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	<title>Comments on: Consumers, before you hire one, find out what that bed bug dog can do!</title>
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	<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/</link>
	<description>bed bug news, information, activism, and support</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 13:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bedbugdogexpert</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-10172</link>
		<dc:creator>bedbugdogexpert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-10172</guid>
		<description>There is no correlation between effective bed bug detection k9s and licensed PCO individuals or entomologist.Developing standards for bed bug detection dogs are no harder to create than, is a cheese omlett. Lets get real, all scent detection and dicrimation standards for the pourposes of certifying a scent detection K-9 were established by law enforcment agencies back in the late 1980's. The triaining of scent discrimination and detection tasks for K9s on bed bugs is no different from that of a drug K9. I would question the envolvement of any entolmologist in establishing certification standards for bed bug detection K9s. The correlation only has relivence if the respecttive entomologist or PCO technician had a personal and lengthy experiance, in not only training k9s but, training K9 handlers, as well. Having a "certified K9 from an orginization that polices and certifies itself and oversees the certification process seems questionalbe at the very least. All police and fire agencies have their service K9's go through certification by independent agencies out side of their respective agencies and orginizations. This eliminates the potential for politics or impropriety to enter in to the process. NESDCA does not do this. NESDCA has their own members who are licensed PCO's, perform the certification and re-certification process. There for their,K9 certification process in my estimation has no relivence. NESDCA needs to have it's K9 handlers find an independent orginization to certify their K9's  

bedbugdogexpert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no correlation between effective bed bug detection k9s and licensed PCO individuals or entomologist.Developing standards for bed bug detection dogs are no harder to create than, is a cheese omlett. Lets get real, all scent detection and dicrimation standards for the pourposes of certifying a scent detection K-9 were established by law enforcment agencies back in the late 1980&#8217;s. The triaining of scent discrimination and detection tasks for K9s on bed bugs is no different from that of a drug K9. I would question the envolvement of any entolmologist in establishing certification standards for bed bug detection K9s. The correlation only has relivence if the respecttive entomologist or PCO technician had a personal and lengthy experiance, in not only training k9s but, training K9 handlers, as well. Having a &#8220;certified K9 from an orginization that polices and certifies itself and oversees the certification process seems questionalbe at the very least. All police and fire agencies have their service K9&#8217;s go through certification by independent agencies out side of their respective agencies and orginizations. This eliminates the potential for politics or impropriety to enter in to the process. NESDCA does not do this. NESDCA has their own members who are licensed PCO&#8217;s, perform the certification and re-certification process. There for their,K9 certification process in my estimation has no relivence. NESDCA needs to have it&#8217;s K9 handlers find an independent orginization to certify their K9&#8217;s  </p>
<p>bedbugdogexpert</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5850</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 00:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5850</guid>
		<description>Great site and a great discussion.  I tend to be on the side of certified dogs and handlers.  You all know better than me how time intensive and difficult full eradication of bedbugs can be.  They are quite a pesky problem that provoke stong emotions in those with the problem.  I first encountered them while in the military.  Slept in a building that was heavily infested and in two nights had so many bites I was misdiagnosed for a couple of hours with small pox.  It took a couple of weeks for my skin to return to normal.

The dogs appear to be less than perfect but my experience in watching a termite dog work -  they are exponentially better than humans alone and as was mentioned above much faster.  NESDCA should bring this method to better use by  consumers and provide a greater confidence level.  It is not an inexpensive proposition for the business owner to provide this service.  It requires or should require time to learn the procedure, then the cost and maintenance of the dog or dogs, and periodic recertification etc...  
In the field of medicine we require and expect this type of dedication and certification.  Eventually, this increased standard will bring better and faster results for consumers. But it will probably mean many smaller operators will be out of certain aspects of pest control unless they subcontract for the use of such dogs.  I applaud these pioneers and many more will do so also if bedbugs and other pests become the problem many predict they will be in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great site and a great discussion.  I tend to be on the side of certified dogs and handlers.  You all know better than me how time intensive and difficult full eradication of bedbugs can be.  They are quite a pesky problem that provoke stong emotions in those with the problem.  I first encountered them while in the military.  Slept in a building that was heavily infested and in two nights had so many bites I was misdiagnosed for a couple of hours with small pox.  It took a couple of weeks for my skin to return to normal.</p>
<p>The dogs appear to be less than perfect but my experience in watching a termite dog work -  they are exponentially better than humans alone and as was mentioned above much faster.  NESDCA should bring this method to better use by  consumers and provide a greater confidence level.  It is not an inexpensive proposition for the business owner to provide this service.  It requires or should require time to learn the procedure, then the cost and maintenance of the dog or dogs, and periodic recertification etc&#8230;<br />
In the field of medicine we require and expect this type of dedication and certification.  Eventually, this increased standard will bring better and faster results for consumers. But it will probably mean many smaller operators will be out of certain aspects of pest control unless they subcontract for the use of such dogs.  I applaud these pioneers and many more will do so also if bedbugs and other pests become the problem many predict they will be in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: joenobugs</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5811</link>
		<dc:creator>joenobugs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5811</guid>
		<description>Here is a related article I saw in PCT magazine it also mentions NESDCA 
http://pct.texterity.com/pct/200708/  go there and then click Four-Legged Bed Bug Detectives on the left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a related article I saw in PCT magazine it also mentions NESDCA<br />
<a href="http://pct.texterity.com/pct/200708/" rel="nofollow">http://pct.texterity.com/pct/200708/</a>  go there and then click Four-Legged Bed Bug Detectives on the left.</p>
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		<title>By: Winston O. Buggy</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5490</link>
		<dc:creator>Winston O. Buggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5490</guid>
		<description>The art of using bed bug detection dogs in the fullest sense is a
work in progress. And it's always encouraging to see intelligent
dialoge between commited professionals. 
Arrf barked Sandy, but what does it mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The art of using bed bug detection dogs in the fullest sense is a<br />
work in progress. And it&#8217;s always encouraging to see intelligent<br />
dialoge between commited professionals.<br />
Arrf barked Sandy, but what does it mean?</p>
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		<title>By: SPDIBBK9Handler</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5477</link>
		<dc:creator>SPDIBBK9Handler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5477</guid>
		<description>NOTE: I am moving this response I gave to Richard Cooper's post from the forum area where it was to this area at the suggestion of nobugsonme. The aside to buggeroff I am leaving in as I think it flows into the general conversation. To see buggeroff's comments that led to that response, please refer to the forum area. 

Richard,

I hate to do this, but I must respectfully disagree with you on some points. In regards to claims of 90%+ accuracy, the certification standards developed by NESDCA REQUIRE at a minimum, a 90% accuracy rate. To date there are several dogs that have certified meeting that accuracy standard. It is true that the market has been flooded with dogs trained to a much lower standard, and it is very difficult for the end consumer to tell the difference by simply looking at a dog or talking to a handler which dog is which. It may be those dogs that your are referring to. That goes to the very core of why NESDCA was formed. Will every dog perform well above that 90% mark every inspection? The simple answer is no. But even if a dog meets the minimum standard of 90%, you are looking at a tool at least twice as effective as a human inspector alone. And several orders of magnitude faster.

buggeroff, as an aside, I believe it is Customs dogs that are REQUIRED by their standards to be 100% accurate. So it certainly can be done. It is expensive, and time consuming, and huge numbers of dogs wash out. That is the difference between 90%, 95%, and 100%... it an almost exponential growth in cost vs. return. What any particular task requires is determining where the point of diminishing returns reaches the point of "good enough". If it a dog that is dealing with a life or death situation, I want that 100% dog a bunch more than I do a 90% dog. If it is termites or bedbugs, honestly, 90% is probably a very reasonable expectation.

As to the multiple dogs with multiple handlers... I agree there is a very real need for 2 dogs. I see no reason you need multiple handlers. The truth is, even with 1 dog you could in theory work out a decent protocol to deal with the threat of a false alert.. something along the lines of barring visual evidence at the location of the hit, returning on a different day and just working that area. But this increases the labor cost by a huge factor. The biggest cost in any inspection or treatment practice is not really the dog. It is the handler and the associated labor cost. With two dogs and 1 handler, you reduce that labor cost (at an increase in fixed cost), and still can get the confirmation on the hit. I guess this debate on 1 or 2 handlers could fall under the category of getting a certainty factor of 98% instead of 90-95%.. but at a 100% increase in the cost.

From a marketability standpoint, there is no way hotels would pay the added cost, and while the very wealthy residential customer could foot the bill, most of the discussions I see on this forum are on how to get costs of treatment and inspections down to the level of affordable for most.

Richard, I very much respect your opinion, even if I differ from it on this topic. You certainly also hold many people's respect for your ethical standards. I certainly look forward to seeing you in Las Vegas in a few weeks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NOTE: I am moving this response I gave to Richard Cooper&#8217;s post from the forum area where it was to this area at the suggestion of nobugsonme. The aside to buggeroff I am leaving in as I think it flows into the general conversation. To see buggeroff&#8217;s comments that led to that response, please refer to the forum area. </p>
<p>Richard,</p>
<p>I hate to do this, but I must respectfully disagree with you on some points. In regards to claims of 90%+ accuracy, the certification standards developed by NESDCA REQUIRE at a minimum, a 90% accuracy rate. To date there are several dogs that have certified meeting that accuracy standard. It is true that the market has been flooded with dogs trained to a much lower standard, and it is very difficult for the end consumer to tell the difference by simply looking at a dog or talking to a handler which dog is which. It may be those dogs that your are referring to. That goes to the very core of why NESDCA was formed. Will every dog perform well above that 90% mark every inspection? The simple answer is no. But even if a dog meets the minimum standard of 90%, you are looking at a tool at least twice as effective as a human inspector alone. And several orders of magnitude faster.</p>
<p>buggeroff, as an aside, I believe it is Customs dogs that are REQUIRED by their standards to be 100% accurate. So it certainly can be done. It is expensive, and time consuming, and huge numbers of dogs wash out. That is the difference between 90%, 95%, and 100%&#8230; it an almost exponential growth in cost vs. return. What any particular task requires is determining where the point of diminishing returns reaches the point of &#8220;good enough&#8221;. If it a dog that is dealing with a life or death situation, I want that 100% dog a bunch more than I do a 90% dog. If it is termites or bedbugs, honestly, 90% is probably a very reasonable expectation.</p>
<p>As to the multiple dogs with multiple handlers&#8230; I agree there is a very real need for 2 dogs. I see no reason you need multiple handlers. The truth is, even with 1 dog you could in theory work out a decent protocol to deal with the threat of a false alert.. something along the lines of barring visual evidence at the location of the hit, returning on a different day and just working that area. But this increases the labor cost by a huge factor. The biggest cost in any inspection or treatment practice is not really the dog. It is the handler and the associated labor cost. With two dogs and 1 handler, you reduce that labor cost (at an increase in fixed cost), and still can get the confirmation on the hit. I guess this debate on 1 or 2 handlers could fall under the category of getting a certainty factor of 98% instead of 90-95%.. but at a 100% increase in the cost.</p>
<p>From a marketability standpoint, there is no way hotels would pay the added cost, and while the very wealthy residential customer could foot the bill, most of the discussions I see on this forum are on how to get costs of treatment and inspections down to the level of affordable for most.</p>
<p>Richard, I very much respect your opinion, even if I differ from it on this topic. You certainly also hold many people&#8217;s respect for your ethical standards. I certainly look forward to seeing you in Las Vegas in a few weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Cooper</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5458</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5458</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;(Editor's note: Richard Cooper asked me to remove the message he left here, which was in response to something on the forums, and to replace it with the following, which is in response to this thread.  Nobugs.)&lt;/em&gt;

There have been comments on the bedbugger site about Cooper Pest Solutions returning a bed bug dog. We spent a number of months evaluating a bed bug sniffing dog and did in fact return it once our evaluation was complete. Our assessment of the inspection technique is that we believe it can be a highly effective method if the dog has been trained correctly and is handled correctly. In addition, we also believe that a two dog system for verification purposes is also necessary to better address the subject of false alerts. I recently had a discussion with a dog trainer in Florida who made the point that in order to truly address the false alert issue you need to use two different handlers in addition to two different dogs which I would fully concur with. The question becomes how much assurance do you want in your results and how much are you willing to pay for the increased level of assurance? Suffice it so say, if my organization chooses to offer bed bug dog detection services it will be with a two dog system. I have the utmost confidence in the trainer that we worked with (J&#038;K Canine Academy) and would work with them again in the future should we decide to move forward with canine scent detection for bed bugs.

Richard Cooper
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>(Editor&#8217;s note: Richard Cooper asked me to remove the message he left here, which was in response to something on the forums, and to replace it with the following, which is in response to this thread.  Nobugs.)</em></p>
<p>There have been comments on the bedbugger site about Cooper Pest Solutions returning a bed bug dog. We spent a number of months evaluating a bed bug sniffing dog and did in fact return it once our evaluation was complete. Our assessment of the inspection technique is that we believe it can be a highly effective method if the dog has been trained correctly and is handled correctly. In addition, we also believe that a two dog system for verification purposes is also necessary to better address the subject of false alerts. I recently had a discussion with a dog trainer in Florida who made the point that in order to truly address the false alert issue you need to use two different handlers in addition to two different dogs which I would fully concur with. The question becomes how much assurance do you want in your results and how much are you willing to pay for the increased level of assurance? Suffice it so say, if my organization chooses to offer bed bug dog detection services it will be with a two dog system. I have the utmost confidence in the trainer that we worked with (J&#038;K Canine Academy) and would work with them again in the future should we decide to move forward with canine scent detection for bed bugs.</p>
<p>Richard Cooper</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5383</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5383</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Winston!

I appreciate the participation of K9Handler and Sam Smith.  I hope you'll come back and participate any time.

Sam--I will link to the nesdca.com site, and I hope you will link to Bedbugger too.  We all benefit from more interaction--here, there, and everywhere.*




&lt;em&gt;*At Bedbugger you get extra points for comments quoting Beatles lyrics, in context, of course.&lt;/e,&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Winston!</p>
<p>I appreciate the participation of K9Handler and Sam Smith.  I hope you&#8217;ll come back and participate any time.</p>
<p>Sam&#8211;I will link to the nesdca.com site, and I hope you will link to Bedbugger too.  We all benefit from more interaction&#8211;here, there, and everywhere.*</p>
<p><em>*At Bedbugger you get extra points for comments quoting Beatles lyrics, in context, of course.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Winston O. Buggy</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5378</link>
		<dc:creator>Winston O. Buggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5378</guid>
		<description>Well since I started this off thirty comments ago, you can see the myriad of issues that
come into play as with most bed bug related issues there are no simple answers. Bed
bug dog handlers are a professional group of people who need to make a living too.
I think they can provide us with a great tool in determining infestations, especially
in large commercial or residential settings. As stated at the outset the concerns in regard to this are one of the reasons to support NESDCA. And of course it also points out what a great far reaching and diverse community this site has as the premier bed bug web site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well since I started this off thirty comments ago, you can see the myriad of issues that<br />
come into play as with most bed bug related issues there are no simple answers. Bed<br />
bug dog handlers are a professional group of people who need to make a living too.<br />
I think they can provide us with a great tool in determining infestations, especially<br />
in large commercial or residential settings. As stated at the outset the concerns in regard to this are one of the reasons to support NESDCA. And of course it also points out what a great far reaching and diverse community this site has as the premier bed bug web site.</p>
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		<title>By: Bugalina</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5377</link>
		<dc:creator>Bugalina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5377</guid>
		<description>I guess its a matter of trust !!  I would like to see any Hotel that I stayed in , have a bed bug scent dog in the lobby.  I would like to see bed bug scent dogs on airplanes...  I appreciate the insightful comments of hopelessnomo....and I hope Mr. Smith has the good intentions that he says he does.  Lord knows we need all the help we can get in this fight against bed bugs, however when people are desperate they can be easily taken advantage of...So its a matter of  good will and trust.  One bad apple can spoil the barrel...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess its a matter of trust !!  I would like to see any Hotel that I stayed in , have a bed bug scent dog in the lobby.  I would like to see bed bug scent dogs on airplanes&#8230;  I appreciate the insightful comments of hopelessnomo&#8230;.and I hope Mr. Smith has the good intentions that he says he does.  Lord knows we need all the help we can get in this fight against bed bugs, however when people are desperate they can be easily taken advantage of&#8230;So its a matter of  good will and trust.  One bad apple can spoil the barrel&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: joenobugs</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5374</link>
		<dc:creator>joenobugs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/14/consumers-before-you-hire-one-find-out-what-that-bed-bug-dog-can-do/#comment-5374</guid>
		<description>Some people have to get the last word! 

Keep up the good work NESDCA. It is clear to me and others what your agenda is and we applaud you for taking the first step to making sure the public has a choice (a good choice) when it comes to K-9 Inspections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people have to get the last word! </p>
<p>Keep up the good work NESDCA. It is clear to me and others what your agenda is and we applaud you for taking the first step to making sure the public has a choice (a good choice) when it comes to K-9 Inspections.</p>
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