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100% Effective Bed Bug Eradication

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  1. Gary Douglas

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 17:48:09
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    There is a GREEN, non-toxic solution. US Patent 7,690,148 B2 issued April 6, 2010 to Devid E. Hedman, CEO of ThermaPureHeat in Ventura, California. The patent has been defended against infrigement and the technology is now available to qualified licensees.

    What's critical is the methodology for Structural Pasteurization developed over years and more than 100,000 eradication projects. It's not just applying heat to a structure. The company has a 300 page training manual and requires licensees to attend a week long training at its headquarters. It works and won't poison the eco-system or your kids.

  2. KillerQueen

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 19:03:45
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    huh?

  3. Gary Douglas

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 19:35:31
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    This is real, it works. Why would a patent be issued by the United States Patent Office and the court affirm it otherwise? Why would The Wall Street Journal and Nightline report on it if it wasn't for real?

  4. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 19:40:26
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    It is a fact known since the early 1900's that BBS have a achilles heel of heat.

    Thermapure tries to patent this weakness so no one can devise a method of exploiting it without them getting paid.

    Don't even get me started.

    Jim

  5. jonathap

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 20:40:08
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    Dammit, our intellectual property system is really screwed up sometimes. This should not be patentable.

  6. KillerQueen

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 20:51:45
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    Maybe I should patent myself since I have worked behind failed heat treatments =)

    And I use the big nasty chemicals that have some of the best treatment results in the industry My chemicals are more "green" then all the necessary machinery to do a heat treatment. Sorry ... was riding my high horse while I read this.

  7. Gary Douglas

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 21:04:30
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    Tell that to the hundreds of folks that have had their homes ruined, pets killed and kids made sick or even killed (last case in Utah in February) by pesticide companies that improperly apply pesticides or try to use heat without licensing the patented methodology and either don't get the job done (even though they charge the customer for it) or cause damage in their untrained attempt. To perfect "Structural Pasteurization" , which is what ThermaPureHeat is, it took years of research a nd literally thousands of trials. We would never have any new life saving pharmaceuticals, or much else worthwhile, if risk taking inventors had to give it away.

  8. Gary Douglas

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 21:20:11
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    Either you believe in the rule of law or you don't. Either you're in the real world or you are not. All the wishful thinking or pretending that using another's patented technology and methodology without paying for it isn't stealing doesn't change the fact that it is stealing. Worse, it's cheating the customer or harming them financially or healthwise.

  9. KillerQueen

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 21:23:21
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    Key word being"improperly". I use less product then you could possibly imagine and went all of 2010 with 97-98% of every case cleared with 1 treatment. I do a mandatory 2 treatments and didn't have to visit anyone a third time the entire year.

    As for toxicity, common, I know the fear monger thing is a great selling tool for heat or anything else that uses a non chemical approach .. but I also know a teaspoon of salt is more toxic to us then the products I use. People don't even know I treated their place once I leave. Unless they notice the chair in the corner was moved 6 inches to the right.

    I have thousands upon thousands of treatments under my belt since 100% of my business is dedicated to bed bugs ... And everyone is still walking and doing just fine =)

    Keep in mind there are impostors in every profession. Its buyer beware in pest control, just like anything else.

  10. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 21:27:52
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    Gary Douglas - 5 minutes ago  » 
    Either you believe in the rule of law or you don't. Either you're in the real world or you are not. All the wishful thinking or pretending that using another's patented technology and methodology without paying for it isn't stealing doesn't change the fact that it is stealing. Worse, it's cheating the customer or harming them financially or healthwise.

    Hi Gary,

    I am confused by your initial post as well as this one.

    Is the initial post above an advertisement for your company?

    Are you implying (in your most recent post right before mine) that someone here is using your company's technology and not paying for it?

    I am just confused as to your rhetorical purpose and intended audience.

    You and KillerQueen can argue about who's greener, but at the end of the day, in my opinion, you're providing quite different services to different populations, and that argument isn't going to get very far.

    Thanks!

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  11. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 21:32:47
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    Oh, wait a minute -- I just clicked your username link, Gary. You're in PR.

    I am still perplexed about the questions asked in my previous post.

  12. Gary Douglas

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 21:44:03
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    I agree

  13. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 4 2011 22:26:28
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    We don't like salesmen around here.

    You want to help with BB advice without pushing your product, fine. Wanna pimp for Thermapure find someplace else.

    Jim

  14. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 1:01:24
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    Since none of the tags match, is it constructive to provide a link to the following thread on Thermapure Heat...

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/thermapure-heat

    ...from October 1-3, 2010 with 11 posts, which I found via Google.

    In that thread, nobugs had pointed out at...

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/thermapure-heat#post-87415

    ...that the topic was getting dispersed among too many threads, so I hope I'm not aggravating that with this post. But I did find it helpful reviewing that thread to get some context as to what this current thread is about, and to see that it's not a topic new to bedbugger.com which I thought at first it was.

    But now I understand, as nobugs pointed out, that Gary Douglas is a public relations guy...

    see http://douglasstrategic.com/index.aspx which, at least, he honestly disclosed in his profile

    ...so he started the thread as a promotion for Thermapure. Maybe he was sincerely unaware of the earlier posts; otherwise, readers here would have certainly preferred that he mention those, along with his own affiliation, in his original post starting this thread.

  15. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 4:18:44
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    KillerQueen - 6 hours ago  » 
    Key word being"improperly". I use less product then you could possibly imagine and went all of 2010 with 97-98% of every case cleared with 1 treatment. I do a mandatory 2 treatments and didn't have to visit anyone a third time the entire year.
    As for toxicity, common, I know the fear monger thing is a great selling tool for heat or anything else that uses a non chemical approach .. but I also know a teaspoon of salt is more toxic to us then the products I use. People don't even know I treated their place once I leave. Unless they notice the chair in the corner was moved 6 inches to the right.
    I have thousands upon thousands of treatments under my belt since 100% of my business is dedicated to bed bugs ... And everyone is still walking and doing just fine =)
    Keep in mind there are impostors in every profession. Its buyer beware in pest control, just like anything else.

    This thread, "100% Effective Bed Bug Eradication", actually should have been about KillerQueen!

    KQ, you know what – we all need you to become a *trainer* of PCO's nationwide and/or worldwide!

    You get 100% rave reviews uncontested so we need you to replicate that!

    If you could endow all PCO's with your skills then the imminent bed bug Götterdämmerung (that's German for cataclysm, apocalypse, etc.) this summer and following could be largely averted.

    It's a shame and not fair there's just one of you.

    On every job you do, you should have at least two apprentices with you.

    How about it?

  16. so unsettling

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 9:19:55
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    Killer Queen--you are really claiming that you have the answer for a world-wide problem that is driving everyone crazy and ruining people's lives. Please do share. What the hell do you use? I know you will say that it's not the chemical, but how it's applied. Maybe some of us can figure that out. I mean, seriously, many here have a GREAT incentive to LEARN.

    Gone in one treatment. Boggles the mind, that you can do this so easily while apartments all over the world remain infested for years and years.

  17. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 10:28:55
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    Oops, my fault, homage to KQ is off-topic since this thread started out being about Thermapure.

    So I'm going to repost on http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/killerqueen-fan-club. Maybe so unsettling would like to do the same.

    See also nobugs' blog post at http://bedbugger.com/2009/01/04/killerqueen-speaks-over-at-new-york-vs-bed-bugs.

    Note also many other threads on KQ via http://bedbugger.com/forum/tags/killerqueen.

  18. so unsettling

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 10:34:39
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    What's your fault? Threads meander. It was just a response. There really is only one topic at this website.

    I have read 100s of posts by KQ. And will continue to. But I don't join fan clubs:)

  19. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 14:25:13
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    KillerQueen has a lot of fans among people who've hired him. I think it's fine for people to review a service they've actually used.

    I don't want to take anything away from these reputable PCOs who have well-deserved reputations and whose participation here is very much welcomed and appreciated, but sometimes this kind of "fan club" hype seems to lead to newcomers here bemoaning the fact that they don't have "A KillerQueen" or "A David Cain" where they live, so they must do their own bed bug treatment.

    I think that's the wrong approach entirely.

    There are actually lots of pest control professionals who can do a good job and get rid of your bed bugs. The work takes knowledge and experience and diligence and time. You can learn a lot about how well someone is going to do by interviewing a few different companies.

    Questions to ask can be found in this FAQ.

    Note that it was compiled in 2006 when there were a lot fewer pest control pros with extensive bed bug experience. And I am taking suggestions for updates/changes/additions to that FAQ in this thread.

  20. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 14:45:57
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    Getting back to the original post here, I will note this is the second time in one week in which a PR person has apparently come on the forums on behalf of one firm or another.

    The first time, we were all invited to something by accident.

    Now we're getting a statement about the licensing of a product, a propos of I-am-not-sure-what.

  21. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 19:40:27
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    I'm assuming this is some legal thing that your client is periodically obligated to do in support of it s intellectual property privileges. Like those ads people take out about estates or name changes (like when I had my name shortened from Cimex Lectularius).

    Note that you are in a forum in which both industry pros and people struggling with bed bugs. I'm not a PR pro or an IP lawyer, but I understand there are different messages for different audiences. Pfizer makes sildenafil (Viagra), which offers certain, uh, benefits to the consumer. Viagra is also patented* and trademarked: Pfizer will rightfully prosecute anyone who infringes on either. Two different messages, two different audiences. There's no mention of litigation in consumer-facing media.

    Apple makes cool devices at reasonable prices. It is also relentless in going after anyone who compromises their intellectual property. But, you'll never see the second fact mentioned in ads for their products. Apple can also get away with it because it's carefully cultivated it s client base and kept them very happy.

    Most posts offering products or services on this site get deleted. I have a hunch yours was allowed to stay because a significant number of people have come through here who have benefited from your client's product, ie, you have decent goodwill. I hope you and your client appreciate that.

    Best of luck to you.

    *(Note that Pfizer has a patent on a specific chemical. It does not hold a patent on every method of providing those benefits with a pill. In fact several companies produce products that are chemically close, e.g., tadenafil, vardenafil.)

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  22. healthimpacted

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 5 2011 21:22:11
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    Heat may be effective if applied properly, but there are things that cannot withstand heat and need to be removed prior to treatment, and then could re-introduce bugs once brought back in. I have bags of stuff I haven't opened yet following a failed heat treatment (I don't believe my PCO used this product but their own technique). Therefore, how can it be called 100% effective? Yes, it may kill all the bugs in the structure but you may not have solved the customer's problem. Heat needs to be part of a more comprehensive approach. Pesticides can endanger humans. I had bad reactions to them, ending up in the ER twice (didn't realize it was the pesticides the first time as it was a couple days later, it was hours the 2nd time). Pesticides require me to be the bait, but I can't be in the house due to the pesticides.

  23. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 6 2011 1:50:15
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    cilecto - 6 hours ago  » 

    Most posts offering products or services on this site get deleted. I have a hunch yours was allowed to stay because a significant number of people have come through here who have benefited from your client's product, ie, you have decent goodwill. I hope you and your client appreciate that.

    It's kind of been allowed to stay up so far because, frankly, I am still not sure what it is, or why it's here, or (for reasons you delineate so well) who its target audience is.

    This confusion on my part has nothing to do with the services or company per se, except to the extent that I am not sure why we're being given this information, in this form, in this thread.

  24. BBGen0cide

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 6 2011 18:52:31
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    What you have to understand about Killer Queen is:

    #1: He is not lazy.
    #2: He is thorough.
    #3: He Knows all kinds of tricks.
    #4: He is a good person that puts his clients bug problem above his profit margins.

    From what I have read on this forum and from his interviews, I was able to put together the list above.

    What most of the PCOs are notorious for is PRAY AND SPRAY, GALLONS AND GALLONS of Pesticides on the baseboards and no where else and maybe spray some gentrol on the bed frame.

    I was on the no chemical treatments because I bought into the green thing without knowing what in the hell I was talking about. I agree with KQ that the food we eat daily is probably more toxic than the amounts of products he uses on his jobs.

  25. KillerQueen

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 6 2011 18:59:58
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    Guys, Nobugs is right.

    Trust me, I'm not the only guy in NYC, or the country for that matter, solving Bed Bug problems. I'm good at what I do but so are many others.

    You're always going to hear about bad companies. Most people who deal with this, don't come and post success stories once their problem is resolved. Maybe 3% of my clients have posted stories here, and while I'm thankful, it shouldn't make you think I'm the only cure.

    I jumped on the original poster because the title of the thread hit me the wrong way. Heat works and is an option for people. Chemical works and is an option for people, etc., etc, etc,.
    There is no garden variety treatment, we need options. One should not bad mouth the other, and certainly not use fear to sell their product.

    As I said above, I'm a guy in the room who is dedicated to solving the problem as quickly as possible. But I'm not alone, there are good companies out there with great employees just like me. You need to research before you hire anyone. Most people panic then react. A normal response when you find bugs in your bed I would think. But that is why you hear horror stories, more so then success.

  26. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 6 2011 20:31:16
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    Thanks, KillerQueen.

    BBGenOCide,

    I recall you mentioning that you were doing your own treatment because you could not find anyone capable locally. Since you PM'd me your location, I have now found some local recommendations for both heat and traditional treatments. I will send you a PM.

    These are not my recommendations, and so I can't personally endorse them, but they come from a trusted source in your state who really knows bed bugs.

    As I said, too often, people give up on finding someone locally because they don't have a KillerQueen or a David Cain, and this is a big mistake.

    Even a less talented and knowledgeable PCO is probably going to have a heck of a lot more bed bug knowledge and experience than those of us who have done a bit of reading. You can probably screen out obviously bad choices with some questions.

    I don't know what line of work you're in, but think about it that way: should people walk in after reading a few websites and articles and start trying to do your job well? (Keep in mind that bed bugs are one of the more difficult pest control jobs.) Whether you're an experienced writer, surgeon, teacher, dental hygienist, or plumber, most of us would say no to that.

  27. Gary Douglas

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 7 2011 10:19:17
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    Here's the way it works for people with closed minds: If you can't refute the facts, attack the messager. FACTS ARE STUBBORN THINGS. THERMAPUREHEAT WORKS AND IS PATENTED.

  28. buggyinsocal

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 7 2011 11:26:15
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    Any kind of properly done heat treatment--whether it comes from Thermapure or another provider--can work. I should know. I had heat treatment on my apartment for my infestation. I'm a big fan of the process.

    (Although I have been having some electrical problems in my apartment lately--in the outlets closest to where the ducts brought the heat in from the propane heater. The apartment is old and was never properly wired, but, still, I have to wonder if long term that may be an effect for people who had heat treatment.)

    However, as big a fan as I am of heat treatment for bed bugs --in a Packtite, in thermal, in your own dryer--I have a very bad taste in my mouth from some of what I've seen from Thermapure since I was treated.

    Also, even as a super crunchy type who prefers to use as few pesticides as possible, I have to acknowledge the reality: very few landlords will be willing to go with a more expensive-seeming treatment like heat. (It's important to note that using chemical pesticides and dusts is often not any more expensive than thermal or Vikane *when you add up the total costs in laundry, dry cleaning, and prep work for the person with bugs*. Since landlords pass that cost on to their tenants, it's almost always cheaper for landlords to go with chemical.)

    Given that bed bugs have become a substantial problem, it seems wrong of me to stand over here and hold out only for non-pesticide based methods to eradicate bugs. Ethically, it seems to me that I also have to advocate for research into more effective pesticides for people who don't have access to thermal.

    Sure, I'm a big fan of thermal, and if (heaven forbid) I ever get bed bugs again? I will totally think of thermal first.

    In my case, it was 100% effective with one treatment, but I live in a multi-unit building, and if all my adjacent neighbors hadn't cooperated, my outcome might have been different. For that reason, any one size fits all, silver-bullet-style approach is something we should all be skeptical of. There is the right treatment for a given situation; not one right treatment that is equally effective in all scenarios.

    But leaping to the conclusion that pesticides kill thousands while thermal is safe and awesome is a bit reductionistic. Some people have been harmed by improperly done thermal just as some people have been harmed by improperly applied pesticides.

    Anybody who tries to sing the praises of one without acknowledging the limitations of the other isn't ever going to come across as terribly credible in my estimation.

  29. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 7 2011 11:34:33
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    -I have a very bad taste in my mouth from some of what I've seen from Thermapure since I was treated.

    Yep they are not making themselves look good with crap like the OP is spewing.

    Can they patent their specific process or equipment they designed, absolutely. Can they patent the BBs thermal deathpoint? No but they act like they figured it out not the scientists in the late 19th and early 20th century.

    You used their name so they probably want a royalty from you.

    Jim

  30. Gary Douglas

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 7 2011 12:21:48
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    Heat is effective to eradicate bedbugs, that's a fact. But plenty of people have suffered the consequences of improperly applied heat. There is a lot more to it than you might think. You could say you got rid of the bedbugs in a structure if it burned to the ground and, in fact, there are plenty of examples of exactly that happening.

    The reason ThermaPureHeat was granted a patent is that it has an effective methodology that won't harm the structure, pets or people. The methodology was developed over an extended time period and used in literally thousands of projects. It's been proven scientifically which is a lot more than can be said for other unlicensed heat treatments.

    BTW, I can't help but notice that I'm the only one using my real name, not hiding behind a pseudonym.

  31. Nobugsonme

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    Mon Mar 7 2011 14:37:42
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    Gary Douglas - 4 hours ago  » 
    Here's the way it works for people with closed minds: If you can't refute the facts, attack the messager. FACTS ARE STUBBORN THINGS. THERMAPUREHEAT WORKS AND IS PATENTED.

    Hi Gary,

    I do not doubt that ThermaPure Heat works and I have recommended it as one of the heat treatment options to many people. I also have no doubt about the company's patent on its processes.

    I should also be fair in mentioning that there are other heat treatment technologies which I believe can be applied properly and work well.

    Can I ask what prompted your initial post above?

    As I originally responded to you above,

    I am confused by your initial post as well as this one.

    Is the initial post above an advertisement for your company?

    Are you implying (in your most recent post right before mine) that someone here is using your company's technology and not paying for it?

    I am just confused as to your rhetorical purpose and intended audience.

    That's all. I'd appreciate it if you would help clarify things a bit.

    I am sorry if you're finding the reactions to be confused or hostile, but in my case at least, it comes from not knowing what prompted your initial post.

    As for the pseudonym issue, well -- most of us here are people who have or had bed bugs. You might be able to imagine why everyone doesn't want to use their own names.

    Most professionals here do, or at least make them known at some point. The only poster above known to me to be in the pest control business -- as opposed to be a person currently or formerly dealing with the problem at home -- is KillerQueen.

    My questions about your purpose are not just idle curiosity, either. The terms and conditions of the use of this site specify that you can't advertise products or services in forum threads. Please take some time to review it.

  32. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 7 2011 15:23:17
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    Gary and spideyjg,

    I sent you each a private message.

  33. BBGen0cide

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    Nobugsonme - 21 hours ago  » 
    Thanks, KillerQueen.
    BBGenOCide,
    I recall you mentioning that you were doing your own treatment because you could not find anyone capable locally. Since you PM'd me your location, I have now found some local recommendations for both heat and traditional treatments. I will send you a PM.
    These are not my recommendations, and so I can't personally endorse them, but they come from a trusted source in your state who really knows bed bugs.
    As I said, too often, people give up on finding someone locally because they don't have a KillerQueen or a David Cain, and this is a big mistake.

    Here is my overall situation. I am allergic to most chemicals. I live with people who have asthma. I have many pets.
    I have read a lot on the net about pray and spray companies who rush jobs and don't inspect well. I have looked into both of the companies you have told me about long ago.

    #1: I cannot afford heat. I agree with KQ that the equipment they use is not green, in fact I bet a lot of nature was destroyed when making those heaters. I also don't trust heating my house up. I have read that it can damage the house, the wood, the dry wall will warp, all kinds of things. I am not willing to damage my property for 3000 dollar treatment that wont treat my electronics, have also read that it can fail.

    #2: I will choose the chemical rout, but only by someone who doesn't use a gob of it, and doesn't know what they are doing. I have talked to enviropest, and they are too vague about everything and too expensive. I'm not bad mouthing either of the companies here. But I cannot find enough references or positive press on them. I'm not shelling out that kind of money so they can over charge, not get rid of my problem and make my roommates, and pets sick.

    This is why I want help from KillerQueen and anyone else who knows how to get rid of these things with out dousing the place in heat or chemicals. Hope that makes sense.

  34. BBGen0cide

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 7 2011 18:04:07
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    Gary: Are you claiming that this method used has been 100% successful every time with out damaging anything ever?

    How can you even make that claim when no scientific study was done after the fact checking all the electronics, structure thoroughly. I bet people don't even know that your treatments screw up stuff then discover it years down the road. I fear that heat might mess up the wiring and cause fires down the road. NO STUDIES HAVE BEEN DONE ON THIS. So to claim otherwise is silly to me.

    I could argue the same about pesticides as well. No one knows for sure the exact effect these things have on people. they do their studies on rats. the LD50 test etc. RATS DO NOT HAVE THE SAME PHYSIOLOGY AS HUMANS. Thus all tests done on rats are scientific fraud when applied to the human model. Only human tests yield human results. A quadruped vs a biped their cardiovascular systems are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

    We eat chocolate fine. Give a bunch to a dog and see how sick he gets. Since it's against the law to test this crap on people, in the end, we end up being the real Guinea Pigs.

  35. Winston O. Buggy

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    Mon Mar 7 2011 18:39:16
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    For what its worth I feel thermal remediation is a valuable tool in the war aginst bed bugs, however
    I wonder about the pure karma of Therma Pure.

  36. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 7 2011 18:48:18
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    > I wonder about the pure karma of…

    "Pure Karma" is a registered trade mark of CiLecto Industries, a subsidiary of Hemiptera Holdings, LLC, trade mark number 666. Please deposit your license fees at ICEA Brooklyn, third couch in from the entrance, under the middle cushion. CiLecto Industries accepts payment in Visa, MasterCard, PayPal or rugaleh pastries.

  37. BBGen0cide

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 7 2011 18:56:06
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    I think its too early to tell when it comes to heat treatment. I don't think long term studies on the wiring and electronics in the house, and the condition of the dry wall, ceilings, and wood are studied long term after the fact to give a clear result.

    What if heat messes up the wires, and in 6 years while a family is sleeping starts a fire, and all die as a result. Is that safe? Not to me. No way.

  38. Winston O. Buggy

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    Tue Mar 8 2011 1:09:04
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    cilecto - 6 hours ago  » 
    > I wonder about the pure karma of…
    "Pure Karma" is a registered trade mark of CiLecto Industries, a subsidiary of Hemiptera Holdings, LLC, trade mark number 666. Please deposit your license fees at ICEA Brooklyn, third couch in from the entrance, under the middle cushion. CiLecto Industries accepts payment in Visa, MasterCard, PayPal or rugaleh pastries.

    Oummh
    Do you accept checks?

  39. cilecto

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    Tue Mar 8 2011 6:49:56
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    From you, Winston, checks, sure!

  40. Exterminator Toronto

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    Tue Mar 8 2011 7:35:56
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    I'm not sure why everyone seems so outraged/skeptical about Thermapureheat. It should work, we have known about heat treatments for decades, it is not a new idea. The idea of heating an entire house or apartment is fantastic. Unfortunately it also comes at a high cost to the customer. I think the claim that it works 100% of the time is a little hard to accept. I was speaking with a company here in Toronto who performs a similar heat treatment. They put there success rate at about 94%... still pretty good. Raising the air temperature inside a room is easy, raising the temperature of all the items in the room is more of a challenge. Clutter, piles of clothes, and heat stratification are a few of the challenges this treatment encounters. I was told it takes two technicians about 10 hours to treat the average house including set up and takedown time. This is where I am lost as an exterminator. If I sent two technicians with steamers, and chemical and they spent 10 hours treating a house the results would be the same or higher. As it stands now a typical 3 bedroom house is treated in about 7 hours with 1 technician and our success after 1 treatment is around 92%. Our treatment costs about 40% of the whole house heat approach. For individuals that do not want any pesticide usage at all and have the money to afford the treatment the whole house heat option is a good one. With our experience we estimate this would be less than 10% of our customers. Not worth the $80,000 investment in start up equipment. Until the price comes down significantly I do not see whole house heating to be a common practice.

  41. Gary Douglas

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Mar 8 2011 10:28:26
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    Yes, there are people infringing on the patent, some of whom may not be aware of it. A few people apparently do not understand intellectual property law or exactly what the patent applies to. Others, however, certainly are willful in their infringement. Participating in this forum is one way of letting people know the facts.

  42. buggyinsocal

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    Tue Mar 8 2011 11:05:00
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    Exterminator Toronto,

    I think I can shed some light on your question about why so many people here are currently outraged/skeptical about Thermapure as a company.

    (Again: in the interest of full disclosure, I feel it important to note that a local PMP treated my apartment with Thermapure in June of 2008. I did have success with the method in that my bed bug problem was resolved with a single treatment. If anyone wanted to take the time to go back that far in the fora, it's pretty clear to see that while I was nervous and skeptical prior to treatment, I've been a big fan since and have probably recommended it more than any other way o to eliminate bed bugs.)

    Even though I had heat treatment--from the company in question--and even though I continue to recommend it as a very good treatment plan for bed bugs (in the cities where it is available, which, frankly, isn't nearly as many cities as have a demand for it)--Thermapure as a company has left a bad taste in my mouth.

    I'm not a lawyer; but I do regularly read selected legal cases in my day job. I can follow the vagaries of law in the US better than a lot of people. I do get that with trademark and copyright law, in US courts, owners of trademarks has a legal obligation to zealously defend their intellectual property. That's why intellectual property (IP) owners must rigorously go out and defend their IP. That can mean sending cease and desist letters to people who may be infringing on those rights. I can certainly see that it might mean coming to a forum like this and posting about it.

    That said, there's a way to do that that keeps consumers on your side. I've seen it happen in different contexts. The people who've come to this forum who purport to speak on behalf of Thermapure have not followed those tacks.

    We've basically been told we can't use the phrase involving the words thermal and remediation because that phrase has been trademarked.

    Gary Douglas is currently in this thread engaging in classic troll behavior, trotting out all kinds of logical fallacies to "make" his point. (When he tried to claim, for example, that he was the only one not using a pseud, There's ample evidence, for example, that women online use pseuds more often than men--precisely because we face different issues than men do. Women are more likely to be stalked or harassed then men, and using our legal names in online fora can be much more dangerous for us for those reasons. I use pseuds everywhere I participate online precisely to give myself some means of protection. I do not create sock puppets; each of my online personae have established identities in their communities.

    That, of course, is in addition to what I think would be obvious to most people. Most of us here are people who currently have or have had in the past bed bugs. If our legal names were associated with the forum--even setting aside issues of sexual harassment or stalking, it would likely make our lives much more difficult in terms of housing in the future. To say nothing of workplace issues.

    Bringing up the question of pseuds, as he does, is a classic example of derailing (aka the red herring logical fallacy) with a little ad hominemthrown into the argument for fun.

    I think using heat to treat a structure is a fabulous treatment for bed bugs. But as you point out, it doesn't work everywhere--nor does its price point work for everyone. I'd hate to see it disappear as an option. As a I stated before, I would absolutely choose it again. My dry cleaning bill alone--even with a Packtite--makes paying for the diff beteween it and chemical treatment a reasonable investment for me.

    I think it unfortunate that the primary company that licenses the method to pest management pros in the United States is either acting badly or working with people who've given them questionable advice about how to conduct their business affairs precisely because I think it's technically a great treatment option that is, unfortunately, getting bad press from a handful of people.

    I come back to the boards to stay up to date on the latest bed bug info and to "pay forward" the help I got here when I had bed bugs. I'm not inclined to dig up info on people who claim to speak for Thermapure. Perhaps many of these folks work for the competition. But that's where my skepticism about the company in terms of its customer relations comes from. As for talking honestly about all the pros and cons of any treatment method, well, that's just how I roll. I would be as critical of Vikane or chemical or any other mix of methods (dry vapor steam, dusts, mattress encasements) as I am of heat.

  43. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Mar 8 2011 12:26:30
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    Gary Douglas has posted his real name and linked to his communications consultancy.

    It does seem he is genuinely being employed by ThermaPure as a consultant, since his name is also attached to a recent press release used by the Vancouver Sun.

    Of that article, I will simply note that the example of the "New Jersey pest control company [that] was fined $880,000 for poisoning homes with chemicals not authorized for use on bedbugs" is not a particularly relevant example for claiming that pesticides used against bed bugs "pose a major risk", since the PCO in question was using a pesticide banned for indoor use and (by extension) illegal for use on bed bugs.

    Gary
    and Exterminator Toronto, I personally have no issue with the product or technology provided by ThermaPure. I don't think anyone here does.

    Some have commented on the patenting issue and this is a different matter.

    I still am completely perplexed by the appearance of this post on this thread.

    Gary said,

    Yes, there are people infringing on the patent, some of whom may not be aware of it. A few people apparently do not understand intellectual property law or exactly what the patent applies to. Others, however, certainly are willful in their infringement. Participating in this forum is one way of letting people know the facts.

    Since this is a forum for bed bug sufferers, most people in the industry are here only if they wish to offer support and share information. If your message is intended for pest control operators who use are infringing on ThermaPure's patent, I am not sure why you think this is a good forum for reaching them.

    If you think they are present, then you could be a lot more direct as to who you're talking to.

    This is why, Gary, I said very early in the conversation,

    I am just confused as to your rhetorical purpose and intended audience.

    As a communications strategist, I am sure you'll agree it's important to know what audience you're addressing and why, and to make sure your message gets to the right people.

    I think it is safe to say we're not them.

    If you need to communicate about patent infringement, talk to those who are infringing on it. Perhaps addressing the pest control industry via a trade publication would be more effective than addressing a community of bed bug sufferers.

    If, on the other hand, consumers are your intended audience, and you are here to let consumers know that the firm you represent has the real goods and we should buy their services, then it seems like you are advertising on a forum thread and therefore infringing on the terms and conditions for use of the site.

  44. Gary Douglas

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Mar 8 2011 12:39:13
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    This is not advertising, it's free speech in an attempt to get the facts out to the public which includes everyone. Advertising is paid for, this obviously is not. One would hope participants and readers evaluate all that is said and make better informed decisions regarding the fact that using toxic chemicals poses risks.

  45. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Mar 8 2011 12:52:05
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    Gary Douglas - 9 minutes ago  » 
    This is not advertising, it's free speech in an attempt to get the facts out to the public which includes everyone. Advertising is paid for, this obviously is not. One would hope participants and readers evaluate all that is said and make better informed decisions regarding the fact that using toxic chemicals poses risks.

    Gary,

    Please read the terms and conditions of site use, which I have directed you to twice before.

    FOR THOSE WHO SELL PRODUCTS OR SERVICES OR WORK IN THE INDUSTRY

    People who provide bedbug-related products and services are welcome to read and comment on the blog. Disclosure is a good thing.

    However, advertising is only allowed by arrangement and in the space provided. Do not advertise in the forums or in the blog comments; do not spam us with links to your product or service, or post comments that are veiled sales pitches. (Enquire by email if you’re not sure what’s appropriate.)

    It sounds like you are basically telling us that this is a sales pitch, aimed at getting consumers to choose ThermaPure over other firms.

    I have no problem with this firm advertising through the (paid) channels provided, but advertising in forum threads is not permitted.

    This is not permitted of other firms either.

    If you wanted to have a discussion of heat as a methodology, that would not necessarily be advertising, but it becomes so when you're representing a firm and promoting a firm to consumers as the best option.

    I run the site. If you wish to discuss this further, please send me a private message or use this form to send me an email.

  46. Gary Douglas

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    Tue Mar 8 2011 13:00:41
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    So, tell me, how does one correct misinformation or willfull disinformation? AND WHO ARE THE PEOPLE HIDING BEHIND PSEUDONYMS AND WHAT IS THEIR AGENDA??? 'Nuf said.

  47. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Mar 8 2011 13:13:34
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    Gary Douglas - 5 minutes ago  » 
    So, tell me, how does one correct misinformation or willfull disinformation? AND WHO ARE THE PEOPLE HIDING BEHIND PSEUDONYMS AND WHAT IS THEIR AGENDA??? 'Nuf said.

    Gary,

    The way to correct misinformation or disinformation is to respond to it where it occurs.

    You have not done so. You have not shown us where there has been any disinformation or misinformation in this thread.

    It has been explained why people here are using pseudonyms. To continue to harp on this point is to show you are not interested in the reasons.

    I am closing this thread and I would reiterate to you that I am happy to discuss it further privately.

    I am also reiterating that you have disregarded the rules for the site.

    And I am reiterating that I have no problem with Thermapure technology or the company itself.


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