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	<title>Comments on: FAQ: Leaving stuff out to freeze, walk-in freezers, etc: how cold and how long?</title>
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	<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/</link>
	<description>bed bug news, information, activism, and support</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:14:38 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: CryoMan</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-18186</link>
		<dc:creator>CryoMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 00:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-18186</guid>
		<description>There may be a cure for some who have valuables that they are not willing to part with, but are willing to pay the cost of a cryogenic treatment.

We have chambers capable of reaching anywhere from ambient to -330F (-196C) that will most certainly kill most bugs. The treatment also uses liquid nitrogen so is guaranteed to permeate anywhere any bugs could hide. However, even at this temperature there are bugs that will thaw and come back to life. We have tried experiments on  cockroaches where after being suspended in a -196C temperature for 24 hours the bug thawed and came back to life...they really are the most resilient creatures out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There may be a cure for some who have valuables that they are not willing to part with, but are willing to pay the cost of a cryogenic treatment.</p>
<p>We have chambers capable of reaching anywhere from ambient to -330F (-196C) that will most certainly kill most bugs. The treatment also uses liquid nitrogen so is guaranteed to permeate anywhere any bugs could hide. However, even at this temperature there are bugs that will thaw and come back to life. We have tried experiments on  cockroaches where after being suspended in a -196C temperature for 24 hours the bug thawed and came back to life&#8230;they really are the most resilient creatures out there.</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-17631</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-17631</guid>
		<description>Artist,

In the post above, I quote entomologist Lou Sorkin, of the American Museum of Natural History.  He does bed bug research.  He placed bed bugs in his freezer at -29dF.  In 4 hours, they were not dead.  In 5 days they were.  

He has told us bed bugs may appear dead after freezing but later thaw and remain alive.  

I would guess Lou has a colder freezer than yours. 

I am glad you&#039;ve solved your problem but I hope you&#039;re not implying we&#039;re spreading urban legends about &quot;zombie bed bugs&quot;.  

The time needed to kill bed bugs in a freezer will depend on the thickness of the item and the temperature of the freezer.  And people need to be aware that bed bugs may appear dead before they are.   It is a scientific fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artist,</p>
<p>In the post above, I quote entomologist Lou Sorkin, of the American Museum of Natural History.  He does bed bug research.  He placed bed bugs in his freezer at -29dF.  In 4 hours, they were not dead.  In 5 days they were.  </p>
<p>He has told us bed bugs may appear dead after freezing but later thaw and remain alive.  </p>
<p>I would guess Lou has a colder freezer than yours. </p>
<p>I am glad you&#8217;ve solved your problem but I hope you&#8217;re not implying we&#8217;re spreading urban legends about &#8220;zombie bed bugs&#8221;.  </p>
<p>The time needed to kill bed bugs in a freezer will depend on the thickness of the item and the temperature of the freezer.  And people need to be aware that bed bugs may appear dead before they are.   It is a scientific fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Artist in Brooklyn</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-17624</link>
		<dc:creator>Artist in Brooklyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-17624</guid>
		<description>My wife and I have been battling bb&#039;s for the last month. Got the guy in to search and spray. Sent everything out yo dry cleaning. Washed everything. Ripped out all my wall moulding and replaced and caulked.  They were gone for about a week an ahalf. 
Then they returned. My wife and I work at home do we&#039;ve devised a system of three hours sleep three hrs watching. And I mean watching. They seem to just appear on the bed and attack. The other night we caught two ( after they dined) and instead of just ripping their legs off and burning them we put them in baggies and put them in the freezer.
The urban legends about bedbugs help the problem. They were dead as a doornail 8 hrs later. No zombie bedbugs arose from the dead to bite again. If you work   A nine to five , take your vacation and deal. Information is power. But be careful about what you read and beleive.
It&#039;s more than possible to win. Stay focused and out of denial
artist in Brooklyn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife and I have been battling bb&#8217;s for the last month. Got the guy in to search and spray. Sent everything out yo dry cleaning. Washed everything. Ripped out all my wall moulding and replaced and caulked.  They were gone for about a week an ahalf.<br />
Then they returned. My wife and I work at home do we&#8217;ve devised a system of three hours sleep three hrs watching. And I mean watching. They seem to just appear on the bed and attack. The other night we caught two ( after they dined) and instead of just ripping their legs off and burning them we put them in baggies and put them in the freezer.<br />
The urban legends about bedbugs help the problem. They were dead as a doornail 8 hrs later. No zombie bedbugs arose from the dead to bite again. If you work   A nine to five , take your vacation and deal. Information is power. But be careful about what you read and beleive.<br />
It&#8217;s more than possible to win. Stay focused and out of denial<br />
artist in Brooklyn.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheap JAP &#187; Blog Archive &#187; War Report: More Tips on De-Bugification</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-16868</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheap JAP &#187; Blog Archive &#187; War Report: More Tips on De-Bugification</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-16868</guid>
		<description>[...] for ensuring blood sucker death is below zero degrees Fahrenheit for one to two weeks, i.e. the average household freezer just won&#8217;t cut it. For imminent annihilation, stick with heat. Where hassle-free, quick-kill techniques are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for ensuring blood sucker death is below zero degrees Fahrenheit for one to two weeks, i.e. the average household freezer just won&#8217;t cut it. For imminent annihilation, stick with heat. Where hassle-free, quick-kill techniques are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-16790</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 03:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-16790</guid>
		<description>Jack,

Please reread the previous post by &quot;Bedlam,&quot; which I was responding to, and my own.  DE is not a repellent, but Neem (which the OP was also talking about) is one.  My point was that Neem is probably not a good idea where bed bugs are concerned, since the point is to kill them, not drive them in deeper.

This comment was about Neem plus DE.  DE, used properlyand safely, can work.  Please read the DE FAQ for suggestions.

Http://Bedbugger.com/faqde</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack,</p>
<p>Please reread the previous post by &#8220;Bedlam,&#8221; which I was responding to, and my own.  DE is not a repellent, but Neem (which the OP was also talking about) is one.  My point was that Neem is probably not a good idea where bed bugs are concerned, since the point is to kill them, not drive them in deeper.</p>
<p>This comment was about Neem plus DE.  DE, used properlyand safely, can work.  Please read the DE FAQ for suggestions.</p>
<p>Http://Bedbugger.com/faqde</p>
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		<title>By: jack</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-16789</link>
		<dc:creator>jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 03:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-16789</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t follow what you mean by &quot;If they do not walk through the DE, they will die. IF this repellent works, you may drive them somewhere else in your home.&quot; 

Isn&#039;t the point of DE, if applied sparingly, that it&#039;s not a repellent? I.e. if you, a human, allow yourself to be bait in the bed, and have only bedposts as access to you, you can sprinkle it (very) lightly around the bedposts and then they&#039;d have to walk through it to get to you? 

[I brought in one piece of infested furniture, had it for 10 days, threw it out again. I hope they were in there and that I&#039;ve vacuumed the rest up, but want to try some DE for safety as I suppose those that bit me were laying eggs in the meantime.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t follow what you mean by &#8220;If they do not walk through the DE, they will die. IF this repellent works, you may drive them somewhere else in your home.&#8221; </p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t the point of DE, if applied sparingly, that it&#8217;s not a repellent? I.e. if you, a human, allow yourself to be bait in the bed, and have only bedposts as access to you, you can sprinkle it (very) lightly around the bedposts and then they&#8217;d have to walk through it to get to you? </p>
<p>[I brought in one piece of infested furniture, had it for 10 days, threw it out again. I hope they were in there and that I've vacuumed the rest up, but want to try some DE for safety as I suppose those that bit me were laying eggs in the meantime.]</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-15024</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 05:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-15024</guid>
		<description>bedlam,

I strongly suggest you give this more thought and do more research.

I do not know if NEEM works, but I do know it is claimed to be a repellent.  While it might seem that repelling bed bugs is a good idea, we hear it is not so.  You can actually drive them deeper into your home, and they will likely reappear later.  Also, you are using DE.  If they do not walk through the DE, they will NOT die.  IF this repellent works, you may drive them somewhere else in your home.

I also would not personally use DE in bags of clothing as you describe, since it can irritate both skin and lungs, at a later date.

I am not saying DE can&#039;t ever be used safely and effectively, but you really need to know what you&#039;re dealing with.

wpgbugguy had a wise response to your other comment also, &lt;a href=&quot;http://bedbugger.com/2007/02/22/bed-bugs-40-humans-33-185-smith-street-in-winnipeg/#comment-15021&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://bedbugger.com/forum/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Please come to the forums&lt;/a&gt; if you want support or advice from bed bug fighters, professional and amateur.  It really is much easier to have a discussion on the forum than in the comments of older blog posts, and you will likely have a much larger audience.  

Of course, if your comment is about what&#039;s IN the blog posts, then by all means this is the best place for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bedlam,</p>
<p>I strongly suggest you give this more thought and do more research.</p>
<p>I do not know if NEEM works, but I do know it is claimed to be a repellent.  While it might seem that repelling bed bugs is a good idea, we hear it is not so.  You can actually drive them deeper into your home, and they will likely reappear later.  Also, you are using DE.  If they do not walk through the DE, they will NOT die.  IF this repellent works, you may drive them somewhere else in your home.</p>
<p>I also would not personally use DE in bags of clothing as you describe, since it can irritate both skin and lungs, at a later date.</p>
<p>I am not saying DE can&#8217;t ever be used safely and effectively, but you really need to know what you&#8217;re dealing with.</p>
<p>wpgbugguy had a wise response to your other comment also, <a href="http://bedbugger.com/2007/02/22/bed-bugs-40-humans-33-185-smith-street-in-winnipeg/#comment-15021" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/" rel="nofollow">Please come to the forums</a> if you want support or advice from bed bug fighters, professional and amateur.  It really is much easier to have a discussion on the forum than in the comments of older blog posts, and you will likely have a much larger audience.  </p>
<p>Of course, if your comment is about what&#8217;s IN the blog posts, then by all means this is the best place for them.</p>
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		<title>By: bedlam</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-15023</link>
		<dc:creator>bedlam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 04:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-15023</guid>
		<description>I also live in Winterpeg.  Own an old character home in Wolsley  Discovered bed bugs in my 19 y.o. daugo hter&#039;s room about a month ago.  Have had two pco treatments so far. Am not seeing any bugs and no one has been bitten for over a week.  Am treating all my wooden floors and furniture with Neem oil which is supposed to repel them.  Am planning to get some DE and put it in all the craacks and crevasses.  Also bagged my daughter&#039;s 10 million pairs of shoes and placed them on our front porch to freeze.  Am planning to sprinkle DE in the bags and close them up again.  The paranoia is driving me crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also live in Winterpeg.  Own an old character home in Wolsley  Discovered bed bugs in my 19 y.o. daugo hter&#8217;s room about a month ago.  Have had two pco treatments so far. Am not seeing any bugs and no one has been bitten for over a week.  Am treating all my wooden floors and furniture with Neem oil which is supposed to repel them.  Am planning to get some DE and put it in all the craacks and crevasses.  Also bagged my daughter&#8217;s 10 million pairs of shoes and placed them on our front porch to freeze.  Am planning to sprinkle DE in the bags and close them up again.  The paranoia is driving me crazy.</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-14889</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 06:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-14889</guid>
		<description>Hi Johnathan,

The problem with relying on natural environmental temperatures is that you can&#039;t really be sure that the items were a certain temperature at their core, for a certain length of time.

If you read the FAQ above, you know that Lou Sorkin killed bed bugs in items in a freezer at -29 F in 5 days.  (-29 F is -33 C; -20 C, on the other hand, is -4 F.)

The cold temps may have done it, but the length of time can be greatly impacted, as I understand, by the amount of stuff, how it was packed, etc.  And you would want consistent, solidly cold temps.

Beyond that, I can&#039;t say with any certainty that this was sufficient.  It may have worked.

I put much LESS stock in your spraying your stuff with residuals.  I would not do that.  Bed bugs have to cross residuals to die.  In a sealed environment, why would they move around?  Also, it may damage your stuff.  And keep in mind that many pesticides are based on pyrethroids which bed bugs often show resistance to.  It&#039;s not the insurance you&#039;d like it to be.

Not sure where you are, but someone in your area may be using thermal heat or a gas (such as sulfuryl fluoride, a.k.a VIKANE TM) if that&#039;s legal and workable there.  Some people have this done to their homes, but it can also often be done to a truck of stuff.  If you want to be absolutely sure, then (done properly) these are supposed to be 100% effective.  (I stress the &quot;done properly&quot; part.  Mistakes happen.)

People have also left things sealed in storage for 18 months.  Sealing is essential: you do not want bed bugs escaping to feed on animals, for example.  (Or, in indoor storage, going off to feed on people.)

Finally, please post your questions on our forums, where you are likely to get more responses:  http://bedbugger.com/forum/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Johnathan,</p>
<p>The problem with relying on natural environmental temperatures is that you can&#8217;t really be sure that the items were a certain temperature at their core, for a certain length of time.</p>
<p>If you read the FAQ above, you know that Lou Sorkin killed bed bugs in items in a freezer at -29 F in 5 days.  (-29 F is -33 C; -20 C, on the other hand, is -4 F.)</p>
<p>The cold temps may have done it, but the length of time can be greatly impacted, as I understand, by the amount of stuff, how it was packed, etc.  And you would want consistent, solidly cold temps.</p>
<p>Beyond that, I can&#8217;t say with any certainty that this was sufficient.  It may have worked.</p>
<p>I put much LESS stock in your spraying your stuff with residuals.  I would not do that.  Bed bugs have to cross residuals to die.  In a sealed environment, why would they move around?  Also, it may damage your stuff.  And keep in mind that many pesticides are based on pyrethroids which bed bugs often show resistance to.  It&#8217;s not the insurance you&#8217;d like it to be.</p>
<p>Not sure where you are, but someone in your area may be using thermal heat or a gas (such as sulfuryl fluoride, a.k.a VIKANE TM) if that&#8217;s legal and workable there.  Some people have this done to their homes, but it can also often be done to a truck of stuff.  If you want to be absolutely sure, then (done properly) these are supposed to be 100% effective.  (I stress the &#8220;done properly&#8221; part.  Mistakes happen.)</p>
<p>People have also left things sealed in storage for 18 months.  Sealing is essential: you do not want bed bugs escaping to feed on animals, for example.  (Or, in indoor storage, going off to feed on people.)</p>
<p>Finally, please post your questions on our forums, where you are likely to get more responses:  <a href="http://bedbugger.com/forum/" rel="nofollow">http://bedbugger.com/forum/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Johnathan</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/comment-page-1/#comment-14885</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 01:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/08/04/faq-leaving-stuff-out-to-freeze-walk-in-freezers-etc-how-cold-and-how-long/#comment-14885</guid>
		<description>I also forgot to mention, when we put all of our stuff in storage we spray&#039;ed everything down with raid, the kind that says it will kill bed bugs and is residual up to two weeks.

We did this twice when we first put them away then again two months later we went in and sprayed everything.  

I also just went in again two weeks ago and sprayed one more time, emptying several cans of raid trying to get it absolutely everywhere.

We have brought my computer tower out so far and I bleached off all of the parts that i could, luckily Im a computer guy so i know what can be cleaned and what can not be cleaned when it comes to this.

But we ofcourse are still paranoid, we had to live with the bed bugs for several months before we moved with many sleepness nights.  My girlfriend even developed a bug phobia because of it and completely breaks down the instant she see&#039;s any small bug or bug bite that closely resembles that of a bed bug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also forgot to mention, when we put all of our stuff in storage we spray&#8217;ed everything down with raid, the kind that says it will kill bed bugs and is residual up to two weeks.</p>
<p>We did this twice when we first put them away then again two months later we went in and sprayed everything.  </p>
<p>I also just went in again two weeks ago and sprayed one more time, emptying several cans of raid trying to get it absolutely everywhere.</p>
<p>We have brought my computer tower out so far and I bleached off all of the parts that i could, luckily Im a computer guy so i know what can be cleaned and what can not be cleaned when it comes to this.</p>
<p>But we ofcourse are still paranoid, we had to live with the bed bugs for several months before we moved with many sleepness nights.  My girlfriend even developed a bug phobia because of it and completely breaks down the instant she see&#8217;s any small bug or bug bite that closely resembles that of a bed bug.</p>
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