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	<title>Comments on: Over at Apartment Therapy, the bed bugs are back, posing troubling questions for renters</title>
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	<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/</link>
	<description>bed bug news, information, activism, and support</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 05:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: hopelessnomo</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-5316</link>
		<dc:creator>hopelessnomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-5316</guid>
		<description>I would LOVE a property in paradise, Costa Rica, how did you know? 

But, I'd have pretty extensive pest exclusion specs for you, if you know what I mean.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would LOVE a property in paradise, Costa Rica, how did you know? </p>
<p>But, I&#8217;d have pretty extensive pest exclusion specs for you, if you know what I mean.  <img src='http://bedbugger.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: willow-the-wisp</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4827</link>
		<dc:creator>willow-the-wisp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4827</guid>
		<description>oh well I may have bb's again, not too sure ... I ordered the indoor mesh bed bug proof and other bugs proof too tent. I just now saw in the forums. I guess there will be no movies and popcorn for me for a while, but 125 and change is not too high aprice forme to pay--once.

Double-thanks Nobugsonme
All my troubles just dissapeared upon your timely return!
Hope it was bed bug free werever it was you were!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh well I may have bb&#8217;s again, not too sure &#8230; I ordered the indoor mesh bed bug proof and other bugs proof too tent. I just now saw in the forums. I guess there will be no movies and popcorn for me for a while, but 125 and change is not too high aprice forme to pay&#8211;once.</p>
<p>Double-thanks Nobugsonme<br />
All my troubles just dissapeared upon your timely return!<br />
Hope it was bed bug free werever it was you were!</p>
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		<title>By: willow-the-wisp</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4823</link>
		<dc:creator>willow-the-wisp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4823</guid>
		<description>You'd think that by now some of the dumber or lazier or cheaper landlords and property owner's would be starting to get that message; I t is actually cheaper in the long run to do it right at the onsetÃ¢â‚¬â€right? 
IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d think they would have figured out that waiting longer before renting and repeating treatments and warning new tenants, would, be so much cheaper and so much less of a hassle and a Ã¢â‚¬Å“drainÃ¢â‚¬Â.

 This "Oh we had no idea the place had bugs" well, frankly it has got to stop soon no?
So, you are back.
Welcome home</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;d think that by now some of the dumber or lazier or cheaper landlords and property owner&#8217;s would be starting to get that message; I t is actually cheaper in the long run to do it right at the onsetÃ¢â‚¬â€right?<br />
IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d think they would have figured out that waiting longer before renting and repeating treatments and warning new tenants, would, be so much cheaper and so much less of a hassle and a Ã¢â‚¬Å“drainÃ¢â‚¬Â.</p>
<p> This &#8220;Oh we had no idea the place had bugs&#8221; well, frankly it has got to stop soon no?<br />
So, you are back.<br />
Welcome home</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4821</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4821</guid>
		<description>Hi WIllow,
Yes--bed bugs in low-income and moderate-income housing is one of my biggest concerns.  We need housing laws about keeping rentals pest-free to be enforced.  They aren't.  And we need public education, because if tenants are bringing bed bugs into a building via their workplace, schools, via secondhand items, or by visiting friends, then the landlord can spray, vikane, or thermal all s/he likes--they will come back.

I also feel we need specific laws about disclosure: too many move into infested units -- often it is clear the landlord knew of the infestation.  In others, the success of treatment was not verified.  This may be a problem with the form of treatment (for example, spraying an unoccupied unit will probably not work--the bugs can hide out until more "bait" appears.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi WIllow,<br />
Yes&#8211;bed bugs in low-income and moderate-income housing is one of my biggest concerns.  We need housing laws about keeping rentals pest-free to be enforced.  They aren&#8217;t.  And we need public education, because if tenants are bringing bed bugs into a building via their workplace, schools, via secondhand items, or by visiting friends, then the landlord can spray, vikane, or thermal all s/he likes&#8211;they will come back.</p>
<p>I also feel we need specific laws about disclosure: too many move into infested units &#8212; often it is clear the landlord knew of the infestation.  In others, the success of treatment was not verified.  This may be a problem with the form of treatment (for example, spraying an unoccupied unit will probably not work&#8211;the bugs can hide out until more &#8220;bait&#8221; appears.)</p>
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		<title>By: willow-the-wisp</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4816</link>
		<dc:creator>willow-the-wisp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 05:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4816</guid>
		<description>QUITE COOL. LOVED THE AT link. I loved the little bird house in orange they are highlighting. Too bad, it looked like it was made of wood. Had it been metal, I'd "mite" like to  get it and bring it into my new bed bug free place--hopefully--as per my comments above in that grueling procedure--if it worked--and I stayed in stead of brought them to suit in a court of LAW...
See in my little scenario, the bugs might have won.
Unforutantely, if I tried to get them to spray again before I moved in--I'd likely loose the option to move in, the poor are really getting pushed and shoved around here in SF--they and I are getting ill and sick over it.
thanks again.
W...............</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>QUITE COOL. LOVED THE AT link. I loved the little bird house in orange they are highlighting. Too bad, it looked like it was made of wood. Had it been metal, I&#8217;d &#8220;mite&#8221; like to  get it and bring it into my new bed bug free place&#8211;hopefully&#8211;as per my comments above in that grueling procedure&#8211;if it worked&#8211;and I stayed in stead of brought them to suit in a court of LAW&#8230;<br />
See in my little scenario, the bugs might have won.<br />
Unforutantely, if I tried to get them to spray again before I moved in&#8211;I&#8217;d likely loose the option to move in, the poor are really getting pushed and shoved around here in SF&#8211;they and I are getting ill and sick over it.<br />
thanks again.<br />
W&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: willow-the-wisp</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4814</link>
		<dc:creator>willow-the-wisp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 04:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4814</guid>
		<description>Oh, this is great! ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s so rich! Sometimes I like to comment here, before reading anything in the links: this is one of those times...

If I, a very poor person, had to move, as in HUD housing is VERY scarce here in SF--and the bugs are almost running wild, this is what I might have to do. This issue did come up and so I had it all thought already: here it is:

Let's assume too: The landlord had said "This apartment has been sprayed 3 times and it has no Bed bugs" since I had to move--I'd have to go anyway but I'd not take their word that the place had no bugs.  I'd also be skeptical about the spray history too. I'd not let on ... I've got to move in right?
 
a--I'd do my best to have all my Bed bug arsenal with me =$ 300 = min a studio.
b--I'd move in myself first only for as long as I could, say 2 weeks =min.
    So I'd also have to pay rent in two places for at least one month
c--I'd clean the center of the sleeping room see FAQS
d--I'd place heavy plastic leaving 2 feet leeway all around, secured to floor with
    two strips of Frost King carpet tape. I'd seal them down with good masking tape.
    Then I'd lay down a good goop of Vaseline in the center of the carpet tape 100%
e--I'd set up a tent, as Bed bug proof as possible with the two feet leeway.
f--I'd sleep there only, for those two weeks, + only after also using FWDE in all
    corners of room, including in crown molding + baseboards--and by front door.
g--Each morning (I'd) get out of tent warily, contact killer in hand--I'd spray any
     and all bugs I saw. I'd exit.
h--Repeat for two weeks: then I'd decide if I should sue them, move in or whatnot.

NOTES: 
* I'd prefer to be able to get the chance to do this for one full month.
* If the bugs are dying away ... I'd start moving my isolated stuff in, as I'd have
   no choice--I'd be now be financially quite strapped!
* I's save and log and take pics of the entire process
* I'd then check my lease and call 311 and get them to spray.
* By now ... I'd have a lot of clout in the sue should I choose that route.
* Id keep all my things isolated and be prepared for another month of this FAQS
* Each day I'd vacuum my heart out too!
* If needed--I'd steam the rugs!
* Total apx .extra cost 7-800.00
* Total lawsuit = at lest 5,000
*  I'd win the case and buy $1000 worth of new supplies and try to move again.

These are the times we live in, as NOBUGSONME points out!
But I'd also do other things too. To find out what they are Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ 
AÃ¢â‚¬â€read and grasp ALL the FAQS here  .. BÃ¢â‚¬â€search the site Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ see the vidios and the pics Ã¢â‚¬Â¦. Then C--come on in to the forums and read the moving FAQ! Yet again.

Yup, that's what I'd be stuck doing! But, even if you have bucks--a lot of this would be good to do anyway.

Now I'll read what nomo, and AT have to say and IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll get on all those great links too!

Loved the Blog
Fondly, 
Willow</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, this is great! ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s so rich! Sometimes I like to comment here, before reading anything in the links: this is one of those times&#8230;</p>
<p>If I, a very poor person, had to move, as in HUD housing is VERY scarce here in SF&#8211;and the bugs are almost running wild, this is what I might have to do. This issue did come up and so I had it all thought already: here it is:</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s assume too: The landlord had said &#8220;This apartment has been sprayed 3 times and it has no Bed bugs&#8221; since I had to move&#8211;I&#8217;d have to go anyway but I&#8217;d not take their word that the place had no bugs.  I&#8217;d also be skeptical about the spray history too. I&#8217;d not let on &#8230; I&#8217;ve got to move in right?</p>
<p>a&#8211;I&#8217;d do my best to have all my Bed bug arsenal with me =$ 300 = min a studio.<br />
b&#8211;I&#8217;d move in myself first only for as long as I could, say 2 weeks =min.<br />
    So I&#8217;d also have to pay rent in two places for at least one month<br />
c&#8211;I&#8217;d clean the center of the sleeping room see FAQS<br />
d&#8211;I&#8217;d place heavy plastic leaving 2 feet leeway all around, secured to floor with<br />
    two strips of Frost King carpet tape. I&#8217;d seal them down with good masking tape.<br />
    Then I&#8217;d lay down a good goop of Vaseline in the center of the carpet tape 100%<br />
e&#8211;I&#8217;d set up a tent, as Bed bug proof as possible with the two feet leeway.<br />
f&#8211;I&#8217;d sleep there only, for those two weeks, + only after also using FWDE in all<br />
    corners of room, including in crown molding + baseboards&#8211;and by front door.<br />
g&#8211;Each morning (I&#8217;d) get out of tent warily, contact killer in hand&#8211;I&#8217;d spray any<br />
     and all bugs I saw. I&#8217;d exit.<br />
h&#8211;Repeat for two weeks: then I&#8217;d decide if I should sue them, move in or whatnot.</p>
<p>NOTES:<br />
* I&#8217;d prefer to be able to get the chance to do this for one full month.<br />
* If the bugs are dying away &#8230; I&#8217;d start moving my isolated stuff in, as I&#8217;d have<br />
   no choice&#8211;I&#8217;d be now be financially quite strapped!<br />
* I&#8217;s save and log and take pics of the entire process<br />
* I&#8217;d then check my lease and call 311 and get them to spray.<br />
* By now &#8230; I&#8217;d have a lot of clout in the sue should I choose that route.<br />
* Id keep all my things isolated and be prepared for another month of this FAQS<br />
* Each day I&#8217;d vacuum my heart out too!<br />
* If needed&#8211;I&#8217;d steam the rugs!<br />
* Total apx .extra cost 7-800.00<br />
* Total lawsuit = at lest 5,000<br />
*  I&#8217;d win the case and buy $1000 worth of new supplies and try to move again.</p>
<p>These are the times we live in, as NOBUGSONME points out!<br />
But I&#8217;d also do other things too. To find out what they are Ã¢â‚¬Â¦<br />
AÃ¢â‚¬â€read and grasp ALL the FAQS here  .. BÃ¢â‚¬â€search the site Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ see the vidios and the pics Ã¢â‚¬Â¦. Then C&#8211;come on in to the forums and read the moving FAQ! Yet again.</p>
<p>Yup, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;d be stuck doing! But, even if you have bucks&#8211;a lot of this would be good to do anyway.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;ll read what nomo, and AT have to say and IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll get on all those great links too!</p>
<p>Loved the Blog<br />
Fondly,<br />
Willow</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4810</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 03:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4810</guid>
		<description>Hi Anonymous,

Good question.  You should speak with any bed bug dog professional at length before hiring him/her.  It is currently an unregulated industry, so find out where the dog was trained and by whom, ask about any tests that have been done on the dog (independently-run tests if possible), and ask about what the inspection entails (no pun intended) as well as precautions the tech takes to avoid spreading bed bugs.  I realize only the last question is relevant to your comment, but I wanted to remind folks about the necessity of finding out everything you can before hiring a bed bug dog (and the same holds true about PCOs).

Remember, though, a human inspector working without a dog could transmit bed bugs as easily.  They're more likely to travel in a trouser cuff or in a bag, than on a short-haired dog.  That's not to say it can't happen, but it's probably less likely than a human bringing them in.  (Probably more of a worry if the dog was in a very infested room --say one next door-- and then came directly into your home.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Anonymous,</p>
<p>Good question.  You should speak with any bed bug dog professional at length before hiring him/her.  It is currently an unregulated industry, so find out where the dog was trained and by whom, ask about any tests that have been done on the dog (independently-run tests if possible), and ask about what the inspection entails (no pun intended) as well as precautions the tech takes to avoid spreading bed bugs.  I realize only the last question is relevant to your comment, but I wanted to remind folks about the necessity of finding out everything you can before hiring a bed bug dog (and the same holds true about PCOs).</p>
<p>Remember, though, a human inspector working without a dog could transmit bed bugs as easily.  They&#8217;re more likely to travel in a trouser cuff or in a bag, than on a short-haired dog.  That&#8217;s not to say it can&#8217;t happen, but it&#8217;s probably less likely than a human bringing them in.  (Probably more of a worry if the dog was in a very infested room &#8211;say one next door&#8211; and then came directly into your home.)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4798</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 05:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4798</guid>
		<description>This is my question about bedbug dogs and their owners:  I assume that they actually run into places that are infested.  So, how do we know that the dogs/owners aren't carrying bugs everywhere they go?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my question about bedbug dogs and their owners:  I assume that they actually run into places that are infested.  So, how do we know that the dogs/owners aren&#8217;t carrying bugs everywhere they go?</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4745</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/07/24/bed-bugs-at-apartmenttherapy-redux/#comment-4745</guid>
		<description>Great post, Nomo!  Thanks for that!

My only question on reading the AT site was this:  were the bed bugs eradicated?

To spell it out more fully, were the bed bugs only in the one apartment and were they eradicated?

If they were only in THAT apartment, it is fully possible that the three treatments sufficed.  We also do not know how long ago they were treated.  If it was a while and the formerly "infested" roommate had no further trouble, then perhaps it is fine.

The problem is, NYC will soon have few buildings that have never had a bed bug infestation in any apartment.  That an apartment was once infested is not cause to avoid it forever (or soon the housing market will be very scarce!)  but I would certainly want to know more.  And I would not trust a landlord who lies about anything, but alas, this is the world we live in.

I hope that in future, bed bug dogs are certified and universally available, and that landlords who have had apartments treated can have them tested before being rented to the next party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Nomo!  Thanks for that!</p>
<p>My only question on reading the AT site was this:  were the bed bugs eradicated?</p>
<p>To spell it out more fully, were the bed bugs only in the one apartment and were they eradicated?</p>
<p>If they were only in THAT apartment, it is fully possible that the three treatments sufficed.  We also do not know how long ago they were treated.  If it was a while and the formerly &#8220;infested&#8221; roommate had no further trouble, then perhaps it is fine.</p>
<p>The problem is, NYC will soon have few buildings that have never had a bed bug infestation in any apartment.  That an apartment was once infested is not cause to avoid it forever (or soon the housing market will be very scarce!)  but I would certainly want to know more.  And I would not trust a landlord who lies about anything, but alas, this is the world we live in.</p>
<p>I hope that in future, bed bug dogs are certified and universally available, and that landlords who have had apartments treated can have them tested before being rented to the next party.</p>
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