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A Safe Island (for me) = Death (for BBs)?
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Unfortunate
newbite
Joined: Oct '11
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Oct 3 2011 23:51:46
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Hi all:
It's bed bugs. Sigh. Have had experience with these little devils while traveling in Nepal (though this time I'm getting a worse reaction and boyfriend is getting off easier, it was the other way around last time). Anyway, I got an item of clothing second-hand... BAM! a week later, a few bites... then a few more... and then a bunch. I don't have conclusive proof, yet, but based on my Nepal experience, I'd like to act sooner rather than later. I think this is very limited at this point.
Here's my idea. Please critique. The general idea is to make myself a tasty, tasty target, but have the bugs kill themselves on their way.
1) Take all the linens (including pillows) off the bed, launder, HOT dryer for an hour. Plastic bag and into the closet. For good measure, launder and dry our sleeping bags, which will be our new bed linens (to avoid a blanket touching the ground during the night).
2) Put mattress and box spring into BB-proof enclosures. If there's anything in the mattress or box spring, it's not getting out.
3) We don't have a bed frame; we've just had the box spring on the floor. So I'd get four of those bed lofts/ risers that are used to make a bed taller for under-bed storage. Put the enclosed box spring and mattress on the risers. The risers would be like the four "legs" of a bed frame--just easier to clean debug (heh), should this not work.
4) Once the safe, clean bed is off the ground, position it away from the walls. Then, encircle the risers with lots and lots of extremely sticky double-sided tape. This should act as a physical barrier.
5) Place each riser in a shallow dish, and gently dust the dish with a very thin dusting of DE while wearing a respirator.
6) Sleep naked in my sleeping bag, to avoid bringing any bugs on clothing into the "sterile" area.
Theoretically, any bed bugs in the mattress or box spring will be isolated. Bed bugs in the bedroom will still try to get to us--as they should, because it means they'll crawl through DE and then get stuck in the sticky tape.
Here are the problems/ pitfalls I can imagine:
A) What if a pillow falls off the bed in the middle of the night, or a sleeping bag touches the carpet and acts like a bridge?
B) I know DE has to be applied wearing a respirator, and shouldn't be used in places where you're going to be... but then how can you use it inside ANYWHERE? Is this something I should sleep in the same room with? I don't expect that the dish will get jostled or anything, especially if we don't have blnkets hanging down off the bed... but still.
C) Most importantly: even if a bug tracks through the DE, it won't die immediately. IF it can negotiate the sticky tape, it can get into the bed, feed, lay eggs, thereby contaminating the "sterile" field and starting another generation before dying. I can continue to launder our sleeping bags and pillows on a regular basis, but what happens if they establish a colony on the exterior of the mattress enclosure?
D) One thing I'm NOT planning on doing is tossing apart my bedroom or apartment. I'm not planning on laundering all of my clothing or anything like that. I don't want them to get anywhere besides my bedroom. In fact, I want these critters to come bite me, to be attracted to my bed, because if they try to get to me, that's how I can interrupt their life cycle. Should I be doing anything else?
Any other suggestions or comments?
Not looking forward to the coming days and weeks... this forum sure is depressing... let's see how itchy I am in the morning.
Thanks for your help!!
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your host
Joined: Mar '07
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Oct 4 2011 0:10:45
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Experts have suggested that "isolating the bed" can cause bed bugs to spread to new areas of your home, where they will continue trying to bite you. That makes them harder to treat and based on what you said, does not sound like an outcome you'd be interested in. If I had bed bugs now I would not isolate the bed.
From a practical standpoint, I am not sure a box spring would rest on a set of risers. Most are designed to hold legs of a bed frame. Encasements can tear and so even if it works, it might strain them.
And yes, if you try to isolate the bed, it's easy to sabotage your efforts. A dropped pillow, a sleeping bag touching the floor, are all possible problems. And think about what happens before you get in bed. A shower immediately beforehand? Because you could easily track bed bugs into bed by carrying them in.
And if they aren't getting to feed on you at night, they will likely be more aggressive about doing so elsewhere in the home.
A sleeping bag would, IMO, be one of the harder things to treat. People are often wary of comforters and pillows. We don't know exactly how long they need in a dryer or Packtite. It's hard to be sure. Filling can be very insulating. I would prefer sleeping on something thin like a cotton blanket/sheets that can be washed and dried on hot often. The touching-the-floor problem still exists, but if you do get bed bugs in your sleeping bag, it's much more of a problem.
Also, I am not an expert on DE, but per our FAQ on DE, you are right to be concerned about applying it anywhere where it might be disturbed and inhaled.
Is getting professional bed bug treatment an option? It would be much more direct and get rid of the problem much more quickly.
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Unfortunate
newbite
Joined: Oct '11
Posts: 6offline
Posted 1 year ago
Tue Oct 4 2011 8:33:44
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Thank you for your kind (and quick!) response!
Nobugsonme - 8 hours ago »
Experts have suggested that "isolating the bed" can cause bed bugs to spread to new areas of your home, where they will continue trying to bite you. That makes them harder to treat and based on what you said, does not sound like an outcome you'd be interested in. If I had bed bugs now I would not isolate the bed.Hmmm... I'm not trying to isolate the bed. Definitely not going to try the vaseline-on-the-bedframe trick to keep them out. Actually, I want to invite the little buggers TO my bed via points that I can control to ensure that all walk through the DE and most get stuck in the tape.
I don't think they're smart enough to be like, "Oh no, I shouldn't walk through that tape, I'll get stuck, so instead I'll wait until it's in the evening, and then I'll go bite them on the couch." Or at least I sure hope they're not that smart.
From a practical standpoint, I am not sure a box spring would rest on a set of risers. Most are designed to hold legs of a bed frame. Encasements can tear and so even if it works, it might strain them.
Good to know. I would consider getting a simple bed frame.
And yes, if you try to isolate the bed, it's easy to sabotage your efforts. A dropped pillow, a sleeping bag touching the floor, are all possible problems. And think about what happens before you get in bed. A shower immediately beforehand? Because you could easily track bed bugs into bed by carrying them in.
Yeah, I like to shower in the evening, and I'd hop in bed without clothes.
And if they aren't getting to feed on you at night, they will likely be more aggressive about doing so elsewhere in the home.
Hopefully they will (feed at night)!
A sleeping bag would, IMO, be one of the harder things to treat. People are often wary of comforters and pillows. We don't know exactly how long they need in a dryer or Packtite. It's hard to be sure. Filling can be very insulating. I would prefer sleeping on something thin like a cotton blanket/sheets that can be washed and dried on hot often. The touching-the-floor problem still exists, but if you do get bed bugs in your sleeping bag, it's much more of a problem.
Good point. My sleeping bag would be easy to wash/ treat; my boyfriend's would be more difficult. We can certainly stick to sheets and a blanket, I'll just have to tuck in the corners of the blanket and insist that boyfriend does not throw it off his side of the bed before going to sleep (he sleeps warm; I sleep cold).
Is getting professional bed bug treatment an option? It would be much more direct and get rid of the problem much more quickly.
Would it really get rid of the problem, though? All I hear about on this board are PCOs who don't know their elbow from their rear end. Which pretty much describes me, right now. I'd rather not pay a few grand for someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
I'm googling landlord responsibilities in New York State (I'm not in the City). I'm finding tons of info about the City, but that doesn't apply to me. Part of me doesn't want to be a pain-in-the-butt to my landlord, who has already fixed quite a few things in the apartment for us. I just wish this had never happened.
Help! Yes, I've read the FAQ. I just don't know what to do.
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makesmenuts
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Oct 4 2011 12:18:49
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I'm using a version of your strategy in one of our bedrooms, with mixed success. Our main infestation was in another sleeping room, and apparently I cross-contaminated the other bedroom and our couch. The "main" room has been chemically treated because it can be closed off, but I didn't want to treat the other bedroom because of pets. We found/eliminated the old harborage, which was between the box spring and frame, and got rid of that bed, bedding, and frame, then emptied and treated the remaining furniture with an organic contact killer, did the usual bagging/drying/vacuuming etc. of the room's contents.
The new bedding has been double-encased since the moment it entered the door, and the new metal headboard has only one harbor spot (which a straggler immediately found!), and which is now treated with DE to keep them out. All possible pathways onto the bed also have DE, which is also between the mattress and box spring and on the backside of the headboard. Room itself has a ring of DE around the baseboard and other furniture is isolated. I check the bed regularly, both visually and with an electronic detector. Other than some nymphs early on, it's been a long time since I've seen anything.
I went without bites for weeks, then got four bites on my elbow last week, accompanied by a couple of blood spots on the sheet. I'm hoping that it was a straggler BB that got desperate enough to brave the DE and that it will die for its efforts (and won't lay eggs!). However, there is a small possibility that I cross-contaminated from the couch, which I'm not entirely convinced is clean. I actually found one hitchhiking on me many weeks ago when I went upstairs; couch has been treated multiple times, and I haven't seen any evidence in a while, but it has a zillion hiding spots.
If you use your bed strategy, combine it with an integrated plan of drying/vacuuming etc., and opt for a PCO if you find a good one. My own bed plan has definitely reduced the problem and will hopefully eliminate it as the stragglers do suicidal food runs, but I would definitely have preferred the chemical route. Any that decide to leave that room will likely head into the other room because of the way the house is laid out, where they will meet their demise with a chemical treatment (at the moment, we're just dealing with egg hatchings in there).
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your host
Joined: Mar '07
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Oct 4 2011 12:22:55
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What you are describing (putting double-sided tape on bed legs or risers, putting bed legs or risers in cups of DE) most certainly is what we mean by "isolating the bed." It means you're trying to completely prevent bed bugs from biting you in bed. And it may have unintended consequences, such as spreading bed bugs in your home.
Note in another thread, a poster noted observing a bed bug to approach sticky tape and then turn around and go a different way. It's not about their level of intelligence, but bed bug behavior. Moreover, if bed bugs sense danger, they may give off alarm pheromones. My understanding is these may lead to dispersal.
David Cain has suggested that any kind of isolation may lead to spreading bed bugs.
As to your comments about PCOs, I have been running this site for five years, and my impression is that most people who get rid of bed bugs do so with the assistance of a pest management professional. While some are better than others, you don't have to have a rock star PCO working on your case for it to succeed.
When PCOs fail, it often seems to be because the landlord is not getting neighboring units inspected and treated if needed -- a situation that self-treatment won't solve.
Many people also self-treat but we hear a lot of negative stories -- it is surprisingly easy to do it wrong and this may have consequences in terms of health and in terms of making the bed bug problem worse.
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your host
Joined: Mar '07
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Oct 4 2011 12:35:21
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I am not a lawyer but the laws in New York State would seem to indicate that the landlord is responsible based on what the Multiple Dwelling Law has to say about vermin.
This post on New York vs. bed bugs is quite helpful (you can weed out the information that applies to the city but not the state as a whole).
I also suggest you read our FAQs in general.
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BugsMustDie
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Oct 4 2011 13:15:14
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To add a note about your landlord - I am a landlord (a single-family house, but I can apply this to any problem, whether it be a single-family or multi-unit dwelling). We would rather have the tenant report the problem early on (even if it costs us money) than wait for the problem to get so big that it is much more difficult (and expensive) to handle. You are doing your landlord no favors by trying to fix this yourself. - Best
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your host
Joined: Mar '07
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Oct 4 2011 13:19:00
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BugsMustDie - 2 minutes ago »
To add a note about your landlord - I am a landlord (a single-family house, but I can apply this to any problem, whether it be a single-family or multi-unit dwelling). We would rather have the tenant report the problem early on (even if it costs us money) than wait for the problem to get so big that it is much more difficult (and expensive) to handle. You are doing your landlord no favors by trying to fix this yourself. - Best And -- again, I am not a lawyer, but there may also be legal issues arising from not telling the landlord promptly about such a problem.
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Unfortunate
newbite
Joined: Oct '11
Posts: 6offline
Posted 1 year ago
Tue May 15 2012 16:19:02
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An update, several months later.
The bites... "magically" stopped. Well, I realized the bites were showing up at regular intervals, always right around the time I was spending the weekend at my fiance's mother's house. I went a few months without visiting, and interestingly I got no bites during that time (and haven't had any bites since last autumn). As it turns out, I'm nearly 100% certain that the bites were flea bites from my fiance's brother's dog (which definitely was flea infested, and definitely was sleeping in my fiance's childhood room, ugh).
The piece of second-hand clothing I brought home? Seems like it was coincidence.
I never saw any evidence at all of bedbugs actually in the apartment. No blood on the sheets, no droppings, no bugs. Only mysterious "bedbug" bites.
And if it was actually bedbugs, then I don't really know what to say... I don't know how I could get a few clusters of bites, then have NOTHING at all for six months.
Unfortunately, I've got another bedbug question to ask, but I'll start another thread for that.
Oh--
What you are describing (putting double-sided tape on bed legs or risers, putting bed legs or risers in cups of DE) most certainly is what we mean by "isolating the bed." It means you're trying to completely prevent bed bugs from biting you in bed. And it may have unintended consequences, such as spreading bed bugs in your home.
I think I still wasn't clear with what I was thinking of doing. I was trying to do the exact opposite of what you were suggesting--not prevent them from biting me in bed, but rather try to get them to bite me in bed, using myself as bait, but try to trap and kill them in the process.I'd never heard of bedbugs being smart enough to turn around at the prospect of crossing sticky tape and/or DE, but if that's truly the case, then my idea wouldn't have worked. Thanks for the guidance!
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oldtimer
Joined: Apr '07
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue May 15 2012 17:58:34
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Hi,
If you watch bedbugs closely as they walk you can actually see them from time to time test the ground in front of them. If they sense that they are likely to you stuck they will back off and find another way around. Another reason why random blunder trap glue boards tend not to be effective.
The avoidance of excess DE is a slightly different issue. They can actually see rather well for insects and beyond the normal human range of sight. If you think like a bedbug you quickly realize that they would avoid excess DE in the same way humans would generally take a less rocky path.
I have ample field observations of them doing this and many examples of tests on glue based devices where the capture actually declined where bedbugs got unstuck after a few days.
Hope that helps explain.
David Cain
Bed Bugs Limited -
Unfortunate
newbite
Joined: Oct '11
Posts: 6offline
Posted 1 year ago
Tue May 15 2012 18:01:09
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bed-bugscouk - 1 minute ago »
Hi,
If you watch bedbugs closely as they walk you can actually see them from time to time test the ground in front of them. If they sense that they are likely to you stuck they will back off and find another way around. Another reason why random blunder trap glue boards tend not to be effective.
The avoidance of excess DE is a slightly different issue. They can actually see rather well for insects and beyond the normal human range of sight. If you think like a bedbug you quickly realize that they would avoid excess DE in the same way humans would generally take a less rocky path.
I have ample field observations of them doing this and many examples of tests on glue based devices where the capture actually declined where bedbugs got unstuck after a few days.
Hope that helps explain.
David Cain
Bed Bugs Limited:-O
Insane!
And great to know. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!
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oldtimer
Joined: Apr '07
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue May 15 2012 18:40:31
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Yeah they are crazy critters for sure.
David
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your host
Joined: Mar '07
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue May 15 2012 23:12:57
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Unfortunate - 6 hours ago »
What you are describing (putting double-sided tape on bed legs or risers, putting bed legs or risers in cups of DE) most certainly is what we mean by "isolating the bed." It means you're trying to completely prevent bed bugs from biting you in bed. And it may have unintended consequences, such as spreading bed bugs in your home.
I think I still wasn't clear with what I was thinking of doing. I was trying to do the exact opposite of what you were suggesting--not prevent them from biting me in bed, but rather try to get them to bite me in bed, using myself as bait, but try to trap and kill them in the process.
I'd never heard of bedbugs being smart enough to turn around at the prospect of crossing sticky tape and/or DE, but if that's truly the case, then my idea wouldn't have worked. Thanks for the guidance!Unfortunate,
May be time for a username change!
Just in case this helps anyone else, trying to trap bed bugs in the bed with you does not mean that other bed bugs not currently on the bed won't spread further.
And anyway, trapping bed bugs on the bed with you kind of means they can keep feeding indefinitely.
I would also note people have reported seeing bed bugs approach double-sided tape barriers, turn, and walk another way, instead of getting stuck. I don't think it's about being "smart" but they do seem to have some good instincts for survival.
It sounds like you did not have bed bugs at all. Great news! All the best to you!
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