A Review of “Best Yet” Cedar Oil Product (manufactured by Cedarcide Industries) « Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums

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A Review of “Best Yet” Cedar Oil Product (manufactured by Cedarcide Industries)

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JWhiteBBCTV

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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Dec 29 2009 14:35:45
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Over the past year or two there have been questions raised in regards to how effective cedar oil, and more specifically the cedar oil product “Best Yet”, is for controlling bed bugs. As many of us know, there are many different “all-natural” products on the market that can be effective against bed bugs when used as contact sprays but few, if any have residual effectiveness. What stimulates some of the interest in cedar oils are some of the manufacturer claims in regards to Best Yet having additional beneficial effects against bed bugs. These claims made the product intriguing enough to stimulate Bed Bug Central to fund a brief study performed by Changlu Wang at Rutgers University on the product’s contact and residual effect on bed bugs.

This study was intended to test the effect of Best Yet cedar oil when sprayed directly on bed bugs and their eggs as well as the residual effect when bed bugs were forced to remain confined to a treated surface for a 14-day period.

The results demonstrated that when bed bugs and their eggs were sprayed directly with Best Yet cedar oil there was 100% mortality of bed bugs within 1 minute and within 17 days none of the eggs hatched. When untreated bugs were moved to a treated surface that was allowed to dry for 24 hours prior to exposure, the bugs started to show mortality 3 days after exposure and after 14 days about 67% of the bugs had died, compared to less than 20% mortality in the untreated control.

While we were not surprised by the effectiveness when bugs were sprayed directly, we did not expect the material to be so effective on eggs and were even more surprised by the residual activity. Still it is important to remember that the residual test was a forced exposure which may not mimic the actual field behavior of the bugs (i.e. most researchers believe that most bed bugs, when in a home, will not remain on a surface treated with a repellent chemical for long periods of time). In addition, it is also worth noting that the product did show some repellent properties with bed bugs, which may further reduce the likelihood of bed bugs remaining on treated surfaces long enough to achieve mortality in field settings.

These promising results stimulated Dr. Wang to look further into what part of Best Yet is causing the insect mortality. According to the label on Best Yet, the product contains 10% cedar oil and 90% latex. When 10% cedar oil was applied to bed bugs it did not cause any mortality of bed bugs. A conversation with the manufacturers of Best Yet indicated that they were aware that “over-the-counter” cedar oil would not cause bed bug mortality and that they manufacture their cedar oil in a way that gives it insecticidal properties. Also, latex has a physical property consistent with that of household paint yet Best Yet is a clear, not nearly as viscous as paint, liquid. When an applicable form of latex was applied to bed bugs the bugs did not demonstrate any mortality but what “latex” is can be interpreted many different ways.

Looking further into the latex situation, the label on Best Yet states that 90% of the product consists of latex yet the MSDS sheet states that the product consists of silicon. Some professionals do consider silicon a type of latex but either way more research needs to be done to determine what gives Best Yet its insecticidal properties.
cilecto

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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Dec 29 2009 14:43:09
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Jeff. Glad you got to the silica part. That would explain the residual. Wonder what caused the eggs to fail, though. If this keeps up, Dr Wang will be the queen of lo tech BB control.
TThelp

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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Dec 29 2009 22:20:26
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May I ask what is the source of this study? Is it in print?
For the most part, Cedar Cide has refused any of us proof or even info on how it works. Then, just recently have appeared to try to sneak in spam hidden as a regular person's post. Nobugs romoved the two posts before I read the threads. So, I didn't see them. But, that seems rather underhanded to try and trick us bb suffers.
. . .hmmmm It makes it all seem like hype.

But. . .if it is partially effective, that would be fabulous!

No one wants to be taken, though! esp not those of us so taken down by these suckers!
JWhiteBBCTV

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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Dec 29 2009 23:30:57
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The study will be in print soon but it hasn't been published yet so I can't disclose exact details about the study and the data that was collected.

I can promise you though that it is a legitamate study and it was not paid research by the manufacturer. This was funded by Bed Bug Central who contracted Rutgers University to perform the work. The comments that I read on bedbugger is what stimulated my comments to the rest of the research and development team here at Bed Bug Central that was partially the reason that stimulated us pursuing getting the work done.

Obviously the product performed fairly well but as the description said, what is giving this product it's insecticidal properties has yet to be determined. I don't know enough about cedar oil and how it's manufactured to comment on their claims that they manufacture it in a way that gives it insecticidal properties. There's also some confusion over what the label states and what the MSDS states (latex vs. silicon). Do they view silicon as a type of latex?
Nobugsonme

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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Dec 30 2009 0:17:46
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TThelp - 1 hour ago »
May I ask what is the source of this study? Is it in print?
For the most part, CedarCide has refused any of us proof or even info on how it works. Then, just recently have appeared to try to sneak in spam hidden as a regular person's post. Nobugs romoved the two posts before I read the threads. So, I didn't see them. But, that seems rather underhanded to try and trick us bb suffers.

Hi TTHelp,

People do often make claims about products without backing them up. The posts deleted in the last 24 hours --if we are thinking of the same poster -- claimed s/he sprayed CedarCide in an infested roominghouse once to clear all bed bugs.

One post actually stated,

One spray in each room, eliminated the problem in 24 hr. The were gone. No more bites. And the tennants could stay in the room without harm. i have no idea why motels dont use this on a regular basis or when a room is infested. One spray and the room is safe 24 hr later.

That sounds a bit over the top, since even the most effective residuals do not have this effect in most cases. This study does not make such a claim any more convincing. (To be clear, it was the nature of the endorsement which was not believable to me, not the fact that this product may indeed have merit.)

I have let that post remain deleted because of its farfetched claims. A second post by the same poster has been reinstated here.

I have in the past encouraged the manufacturer of CedarCide to have the product tested by independent entomologists and share the data with us.

I am glad to see these tests have been performed by Changlu Wang, who is a very reputable researcher. Thanks to Bed Bug Central for commissioning them.
bait

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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Dec 30 2009 0:23:44
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I posted a comment in the other thread; it belongs here:

Thanks everybody, esp. JWhite. I look forward to the study.
spideyjg

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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Dec 30 2009 13:08:37
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The efficacy on eggs is a nice surprise. Was this more or less effective than other chemicals on eggs?

If 100% kill on eggs, that would move it into "contact killer of choice" to me.

The repellent properties, I'm sure they took measures to eliminate the possibility that it was a reaction to an alarm pheromone right?

Jim
TThelp

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Posted 3 years ago
Thu Dec 31 2009 2:43:39
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Nobuggs and JWhite, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for the info! It does sound interesting. . .but must try not to get our hopes up!

Does anyone know about the cost?

Months ago I looked at their site and posted the "is it too good to be true?" thread here. And, since the Cedarcide people never replied to my question I emailed them asking about it's application method, contact kill only?, etc questions; I gave up on the idea. Not to mention, I found the site confusing--not giving the prices clearly etc.

Anyone else trying it here? It would be interesting to get feedback.

And, yes, Nobuggs that did sound silly!
TThelp

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Posted 3 years ago
Thu Dec 31 2009 2:54:33
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Okay, so I got myself curious. I found their site again.
Check this out:
For more information on eradication of bed bugs from hotels, motels, dormitories, apartments, nursing homes or your residence call 1 800 --- and talk to the experts at CedarCide.Com. We will assist you in establishing a bed bug control treatment agenda that will help you eliminate bed bug issues forever.

Why does that make me laugh? Maybe I should call tomorrow just to see what they say?
I wonder if they really do know about the compicated case bbs are?

And here for prices: http://www.cedarcidestore.com/PCO.html
Anyone want to buy the 4 ouce size to experiment with LOL?
hatethembuggers

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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Jan 12 2010 18:27:38
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This is my first post but I have been reading this forum for over a year. I have the same sad history as many out there.... live in a 2 bedroom apt. that had bed bugs. The building complex owner did 6 treatments over the course of a year or so. I lost any hope of getting rid of them with a PCO based on this experience. (To be fair, the second bedroom and living room appear all clear of BB since the last PCO treatment (kids in second bedroom are not getting bites anymore) but I am still getting bit in the master bedroom.) Early on in this bed bug war, I tried the Cedarcide product throughout the apartment with no success. Since it only kills on contact, I'm sure that I did not get them in their lovely retreats. I have isolated the bed with mineral oil in plastic containers, bought the recommended and most expensive mattress cover, bought a new metal bed frame, tried the passive bed bug interceptors (which caught ZERO bedbugs after months of use) but am still getting bit. By a process of elimination, I have concluded the bugs must be in the metal frame. (Unless these creatures can swim through mineral oil or fly.....) My last ditch effort is going to be dousing the bedframe with Cedarcide for the second time in 2 days. If that fails, I will try another PCO. Anyone have any solid recommendations for PCO's in the NYC area? I am so terribly suspicious of any claims that these damn bugs can be gotten rid of.
cilecto

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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Jan 12 2010 18:37:53
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Could you be reacting to something else? Could you be getting bit elsewhere (car, work, bathroom, dining area) and having delayed reactions? Are there any voids in your metal frame (which, BTW, you can just as well, AFAIK, treat with alcohol or soap like Murphy's)?
bait

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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Jan 13 2010 1:17:28
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hatethembuggers,

You may have mystery bites. Search the site and comment on your experience if it fits in the mystery bite threads.

I'm in NYC and can't give you any PCO recommendations; sorry.

P.S. Welcome.

Bait
NYDweller

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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Jan 13 2010 2:57:30
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hatethembuggers - 8 hours ago »
This is my first post but I have been reading this forum for over a year. I have the same sad history as many out there.... live in a 2 bedroom apt. that had bed bugs. The building complex owner did 6 treatments over the course of a year or so. I lost any hope of getting rid of them with a PCO based on this experience. (To be fair, the second bedroom and living room appear all clear of BB since the last PCO treatment (kids in second bedroom are not getting bites anymore) but I am still getting bit in the master bedroom.) Early on in this bed bug war, I tried the Cedarcide product throughout the apartment with no success. Since it only kills on contact, I'm sure that I did not get them in their lovely retreats. I have isolated the bed with mineral oil in plastic containers, bought the recommended and most expensive mattress cover, bought a new metal bed frame, tried the passive bed bug interceptors (which caught ZERO bedbugs after months of use) but am still getting bit. By a process of elimination, I have concluded the bugs must be in the metal frame. (Unless these creatures can swim through mineral oil or fly.....) My last ditch effort is going to be dousing the bedframe with Cedarcide for the second time in 2 days. If that fails, I will try another PCO. Anyone have any solid recommendations for PCO's in the NYC area? I am so terribly suspicious of any claims that these damn bugs can be gotten rid of.

questions about your bed:

1) do you have pillow encasements ?

2) If you have a box spring is that also in an encasement?

3) you say you have a mattress cover. Is that a bed bug encasement in which the entire mattress is closed in an zippered all over cover (not a fitted sheet type cover) ?

4) I assume you have washed all bedding dried anything like a comforter and blankets in a drier thoroughly to bone dry, correct?

5) The bed is at least 6 inches from touching any wall, correct?

6) No blanket or sheets hang low on the bed, correct?
Nobugsonme

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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Jan 13 2010 3:15:52
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hatethembuggers,

You can see discussions of NYC PCOs here.

If you have additional questions I would suggest starting another thread so your concerns are not lost in this discussion of the CedarCide product.
hatethembuggers

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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Jan 13 2010 21:58:44
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Thanks for all of your comments. I will check out the mystery bite threads. In an answer to NY Dweller: 1. I do have pillow encasements 2. box spring is in an encasement 3. mattress is in a real encasement (with zipper) 4.bed is at least 6 inches from the wall 5. my comforter has been washed so many times it is losing its feathers! 6. nothing from the bed touches the floor.

In response to Cilecto, I don't believe I'm getting bitten anywhere but the bed. I wake up with bites...or a within a few hours of getting up. After re-treating the entire bedframe last night with Cedarcide, no bites last night. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that maybe I have finally found the magic bullet.

I'll keep you posted. Only time will tell.
Spun

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Jan 16 2010 0:39:19
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I came so close to buying this product with the fumigator, but something just nagged at me that it was to good to be true. I watched that promotional video of that guy dancing around in his house to the song "The Heat Is On". He looked so happy and I thought just maybe.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Jan 16 2010 2:37:34
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Spun - 1 hour ago »
I came so close to buying this product with the fumigator, but something just nagged at me that it was to good to be true. I watched that promotional video of that guy dancing around in his house to the song "The Heat Is On". He looked so happy and I thought just maybe.

Hi Spun,
Though the research mentioned above shows the product does have merit, statements made by the advertiser such as "How to solve the national bed bug problem in 34 seconds" (the title of the video below) may be misleading, given the data referenced above. You can kill bed bugs in under 34 seconds using this as a contact kill. But you can also smash them with your hand, or spray with other contact kill products.

I am not saying this is not a valid tool as it clearly has merit, but "solving the national bed bug problem" is a lot more complicated and slow, and the use of strong residuals and dusts (or thermal or gases) may lead to a faster, more complete "solution" of your bed bug problems.

And I am confused by references on the CedarCide site about the product's repellent qualities, elsewhere on the site. It would be good if researchers could clarify whether CedarCide is repellent to bed bugs, and if so, what the consequences of this might be in a home infestation.

This is "How to solve the national bed bug problem in 34 seconds" referred to above:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=55503477

This is the "How to use the fogger" video which I think Spun was referring to. I would be VERY interested to hear Jeff's comments on this methodology and the tri-jet fogger being used with CedarCide, given the test results above. I would also hope that some independent tests could be done in the field to determine how effective this method would be in a bed bug infested house.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=53196447
JWhiteBBCTV

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Jan 16 2010 11:37:28
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The thing that turns me off in regards to the product is the claims the manufacturer makes. They are SO over the top with "total elimination" and "you may need to treat twice", etc... that it makes me nauseous. As a company, we have used the product from time to time in certain accounts and it can be effective as a contact kill but the company is so ridiculous and misleading that I may recommend that we don't use it anymore. Until they back their claims down and stop misleading the consumer I'm having a hard time supporting their product.

That being said, the fogger topic is addressed in this earlier episode of BBTV:

[+] Embed the video Get the Video Widget

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The biggest thing that bothers me about the video is the fact that he's using a dust mask while applying the treatment. Maybe that's what the product calls for but I myself can't imagine using anything other than a full respirator for applying chemical in that fashion.

A fogger is a space treatment as you can see in his video. It will kill insects that are exposed to the pesticide that are walking up the wall, walking on the carpet, etc... As we know bed bugs hide in cracks and crevices, inside box springs, sofas, etc... Therefore space treatments (foggers) tend to be ineffective in eliminating a bed bug infestation from a home. Yes, it can kill the bugs walking up the wall, etc... but typically will not kill all bed bugs. In fact, most people avoid fogging for bed bugs because it tends to push bugs to areas you would not expect to find them and maybe even surrounding units. On top of that, anybody who's used this product knows that is has a very strong odor to it. I can't imagine fogging a home like that and the odor that would be left behind.

This would also typically prove ineffective for fleas. Yes it may kill fleas on the carpet, etc... but flea eggs would most likely be unaffected by this treatment (I can't say definitively since we don't have any research on this topic) and hatch days later. If you were diligent with this could you eventually solve your problem, maybe. Put your dog or cat on flea and tick prevention and that alone will solve many low level flea infestations. For your more involved problems, treatment beyond that gets complicated.

Some companies are using Cedarcide in a microinjector. This is a machine that creates a fog that can be injected into cracks, crevices, voids, etc... That could be effective in spots such as voids you're having trouble getting the bugs out of. The problem with microinjectors is that you don't always know where your treatment is going. You start injecting into a wall void and the chemical will push through the area but what's to say there isn't a flaw in the structure that introduces the chemical into the unit above or below. If a company told me they use it in certain spots where they are having issues and a microinjector may solve the problem, I don't have any problems with that.
Winston O. Buggy

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Jan 16 2010 12:24:00
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Not to mention Cedarcides conspiracy theories.
loubugs

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Jan 16 2010 19:21:32
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I, too, have been bombarded by Cedarcide emails and their obnoxious claims. One time was after the EPA bed bug meeting and all they kept saying is that they weren't allowed to talk (please understand this meant to me push their product). No one was -- it wasn't that kind of meeting. I know that their product contains silicone and sometimes you see silicone listed as silicone rubber, but never saw it listed as silicone latex. Possibly through a stretch of the imagination rubber = latex to them since I've see latex rubber as a product. The silicone must envelope all that it comes into contact with. If you spray a can of 100% silicone it probably kills the bugs and eggs, but it smells better with cedar.
Thanks for the study, Jeff & Changlu Wang.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Jan 16 2010 21:22:18
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Thanks, Jeff and Lou.

I know fogging for bed bugs is a bad idea where other products were concerned -- thanks, Jeff, for confirming it isn't a good idea with this product either.

Jeff, the grandiose claims made by the company in their advertising are also very troubling to me.

Winston, hit us with the conspiracy theories! Do you mean their claims about pesticides?
Winston O. Buggy

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Jan 17 2010 2:37:36
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No I mean their claims that tere is a conspiracy to get from everyone how effective their product is. This
message went out twice, once as Lou stated after the EPA meeting where they were asked not to hawk their product.
cilecto

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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Jan 17 2010 14:04:20
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Last time this topic was active, I did a little googling and discovered a few interesting things.
- CCBY is essentially silicone with cedar oil.
- Silicone is made of silicon, if/when it dries, it leaves a fine, powdery residue. That may explain the product's residual, if any.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki?search=Silicone
- A parallel debate about this product's use a a wood preservative is going on in building materials boards, complete with accusations of conspiracy.
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/33450/Cedar-oil-silicon-wood-preservative
jemanderson

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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Feb 3 2010 2:06:17
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cilecto - 2 weeks ago »
- Silicone is made of silicon, if/when it dries, it leaves a fine, powdery residue. That may explain the product's residual, if any.

You know, I've always suspected the same thing, as cedar oil on it's own has virtually no efficacy. Interesting they would use cedar as their hook, though. Guess it sounds more natural than silicone-cide.

I took a look at their MSDS and they list "hydrated silica" as the other ingredient. Is this the same as silicone? Or is silicone only used in their wood treatment product? I did a search on the former, wondering where I might buy some to mix up my own insecticidal spray -sans cedar oil, of course. Apparently it's often used in toothpaste. Other than that I can't seem to locate a source for purchase. I've experimented with the closest thing I can find locally, which is diamataceous earth. Problem is it leaves a nasty mess in it's wake, so "hydrated silica" sounds like a great alternative. Anyone know where to get this stuff?

Thanks in advance,
Jeremy
DougSummersMS

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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Feb 3 2010 22:35:34
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I like and use this product, but I agree completely with Jeff's sentiments about some of the claims that are being made in their marketing materials.

Some of the claims are rather dubious... I think it is a good product, but feel that it is being over-hyped... I wish it were the silver bullet

I have used it regularly to repel mosquitos as a DEET alternative when I am outdoors in Florida. I fog the exercise yard before I run my dogs at sunset.

I tried using it for flea control with mixed results... I found that it worked as a contact killer, but it did not provide much residual action... I had to apply it almost daily... I went back to pesticide based topical products

It will kill bed bugs on contact and I have used it on my skin without any adverse reaction... I think it is a useful tool, but seriously over-hyped in the marketing materials... This is the only product that is labeled for skin contact (that I am aware of) that is also labeled for bed bugs.

I think it could be useful as a flushing agent.

I inquired with the company... which told me that the product has a repellent effect, but did not offer any research evidence to back the claim. They said the research was tied up in a DOD review process.

I would love to see Rutgers or U of Kentucky evaluate the use of the product as a repellent / flushing agent.
BuggedOutInCT

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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Feb 12 2010 13:11:20
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I would like to see some clarification re the "hydrated silica". If the product does indeed contain something that leaves a residue of silicon flakes all over the place, that would surely be a serious health hazard. Speculation is all well and good, but what is the reality? Would anyone with even a shred of DE knowledge fog their home with DE?

I have considered getting some Cedarcide after I choose a PCO and coordinate the use with them. But I would still hesitate due to the Infommercial-Hucksteristic nature of their web site. Plus the fact that it can only be purchased directly sets off some red flags (but maybe the feds won't allow them to sell it any other way).

I am really struggling to deal with my infestation: I am now unsure that it IS bed bugs as I have yet to find a single one, dead or alive. And I DO have Spider Beetles, which leads me to wonder if it's mites rather than bed bugs. But I have fantasies about buying a few gallons and a fogger and just blasting away in true Arnold Schwarzenegger - Terminator style (the scene in T2 where he stands in the window with the Gatling gun comes to mind). It's just a coping mechanism to keep me sane (assuming I still am), but the urge to strap on a "Bed Bug" machine gun and blast away has such appeal.

I beleive they would sell a lot more product if they had a professional looking web site. One without a lot of claims that are not backed up by hard data like research results and outside studies performed. But as P. T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute". And H. L. Menken's famous "No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people" also comes to mind. So perhaps I am wrong and Cedarcide is getting the best return with their Snake Oil sales pitch.
cilecto

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Posted 3 years ago
Fri Feb 12 2010 14:30:53
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> They said the research was tied up in a DOD review process.
IIRC, there was a published study mentioned a few weeks back:
- killed on contact.
- bugs avoided treated surface for a few days.
- if bugs were forced to live on treated surface, they died within 2 weeks.

Department of DEFENSE? Why would they be interested in this research or hold it up? Is it in a special facility in New Mexico? Or in that big warehouse with "the lost ark"?
My hypothesis (OPINION) about this company is;
- their phone reps don't really know what works and make things up as they go. Think the customer might buy a fogger? Sell her a fogger. Customer asks about research? Make up something.
- it takes an organization, money, bank credit etc., to sell to the big stores. Owner either doesn't have it or doesn't want to play by their rules.
jemanderson

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Feb 20 2010 22:49:23
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BuggedOutInCT - 1 week ago »
I would like to see some clarification re the "hydrated silica".

Yup, "hydrated silica" is pretty darn vague. It can actually go by any number of names, per:
http://www.reade.com/Products/Oxides/silica.html

"Silica aerogel" seems like the most likely candidate, which cedarcide is claiming as melted quartz.
cilecto

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Posted 3 years ago
Sat Apr 17 2010 21:16:05
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The manufacturer has indicated on its web site that the ingredient is Hydrated Silica and that the reference to Latex is in error.
http://www.cedarcidestore.com/Dr_Changlu_Wang.html

Since Dr Wang tried to duplicate the supposed effects of Cerdarcide by applying latex alone (with no effect), shouldn't he rerun this test with Silica?

And is wholesale fogging of your home with Silica (as indicated on Cedarcide's videos) a smart move?
silvesro

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Jul 30 2010 23:56:43
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That is my post under nobugsonme. I had one case of bugs in one room, in Nov 09. Tennant got bit first nite, room had been empty for a month, and left next day. Sprayed with Best Yet, rented room 2 days later, no bugs no bites now for 9 mo. All other rooms still clear after one spray. 2 rooms required a couple more apps. I am happy to see the testing results has shown the same results i had. I used 6 bottles for 15 rooms.
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Jul 31 2010 23:37:11
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What specific kind of bugs did you deal with, Silvesro?
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Aug 1 2010 0:48:12
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silvesro - 1 day ago »
That is my post under nobugsonme. I had one case of bugs in one room, in Nov 09. Tennant got bit first nite, room had been empty for a month, and left next day. Sprayed with Best Yet, rented room 2 days later, no bugs no bites now for 9 mo. All other rooms still clear after one spray. 2 rooms required a couple more apps. I am happy to see the testing results has shown the same results i had. I used 6 bottles for 15 rooms.

Yes, independent tests have determined there is some value in this product.

However, it is not a miracle cure. This thread responds to some of Silvesro's claims in a bit more detail.
DLTBBB

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Aug 1 2010 8:26:55
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hatethembuggers - 6 months ago »
If that fails, I will try another PCO. Anyone have any solid recommendations for PCO's in the NYC area? I am so terribly suspicious of any claims that these damn bugs can be gotten rid of.

I know Killerqueen is in this area. He posts here often and seems reasonable. I am not using him because it looks like we are opting for the thermal treatment (at his recommendation, really) and he doesn't have the equipment for that. It sort of looks like I'm going with Bliss Pest Control now, but I can't recommend them, yet, because the procedure hasn't been done, yet.

BTW, I'm sorry to see you here, but welcome.
WontHarborPests

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Aug 1 2010 22:21:05
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Regarding CedarCide: I have used it against cockroaches, and have found it extremely effective.

I have lived in apartments in Cincinnati and have had to battle roaches. I can tell you that the petroleum-based products do not work. Also, I believe that they have a very dangerous effect on the liver. And they stink.

Back in the 1980's, Paul Harvey did a commerical for a product called "Roach Pruf." This is a powder, orthoboric acid, light blue in color. I applied as directed and we got rid of a very bad infestation. We got re-infested when our oven broke and the landlord brought us a used, terribly roach-infested, stove.

As long as the powder stays dry, it works. Apparently it suffocates the roaches. It is residual and mechanical in action. I believe that plain old baking soda or baking powder--can't remember which--is also effective: It makes them explode.

I put it under my bed and around baseboards. You shouldn't use it in food-prep areas, but I did brush it into the corners of my kitchen cabinets. Also put it under my sofa. Everywhere, in fact.

3 or 4 years ago, in a new apartment, I got a cockroach invasion. I tried the roach pruf but had limited success. Turned out that although I dusted under my fridge and stove, when I vaccuumed, the vaccuum blew the dust toward the wall under the appliances, leaving my floor unprotected. I didn't know that until years later.

A different forum that I visit recommended CedarCide. I found the website, called, and talked to an older man, who was very nice and very knowledgeable. I bought the spray--a little larger than a bottle of Fantastik. With this I was able to get into the cracks above and between my kitchen cabinets, and between my dishwasher and the wall, and under my dishwasher. Success. Cockroach free.

I hate the smell of cedar, but I love being roach free. Addtionally, I know for a fact that the apartment complex I am in has bedbug problems--I live in the City of Cincinnati. I have awakened a couple of times with bites--maybe twice in 10 years. Who knows what it was, but I am not troubled with bedbugs.

I hope that I remain lucky, and I feel for all of you who have this horrible problem. It wears on you psychologically. Adding lack of sleep to that would be horrendous.

My advice is to give the CedarCide spray a try. It won't hurt, and it may help. You probably should re-apply to get the eggs that will hatch. To me, it sounds similar to treating head-lice-- (yes, I had to deal with that horror with my daughter.) I had to treat twice. Once for the adults, and then again a week later to get the eggs when they hatched. And wash everything.

You may also wish to try the RoachPruf under your bed. You can buy it at Ace Hardware. It's in a yellow can, and you need an applicator, long-sleeved clothes, and a good dust mask. For an applicator, I use a picnic-type ketchup squeeze bottle.

The RoachPruf website is here http://www.copperbrite.com/

Best wishes to you all.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Aug 1 2010 23:16:29
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Roaches and bed bugs are very different pests. Roaches eat lots of stuff, roam around in search of food and "groom" themselves. They tend to drag more on the gound and have broad footpads for stuff to get stuck on. This way, Boric acid gets all over them and in them. Bed bugs have no "mouths", just probes for anesthetizing their host and for sucking up blood. They do not groom like roaches. Their foot pads are smaller, they travel high off the surface (like a military Humvee) and stuff does not catch on this. For these reasons, we've been advised by the pros that Boric acid is ineffective.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Aug 2 2010 2:30:36
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WontHarborPests - 4 hours ago »

I put it under my bed and around baseboards. You shouldn't use it in food-prep areas, but I did brush it into the corners of my kitchen cabinets. Also put it under my sofa. Everywhere, in fact.
3 or 4 years ago, in a new apartment, I got a cockroach invasion. I tried the roach pruf but had limited success.

[snip]

A different forum that I visit recommended CedarCide. I found the website, called, and talked to an older man, who was very nice and very knowledgeable. I bought the spray--a little larger than a bottle of Fantastik. With this I was able to get into the cracks above and between my kitchen cabinets, and between my dishwasher and the wall, and under my dishwasher. Success. Cockroach free.

[snip]

My advice is to give the CedarCide spray a try. It won't hurt, and it may help. You probably should re-apply to get the eggs that will hatch. To me, it sounds similar to treating head-lice-- (yes, I had to deal with that horror with my daughter.) I had to treat twice. Once for the adults, and then again a week later to get the eggs when they hatched. And wash everything.

[snip]

You may also wish to try the RoachPruf under your bed...
The RoachPruf website is here ...

Hi WontHarborPests,

I am not sure why you have sought out a bed bug forum, if you don't have bed bugs, just to suggest a something that killed your roaches.

Boric acid is not a good choice for killing bed bugs. Roaches eat it, that kills them. Bed bugs will only walk through it and it is not a good pesticide for them. So RoachPruf sounds like it will NOT get rid of bed bugs.

CedarCide has been tested on bed bugs and the information above about those tests is worth a lot more than speculation based on your experience of using it with roaches.

Thanks for stopping by. I hope you never have to deal with bed bugs, as they are a major pain. Experts agree they are the most difficult pest to get rid of.
silvesro

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Aug 20 2010 23:26:56
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The bugs were bed bugs Cilecto. Rented room Wed. August 11/10. Tennant phoned next morning. Had a dozen or so bites. Captured a few bugs to show me. Went there and saw 20 to 30 bugs in mattress and as many in box spring. Did not relize previous tennant had moved middle of July and let a homeless person stay there without my consent for 3 weeks.
Sprayed with cedar. Watched bugs die within seconds. No further reports from tennant of bugs or bites up to to- day. Cedar kills by suffication, as explained on thier site, so bugs cannot become immune. What ever you think of the company, I have had excellent results with product.
Have bought the fogger and will fog all rooms, next week. Will report on application.
Might play same music while fogging. Looks like fun.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Aug 21 2010 1:50:33
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silvesro - 2 hours ago »
The bugs were bed bugs Cilecto. Rented room Wed. August 11/10. Tennant phoned next morning. Had a dozen or so bites.

I'm confused. Didn't you say above,

I had one case of bugs in one room, in Nov 09. Tennant got bit first nite, room had been empty for a month, and left next day. Sprayed with Best Yet, rented room 2 days later, no bugs no bites now for 9 mo.

Are you saying the exact same thing happened in November 2009 and again in August 2010?
silvesro

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Aug 23 2010 0:38:44
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Yes. There are 15 rooms. These are separate incidents. As explained, tennant moved and gave keys to homeless person, without my knowledge in July, 2010. When I contacted tennant, one week ago, she had no bites or any indication bugs were there before she left July 15, 2010. So have to assume homeless person brought in bugs. That person had been at shelters in Winnepeg earlyer in the month. As I stated, this was my first bug case since Nov.09. About 9-10 mo.
The Nov 09 was a different room. Kicked out tennant in Oct 09 for drug use and rented it in Nov 09.
Can't verify where bugs came from or how long there. Mabye one found its way there from original infestation, thru the ceilings, or drugy picked it up from a crack house. Drug addict probably would not have known he was being bitten. I have 5 rooming houses. This so far is only one infested. But as the bugs become more and more prevailent, and as i rent a lot to shelter and homeless people, I want to be ready for another infestation. Thats why to-day, I picked up the fogger at the border. I know from MY experience with cedar oil, I do not have to fear the bugs no longer. It is a good feeling.
silvesro

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Aug 25 2010 23:45:48
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Up date on rooms sprayed for bedbugs. Room sprayed Nov 09, still no bugs or bugs in room next to it or under it. By the way, bugs were very visible on box and matteress.
Room sprayed August 11/10, tennant found baby bug on bed last nite, August 24/10. Killed it.
Must be from an egg that just hatched, that was well hidden. Used my new fogger, this morning in room. Will see what results.
Fogger works just like in video. Put it on low setting. Lots of product sprayed. Pointed it wrong way, and sprayed myself, twice.
Suggest wearing better respirator than mask sent. Fog will probably not make you sick, but very intense in room and you do breathe a lot in with thier loose fitting cheap mask. Will also wear swimming goggles next time. Eyes a little sore to nite.
Again I can only say, I have had excellant results so far with Bestyet.
Also destroyed ant nest in wifes flower garden. About one week ago I sprayed it manually.
So far no ants in that nest yet.
I visit the States about once a month and last year my wife and I got bit in a Motel 6 in MN. They were very good, gving me 2 nite credit. We have stayed there a number of times since and no problem. But I do inspect now and carry my bug spray. After visual check, upon checking in, I give a light spray on bed, ect and go shopping or golfing for a few hours. By the time coming back, cedar smell is mostly gone. Stayed there first of August and my golfing partner stayed at the Radisson Hotel downtown. A few days later, back home, showed me three marks on shoulder, close to gether, and asked if bedbug bites. I could not be positive of course, but sure looked like it. Now he doesn't know where to stay.
When I first got bedbugs in my rooming house (see earlyer posts), not understanding them, I brought them home. We were bit pretty good soon after. The bites don't bother me, but my wife is allergic to them and has a real problem. Called in my roach exterminater. He sprayed with a product, that he said was now illegal, but had some left. It must have worked, but the smell was so powerful and sickening, we could not use bedroom for 2 weeks. I set the matress and box outside for two weeks in 20 to 30 below weather. Have not had any problems since. He tried to kill bugs in first infestation at rooming house, as stated in first post, but had no luck. They just spread, until I used Bestyet.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Aug 26 2010 0:17:20
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I would really like to see an independent entomologist test of this Best Yet plus fogger combo.

Until we do, I am afraid I still think the fogging is a bad idea for the reasons stated above by Jeff White.

This is not to deny your perceptions of your experience, silvesro.

But if bed bugs are being pushed into surrounding areas, you might not notice. And when bed bugs pop up in your building again (as they have done several times), you would not necessarily know that they had (perhaps) been there the whole time, pushed into tiny gaps or other units by the fogger, undetected for a time (as bed bugs often tend to be, when they enter a new space).
silvesro

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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Aug 26 2010 9:41:43
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This is the first time I have used the fogger, All other times were sprayed. What do you mean by being pushed into an area. The fogger is a mist. The mist has no pressure to force a bug to move. And if it hits the bug, it is dead in seconds. The several times bugs came back was as I recall twice. And as I carefully explained in last posts, they were brought in at least one incidence and possibly the other.
I rent to high bedbug risk tennants, as they come from all over the country, and have stayed at shelters. It is not a perception of mine, it is the facts. There seems to be a hard resistance to a product that works on this blog and I wonder what the reason is. If I needed a product, and read about the success that someone had with one, I would jump at the chance to use it. The cost compared to, lets say thermal, is minimal. Even if it takes 2 or 3 sprays. How many times can someone afford the thermal method when they come back, becaus one bug was missed or they go to the show and pick one up?
Listen all you folks that have a bug problem and are at your wits end. My building was totally infested by bugs, fifteen rooms. I bought the product, sprayed, and next day tennants were sleeping comfortably again. That is not a perception. That is a fact. Don't listen to the naysayers that think they have all the answers from thier computer chairs, just try it.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Aug 26 2010 9:49:16
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Dude we want independent testing. Standard foggers, as Jeff White a damn respected expert around here, will cause the bugs to flee deeper to escape the danger and hence spread.

It isn't air pressure but the bugs own self preservation that leads to this.

If this stuff is different than it should prove that in an evaluation.

I just love how the answer to get proof is always buy the product. These companies will not provide info that can be scrutinized to back up the claims.

Jim
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Aug 26 2010 10:33:24
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I am under the impression that one of the parties that BestYet claims to have been impressed with their product in their marketing material is NOT at all happy and a potential lawsuit is underway.

I will stress that a product may perform well on a hit an miss basis (which usually relates to coincidences). The true test of a product is whether it stands up to repeated scientific rigor with great results every time. I agree that the product may work some of the time in very unique cases where you can spray the bugs directly.

Let's put this in perspective: Would you be happy taking a pill that claims to prevent pregnancy based on observations of a few? Is it not possible that in the small test market that they tried the pill out with that a percentage of the women were not fertile; or that a percentage of their male partners were sterile, or that upon intercourse the stars did not line up? In all of these cases the pill would have worked 100% and the product would appear to be fantastic. Put that same pill through scientific rigor and you may see VERY different results.

A company's reluctance to put a product that is supposedly "the silver bullet" for bed bugs and could make them MILLIONS of dollars if proven is VERY SUSPICIOUS ...

Sean
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Aug 26 2010 12:20:50
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Excellent analogy, Sean. After all, you can't be a little bit pregnant. You are or you aren't. And I think there's a comparison to bed bugs in there, but it's not one I can formulate this morning.

However, your comparison is a great explanation of why anecdotal evidence just isn't the same thing as solid, reproduced over time, stands up to scientific methodology kinds of proof.

I do think it's important for individuals to post to the boards about new technologies and substances--when they are new--so that they'll hit on everyone's radar screen. But the importance of posting about them is to bring them to the attention of the experts so that they can be tested in the rigorous methodology that science requires.

Cedarcide is on the radar screen. The next step in the process isn't more anecdotal evidence--that phase of its awareness has met its purpose.

The next step is scientific testing.
silvesro

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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Aug 26 2010 22:07:26
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Hey, Dude, I am an independent tester. I don't own the company, I don't work for the company, I don't sell the product and my posts were not the company trying to sneak in a spam, disguised as a regular persons post. I just wonder how the bugs recognize the spray as a danger, and flee. Do they see me sneaking up on them, do they have prior knowledge of cedar oil, did thier mothers warn them about it when they were babys. Once the oil is upon them, they are dead in seconds. No time to run. Read up on how the product works. When I spray a mattress with a spray bottle, I don't see the bugs running as the spray approaches. They just stay put. When the oil hits, they move for a few seconds, 3 or 4 and then die. A glorious site. Yes, the proof is to buy the product and try it. And all this nonsence about a pill and pregnant women. Makes no sense at all. I wonder how women appreciate being compared with bedbugs. My wife certainly did not.

"However, your comparison is a great explanation of why anecdotal evidence just isn't the same thing as solid, reproduced over time, stands up to scientific methodology kinds of proof."
You are right, Buggy, it is good to have proof. But many medical treatment we use to day are based on
anecdotal evidence, simply because a double blind study is not practical. Think of heart bypass and transplants. And where is spydeyjg's scientific evidence that the bugs run from cedar oil. Jeff says re: fleas "(I can't say definitively since we don't have any research on this topic) Does Jeff have some "solid, reproduced over time, stands up to scientific methodology kinds of proof" that the bugs are pushed away, or is this just his own anecdotal evidence. Some companies are using Cedarcide in a microinjector, he says, so compays ARE using the product and fogger. He mentions the chemical going into other units. I don't think this is a chemical, ie something that is dangerous. And I am sure the other units would not mind the rather pleasant cedar smell, if they know the bugs alongside them were being killed. The odour, as he says, is intense, but it is gone within hours. The rooms I sprayed yesterday morning, as a precaution, are free from odour this morning, just a mild cedar smell and the tennant in one slept in his room, without any odour problem.
Anecdotal evidence, you betcha.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Aug 26 2010 22:29:22
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And where is spydeyjg's scientific evidence that the bugs run from cedar oil. Jeff says re: fleas "(I can't say definitively since we don't have any research on this topic) Does Jeff have some "solid, reproduced over time, stands up to scientific methodology kinds of proof" that the bugs are pushed away, or is this just his own anecdotal evidence.

I didn't say they flee cedar oil but they will flee if they sense danger and or one releases the alarm pheromone.

For example there was a thermal test done in a hotel room treatment and the bugs tried to flee the heat. David James also had a packtite video where a calm jar of bugs began to freak and seek escape as the temp got dangerous.

Jeff White's point is conventional foggers have caused bugs to flee therefore it is of grave concern when fogging is mentioned. I put a lot of faith in the "anecdotal evidence" of Jeff White's observations.

Maybe this stuff is different but I want to see some controlled info.

Myself, since there is evidence of egg destruction, may get some as a contact treatment.

Does the stuff have an expiration date?
thebedbugresource

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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Aug 26 2010 23:35:44
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Take some Windex and spray a bed bug directly with it ... It will die. Hit it with a shoe ... it will die. There are many "non-traditional" ways to kill a bed bug when contacted directly.

We are not concerned with contact killers . We know there are many that work.

What we want to see is residual effect. It is next to impossible to hit every single bed bug and bed bug egg in a single application and thus the need for a residual product.

Read my comments above. Read the comments of Jeff White in other threads. Read the comments of many entomologists. None of them claim that cedarcide does not work when sprayed directly on a bed bug.

Do you honestly think that the major companies have not been approached by the inventors of Cecarcide? Do you honestly think that they have not field tested the product? If it is so good why is it not in use by the major companies? And don't give me some BS about a conspiracy with the pesticide manufacturers. Quicker eradication of bed bugs = more business.

I don't think this is a chemical, i.e. something that is dangerous.

For the record ... it is a chemical; so is water.

Sean
silvesro

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Aug 27 2010 23:32:23
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Good points. In the heat test, the heat takes time to go to killing temp. So of course the bugs will look for a cooler place. They have lots of time to look. As the heat rises in the jar, they become very uncomfortable well before death ensues. So hardly a comparison to a spay of almost instant death.
Possibly as they die, they release a dying, danger hormone, that the others pick up. That would make sense. I do not see an expiry date on bottles.
I have no idea why the major companies don't use it. Although, I understand that some are, especially for motel, hotels. Possibly because of the cost. Why use it if other chemical are doing the job at a lesser cost. When I mentioned it to my exterminator, he shirked at the cost. Of course it is a chemical. Thank you for that. My reference was to, as expained, a dangerous chemical. It should have read, dangerous chemical. This is what I thought Jeff was refering to. "I put a lot of faith in the "anecdotal evidence" of Jeff White's observations." Yes, and so we should. After all, he is a professional, and I assume in the business. And I suppose it would be difficult to do a double blind study, so anacdotal evidence is really all we have.
So here is my anacdotal evidence.
I cleared 15 rooms infested with bed bugs with one spray of Cedercide. I used 6- 1 liter spray bottles for 15 rooms @ $35 ea. All the tennants had been bit the previous nite or within 3 nites back. Some had the bugs and did not tell me for a month. All the tennants slept in thier beds that nite after the spray and did not have any bites that nite. There was no incidence of bed bugs for about a year after that. They appeared again in 2 rooms. See previous posts above. All tennents washed clothes. Dryed in high heat. At least they said they did. I suspect some just kept the money I gave them. Some mattresses and boxes were changed. Some put in bug proof covers. The rooms were totally sprayed. All box and mattress, floor area, base boards, dresser drawers ect. I had no idea how the product would work. But nothing else was. I had been fighting them for a number of months. Some tennants moved out, couldn't take the misery. You can understand my relief and joy, when day after day went by, and no reports of bites. They came in by way of a used mattress I purchased at the used store. Not knowing anything about bugs, I just replaced it. And brought the bugs home. Sometime later when other tennants started to get bit, in other rooms, I knew I had a problem. It must have a good residual kill, because I know I did not kill every bug or egg with a direct hit. To many places to hide in a 100 yr old building.
So that is my anacdotal evidence. I have been told that I am lying, spamming for the company, I don't actually exist, and just a bs'er.
Call me what you want, but that's my story, and I'am sticking to it.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Aug 28 2010 0:28:11
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silvesro - 52 minutes ago »
This is what I thought Jeff was refering to. "I put a lot of faith in the "anecdotal evidence" of Jeff White's observations." Yes, and so we should.

I linked to a post from Jeff White in my post above, where he explains why you should not be using a fogger (including a fogger with Best Yet).

The bottom line as others have noted is that independent tests of the product with a fogger by an entomologist under controlled conditions are needed.

Controlled conditions = you know there are bed bugs in the space, and you know where they go (if anywhere) after the fogging occurs. This is not something a layperson can do in their own building.

Independent= we know you are not connected with the product and its sales. (You can say this, but we have no way of knowing)

Entomologist='nuff said.
silvesro

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Aug 28 2010 18:00:19
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Just to be perfectly clear. All my sucess with cedar oil has been by manual spraying, not fogging. I only just purched the fogger. I have only used it on empty rooms as a precaution.
Three times. And because it has a deoderizing effect. Leaves the room very fresh. As mentioned in my post, I agree with Jeff that a better mask should be used. But I so far, I have only used the mask sent and have had no problems. I disagree with him re: odour. It is strong at first, but after about 3 hours it is gone. Just a light cedar aroma, which my tennants say they like. Also, the mist or fog, I see it going into the cracks and crevises, that a liquid would have a hard time to penatrate. It is so fine, that nothing could escape penetration. The mattress or box or any other article is totaly saturated in seconds. There is no way a manual spray would be that fast or effective. I can do in a few moments what would take me an hour manually. And the product gets everywhere. He calls it a space fogger. Not a correct term for this unit. This deposits the product in every crack and crevice, box springs and sofas. Not just into the air, or on the walls. And if there is any bed bugs in the crevice, I know where they go after spraying, dead. After all my study and experience with BB, I consider myself a very well informed "layperson"
No way to tell if I am not connected. Possibly you are connected with a company that is in competition with Best yet. Do we have a way of knowing. Let me know how you prove your disconnect, and I will use the same method.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Aug 28 2010 20:48:27
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silvesro,

I am simply clarifying why your statements about the product do not constitute "independent entomologist's tests under controlled conditions."

I am still going to advise people based on expert opinions such as Jeff's above. If I am given independent testing data that shows this product should be used with the fogger the company is hawking, and is effective when so used, and does not spread bed bugs further into the structure as entomologists have suggested above that it might, then I have no problem with that.

If you are a happy customer, that's great. Your persistence suggests you may be more than that.
Eve

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Aug 28 2010 21:37:16
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You know, Nobugs, I do know where you're coming from. But my take on Silvesro's persistence is that s/he is something of an activist. I applaud those who provide housing for high risk groups and understand their financial limitations. That s/he is even willing to attempt to cope with recurrent infestations where most high risk (and some low risk) landlords would simply attempt to ignore the situation, wins from me a certain admiration. The fact that infestations seem recurrent is not a reflection on the effectiveness of her/his methods either. With high risk tenants, one has to expect recurrence of all sorts of infestations (of which bed bugs are only one).

Also, while the data is anecdotal and I understand the hazards of that evidence (from actual academic study of statistics and probability), in the beginning all data is anecdotal.

So, in that vein, Silvesro, when you use the fogger what sort of residue (if any) is left on the surfaces. As in, is there sticky stuff on the surfaces that would attract dust or feel vaguely "icky" to the touch? I understand you only use the fogger in vacation rooms but I'm assuming the possibility they might be semi-furnished given your clientele.

Eve
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Jan 1 2011 23:09:13
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Hello from Texas

I am a Virgo so I research every thing. I started by calling the EPA to get the scoop on CedarCide and the Best Yet Product. I had a long conversation with them on a speaker phone, the owners of my company listing. I think if you all would call and research , you could learn much. Second I called the Texas Structural Pest Control Board and talked with a very knowledgeable individual. They told me just about the same things I got from the EPA. The product is B25 exempt (see FIFRA Docs) as was quoted by the EPA and Texas Structural Pest Control Board to me. I feel that I need not go into details as each individual questioning this product should have called the appropriate entities to verify the product in the first place.

I will give another small amount of info I used to research also:

CAS Number Wt % Component Name
68990-83-0 10.0 - 20.0 Cedar Oil (CAS#8000-27-9)
7699-41-4 80.0 - 90.0 Hydrated Silica (Silicic Acid)

Looking up the CAS Number provides a lot of info and answers questions and doubts (Both CAS are mixed and processed and are B25 exempt quoted as “SAFE food grade product”)

First I had a lot of questions after reading so many different things on-line so I decided to try it myself first.

I purchased 4 quart sized bottles of Best Yet and the Fogger. I received my products the next day.

I took many of my wife's canning jars and commenced to capturing many types of insects. I will name a few.

Crickets
Grass hoppers man different sized
Spider Large Wood spider
Spider Large wolf spider
Spider small house spider
Yellow Asp
Black Asp
White Asp
Sugar Ants
Fire Ants
Army worms
Black Soldier Fly Larva
Maggots
Fly
Roach (German) they crawl 8- 12 inches flip on their backs kick for a second or two and are dead.

I used a 24 oz spray bottle purchased from the dollar general store. I used 3 full squirts into each jar.
The Large Spiders and Grass Hoppers took the longest to Die Spider-8 hrs., Grasshoppers-2 hrs. The Asp’s took just under 3 minutes, all others less than a minute < 1 minute. I love to do direct spray on fly’s.

I have since completed 6 bedbug jobs from low income apartments to a doctors home. I use the fogger and Best Yet. Here is what I have found.

I do IPM:

1. Dust all receptacles (plugs, lights, phone, cable any opening) I use 2 dusting products
2. I use a B&G and a IGR around the baseboards
3. Best Yet Hand Spray in the seems of beds and any known infected furniture
4. Best Yet fogger ( the fogger has High, Medium, Low settings and you must use them to be effective)
5. Never do just a room. (I do the completed apartment or home) Adjacent walls a must be treated in apartments.

Here are my reasons for using the fogger.

1. Most of the clients we get called to service will not take all the linen and clothes to the laundry mat to wash or even just dry on hight heat. They only remove the items and after we leave they just put it all back in the apartment or home. Fogging with the best yet alleviates that requirement. Setting the fogger on low we can penetrate the clothes in the closets, and drawers. (All drawers and cabinets are fogged)
2. It penetrates the furniture unless it is leather. Then a direct spray is warranted.
3. I can send the fog through the ventilation system.

We only wear a dust mask while fogging. We fog until visibility is less than 2 feet. We fog everywhere The beds are fogged direct with medium and low settings to ensure penetration. We roll the furniture and fog inside out. We fog until the fog comes through the furniture from the underside. (If it is necessary we get permission from the owner to open or remove the underlining of the couch or chairs “if necessary” I have done that only once.)

We inform the customer when we are done in the home it will have looked like they were invaded by some one looking for gold in the house. all bed linen is removed and fogged, pillow cases etc…

We have had 100% success rate. No Service Calls. We call our clients the next day, on the 3rd day after, and the following week to ensure they are happy and bug free.

They are happy and so are we!

(600 - 750 square foot apartment takes approx. 1.5 hrs with 2 workers
1,250 - 1,750 square foot home takes approx. 2.5 hrs with 2 workers)

If anyone one would like to call and talk to me about our operation drop me a line.

P.S. We were doing general pest control the other day at a very popular country singers ranch/home. I was walking down the outside of the barn spraying fly’s with BY watching them fall to the ground, and I was laughing because the owner was behind me with a B&G filled with CY-KICK-CS .05% spraying fly’s and they just flew away.

Safety Note: Disconnect all smoke/carbon dioxide detectors and make sure all gas and pilot- lights are off. I unplug all electrical equipment and remove all live plants. Re-entry in 6 hrs is what I tell my clients to give fog time to work !

Thanks for the opportunity to post. I did not post this to debate just to report our experiences and uses of Best Yet.

R A Mac
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jan 2 2011 1:38:01
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Ramac10,

Are you a licensed pest control operator?

Because the experienced pest control pros who know a lot about bed bugs keep telling us that area fogging -- in general -- is not a good treatment method for bed bugs. That it won't kill them all and can actually spread them deeper into the home.

If this is happening in the bed bug cases you have treated in this way, then perhaps it would be the case that if you asked clients 7 days later if their bed bugs were gone, you'd get a yes. It might take much longer to find out they had been moved around but not entirely killed by a fogger.

I stress that I am commenting on the use of the fogging sevice specifically. I am just speculating as to possible effects based on what we are routinely told about fogging. I am not an expert but I hope some of them will comment.
drknlvly6781

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Jan 8 2011 18:55:42
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I know for experience that fogging is very effective, but only if done correctly. If all the steps are not followed when fogging, or fogging solely is used, you are bound for a re-infestation.

You first have to determine the extent of the infestation in the home, and the structure of the home itself. What rooms are the bedbugs in? Is this an apartment building or a free-standing unit?

If the infestation is contained to one room, a light treatment of the rooms that are connected by a wall should be done first. This way you corral the bugs in the affected room to be treated.

Treating a room is not just fogging the room. What's best is to spray treat all furniture in the room, treat all the shelves, baseboards, and windows. If this is a bedroom with clothes, the clothes should either be hung in the room, or bagged in air-tight bags to be laundered. Once this is done, you then fog the room.

The affected room should then be treated extensively.

This is the method that I used to treat my own home, and have been bedbug free for three months. I still treat once a month, due to traffic in and out of my home. But I have not seen a bug since.
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Jan 8 2011 21:28:42
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Whom are we to trust, experts who have worked years or decades in the fields and know the science, or...

Someone who just arrived here and has only her own experience, qualified with the facts that her "fogging" is not what a typical user would do and that she repeats treatment monthly?

...and presents herself via a web site that tries to pretend it's a bona-fide local activist, ala New York vs. bed Bugs or Chicago vs. Bed Bugs, but on second glance, isn't?

Here's what the expert community says about foggers:

Bedbugger.com FAQ
http://bedbugger.com/2007/05/30/bombs-dont-work-on-bed-bugs-citation-anyone/

Bombs and foggers don’t work on bed bugs and can make them worse
by nobugsonme on May 30, 2007 · 38 comments

in bed bugs, bedbugs, bombs, foggers, fumigation

Bug bombs ( and aerosol foggers) do not get rid of bed bugs. They can make your bed bug problems worse, by spreading them deep into your walls or to your neighbors (not the intended effect in a multi-unit building).

■Do not use OTC foggers or bug bombs to fight bed bugs.
■Don’t let a landlord or professional set off a bomb or fogger in your home.
When this FAQ was originally written in March 2007, many university fact sheets and similar materials did not warn consumers not to use foggers or bug bombs to fight bed bugs. The best ones did, and now, in 2010, this information is becoming much more widely known.

The first edition of Stephen Doggett’s Australian Bed Bug Code of Practice (PDF) states,

Aerosols should never be used as space sprays for bed bug elimination; the fine droplets simply will not penetrate into the locations where the insects hide. As most contain pyrethroids, there is an associated excitatory flushing effect and by spraying into a space rather than harbourage areas, the bugs are likely to disperse and can spread an infestation. Like aerosols, the smoke generating insecticides (known as pyrotechnics) or total release insecticides (‘bombs’) are also unlikely to penetrate into harbourage areas.

Dr. Michael F. Potter of the University of Kentucky has an entire page on the “Limitations of Home Insect Foggers (‘Bug Bombs’).” It notes that they do not work well, can pose health risks due to how pesticide residues settle onto exposed surfaces and may be flammable.

couchbugs writes:

The official NYC Department of Health & Mental Hygiene pamphlet on bed bugs says (rather colorfully, I might add):

“Foggers and bug bombs are not effective against [bed bugs].”
(page 7)

and

“Do not use pesticide bombs or foggers to control pests. They can make conditions worse.”
(page 14/back cover)

The NYCDOH guide is available as a PDF you can hand to your relative or landlord, when they try to use bombs.

MICHIGAN MANUAL FOR THE PREVENTION
AND CONTROL OF BED BUGS

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/emergingdiseases/Bed_Bug_Manual_v1_full_reduce_326605_7.pdf

P18:Do not use ‘bug bombs’ or total release foggers to treat for bed bugs. They put people and pets at risk, but do not get rid of the bed bugs. These devices release insecticides in small droplets which fall on surfaces, but do not get into the cracks and crevices where bed bugs live. The use of these products has been linked to acute pesticide toxicity in people and pets through misuse.

BUG BOMBS: Fogger or “bug bomb” products may have labels that are misleading. The label may clearly say Bedbug Fogger, but these products are not effective in reaching the crevices and hiding spots that bed bugs harbor in. These products are often over-used because of difficulty in calculating the total cubic feet of the space to be treated, or because of a lack of effectiveness (“more is better”). Overuse of these products may cause mild to severe illness.

P26: The use of “bug bombs” or total release foggers is not advised. While some of these products may be labeled for use against bed bugs, this delivery method is unlikely to control a bed bug infestation and can be very dangerous if applied incorrectly.

P47: Foggers, commonly called “bug bombs” are liquid aerosol insecticides that are released into the air of an indoor space. They are not effective for bed bug control. The use of these methods has also been linked to acute pesticide toxicity in people through misuse, insecticide resistance in bed bugs, and is suspected to promote the dispersal and potential spread of bed bugs through repellency.

P55: Foggers cause bed bugs to spread.

And with silica being a suspected cause of incurable lung disease, why would I want to fog a home, repeatedly, with a substance, which despite its branding, is essentially silica and water?
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jan 9 2011 20:33:15
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Thanks, Cilecto. Well-supported rebuttal.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Mar 15 2011 18:09:59
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Silica, silicone, and silicon are all different things.

Silicon is a chemical element. Silicone and silica are materials that contain both silicon and other elements.

Silicon is found in many different minerals, in forms that differ by (among other things) how many oxygen atoms there are per silicon atom. Silicon normally bonds to four other atoms. A silicon atom can share oxygen atoms with other silicon atoms, or it can have the oxygen atom all to itself. An unshared oxygen has a negative charge, which is balanced by the presence of another element such as sodium.

Silica is what you have when all the oxygen atoms are shared between two silicon atoms. It's very abundant in the form of quartz. It's also the major component of diatomaceous earth (DE). When it's a dust fine enough to get into the lungs, it can cause silicosis in people with long-term occupational exposure to some types. It's confusing what risk (if any) it poses in the form of DE as a pesticide ingredient. Some people say it's safe, but the consensus seems to be that we should err on the side of caution.

Silicone is a diverse group of compounds containing not only silicon and oxygen but also carbon and hydrogen. It includes the rubber-like stuff that aquariums are sealed with, Silly Putty, and silicone lubricants, and many others.

The pest control company that's going to be spraying my apartment sent me an MSDS for Cedarcide Best Yet. It says that CCBY contains cedar oil and mixed silicones, listed according to whether they have 8, 10, 12, or many silicon atoms in the chain. The only mention it makes of silica is as a combustion product. It gives ranges for how much it contains of different silicone compounds, with the ranges totaling 90% to 200%. Go figure. (I think the reason it totals over 100% is that they're saying that 12 can also count as "many".) This stuff sounds pretty similar. If so, the silicone in CCBY mostly evaporates.
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Mar 15 2011 18:58:07
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What's "hydrated silica", as Best Yet lists that as 90%? (it's also in my toothpaste, fwiw)
http://jple.cedarcide.com/bestyet/pdfdata/bestyetmsds.pdf
BBGen0cide

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Mar 15 2011 19:12:44
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From my own personal usage, this product is BS. I have used it on my skin to avoid bites, DOES NOT EVEN WORK AS A REPELLENT FOR ME.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Mar 15 2011 20:25:37
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I haven't checked this as much as I did with the silicones in the previous post, but basically, hydrated silica is silica with water substituted for some of the silicon atoms.

It can be silica gel, as in those thingies labeled "do not eat" that come in bottles of vitamin pills. It can be opal, when it forms from diatomaceous earth and hot water deep underground. When it has as much water as it can take, it can be a white powder called "silicic acid". It won't dissolve in cold water, according to the MSDS for silicic acid, although I think a trace actually would dissolve if you start with distilled water that hasn't been exposed to glass to already dissolve the infinitesimal amount of silica it can hold.

What it can't be, as far as I can see, is a clear liquid that mixes 90:10 with cedar oil. So I believe the CCBY MSDS that says silicone, not the one that says hydrated silica.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Mar 15 2011 22:50:00
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I wrote:

It says that CCBY contains cedar oil and mixed silicones, listed according to whether they have 8, 10, 12, or many silicon atoms in the chain.

Oops. It has two numbers in the name: how many methyl groups (-CH3) and how many silicon atoms. In the case of these simple standard silicone molecules, it carries the same information because whenever you add another repeat to the pattern it's two more methyl groups and one more silicon. But I wrote the numbers for how many methyl groups and said I was writing the one for how many silicon. The corrected version:

It says that CCBY contains cedar oil and mixed silicones, listed according to whether they have 3, 4, 5, or many silicon atoms in the chain.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Mar 17 2011 15:19:36
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I called CedarCide, and they insist that it's hydrated silica, even when confronted with the fact that hydrated silica is a powder not a liquid.

Here's a link to the MSDS that says it's silicone oil: http://www.chemcas.com/msds_archive/part2/cas/gj_msds/lib_store_yahoo_net---BestYetMSDS.asp
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Mar 18 2011 17:10:15
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There's also a more disturbing possibility: maybe silicic acid and cedar oil are really what it's made from -- but as reagents to synthesize some new chemical, rather than as ingredients in a mixture. Some silanes are toxic, e.g. trimethoxysilane. If it's killing the bugs with an undisclosed chemical, we wouldn't have the information we need in order to evaluate the health risks.

I was much happier when I had decided the silicone one must be correct.
juanfiguroa

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 6 2011 10:11:08
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This conversation had me convinced to purchase the product, until this: A rating by the Better Business Bureau of "F."

http://www.bbb.org/houston/business-reviews/chemicals/cedarcide-in-spring-tx-13002398/

OK, that and the $124.95 price tag:

.cedarcidestore.com/catalog/item/3580888/5108340.htm

So, no. I might take a crap shoot at 25 bucks, but a hundred and twenty five? I'd be better off buying lottery tickets so I could hire people to come hit the bugs with shoes.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 6 2011 12:12:23
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Hi Juan,

That's not good!

I am concerned that they are still recommending this product be used with a fogger on the same page you link to. Experts tell us fogging is not a good solution where bed bugs are concerned.
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 14:47:03
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I want to start off by being honest. I'M THE CEDARCIDE SALES MANAGER my name is Dustin Hennig I can be reach at 1-800-842-1464 or my email is dustin@cedarcide.com if you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me. I would first like to put to rest the Silane/Hydrated Silica questions or comments. There are thousands of different types of Silane fluids ( Hydrated Silica ) this particular one is just melted quartz rock ( just imagine an actual quartz rock and all we do is use an intense heat to melt it that is also why the product cost's so much because of the high cost of energy now a days that makes it expensive to manufacture this product ) I have one of these rock's on my desk in front of me right now. This particular fluid was developed by Estee Lauder and DowCorning they both spent 50 million dollars a piece developing the fluid for a 100 million dollars total invested in the Silane fluid just to develop and research it. We only use this because it weighs 1/800 the weight of water so it is able to carry the Cedar Oil through the exo-skeleton of the insect much faster than a water based product ( most chemicals out there on the market are diluted with water because they where developed as nerve agents in WWII and undiluted forms would be deadly to humans more than they are already ). Next to address the comment's about it drying like a "dust" or a "powder" no it does not dry and turn into either of those it actually will make you're floors kind of oily and slippery like you just mopped it for about 4 hours but the Silane fluid dry's faster than water so after a few hours other than the smell you will not be able to tell that anything was sprayed.

To address why we are not in Big Box Stores let me give you an example and any reputable manufacturer's out there will tell you the same thing and will not sell to Wal-Mart or any other big box stores. Example : Say we ship out 100k worth of inventory and we personally inspect every pallet loaded on the truck to make sure nothing is damaged and sign off on it, then when it arrives to it's destination ( nothing is damaged in transport about 95% of the time ) well Wal-Mart will then deduct 20%, 15% or whatever they feel they want to deduct from what they owe you and they just cut a check for what they feel is owed not the actual invoice amount most of the time resulting in a loss to our company meaning we are paying Wal-Mart at that point to sell our product's. Wal-Mart right now owes us over a million dollars will we ever see a penny of that no, Why don't we sue to get the lost funds? It would cost more then that to sue Wal-Mart and it would take many many years of litigation before it even went to Court so there is no use we just cut our losses and sell direct to the Public. Also if we sold it in big box stores the prices would be ridiculous because of the mark up this way buying direct from us it is much cheaper plus we have product knowledge and can tell you how to use it correctly where as a Wal-Mart employee's MAYBE JUST MAYBE know where it is located in the store and that is about the extent of the product knowledge and no they do not give us the option to train their employee's on the product either.

As for fogging for bed bug's the reason we suggest this instead of a spray is because bed bugs will travel up to a 150 feet a night to eat ( their food is you're blood ). The reason I'm telling you this is because sometimes they go in the attic and go down through the walls via you're electrical supply or down the outside of a pipe and the only way to get the product down in the insulation at that point is to fog and yes if you did not do a good job fogging or only treated part of the structure then yes I would guess then the bed bugs would move instead of die unless you made direst contact then it would die in about 34 seconds. This is why it is very important not to be lazy and treat everything start in the attic and work you're way down be sure to take the face plate cover's off of the wall as well as light switch covers and aim the fogger in there to kill any that may be present in the wall. Using a spray application is actually what would spread them from one area to another not the fog because with the spray it is unable to penetrate through that insulation due to the larger molocule being sprayed also a Gallon in a compression sprayer only cover's a 1,000 sq. ft. when using a fogger it extends the life of that gallon allowing it to go up to 2,000 sq. ft. per gallon. While using the fogger you will also notice it get's so thick in the room that you will not be able to see the hand infront of you're face.

THE REASON IT WORKS : The reason this product is effective is because the Cedar Oil aroma is the equivalent of ammonia to the insect, to you and I it smells like cedar but to the insect that aroma is deadly. Anyone's grandmother ever have a cedar chest or closet while growing up to keep the moths out? Well this is basically the same thing except we figured out how to get the cedar oil out of the wood and mix it without it separating which is what no one else in the world has ever figured out how to do. The egg's have to breath as well so when the cedar oil coats the egg it kills it as well, BEST YET DOES KILL THE EGG'S I HAVE THE TESTING RESULTS TO PROVE IT.

TESTING RESULTS: I have noticed a lot of people say things about our test either they could'nt find any done or at the time we where being tested by the DOD and was unable to release the info. Well if that is what you're reading I would like to inform you I have several test results I can email to anyone that requests it as with any of our customers or future customers. I HAVE TESTING RESULTS AND VIDEO FROM ICR LAB IN MARYLAND ( for those of you that don't do this for a living that is Insect Control Research of Maryland ) they are one of the most reputable insect control testing facilities in the Country, WE ALSO HAVE TEST RESULTS FROM RUTGER'S UNIVERSITY again I would be more than happy and willingly send this information to anyone who request's it or you can even go to the website and find it there you're self. Although I do believe for some of the tests they must be emailed because of the file size and I would gladly do that for anyone that requests it.

[Admin: Repetition of email link and phone number deleted. See top of message.] AGAIN I'AM THE CEDARCIDE SALES MANAGER IM NOT TRYING TO FOOL ANYONE JUST ANSWER YOURE QUESTIONS AND ADDRESS THE NONBELIEVERS OUT THERE.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 15:12:59
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dustinhennig - 21 minutes ago »

As for fogging for bed bug's the reason we suggest this instead of a spray is because bed bugs will travel up to a 150 feet a night to eat ( their food is you're blood ). The reason I'm telling you this is because sometimes they go in the attic and go down through the walls via you're electrical supply or down the outside of a pipe and the only way to get the product down in the insulation at that point is to fog and yes if you did not do a good job fogging or only treated part of the structure then yes I would guess then the bed bugs would move instead of die unless you made direst contact then it would die in about 34 seconds. This is why it is very important not to be lazy and treat everything start in the attic and work you're way down be sure to take the face plate cover's off of the wall as well as light switch covers and aim the fogger in there to kill any that may be present in the wall. Using a spray application is actually what would spread them from one area to another not the fog because with the spray it is unable to penetrate through that insulation due to the larger molocule being sprayed also a Gallon in a compression sprayer only cover's a 1,000 sq. ft. when using a fogger it extends the life of that gallon allowing it to go up to 2,000 sq. ft. per gallon. While using the fogger you will also notice it get's so thick in the room that you will not be able to see the hand infront of you're face.

Hi Dustin,

I appreciate your comments and your attempts to answer some of the questions people have about this product.

My concern about fogging with this product is that entomologists tell us that fogging a space with ANY product is not a good idea because it will not reach all the bed bugs and will likely move some or many of them deeper into the structure, making them harder to kill.

I have to defer to their wisdom on this.

Jeff White refers to the Rutgers tests above (you should really read the rest of this thread, if you haven't yet), but from what I gather, the tests did not include the fogging application your company promotes.

If your company wants to promote fogging as a methodology for killing bed bugs with CedarCide, then I think you need to provide testing data from an independent entomologist which shows that this methodology works with this product and that it does not leave any bed bugs behind.

Once such data is provided, then we will know this is an exception to the "fogging is not a good solution for bed bugs" rule.
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 18:00:14
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Nobugsonme ,

I do see the hesitation in what you hear about fogging and that is because any chemical out there does not have that instant kill effect nor does just the aroma of other product's kill the insect. Although I do agree with you we do need to get the testing going on fogging inside of structures as far as paying a university, or some other independent agency that does this. When we suggest to fog it is coming from my own personal experience and seeing the two different results to pay for this sort of testing by an independent party is very, very expensive, but it is something we are working on none the less we will get that testing done and published for the public.

Fogging does not work if you just fog one room and not the rest of the home THEY ARE IN THE WALLS that is why we say fog the entire house from top to bottom. Again Nobugsonme you are correct if you do not make direct contact with the insect they wont die but since the aroma acts like ammonia eventually up to a month later it can kill them I do have tests for that please allow me to explain the test and they do this with all insect control products. The scientist sprayed a piece of card board and let it dry with the Best Yet solution after allowing it to dry they set it on one side of a 20 ft. fish tank and then dropped the bed bug's in the middle leaving the top off, with in 24 hours the bed bugs had moved to the opposite side of the fish tank and 50% of them had died without ever being in contact with the product over the next 30 days only another 30% had died so a total of 80% died with in thirty days that did not come in contact with the card board or the product. I have the testing results for that as well but I know its not posted to the website. So that is the main reason why ours is the exception to the rule no other products have an aroma that kills them, also when we talked to ICR labs about the test they informed us that no other product on the market ever tested killed a bed bug this fast normally they would take up to 48 hours or longer so what's wrong with our product I ask? Also ALL CEDARCIDE PRODUCTS ARE 100% SAFE TO PEOPLE AND PET'S why would anyone use a chemical that has proven to cause death or cancer. I bet no one here knows this because just last night I had someone knock on my door trying to sell me a pyrethroid pest control treatment and he did not even know this, but most of the chemicals including pyrethroid's will be banned December 31st 2011 BY .........................that's right the end of this year

Yes I read most of the posts and even most if not all of Jeff Whites I pretty much ended about 3 or 4 posts from the end spent most of the day reading them and re-reading. Trying to make sure I read what I thought I did I find it ammusing a lot of people have never even tried it but still say it does not work or whatever the comment may be but still have not even tried a spritzer. If anyone still doubts our claims call me I will send you a few free spritzers if you pay the flat rate postal charge we would go broke paying the post office all the time 1-800-842-1464 ask for me Dustin. Sorry Nobugsonme had to throw that out there to the people who have not tried it yet that might want to.

I just read Juanfiguroa reference to our Better Business Bureau rating, if you have ever dealt with the BBB you would know they are being sued because unless you pay to be a member you get an F rating there are absolutely horrible companies out there with horrible business practices that have an A rating including a few mechanic shops I have used. Because these companies PAY to be a member of the BBB. If the BBB really wanted to be a neutral party they would not require payment in order to get an A rating and settle the disputes. When customer's only purchase a qt. ( that only covers 250 sq. ft. ) and there home is a 1,000 sq. ft. and they call us claiming to of treated the entire home but still have insect's. Well to be honest thats only enough to see the product work and repell them for a few days other than that it's not going to do much for you. Everything in the home must be treated no matter where you think they are or are not hiding the eggs could have fallen off a shirt and be on the couch or whatever the case may be. We do not have any way of knowing where they are ( that being said I do hear promising results from K-9's seeking out bed bugs ). I did also read silvesro's posts and although I do appreciate him/her advicating on our side I do not know who it is I noticed someone say he might have a hidden agenda so I wanted everyone to know this is not one of our employees just a very satisfied customer I guess, Thank you silvesro. Also Nobugsonme I would like to thank you for a quick response and to any questions or comments in the future I look forward to answering and helping in any way possible I have delt with Bed Bugs myself on a hunting trip so I understand the frustration out there.

I strive for customer service so please feel free to contact me if I can help with any product information, testing, or questions.

Thank you,
Dustin Hennig
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Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon May 2 2011 21:16:34
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There are thousands of different types of Silane fluids ( Hydrated Silica ) this particular one is just melted quartz rock

Silane is not the same as hydrated silica, and neither of them is the same as melted quartz.
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 3 2011 8:32:03
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- How does molten quartz stay liquid in the bottle at room temp, then disappear on contact, but remain effective, without leaving a liquid or dust film?
- An egg coated in Cedarcide will die, but in real life can you coat all the eggs in your home?
- How is fogging/repellency effective in situation where people can't access the attic and behind the walls, the case in virtually every urban apartment?
BBJames

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 3 2011 8:54:45
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Tried it and it only works if the tech knows what he or she is doing. The problem is Cedarcide screamed silverbullet and tried to backdoor the market. Now they have tons of unqualified people running around and tring to sell this stuff, promising it will rid an infested room in 30 minutes. Product scores a 6.5 out of 10 in my book. Cedarcide and their misfits 3 out of 10. Must admit, as a natural product, not too bad. If it really is all natural??? LOL After reading the MSDS, I would'nt allow this stuff to reach hot temps. Can become a Fml GAS!!
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 3 2011 10:05:00
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Anyone of you may call me for a sample to see it is what we claim it is. Although claims that it get's rid of bed bug's in 30 minutes or in just one spray are not manufacturer claims but claims by someone else who may use our product. We do not claim to be a " Silver Bullet " but if used correctly and thoroughly it is a great non-toxic solution to the bed bug problem.

Cilecto,
You are correct it stays a liquid what I said was it does not turn into a powder or a dust film it does however stay as an oily residue for a few hours. To answer as to how someone is able to coat the whole egg in real life settings such as apartments, we let every customer or TECH know they if they are treating for bed bugs unless you treat the entire building it is impossible to get rid of them. We also advise in order to penetrate the walls to remove any face plate covers or wall switch covers to try and get behind the sheet rock as good as possible there sometimes is a need for a second treatment.

BBJames,
CedarCide does not employee "TECHS" we just manufacture the product anyone can purchase it off of our website so some people with today's economy are claiming to be professionals when in fact, some of them have no pest control license but most of our customers do have a pest control license though we do not have anyone that comes to you're home or place of business that is on CedarCides payroll so we have no control over what some people do with the product. As for it being flamable, take for example when the product is coming out of a can of hair spray can you can take a lighter and boom you have a blow torch this product is not like that if you tried the same exact test it would do a flash flame if you could imagine and then it goes right out. After the product is on the floor you can take a lighter to it and try to light it and nothing happens ( I have done this many times while training my employees to show them the difference ). Yes it is ALL NATURAL we are on the EPA's 25B exempt list for minimal risk control pesticides.

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious,
When Dr. Ben arrives I will post the science behind the silane fluid, hydrated silica, quartz rock so you will have a better understanding of why it is what we claim it is. I'm not a scientist so my answer would not clarify things for you.
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 3 2011 15:47:03
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dustinhennig - 4 days ago »
.............. THEY ARE IN THE WALLS.....................

Hi,

The only times I have found bedbugs driven into cracks and crevices such as walls is when they have been driven there through the use of foggers and / or aerosol based products that they are tolerant of.

In anything other than the heaviest or most miss treated cases this is simply not true and I am going to go as far as to say you should be ashamed of yourself for saying it even it I have quoted just that part.

Cimex species in the fabric of buildings often turn out to be another species other than bedbugs such as the closely related bat bug.

David

PS Its also against the AUP to post your email or phone number on the boards, its not pine fresh its spam.
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 3 2011 16:51:08
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Bed-buscouk,

Are you a professional exterminator? If you where you would know that bed bug's in apartments, or hotels travel from room to room or up a story or down through the walls via the electrical lines to get to their food. ( you can refer to my previouse post's where I have already made this statement) How else would they travel from room to room? Bed Bug's can travel up to 150 feet a night meaning the nest can be up to 75 feet away from where you sleep. I do not know what you mean by pine fresh its spam but I am not trying to spam anyone just answer question's to the people who have never even tried it and help them get a better understanding of how the product work's along with the correct explination of our claims. Some people do buy and re-sell the product and have hyped up claims there is nothing we can do to control that, we on the other hand do not we are very upfront and honest in our claims. Thank you for you're time I will answer any questions that anyone may have that being said I will not be replying to every post but I will reply to clarify things for the mis-guided and for the people who have never tried it and would like some clarification. That being said this will be my last post if you would like my contact info. to talk more, the information is posted above and my screen name is my real name so you may ask for me.
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 3 2011 22:25:15
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To answer as to how someone is able to coat the whole egg in real life settings such as apartments, we let every customer or TECH know they if they are treating for bed bugs unless you treat the entire building it is impossible to get rid of them.

I'd venture to guess that your typical BB customer is a scared apartment dweller, tight on time and money, who will likely not be able to treat his/her entire building, as you suggest here.

. I bet no one here knows this because just last night I had someone knock on my door trying to sell me a pyrethroid pest control treatment and he did not even know this, but most of the chemicals including pyrethroid's will be banned December 31st 2011 BY .........................that's right the end of this year

Thread here points to the claim that pyrethroids are going off market in the USA as unlikely. We have a Republican House and a President whose focus appears elsewhere.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 3 2011 22:41:54
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Yes it is ALL NATURAL we are on the EPA's 25B exempt list for minimal risk control pesticides.

From the EPA web page, it sounds as though 25B doesn't mean all natural, just minimal risk. Almost all the active ingredients allowed under 25B are natural, the exceptions being soap (SDS) and metallic zinc. But I'm pretty sure silanes and siloxanes aren't natural, even if some of them are safe to eat.

Bed-buscouk,

Are you a professional exterminator? If you where (sic) you would know ...

Heh. Try googling him. Or look up ISBN 978-0-9562617-0-0.

That being said this will be my last post ...

Hey, you said you would clarify about silanes after you talk to your science guy.
BBJames

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 3 2011 23:06:08
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Hey guy's,

Now I know this guy is a JOKE! Dr. Ben Oldag died last year in Dec.
http://houstonradiohistory.blogspot.com/2010/12/ben-oldag-rip.html

With all due respect to Dr.Ben Odlag,
So Dustin when is the doctor coming back again?? Look Dustin, you and Cedarcide have shown your true colors once again. YOU Wonder why nobody takes your products seriously:{ Like I said, stop back dooring us and maybe someone would listen.

You can't go wrong when you do the RIGHT Thing!!!
BBJames

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 3 2011 23:23:44
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Bed-buscouk (David),

I know exactly what your talking about and I admire your work my friend! I love how he said bed bugs travel 150 feet a night. LOL No wonder their taking over!LOL Funny thing is they can travel across the U.S. in one night too, through a piece of luggage. So he says this is how they spread. Wow!! Plus 75ft from the host??? Generally I don't have to look but 10ft max from the headboard area in a hotel to find BB's. Well he must be a great PCO?? (Person's Crazy Opionion)

Sorry to be so out spoken being a newbite, but wow are you kidding......
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 0:49:56
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BBJames - 1 hour ago »
Hey guy's,
Now I know this guy is a JOKE! Dr. Ben Oldag died last year in Dec.
http://houstonradiohistory.blogspot.com/2010/12/ben-oldag-rip.html
With all due respect to Dr.Ben Odlag,
So Dustin when is the doctor coming back again?? Look Dustin, you and Cedarcide have shown your true colors once again. YOU Wonder why nobody takes your products seriously!

Hmmmm.
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 6:13:59
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dustinhennig - 12 hours ago »
Bed-buscouk,
Are you a professional exterminator?

Yes I am, in fact in 2005 I became the first person in the world to only work on bedbugs and no other form of pest control having spent a few years doing 80% bedbug control and 20% regular pest control. My company has processed over 19,500 cases, I have written books on the subject (as others have kindly pointed out) I hold patents in the field and am extensively used by the media as a technical specialist. I am also one of the most prolific posters to this site and have been for many years.

dustinhennig - 12 hours ago »
If you where you would know that bed bug's in apartments, or hotels travel from room to room or up a story or down through the walls via the electrical lines to get to their food. ( you can refer to my previous post's where I have already made this statement) How else would they travel from room to room? Bed Bug's can travel up to 150 feet a night meaning the nest can be up to 75 feet away from where you sleep.

I will forgive you for not knowing that I was the first person in Europe to illustrate that bedbugs could move through modern buildings and for the record movement is not exclusively through conduits and pipework, it is often simply down and through communal areas such as corridors.

As you may have seen from another thread I spoke recently about bedbugs and their ability to move great distances for food. This only happens when there has been an incorrect treatment in the property or the infecting item has recently been brought into the area. Bedbugs by nature will occupy areas close to food where they can easily detect the presence of food. It is also true that they will not travel between units unless miss treated or when they get to a stage where the population is too vast (thousands and tens of thousands rather than 1 or 2 bugs).

The whole area fogging approach you mention will not stop bedbugs coming from adjoining units only dealing with those actual infestations will. This is the fundamental error in how you are trying to work and if you pick up nothing from this post other than that I hope it sinks in. So long as your approach is to attempt to treat in isolation you will ultimately fail in situation where there are local sources of the infestation either through adjoining properties or local contact sources.

dustinhennig - 12 hours ago »
I do not know what you mean by pine fresh its spam but I am not trying to spam anyone just answer question's to the people who have never even tried it and help them get a better understanding of how the product work's along with the correct explination of our claims. Some people do buy and re-sell the product and have hyped up claims there is nothing we can do to control that, we on the other hand do not we are very upfront and honest in our claims. Thank you for you're time I will answer any questions that anyone may have that being said I will not be replying to every post but I will reply to clarify things for the mis-guided and for the people who have never tried it and would like some clarification. That being said this will be my last post if you would like my contact info. to talk more, the information is posted above and my screen name is my real name so you may ask for me.

I am sorry that you don't feel responsible for the claims of others that you have done business with, maybe that was a short fall in your business model as those wild claims are clearly now biting you on the backside more aggressively than bedbugs themselves. If you feel that they have ruined your commercial opportunity then all I can say is that the only way to reverse this would be to produce a clear independent trial from a respected entomologist that shows the product works.

As far as my personal use or investigation of your product it is not registered in the EU under the biocide directive and until it is I cant consider using it so my view is by nature independent as I cant have any commercial interest as its not available here.

I do hope that you stick around and actually answer the questions of others, if you actually believe your product works it would be a worthwhile use of your time.

Regards,

David
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 9:24:44
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Interesting guy.

Nobugsonme - 8 hours ago »

BBJames - 1 hour ago »
Hey guy's,
Now I know this guy is a JOKE! Dr. Ben Oldag died last year in Dec.
http://houstonradiohistory.blogspot.com/2010/12/ben-oldag-rip.html
With all due respect to Dr.Ben Odlag,
So Dustin when is the doctor coming back again?? Look Dustin, you and Cedarcide have shown your true colors once again. YOU Wonder why nobody takes your products seriously!

Hmmmm.
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 11:34:20
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Yes, Dr. Ben Oldag unfortunately passed last year he was a very good friend of mine. I should have clarified that we have more than one Dr. that works for CedarCide forgive me for not clarifying that. I did talk with the owner and in order for me to explain how Hydrated Silica and Silane fluid are in fact the same, this would actually give away proprietary information so I'm unable to disclose anything more than that other than to say it is in fact melted quartz rock. I have also noticed everyone above commenting has never even used a small amount so I find it very confusing that you all have something negative to say. As to the response about pyrethroids I'm here to tell you it's true it would literally take an act of congress to stop them from banning it and the ban should of taken place back in '01 if I'm not mistaken but BUSH signed a bill delaying it until dec. 31 of this year, feel free to do some research and look it up or wait 7 more month's. This will be my last response as I know it is impossible to satisfy everyone. If you need to talk to me further, feel free to contact me. Have a wonderful day.
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 12:24:52
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Hi dustinhennig,

I am disappointed that you chose not to reply to any of my comments, especially since I went to all the efforts to reply to your most partonising one.

I have not tested the product as I stated because it is not approved under the Biocide directive in the EU. However it is also safe to say I have not used DDT and yet I am fully qualified to evaluate any technical data produced as to its efficacy on killing bedbugs.

I had specifically said the only way for you to address your naysayers is to put up some trial data to illustrate product efficacy, this does not require the disclosure of your IP just that you can actually prove it works.

I would also suggest that if Bush passed the bill posting a link would save you a lot of face and may in fact go a long way to repairing the damage to your products reputation from all the outlandish and exaggerated claims we have all tolerated over the last few years.

A little confirming details of your good Dr would also not go a miss otherwise you run the risk of gaining the same reputation of a Dr I know in London who gave herself that title after her career stalled in the adult film industry (I could see potential parallels hence the mention).

Have a super jolly day and come back soon.

David
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 13:38:53
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Bed-bugscouck,

I forgot to respond to you as it will need to be a much longer response than the one's I gave the other's but you will recieve one, Although I know I said I would not post again ( I just know someone is going to say something about that but I fell it only right to provide a reply when being spoken to directly ). We do however have those test results posted to our web site as I have said in some of my previouse post's I can email them as well if you like. I'm sure it's going to take me a while to find the link that shows the ban coming up but I will post that in my response to you as well. It is a pleasure explaining things but you must understand using our poduct is much different than using traditional pesticide treatments thus meaning it needs to be used differently as well. Thank you and have a wonderful day. Oh and we are going through the process of trying to get it approved in Europe but as you may also know that takes many many years and a lot of money.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 14:12:47
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An anecdote to lighten things up:

When my landlord's exterminator used CedarCide on the apartment for the first time, the word "thuja" just jumped into my head. It's the genus name of some of the trees commonly known as cedars. A few years ago, I got a bunch of essential oil samples from different kinds of trees, just because it's fun to try to recognize different smells and then check the label to see if you were right. My son enjoyed the smells too, although it was more a game of ask for one and have me get it down. (Many essential oils are hazardous if exposed to the skin full-strength: try this at home, yes, but don't let a child get them out himself.) I hadn't smelled Thuja occidentalis in years, but bang, there it was. Scents really trigger memories like nothing else.

Speaking of actual names, it would be more informative if the tests comparing it with "generic cedar oil" told what species. Sharing a common name doesn't mean the trees have the same active compounds in their essential oils.
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 14:20:09
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> you run the risk of gaining the same reputation of a Dr I know in London who gave herself that title after her career stalled in the adult film industry

What did she expect trying to make it in pr0n in London?
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 14:23:17
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You are so right superfragilisticexpialidocious..... lol say that ten times fast, anyways the Cedar we use is actually the Texas Red Juniper ( that's not the scientific 20 letter name for it obviously ) but some cedar's are deadly not only to pet's but also to humans so we are very careful in what we use in our formulations. I can tell you this though a gallon of raw Cedar Oil is black in color and smells absolutely horrid, we extract some of those components and that is when you get our cedar oil wich has kind of a gold yellow tint to it. I hope that answered you're question about the type of cedar we use.
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 14:52:38
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Hi dustinhennig,

I have looked at the site and compared it with the comments above at the start of this thread which are by the people who funded the research at Rutgers (its not that uncommon a relationship) and have to say they all fall short of what I would call confirming data from any party.

A research communication is simply not the same as a well documented trial showing methods, results and conclusions. I appreciate that you may have been asked for something to test and all the data was not shared with you it does seem to happen with some labs. Its why academics should always keep themselves focused on research rather than the more commercial aspects of an industry.

I am therefore doing to suggest that you either engage the services of a respected academic who will actually conduct and document a study or engage in the services of a bonifid contract research company to do the work for you.

If you are to put a package together for the Biocide directive (and yes I do know how much that costs and how long it takes) then you will need it anyway.

Until such time I would have to say that you can have all the glowing testimonials and communications in the world but this thread just gives some very mixed messages to both professionals and consumers.

For the record I know exactly what you mean about doing things in a different way. I specialise in designing systems that mean you don't need to treat a room with any products EPA exempt or otherwise which there seems to be a significant resistance to in many quarters but I have clients and independent studies that show it is feasible.

I did uncover some research from the late 1990's that showed some developing countries using oil based products for contact bedbug control but not in the fashion you describe using your products in and not in a fashion which would be acceptable for use in Western homes.

I would be interested to see the data on a 7 - 14 - 21 day residual test but also a taxis chamber trial to see if bedbugs have any avoidance as they do with some products. The simplest way is to treat half the test surface only. But I would expect to see a full PDA trial report signed off with a full method. Some of the data I have seen presented has fallen far short of what I am used to seeing from previous work in molecular biology and genetics.

David
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 15:03:22
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Hmm, that might be another common name for Thuja plicata instead of occidentalis. The genus name is what popped into my head, not the specific epithet.
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 15:32:49
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Bed-bugscouk,

We did have a private research lab conduct tests they are called ICR Insect Control Research group, although I must say we do need more testing to come up with conclusive proof but we are not a gigantic company so as you very well know getting the money together to pay for those tests to provide the proof it will take quit some time but it will eventually be done. As for the 7- 14 -21 day test that has been done please refer to a few posts up when I mention the fish tank test. Although we do need a real life setting test such as an apartment or condo setting. (The scientist sprayed a piece of card board and let it dry with the Best Yet solution after allowing it to dry they set it on one side of a 20 ft. fish tank and then dropped the bed bug's in the middle leaving the top off, with in 24 hours the bed bugs had moved to the opposite side of the fish tank and 50% of them had died without ever being in contact with the product over the next 30 days only another 30% had died so a total of 80% died with in thirty days that did not come in contact with the card board or the product ) I just copied and pasted that as I'm horrible with computers I dont know how to do those quote's . As with any new product I know it will take time for the scientific community and everyone else to come around especially since everyone is used to Chemicals but this is a safe and natural effective alternative. Bed-bugscouck I encourage you to call me I know you can not use the product commercially in Europe but you can use it for personal use and test it for you're self because from what I can tell you have never used it because it has no commercial value for you at this moment due to not being approved yet in Europe but you can still try it for personal applications for free of course to have a better understanding of how it works. IM NOT TRYING TO BE A SPAMMER, SOLICITOR OR SELL YOU SOMETHING BUT I BELIEVE IT IS ONLY FAIR TO OFFER SINCE YOU SEEM TO BE VERY KNOWLEDGABLE IN THIS FIELD
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 15:43:26
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dustinhennig - 1 day ago »

When Dr. Ben arrives I will post the science behind the silane fluid, hydrated silica, quartz rock so you will have a better understanding of why it is what we claim it is. I'm not a scientist so my answer would not clarify things for you.

Since no one else has asked, who is this Dr. Ben you refer to?

By the way, you may not be aware of this but writing in all caps is considered YELLING on the internet.
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 16:08:44
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Nobugsonme,

I did not know it is yelling not much of an internet person I just did it so anyone could see that a little better and letting them know I was seriouse and stand behind what I say. Dr. Ben Oldag along with David Glassel invinted " Best Yet " along with all of the other CedarCide Product's as well. I know he held several degree's before passing away last year he was a radio garden show host ( I know that's is not a degree ). He had a degree in horticulture and a few other's that I honestly do not know what they where if you would like the whole list I could ask Dave Glassel and get it for you.
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 16:37:41
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dustinhennig - 27 minutes ago »
Nobugsonme,
I did not know it is yelling not much of an internet person I just did it so anyone could see that a little better and letting them know I was seriouse and stand behind what I say. Dr. Ben Oldag along with David Glassel invinted " Best Yet " along with all of the other CedarCide Product's as well. I know he held several degree's before passing away last year he was a radio garden show host ( I know that's is not a degree ). He had a degree in horticulture and a few other's that I honestly do not know what they where if you would like the whole list I could ask Dave Glassel and get it for you.

I guess my point is that you referred to providing some information "when Dr. Ben arrives."

When another poster pointed out this was sadly unlikely, due to his passing, you said that you have lots of doctors. I wondered if you had been referring to another Dr. Ben at the company, or if you were unaware that he had passed away.

Don't worry about the yelling; everyone is new to the internet at some point. However, I did want you to be aware of the conventions.
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 17:23:43
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I was refering to a different Dr. Ben although if you email us for example at askben@cedarcide [Admin note: you know the rest] it is the pen name for the science dept. and other scientist now answer those emails, as Dr. Ben Oldag used to be the only one to answer those emails but sadly he no longer can due to passing away. He was a very hands on owner and he will be greatly missed I was personally trained by him although I'm no scientist myself but I have been in the pest control Industry going on 18 years now.
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 4 2011 20:49:32
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The thing is, an actual scientist probably wouldn't have told you that silanes are the same thing as molten quartz is the same thing as hydrated silica.
KB

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 6 2011 11:22:25
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I've taken the time to register and post here to share my experiences.
My family was being chewed up by those miserable critters.
I was horrified and disgusted to find them hiding in my mattress and baby's crib.
"Obligatory disclaimer": For many people, a professional exterminator would be the best bet.

For several reasons, I decided to try a "do it yourself approach" first.
My reasons included: embarrassment (was living in an apartment at the time) and concerns about the cost, effectiveness, and toxicity of a professional treatment.

Summary: Using "do it yourself" methods, I was to control (and I believe eliminate) my infestation.
I ended up throwing out a sofa in the living room that seemed to be harboring the bugs.
While the bedrooms remained free of bugs, a bug seemed to appear on or around this sofa every once in a while.
Yes, there are some fakers and spammers in these forums, but what's the point of reading forums if you're not going to believe anything anyone says?
If I see a common item in several unrelated threads\forums, I begin to give it some merit.
After much research on the Internet, the top natural and effective deterrents to bed bugs I could find were diatomaceous earth, petroleum jelly and Cedarcide ("Best Yet"). Cedarcide has a strong smell of fresh cedar wood, so spray it in the morning\early afternoon so your place can be somewhat aired out by bedtime.
Spraying the Cedarcide directly on the bed bugs kills them, as I have experimented myself.

This is what worked for me, step-by-step:
1) Clean up\Vacuum
Take as much as possible out of the room. Vacuum every inch of the room thoroughly.
Important: move furniture and the bed so you can clean under them.
This is the first step in removing the pests and their eggs.
When done, Wrap the vacuum bag used in a plastic bag and throw it out
If you have wood floors, replace vacuuming with mopping (with Pine-Sol, Murphy's Oil soap, or similar cleaner).
You should still vacuum the corners and crevices to get stuff your broom and mop may miss.

Recommended:
Shampoo carpet and/or use a steamer on the carpet, especially in the corners and crevices of the floor.
Use the steamer in the corners\crevices for rooms with wood floors.

2) Spray the room
Spray Cedarcide on the floor of the room. Focus on the corners\crevices, and the areas under furniture and the bed.
Don't forget the closet.
Wait for the smell to dissipate.
Cedarcide is not considered toxic for humans, but wear a face mask and eye protection anyway.

Recommended: Sprinkle Diatomaceous Earth (DE) (food grade preferred) in the corners\crevices of the room and around the feet of the bed. Some people eat DE and feed it to their livestock, so it can't be too bad.
DE is not considered toxic for humans, but wear a face mask and eye protection anyway.
Avoid breathing in the dust.

3) Clean, Spray, and cover the mattress and box spring
Inspect and vacuum mattress and box spring thoroughly.
Spray mattress and box spring with Cedarcide. If possible wait a few hours for smell to dissipate.
Cover box mattress and box spring with mattress covers (you can buy these from Target, Wal-Mart, or 99 cent stores. Use 2 if you buy a cheap one in case it tears.

Recommended: Use a steamer all over the mattress and box spring, especially around the edges.
(You can buy a steamer for less than $100 and use it later for a non-toxic alternative for sterilizing and cleaning)

4) Wash clothes
Sheets, blankets and clothing need to be washed in as hot water as they can take, and dried on "high" for at least 20 minutes (if they can take it). Heat kills bed bugs and their eggs.
Inspect and clean any areas you store clothes, using steam if possible.

5) Keep bed away from the wall if possible. (The reason for this should be obvious)

6) Put Petroleum jelly around the feet of the bed. This will help to trap bed bugs that are trying to crawl up from the floor (if any escaped the vacuuming, steaming, and spraying, or crawl in from other areas)

7) Inspect bed pillows. Use a (plastic) pillow case cover is addition to your regular pillowcase cover.
Pillow cases should be treated as step 4 above.

Maintenance
1) Vacuum\Sweep\Mop weekly.

2) Spray cedarcide around bed and on floor (focusing on corners\crevices) every 10 - 14 days.

Other:

- I found them hiding in some decorative pillows I had on the bed. These were cleaned and left off the bed for duration of the treatment. (It's been about 6 months, and I've not returned those pillows to the bed out of fear)
- If your living room furniture can take it, spray them too with Cedarcide too, in addition to vacuuming, shampooing and steaming.

Good luck!
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 6 2011 13:13:12
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KB,

Please do not report your posts in multiple threads. The duplicate you posted to another discussion on CedarCide was deleted.

Note to people who are considering following KB's methods: be aware that it is not unusual for people to come on the forums and portray themselves as happy customers for the purpose of promoting a product, and this may be the case here.
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 6 2011 16:47:44
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Nobugsoneme,

I know that some companies do that to " hype " there product's by possing as fake customers Im not sure if he was trying to promote CedarCide or some other product but I can assure you it definetly was not an employee of our's because the recommendations we give for treatment are far different than that. Although I'm not trying to say that his/her method of treatment is wrong or ineffective because it very well maybe effective. I have never tried that particualr approach sou I can not comment one way or another.
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 6 2011 17:12:50
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@Dustin. Are you sure she doesn't work in shipping and is posting without your knowledge? Yeah, that's the ticket.

@KB, about your approach. It sounds like you're doing "integrated pest management" and for DIY, you're on the right track.

A few points, while I'm not an expert, but based on what others have written here and from best practices, like this guide on our Resources page.

You did a lot of things, including use of Cedarcide. As far as I can see, it's a good contact killer, as are many household detergents. If you like it and the price is right, great.

Our steamer FAQ and experts like Jeff White's BedBugCentral.com recommend bigger, hotter steamers than the ones that you get for under $200.

Smart use of breathing protection when laying down DE. Others here have noted that vacuuming DE can also kick up dust you should protect yourself against. It can also supposedly jam up your vacuum's mechanism, so be willing to sacrifice it. There's really no need to vacuum up properly-laid DE, anyway. If you're using the vac to suck up bugs, there's a neat trick in the guide I posted a link to (above) using a sock to detect and trap what you pick up.

So, how bad was your infestation? What (other than bites) were your bed bug infestation signs? How many repeat treatments did you need? And how long since are you bug-free?

And sorry, you lost your sofa. We've heard that many PCOs refuse to treat them, but we've also had experts say that couches can be saved.
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 6 2011 18:15:59
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Hi KB,

The only thing I will add is that bedbugs on the sofa usually means a local source that gets reintroduced.

Its actually better to identify that source and avoid than to keep treating and treating.

Good luck finding it.

David
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 6 2011 19:03:24
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LOL No one in our Company would suggest DE and our shipping dept. does not even get on the computer other than to retrieve orders I honestly have no clue who it is. I have not lied to ya'll yet I was and always have been upfront and honest form the begining. Going on a long trip so didnt have time to read the threads just read the part about it might be someone from shipping lol .
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 6 2011 19:05:20
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Of Course CedarCide suggest throwing nothing out but instead treating all of it as the product kill's the adults and the egg's so I donno who it is. Please enlighten us KB maybe a little about you're self I will be back Monday have a good weekend.
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 6 2011 20:11:31
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The world will be a better place when this thread is closed.
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 6 2011 20:23:46
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Nah, then we'd need to start fresh. Otoh, as "there's no such thing as bad publicity, CC's been getting an essentially free ad on the forum.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat May 7 2011 2:05:05
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In my experience, closing a thread like this means that, as Ci said, we start over from scratch.

I don't necessarily see this thread as an advertisement for CedarCide. It only works as such if you ignore the posts by bed bug experts and long-time site users.

dustin, I am not interested in challenging the veracity of KB's report. I was not trying to challenge an individual poster, but I was speaking more generally. The same comments apply to other posters in this thread who have appeared only to discuss CedarCide, albeit from a "customer's" point of view.

At the end of the day I am much more comfortable with KB's approach than with you and others who are promoting fogging with this product, when we are told that fogging (period) is not a good methodology for treating bed bugs.

I reiterate that I will need to see testing data on that methodology proving it is not ineffective and does not make problems worse by moving bed bugs in deeper, before I change my mind. I'd advise anyone reading this not to fog with any product until they have more information of that sort from an independent entomologist.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat May 7 2011 7:48:07
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And if that advice reaches not only "anyone" but "anyone's" landlord's exterminator, then we'll really be making progress.
KB

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon May 9 2011 23:32:52
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To answer some questions:
My approach was admittedly not very scientific. I just wanted the biting to stop immediately (with as little cost as possible), and it pretty much did. Maybe it was the mattress covers that did the trick, maybe it was the petroleum jelly around the feet of the bed, or the DE or the cedarcide. I'll never really know since I tried them all at once. This was over a year ago, but I don't think we were bitten after that first week when I set everything up as in my previous post.

The bedrooms were carpeted, so I didn't vacuum the DE up weekly. (It was sprinkled under and around bedroom furniture, under the bed and crib and around the feet of the bed and crib).
I gradually reduced where I placed the DE until it was just at the area where the bed or crib was near the wall. Eventually I was just spraying the cedarcide. (DE looks pretty messy sprinkled on your carpet, so I also vacuumed it up when expecting guests). I think I vacuumed up the DE about every 10 days, when I reapplied the cedarcide. So it was vacuum, spray cedarcide, let it dry out, and sprinkle some DE.

We were bedbug free (in the bedrooms at least) for over 6 months, then we moved somewhere else. It was at this time that we threw out the old sofa since we continued to see a bed bug on it from time to time. It was time for that old sofa to go anyway, so I don’t miss it. Six months in the new place, and no signs of bedbugs.
I suspect that the "source" of the bugs may have been deep in the crevices and base inside the old cloth sofa since there was no way to reach in there without taking the sofa apart. Putting a cover on the sofa seemed to help, however, it’s like it helped keep them trapped inside.

I actually stumbled across this forum accidentally because someone I know just discovered they have bedbugs (I don't think they got them from me, it's about 6 months since I've seen one). I forgot where I had purchased the cedarcide, and this page came up on a google search.

It's hard to say how bad my infestation was – we were in a 2 bedroom apartment at the time, now we’re in a 2 story house. I found them in the bed, crib, and I think maybe on the floor of a bedroom once or twice (and of course on that sofa!).

How long did the treatment last?
My "shock and awe" approach in the bedrooms pretty much stopped the biting within a week.
(I didn't inspect the decorative pillows carefully enough at first)
I spoke about the living room sofa earlier (small apartment, we only had one sofa).
I went through about a bottle and a half of cedarcide, spraying an average of every 10 days.

I still have a bunch of DE, maybe I’ll use it for gardening or something.

Hope this information helps someone!
KB

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 10 2011 0:41:01
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Someone might be wondering "How could bedbugs go undetected in your bed and baby's crib? Don't you change your sheets regularly?"
Yes I do change them regularly, but they were hiding in places I don't change every time I wash.

In the case of the bed, they were actually hiding under the matress "liner" - this is something I bought with the mattress that only covers the top and sides of the mattress.
A mattress cover seals the mattress up completely, top and bottom.

In the case of the crib, they were hiding in the "bumper" that goes above the mattress, around the wood slats of the crib. This was a particularly frilly and folded cloth bumper which made noticing them difficult unless you were actually looking for them. I was so disgusted and horrified finding them there I just put the thing in two plastic bugs and threw it out.

I definitely started checking and washing those items more regularly as a result of that experience!
joflo53

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 17 2011 18:21:22
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Mr. Hennig would be a lot more believable if he learned to use proper grammar. All those unnecessary and misplaced apostrophes just prove his ignorance.
The product may be useful but it hasn't been proven and until it does, I won't be using it.
Mr. Hennig, please post a link to a proper study.
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 17 2011 20:50:54
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Jo, my differences with Dustin aside, this is a forum about bed bugs, not an English class. People from around the world, with all sorts of backgrounds and abilities, participate here. They ought not feel intimidated if their English writing is less-than-perfect. Also, I don't see the correlation between writing skill and honesty.
DreDay17

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 17 2011 23:50:16
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I'm actually going to be using this product along with de. I've read different reports and even saw them on a news channel one time. It seems to me that this product is very effective when it makes contact with bugs and prevents them from going in certain areas. Though the same can be said about other sprays out there.

Therefore I plan to dust in cracks and crevices. While using the spray on the beds, furnitures, etc. Then close up and holes and gaps. Wait a week and retreat.

I plan to be very thorough and I am throwing out old furniture(treating first) and stuff. I plan to treat for atleast three months and kinda go on a wait and see until month six. Once that hits and I have not seen anything I will retreat one a month. After 18 months I will reduce treatment to every 3 months.

Once I begin the treatment I will let you guys know my results on it and if it was effective. It's gonna be a long process
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri May 20 2011 16:27:43
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joflo53,

I have never been good at grammar my apologies, I do not see how that has anything to do with my honesty? I could of come on here used a fake name and lied trying to boast about the product and fabricated some story but instead I came on here with my real name said who I work for and what I do along with giving out my personal information, and I indeed know that it is not necessarily a wise thing to do over the internet but as I stated I'm being honest. I'm not here trying to sell my "Product" just answer some of the questions and I noticed some people making statements about our claims that where false and I felt it only right that I try and clarify those thing's. Some of the claims I was reading where absolutely ridicules and we have never made such claims others are true but it is all written on our website including our testing that has been done by independent labs. I can not seem to find some of the test result's that are from like ICR labs and Rutgers's but if you contact me on my private email at [Admin note: email deleted -- scroll up to user's initial post above if you want it] I would be more than happy to forward them to anyone who request's them. Although there are other test results from other companies posted on the site as well. No there is no " Independent Fogging Study" that has been completed but those test's will be published as soon as we receive them. I will be happy to answer any question's on this forum or clarify thing's as from the topic it seems to be about bed bug's and the use of CedarCide if I do understand it correctly but I'm not trying to "debate" with people or "argue" I'm a person just like everyone here and I have had my own issues with them at one point although it was minor because I knew what to do but the end result is we just want these nasty creautures gone!!! Thank you and everyone have a wonderful day.

Dustin Hennig
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat May 21 2011 3:14:29
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I am not an entomologist and can't test the product.

However, I do know a bit about the internets, and I just conducted an interesting informal study of my own.

(Note: by "informal" I mean I counted and characterized these contributions fairly quickly; there may be errors or omissions in my count or in how poster's opinions are described. Corrections are welcomed, but my point here is to draw some general themes together rather than to challenge what any individual has said.)

My aim was initially to see if there was any pattern as to why the thread was being revived when it was revived. I did not easily see one. I did notice some other interesting things, which may be helpful to those who happen upon this thread and are trying to draw some conclusions based on various users' comments.

I looked at all of the posts above, and quickly counted:
- 10 who have only posted in this thread or this one and another thread about CedarCide.
- 21 who have also posted in threads which were not about CedarCide.
That almost 1/3 of the posters in this thread have ONLY posted in this thread or this thread and a second thread about CedarCide "Best Yet" seems unusual for forum threads. (This is a general impression, though admittedly, I have not been counting any other threads lately -- it's time consuming! Try it!)

Of the 10 forum users above who have only come to Bedbugger Forums to discuss CedarCide so far,

Three either have or may have a financial interest in promoting this product or type of product:
- dustinhennig: CedarCide sales manager;
- drknlvly6781: fan of fogging; her website advertises CedarOil (not sure which brand, the ad's link is dead);
- ramac10: claims to work in pest control (in profile), using fogging method and CedarCide.
Two are customers claiming success with the product:
- silvesro: happy customer; claims to be layperson treating roominghouse by spraying CedarCide (and once by fogging with same product);
- KB: happy customer (note: besides spraying CedarCide, user also employed other methods such as vacuuming, steam, and DE).
One is a customer who had not waited long enough to confidently claim success:
- hatethembuggers: happy customer (but only after using product for two days).
One is a customer who only claimed to have tried killing other pests with it:
- WontHarborPests: happy customer (used it only for cockroaches).
Three have not used the product:
- jemanderson: looking to try CedarCide;
- juanfiguroa: skeptical and concerned about price/company's BBB report;
- joflo53: skeptical and also critical of grammar.
Of the 21 people above who have posted on threads which are not about CedarCide (even if they did not do so before contributing to this thread), I would note that outside of Jeff White, who was reporting on the research study, regular forum users' perspectives about the product ranged from very skeptical to skeptical to neutral to hopeful with or without a "wait and see" attitude towards further study of the product, to one consumer (DreDay17) who plans to try it, and several who had tried it and had positive, negative, or neutral reports.

Of those regular forum users who've mentioned trying the product, this group includes one PCO who claimed it works (BBJames); one professional (Doug) who uses for mosquitos, but not to do bed bug treatment of a structure; one customer (BBGenocide) who said it did not repel bed bugs from his/her skin; and one tenant (Supercalif.) who says his landlord has had someone use CedarCide at least once in his home -- but I don't think we heard yet if this was fogging or spraying, and I don't think we have heard yet if it seems to have worked or not.

There was a general call among experienced forum users for more independent research to be done by entomologists and/or released relating to
- whether the product repels bed bugs, (and whether this is helpful or problematic),
- whether the residual effects work in the field (as opposed to in a lab situation), and
- whether the fogging method works or is problematic as many fear.
Again, I apologize for any errors or misrepresentations in this analysis.

I am considering closing this thread (at least until additional independent research data is available) because:
1. It seems to attract an unusual amount of participation from people who do not otherwise participate in these forums. That sort of activity can suggest that in some cases people may be rallying for a cause rather than simply happening upon the thread.
2. Without further independent research data being released at this time, we may not have a whole lot more to say about this product. An active thread can function, as Ci suggested, as a form of ad, and I am not sure we want to direct more attention on this product before we know more about its effects and the efficacy of the methods the manufacturer promotes (such as fogging).
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat May 21 2011 3:50:49
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ps -- dustinhennig, please stop posting your email and phone number. I am tired of deleting it. If anyone wants this information, they can scroll up to your first post in this thread.
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat May 21 2011 11:41:25
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Hi,

I have to say that having read through all this again, having spent about an hour on the phone with Dustin one evening and reviewed all the current data I would suggest the following.

Move thread into the stickies with a suitable disclaimer at the top that advises people to read it all, make informed decisions and like many of the rest of us wait for independant data from a trusted and trustworthy source.

To date there is NO CREDIBLE REVIEW OR DATA on this product.

Dustin claimed to me on the phone that a new academic study was requested by Rutgers but I personally would prefer to see data from a lab less involved with bedbug products and actually focusing on research and field efficacy.

Until such time I will take the balanced view that there are no long term forum supporters recommending this product and that some of those who have reponded positively clear have vested interests and as such may be biased.

Closing the thread would simply encourage a fresh one without the benefit of all this input.

The product is not available in the EU and has not been cleared under the Biocide directive so until it has I can have no financial interest and it MUST not be used here until it is approved.

I hope that explains my position on this.

David
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun May 22 2011 0:07:19
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Wow, interesting research, NoBugs.

Recapping my thoughts about the product:
- It's pretty easy to tell of something works as a contact killer. CC claims that it kills on contact and I am prone to believing that it works that way, either because of one or more of the ingredients we already know about, or ones which have been hidden from us, in error or other wise. As I've said before, there are lots of contact killers. Pick the one that's agreeable to you and your surface, and which you can conveniently buy at a price you're happy with. If CC fits the bill, amen.
- I have a hunch that CC does offer residual action, thanks to the silica ingredient, whatever form it takes.
- I (not an expert) am concerned about our relative lack of understanding of how any repellency properties of the product can affect a BB situation. I'm also concerned about the ramifications of fogging against BB, as well as of fogging a silica product, both on respiratory systems, as well as sensitive electro-mechanical things, be it a dvd player, a disk drive or your microwave.

About the seller:
- CC promotes variants of this product for various purposes. I suspect that it takes a lot of money and expertise to determine if a product used for the purpose of fighting BB is safe and effective, beyond contact kill. I'm not sure that they have the firepower to pull this off.
- I'm suspicious of sellers that paint a nightmare picture of the BB situation and insinuate themselves as the only savior. That does not mean they're wrong, it just rubs me the wrong way. I'm sure a lot of people do buy into this kind of approach.
- I don't like sellers whose reps keep changing their story. If your web site sells foggers and you have videos of people casually waving a fog machine around the house, don't claim that that's rogue sellers are promoting mis-use, but not you.
- All that said, some some industries are more polished at communication (say, any Fortune 500 company), but that does not necessarily make them ethical and honest.

About the Thread
- As noted above, I think this continues to provide valuable information about an evolving situation. If a Michael Potter or a Dini Miller were to post important positive results about CC (this time based on a full understanding of what's actually in it), this would be the place to announce it, and this will be the place for all the doubters to pay tribute. Meanwhile, it's a good place for prople to learn about the product, as well as how bedbuggers look at proposed solutions. As I noted above I think it should stay open.
- It's up to NoBugs to decide if she wants to give CC prominence on the site, either as an advertiser or as a constantly "bumped" topic. If she does not want to give prominence to CC, then I would not make the topic "sticky" (as it'll be on top all the time). Instead, I'd let it float in the forum as any other thread, but post a short summary at the top of this thread to alert the reader of what to expect in the thread.

Thanks.
dustinhennig

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon May 23 2011 10:53:45
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I have read each and every post and this this will be my last post. My last intention on coming on here and posting for the first time, honestly I believed it would be my one and only time. Although by default during answering of some questions and clarifying a few things I'm sure there was some promoting of the product in my posts but my intention was to answer questions. I will not post again out of respect unless someone asks me something directly as I do not want to sound like I'm advertising. I can promise you this though..... NoBugsonme, the people who listed that posted are not CedarCide employees the only one who works for CedarCide is me and like I said from the beginning I'm just trying being fully up front and honest ( sorry for re-posting my email I just know its a ways up now figured it would be easier wont happen again ) . Thank you everyone have a good bug free night!!
cilecto

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon May 23 2011 11:07:31
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One question. Who added the "oy vey…" tag?
buggyinsocal

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon May 23 2011 12:15:23
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I understand why David has suggested making the post into a sticky--and his point about closing the thread resulting (unintentionally) in the information cropping up in new ones is a good one.

But I'm also a little hesitant to see this one made into a sticky. I think the de facto result of something being made into a sticky is that people see the sticky-level posts as being authoritative, and I'm afraid that having a product name in those posts--especially for really stressed out, sleep deprived brand new bed bug sufferers may end up with the opposite effect of the reason for making it a sticky.

The most similar sticky there is the thread about K9 detection. That's a sticky about an issue that causes, shall we say, lively debate. However, the very reason for the sticky is that there isn't consensus in the field about K9 detection precisely because there isn't one overall accrediting body for detection dogs. In this case, we don't have competing variations of the same product; we have just the one product. To me, that's a key difference.

The part of me that always wants to find a compromise solution that will at least make no one individual totally unhappy thinks that maybe the solution is to have one sticky for any topic that we're waiting for more scientific info on. Thus, right now, it's Cedarcide. Someday in the future, there will likely be more issues like that--where there's a new product that doesn't yet have independent scientific testing. The idea would be that if someone started a new Cedarcide post, we could point them to the sticky that has a link to this Cedarcise thread.

That's probably needlessly complicated; I haven't had breakfast yet, and we're in crunch time at work, so I am not at my best thinking, but I wanted to reply before we got too far out from the conversation. (In other words, feel free to modify my suggestion if you want. I'm sure it has epic holes in it.)
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon May 23 2011 12:22:38
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Can we have a red sticky?

David
laagurtojr

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Posted 1 year ago
Tue May 31 2011 20:39:44
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Hi Everyone,

I'm a PCO in San Francisco that has been working on this issue since 2001. We do heat treatments, clean-up, have dogs, and only apply things that are Certified IPM, or reduced risk. I decided to test Cedarcide for myself and used it today in a Tenderloin apartment that was surrounded by vacancies. We treated the surrounding units with an insecticidal dust and have traps set-up to monitor. We treated the unit with an active infestation using the Cedarcide and ULV fogger.

From what I read the bugs should die in 60 seconds however a bug that I fogged and then watched inside the room that was saturated with the fog, for about 3 minutes, lived, and is still alive- now 5 hours later. It finally moved off the piece of paper that I had in the jar with it (and was also fogged) but it still looks healthy.

I will be using the Rutgers CO2 trap for monitoring the vacant room, so if anyone is still interested in this topic I can report back later. We are planning on doing the same for a few other, seriously infested units later this week. BTW, we just started working in this building, it's a new client, in a complex environment.

Best,

Luis Agurto Jr.
President
Pestec
laagurtojr

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Jun 1 2011 12:50:42
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Quick Update:

It's been about 20 hours since I fogged a vacant unit surrounded by vacant units with Cedarcide. I removed one bug that was in the room for about 3-4 minutes and have kept him inside a jar. The bug is still alive and looks healthy (he's not on his back and he's moving with stimulation).

Although my test isn't very scientific it's enough evidence for me NOT to repeat it again. I did not get the quick knockdown that I expected, or as you might get from a spray/contact application.

BTW, the room I treated and surrounding rooms are being renovated- stripped down, sealed, painted, re-carpeted, etc. This is a hundred year old building in need of this, and was our primary recommendation. We will be doing further treatment using heat and everything else in our tool kit.

I will follow-up one more time after I re-inspect the room tomorrow.

Best,

Luis Agurto Jr.
Pestec
cilecto

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Jun 1 2011 13:00:32
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Would it be reasonable to say that a certain product will kill on contact, but only in sufficient concentrations (ie, straight from the bottle), but not in fogging (subject to all the above warnings) concentrations (where you get slower action, typical of silicates)? And, while the surrounding units were dusted, isn't there risk of the bugs bring driven to the spaces between the units?
laagurtojr

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Jun 1 2011 13:50:57
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Cilecto, I'd agree with that. That's precisely what I think is happening here. We applied it at the labeled rate, the only difference is that the label recommends keeping the room closed up for two hours for best results and I removed the bug.

The units in question do not have wall voids per se, rather they are plaster and lathe, and the floors are concrete (which is why we explored another option to heat). Of course there are cracks and crevices under the baseboards, and there are utility chases in the corners. Those spaces were also dusted, will be heated, and later sealed up permanently as part of their long term management strategy.

If the product delivered a quick knockdown as a fog it might be the exception to the "no fogging rule." However since in this test (imperfect as it is) it did not, and it is admittedly repellent, I think the prevailing wisdom that fogging does not work holds up.

I'm with everyone else, let's see a formal study.

p.s. I applied it because two separate sources mentioned they were having good results with it and the initial post on this forum seemed to confirm it. Then again, if it's sounds too good to be true it usually is.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Jun 1 2011 15:12:50
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Thanks, Luis, for sharing your experiences of field testing this product with the fogging method.
trash-aint-treasure

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Dec 12 2011 4:44:16
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Could ccby be used in a similar manner to nuvan strips, such as spraying the items and sealing them in a bag for two weeks?
Nobugsonme

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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Dec 12 2011 22:11:31
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trash-aint-treasure - 17 hours ago »
Could ccby be used in a similar manner to nuvan strips, such as spraying the items and sealing them in a bag for two weeks?

I have absolutely no reason to think it would. DDVP is a toxic gas.

note also a recent study showed DDVP was not as effective as people previously thought.

You might be better off relying on heat treatment of items.
P Bello

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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Dec 13 2011 2:54:23
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That is not correct.

Once suitably exposed ddvp provides 100% control of all stages of bed bugs, even those bed bugs that are resistant to other chemistries. ddvp can be a useful tool but it is not magic. That is, as with any pesticide product, the toxicant must be delivered to the pest in order for it to work.

Trials set where the ddvp vapor must penetrate areas where confined subject bed bugs are located without suitable air flow and contingent upon passive movement may not produce efficacious results however, this is a delivery & exposure problem and not a toxicology issue.

When used properly, ddvp is capable of producing excellent results and I know this to be true for several reasons including that we do use it when remediating my client properties as well as cooperator trials with which I am associated with.

Additiionally, as with all pesticides ddvp is a toxicant. However, regarding applied pesticides, all results are dose related. Industry jargon includes a phrase "migs per kigs" which refers to the dosage in milligrams of toxicant per killograms of subject body weight. These numbers are generally presented as LD50, LC50, LD90 & LC90. This designation means the amiunt of milligrams necessary to kill 50% or 90% of the test poplulation. LD = lethal dose & LC = lethal concentration.

All this said, the body weight of insects is many, many, many times less than a mammal or a human. As such, the amunt of pesticide applied to kill bed bugs is not nearly what would be needed to harm an animal or a human. The dose is important and applying pesticide products in accordance with the label directions is necessary to mitigate the hazard risk.

We don't need to be scared of using pesticides when needed just because they are tocicants. They are tools to be used when needed and in a suitable manner.

ALL readers please note that I serve as a technical consultant for American Vanguard Chemical Company (aka AMVAC) who are the manufacturers of ddvp and Nuvan products. I also consult for many basic manufacturers as well as pest control service provider companies.

have a great day, paul b.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Dec 14 2011 1:34:15
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HI Paul,

In regards to the effectiveness of DDVP, I was referring to the study referenced here:
http://insectsinthecity.blogspot.com/2011/11/bed-bug-chronicles-part-i.html

Dini Miller found that use according to the Nuvan ProStrips label was not terribly effective and even off-label use at higher than label rates was not enough to kill all life stages.

As Mike Merchant notes,

In a related study, Dini Miller from Virginia Tech, found that Nuvan Prostrips (dichlorvos) achieved incomplete BB adult (4%), nymph (6%) and egg (45%) mortality when used at the label rate on clothing in 42 gal. yard waste bags. On hard items (e.g., books, computers, shoes and other personal items) Nuvan strips at the label rate achieved 48% mortality for adult BBs, 84% mortality for nymphs and 100% mortality for eggs. [According to Miller, to follow the label rate for a 42 gal. bag, one must cut a single Nuvan strip into 22 pieces (1/22 strip/bag)] If a whole strip is used in the bag (22X label rate), and the strip is held for 14 days, all nymphs and adults were killed, but only 63% of eggs were killed. Nuvan is commonly used as a fumigant by our industry, and does kill BBs; however this study suggests that it will not guarantee a kill of all BB life stages, even at higher than label rates (which we would, of course, never suggest).

Emphasis added.
contessabugs

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Feb 1 2012 20:18:59
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This is an interesting turn of events!!!!!! It appears that Jeff White is seeing the benefits of using Cedar Oil. Check this out.

http://youtu.be/_ePwVp7GfUA

I have used CedarCide on a customer and yes it does create a lot of fog when usuing the ULV cold fogger! And it does leave an oily residue that can be wiped up by the homeowner. And there is a cedar smell for a few days. But no bed bugs 3 weeks later! And 1/3 the cost of heating the unit.
DreDay17

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Feb 1 2012 21:39:48
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I was gonna post in my own thread about this but it seems to fit here.

Cedarcide can kill bedbugs and surprisingly is very effective against eggs. That being EVERYONE should be weary with using this as a primary means of treatment. Don't be confuse people, this is a contact killer and repellant. I had to use this stuff today to treat my headboard as I had found some bedbugs, cast skins, and possible eggs.

It does work and is very effective but after this I will no longer be using it. I will be switching to a regimen of tri-die, transport, and demand
Nobugsonme

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Feb 1 2012 23:52:13
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contessabugs - 3 hours ago »
This is an interesting turn of events!!!!!! It appears that Jeff White is seeing the benefits of using Cedar Oil. Check this out.
http://youtu.be/_ePwVp7GfUA
I have used CedarCide on a customer and yes it does create a lot of fog when usuing the ULV cold fogger! And it does leave an oily residue that can be wiped up by the homeowner. And there is a cedar smell for a few days. But no bed bugs 3 weeks later! And 1/3 the cost of heating the unit.

contessa,

You might actually benefit from reading the entire thread above-- both Jeff White's comments and those of others.

Jeff White does not recommend fogging with Cedarcide.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 0:49:09
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reallyfreakedout,
Your post above was deleted.
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 8:32:18
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this is a contact killer and repellant

Do you think this may have contributed to the diffusion of bedbugs that you have seen?

If the answer is yes it may indicate why sometimes treating with the wrong things can cause a much greater issue.

David
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 9:38:10
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I am in agreement with David (imagine that). It's about application methods and product choice. If you're looking to reduce repellency and movement is a concern, cedarcide may not be the best choice.

Obviously fogging is never the right choice.

And to clarify, I'm not in support of using Cedarcide all the time. I clearly laid-out my concerns with the product in the video and the minute that there's another EPA exempt, all-natural that has shown similar effects on bugs and eggs I won't touch Cedarcide with a 10 foot pole. Until then, IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS my hand has been forced.
P Bello

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 9:57:56
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Jeff,

Can you elaborate on which "certain situations" ?

Thx, pb
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 10:09:23
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Hi Paul,

I am most curious on that as well.

I appreciate the sentiment Jeff but if we were in agreement then you would NEVER use a product that has repellant properties so Satan will have to leave the snow shoes in the cupboard for at least another day.

I am sure however that there will be days in the future where we do agree, after all if you think about something for long enough you cant fail to come to the logical conclusions.

David
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 11:02:38
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Situations where an all-natural is needed and I need to be assured that if bugs or eggs are being contacted they are dying. We just treated a jail where dusts and liquid residuals were a non-option and I had no electricity as well. Therefore no steamers.

Paul you'd be happy. Nuvan was a critical component along with the Cedarcide.
P Bello

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 11:08:33
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Thanks Jeff !

I've had some folks comment to me about the "oily residue" with certain of the natural products.

(Of course, there are reasons that I'm precluded from commenting on certain field trial observations.)

In your experience, has this been an issue and if so, what are your comments on this?

Thanks much ! paul b.
DreDay17

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 11:18:08
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The bedbug problem as I have said before was spread to other parts of the house. Now I asked some experts before what I should use as I could only self treat. I was giving the generic answer and not given any products I could possible use. Then I came across this thread and read about cedarcide. Read the success,problems and methods. Was a little concerned and heard about DE so I used it along with the spray. I did not spray the carpet but did some cracks around the window.

Now to Jeff your video about what products you used you listed tri-die. Though from what i understand tri-die is also a repellant. Jeff could you elaborate why you used tri-die?
JWhiteBBCTV

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 13:02:56
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Repellency is a dramatically overstated problem. Most pesticides are repellent to bed bugs. Where repellency becomes a significant problem is when people are overapplying pesticides (foggers, etc....). Then you're making an entire apartment repellent and that's where you see mass-movement from one area to another. Spot applications don't typically drive bugs in mass out of apartments.

I think it was Kentucky but one of the universities demonstrated that the attraction of food and spotting (aggregation pheremone) overcame the repellency of pesticides. Therefore if being applied correctly and carefully, the repellency of pesticides is a near non-factor as far as I'm concerned.

Tri-Die is for cracks and crevices. Repellent or not, once you treat a crack with dust it's not going to be conducive to a bed bug and therefore they probably won't readily enter it.
JWhiteBBCTV

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 13:07:02
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Paul,

We don't use oily, all-naturals often so I don't really have any insight in regards to clients opinions. I know I wouldn't be comfortable with in on my carpets and floors and therefore we shy away from using it in most instances. In the setting where I used it there were all concrete floors and after 24 hours it was cleaned anyway. We didn't leave it in place since residual wasn't something we were trying to achieve with the application of cedar oil.

I feel oily products are better suited for agricultural and outdoor settings.

Jeff
P Bello

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 14:12:53
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OK, thanks !

When there's no power available there's always the option of bginring in a portable generator and nowadays such units are very affodable.

Take care ! paul b.
DreDay17

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 16:15:48
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Jeff are you still using the same products for your treatments?

From what I understand is that tri-die is great for cracks and crevices and is one of the key components that I will be using in my treatment that is up and coming.
JWhiteBBCTV

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Feb 2 2012 16:55:25
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Yes, we're still using the same products and I am a big fan of aerosolized Tri-Die for cracks and crevices.
C. Hollingsworth

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Posted 5 months ago
Fri Nov 30 2012 20:49:48
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Cedarcide and its affiliates are being sued by the Federal Trade Commission for "deceptive practices" and "false bed bug claims," among other violations of the law. You can read about it here http://ftc.gov/opa/2012/09/cedarcidermb.shtm?utm_source=NPMA+ePestWorld%3A+September+11%2C+2012&utm_campaign=ePW071012&utm_medium=email and the actual lawsuit is here: ftc.gov/os/caselist/1123128/120910cedarcidecmpt.pdf

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