FAQ: Leaving stuff out to freeze, walk-in freezers, etc: how cold and how long?
By nobugsonme on Aug 4, 2007 in bed bugs, bedbugs, cold, freezing, ice, stuff, treatment
So you want to de-infest a bunch of stuff, and you want to try doing it with cold?
Dr. Michael Potter covers that, in the article from January’s PCTOnline:
In colder climates, freezing might be a way to de-infest furniture and other belongings. Bed bugs and their eggs can be killed by very low temperatures, but it is difficult to achieve them without using a deep freezer. Temperatures below 0°F for one to two weeks are generally believed to be needed to reliably kill all life stages. Fluctuating winter temperatures which often extend above this level are probably less effective and are currently being studied by Dr. Steven Kells at the University of Minnesota. Overall and throughout much of the country, heating tends to be a faster, more reliable option than chilling.
Your own home freezer is not going to be cold enough, and even if it was, it would have to remain closed for the duration.
Relying on Mother Nature has failed for some. We’ve had some reports that “leaving things out in the snow for a month” did not work, and this is probably why. Add the fact that what you packed may insulate the bed bugs to a degree (just as a comforter can insulate them in a dryer) and you may be very disappointed.
If you have access to a below O Fahrenheit freezer (check the temperatures), book it for two weeks. It will probably work as per Dr. Potter’s words. Be sure and let us know.
Warning: I would not freeze electronic items. You can ruin the item, and you might even electrocute yourself later.
If you can offer below zero degree F freezing space, feel free to leave a link to your site in the comments below.
Updated 10/2007:
(The following was a forum response by nobugsonme, in this thread, to a poster whose PCO suggested sticking things in the freezer for a day to kill bed bugs.)
How cold does your freezer get? Do you intend to open it during the time you are freezing this stuff? How thick is the stuff?
No one can tell you what will work for sure with your freezer. How long freezing bed bugs takes depends on these kinds of factors.
Here’s something else to consider: entomologist Lou Sorkin froze bed bugs. He has a seriously cold freezer. This is what he said:
“I had them in a freezer at -29dF for 4 hours and some 1st instars lived. But [in] 5 days they also died.”
(Taken from the Yahoo Bedbugger Group, click here and join to read message 3739).
Your home freezer is bound to be much warmer than Lou’s professional one.
Also, Lou said in another message that I can’t locate right now, that when he removed some bed bugs from the freezer after shorter period (which I think was within a day, maybe shorter), they appeared dead, and then defrosted and were still alive.
Lou’s data suggests 5 days works if your freezer reaches -29 degrees F. But we have suggested freezing for weeks to be safer, if it does not get that cold.
And freezing does not mean placing it in a freezer you use all the time. If the door is opening and shutting, the temperature will rise each time the door is opened.
Some people have bought $200 box freezers to freeze important stuff. Pricey, but so is tossing shoes and important things out. Putting the stuff in and leaving it undisturbed for two weeks seems promising, but if the freezer does not stay below 0 degrees F, be warned: we really do not know how long it will take to kill bed bugs at other temperatures.
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willow-the-wisp | Aug 4, 2007 | Reply
this is cool pun intended. I especially like the part about the comfortor insulating the bug … it can crawl up into items in the center and not get AS cold as the snow.
Also–the sun shines on th bag so it would have to be a white bag–not clear and not dark esp. black. 2 weeks in a sub zero freezer does seem long but I don’t think it is long enough. I’d go for three weeks–just to be sure.
nobugsonme | Aug 5, 2007 | Reply
Hi Willow!
There is currently no definite data. Potter was really clear about speculating. I look forward to Steven Kells’s research on freezing bed bugs.
willow-the-wisp | Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
I left a very long answer in the forums here:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/721?replies=1#post-8018
Anonymous | Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
I commented there, but I just wanted to say again how impressed I was by your detail! And thanks!
willow-the-wisp | Aug 13, 2007 | Reply
your so very welcome–keep in mind … “fresh step” I beleive it is called, is a type of kitty litter that is extra absorbant–You could also put it into an open container in your freezer to help dehumidify the air in there some–I hope anyway. Most of this I am jut now figuring out, as we are communicating. it is or could be considered conjecture–but I say if it might work, and it won’t seem to cause more harm–Then Try it … You’ll like it.
Mr. Willow
nobugsonme | Oct 31, 2007 | Reply
Freezing stuff FAQ updated today.
nyjammin | Oct 31, 2007 | Reply
$200 box freezer. How do we find out how cold it gets? Does it get to the -29 degrees and if not, how cold is “cold enough” to kill bbs?
nobugsonme | Oct 31, 2007 | Reply
Jammin, that would vary based on the freezer, but I suspect the manufacturer would have information for you on the temperature and you could verify it with your own thermometer.
I doubt a cheap freezer would go to -29F. Dr. Potter suggests 0F for two weeks would probably work. Temperatures should not fluctuate–meaning, you can’t open the freezer door. You can click the link in the post above to see the rest of his information.
I personally would try this, but it would be a long project of freezing bagged items in batches for two weeks each at 0F or below. If the freezer did not get that low, I’d consider returning it. But even at 0 for 2 weeks, this is not definitive data.
I would not shell out $200 unless I was pretty sure I would like to have the freezer anyway, since it might not work.
It would be good to have further research done in this area, using less sophisticated freezers than the one Lou has in his office. I will ask if he can help with that.
nyjammin | Oct 31, 2007 | Reply
Thanks, Nobugs! But, you said freezing bagged items. Why would the items hafta be bagged? To prevent frostbite and thereby damaging items? I would think that the bag would act as an insulator. If the freezer is at a temperature of 0, the stuff in the bag may be warmer. Also, if the freezer is frost-free or not depends on the temperature. If a freezer has a lotta ice in it, does the temperature go down or up based on the ice? These are all variables in considering temperature factors, I think.
nobugsonme | Oct 31, 2007 | Reply
I would bag it to protect items (though some might still be damaged–I would not freeze electronics), and also because I am imagining the bed bug’s first urge when placed in the freezer would be to try and get out. (I don’t think it would get out, but I doubt you want bed bugs lodged in various cracks in the freezer’s structure).
I think the items the bed bug is possibly IN, like leather jackets, shoes, handbags, or books, will act as an insulator. This is why you need to leave it undisturbed for a long time.
My limited understanding of freezers is that they work better (and I think produce less frost) when full. But I think if the manufactuer tells you the freezer hits a certain temperature if used in a certain way, and you use it in that way, then it should be that temperature.
Pooey_1980 | Nov 6, 2007 | Reply
Hello I am a newbie,
Been reading through the site and have got helpgul information. So I successfully got the bed bugs out of my bed room by doing some seep intense cleaning and doing the bed covering thing. But I have one more problem.
How in the world do I get them out of my new recliner? and my sofa? My recliner is brand new. My sofa if I cannot get them out I am willing to throw away had for 4 years nows, but teh recliner I don’t want to part with. Would you igf you paid $600.00 I cannot leave the furniture out in the sun to kill them or freeze the furniture. Has anyone had any success stories regarding cloth fruniture? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I NEED HELP!
I read through the blogs to try to find answers but couldn’t find the answer I exactly needed.
Thanks fo everyones help,
Pooey
nobugsonme | Nov 6, 2007 | Reply
Unfortunately, pooey, you need professional help. It is possible in most cases to treat furniture, but very difficult. What’s more, you should not assume you got all of the bed bugs out of your bedroom by cleaning (even intensely). If I were you, I would get a professional in to treat ASAP. If you are a tenant, the landlord may be responsible for paying (we have a FAQ on that). If you have more questions, come to the forums (blue button at top right).
mangycur | Mar 5, 2008 | Reply
Update on freezing:
I spoke to Joel at Assured Environments today. (They are an NYC PCO.) He said he and his colleagues caughts some bed bugs, put them in a container of water, froze the containers to solid ice, thawed the ice back to water, fished out the bed bugs–and they got up and started walking around. I don’t see how this is possible but he swears it’s true.
nobugsonme | Mar 6, 2008 | Reply
Arrgghhh! Argggghhhh! Arrrgghhhhhh!
The horror.
Kevin M. Kirby | Jun 23, 2008 | Reply
Should VHS tapes be considered potential bedbug hiding places after the infestation is discovered?
If so, I will haul my collection of almost a thousand tapes to the dump. I cannot risk even a single nymph surviving to bite a friend with allergies.
A great deal of time, effort and moolah [editor's note: potentially offensive comment deleted] spent in this quest — are now to be considered for naught, according to the Department of Public Health.
Will they also try to claim that the bedbugs are all (still, nightly) in my imagination, or somehow my own doing?
nobugsonme | Jun 23, 2008 | Reply
Kevin,
It is possible for bed bugs to get into VHS tapes (they’ve been found in coffee pots, for goodness’ sake). But whether they did or not would probably depend on the size of your infestation, where the bed bugs were, and other factors.
I’m sorry I do not know what else to recommend re: the health dept. except that if you find additional evidence, rather than scooping it up or cleaning it away, leave it out for the inspectors and call them in at once. I know that’s awful advice, since no one wants to let bed bugs roam, but I don’t see how you can beat this if the landlord is not pressured to take real action.
I would strongly encourage you to leave further posts in the forums rather than the comments, unless they are related to the subject of the post or FAQ. You will find you get more responses in the forums:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/
(Or click blue button at top right.)
greenjeans | Aug 3, 2008 | Reply
My husband found a bed bug crawling next to our 1 year old son last night and I have not slept since! I have not been bitten yet though I think, in hind sight, that our son has once and possibly my husband.
So I guess we now have bedbugs and I am terrified of the whole process. I got rid of our bed today because it was a platform deal and too tough to move and check. I have started washing and bagging everything in our room but will wait to do everything in our house till a professional can take a look. I have not found any other evidence of bed bugs except for that one. Am I just not looking hard enough?
My real questions are:
A. has anyone used the freezer method here in NYC/Brooklyn for non clothing items and if so do you recommend it and have a contact to share?
B. I have lots of plants in the bedroom and rest of the apt. Do I need to get rid of them?
C. Does anyone have any advice regarding kids and bed bugs? Such as what to do with toys and how can I protect him from the chemicals short of sending him away with a few zip lock bags to a relative for a month.
Thanks,
super nervous green thumber
nobugsonme | Aug 3, 2008 | Reply
Hi greenjeans,
The cold storage facility idea is a good one IF you can ensure a long period of continuously cold-enough temps (per the FAQ), but I don’t have any leads.
The most popular method to decontaminate non-clothing items in NYC seems to be sending items in a truck to be fumigated with vikane gas. (This can be done with everything from books to sofas); plants may need to be left out, as would food and personal care items, and some other exceptions.
We have a FAQ on vikane and people in the forums are probably willing to share experiences.
HOWEVER, it’s really important that a PCO ensures your home is bed bug-free before that stuff is brought back in. This can be tricky. If neighbors may have bed bugs, you are setting yourself up to repeat a costly, annoying cycle.
Please don’t discard anything else if you find bed bugs. I know you want them out, now, but many PCOs will not treat without seeing bed bugs themselves. And if you’re renting under most circumstances in NYC, your landlord is liable for treatment and will require the same proof (was would 311 if the landlord does not comply).
Also, some PCOs will use steam to treat a home, esp. if there’s a child under 1 at home. In any case, an experienced pro should be able to treat you safely with a child in the home.
If you want to follow up on anything not freezer-related, or ask about plants, come to the forums: http://bedbugger.com/forum
btook1239 | Aug 30, 2008 | Reply
Any more info on VHS tapes? Should I throw my hundreds in the dumpster?? What about DVD’s?
nobugsonme | Aug 31, 2008 | Reply
btook1239,
There are different approaches to de-bugging stuff like this. Have you actually inspected the tapes and found bed bugs harboring in them? Has your PCO made any suggestions?
DVDs are actually easier than tapes: they can be gently washed in soap and water (Netflix even tells customers to do this when a DVD skips). The cases are more of a problem. Discarding them, and washing the DVDs and placing them in a new CD holder or new cases might be an option (and I’d bag those, if I knew them to be 100% bed bug-free, until treatment was completely done).
I suggest posting your query in our forums, where more people will see it:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/
camalo48 | Jan 4, 2009 | Reply
Had a case of bedbugs, luckiliy discovered early. Think they came in on NEW furniture that may have come into contact with already infested furniture on delivery van…not sure. First night, I had at least 8 totally itchy bites.
Worked fast and hard to get rid of them, had to throw lots out, inc three beds. Used chemicals, DE, lots of laundering,caulked until sore, etc etc. I see no evidence of them. No skins, droppings and we do check regularly.
Now to the question: I still am sleeping on couch, do not have the nerve to return to my bed yet, even though its brand new! I have suffered a bite here and there but not sure they’re bedbugs because they do not itch at all! Suggestions and/or comments please. Is it possible they could still be here after everything we’ve done and all that is new? Thanks much!
pleasegoaway | Jan 5, 2009 | Reply
I have been battling these little demons for over a year I have been sprayed many times I live in Winnipeg, MB my brother told me to store my furniture & clothes outside I put things in storage bins on my balcony which is very large the temp here is -26 with the windchill it can reach -45 I am praying this works I have everything in bags constantly do laundry etc etc if this doesn’t work I am giving up all my stuff which isn’t much since I threw so much of my stuff out already. sleeping on mattresses sealed with plastic have not found any on my beds just in my living room area. I am going to try leave all my stuff on balcony for the winter not just 2 or 3 weeks see what happens
nobugsonme | Jan 6, 2009 | Reply
My understanding is that it is not just how cold it gets, but how long it stays that cold. Fluctuating temperatures in the course of a day (from the warmer parts of the day to the coldest) might mean this does not work well. Still, I suppose it can’t hurt, as long as you understand items may not be bed bug free.