“We have to have a bed bug state of mind,” says Michael Potter at Bed Bug Control Seminar yesterday

by nobugsonme on August 8, 2007 · 31 comments

in bed bug blame game, bed bug epidemic, bed bug treatment, bed bugs, legal aspects of bed bugs, new york, spread of bed bugs, tools and weapons, usa

Yesterday, there was a Bed Bug Control Seminar, sponsored by Pest Control Technology magazine, and held in the Park Central Hotel, Manhattan.

Journalist Sarah Ferguson dropped me an email to let me know that her Village Voice article on the seminar was up, here.

As expected, the bed bug news is not good:

“We have to be in an absolute bed bug state of mind,” warned Dr.
Michael Potter, an entomologist at the University of Kentucky and leading expert in the now global bed bug war, with no apologies to Billy Joel. “This problem is not going to go away. I don’t see how the problem is going to get better. It’s going to get chaotic.”

Potter came equipped with a PowerPoint presentation and tales of bed bugs “oozing their way” through hospitals, nursing homes, movie theaters, drycleaners, Laundromats, schools, and all manner of dwelling spaces.

“Probably every major university in the U.S. has bed bugs in its dormitories,” he said. He flashed a particularly disheartening slide of an infested mattress in the “heart transplant wing of a major urban hospital.”

There were also entomologists and PCOs talking about pesticide-resistance, and rental property owners trying to cover their backsides:

One property owner wanted to know whether tenants could be sued for bringing the evil critters into a building—a notion that, given the rates of infestation in parts of NYC—struck us a little like suing for getting the flu.

The ‘flu analogy is an apt one we’ve often made ourselves.

“You’d have to be pretty confident that tenant was the cause,” responded Denise McCurry, an attorney for MGM Mirage resorts and casinos in Las Vegas, who was flown in to address the mounting liability issues faced by property owners and their exterminators. “And remember,” McCurry added, “the tenant is not likely to have a lot of money.”

As we keep saying, the blame game just does not work with bed bugs. (Click here for previous articles discussing the limits of the bed bug blame game.) Everyone is not allergic to the bites, and those who are allergic to bites generally notice bed bugs first, regardless of whose infestation actually started first. Those not allergic to bed bugs are the last they know they have them, and so very likely to spread them, as appears to have happened in Amanda’s case, covered on apartmenttherapy.com. But even in that case, as far as AT readers know, at least, there is no proof the bed bug infestation started with the “cute neighbor.” Who knows how many others in the building are infested. We’ve even heard of bed bugs being transmitted from one building to another via a shared wall.

Sarah welcomes you, and I encourage you, to leave a comment on the article.

This was mine:

I sorely wish that the NYC government would heed Dr. Michael Potter’s warnings about how bad bed bugs are and how much worse they’re going to get.

Most people in NYC with bed bugs, once they realize or suspect the problem, call their landlord, or a pest control operator.

Unfortunately, the city of NYC bases its statistics of how many new yorkers have bed bugs on how many people call 311, the city’s question and complaint hotline, to report bed bugs.

Since no homeowners, and few renters actually call 311 to report an infestation, the city’s statistics are very skewed.

When NYC undertakes a real study of how many homes pest control operators treat for bed bugs, as Toronto did in 2003, they will be very surprised to find out how widespread the problem is.

Unfortunately, Bloomberg prefers to pretend they are a minor problem, like cockroaches. When they finally spread to almost every building and almost every workplace, it will be too late to enact changes to halt their spread. Not only do we need a public education campaign, and a required-by-law service for picking up bed bug-infested refuse (as per the article), we need systems for tracking bed bug infestations, and better systems for dealing with renter’s complaints. Most people won’t call 311, I am told everyday, because they don’t want a bad reference from their landlord.

Until reporting bed bugs to the city is divorced from reporting a housing violation, we are not going to know how many people are infested.

I’d love to hear from anyone who was at the Bed BUg Control Seminar–what did you find interesting or new, that we should know about?

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1 S August 9, 2007 at 4:53 pm

I wrote this comment in response to the article. It should post whenever they ‘approve’ it:

Thank you for this well-written article. Glad to hear the conference had high-quality speakers and advice. New York is leading the US infestation; hopefully New York will lead the eradication.

The bedbug business is indeed growing in the US, although apparently most chemical manufacturers still view it as “niche” and not a large enough market to merit investments in research and testing. Sadly, the market will have to grow before it becomes viable for large companies.

If I were an entrepreneur, I would start a bedbug moving service. When you are living with bedbugs, your home becomes hostile. It’s very difficult to ever feel comfortable there again. So moving begins to feel like the answer. However, moving WITHOUT bringing bedbugs with you is an insane, tedious, stressful and yet often unsuccessful task.

My service would be like regular movers, but with an intermediary step. Men would enter your home, take all your belongings, and pack them in an airtight moving truck. The vehicle would be gassed with Vikane, which kills all bugs and eggs. Then, my team would move your belongings into your new home, bedbug-free.

I would pay a thousand dollars for this service, tomorrow, and not think twice. I believe others would too.

Regardless, I wish more professionals would start trying to make money off solving the bedbug problem. We need all the help we can get.

2 Winston O. Buggy August 9, 2007 at 6:17 pm

A thousand dollars, the fumigation alone could easily be $800. Average moving another $500 – $1000. Not to mention the extra care you would need to take packaging things for fumigation or that some things can not be fumigated.
Again not including the fact that you now have your moving truck tied up while fumigating. Now what do you do to be sure the new location is bed bug free.

Please understand I’m not trying to be negative I think it would be a valuable service but you have to be realistic in price. And ask how many folks would be willing to pay say $ 2500 – $3000. Not to mention how many would actually pay it.
PS I think women would do a better job at preparing and packing.

3 Bugalina August 9, 2007 at 6:17 pm

S….I feel your bed bug pain…I too wrote a response. Everyday I wake up with renewed hope that life can return to what it was pre bed bug days. Its like, once you have experienced a bed bug infestation you are branded.. Your service idea is terrific, but don’t forget, that after you get rid of them you have to keep on your toes so that they won’t return…this is what I mean when i say that they brand us…they leave us with physical and mental marks.

4 hopelessnomo August 9, 2007 at 7:28 pm

I think women would (do) make better pest control technicians! (I wonder why there aren’t more of them. While I’m being sexist, can I speculate that… never mind. Someone talked to Cindy Mannes re Ratatouille and asked her about women in the industry, last question. Pest control is probably a family thing, like cops?)

I wonder how this is going to play out. Solutions and public education campaigns will probably not come from the public health sector (despite the horrifying heart transplant unit mattress story) because of the “bed bugs are just a nuisance” judgment. (Although perhaps they will in other countries. Australia seems not to be bothered by the fact that bed bugs are not disease vectors. I’m hoping a socialist democracy somewhere in the world will devote serious resources to this.)

Solutions probably also won’t come from the pesticide industry. We are repeatedly told not to expect magic bullets, and by now I think I believe them. I am always skeptical of the suggestion that the hospitality industry will assume a leadership role. I think they will be extremely creative in devising liability defense strategies but not much more.

James just reminded us in another thread that we’re not even close to achieving critical mass with an itchy population. So, grass-roots, maybe but not for a while.

That leaves a) advances in non-pesticide strategies and b) accidents. A certain famous chemical we should try to resist getting into was first used to prevent Allied soldiers dying of typhus by the boatload. Killing bed bugs with it must have been like opening Christmas presents, joy, joy. But that Christmas is in the past.

So, I’m rooting for accidents.

5 nobugsonme August 10, 2007 at 1:17 am

I loved the CIndy Mannes interview, thanks Nomo!

Seriously, they’re talking PCO/entomologist reality show? Very cool. I wonder if we know anybody who would want to do something like that???

6 Bugalina August 10, 2007 at 6:13 am

Is this serious..a PCO reality Show….I don’t know if I should throw up….laugh…be happy …or invest !!! Bugalina

7 hymenoptera August 10, 2007 at 8:52 am

Having previously been interviewed for this or a similar show (they even came and did test shots) although exciting and enticing we declined. Why u may ask? Well these are some of the reasons. 1. We are a regulated industry and any footage could be misinterpreted.
2. Often times over the years we are contacted by press who ask
to interview or film someone with a pest problem 9 times out of 10 folks don’t
want to be interviewed and certainly not photographed. (BB victims seem a little
more forthcoming and some more than others). My favorite was Good Morning
who wanted a wealthy person with a realy infested apartment, yeah like thats gonna happen. Also rats for the most part do not cooperate with film crews.
3. The show was interested in office and technician rifts and problems with
customers. SENSATIONALISM
Little things like defamation of character come to mind not to mention what a blow
this would be to customer relations when a tech leaves a stop and makes a dispariging comment or even a positive one about a cute gal or guy in that last apartment. 4. They would not allow us final editing rights.
5. Office personnel decided this should be extra ……….
So as a professional firm with many years experience and good reputation we declined the offer to compete with Dog and Orange County Choppers. Not that I have anything against OCC but it’s not a show format I choose.
Dirty jobs on the other hand has portrayed pest control several times in a controlled format.

8 Bugalina August 10, 2007 at 9:05 am

hymenoptera…..I for one, am very glad you declined. Hollywood surely would want to make a carictature out of the business and this is a business that must maintain a sense of trust and respect. However, remembering back on my verbal disputes with PCO’s and my overwhelming sense of doom that bugs had taken over our home, I think this footage would have made for much better viewing than Bridezilla !!! A close up shot of my face would put terror into the hearts of all those who still go to hotels and don’t think it will happen to them. You are 100% correct, they would have gone for sensationalism and nothing else..

9 S August 10, 2007 at 10:01 am

Winston, thanks for the tip and you’re totally right. I have spent about $2500 on bedbugs so far. So sure, make this service $3000. I’d still pay it. When you come close to losing your sanity, you never want to go through that again.

And yes, Bugalina, you have to keep the protocol up, even in your new place.

Nomo, what do you mean by accidents? Like, what’s a scenario (even a grim one) that would make people stand up and take notice?

10 hopelessnomo August 10, 2007 at 10:49 am

S, I’m not sure what would make people stand up and notice. Sometimes I think nothing short of experiencing an infestation first-hand will do it. I think I was just referring to the accidental nature of useful discoveries. That famous pesticide was an accidental gift from the war, mass produced in order to keep troops alive. (It must have been something for people to finally rid themselves of bed bugs in ordinary life after the war.) It may not be bed bug R&D that will save us. But I think someone might chance upon something interesting and useful while looking for something else, perhaps while looking for a solution to one of those medically important pests, or simply while doing something else. I can’t wait for some NASA scientist or maybe that Dyson guy to get bed bugs. (Mean, yes.)

Hymenoptera, that is hilarious! (I am so happy pest control professionals are not eager to be humiliated on television. Makes me feel better, uh-huh.)

11 Winston O. Buggy August 10, 2007 at 11:15 am

Once again I am in total agreement with Hymenoptera.

I don’t know about accidents but rather thinking out of the traditional box.
Temporary emergency provisions on some recently baned materials
might buy some time. Also there is no one size fits all solution.

When I was at the bb seminar in NYC I think one of the speakers
inadvertently hit the bug on the head. She (the lawyer) said that
folks have to realize that at the end of the day it’s just a bug bite,
but perhaps that is the crux of the matter, it’s that it comes at the end of the day when you are ready to withdraw from what the day has thrown at you
here is this little (in the words of Jess) &*^%@! who invades your most
private of spaces and will not let you sleep tight. Thats what blows
this critter out of proportion at times.
If you believe in the butterfly effect what happen when you
role over on a bed bug?

12 hopelessnomo August 10, 2007 at 11:25 am

I disagree, Winston. Although I love it when you quote Jess.

It’s not just a bug bite. Most bedbug infestations are about “what it means to have a bedbug infestation.” If it were just another bug bite, there would not be a literature of despair, and the shame evident in oral histories. Those oral historians? They have to ask the bedbug question carefully, gently. They often repeat it. For people who can’t get rid of them or escape them, it’s not just a bug bite. It signifies so much more.

13 nobugsonme August 10, 2007 at 11:57 am

I think things will change when Billy Joel sings, “I’m in a Bed Bug State of Mind,” to adoring throngs at (insert Vegas nightclub name here), and the crowd nods in assent, before donning Tyvek suits for their night in the lush hotel suites. “Honey, don’t wear the Tyvek in the Jacuzzi.”

14 Bugalina August 10, 2007 at 2:06 pm

Winston I too totally disagree…It is NOT just a bug bite…It is a bug invasion..>At the end of the day those who don’t know what it is to have their homes invaded and infested by bed bugs need more awareness. The Lawyer who said that was someone who hasn’t had bed bugs invade her home…her bed…her space. Sorry but I find this very insulting…and very Wrong and well a very ignorant statement…..I have lived my life getting a bug bite…but I never went to sleep knowing that bugs were going to be crawling all over me, sucking out my blood, and retreating into my bed and furniture to await another meal…This is NOT JUST A BUG BITE… for heavens sake when is this kind of ignorance going to end…!!~

15 James Buggles August 10, 2007 at 3:29 pm

S, great idea, but figure on at least $5,000 because you need to earn a profit so it’s always a good idea to start with (at least) 50% profit margins before you further subtract overhead.

I’d pay it, but I have the feeling that most bedbug victims — or at least the ones who cannot seem to get rid of them — are at the lower end of the economic scale.

It seems that many of the people who post online are young, just out of college. Someday, because of their education, they will be well-to-do, but right now they are poor and paying off student debt. So four of them will share a one bedroom, build lofts, etc. And then come the bed bugs. With that many people in an apartment designed for one person plus other similar apartments in the building it becomes hopeless. But maybe Mom and Dad can pay for the moving service. 😉

16 James Buggles August 10, 2007 at 3:33 pm

Yes, it’s not just bug bites. It’s … bugs living in furniture. Bugs living in furniture! To me, that’s worse than the bites because it eliminates any sense of comfort in your own home. It’s also proof that there is no God and no intelligent design. The universe is chaotic and random. That said, have a nice weekend everyone.

17 Winston O. Buggy August 10, 2007 at 7:02 pm

It was a comment based on the speakers comment who made it in her persona
of an attorney. I was trying to illistrate, flesh out so to speak, how to those who
have experienced an infestation it comes more as an invasion. But I guess that old
M. McLuhan comment comes into play. “What you said is what I thought
you said” Scratch comment I know their effect transcends the bite.

Does this Tyvek make me look fat? sheesh!!!

18 Bugalina August 10, 2007 at 8:17 pm

Winston..Glad to hear it…Its just that I think people who have lived with bed bugs are sensitive to those words or similar to ..”just a nuisance”…….I have had raccoons in my attics, rats on my property, cockroaches when I was young and living in a City apt., I have been bitten by fleas, taken an Amtrak sleeper that had mice in it , had field mice all the time in my childhood home, seen lots of silverfish and centipedes in my lifetime, used to love to pick up grasshoppers when I was young…etc…trying to make the point that I am not and never was skittish about nature…BUT when bed bugs started crawling on me..sucking my blood..and infesting my home, ..a fear and horror set in like never before…So I am, and I think many others are, sensitive to the issue that maybe we are “overreacting”….NO NO NO…we are not..Thank you for your understanding..DEb

19 hopelessnomo August 10, 2007 at 8:18 pm

Got it. And ) &*^%@! who invades your most private of spaces is definitely right!

What happens when you squish a bedbug in bed? A pretty rainbow? You find $20 in your coat pocket the next morning? Only good things, I’m sure.

20 nobugsonme August 10, 2007 at 10:24 pm

Okay: I think we’re all in the same camp. Now let’s work on the other 99.999999999999% of the country! 🙂

21 Winston O. Buggy August 10, 2007 at 10:58 pm

I think the number is lower I’ve got to admit it’s getting better …..

22 nobugsonme August 11, 2007 at 2:44 am

Fixing a hole where the bird bugs came in, Winston? 😉

23 Thunnus August 22, 2007 at 10:11 am

I am a professional biologist, working with invertebrate zoology. I am relatively aware of the biology of vermin. These horrid little hordes of inverts are a veritable plague who have forever altered my life. My promising relationship with an absolutely stunningly beautiful lady is now ended, due to the participation of a horde of Cimex lectularius feasting on her warm and glowing body after a period of strenuous physical activity. She is horribly allergic to their anticoagulants and approached anaphylactic shock during the post bite period last week. When and if she ever speaks to me again I will attempt to explain that I am apparently among the portion of the human population who do not detect activity by Cimex. My immediate post bite physical examination of bedding and other furniture shocked me to an extreme end. Dismay and disbelief went into a frantic battle with each other for complete control of my emotional status. Infestation now has a name and a face within the corridors of my mind. Multiple tracks and lairs of corpulent, glistening, lurking Cimex lectularius awaiting home delivery of their next catered meal is now the face of infestation within this mind.

Call it emotional imbalance, overreaction, or anything your needs require. I went nuclear. There would be no survivors of the holocaust I now planned and plotted to deliver unto this scourge of vermin who had been victualizing upon me and mine. No rule of land, sea, or air warfare is sacred and beyond violation in this battlefield. Chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons are all open options within the scope of my ethos for this fight. Chemical options here now mean every pyrethrin I am capable of mustering, delivered in high concentration and dosage with high frequency. Diatomaceous earth, the glimmering crystalline remains of other invertebrates of the shallow seas of an earth long past are deployed as the sabre wielding agents of a lingering cavalry now always patrolling the former lairs of tje villainous Cimex. Fractured bits of the diatoms will be inhaled through the spiracles of the Cimex, sucked further in and begin acting with surgical keeness to slice and dice the respiratory tracks of the vermin from the inside. Trachae and bronchae of the pestilential predators part like butter sliced by a glowing hot knife blade and the affected vermin bleed out internally as their long dead evolutionary brethren perform my bidding with a noble silent precision and enduring accuracy. Praise to the dedication and effectiveness of the diatom cavalry; long may their banner fly and mock the vermin.

Within self the glory of victory remains hollow at best for now. No matter I never felt a bite before. No matter the vermin never bothered me then. Every puff of air on exposed skin, any and all unknown contacts of epidermis with the unknown in the watches of the night, any movement at all of the forest of hair clad over my body and a reincarnation of the verminous Cimex occurs…again…and again…and again…Where and how does the peace and contentment of my now long distant past of cozy nights and uninterrupted sleep return to ease the torments of my mind???

24 Bugalina August 22, 2007 at 10:45 am

yikes…this is some post…I translate to say that…your apt is seriously infested, you didn’t react to the bites….your girlfriend ( after a romp) got really bitten up … and grossed out when you discovered bed bugs Partout !!!! …by the way, bed bugs are highly attracted to heat and sweat….I hope you are using a PCO…go onto the Forums let us know, in laymans terms, what you are doing….and please give us more info about the anaphylatic shock. We here can help each other out with our bed bug infestations, as for your love life, well speaking from a womans heart…..I would never enter that bedroom again !!! Unless and until it was all clear !! Please read all FAQ’s …

25 hopelessnomo August 22, 2007 at 10:57 am

Bugalina, LOL!

Uh-huh, not a problem that flowers can fix!

26 nobugsonme August 22, 2007 at 11:39 am

Thunnus,
I am sorry for your experience, and thank you for your poetic comments. I also suggest you visit the forums.
The action of DE upon bed bugs is mechanical, but I believe it is upon their exoskeletons and not upon their lungs. I leave that for others to explain and clarify.
I am horrified, however, by what you describe. It is amazing that you could have so many, which surely would have come out before to bite you, and not seen them. I don’t know about them being attracted to sweat, but heat and certain patterns of C02 emissions do bring them forth.

27 Thunnus August 23, 2007 at 5:16 am

Thanks to all of you for your supportive comments. It is reassuring to know I am not completely alone with this predicament. It does help and your posts did have an immediate positive affect on my manic mood; please accept my most sincere and enthusiastic thanks for your acts of sharing and caring.

On the diatomaceous earth and its affect on Cimex…my personal microscopic examinations of Cimex post-mortem show evidence of inhalation and mechanical slicing up trachae and bronchae. I did a microscopic scale dissection of several carcasses at 50X magnification using a large research grade dissecting scope in a lab setting yesterday morning. It appears to me that the crystals of naturally occurring DE are small enough to be inhaled through the spiracles of Cimex. This is analogous to inhalation through the nostrils for a mammal. Once ingested it appears the DE acts mechanically on the respiratory membranes of Cimex in a manner that optically resembles slicing of mammal tissue by razor blade. The result is a certain mortality for the afflicted Cimex although mortality is not instantaneous upon contact with DE by Cimex.

Activity of natural source pyrethrins at a concentration of 2.00% in aqueous solution appears to me to be significant and lethal to Cimex in observations of a single application on a live population of at least 50 members. Direct contact with an aerosolized dispersion of this pyrethrin solution resulted in 100% mortality and mortality appeared to be instantaneous. Persistence of this chemical agent as a long acting deterrent is unknown at present and will be reported as time passes and more observations of the treatment area occur.

I am now dedicated to sharing my professional observations with this group and hope this information may be useful to someone else dealing with this underreported and persistent problem. I am indeed shocked to discover how widespread this problem now appears to be within my local area.

Personally my apartment management group possessed a professionally prepared document set dealing with infestation and remedies. I am shocked and baffled to discover that their response to my reporting of this problem is a great focus on denial of any responsibility for persistent infestation of their properties. I was given the suggestion that I infested my own domicile with vermin through accidental contact with Cimex in some unknown public venue that resulted in me personally transporting them into my own home.

Their focus on denial appears to be a response driven by fear of legal liability. I can state the management company has never advised me such vermin might be present in this property. Confidential comments made to me by their extermination contractors lead me to conclude this problem is at least mildly common within their local rental properties. I find the fact that this management company possesses and distributes literature dealing with Cimex infestation to residents compelling evidence that this company has knowledge of this problem they failed to disclose to me during lease negotiations. This truly angers me at multiple levels and gives me what I now view as good reason to consider this leasing agency to indeed be liable at some levels for the infestation problem now afflicting me. I was initially simply interested in a solution for my infestation problems. I am now angered enough by the actions and apparent dishonesty of this leasing agency to seriously contemplate direct legal action against them for their culpable liability in concealing and deceiving me about Cimex infestation in their rental properties. Simply stated…it appears to me they knew about this problem, failed to disclose the information to me, and have since consistently acted in a manner intended to deny any knowledge or responsibility for the infestation problem I am presently enduring. This is an outrage to me and I am presently seeking a new address as a result.

I have read and do appreciate the FAQ section of this website. I cannot predict how long I will be an active participant here but I wish to thank the responsible parties for their noble efforts in providing this venue as a valuable public service. Please accept my most sincere and appreciative thanks for your excellent work. I’ll be posting regularly at least until I resolve this problem to my personal satisfaction. I am also volunteering my services to this group as a biologist. If there are any relevant areas where I can contribute to your efforts by providing professional references or other relevant biological information please ask and I will do my best to obtain and share whatever is available from within the domain of scientific publications.

Cheers and best wishes!

28 Bugalina August 23, 2007 at 7:07 am

Thunnus…Thank you..I do appreciate your explanation as to how exactly the bugs meet their death via the different chemicals. I have always wondered, since they do not ingest, how do the chemcial pesticides kill them. So they actually “breathe”..and inhale the pesticide, and/or does it permeate their “pores”..if they have any…I know the DE is mechanical, but I didn’t know they inhaled it. There are many leasing companies who do not disclose that a bldg. is infested, and I am glad to hear that you are going to hold the one you used, responsible for their unethical practices. Sorry about your plight, one of our members suggests that you send the lady who got bitten a nice arrangement of flowers, although it may not mend things up, it would be a very nice gesture. I really appreciate your educated observations regarding the bugs.

29 nobugsonme August 23, 2007 at 12:26 pm

Where are you Tunnus? Most localities do require rental units be kept pest free by the owner. There are excptions, but a lot of landlords just hope you won’t know the law.

30 jJJohn November 16, 2007 at 5:05 pm

Madness comes to me now. I am a destroyer. I have a degree in chemical technology. I have firearms, scuba gear, respirators, gas masks, nuke suits…I was ready for nuclear war. Just tell me what to shoot. Where to get fumigant over the Internet and how to gas a rental truck. I was a child, a 30-year-old play actor calling for something to come out and play. Here it is…and it’s not even radioactive drinking water. Others be damned; other priorities rescinded. I have been getting two hours of sleep on a consistent basis. The transient hotel has firetrucks going by all night. I watched “Aliens” and thought “cool.” It’s not. Plus, I’ve got a storage locker full of stuff…and it ain’t furniture. I’ve been sleeping on milk crates and plywood for 40 years. I lost my apartment, picked this crud up living on a farm…moved back to the city. Now, everything’s more complicated than Three Mile Island. This is an effin’ space plague. I need a think tank, kind that’s sits inside Cheyenne Mountain when the sun’s going nova in the next eight hours…. Look, I gotta get out of this rant and decompress. Got an AA meeting to go to. Thanks for listening…easy does it.

31 nobugsonme November 16, 2007 at 6:03 pm

jjjohn,

I had some trouble following this message. But a lack of sleep will do that for ya.

You must not try and get “fumigant” over the internet, or to gas a truck yourself. Vikane gas, to which I assume you’re referring, can only be used by people trained and licensed to do so. It’s deadly. Even though you have a chemical background, you probably aren’t licensed for this.

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