http://bedbugger.com/forum/ Bed bug support forums en Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:15:43 +0000 http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/getting-bags-to-trash-038-laundry-advice#post-62809 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:12:42 +0000 buggedout16 62809@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I know this is an old post, but it's something I was wondering about, too. I can't do all my laundry at once d/t limited washers/dryers in my apartment's laundry room, and also limited hours. So I have some clothes bagged up and sitting on my floor, in double trash bags with the openings duct taped shut. If I can't do them as soon as I bag them, what about placing them in yet ANOTHER bag that I duct tape shut right before I take them to the laundry?</p> <p>Also, what about my laundry stuff- i.e. detergent, dryer sheets, bag of quarters... where should I keep that in my apartment? There's always a chance they could get bugs while I'm doing my laundry right? Should I just put them in a ziploc bag as soon as I get back into the apartment? Right now I just inspected the bag really carefully and set it on the floor near the front door- bad idea? I'm thinking so; I could be spreading to the living room (if not there already).</p> <p>Thanks... everyone is so patient here. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/getting-bags-to-trash-038-laundry-advice#post-62808 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:12:41 +0000 buggedout16 62808@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I know this is an old post, but it's something I was wondering about, too. I can't do all my laundry at once d/t limited washers/dryers in my apartment's laundry room, and also limited hours. So I have some clothes bagged up and sitting on my floor, in double trash bags with the openings duct taped shut. If I can't do them as soon as I bag them, what about placing them in yet ANOTHER bag that I duct tape shut right before I take them to the laundry?</p> <p>Also, what about my laundry stuff- i.e. detergent, dryer sheets, bag of quarters... where should I keep that in my apartment? There's always a chance they could get bugs while I'm doing my laundry right? Should I just put them in a ziploc bag as soon as I get back into the apartment? Right now I just inspected the bag really carefully and set it on the floor near the front door- bad idea? I'm thinking so; I could be spreading to the living room (if not there already).</p> <p>Thanks... everyone is so patient here. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62798 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:12:34 +0000 bait 62798@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I don't believe that resistance happens that quickly. Although some mutations in some species can happen relatively quickly (the peppered white moth to the black moth), it still has to manifest itself, be advantageous, and then move throughout the population and maintain its advantage. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62786 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:05:05 +0000 wchicago 62786@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>of course, one would wonder whether if repeatedly exposed to phantom at a low &lt;non-killing&gt; does - like, say, .125 instead of .5 &lt;as is currently happening in my apartment, *argh*&gt; whether they will then develop resistance to phantom too.<br /> double argh. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62781 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:13:31 +0000 bugfreebed 62781@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>A lot of the entomologist that are studding bed bugs collected from the field believe that some where close to 90% of the populations are resistant to pyrethroids to at least some degree . This is where Phantom comes in being that it is not a pyrethroid , and it might be a slower acting on bed bugs it will kill resistant and non-resistant strains . </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62754 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:50:54 +0000 btaggart 62754@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>im not an entomologist just a pco but from what ive heard there are resistant and non-resistant strains of bed bugs in all areas of the world with infestations. but again im not an entomologist so i would rather have one of the entomologist answer this question </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62752 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:41:48 +0000 bait 62752@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Thanks Btaggert. I know JWhite is one of our good guys. </p> <p>I would like to move on to the substantive issues.</p> <p>Does anyone know if there are differing strains of BBs in the same area? What do we know about different strains having different (or slower) kill rates? Would that be a correct characterization, or are different kill rates more a result of exposure resistance? </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62751 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:17:05 +0000 btaggart 62751@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>bait,</p> <p>i only post here once in a while when i really feel its important. i don't think jwhite is being uncivil. he is a very well respected member of the pest control industry, i personally would take his word on pesticide usage as well as bed bug protocols. im sure its very frustrating for him when he puts in so much time and effort to benefit this industry and people misquote research and facts. that's just my opinion i could be wrong. and i say this with no bias since both of these guys work in the same area as the company i work for does.</p> <p>brian </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62750 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:47:02 +0000 bait 62750@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I appreciate the debate. A little taken aback by the uncivil tone, though. Whether we like it or not, no one has a silver bullet. </p> <p>I'm wondering, since these two pest pros have such disparate results, perhaps the strain of C.lectularius is responding differently. Where ever bugboy is, maybe the bugs in his area are showing resistance. Maybe these two people are in different hemispheres. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62744 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:18:58 +0000 cilecto 62744@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>JWhiteBBCTV - 8 hours ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62697">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite><br /> Haha, Schmantom. Awesome, I should change the name of the BB TV episode to Schmantom.</p></blockquote> <p>Renember to give me the hat (or bump cap) tip. :) </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62743 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:10:24 +0000 JWhiteBBCTV 62743@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I'm not spending any more time responding to your ridiculous, misleading post. All I can say is that there's nothing like spraying down a HEPA filter with pesticides. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/happy-thanksgivingor-not#post-62730 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:58:32 +0000 mojo 62730@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Well thank you all for all your advise...It was not done unheeded. My brother called me and said him and the kids were not coming over for dinner. Now my brother does not have them but his his eldest son and daughter. I have other family members who won't come over if any of the kids are there for fear of them bringing over a stray bug, because the 2 older kids took no precautions and visited Mom's house who has 3 other kids there- who then go to my brothers house. So it seems this issue of bugs has put a divide on my family and I feel so bad. I am hoping that maybe now they will take this more seriously and do something about the issue at hand. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62711 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:36:01 +0000 BugBoy911 62711@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>JWhiteBBCTV - 3 hours ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62694">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite><br /> Ugh, I remember why I got frustrated with posting. This kind of stuff makes me insane. BugBoy911 stop spouting off with these statements. You're misleading people. Where do I begin....<br /> "...just doesn't absorb and is difficult for bedbugs to ingest..."<br /> Since when did bed bugs start ingesting pesticide? You must be talking about ants or cockroaches. Remember how bed bugs feed (not by chewing but instead by sucking) and they don't groom themselves like ants or cockroaches do and therefore, aren't thought by professionals to ingest active ingredients.<br /> "...125% is also a very low ineffective dilution for our friend the bedbug..."<br /> Based on who's research? Especially since with ants we apply a much lower rate then on the label and achieve the same results in regards to mortality.<br /> "...but even at this rate I still find that bedbugs just laugh at sprays..."<br /> Actually, for those that saw the presentation I gave at Pestworld in Vegas, preliminarily (we're not done with the study) we're finding that liquid residuals are adding an additional 15-40% mortality in bed bug treatments. This must be because you see the bugs walk away from an application of Phantom, cough a few times and then die right? Oh wait no, the pesticide takes 10-14 days to kill adult bed bugs (depending on exposure) so field observations in regards to the effect of this pesticide are difficult to make.<br /> "...Phantom is a long long term residual pesticide labled for use only once every couple months, not weeks..."<br /> Last I checked the label states 28 days, which by my math is a few weeks or a month.<br /> "...Phantom does not need to be re applied once used unless you mop the floor and clean it up..."<br /> Again, based on what research???<br /> "...Other pesticides are far more effective than phantom yet require an actual PCO to use them with a zing for bedbug elimination and prevention..."<br /> Because it takes extra smarts and attention to apply a pesticide from a spray tank? And yet again, based on what research. Actually researchers are finding Phantom to be one of the more effective pesticides out there for addressing resistance.<br /> "...hepa Vacuum before applying any pesticide is essential, not mabye, not sometimes, it is essential..."<br /> Actually I and most knowledgeable professionals find HEPA filter vacuums very difficult to empty out since so much gets stuck in the filter that we commonly recommend using vacuums that empty into a bag when removing bed bugs due to their ease of emptying.<br /> "...Joe Shmoe is doing that day..."<br /> Who's Joe Schmoe here?<br /> "....You wouldn't use a doctor that couldn't explain the medication and diagnosis of your medical condition right? Same goes for bedbugs for it can change your life mentally if not addressed correctly and immediatly..."<br /> This may be the only good thing you said.<br /> "...God bless and good luck. Truth..."<br /> Are you now signing your posts "The Truth"? God help us.<br /> Phantom is, and can be, a very effective pesticide for treating bed bug infestations. Again, as I always say, pesticides should be one aspect of an effective bed bug treatment plan and it is a good idea to add a faster acting liquid residual into the plan because Phantom can take 10-14 days to kill bugs since it's a metabolic inhibitor which may be an unacceptable time for someone suffering from bed bugs to wait. You can also watch our last episode of Bed Bug TV for more info.<br /> <a href="http://tv.bedbugcentral.com/index.php/2009/11/bbtv-35-phantom-insecticide-for-bed-bug-control/" rel="nofollow">http://tv.bedbugcentral.com/index.php/2009/11/bbtv-35-phantom-insecticide-for-bed-bug-control/</a></p></blockquote> <p>For ants Phantom is absolutly the most magical product out their with so much promise. For Bedbugs I do not need research, my research is performed doing treatments and I"m sorry to say that the dry residual of Phantom isn't working nearly as well for bedbugs, for ants you hardly need any at all and poof! </p> <p>It does take zing, knowledge, and practice to use more precise and acurate pesticides which you cannot find in the B and G monster list. A product as wonderful as tri-die aerosol is a perfect example of the type of PCO I am. Products like Phantom Aerosol, Bedlam "straw," and all the detailing pesticides are what I"m talking about. Any jockey or Joe Shmoe can pump and spray down a room, yet only a few go beyond to find results that take bedbug battle in a new %100 I see with my own eyes results that cannot be questioned or have 10-14 day revisits to check to see if its working. IF there moving its not working and using these residuals sprays as a main attack, even after 14 days, you'll see, there laughing at you. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62705 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:35:20 +0000 BugBoy911 62705@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>All in all, if I just used phantom as my choice of pesticide I would be having major call backs. Say what you want... As you can see Joe Shmoe is the typical guy that charged $1000 and does nothing or didn't go threw anything in the room cause he has 18 treatments. I understand that bedbugs do not ingest it because of their sucking mouth parts but I thought that they can some how ingest or absorb the pesticide? I find it that it takes far too long IMO to deliver fast enough results to put the client at ease and using Phantom as your main weapon of choice IMO you gona have call backs and psychologically stressed clients. I personally go threw every inch of the room carefully, using a series of pesticides for immediate knock down followed by long term residuals dusts prefered usually charge far less and provide a world of difference. I personally can't ask questions within those I work with. Not even my boss can answer basic pesticide questions for me, and only working for 2-3 years in the field I find I"m doing pretty dam good. My Joe Shmoe theory is correct, for Orkin had 18 treatments that day and his $1000 bedbug nonsense included. Research? Its just what I encounter on a daily bases, from working with a few companies to one day starting my own, its the 15 stops that day with 3 bedbug jobs were you don't have time to kick some butt, doesn't matter what pesticides you have. Vacuuming you say is not essential? What you gona do, leave dead bedbugs all over the room? I mean honestly? They get stuck? I've never had my hepa get stuck full of bedbugs LOL... r u serious? You can spray some bedlam or pyrethrin inside the hepa quickly to kill anything thats moving. A client wants a fast knockdown quickly to put their mind at ease, using phantom or any residual spray will take time to work leaving the client psychologically stressed waiting for it to work. From all of these posts of complaints and worry, I feel the Joe Shmoe theory is correct come on now you know Joe has to make his boss his new BMW today, the boss doesn't want a used one, and joe couldn't even dream of a used one 18 stops joe all done before 5pm "Joe"....... 28 days residual? When used as a termiticide it lasts longer in the ground? I thought it lasts months? I just remember using all the water based pyrethroids/Phantom/ demand CS spraying everything down, I mean everything, and I come back in a week or 2 or 3 and I"m still seeing bedbugs living like nothing happend. I find what I see with my own eyes in an actual apt, home, office bedbug situation for me, my research. Mabye phantom works better on a cetain surface or in a certain situation more than another situation or a different fabric or different setting compared to products that work on all surfaces no matter what the situation. From continuous dissapointment I have developed a stratagey of hunt and seek, real C and C work, not using the B and G. I appreciate the correction of my post though. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62697 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:13:51 +0000 JWhiteBBCTV 62697@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Haha, Schmantom. Awesome, I should change the name of the BB TV episode to Schmantom. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62695 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:59:21 +0000 cilecto 62695@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Wikipedia: Joe Shmoe (also spelled Joe Schmoe and Joe Schmo) is one of the most commonly used fictional names in American English. It is used to identify the typical, everyday person who does not have any special status, frequently in contrast to some group. Adding a "Shm" to the beginning of a word is meant to diminish, negate, or dismiss an argument (for instance, "Rain, shmain, we've got a game to play"). This process was adapted in English from the use of the "schm" prefix in Yiddish to dismiss something; as in, "Fancy, schmancy."</p> <p>…or, Phantom, Schmantom. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62694 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:29:36 +0000 JWhiteBBCTV 62694@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Ugh, I remember why I got frustrated with posting. This kind of stuff makes me insane. BugBoy911 stop spouting off with these statements. You're misleading people. Where do I begin....</p> <p>"...just doesn't absorb and is difficult for bedbugs to ingest..."<br /> Since when did bed bugs start ingesting pesticide? You must be talking about ants or cockroaches. Remember how bed bugs feed (not by chewing but instead by sucking) and they don't groom themselves like ants or cockroaches do and therefore, aren't thought by professionals to ingest active ingredients.</p> <p>"...125% is also a very low ineffective dilution for our friend the bedbug..."<br /> Based on who's research? Especially since with ants we apply a much lower rate then on the label and achieve the same results in regards to mortality.</p> <p>"...but even at this rate I still find that bedbugs just laugh at sprays..."<br /> Actually, for those that saw the presentation I gave at Pestworld in Vegas, preliminarily (we're not done with the study) we're finding that liquid residuals are adding an additional 15-40% mortality in bed bug treatments. This must be because you see the bugs walk away from an application of Phantom, cough a few times and then die right? Oh wait no, the pesticide takes 10-14 days to kill adult bed bugs (depending on exposure) so field observations in regards to the effect of this pesticide are difficult to make.</p> <p> "...Phantom is a long long term residual pesticide labled for use only once every couple months, not weeks..."<br /> Last I checked the label states 28 days, which by my math is a few weeks or a month.</p> <p>"...Phantom does not need to be re applied once used unless you mop the floor and clean it up..."<br /> Again, based on what research???</p> <p>"...Other pesticides are far more effective than phantom yet require an actual PCO to use them with a zing for bedbug elimination and prevention..."<br /> Because it takes extra smarts and attention to apply a pesticide from a spray tank? And yet again, based on what research. Actually researchers are finding Phantom to be one of the more effective pesticides out there for addressing resistance.</p> <p>"...hepa Vacuum before applying any pesticide is essential, not mabye, not sometimes, it is essential..."<br /> Actually I and most knowledgeable professionals find HEPA filter vacuums very difficult to empty out since so much gets stuck in the filter that we commonly recommend using vacuums that empty into a bag when removing bed bugs due to their ease of emptying.</p> <p>"...Joe Shmoe is doing that day..."<br /> Who's Joe Schmoe here?</p> <p>"....You wouldn't use a doctor that couldn't explain the medication and diagnosis of your medical condition right? Same goes for bedbugs for it can change your life mentally if not addressed correctly and immediatly..."<br /> This may be the only good thing you said.</p> <p>"...God bless and good luck. Truth..."<br /> Are you now signing your posts "The Truth"? God help us. </p> <p>Phantom is, and can be, a very effective pesticide for treating bed bug infestations. Again, as I always say, pesticides should be one aspect of an effective bed bug treatment plan and it is a good idea to add a faster acting liquid residual into the plan because Phantom can take 10-14 days to kill bugs since it's a metabolic inhibitor which may be an unacceptable time for someone suffering from bed bugs to wait. You can also watch our last episode of Bed Bug TV for more info.<br /> <a href="http://tv.bedbugcentral.com/index.php/2009/11/bbtv-35-phantom-insecticide-for-bed-bug-control/" rel="nofollow">http://tv.bedbugcentral.com/index.php/2009/11/bbtv-35-phantom-insecticide-for-bed-bug-control/</a> </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62683 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:24:35 +0000 wchicago 62683@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>hi guys</p> <p>THANK YOU for all the input, and for confirming i'm not crazy to be worried about the low dosage.<br /> I will definitely talk to my PCO company about this &lt;very politely&gt;. I think they only have one tech, it is Orkin - which is a franchise&lt;?&gt;, and I think the branch i was assigned to is tiny and with only one tech. I think this because when speaking to the office manager scheduling my next treatment she was like "on Friday he has 18 treatments, on Saturday he has 21, how about Monday?"<br /> Maybe corporate Orkin if i call them can assign me to a different Orkin franchise with more BB experience or at least more staff - i live in Chicago, so lord knows there must be some branches that have more BB experience, but i was assigned a suburban branch located in Skokie &lt;who knows why, corporate Orkin seems to do the assignments&gt;.<br /> Anyway, i have a 60 day contract, and maybe for my next treatments i can get reassigned, though it may be too late to be reassigned for Monday's treatment.<br /> And nobugs, i know self-treatment is mostly discouraged - but I kind of lean toward the notion of supplemental treatment given my current professional treatment is fairly ineffective. I'm a college professor &lt;thus used to learning new things&gt;, I've read a lot -both here and in the scientific and trade journals available in the library on bedbugs. I am happy to wear protective gear. I've already spent over $1000 on the problem and I'm just so f**ing tired of being bitten.<br /> I've caulked, I've vapor steamed, I own a respirator. I WILL vacuum &lt;was told not to by my tech, but given his managerjust now told me i should have been doing this every day, grrr, I will start&gt;, I bought a packtite and have run my books and papers through and they are safely in Ziplocs, all my 'good clothes' are in storage after cleaning and i'm living in all things that can be washed and dried on hot and am full on in the ziploc lifestyle. In other words - I am holding up my end of the bargain and then some. If they will not use the correct chemicals, i can (Phantom already diluted at .5 can be purchased online).</p> <p>Without this board, i would not even have known how to prep &lt;or that i should have been prepping - i had to call to get a prep sheet read to me over the phone, and only knew i should do that because of these boards&gt;, I would not have known about dryer temps and times, or the Pactite, or Sterifab. This board is an invaluable resource and I'm so grateful for it. And yes, its perhaps sad or unfair when people have to apply their knowledge instead of the professionals they've given a lot of money to solve the problem (professor is not a high paying occupation after all), but speaking for myself, I'm glad to have the option of knowledgeable self-treatment. I also understand why so many people here end up &lt;not start, but *end up*&gt; self-treating. Some folks on these boards have been really lucky with good professional help and have thus solved the problem. Believe me, were KillerQueen in Chicago, or were David here, or indeed were any of the PCOs on this board available to me - i would NEVER be thinking of self-treatment. But they are not. And my expensive but seemingly bb unknowledgable PCO is, alas, not solving the problem.<br /> I will keep you all posted, and thanks again for the help and support. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/preparation-for-exterminators#post-62679 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:54:36 +0000 catdog 62679@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>i have spoke to 4-5 pco's now and ea says something a lil diff... so who to trust? who to hire?<br /> one company said take all clothes to a laundrymat as my dryer wont be hot enough. what?<br /> everyone else said thats bull....<br /> 2 places wont quote til they come out.... and 2 others quote me 350-400.00 and 100.00 each trip after.</p> <p>one company suggested i buy the steamer and do it myself....<br /> so i did. all day and nite, very tedious....each piece of furn. after i tossed mattress....<br /> only found feces...and one shell.... but ive been using de powder and alcohol for awhile.<br /> my problem is i dont see them and no bites,,,,,but i seen one a wk ago....which is why i started up again.</p> <p>just very confusing who to beleive.....</p> <p>i </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/boflo-powder-propoxur#post-62672 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:50:55 +0000 cilecto 62672@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>BugBoy911 - 5 hours ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/boflo-powder-propoxur#post-62668">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite><br /> I would keep it simple with Dusts containing pyrethrin and dry silica gel or silicon dioxide. Proxpur in New York is not labled for bedbugs. </p></blockquote> <p>Original poster is being served by a pro in the Czech Republic, not New York. </p> <p>Propoxur is the ingredient that the state of Ohio, joined by &gt; 12 others., has petitioned the EPA to allow emergency use. Harvard's Richard Pollack indicated that if used wisely, Propoxur's benefits outweigh the risks.<br /> <a href="http://bedbugger.com/2009/11/11/ohio-fighting-to-get-propoxur-for-residential-bed-bug-applications/" rel="nofollow">http://bedbugger.com/2009/11/11/ohio-fighting-to-get-propoxur-for-residential-bed-bug-applications/</a> </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62670 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:44:43 +0000 bugfreebed 62670@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Bug boy you too do are not following the label it takes 3oz to a gallon to get .5 % and yes phantom is a long lasting residual and takes days to kill BB , but miwed and applied right is one of the best weapons us PCO's have .. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/boflo-powder-propoxur#post-62668 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:22:06 +0000 BugBoy911 62668@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I would keep it simple with Dusts containing pyrethrin and dry silica gel or silicon dioxide. Proxpur in New York is not labled for bedbugs. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62665 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:50:21 +0000 BugBoy911 62665@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Agreed that one should not "leap," into performing a self treatment, yet with guidance I feel she would be able to enhance these treatments of low dosed Phantom or at least help them out. Just perform an inspection with a flashlight and see what you see. Help your PCO out if he needs it, do a little detective work and show him were to spray.. unreal..... :( </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62645 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:15:56 +0000 Nobugsonme 62645@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>BugBoy911 - 1 hour ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62638">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite><br /> <strong>Yea mabye the self treat option sounds like it may help you</strong> or use the information on this board to rip your PCO a new butt and if he can't answer then get your money back or request their top PCO. </p></blockquote> <p>BugBoy911,</p> <p>Just because someone has a tech that does not seem knowledgeable is not a reason to leap to self treatment.</p> <p>wchicago,</p> <p>I would start first by talking to the manager again. You may be able to request a different tech (since it sounds like several things have been wrong). </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62638 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:27:53 +0000 BugBoy911 62638@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Although Phantom is a wonderful product for general pest control, I'm finding that specifically in bedbug elimination that Phantom just doesn't absorb and is difficult for bedbugs to ingest. .125% is also a very low ineffective dilution for our friend the bedbug. I personally use minimum .75 ounces or even up to 1.5oz per gallon for the suspension to be strong enough for elimination, but even at this rate I still find that bedbugs just laugh at sprays. Also sounds like you BedBug professional specializes in good old "talk and no results, give me your money," type dude. I feel bad for you situation for you are fighting a war without the correct weapons and knowledge to win. Also, Phantom is a long long term residual pesticide labled for use only once every couple months, not weeks. Phantom does not need to be re applied once used unless you mop the floor and clean it up. Other pesticides are far more effective than phantom yet require an actual PCO to use them with a zing for bedbug elimination and prevention. Did he even break a sweat? How long was he their on the initial treatment? So sorry for you situation, I hope you didn't go broke. The use of the hepa Vacuum before applying any pesticide is essential, not mabye, not sometimes, it is essential. When you have to actually work for you $13 an hr, you wil say anything not too!! Get my drift? THis is a major problem in the pest control industry. You charge customers thousands of dollars, yet send joe shmoe over making not even .001% of the entire job, this makes your stop no different than any other stop that Joe Shmoe is doing that day. Doesn't matter if the job is $5000 or $30 Joe Shmoe is still making $13 for that hr. Specifically in BedBug situations the PCO is gona have to work, move furniture, inspect carefully, take apart bed frames and boxsprings to some extent, use a combination of effective pesticides which require a specific enthusiasm and interest to truelly be able to use these effectively. Yea mabye the self treat option sounds like it may help you or use the information on this board to rip your PCO a new butt and if he can't answer then get your money back or request their top PCO. In many area's of the USA the bedbug is still relatively new and most companies really don't understand the BedBug but they do understand $$$$. You wouldn't use a doctor that couldn't explain the medication and diagnosis of your medical condition right? Same goes for bedbugs for it can change your life mentally if not addressed correctly and immediatly. God bless and good luck. Truth </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/happy-thanksgivingor-not#post-62631 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:41:17 +0000 BBcoukHome 62631@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Turkey and Tyvek suits. OK joking aside it is a valid option, encase them at the front door if they are not willing to take appropriate steps to ensure that they do not bring them with them.</p> <p>I am sure if you share the FAQ's from this site with them about the steps needed to ensure that they do not bring them out of their home and into yours there is a good chance that they will respect you enough to follow them.</p> <p>I am sure it will only be a matter of time before they realise that ignoring them will not solve the problem and in the meantime you can collate a crash course on bed bugs for them when they are ready to see sense and deal with the issue.</p> <p>Good luck.</p> <p>David Cain<br /> Bed Bugs Limited </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/happy-thanksgivingor-not#post-62630 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:36:50 +0000 cilecto 62630@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>CookEmDanno - 29 minutes ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/happy-thanksgivingor-not#post-62622">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite><br /> This may sound harsh, but you can ask them to shower at your house while their clothes go through a hot water wash-and-dry. Otherwise, please don't come. Feathers will fly but that's the best way to protect your home and impress upon them that this IS a big deal whether they can see the bugs or not.</p></blockquote> <p>bring little or nothing. Everything else dried or pack tight ed. No toys to sneak out late at night. No game boy. No nothing. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/happy-thanksgivingor-not#post-62626 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:24:19 +0000 watkinsnewan 62626@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I second that... DO YOU REALLY want to go through that again..... unnecessarily..Take lots of precautions... </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/happy-thanksgivingor-not#post-62622 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:05:04 +0000 CookEmDanno 62622@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>This may sound harsh, but you can ask them to shower at your house while their clothes go through a hot water wash-and-dry. Otherwise, please don't come. Feathers will fly but that's the best way to protect your home and impress upon them that this IS a big deal whether they can see the bugs or not. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/happy-thanksgivingor-not#post-62618 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:48:17 +0000 mojo 62618@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Now this is the dilema...I don't have bed bugs but my 26yr. old nephew and neice have them. The scenerio is neice went to a motel with friends got them in her brothers home. she noticed the bites and bugs and talked to my daughter who works in an apartment complex with issues in some of those units. she went out and bought the bags for her beds and decided to move out and into her boyfriends house. Now for treatment...really nothing besides vacuuming. They have the attitude if I ignore them they will go away, out of site out of mind! Now I'm having thanksgiving dinner and they are coming...what are the risks of them infesting my house and what can do to limit the spread? What can be done on their part to keep my home bug free?<br /> Any input would be great! </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62614 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:02:15 +0000 bugfreebed 62614@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Yes phantom should be allied at .5% according to the label , The label also says "DO NOT reapply more often than every four weeks" .. I might question this companies exp. with BB . Hope this helps </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/phantom-125-pco-question-please-help#post-62606 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:11:19 +0000 wchicago 62606@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Hello<br /> My PCO has been spraying with Phantom diluted at .125 (chlorfanapyr, .125). Everything i've read says that phantom is good for bbs (originally developed for termites), but also that for bed bugs the dilution is usually .5 (this .5 dilution recommendation is from the Phantom manufacturer website, as well as all the published work on phantom and bedbugs)?<br /> this has been driving me a little nuts (i'm in week 6 of treatments, they come every 2 weeks and spray phantom .125, and yes i'm still getting bites). My questions, and someone please PLEASE answer if you know</p> <p>1. Should chlorfanapyr be diluted at .5 for bedbugs,or is .125 the proper dosing?<br /> 2. If it is being sprayed for 6 weeks at .125 and should have been at .5, will this give me chlorfanapyr resistant bbs because they've been surviving small doses?<br /> 3. How do i talk to my tech about this (I always have the same tech)? Keeping in mind, he is helpful when i ask for advice about some things (Like how to protect my dog, cure my shoes, etc) - but sometimes gives me conflicting advice from his own company (e.g., he said no vaccuming, but manager of his company just told me i should be doing daily vacuuming), he didn't give me a prep sheet or post care sheet, and gets a little huffy when i ask him about why he's doing things a certain way &lt;like i had to beg him to treat my nightstand and dresser, instead of just the baseboards in the bedroom, and even then he did not treat any furniture until the last visit, after i talked to his manager. notably, after treating the bedroom furniture, biting in the bedroom stopped&gt;.</p> <p>help? please? </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/can-i-donate-clothes-post-treatment#post-62605 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:56:00 +0000 nervousaboutbedbugs 62605@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Thanks all for your comments. </p> <p>I live in a single family home in CT and still am not whether I had/have an infestation or not (no 'real' evidence). Regardless, we did the thermal treatments (my thermal company considers the dogs the gold standard and did not require finding an actual bug/casing). In the meantime, a good friend just found out she's expecting and wants the clothes. She is completely aware of my situation, but thinks that as long as I follow the decontamination procedures it isn't a problem. </p> <p>Given that she's aware, I guess it's her call. I think I'll have her check out this site and get an idea of the havoc bedbugs cause before she decides for sure. In the meantime, I am washing, super-drying, and immediately zip-loc bagging all of the clothes. I used a thermometer in my dryer and it gets up to 180. I'm drying the clothes on high for 60 minutes after dry. I feel pretty confident that there won't be any problems with the clothes, but of course anything can happen. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/can-i-donate-clothes-post-treatment#post-62592 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:07:54 +0000 Aris 62592@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I'm not a expert on bedbugs, but I have been donating my used clothes for years; and I recall once or twice that my mother bought used clothes from a thrift store that I wore as a kid. </p> <p>Personally, I think it is unethical to donate clothes after an infestation, unless there have been no signs of ongoing infestation for several months (like 4 months or more), with the clothes being kept very near your bed during those months post treatment.<br /> If you live in an apartment building or townhouse, or wash your clothes in a laundry shared with other people, I'd be even more uncomfortable with donating your clothes.</p> <p>(On the other hand, these days if you take any used clothing home, you should recognize that it's possible you could be bringing new friends home along with the clothes.) </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/can-i-donate-clothes-post-treatment#post-62582 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:37:30 +0000 Bugbitten Meg 62582@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>fantastapotamus - 13 hours ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/can-i-donate-clothes-post-treatment#post-62522">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite></p> <p>Even without the fear of passing along contaminated items, a lot of it is the stuff I've decided to let go simply isn't good enough to be donated. clothes with holes in them (for painting I tell myself), pillows that need to be doubled or tripled in a pillowcase to be useful, socks almost worn through (but good for doubling up in winter). </p></blockquote> <p>At least one place near me will take 'rag grade' as well -- I try to give them separate bags of that, when I have it, and the comments about 'do you have time for the extra work' go double when you know it's probably going to end up in high-end stationery, but as long as it's clearly separated out, they're still happy to have it. If you're not sure about your local drop-offs, call them before you bother processing it. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/where-to-buy-diatomaceous-earth#post-62565 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:01:17 +0000 grassroots 62565@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>In Toronto the store by BOOKCITY on Danforth is Grassroots! They even explain extensively how to apply it with a sieve because apparently bugs work in shadows they see a big thing in their way they go around it. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/opening-bags-post-treatment-to-packtite-treat#post-62532 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:36:45 +0000 Nobugsonme 62532@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>zzzra,</p> <p>Your post (and other identical ones) is considered spam and was deleted.</p> <p>Your original post about selling your Packtite remains on the site. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/can-i-donate-clothes-post-treatment#post-62522 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:45:58 +0000 fantastapotamus 62522@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>In my case I've made the decision to throw out almost everything I've been hanging on to for far too long.</p> <p>Even without the fear of passing along contaminated items, a lot of it is the stuff I've decided to let go simply isn't good enough to be donated. clothes with holes in them (for painting I tell myself), pillows that need to be doubled or tripled in a pillowcase to be useful, socks almost worn through (but good for doubling up in winter). </p> <p>I never really considered myself a packrat or a hoarder, but I do use stuff until it is worn out... maybe I need to adjust my definition of worn out or think of donating a little sooner before they get too bad </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/vent-pco-instructions-exactly-opposite-how-bad-is-this#post-62512 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:40:00 +0000 wchicago 62512@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>VENT VENT VENT</p> <p>Ok, so I"m cruising into treatment #3 this monday (yes, so 6 weeks since the PCO started coming and i began the zip loc lifestyle) and i'm speaking to the manager of the company and she says "have you been vaccuming every day?" and i say "No, my tech told me not to vacuum where the pesticides were" and SHE said "Thats just for the first 4 hours after application, after that you should be vacuuming every day"</p> <p>Ok, these folks didn't give me a prep sheet (I had to call and have them read it to me on the phone), and said NOTHING in the sheet they left after each treatment about daily vaccuuming (their sheet only listed pesticides used and where they used them) AND their tech told me SPECIFICALLY not to vacuum where the pesticides were being placed. And he obviously didn't mean until 4 hours after application, because he made me stay out of the house for 4 hours after application. And now i learn i should be vacuuming every day as part of the treatment. REALLY? Would have been NICE to know that 6 weeks ago!</p> <p>So, this means for 6 weeks i have been remiss in daily vacuuming. I even bought a bagged vacuum at the start of all this because i assumed i would be vacuuming - but then after speaking to my tech about vacuuming during treatment 1, was told not to vacuum the bedroom, living room, and back room &lt;where he treated&gt;. ARGH. Keep in mind, i don't ever see the bugs wandering about (have only seen 2 adults on my bedframe when i took it apart for steaming, and one nymph in the whole time i've had them, and only the nymph was a wanderer - wandered onto my leg, in fact)</p> <p>How bad is this do you think? How much does the lack of vacuuming really hinder bb eradication efforts? They are using Phantom &lt;if that helps anyone&gt; but only at .125 dilution (when everything i've read says it should be .5 for bedbugs -this is ALSO confusing).<br /> I'm really getting frustrated with the lack of communication and worse, the mixed/opposite communication, and am still being bitten &lt;though not nearly as much as 6 weeks ago&gt;. The PCo is one i hired myself and is crazy expensive and has a 60 day contract. </p> <p>So, enough venting -the question is -does anyone know how important the vacuuming is for successful bb eradication? Because i failed to do this, have i made the problem worse, or maybe just prolonged the final eradication? </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62511 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:20:26 +0000 spideyjg 62511@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>LVK9 - 50 minutes ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62506">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite><br /> You really can't, not unless someone is willing to leave their stand alone home for a long period of time. How long? Longer than the numbers mention above. I guess my point in all of this is that staving out a bed bug infestation really is not an option.</p></blockquote> <p>Yep all that. The only reason we bring up the starvation thing is that people do seal stuff and store it or use encasement and wonder about removal. </p> <p>Sealed away in something the bugs will eventually die of starvation and the rule of thumb, since temperature really cannot be accounted for, is 2 years.</p> <p>Now if you lived in the desert southwest and sealed stuff away in the spring and left it through the fall outside in the blast furnace heat, probably in 3 months everything would be dead. Outside of that scenario 2 years.</p> <p>Jim </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/help-with-bed-bugs-in-small-car#post-62509 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:56:27 +0000 cilecto 62509@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Jun. Rest Easy, by the seller's own claim, is a contact only killer (no better than numerous other commonly available products) and a repellent (whose efficacy beyond a few hours has not been demonstrated). Repellents are problematic in BB treatment, as they risk driving the bugs deeper into hiding. I'd consider using this product on luggage that I'm putting someplace questionable for a few hours, or on myself (if permitted by label) to keep bugs from hitching a ride on me. But not to treat a car. If I'm going to go with a contact killer, I'd just scrub down the car with Murphy's soap and water. Howard and Bruce Brenner, (RMB Group), producers of Rest Easy, seem like innovative, clever people. I wish them well and hope to see some good products from their pipeline. But I'm not convinced about this one. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62506 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:25:19 +0000 LVK9 62506@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>You really can't, not unless someone is willing to leave their stand alone home for a long period of time. How long? Longer than the numbers mention above. I guess my point in all of this is that staving out a bed bug infestation really is not an option. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62495 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:56:58 +0000 DeathToAllBBs 62495@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Being able to starve them to death is quite difficult. If they are in your home, how on earth could you pull that off? </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/boflo-powder-propoxur#post-62491 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:08:48 +0000 EffeCi 62491@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Propoxur is a highly toxic carbamate insecticide both acutely and chronically . It is also thought to be a carcinogen, cardiovascular or blood toxicant, reproductive toxicant, and, due to its cholinesterase inhibiting properties, a neurotoxicant . It is not thought to be bioaccumulative. </p> <p>source: <a href="http://toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Propoxur">http://toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Propoxur</a> </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/boflo-powder-propoxur#post-62489 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:20:58 +0000 belum2aj 62489@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>Is Proxopur in wide use in CZ against BB? If so, are BB less of a problem than they are in plaes that don't (like the USA)?</blockquote></p> <p>I think it's legal, but the only thing with Propoxur is <a href="http://www.bayergroupindia.com/bolfo_powder.htm">this</a><br /> It's a powder for dog fleas and it has only 1% of the pesticidein it. So I'm wondering if it will be enough.</p> <p>Actually PCO was here yesterday, sprayed the room with something he called "dust" (before it was some "microcapsules) , but I think it's that deltamethrine thing, cause of the reaction bedbugs have (layng on their backs with their legs wiggling:) ). This, in my opinion, is not enough for our situation. Our BBs live under the floor, so he can't get directly to them and tonight, I saw them happily crawling the walls sprayed with the dust...<br /> Maybe they were a little disoriented but shouldn't they die instantly?<br /> Thanks</p> <p>PS:I can't comment on the BB situation here in Prague, but I believe, that as with every other trend we're just a little behind :) </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/help-with-bed-bugs-in-small-car#post-62481 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:55:05 +0000 jun8k 62481@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Hey buggyinsocal.<br /> I did get a positive ID from Terminix but it was not necessary. It was obvious that it was either bed or bat bugs. Markings on the bed, the way they look, they're movement, blood stains etc. But yeah Terminix confirmed it.<br /> So the product I purchased, since you say it's o.k. to post, is called "Rest Easy" by RMB. On their site they show results of some scientific studies to show that it is effective.<br /> So the long version is<br /> 1. I used vacuumed and sprayed my mattress to get as many of the bugs as I could.<br /> 2. I put encasings on the mattress and box spring.<br /> 3. vacuumed the floor and such.<br /> 4. sprayed and cleaned my metal bed frame.</p> <p>So the next day I checked between the mattress and box spring. There were 4 or 5 bed bugs there. I vacuumed them up. </p> <p>5. I then sprayed the repellent / killer on the mattress, box springs, frame.<br /> 6. I put some plastic bowls I purchased at the $1 store on the feet of the bed frame. Sprayed repellent there too.<br /> I haven't had any more bugs on the bed in about 2-3 weeks now. It has not been 2 months yet.<br /> I live in a one story house.<br /> I'm still cleaning out my room and throwing things out. Might spray with some kind of pesticide in remaining spaces where they might be. I might even tear out my carpet. It's cement under the carpet. Might stain the cement.<br /> What I mentioned in my earlier post was that someone else in my house was getting some bites at night. May not have been bed bugs. Didn't see them in that bed, or that part of the house. I used the spray around the that person's bed and they stopped getting bites. But I cant' be sure those bites were from bed bugs, but I think they probably were. That room was about 15 feet away from the room that was definitely infested with bed bugs.<br /> I have also been spraying around the door frame of the room that was infested, in hopes of keeping them confined to one room. I haven't seen them outside of the infested room so far at least.<br /> I've been spraying my bed every couple of days at least.<br /> I'm definitely not saying this is a cure all. Especially not for a house or apartment!<br /> BuggyinLA was talking about a car. I figured for a car that it might drive all the bed bugs out of the car. A house or apartment is a totally different story! I wouldn't spray it directly on the main infested area in a house necessarily. That might make them move around and hide in various areas of the house. In a car, it may cause them all to leave the car entirely.<br /> There were some studies on that companies website. They used some heated device. With no repellent all of the bugs went to the heat source. When they covered the heat source with a towel or paper towel or something that had the repellent, only one out of ten bugs went to the heat source.<br /> It seems to work for me. I am just reporting my personal experience, as a possible solution to BuggyinLAs car problem. If he's out of options it might be something to try. I definitely wouldn't recommend using it alone in a house or apartment. I think in a home there must be more of a strategy. It can be used as part of that, but not that by itself. A car I figure may be a bit more simple. Put something all on the inside that will make them want to leave, and hopefully they will leave the car completely. I guess where to put the car while doing this might be important too! If possible one may want to put the car somewhere away from the home, or from other homes too! </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62478 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:08:51 +0000 spideyjg 62478@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Yep all we can do is mathematical estimates based upon the tested landmarks to figure the "thermal death curve."</p> <p>Jim </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62457 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:59:06 +0000 LVK9 62457@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Spidey, I took the numbers @ 65 degrees to 80 degrees and the life of a once feed bed bug at those temps. I then averaged them and the results are 12 days longer life per degree lower in temp from 80 degrees down to 65 degrees. I know this is not set in stone but just an average to get an idea. This means really little though in the real world as these numbers are for a once feed not weekly feed bed bug. So for these numbers to matter bed bugs would not have access to a host for the entire length of time needed to starve out. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62456 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:56:10 +0000 spideyjg 62456@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>From the Monograph...22C is 71F</p> <p><blockquote>The effect of starvation on survival is so intimately connected with<br /> temperature and humidity that it is difficult to assess the effect of starvation alone. At 22C and 40 to 45% RH, Kemper (1930) found mean<br /> survival times for C. lectularius without food to be 83.7 days in first and second instars, 130.6 days in adult females, and 142.6 days in males.</blockquote></p> <p>BTW the 18 months....</p> <p><blockquote>In a practical test of survival, Bacot (1914) fed bugs of various stages once and then kept them lasting in an outhouse for 18 months.</blockquote></p> <p>Jim </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62455 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:51:56 +0000 LVK9 62455@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>If you look at the Monograph of Cimicidae and take the findings in the study and try to apply an average (just an average), at 70 degrees Fahrenheit a once feed female would last about 200 days and a male about 163 days. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62454 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:50:10 +0000 spideyjg 62454@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>65F was 277 days and 81F was 87 days so at 70F expect much closer to 277.</p> <p>There is no graph or study at every temp.</p> <p>Jim </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62453 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:38:53 +0000 kitep 62453@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>So how long at 70 degrees? </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62428 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:08:37 +0000 Nobugsonme 62428@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Videos of Dr. Miller, Dr. Potter and others at the event is <a href="http://bedbugger.com/2009/11/13/footage-from-the-recent-new-york-pest-expo-bed-bug-edition/">here.</a> </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62417 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:45:54 +0000 spideyjg 62417@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>DeathToAllBBs - 1 day ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62333">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite><br /> They live for only months? Not up to 1.5 years? They have data on that? Because that's actually much more encouraging than the 18 month lifespan we've previously been told.</p></blockquote> <p>The 18 months is based on controlled constant temp tests done in the 30's where at a constant 50F a BB 5th stage instar survived 485 days after a feeding. That is 1.3 years.</p> <p>Their survival under starvation is highly temperature dependant and in the video Dr. Miller emphasizes this fact.</p> <p>Under varying temps the life will vary. In those same 30's studies at 80F, 86 days was the max. 99F, 37days.</p> <p>A home is not a constant temp.</p> <p>Jim </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/new-here-and-need-some-serious-adviceconsoling-about-moving#post-62406 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:32:42 +0000 damaged 62406@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>My apologies, I didn't bring the bed with me... none of my furniture came with me, it's all furniture that she had for me here! </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/new-here-and-need-some-serious-adviceconsoling-about-moving#post-62404 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:31:10 +0000 MyWorstFear 62404@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I am a little confused here, so maybe a lot of people are as well. You say you had your things heat treated, but what about the pillow and that bed? </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bedbugs-and-stucco-ceilings#post-62402 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:31:38 +0000 Louise 62402@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>bed-bugscouk - 6 hours ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bedbugs-and-stucco-ceilings#post-62388">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite><br /> Bed bugs climb up glass first I have heard of it.<br /> Bed bugs can climb all put the smoothest of surfaces, in reality this means smooth glass and smooth plastic will contain them to an area.<br /> As much as I like the idea or mirrored ceilings all around I have to say its rather expensive to buy large single pieces of glass or mirror to place on a ceiling and very difficult to get them into the property. If you dont use a large single sheet the bugs will have a bee line (excuse the pun) down the sealant and your isolation is not effective.<br /> As for types of ceiling I am not aware of any that would reduce the mobility of bed bugs.<br /> Hope that clarifies.<br /> David Cain<br /> Bed Bugs Limited</p></blockquote> <p>Thank you (yet again!), David. It clarifies this issue very much. </p> <p>Ah, the relief...they *can't* climb glass. </p> <p>Even if the stucco ceilings are no problem for them. Sigh.</p> <p>Louise </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/new-here-and-need-some-serious-adviceconsoling-about-moving#post-62398 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:29:33 +0000 damaged 62398@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Thanks... she told me it would be my "baby" if I transferred them here and I don't have the financial resources to pay for any more treatments... if anyone could touch on the other issues in my post it would be greatly appreciated! </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/new-here-and-need-some-serious-adviceconsoling-about-moving#post-62397 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:18:44 +0000 parakeets 62397@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I'd vote for telling your sister since she might be a support through this ordeal. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bedbugs-and-stucco-ceilings#post-62392 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:31:17 +0000 cilecto 62392@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>…plus they can harbor in the gap between mirror and ceiling. Is there anything in the ceiling (like silica) that would be naturally repellent or harmful to our little friends? </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/new-here-and-need-some-serious-adviceconsoling-about-moving#post-62390 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:22:49 +0000 damaged 62390@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Hi Everybody, </p> <p>I'm new to this site and made a big mistake of moving into a house with a friend that had bed bugs in the basement but she had never been exposed to them sleeping upstairs. I woke up with the infamous linear pattern on my arm, and only slept in the bed one more night after that. I did EVERYTHING I was supposed to. Washed all my clothes and dried in hot water, placed them in garbage bags and carried them out to the deck immediately. All my belongings were placed in Rubbermaids or Clear Sealed bags. Poulin's pest control came in to do the initial house treatment on Thursday of last week, I brought my belongings on a truck to the heat vault at their location (it heats your things up to 140 degrees for 6 hours, the only "known" method to eliminate EVERYTHING including eggs). From there i treated the back of the truck and the tarp I used, used New bags to put everything in, and had it brought to my sister's house in the country where I am staying until the end of December. I go back and forth between here and my other sister's place when I work evenings in the city, and have been *very* careful. I returned here to the country after not sleeping here in the past five nights, with my things only delivered last night around 7pm where I brought them directly to my spot downstairs. For some reason I was worried, so I slept on the couch upstairs. When I went downstairs about an hour before sunrise this morning, I felt the need to inspect. When I turned my pillow over, I found a bed bug... ALIVE. Now keep in mind this is a brand new bed here, I did not bring any furniture over. My sister will KILL me if I carried them here, even though I did everything right. Am I going to have to go through extermination again?? Or was this one little tough guy that escaped everything? When I called Poulin's to speak with the Quality Control Supervisor he said he wouldn't normally be too concerned considering sometimes they can live for 5 days after crossing the product, but the fact that my belongings were in the heat vault and something may have survived does cause a little concern. He's planning on sending someone for an inspection today. I already can barely sleep even when I thought I was safe, now I feel so sick to my stomach that I may have to go through this all over again. Do I tell my sister? Does ANYONE have any advice for me? I'm going absolutely crazy, considering that I already suffer from OCD. Please help! </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bedbugs-and-stucco-ceilings#post-62388 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:07:09 +0000 bed-bugscouk 62388@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Bed bugs climb up glass first I have heard of it.</p> <p>Bed bugs can climb all put the smoothest of surfaces, in reality this means smooth glass and smooth plastic will contain them to an area.</p> <p>As much as I like the idea or mirrored ceilings all around I have to say its rather expensive to buy large single pieces of glass or mirror to place on a ceiling and very difficult to get them into the property. If you dont use a large single sheet the bugs will have a bee line (excuse the pun) down the sealant and your isolation is not effective.</p> <p>As for types of ceiling I am not aware of any that would reduce the mobility of bed bugs.</p> <p>Hope that clarifies.</p> <p>David Cain<br /> Bed Bugs Limited </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bedbugs-and-stucco-ceilings#post-62387 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:22:36 +0000 upagain 62387@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Same here, does this mean the tub is no longer a good place to inspect luggage etc? </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bedbugs-and-stucco-ceilings#post-62384 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:56:32 +0000 Louise 62384@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>bait - 21 hours ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bedbugs-and-stucco-ceilings#post-62303">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite></p> <p>I don't know about the crawling upside down part, but I believe it is generally understood nowadays that BBs are quite proficient climbers and can crawl on or up anything, including glass.</p> </blockquote> <p>What!? They can climb glass now, too? Ugh! When did this happen??? I had understood that shiny metal, glass and smooth plastic were the types of surfaces that they COULDN'T climb! Are you sure?</p> <p>Blah.</p> <p>Louise </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/help-with-bed-bugs-in-small-car#post-62383 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:50:25 +0000 cilecto 62383@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>How about asking a reputable PCO?</p> <p>(oops, SoCal beat me before I hit "submit") </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/help-with-bed-bugs-in-small-car#post-62382 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:30:27 +0000 buggyinsocal 62382@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>BuggyinLA,<br /> The taking the car to an autobody shop idea was mine. Or, rather, I stole it from Click and Clack, the car talk guys. I'm a regular <em>Car Talk</em> listener, and I distinctly remember a person calling in whose car had been infested with baby black widow spiders. The car guys made a lot of jokes, but didn't have a lot of suggestions. However, they called the person back on their "Stump the Chumps" segment, and the caller said she'd taken it to a 3 day auto body place to have it treated there.</p> <p>I wondered on the boards whether the same thing would work for bed bugs. Mind you, it's completely unproven, so you would be the guinea pig even if you could find someone who would do it after being properly informed (which is really important since, as an unproven technology, there's a greater chance of the bugs exiting the vehicle. Remember that part of the key to thermal treatment is the PCO raising the temp evenly within the "structure" and at a specific speed to avoid the bugs just fleeing out of the structure for cooler parts. When I proposed the "black widow spider fix" for cars, I didn't know as much about that as I do now, so I'm, if anything, more skeptical that it would work now than I was then. Even so, I am also curious, so if there were a safe way to test it, I'd love to see the experiment done. However, I also wouldn't want to push anyone into being the guinea pig without informing him or her clearly that that's what was going on, and I'm not a PCO or an auto body shop owner, so . . . you know. Take that for what it's worth.)</p> <p>You also might talk to Lloyds down in San Diego. I know that's a drive (esp. on a Friday or a Sunday), but I believe Lloyds does chamber treatment, and I'm not sure I've heard of anyone in the greater Los Angeles area who does. (Mind you, I haven't been looking, but I do keep an ear to the boards for that info. So please feel free to tell me if you've found someone.)</p> <p>Even if you don't want to drive to San Diego to have the car treated, Lloyds might have some suggestions for you about places up here that would have the facilities to treat a car with thermal or Vikane up here.</p> <p>Jun8k,<br /> If you don't sell the product you're talking about or profit from someone else's sales, you're more than welcome to post the product's name here. You'll note that, for example, in my posts I've given the name of the PCO I used and some products like DDVP strips that I used in a slightly off label fashion (also with very clear specific details about the safety precautions I took with them.)</p> <p>Sharing information about products, if you're not selling them, isn't a problem. </p> <p>The problem arises when people pimp certain products as a cure all without also outlining the downsides.</p> <p>The are only two parts of your post that might be read as problematic at all that I would raise questions about.</p> <p>First, are you absolutely sure that what was biting you was bed bugs in the first place? There are a lot of other sources of mystery bites, so I personally wouldn't recommend to readers any process for getting rid of bed bugs if I wasn't sure that I'd had bed bugs in the first place (a confirmed ID by a PCO or entomologist so that it's not bird mites, carpet beetles, fleas, etc.).</p> <p>In addition, I would want to be sure that I and any adjacent units in my building (if I lived in a multi unit building) had been 100% free of bed bugs for at least 55 days if not two months.</p> <p>The problem with using repellents is that a lot of people don't react to bed bug bites. Repellents can drive bed bugs to neighboring units (there's some proof that the bugs are more likely to migrate to a unit above or below yours than the ones next door) or drive an infestation deeper and make it harder to get rid of.</p> <p>I haven't read your other post, so I'm not sure what it says, and I really have to leave for work soon, but I would point out that in this post, you haven't given us clear confirmation that you had a positive bed bug ID in the first place nor have you provided any proof that you've been bed bug free for two months and that either all neighboring units are clear or that you live in a single family non-attached home.</p> <p>If all of those criteria are met, I'd love to hear what you used. However, if lemongrass does mimic bed bugs' alarm scent, that's actually a very bad thing for anything you're using on bed bugs. Mimicking an alarm scent is definitely to be avoided since the alarm scent is one of the things that will drive an infestation deeper and make it more likely to spread, harder to get rid of, harder to detect, and generally much harder to treat when the sufferer finds out that self treatment did not, in fact, work, and then has to call in a PCO to deal with an infestation that is now going to be more expensive to treat and take longer to get rid of. So from where I sit, any over the counter treatment can do harm if it's ineffective, which is why so many people here debunk any products that are claimed to be effective instead of just going "Eh, no big deal. It might not work, but it's not going to hurt anything." When it comes to bed bugs, things that don't work (or that appear to work at first but make things worse in the long run) can do harm even if they are all natural. (For example, a lot of people think of DE as a magic, totally safe cure-all, but used improperly, it can cause serious health problems.) </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/help-with-bed-bugs-in-small-car#post-62381 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:43:15 +0000 bugfreebed 62381@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>What about trying to run the night watch in your car for three weeks ??? I'm not sure if theres any precautions you would need to take so do a little research but it could do the trick ... The nights need to still be warm or have the night watch go of during the day when its warmer they move allot slower the lower you get below 60 </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/help-with-bed-bugs-in-small-car#post-62378 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:43:02 +0000 jun8k 62378@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Hey I have or had bed bugs in my home. Haven't seen any lately so hopefully they're gone. Anyway I have been using this all natural bed bug repellent / killer (not exclusively of course). It seems to work well.<br /> There is a room in the house where someone was getting some bites. A room other than the main room that was infested. I sprayed this stuff around the bed and the person stopped getting bites. I also sprayed it in other areas and it seems to work well. Anyway it's all natural. A little paranoid of posting the name and such as to be taken as advertising it. But it's all natural, it has lemongrass, clove, peppermint, and cinnamon oils. Smells very strong but smells pretty good. I bought it at a big chain store that is probably all across the country that has to do with BED stuff. How many are there? I'm in CA so you probably have the store where you are at least! I went to a small store in this chain and they didn't have it. I went to one of this chains bigger stores and they had it in stock. Anyway it seems to work well for me! Maybe if you spray the entire inside of your car with it they will exit your car. I read that lemongrass mimics bed bugs alarm scent. Anyway it seems to work well for me. The stuff cost $10 a bottle so it's not a big risk I guess.<br /> If you get it, I would spray the car at some point a while before you have to drive it. The smell is kind of strong. You also wouldn't want them to try to leave the car, and crawl onto you while you're driving! Also it might make the seats a little wet so you'd want it to dry before driving. You don't need a lot. You don't need to soak the seats or anything!<br /> I don't work at or for this chain, or for the company that makes the stuff! I own a record store actually. I thought this might help you. If it works let me know. I know that bed bugs are a pain to deal with! I hope you get rid of them successfully! </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/cancel-second-treatment-by-nybedbug-dog-what-to-do-next#post-62375 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:11:15 +0000 Nobugsonme 62375@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>I edited some of the post above as a possible FAQ on bed bug k9s. I don't want to discuss that idea here (especially since I was reminding others to stay focused on the original poster's questions), so <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bed-bug-k9-faq-comments-welcomed#post-62374">please go to this thread</a> if you want to comment on my post in terms of its accuracy. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/cancel-second-treatment-by-nybedbug-dog-what-to-do-next#post-62373 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:51:22 +0000 Nobugsonme 62373@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <blockquote><p><cite>btaggart - 9 hours ago <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/cancel-second-treatment-by-nybedbug-dog-what-to-do-next#post-62293">&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</a></cite><br /> a certified canine team can definitely help to verify control measures were effective.</p> </blockquote> <p><strong>Note to readers:</strong></p> <p>I believe there are both certified and uncertified bed bug k9 teams which are effective, and where the handler searches for the bed bug the dog has alerted to.</p> <p>My understanding is that there are two main trainers of bed bug k9s in the USA (Pepe Peruyero and Bill Whitstine), that they have differing approaches, and that Bedbugger readers have at time praised dogs from each trainer. (There are also independent trainers.)</p> <p>On the other hand, people have had issues with bed bug k9 inspections, for example, where a dog alerted but the sample was not confirmed, and then an "all clear" was given and LATER it became apparent that there were bed bugs. It happens, presumably even to the most effective dogs and teams.</p> <p>To the customer, this means a great deal of frustration. I have seen some Bedbugger Forum readers hire one dog after another, getting different results from each.</p> <p>Your best bet may be a handler who searches for a visual confirmation of any dog alert.</p> <p>If you're reading recommendations about particular dogs on the forums, do remember that people who work in the bed bug k9 industry may not be unbiased in this matter. PCOs who have a connection with a particular handler may not be biased. And many customers aren't either.</p> <p>Imagine a dog did correctly assess whether or not you have bed bugs. You go and post a review of your great dog team! A dog team that is only 50% accurate will have 5 happy customers and 5 who may be happy for a while, or not.</p> <p>You have no way of knowing if reviews are coming from a happy customer whose dog team was 50% accurate, or one which was 95% accurate. </p> <p>If your handler visually tries to confirm an alert, you may still not have a definitive answer whether you have bed bugs or not. However, it is arguably better to be unsure whether you have bed bugs than to get an "all clear" in error.</p> <p>-----</p> <p><strong>Note to btaggart and Doug Summers and anyone else connected with the bed bug k9s business:</strong></p> <p>With respect,</p> <p>Please restrict your comments to questions the bed bug sufferers have asked, as opposed to carrying on a discussion of your industry. </p> <p>I know there are important issues involved there, but rehashing them when people ask about what they should do about a bed bug inspection situation may confuse many of our readers.</p> <p>You are welcome to start a thread about the debates going on in the bed bug k9 industry, but I would like to label it carefully as such and keep the discussion there.</p> <p>We do not as yet have an official policy on discussions about the bed bug k9 industry, and I am not declaring one now, however, it's best if you can try to follow this recommendation to avoid confusing people who are looking for help. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62333 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:45:57 +0000 DeathToAllBBs 62333@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>They live for only months? Not up to 1.5 years? They have data on that? Because that's actually much more encouraging than the 18 month lifespan we've previously been told. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bedbugs-and-stucco-ceilings#post-62303 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:12:56 +0000 bait 62303@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Mirrors - cute.</p> <p>I don't know about the crawling upside down part, but I believe it is generally understood nowadays that BBs are quite proficient climbers and can crawl on or up anything, including glass. </p> <p>A stucco ceiling may allow for harborage in the nooks and crannies.</p> <p>One person on this forum reported putting double back tape up on her ceiling to discourage paratrooping bedbugs. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62301 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:01:18 +0000 bait 62301@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Great report. </p> <p>I've said it before, I'll say it again. We won't get a handle on the problem until we understand it. We have much misinformation. We need science!</p> <p>What a difference a year makes. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/latest-information-from-the-bug-off-seminar-with-drs-potter-and-miller#post-62297 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:40:22 +0000 jeffklein 62297@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>Just a quick report on some of the things we learned at the bug off seminar this week. I think one of the most surprising things was the fact that bed bugs no longer live for a year and a half without a blood meal. They're now saying based on lab studies that it's only several months. How things change. The most disturbing facts to come out of the seminar was how poorly our liquid pesticides are working. And unfortunately there doesn't look to any wonderful products coming down the pike any time soon. A couple of bright spots with product is Phantom insecticide, Transport insecticide and Temprid insecticide as well as the dusts. Gentrol wasn't mentioned much so I am assuming that based on increased egg production as well as increased mortality it's a wash. Temprid is not labeled for use in New York but Transport and Phantom are. The main issue is Phantom's long period of time before control is achieved. In several studies it shows it can take up to several months. The dusts on the other hand are where I believe we should be focusing our attention. There wasn't much difference in mortality rates and times between Drione, DE, and Tempo 1% dust. Aside from chemical there were three other methods mentioned one was heat, one was fumigation, and one was freezing. Both doctors agreed that heat and fumigation were the most effective and that cryonite is a tool although it has no penetration ability. I think everybody here knows that I am partial to heat. Dr. Potter stated that there's less than 1% of companies in the country that are currently using these methods. I think another fact that it makes the bed bug scenario nightmarish is that they are stating that 28% of people that are infested have no clue that they actually are. One of the things that Dr. Potter mentioned is how people are amazed at how after 50 years bed bugs are back with a vengeance. Dr. Potter is amazed that for the last 50 years bed bugs have not been problem. I think that is the most telling statement of all. </p> http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/cancel-second-treatment-by-nybedbug-dog-what-to-do-next#post-62293 Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:32:54 +0000 btaggart 62293@http://bedbugger.com/forum/ <p>a certified canine team can definitely help to verify control measures were effective. one question that you should ask a team is if the canine is trained to alert to live bugs and viable eggs only. This is important especially if you are trying to confirm eradication </p>