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2011 Nightmare

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Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Apr 1 2011 12:13:15
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I am a mother of 4 children. Last year, my son came home with lice and I nearly lost my mind. I started hearing about bed bugs in the news and decided to become educated and read a book about them just in case. Well, early March, my 4 year old daughter woke up with bites. Three in a row and single ones. I thought it was a rash but in the back of my mind I started to worry. Checked all the mattresses and saw no signs. Pushed some dust away on her headboard and blood burst out of a speck. I called a pest control company. The man checked everything and said there were no signs of anything. No poop, no blood smears, no moltings, etc. He put me on a preventive plan and sent a man over to generally spray some alpine dust, etc. I then found a live bed bug on a sheet in the basement laundry room. Killed it with Rest Free cinnamon spray and bagged it. A doctor confirmed she thought my daughter had bed bug bites. Everyone thought I was crazy. I rented a dumpster and started getting rid of old clothes and clutter in all my closets. I called the pest control guy and he put me on their bed bug chemical treatment plan....3 times every 2 weeks. I washed and bagged all of our clothes with the help of people willing to be exposed. One person can not do all this. I spent 1000 at Bed Bath & Beyond on mattress encasements. I had a dog come and he alerted to my daughter's mattress and a tall dresser in her room. He also alerted to a chair in my room and our mattress. I ordered all new mattresses and all new PROTECT A BED encasements....another $1000 for the encasements. I wasn't about to take the other ones off the old mattresses. I lost 12 pounds in 2-3 weeks. I take a low dose of xanax here and there when I can't take it. My kids and husband want their life back to normal. I have ruined their shoes in the dryer. I have bags and bags of things I do not know what to do with that are not clothes ie purses, sparkle uggs, telescopes, baseball cards, large toys, etc. Do I buy a packtite and spend the time putting everything in it? do i use no pest strips on these things or will i be causing us to get cancer? I found an expert pest control company in NY/NJ that everyone raves about on line. They want a minimum of $6900 to do thermal remediation? on my 2355 sq feet home. My husband refuses. Does the chemical treatment I am going through work? How long should the dog lady wait to come back to clear my house after the last treatment. My daughter screamed one night while watching TV on the couch and there were 6 bite marks on her back. The dog did not alert to the couch. What do I do with the couch? I spend hours searching with flashlights and sticky tape. Do I buy the bed climb ups? Should I have the house painted? If so, when would be the best time ie before or after the dog comes? I can't run a household with 6 people and live out of plastic bags forever. I found something on my son's bed that looked like a molting. I spent at least an hour analyzing it....was it a boogie or was it a molting. This is not going well. PLEASE HELP with some of my questions. I feel like this won't be over until I pay thousands of dollars for the guy to come with the heat treatment.

The first time the pest man came he treated with bedlam, gentrol igr, suspend sc, and tempo 1 percent dust. The second time he used bedlam, phantom and tempo. Is this going to work?
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Apr 1 2011 12:17:20
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We had our second treatment this past Tuesday. I found a live bug on my daughter's comforter at 7:00 am. Tried to pick it up in a ziplock and squashed it by accident. I spent hours yesterday running an old credit card in cracks and crevices...nothing. I have to find them. Also, I noticed bird nests outside my room and my daughter's....any chance these are swallow bugs, bat bugs, etc?? I have to rule that out and don't know how. The first bug I found on a sheet in the laundry was an adult. The pest control guy threw it away so I have nothing to id except a very small bug I have in a bag from the comforter that I squashed. I looks like a speck.
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Apr 1 2011 12:26:42
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I am going to therapy next week because I cannot deal with the anxiety from all of this. I feel like I will never have my old life back. My husband refuses to pay for the thermal remediation. It has caused major problems between us. I feel like that will be the only way I can believe all the bugs are dead. This is a nightmare. I pray to GOD someone is working on a better solution for all of this. The living out of plastic bags may be fine for someone living in a small place with no kids but living in a single family home with 4 kids....it's insane. I bought a packtite....have not used it yet...we live in an older house...afraid it will start the house on fire....i am also afraid to take things out of the plastic bags that need to be treated. Also, I have banned all sleepovers. My daughter is not happy. Do people with bed bugs go to school? I guess so. Do they go to social functions? I wouldn't take my purse into the doctor's office. My parents insist on visiting me. Is that ok? I don't want anyone to bring their jacket or bag into my house. I can't live this way. What the heck is a low infestation anyway?? Does that mean you have 5 bugs, 100 bugs, 42 bugs!!!! what the hell. more than 1 bug is a problem so why is everyone like don't worry you have a low infestation. One bug sucking my daugher's blood and probably everyone else's in the house is a BIG deal to me. Sorry for all the venting. I feel like I am fighting this alone and everyone else just thinks it will be fine and the chemicals will work. Can someone tell me why they are not dying. I guess if the chemical doesn't hit them they have to walk through it and eventually die. WHEN? How long? They probably keep having babies. Obviously, I need help!!!
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Apr 1 2011 12:28:42
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Oh and one more thing. The protect a bed BOX SPRING encasements all RIPPED when my husband moved the beds for the pest control man. They are sending me MATTRESS encasements to replace them (AMAZING MAN HELPED ME FROM THAT CO). The mattress encasements are stronger. My advice is NOT to buy the box spring encasements if you have a bed bug problem. BUY THE MATTRESS ENCASEMENTS for both the mattress and the box spring.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Apr 1 2011 12:42:42
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Hi Dcajv,

You need to be absolutely sure you have bed bugs and not another problem.

If you have bird mites, bat bugs, etc., this needs to be determined before treatment begins, or it will be costly and won't likely solve the problem -- the source must also be removed in the case of bugs coming from a nest. Bat bugs look very similar to bed bugs. In the case of mites, I believe the treatment used is also different.

There are also non-pest causes you need to rule out which can cause similar skin reactions.

Doctors cannot diagnose bed bugs from looking at your suspected bite marks.

I have some questions for you:

Did anyone with experience ever positively identify one of these insects as a bed bug?

When the dog alerted, did the handler look for and find bed bugs? Were there other signs (fecal stains, cast skins, eggs)? (See this FAQ on dogs.)

I understand you were planning three treatments spaced two weeks apart. And you've had the first treatment.

Spray/dust treatments can work well for bed bugs, but the technician must be knowledgeable and skilled and sometimes it can take more than two visits.

Heat or Vikane gas should be one-shot treatments *if* done properly, but do cost more at least initially.

Any treatment will fail if you have a continued exposure to bed bugs (coming from attached neighbors, work, school, daycare, or any source with which you have regular contact).

Cast skins look a lot like a deflated bed bug. See this photo of a live bed bug standing next to its cast skin (see the legs?):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bedbug1.JPG

More photos here:
http://bedbugger.com/photos-of-bed-bugs-and-signs-of-bed-bugs/

Were all the bugs you've seen "speck" sized?

The smallest bed bugs (unfed first instar nymphs) are 1mm long. Look at a ruler and consider if your pest was smaller. The unfed first instar is translucent, and fed ones are bright red and swollen. Great comparative photos in the previous link. Also photos of adults.

A speck might also be a mite, but remember there are mites in the home which may squish with red liquid which are not necessarily biting pests. It is possible you have a form of biting mites. These are not invisible, but will all be very small. I have heard glue traps placed on window sills can catch mites. Entomologists can identify them if your pest tech can't, but most good firms have access to someone like this.

It's also possible you have bed bugs but have not seen one yet. If you can get a photo of anything, people here can ID it. Don't throw away anything else you find.

It's possible there's another cause entirely.

Also read this FAQ about other possible causes, as well as the final section about detecting bed bugs:
http://bedbugger.com/2006/10/22/faq-what-are-bed-bugs-do-i-have-them-what-else-could-be-causing-this
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Apr 1 2011 13:49:13
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Thank you for taking the time to respond to my posting. Regarding your questions:
2 different people from my pest control company told me the adult bed bug i found was definitely a bed bug. It matched the pics in their brochure very closely.

The dog from nj alerted to a chair in my room and the mattress. The handler did a visual inspection and did not find bugs or signs. The dog alerted in my daughters room to a dresser and the mattress. The handler said there looked to be fecal staining on the dresser. My pest guy wasn't sure. I did see blood smears on a pillow in my daughters room.

I have seen 3 bugs and my husband one. I saw a large one ( got thrown) out. A speck whic burst. A live bug engorged...it burst and is now in a bag very small.

How can i I know where the bugs are coming from? I can't check the school. My husband owns a business and refuses to pay more for a dog to come through. I don't think I should call all my children's friends parents and ask them to check their homes.

How do I rule out the birds? Remove the nest and look at it?

Do fecal droppings look like pepper and move easily or are they hard to brush off?

Thanks again for your help.

Thanks again.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 2 2011 0:45:33
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Hi Dcajv,

Dcajv - 10 hours ago »

The dog from nj alerted to a chair in my room and the mattress. The handler did a visual inspection and did not find bugs or signs. The dog alerted in my daughters room to a dresser and the mattress. The handler said there looked to be fecal staining on the dresser. My pest guy wasn't sure. I did see blood smears on a pillow in my daughters room.

A canine alert followed by a visual inspection which turns up nothing is not definitive.

Blood smears are not really definitive from what I understand. If there's a cut (even from scratching what you're thinking are bites) can cause this. I am not an expert but my understanding is blood would probably be coming from a human -- fecal doesn't look the same. (Occasionally bed bugs are crushed and this causes blood, but there would probably be a squished bug present.)

It sounds like you had a pest identified, but if you find any more, try to get a close-up photo. Bat bugs can be discerned from bed bugs by a trained eye (not mine, but some here) and they may be able to do this with a photo. There are also people you can mail a bug to for ID if you need to. Private message me if you need that later.

I have seen 3 bugs and my husband one. I saw a large one ( got thrown) out. A speck whic burst. A live bug engorged...it burst and is now in a bag very small.

Did it burst because someone hit it?

How can i I know where the bugs are coming from? I can't check the school. My husband owns a business and refuses to pay more for a dog to come through. I don't think I should call all my children's friends parents and ask them to check their homes.

You asked about the effectiveness of sprays/dust treatment plans. I was just trying to give you a sense that there are variables which sometimes mean treatment is not successful. If you are in an unattached home, then I would not worry too much about this at this point. Most people seem to be able to get rid of bed bugs and I would assume you will be able to too.

How do I rule out the birds? Remove the nest and look at it?

A pest control professional should inspect if you are concerned about nests. I do not think you should be dealing with nests and I am not sure you'll necessarily be able to find what you're looking for easily.

That said, I would not worry too much about bat bugs -- it does not sound like there's any reason to think bats are nesting nearby or in your home. Right?

Do fecal droppings look like pepper and move easily or are they hard to brush off?

They are not so much droppings as spots or stains. They can't be brushed off. On fabric, think of a black or dark sharpie (marker ink) stain. On a solid surface like wood, think of dots of black paint.

I know all of this is stressful, but you are getting treatment and it should gradually kill them off. There should be fewer bed bugs after each treatment.

If you and others in the home don't have any suspected bites, you might want to use some passive monitors (BBAlert or ClimbUp Interceptors) to monitor their continued presence -- that is if your PCO has not put any monitors down. You can read about monitors here. Some people use one of these products, some people don't.

As for dealing with stuff that can't be washed or dried, did your PCO tell you what to do with it? Is it bagged (untreated)? Or sitting out?

Remember if bed bugs are in items which are exposed, they should eventually come out to feed, cross poison and die.

Many here have used the Packtite, for making sure items taken in and out of the home aren't spreading bed bugs, or for treating items.

Some people also use DDVP. At the same time, many people don't do either of those things.

I know this is stressful but it sounds like you're doing what you should do -- getting treatment. I would not worry about what happens after the third treatment or whether you should choose a different treatment methodology at this point. I assume you have paid for the course of three treatments? So if your problem does not go away after the third treatment (IF), then you can reassess at that point.

Finally, this is a stressful situation. Be kind to yourself and try to do things that make you feel good and relaxed. You have to keep living and enjoying life during this process, as best you can. You will get through this problem.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 2 2011 0:55:59
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Dcajv - 12 hours ago »
Oh and one more thing. The protect a bed BOX SPRING encasements all RIPPED when my husband moved the beds for the pest control man. They are sending me MATTRESS encasements to replace them (AMAZING MAN HELPED ME FROM THAT CO). The mattress encasements are stronger. My advice is NOT to buy the box spring encasements if you have a bed bug problem. BUY THE MATTRESS ENCASEMENTS for both the mattress and the box spring.

Hi Dcajv,

Thanks for the suggestion. Sorry you had to deal with that problem.

Some others who recommend encasements have recommended putting mattress encasements on both the mattress and box (KillerQueen is one), and we share this suggestion in our Encasements page.
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 2 2011 12:31:36
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In response to your questions:

SMALL BUG: The small bug I found engorged on my daughter's comforter the morning of the 2nd scheduled pest control treatment burst because I tried to pick it up with a zip lock bag.

BATS & BIRDS: I have never seen a bat in the house but we see them all the time in the summer swooping down to the pool at dusk. I think they live in a big tree outside our house. So, I don't think it's bat bugs. My concern was more about the birds nest(s) outside my daughter's window and my window. We have an attic right above our rooms and the bird's nests. I do NOT think they are mites...isn't there a bird bug called a swallow bug that also looks like bed bugs. I just want to make sure it's not the birds so I can rule that out. I will have the pest control guy investigate if I can get him to agree. He was here about an hour for the 2nd treatment. Isn't that a short amount of time to treat all cracks crevices and baseboards in 3 bedrooms, hallway, living room?

FECAL MARKS: The only thing I found similar to what you are describing are at the bottom of my 2 dogs beds. Pest control guy said it looked like the markings but wasn't sure. I keep the dogs in the kitchen at night now and don't let them sleep in our beds. Not sure if that helps or not. I have also ran their beds through the wash and hot dryer at least 2x.

STUFF IN BAGS: Clothing for 6 people is all washed and in zip lock bags on my dining room table and on tables in the attic and basement. All clothing I could not wash has been dry cleaned, left in their plastic, covered in contractor bags taped with duct tape to a table in the attic. There are also many bags of things I cannot wash that are not treated. Shoes, books, guitars, pictures, photo albums, leather jackets, telescopes, laptops, suitcases, travel bags, papers, portable dvd players, the list goes on and on and on. I was planning on putting these things over the next 10 years (because it's going to take me forever) in the packtite and either back in plastic bags or back out.

MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU IN CASE YOU DON'T HAVE A HEADACHE YET:

DOG: Any suggestions on how long I wait after the last treatment to have the dog come back to clear the house? She is currently scheduled to come 3 weeks after the last treatment.

STUFF: How long do people typically wait after their last treatment to put their things back in their house that have been treated? Do you suggest I wait until the dog clears or 3 months after last treatment with no signs.

PAINTING: Does painting a house help. Any idea about what painting might do to the residual pesticides. I don't want to get rid of anything that might kill the bugs. Can I have the house painted after the dog clears or would you recommend waiting a year or so.

CAR: My pest man keeps telling me not to worry about my car. Remember I cart around 4 kids and their friends all the time. Why wouldn't I worry about the car? Should I? I have sprayed it with Rest Free and some insecticide marked for bed bugs I bought at home depot. Should I insist he treat it the next time he comes?

CLIMB UPS: The climb ups are going to cost me another 150 to 200. I have 5 beds, 2 couches and other chairs. I need the XL and Standard size. The cardboard passive monitors would also cost me close to that. This is becoming obscene. I need to know if they are gone or not after the 3rd treatment. Just talking to myself here! Sorry.

DELUSIONS: I am going to play the lottery every day. Then when I win I am going to build a modern house with all solid steel furniture which has the ability to heat itself to 140 degrees whenever I want to push a button. Then I wake up from my dream and search the bed for signs of bed bugs. Just throwing a little humor in here.....honestly, I want this!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for spending your time helping people like me. If you ever want to talk live with another crazy woman about her insanity with bed bugs, give me a call. I am a pleasure to be around lately.
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 2 2011 12:44:45
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diatomaceous earth food grade: I keep hearing about this and how helpful it is. Can I get some and use it in addition to what the exterminator is doing?
ineedhelp

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 2 2011 15:24:33
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DcajV you must be my twin!!! everything you said is exactly how im feeling right now... feel free to message me whenever, sounds like we are very similar in this!
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 3 2011 2:46:35
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Dcajv - 13 hours ago »
In response to your questions:
....
BATS & BIRDS: I have never seen a bat in the house but we see them all the time in the summer swooping down to the pool at dusk. I think they live in a big tree outside our house. So, I don't think it's bat bugs. My concern was more about the birds nest(s) outside my daughter's window and my window. We have an attic right above our rooms and the bird's nests. I do NOT think they are mites...isn't there a bird bug called a swallow bug that also looks like bed bugs. I just want to make sure it's not the birds so I can rule that out. I will have the pest control guy investigate if I can get him to agree. He was here about an hour for the 2nd treatment. Isn't that a short amount of time to treat all cracks crevices and baseboards in 3 bedrooms, hallway, living room?

Yes, there is a bird bug which is like a bed bug. We don't hear much about these. It's possible.

I know you're not worried about mites, but mites are one reason I would avoid handling a bird's nest yourself. Getting the PCO to take a look is a good idea.

FECAL MARKS: The only thing I found similar to what you are describing are at the bottom of my 2 dogs beds. Pest control guy said it looked like the markings but wasn't sure. I keep the dogs in the kitchen at night now and don't let them sleep in our beds. Not sure if that helps or not. I have also ran their beds through the wash and hot dryer at least 2x.

That sounds good.

STUFF IN BAGS: Clothing for 6 people is all washed and in zip lock bags on my dining room table and on tables in the attic and basement. All clothing I could not wash has been dry cleaned, left in their plastic, covered in contractor bags taped with duct tape to a table in the attic. There are also many bags of things I cannot wash that are not treated. Shoes, books, guitars, pictures, photo albums, leather jackets, telescopes, laptops, suitcases, travel bags, papers, portable dvd players, the list goes on and on and on. I was planning on putting these things over the next 10 years (because it's going to take me forever) in the packtite and either back in plastic bags or back out.

Sounds good -- some items (e.g. photos in photo albums) may be problematic being heated up to 120-140 F but most of the rest sounds okay.

MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU IN CASE YOU DON'T HAVE A HEADACHE YET:
DOG: Any suggestions on how long I wait after the last treatment to have the dog come back to clear the house? She is currently scheduled to come 3 weeks after the last treatment.

I don't know. That is probably good timing.

STUFF: How long do people typically wait after their last treatment to put their things back in their house that have been treated? Do you suggest I wait until the dog clears or 3 months after last treatment with no signs.

One expert (Richard Cooper) has said he would consider a home clear after 55 days with no signs or bites (if you react to bites). Since only your daughter has reacted so far, it's hard to know if you and your husband are being bitten and not reacting, or if you are both not being bitten yet.

PAINTING: Does painting a house help. Any idea about what painting might do to the residual pesticides. I don't want to get rid of anything that might kill the bugs. Can I have the house painted after the dog clears or would you recommend waiting a year or so.
CAR: My pest man keeps telling me not to worry about my car. Remember I cart around 4 kids and their friends all the time. Why wouldn't I worry about the car? Should I? I have sprayed it with Rest Free and some insecticide marked for bed bugs I bought at home depot. Should I insist he treat it the next time he comes?

Cars can be infested, but it does not seem to be terribly common. It does not sound like you have a lot of bed bugs, if your PCO has only detected a couple of possible fecal stains. Having fewer bed bugs would seem to make it less likely that you trekked them from home to car.

I can't answer the painting question. Maybe someone else can.

I think I might not worry too much about this right now if there are no obvious signs. You can also have the PCO inspect the car and treat if necessary.

CLIMB UPS: The climb ups are going to cost me another 150 to 200. I have 5 beds, 2 couches and other chairs. I need the XL and Standard size. The cardboard passive monitors would also cost me close to that. This is becoming obscene. I need to know if they are gone or not after the 3rd treatment. Just talking to myself here! Sorry.

I would not use both (they do really different things), and of course nothing is an absolute requirement. No one can guarantee either monitor will let you know you have no bed bugs after the third treatment. Even a dog cannot do that with 100% certainty.

I know that's frustrating.

With passive monitors, it's more a case that you are monitoring going forward and can spring into action at the first sign of bed bugs.

The BBAlert Passives are meant to be attractive harborages. You install them and then you check regularly (weekly now, monthly once this seems to be "over") for fecal stains or other signs. The inventor (David Cain) is a regular here and invented this after treating thousands and thousands of cases.

ClimbUp Interceptors will catch bed bugs attempting to climb on or off the bed. If they are in the bed or frame, and stay there, you won't see anything. Some fear ClimbUps may cause bed bugs to be deterred and spread, but there has been a study showing they can catch bed bugs.

You can see the FAQ I linked to above if you want to read more about these.

DELUSIONS: I am going to play the lottery every day. Then when I win I am going to build a modern house with all solid steel furniture which has the ability to heat itself to 140 degrees whenever I want to push a button. Then I wake up from my dream and search the bed for signs of bed bugs. Just throwing a little humor in here.....honestly, I want this!

Yes, lots of us have independently had exactly this idea.

A house that can heat itself would be expensive but a single sauna room that goes to 120 F would be more economical.

A building in Vancouver put one in as part of their construction, so new tenants would be able to treat belongings and furniture before moving in, and anyone being treated for bed bugs could heat their stuff to speed the process.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for spending your time helping people like me. If you ever want to talk live with another crazy woman about her insanity with bed bugs, give me a call. I am a pleasure to be around lately.

You're very welcome!
Nobugsonme

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 3 2011 2:55:15
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I would not supplement your PCO's work with DE or anything else unless you clear it with him first. Many people misapply or overapply DE or do not take appropriate safety precautions with it. If you do ever use it, do your research first. Our FAQ on DE is just a starting point.

Also, note your PCO used a dust in your first treatment. Dust is supposed to stay down and that's probably why he did not reapply it the second time. And probably a good reason for you not to add your own DE to the mix.

(Disclaimer: I am not an expert or pest pro.)
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Apr 5 2011 11:52:19
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Thanks again for weeding through all my venting to answer my questions. I am finding marks on me that I believe are bites. My husband discounts everything I think is happening to me. Last night, my right ear turned bright red and felt on fire. My pco didn't think we would have bites after the 2nd treatment. I am not surprised though since I found a live bug the morning before he sprayed....doesn't it take 10 days to kill any newly hatched nymphs. He also thought bites on the face were not normal....I think he's wrong.

Regarding waiting 55 days to put clothes and other things back...that could mean July! Or later...talking to myself again. Thanks.
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 10:23:16
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I have a lot of items that I need to run through a packtite. Does anyone know if I can put the XL or XXL zip lock bags right in the packtite....poke holes all over the bag and start the packtite. Some of the items are small and I don't want them to fall into the heating unit. I also want to avoid contamination by removing the items from the bag before placing them in the packtite.
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 10:29:57
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One more thing, My pco would not remove the bird nest I have in my gutter outside my window because he said it is an active nest. He does not believe the nest is a source of the bed bug problem. I don't know what else to do regarding the birds. My home is being treated. I guess I let them continue their nesting in total bliss and hope their bugs don't come inside? Feeling hopeless.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 11:32:20
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Hello Dcajv: Regarding your question about packtiting in Zlocks - yes you could do that - some people just open the bags up at the top and put the thermometer in the middle of the things in the middle so that you don't have to damage the bags - the ziplocs can be treated at the same time and reused - they are expensive to be replacing all of the time. I happened to have some mesh bags in the house that you buy to wash and dry lingerie in - I have't seen them recently but I purchased them in a department store. I have two and they hold quite a lot - they are ideal for packtiting loose objects. Most other things can be stacked on the rack
scaredsilly

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 12:00:38
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some people just open the bags up at the top and put the thermometer in the middle of the things in the middle so that you don't have to damage the bags - the ziplocs can be treated at the same time and reused - they are expensive to be replacing all of the time.
Not to freak you out, but I did this, brought the items up to temp and cooked for an hour and later there were live nymphs in the clothing. If you do this, cook for at least 4 hours after getting past 120, and move the thermometer around from time to time to get an accurate reading.
bbgirl

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 12:06:52
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Oh no! I'm so glad you posted this......I have a bunch of stuff that I packtited and have sealed up in bags - I'm going to redo them for longer. I'd hate to go through all of this and then reinfest my home by opening bags later. I don't really understand though - we've been told again and again that an hour at 120 degrees plus should do it.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 15:18:04
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Dcajv - 4 hours ago »
One more thing, My pco would not remove the bird nest I have in my gutter outside my window because he said it is an active nest. He does not believe the nest is a source of the bed bug problem. I don't know what else to do regarding the birds. My home is being treated. I guess I let them continue their nesting in total bliss and hope their bugs don't come inside? Feeling hopeless.

Birds, if there's any chance whatsoever the presence of your nest in the gutter outside Dcajv's window might be correlated with her having bugs, I vote for Dcajv to decommission your nest.

Sorry birds, but there are a lot of other places you can nest. Dcajv and her husband and four children don't have any other house they can live in.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 19:06:14
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I agree but at this point I feel so alone in fighting this. My husband isn't about to go and remove the bird nest. My daughter just got bit around 4:00 pm today after not being bit for a week. She was watching tv in broad daylight. She hangs around our dogs alot. I am starting to think the dogs are carrying them. I swear I will do whatever I have to do to get the $$ for thermal remediation by AAA superior or whatever it's called. They want a min of 6900. Someone please start reassuring me that I can get rid of them with my pco's chemical treatments.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 19:46:44
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scaredsilly - 7 hours ago »

some people just open the bags up at the top and put the thermometer in the middle of the things in the middle so that you don't have to damage the bags - the ziplocs can be treated at the same time and reused - they are expensive to be replacing all of the time.
Not to freak you out, but I did this, brought the items up to temp and cooked for an hour and later there were live nymphs in the clothing. If you do this, cook for at least 4 hours after getting past 120, and move the thermometer around from time to time to get an accurate reading.

scaredsilly,

Did you leave the Ziplocs open in the Packtite? This is the suggestion I've heard from others.

I think the temperature at the center of the items in the bag should be monitored, the bag should not be packed too tightly, and you should definitely get the temperature for 120 F for an hour.

I'm not an expert on Packtiting, but I am not sure about your advice to move the thermometer around during treatment.

To maintain appropriate temperatures and ensure the killing temperature is reached at the core, I think it may be better to leave it at the center of the items, and not disturb the process or the temperature by opening the Packtite and adjusting it.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 19:53:56
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Dcajv - 9 hours ago »
One more thing, My pco would not remove the bird nest I have in my gutter outside my window because he said it is an active nest. He does not believe the nest is a source of the bed bug problem. I don't know what else to do regarding the birds. My home is being treated. I guess I let them continue their nesting in total bliss and hope their bugs don't come inside? Feeling hopeless.

I am not an expert, but my understanding is that pests biting birds in a nest will stay and feed on them. They would abandon the nest and come to feed on humans when the birds have left. If this is true, your PCO may be correct.

Perhaps some experts can weigh in on that.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 20:09:21
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With ziplocs, We always recommend opening the ziploc bag when it is in the Packtite and placing the sensor probe in the center mass of whatever is in the bag, not just in the bag. Once you get to 120 F, you only need to cook it for an hour more as no bugs will survive 120 F for an hour. You can do it with the bags closed, but you will still need to get the sensor probe into the center mass of what you are treating then seal up the bag around the thermometer probe cord.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 22:34:37
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My husband says when he looks at the packtite all he sees are $ signs. He can't wait to see our electric bill....the machine probably doesn't kill anything.... Just makes me feel better... He wants to know one other person who has one ....CLUELESS
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 11 2011 22:46:50
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Nobugsonme - 2 hours ago »

Dcajv - 9 hours ago »
One more thing, My pco would not remove the bird nest I have in my gutter outside my window because he said it is an active nest. He does not believe the nest is a source of the bed bug problem. I don't know what else to do regarding the birds. My home is being treated. I guess I let them continue their nesting in total bliss and hope their bugs don't come inside? Feeling hopeless.

I am not an expert, but my understanding is that pests biting birds in a nest will stay and feed on them. They would abandon the nest and come to feed on humans when the birds have left. If this is true, your PCO may be correct.
Perhaps some experts can weigh in on that.

Pure speculation by non-expert: if bugs are feeding at will on birds over weeks and months, aren't bugs going to become so numerous and crowded that many will look for new horizons. It will be exactly like living in an apartment building next to someone who doesn't react so their apartment supplies bugs to the whole building.
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Apr 12 2011 9:13:46
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Dcajv - 10 hours ago »
My husband says when he looks at the packtite all he sees are $ signs. He can't wait to see our electric bill....

See http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/packtite-electricity-cost#post-96583 .

jrbtnyc - 4 months ago »
...
In NYC, [PackTite's use of] 600 watts at about 9 cents per kilowatt hour comes out to a little more than 5 cents per hour to operate...i.e. not even 25 cents for each 4-hour run.
...
djames1921

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Apr 12 2011 9:14:41
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Dcajv,

Based on average utility rates, if you ran your packtite all day long (8 hours) it would cost you about 50 cents. As far as whether it works or not, check out the packtite kills bed bugs on are new Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Packtite/200225820009143. No life stages survive 120 f for an hour.
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Apr 12 2011 11:14:28
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You don't have to convince me! I know it works. Just wanted to show you the kind of stuff I have to deal with related to people who gave no idea.
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 13 2011 11:49:45
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My daughter was bit at 4 pm in the living room Monday. Three red welts /bites on her wrist. We have already had 2 treatments. This am we were preparing for the 3rd pco treatment. I found a nymph hanging out near where the bed fits into the bottom of the headboard. I went to the kitchen, got a ziplock and alcohol. It was still there when I got back. Squirted it. Tried to get it with a paper towel and it burst. Pco said it was one. He is shocked anything could live on the bed he has treated 2 times already. Fought with my husband about getting heat treatments. Is this still very normal to see bugs before the 3rd treatment? Can someone tell me if the pco should be scheduled to come again in 2 weeks. The dog comes on 3 weeks. Should the pco just come in 3 weeks when the dog comes or should he come in 2 weeks and reschedule the dog. I don't want the bed bugs growing and reproducing without another treatment in 2 weeks. Advice?
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 13 2011 14:18:58
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Dcajv - 2 hours ago »
My daughter was bit at 4 pm in the living room Monday. Three red welts /bites on her wrist. We have already had 2 treatments. This am we were preparing for the 3rd pco treatment. I found a nymph hanging out near where the bed fits into the bottom of the headboard. .... Pco said it was one. He is shocked anything could live on the bed he has treated 2 times already. Fought with my husband about getting heat treatments. Is this still very normal to see bugs before the 3rd treatment? Can someone tell me if the pco should be scheduled to come again in 2 weeks. The dog comes on 3 weeks. Should the pco just come in 3 weeks when the dog comes or should he come in 2 weeks and reschedule the dog. I don't want the bed bugs growing and reproducing without another treatment in 2 weeks. Advice?

I don't know about when the dog should come, but we generally hear people should get retreated in about 2 weeks if bed bugs are still present.

You still have bed bugs and it can take more than two or three treatments to get rid of them.

Note that most people do not feel bed bug bites as they occur. (It seems to be very unusual to experience this.) There's usually a delay of some kind. That's because bed bugs inject saliva when they bite you which has anticoagulant and anesthetic effects. It allows them to bite without being noticed at the time.

So when your daughter felt the ouch or the itch probably was not exactly when -- or where --the bite actually took place. Bed bug bite reactions can appear anywhere from hours to days later (a week is not unheard of).
Dcajv

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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 13 2011 14:35:23
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The pco treated right after i found the bug...he wants to wait and see if theres any activity over the weekend before booking 2 weeks from now...I think another treatment is necessary on 2 weeks regardless of what happens this weekend. Do you agree? If i wait 3 weeks until the dog comes and then he treats if the dog alerts then it gives them the chance to reproduce and feed more.
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 13 2011 14:43:25
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Dcajv - 6 minutes ago »
The pco treated right after i found the bug...he wants to wait and see if theres any activity over the weekend before booking 2 weeks from now...I think another treatment is necessary on 2 weeks regardless of what happens this weekend. Do you agree? If i wait 3 weeks until the dog comes and then he treats if the dog alerts then it gives them the chance to reproduce and feed more.

Does the PCO own the dog? Is there some relationship there? I guess I am not clear on why the two are related.

If the PCO is willing to retreat in two weeks IF you have continued activity (bites or signs), then this seems quite reasonable. If he has to see an actual bed bug, then that's problematic.

At some point, the last bed bug will be killed, and you won't need retreatment two weeks later at that point.
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 13 2011 15:07:00
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The dog and the pco are unrelated. The dog is from supersniff and the pco is local, Ehrlich. I guess I just want to know if I should book him 2 weeks from today or let him wait to come in 3 weeks with the dog
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 13 2011 15:14:41
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Is the PCO willing to retreat based on your daughter reporting bites, or does he need to see a bed bug each time before treating?

If he's willing to go on bite reports alone, then I am not sure why you are hiring a dog to determine if the problem persists.

(Bites can be reliable, but until it seems bed bugs are gone, I would not personally look for outside confirmation of that. That said, monitors are a good idea.)
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 13 2011 15:26:40
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The dog visit is part of supersniffs follow up. They came initially and then come out at the end to see if the dog alerts. I don't have to pay more. The pco didn't say if i have to show him an actual bug...he just said to let him know if there are any signs or bites. We never see many signs at all...I look for fecal staining, blood
Smears, moltings, bugs daily. I was hoping the do could help is focus on where to keep treating or to clear us.
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 13 2011 20:08:25
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Dcajv - 4 hours ago »
The dog visit is part of supersniffs follow up. They came initially and then come out at the end to see if the dog alerts. I don't have to pay more. The pco didn't say if i have to show him an actual bug...he just said to let him know if there are any signs or bites. .... I was hoping the do could help is focus on where to keep treating or to clear us.

Thanks for explaining that!
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 16 2011 1:27:33
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I pleased to report that I had my birds nest removed and the Cornell ornithology lab said my birds were house sparrows. I am guessing only swallow birds have swallow bugs? So this has helped me rule out the birds as the issue. I was bit on my face. The bite appeared around 7 pm. I am starting to wonder if they are in my phone!
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 16 2011 11:58:01
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Has anyone put their computer or portable DVD player in a packtite? I know it says no electronics but I thought maybe people tried and were successful in not ruining anything. I did almost ruin my husbands 100 percent wool coat....Took it to the cleaners after the packtite and I think they were able to get it's shape back. Is wool something that shouldn't go in a packtite?
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 16 2011 12:30:23
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I packtited a wool peacoat (probably too long as I wanted to be safe) and it came out a funny shape as well......I wore it anyway and bag it between uses so I don't have to do it again for a while. It seems to have worked it's way back into a reasonable semblance of it's original shape by wearing it.....the rest of my wardrobe is in pretty rough shape anyway from all of the washing and hot dryer time so it completes my fashion statement! I'm praying that I will be clear by the time the weather gets cold again and won't have to worry about these issues. In the meantime I wear a washable jacket as much as possible.

I wouldn't put any expensive electronics in the packtite.....the PCO's that use total home heat treatment advise that you remove these items when they treat a house....I've been wondering about them as well but I guess if there is no sign of infestation they're probably ok and any bugs that are in these items will eventually come out and cross the poisons.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 18 2011 19:08:20
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I have hardwood floors in most of my home. My pco said i can vacuum and mop. I gave my floors a bath in murphys oil one night. Now I worry about whether or not I removed the residual. Is it ok to vacuum and mop?
bbgirl

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 18 2011 20:08:18
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You should probably speak with your PCO about what he used and what type of cleaning you should do right now. Depending on what he used and how he applied it he may want you to leave it for a little while.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 21 2011 17:01:24
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There are two zip lock bags I am afraid to open to place in the packtite. One of the bags has three American girl dolls on it with some stuffed animals that were on my daughters bed. They are double bagged in zip locks. Can i just put the bags in the packtite closed and run the packtite for 8 hours without using the temp probe?

We first started seeing bites at the beginning of march. My daughter had a sleepover with 3 or 5 girls a week or so before. Should I call all the parents and ask them to check for bedbugs? I am not close with all of them. This isn't going over very well with my 14 yr old. Advice? I want to make sure we didn't infest them and also want to rule them out as the possible source. I just don't want to ruin my daughters life.

People say you can have bed bugs for
Months and not notice. My 14 yr old shares a too
With my 4 yr old. The 14 yr old had unexplainable itching that started in sept of 2010. My 4 yr old started getting bites in march. I am trying to figure out when this all started. Would they bite one person and then move onto the other as the infestation grows? Or bite both regardless of the size of the infestation. I think I am asking questions that can't be answered.
djames1921

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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 21 2011 22:15:21
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The thermometer is included with the packtite for a reason, open the bags once they are inside the packtite and use the thermometer. It is important to know that you have achieved 120f for an hour, and I would want to know that the proper temps was achieved for the proper time period.

Disclosure, I make the packtite.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 23 2011 13:18:59
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Does baby powder with talc kill bed bugs? I started putting it on before bed ( trying not to breathe it in of course)...I am hoping when they come to bite me they pick up some talc and die later? Wishful thinking or could it help?
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 23 2011 13:44:42
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Just to give you a quick response even though I'm a non-expert: I don't recall reading anywhere on bedbugger.com or elsewhere that baby powder/talc would have any deleterious effect on bed bugs.

Are you possibly confusing the baby powder/talc with diatomaceous earth, DE?

Or alternatively, did you somehow mix this up with the recommendation to use talc in ClimbUp® Interceptors to keep bugs from being able to gain a foothold in them and climb out of them. Note the talc used in that fashion isn't expected to harm the bb's, only to keep them from climbing.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 23 2011 14:14:09
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I don't want to be discouraging but three sprays are probably not going to do the job. I have had six and still have bugs, although I have never seen any anywhere except on my bed and then rarely. I have also seen some small bugs in my bathroom and kitchen but am not sure they were BBs. I know I must still have some [I hope not many] due to being bitten again and a little of their fecal matter. The worst of the initial infestation was inside my box spring and I have seen it written that this is common. The box spring and mattress were thorougly sprayed and then encased by me. Unfortunately, the box spring encasement got a small hole in it. I guess that started things all over again. You have to inspect the encasements often. I found that out. Since I have never seen in bugs in my closet or on my clothing, I wonder if I really have to ruin all my clothes by putting them in the dryer. The stuff I am using now doesn't fit me anymore, especially the pants. I brought a new pair of capris for summer and did wash them in hot water but hung them on my shower curtain rod to dry. I have never seen a bug inside my dresser drawers but took all the clothes out months ago and am living out of a garbage bag with a few clothes and linens. However, I saw an add on this site for BB-proof suitcase and clothes container and purchased that today. It strikes me as safer than the garbage bag. I should get those detectors you put under the feet of the bed. However, my frame legs have pretty large casters. Will they fit in the contraption?
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 23 2011 14:19:15
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I have not bought climb ups yet...want to pay off my 2000 credit card bill for encAsements and other stuff first. They do make xl climb ups as well.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 23 2011 16:35:12
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Buggybumpers - 2 hours ago »
I don't want to be discouraging but three sprays are probably not going to do the job. I have had six and still have bugs, although I have never seen any anywhere except on my bed and then rarely. I have also seen some small bugs in my bathroom and kitchen but am not sure they were BBs. I know I must still have some [I hope not many] due to being bitten again and a little of their fecal matter. The worst of the initial infestation was inside my box spring and I have seen it written that this is common. The box spring and mattress were thorougly sprayed and then encased by me. Unfortunately, the box spring encasement got a small hole in it. I guess that started things all over again. You have to inspect the encasements often. I found that out. Since I have never seen in bugs in my closet or on my clothing, I wonder if I really have to ruin all my clothes by putting them in the dryer. The stuff I am using now doesn't fit me anymore, especially the pants. I brought a new pair of capris for summer and did wash them in hot water but hung them on my shower curtain rod to dry. I have never seen a bug inside my dresser drawers but took all the clothes out months ago and am living out of a garbage bag with a few clothes and linens. However, I saw an add on this site for BB-proof suitcase and clothes container and purchased that today. It strikes me as safer than the garbage bag. I should get those detectors you put under the feet of the bed. However, my frame legs have pretty large casters. Will they fit in the contraption?

What do you mean that three sprays won't do the job. OMG! I'm planning to move to an apartment with my mom and today had my fourth spraying of Suspend and the PCO told me that it was enough. I just don't want to take these things with me to a new apartment. Ugh!!
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 23 2011 17:26:41
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My own fight with bed bugs and nearly three years of watching these boards have convinced me of the following:

there is not now, and will never in our lifetimes be, one absolutely effective way of treating bed bugs that will completely eliminate infestations for every individual out there.

However, it is equally true that if used properly, any professional treatment protocol for bed bugs--chemical, heat, Vikane, steam, mechanical--can successfully eliminate bed bugs.

I get--goodness, do I vividly remember standing in my apartment in absolutely despair thinking that this would never, ever be over--I totally get that when you're in the throes of an infestation, or immediately following treatment when you're waiting to see if you're clear, it feels hopeless.

It can be very, very easy to fall into that pit of despair and be convinced that the method you've chosen (or, if like me, you rent, that you're stuck with because your landlord chose it) cannot possibly work. It can be even easier to be skeptical of your particular pest management professional. I suspect it's perfectly natural to second guess every decision you make. When you're sleep deprived, and your home has been invaded by vermin you're having trouble tracking down, it's a profound affront to your sense of stability, safety, and security.

But, chemical treatments alone--applied properly--can single-handedly eliminate a bed bug infestation. It may well take three or four treatment--even in a single family, detached home to eliminate all the bugs.

Heat treatment can also eliminate bed bugs. Long time readers know I'm a big fan of heat since I had insomnia before the bed bugs. (and let's be honest--bed bugs certainly don't help with insomnia)

But it's also not without risks. Several years after treatment, I've had problems with electrical outlets in my apartment--specifically those closest to where the ducts came in. It could be coincidence. The electrical work in my place was never good quality. (My building was likely built by the property's old owner Several outlets have had the polarities reversed, and some were missing grounding wires.)

While I would still choose heat over chemical for my particular situation, I've also come through the infestation more convinced than ever that paying for heat without confirmation that there are bed bugs is not a good idea.

I sympathize with Dcajv's situation; it must suck to have a significant other who is dismissive of your feelings about bed bugs, and that sucks. It really sucks to have to deal with that on top of dealing with bed bugs, but I'm not sure it's time for heat just yet. It's possible that there's a source of reintroduction of bugs that needs to be eliminated. For example, if bags of items have been Packtited without the thermometer inside the most densely packed part of the bag, that might be an area to look into.

Heat is expensive. It can cause damage, even if only mild damage that you're willing to tolerate. But it also will not prevent reinfestation if there's a source from which bugs are being reintroduced. And chemical treatment is much better at dealing with that than heat.

Again, pest control these days is about integrated pest management. It means that the process of figuring out how the pests operate, where they are coming from, and what can be done to make pesticides, dusts, and other tools more effective are as important as the application of them.

For that reason, no one solution works in every situation. And there is no one standard protocol for treatment that applies to every situation. I know a lot of us wish there were; after all, it would make it a lot easier to evaluate our individual PCOs. But, alas, the reason that there isn't a standard protocol we can measure a particular case against is because the treatment has to be adapted to the particulars of the infestation.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 23 2011 21:29:54
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…and bear in mind, most people with BB do whatever they need to do, move on and do not post here.
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Sat Apr 23 2011 21:57:03
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When the PC individual first came to my apartment [hired by the management], I was told by him that they do not recommend anything less than five treatments--and my infestation was light. As it turns out I got six. Today I put on the second encasement over the other one that got a little breach on the box spring with the help of my daughter. We inspected everything and only saw two tiny, very thin black things about the width of a human hair. I find it hard to believe they are any stage of a BB but I see them now and then. I sprayed them with alcohol and did the same to the bed frame part on which the box spring rests. Naturally, I am washing all the bedding right now. I live alone but care for my little granddaughter on weekends because my daughter has to work those days and cannot find anyone else to babysit on weekends. I am terrified that this problem will move to my daughter's apartment but she is a single parent who needs her well-paying job.

There are mysteries here for sure. Today I noticed a lot of white things like powder or sugar on my coffee table of dark wood. I easily cleaned them all off with a paper towel soaked in Pledge. But even though I have had my laptop professionally cleaned inside just recently and vacuum the visible parts frequently, myself, I see this same white stuff on it nearly everytime I take it out of the plastic container I keep it in. Fortunately its sides are rather high and slippery but the downside is the lid does not seal perfectly like Tupperware. I don't see any for sale around her but am thinking of looking online. Has anyone else had any experience with these white granules? I thought BB larvae was bigger than that and tended to stick. This stuff is not sticky but it feaks me out. Where does it come from? Now I thought perhaps that on the table might have been a residue from my last spraying, which included the sofa, but my laptop has certainly never been sprayed! I know I have a lot of questions but I don't know whom else to ask. The pest control was not hired by me and get right to work when they come like they are very busy every day--which I believe. It's all I can do to escape when they spray as I cannot stand what they use. I start wheezing right away, even when I come back after four or five hours. I am not young and have a heart condition, to begin with. The stress of all this is taking its toll in additon to the long hours I put in taking care of a very lively five-year-old. They say BBs don't kill you, but I'm not so certain. We have no way of knowing what having them has done to people who are not in good health.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 24 2011 1:38:31
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Buggybumpers said,

We inspected everything and only saw two tiny, very thin black things about the width of a human hair.

and

Today I noticed a lot of white things like powder or sugar on my coffee table of dark wood. I easily cleaned them all off with a paper towel soaked in Pledge. But even though I have had my laptop professionally cleaned inside just recently and vacuum the visible parts frequently, myself, I see this same white stuff on it nearly everytime I take it out of the plastic container I keep it in.

Buggybumpers--

Neither of these descriptions indicates bed bugs.

They are not black. Small black insects may be a type of mite. (If you can pick up samples on sticky clear packing tape, they can be identified by an entomologist.)

White dust or powder does not come from bed bugs.

I am wondering if you can tell us more about how bed bugs were diagnosed in your case. Who identified them and what did they see?

(I know you may have said this on another thread, but I hope you can explain again if so. Thanks!)
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 24 2011 2:46:12
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I don't mind explaining anything--can't go to sleep until the wee hours, anyway, even though I am physically and mentally exhausted today. This is a very interesting and informative site. Around last December I started waking up with very itchy lesions that looked like hives. Call me naive but I never suspected BBs. Even my doctor thought they were hives. But I became suspicious and inspected my bed--saw nothing, not even the black fecal spots. But one inevitable morning a bug walked across my sheet and I grabbed a tissue and squished it. It was full of blood. That's how I learned the truth and, after some research online, I checked inside my box spring, saw a few more bugs and even larvae. I sprayed all that with alcohol and immediately notified the manager of the highrise in which I live. She sent a PCO. I really do know what BBs are supposed to look like as I have seen plenty of pictures online. After the sprayings began I did not notice any more of what I thought BBs in their various stages should look like. Nobody else on my floor has complained of having them so far, although there were some infested units on at least one other floor not near mine due to a tenant having purchased a "used" bed, getting bugs and then giving away his stuff to other tenants before fleeing in a panic. Then I encased my mattress and box spring. After that I noticed nothing for a little while but then some other tiny black very skinny bugs began to be seen'in my bed--those that I see to this day. I captured some on scotch tape but the PCO was unable to identify them. According to our manager, the samples were sent to a local university but nothing has been heard yet. This was weeks ago so I am not hopeful. Unfortunately, these skinny little black critters bite, too, and in broad daylight. Their bites feel like a sting--unlike the BBs which you can't feel at first. When I look at them, they never move and my daughter, who once had a flea infestation on account of a cat a long time ago, told me they were probably not fleas. I have no pets. I have noticed these little black bugs biting me from inside my clothes. I have been living out of a garbage bag but now I am thinking transferring them to that from the dryer may not be good enough and so have bought something else to store them in. Unfortunately, the water in our building is not very hot and the dryers may not be, either. They turned down the water temperature with the explanation someone might accidentally scald himself but I don't know. Maybe for their own sake the management should provide hotter water again. Killing bugs in bedding and clothes are important, obviously. Otherwise I may have to go to a laundry. However, a couple of days ago I noticed a small amount of black fecal matter on the side of a sheet but it was still too much to come from one of those skinny bugs--so it looked like bedbugs were back. So today my daughter helped me put a second encasement on my box spring as my frame had made a small hole in the first one. We also put duct tape over any little projections from the inside of the frame in an attempt to minimage the likelihood of more damage to the new encasement. I think I will try to find a better frame now, too. The one I have is probably a cheap one. Anyway, there's only metal--no headboard or anything and the bed is away from the wall. I have had a lot of problems with my health this past year and haven't gotten out much but at least I enjoyed much nice cozy apartment, even bought a lot of new furniture before I got the problem--but that was last summer and I didn't get bitten until winter so I don't think I got any bugs that way. Now I wish I hadn't bought anything since I may have to get rid of it all if this keeps up. I cannot take living like this much longer with two kinds of bugs [at least] and no idea why. I am a clean person, bathe every day and make sure my space is clean and uncluttered. Even so, I have already thrown out a lot of stuff just so there'll be less for anything to hide in. I'm no youngster so feel I have earned the right to speak my mind: I have read here several people admitting to being messy and living in clutter. That's just laziness and there's no excuse for able-bodied people living like that. I don't even know how you can look at it but unless you start cleaning and tossing out, your chances of getting rid of the BBs are about zero unless you opt for the expensive thermal method. These bugs are hiders. That's what they do best. The less stuff to hide in the better. I am meticulous and I am having trouble. Sorry to preach but people are so used to their own living conditions sometimes that they don't realize how bad it is. Throw it out. If you haven't used it lately you'll never miss it.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 24 2011 11:05:39
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That is so strange.....I had a large armoire in my bedrom which I steam cleaned (dry vapor steam) thoroughly twice and sprayed but when I went to vacuum it after that a nymph came running out of on of the drawers and the draft that comes out of the back of the vacuum cleaner blew white powdery stuff out from under the bottom of one of the drawers. My vacuum cleaner has a hepa filter so it wasn't from passing through the vacuum it was the air blowing it out of the furniture. All of my bedroom furniture was disposed of after that.

I had not used DE or anything on it that would produce that powdery substance. It wasn't really like household dust (which is mostly tiny skin flakes) either. I also had those small round white balls and black flecks in my bed which have gradually disappeared. Whatever else I had in addition to bed bugs is puzzling me. I'm thinking some kind of mites. I didn't ever see skinny black bugs though.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 24 2011 11:45:31
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It doesn't look to me like just plain household dust, either. I saw it on the stuff that is still inside my smaller dresser drawers [no clothes in there for ages!] like sunglasses, etc. I have a nice, French provincial dresser, very old, and hate to get rid of it, an antique credenza and a likewise chair with a needlepoint seat, all things I have collected over a lifetime. Like you, I don't think I can save the dresser because I don't feel confident in putting any clothes back in it and wonder if I ever will. Still, it doesn't make sense to me to get a new one while I still have bugs, either. Reading the success stories here have made me even more despondent because so far, all have depended upon extreme measures. Nobody has said that they had a certain amount of sprays, isolated their bed, and then--eureka. One girl moved out with scarcely anything and one man was lucky he didn't burn down his house with a DIY heat-up. Others have used a lot of DE which others yet here warned was dangerous to their health. I don't know what to tell you. All my bedding was in the wash last evening and this morning I still woke up with a weird little bug for company. I have read here and there on the web that BBs bring other bugs with them who kind of "hitch a ride". I can't vouch for the truth of that by any means, but judging from what I have seen
here in my own home, it seems to be the truth.
bestbugdeadbug

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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 24 2011 14:56:36
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Hey Buggybumpers,
Have you tried taking apart your bed? Sometimes they live between the joints. Also, if people just want to get rid of bedbugs in their clothes, Richard Naylor suggested putting them in your bathtub full of hot water (it should feel slightly hot to the touch at least). The hot water penetrates much better than air. It would work for comforters too. Just pop them in the bathtub and thoroughly stir them around and submerge them to make sure there are no air pockets, leave them in there for about an hour, and then pop them in the dryer. Should kill everything. The problem with some washers and dryers is that the temperature doesn't get hot enough for long enough.

Good luck
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 24 2011 18:38:39
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Could the dust be something the pco or someone else applied, now rubbing off surfaces? If dusts were applied, you probably should not be vacuuming them up.

Or, could it be surface finish reacting to something that was applied?
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 25 2011 1:09:56
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bbgirl - 13 hours ago »
I also had those small round white balls and black flecks in my bed which have gradually disappeared. Whatever else I had in addition to bed bugs is puzzling me. I'm thinking some kind of mites. I didn't ever see skinny black bugs though.

bbgirl,

Like cilecto, I wondered if the dust could be related to something a professional applied, like a dust.

I said to Buggybumpers that "small black insects may be a kind of mite." However, while I am not an expert, I have never heard of "round white balls" or "black flecks" being associated with mites.

It is very unusual to have bed bugs and mites at the same time. It can happen, but is not common. Sometimes when dealing with a problem like bed bugs, we become very attuned to other bugs or objects we find in our surroundings, noticing things which were there before but unnoticed. I would caution you against becoming concerned about other issues besides bed bugs unless you have definitive evidence.

Buggybumpers has bugs s/he can send off for identification. Only then will s/he know if they are mites (and what kind) or something else.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 25 2011 1:15:47
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bestbugdeadbug - 10 hours ago »
Hey Buggybumpers,
Have you tried taking apart your bed? Sometimes they live between the joints. Also, if people just want to get rid of bedbugs in their clothes, Richard Naylor suggested putting them in your bathtub full of hot water (it should feel slightly hot to the touch at least). The hot water penetrates much better than air. It would work for comforters too. Just pop them in the bathtub and thoroughly stir them around and submerge them to make sure there are no air pockets, leave them in there for about an hour, and then pop them in the dryer. Should kill everything. The problem with some washers and dryers is that the temperature doesn't get hot enough for long enough.
Good luck

Really? "Hot water in a bathtub" is not necessarily going to be hot enough (for long enough) to kill bed bugs once it hits them.

Most dryers in North America at least do get to killing temperatures, and it's my understanding that a dry item in a hot dryer is going to need less time to kill bed bugs than a wet item in the same dryer.

I have huge respect for Richard's research but perhaps there was more to the advice he gave than this?
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 25 2011 1:19:19
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Buggybumpers - 13 hours ago »
I have read here and there on the web that BBs bring other bugs with them who kind of "hitch a ride". I can't vouch for the truth of that by any means, but judging from what I have seen
here in my own home, it seems to be the truth.

Buggybumpers,

I have seen at least ONE forums user speculate that this is so, but I have read nothing about this from any source that knew it to be true or showed any evidence it was true.

Do you have any sources for this idea?

From what you describe, you do not have any evidence that this other insect came hitchhiking to your home on a bed bug. I would caution you against jumping to conclusions like that.

What you do know is that a black insect is present which you say is biting or stinging you. It could be fleas or some kind of biting mite.

If you can get a sample on sticky tape, you can get someone to identify it for you. (I know you've done that -- any idea how long it will take? If you don't know, another source may be faster.) If you can get a close-up photo, people can identify that here.

Fleas can also be detected using a cheap plugin flea trap (from a hardware store).
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 25 2011 11:45:32
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I found a bug in my closet last week that looked dead....hours later it was moving around its zip lock bag. Here are some pictures...not the greatest....if anyone wants to take a look to confirm it's a bed bug. We have had positive identification for bed bugs by our PCO but this one looks different. It had something oozing out of it's butt. I read bed bugs excrete a sticky substance when they are frightened? Who knows. This one looks like it is shedding its skin. I am new to uploading pics so let me know if this doesn't work:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50000783@N08/
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 25 2011 12:04:25
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Experts may be able to tell you confidently whether or not it's a bb based on these photos, but I shouldn't try to.

If you still have the camera handy and the specimen, can you take a photo with a penny or ruler or something alongside the specimen for definite size reference; and also can you try taking a photo even closer, possibly using a magnifying glass of some sort.
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Apr 26 2011 2:16:49
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I too found little black bugs on my old bed (infested with BB), they looked like a little black dot and at first I thought it was a fecal stain, and as I shone light on it, it started moving very quickly and disappeared into the corner of the mattress (my old mattress was a wooden mattress with "corner protection", not very common here in the states). I remember thinking to myself, "wow I didn't know bed bugs could be that small". Only later on did I realize that the little black insect was not BB but probably some kind of mites. I recently moved and am still having itchy symptoms, even though I have not found any sign of BBs. Maybe it's the mites biting this time? No sure.
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 27 2011 22:17:23
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Today was my fourth treatment. I am hoping we are nearing the end but somehow doubt it. Anyway, I bought climb ups for 5 beds and 2 sofas and passive bb alerts. Where is the best place to put the passive bb alerts if you are using climb ups or doesn't it matter.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 13:13:36
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Dcajv - 3 days ago »
I found a bug in my closet last week that looked dead....hours later it was moving around its zip lock bag. Here are some pictures...not the greatest....if anyone wants to take a look to confirm it's a bed bug. We have had positive identification for bed bugs by our PCO but this one looks different. It had something oozing out of it's butt. I read bed bugs excrete a sticky substance when they are frightened? Who knows. This one looks like it is shedding its skin. I am new to uploading pics so let me know if this doesn't work:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50000783@N08/

I asked Lou Sorkin about this photo. He said that while the image was dark, he was almost positive it is a carpet beetle.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 13:17:23
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Dcajv - 14 hours ago »
Where is the best place to put the passive bb alerts if you are using climb ups or doesn't it matter.

David Cain invented the BBAlert Passive and does not recommend using them WITH ClimbUps. They work in really different ways.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 15:09:07
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Ok I have them so if there's anywhere I should be using them let me know. Today, my pco that treats the outside of the house was over picking up a dead mouse in the attic. I was talking to him in my kitchen. My 5 year old who was on the ground playing with the dog says mom whats that...there's a tiny red dot crawling...the pco gets it on a glue board and says it's definitely a bed bug. In my kitchen? The pco sprayed in there during the past 4 treatments at some point. I can't do this anymore. What now? Do we just keep doing the chemical treatments? My husband still refuses to pay 7000 plus dollars for heat. Help me. This was so small. What do I do with my 2 dogs. They are on k9 advantix.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 17:25:17
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I am sure that I have more than one kind of infestion--one being those little black dots, except that I haven't seen one actually move yet. I am at my wits end here like so many of the rest of you. I am as itchy with bites as ever except that I don't seem to react as badly as I did six months ago when my bites tended to look like hives. Anyway, I have had six sprays, my mattress and box spring are encased. I saw a little fecal matter on a sheet and some husks that may be casings. The management company of my building [we at least have an on-site manager that you can go to] payed for all the sprayings and uses one company exclusively. I have purchased the BugZip luggage and clothing encasement [large], which came today and now I am taking all the stuff I have been using for clothing and bedding out of the garbage bag, washing it again for good measure, and will place it in the BugZip. Even though my sofa has been sprayed a couple of times, I lifted the cushions today and noticed the first BB I ever did in this furniture item. I was brown, shaped like a tiny apple seed but dead. Then I vacuumed the sofa as well as I could, even though, with my bad heart, I am not supposed to lift heavy stuff--so didn't try to pull it away from the wall. As far as I know, the PCO never pulled it away from the wall, either. BTW, I have never seen any bugs on any walls in my apartment so far. The only other BBs I have seen in 6 months were a few in the bed.

I bought Craig's BB detector because, after six sprays, I don't think the manager will believe I am still infested unless I have some trapped bugs to show. But, really, I don't want anymore sprays because obviously they have eradicated nothing. I saw the PCO coming into the building today to do some other area and I asked if they ever did steaming. He said "no". I just don't know what to do next. There is a francise in our area who does the freezing method but I have seen that people here aren't too sold on that. Another PCO in a different part of our state [about an hour away] apparently has a canine detector and does the steaming. If I see any bugs in Craig's detector, I will call them at my own expense or move. I can't see myseld steaming the place on my own. If I move, I won't take any furniture with me. I can't go through this a second time. The main questions in my mind is why the BBs would go into Craig's detector with me there for bait, instead. I never did have anything but a light [but obviously persistent] infestation. Also, under the circumstances, why should I worry about the clothes hanging in my closet so much, ruin them all by washing in hot water and drying in a hot dryer? Believe it or not, most women's clothing that is not polyester is not meant to be washed that way. It all shrinks. What I mean is, my BR is small and the closet is not far from the bed--but why would the bugs hide in there when they would be better off with the bed where they could get a meal? I don't even know how bugs from around the room could even get into my bed with the sticky tape and vaseline around the legs. Unless they dropped from the ceiling or hitched a ride on me.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 17:59:03
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Sorry--I meant that I have ordered David "Cain's" monitor. I used to know a guy named David Craig so got a bit confused.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon May 9 2011 16:27:14
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I placed a bb passive alert on the wooden headboard of my sleigh bed near the mattress and bow I can't get it off. Anyone have any experience removing bb passive alerts.
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 10 2011 12:23:47
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We are going on vacation at the end of June. We have had 4 chemical treatments and a sniffing dog is coming next week to "clear" us. I just got bit yesterday so unfortunately I think the dog will alert.

Regardless, we are going on vacation at the end of June with family to the beach and staying in a house. I will wash and dry all our clothes and pack them in zip locks to take with us. Any other suggestions to avoid infesting the people we are vactioning with? They are aware of the situation and no one seems to care but me.

The other question or idea I have is to place Nuvan Pest Strips all over our house for the week we are on vacation and remove them before we enter our home. Is this a crazy idea or does an experienced PCO out there think it's a good idea?
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 10 2011 21:19:35
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scaredsilly,

Did you leave the Ziplocs open in the Packtite? This is the suggestion I've heard from others.

I think the temperature at the center of the items in the bag should be monitored, the bag should not be packed too tightly, and you should definitely get the temperature for 120 F for an hour.

I'm not an expert on Packtiting, but I am not sure about your advice to move the thermometer around during treatment.

To maintain appropriate temperatures and ensure the killing temperature is reached at the core, I think it may be better to leave it at the center of the items, and not disturb the process or the temperature by opening the Packtite and adjusting it.

Sorry, been offline for a while trying to catch my breath. The XL ziplock was open and not fully packed. Had about 3 pair sweats. I put the probe in the center and propped open the zip end with a plastic hanger. Only heated for 1 hour after reaching 120. Zipped closed and then used a shirt out of that bag a few weeks later. After about 3 min found something running around inside and got bitten. Needless to say, I no longer packtight anything in a bag at all. I let items run for a min of 4 hours after 120, and some items I run for 8 hours. I don't reuse XL ziplocks anymore. My suggestion regarding the moving of the probe was to run the unit for at least an hour after reaching 120, and then reinsert the probe to a different area and run for more time. If in fact 1 hour at 120 is supposed to kill the beasts, then taking a minimal quick break after that time to move the stuff around and restart seamed like a good idea. But, again, now I don't packtight inside of ziplocks so I'm no expert.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu May 19 2011 12:23:57
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I thought my nightmare was almost over and then last night I found 2 red nymphs. One in each of my bottom bed leg Climb ups. I removed them with a qtip dipped in alcohol and bagged them. The last time my pco was here was 3 1/2 weeks ago and at that point he treated 4 times. He's coming Monday and the dog who was coming to see if we were clear is also coming. Hopefully, the dog can help target where to treat. What is the pco doing wrong? My husband still refuses to do thermal treatments. I was just starting to feel like this might be over soon. So paralyzed right now.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu May 19 2011 12:27:08
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To make matters worse, my brother called me this morning with questions. He woke up with 3 mosquito like bites on his belly and bites on his ankles. He has not seen any bugs or signs
So is just keeping an eye on things and spraying his room which I told him not to do.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu May 19 2011 16:15:08
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My PCO looked at the bugs under a microscope and said they are 100% clover mites? really? what would clover mites be doing hanging out in my climb ups?
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu May 19 2011 20:40:38
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Dcajv - 4 hours ago »
My PCO looked at the bugs under a microscope and said they are 100% clover mites? really? what would clover mites be doing hanging out in my climb ups?

I don't have bedbugs and never have, but I had a healthy enough paranoia about them after they were found in some other units in my building that I bought Climbups for my bed. The Climbups do catch other insects-- whatever might be hanging around. I think mine caught a cockroach nymph and some other tiny things that I knew were not bedbug related (from having learned so much on this site) so I didn't stress out or go to get them identified.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon May 23 2011 16:43:36
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Today my husband's business and our home were k9 cleared. Almost 3 months later. I am praying its really over. Scared to feel good or celebrate yet but wanted to post an update.
BC BEDBUG EXPERT

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue May 24 2011 17:32:29
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You asked - Is this still very normal to see bugs before the 3rd treatment?
With pesticide I believe the numbers are 68% of the time you will need at least three treatments. This is because the pesticide does not kill the eggs. With Heat Treatment 97% of the time it works the first time.

Hope this helps,
Tina
BC BEDBUG EXPERT
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 25 2011 0:30:27
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> With Heat Treatment 97% of the time it works the first time.

Considering the price and the wear to the home it out to work 100% the first and only time.
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed May 25 2011 1:39:54
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BC Bed Bug Expert,

I appreciate your honesty as we often hear people who do structural heat talk about it being 100% effective.

Do you mean it is 97% effective when done properly? Meaning that 3 out of 100 consumers will think everything went fine but will still have bed bugs?

The problem with structural heat not working the first time is that I understand many firms guarantee this work for a month.

If most but not all bed bugs are killed, then a person who does not react to bed bug bites may not notice they still have bed bugs until after a month has passed.

I understand that, faced with a customer who has bed bugs "again" a month or more later, PCOs may assume they were reinfested. However, they could simply have had a not 100% effective treatment.
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu May 26 2011 11:05:25
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Absolutely dying to know how you are doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please post soon. Good or bad.

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