aside. No pesticides. This may be a way to live bug free. And of course it will be solar powered.

    Hmmmm...only if I were smarter.


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